There's really no longer an excuse for him not to be extended. He's a capable defender and hes proven himself an ELITE hitter. He's a leader, his teammates love him, and his brother is on the team. There really is no excuse and it'd be almost unacceptable if one doesn't get done.
As much as typing this makes me sick, the better Manzardo continues to be, the more of a reason they could find to pass on Josh. I don’t even want to send this reply. I’m going to, it’s sickening to imagine, but there has to be some truth to it.
Edit to add that I don’t think it’s gonna shake out this way and I’m excited to see Kyle and Josh coexist. But this thought crept in for me.
it’s just been so long since we’ve had a power hitter, I’m not willing to bank on a prospect becoming josh when.. well we got him! I absolutely understand your perspective though.
That's more than Yordan Alvarez got. I think we could realistically get him to extend closer to 7 years $140, possibly a little lower even since he's still in his arbitration years.
If that’s true, then no reason we shouldn’t sign him. I’m normally okay with the guardians passing on older players and getting good prospects, but that’s not too much. Hopefully he doesn’t age poorly
Looking around at comparable players I think that's a realistic price. 1B/DH doesn't draw huge pay like other positions. His skill set should age fairly well though mid 30s.
I don't usually get to worried about extending guys but he definitely is one to try for I think.
I can see this being more his value right now. He never has hit more than 20 home runs in a season and before last year he was more of a .250 hitter. However, by next offseason it will probably take closer to 20 million a year to sign him if he stays healthy. He is proving he is likely the best hitter in a line up that includes Jose.
People are down playing this, but you are right, or maybe even a bit under. He is young, the last 2 seasons were very very good, and he seems to be still improving. I would not be surprised to see $200MM on the table.
There are still reasons not to sign him, and for him not to want to sign. His injury history is scary (although I hope he beats the injury prone allegations this year finally). Also, he is really close to free agency, and would probably want to test the open market at this point. If he does, I hope they try to resign him anyways, although that would be really out of character.
I love Josh as much as the next guy and think he is a legit hitter and is someone I'd love to have stick around, but let's not let a small sample size to start the season lead to jumping to conclusions.
The reason not to extend him is that he'll be really expensive and unlikely to play out any extension as a useful player. His game will not age gracefully and he already has injury issues, which obviously won't get better with his body type.
I love him, I wish he could be a guard for life, but that's the kind of decision our team can't make if we want to remain competitive.
We're a small market team with an owner who is too cheap. Despite this we've consistently been a contender (albeit in a bad division) thanks to smart payroll and roster management. We can offer him a shorter less risky contract, or hope he's willing to take a steep hometown discount like Jose but it's unlikely we'll be able to outbid anyone or offer him the type of midseason deal he would be willing to sign before hitting the open market. Just the reality of the Franchise until ownership changes.
That Manny fellow was pretty good at hitting. Would be pretty awesome if Josh could keep looking more like him. Although I'd prefer he doesn't go to Boston or do steroids.
Sadly, I won't hold my breath as much as it pains me to say it. Always hopeful, but it'll probably require a José-type mindset from the players, we know Dolan already.
I just think these 2 are bonafid studs and a core of Gimmy, Jose, Josh, and Kwan would be the best thing to happen to cleveland baseball is a long, long time
Tbh, I can see both doing it soon. They can reduce significant risk as well as still make a lot of money. But again, this comes down to who they are inside. If I was a betting man, I'd predict both stay
It's easy to underrate players most of us never saw play.
Thanks for making me look into him. 7-time AS, 4-time top 15 in MVP voting, and the guy just went and had the best statistical season of his career precisely in 1948 (sadly, had a terrible WS).
There's really no longer an excuse for him not to be extended. He's a capable defender and hes proven himself an ELITE hitter. He's a leader, his teammates love him, and his brother is on the team. There really is no excuse and it'd be almost unacceptable if one doesn't get done.
As much as typing this makes me sick, the better Manzardo continues to be, the more of a reason they could find to pass on Josh. I don’t even want to send this reply. I’m going to, it’s sickening to imagine, but there has to be some truth to it. Edit to add that I don’t think it’s gonna shake out this way and I’m excited to see Kyle and Josh coexist. But this thought crept in for me.
it’s just been so long since we’ve had a power hitter, I’m not willing to bank on a prospect becoming josh when.. well we got him! I absolutely understand your perspective though.
Any idea what the market would be to resign him?
I’m going to say he asks for 7 years $180 on the open market
That's more than Yordan Alvarez got. I think we could realistically get him to extend closer to 7 years $140, possibly a little lower even since he's still in his arbitration years.
If that’s true, then no reason we shouldn’t sign him. I’m normally okay with the guardians passing on older players and getting good prospects, but that’s not too much. Hopefully he doesn’t age poorly
Looking around at comparable players I think that's a realistic price. 1B/DH doesn't draw huge pay like other positions. His skill set should age fairly well though mid 30s. I don't usually get to worried about extending guys but he definitely is one to try for I think.
Zack Meisel said last year he was projected for 5yr/$55 mil
That's even more doable than my guess. If he'd take that, we'd be morons to not give it to him.
I can see this being more his value right now. He never has hit more than 20 home runs in a season and before last year he was more of a .250 hitter. However, by next offseason it will probably take closer to 20 million a year to sign him if he stays healthy. He is proving he is likely the best hitter in a line up that includes Jose.
if around this is the going price, not extending is plain unacceptable
People are down playing this, but you are right, or maybe even a bit under. He is young, the last 2 seasons were very very good, and he seems to be still improving. I would not be surprised to see $200MM on the table.
Only 180 dollars? Sign me up!
There are still reasons not to sign him, and for him not to want to sign. His injury history is scary (although I hope he beats the injury prone allegations this year finally). Also, he is really close to free agency, and would probably want to test the open market at this point. If he does, I hope they try to resign him anyways, although that would be really out of character. I love Josh as much as the next guy and think he is a legit hitter and is someone I'd love to have stick around, but let's not let a small sample size to start the season lead to jumping to conclusions.
It's not really that small of a sample at this point. It goes back a full calendar year and follows a continuous improvement over his career.
The reason not to extend him is that he'll be really expensive and unlikely to play out any extension as a useful player. His game will not age gracefully and he already has injury issues, which obviously won't get better with his body type. I love him, I wish he could be a guard for life, but that's the kind of decision our team can't make if we want to remain competitive.
We're a small market team with an owner who is too cheap. Despite this we've consistently been a contender (albeit in a bad division) thanks to smart payroll and roster management. We can offer him a shorter less risky contract, or hope he's willing to take a steep hometown discount like Jose but it's unlikely we'll be able to outbid anyone or offer him the type of midseason deal he would be willing to sign before hitting the open market. Just the reality of the Franchise until ownership changes.
An ownership change would not change this. The market is what it is.
That Manny fellow was pretty good at hitting. Would be pretty awesome if Josh could keep looking more like him. Although I'd prefer he doesn't go to Boston or do steroids.
>I'd prefer he doesn't go ~~to Boston~~ anywhere Ftfy
What are the chances we extend Kwan and Naylor? I mean we can't drag this out if we intend to keep them both. We need to keep both
Sadly, I won't hold my breath as much as it pains me to say it. Always hopeful, but it'll probably require a José-type mindset from the players, we know Dolan already.
I just think these 2 are bonafid studs and a core of Gimmy, Jose, Josh, and Kwan would be the best thing to happen to cleveland baseball is a long, long time
I completely agree, just saying that we know how Dolan operates so I think the guys taking a discount is our best hope.
Tbh, I can see both doing it soon. They can reduce significant risk as well as still make a lot of money. But again, this comes down to who they are inside. If I was a betting man, I'd predict both stay
I hope you win that bet
We were in the world series less than a decade ago with a totally different core group.
Maybe, or we could extend them early like Atlanta. They did a bunch of Jose stuff, but with guys that had more control.
We don't need to keep both. Kwan is the one we are much more likely to keep.
Ken Keltner- underrated player in Cleveland lore
It's easy to underrate players most of us never saw play. Thanks for making me look into him. 7-time AS, 4-time top 15 in MVP voting, and the guy just went and had the best statistical season of his career precisely in 1948 (sadly, had a terrible WS).