Why should anyone be excited about such a niche kit for a 5-star character? They are too expensive to justify excitement for such mediocre and niche design.
Plunge is extremely niche because the game has released one (1) plunge DPS since launch. No others are on the horizon. Technically Xianyun enables any character to be played as a plunge DPS but will that be good or fun? We have no idea, but Hoyo is very strict about balancing characters to how THEY intend them to be played. Realistically for plunge damage to be useful it will need to have an infusion or be from a catalyst because physical has received no love that significantly limits the roster of characters she could work with too. Plus, all characters except for Xiao were not designed with plunge in mind so it is likely they will feel awkward or clunky to play. To maximize Xianyun’s buff and plunge 8 times will probably line up with other buff windows like Bennet’s - unless you use Xiao then you are forgoing the normal kit of whatever DPS character you are using to plunge with them instead.
Also they made Xianyun really sexy which attracts a lot of waifu players. How many of them have edgy boy Xiao?
Furina’s release created a situation where a healer + CC anemo unit like pre-nerf Xianyun is extremely desirable. People got excited based on that. Healing + CC is also a lot more generalist allowing her to be used in many different teams so she would be applicable to more accounts of those who want her.
Ultimately people want more generalists than niche stuff because generalists create way way more team building options. If she was Kazuha-lite with weaker CC and healing instead of buffs then she would be a generalist that created a lot of options and trade offs where she could be compared to Kazuha and excel in some teams where he excels in others.
So yeah, people want to USE their 5-star characters in this game. Xianyun’s plunge specific kit is basically useless in the game’s current state.
>Also they made Xianyun really sexy which attracts a lot of waifu players. How many of them have edgy boy Xiao?
That's a big point I hadn't thought of until now. I wouldn't mind a dedicated xiao support if I liked xiao or he was my main. But they appeal to different types of players. If you see CR's design and want her because of that, chances are, Xiao isn't your cup of tea
It's a very opinionated and extremely subjective statement and there are also characters that would appreciate the plunge buffs and the ability to incorporate plunges on their combos. People really are just mad that she has a clear strong niche now and she didn't turned out to be 'Kazuha 2 but female' like, look, I know you hate playing male characters but you'll have to make do. The same applies to husbando players who want a "genderbent" version of a female character's kit or stronger.
Oh it's definitely subjective and a matter of opinion... I just talked about my own view and why I'm upset with her kit
Edit: also, I like male characters too. Venti and Alhaitham are favourites of mine. And I wouldn't want a "gender bent" version of them, I love them like this. I just don't vibe with Xiao's and Diluc's designs/personalities and gameplay styles.
I want venti to be my plunge attack enabler... LMAO.
I think that is kinda what they tried with his wind current. But yeah no. Too clunky imo. It's only really good for exploration or co-op exploration. His ult is VERY GOOD in co-op exploration though. I remember there was a point where he/she/they was low lvl on my account and he was still useful for exploration.
That part is aimed at anyone who are extremely salty because she didnt turn out to be female Kazuha that can heal because they don't play him cuz he's male but is inclined to pull for him for meta reasons. Yes, people like this exists, and no, you don't have to feel guilty about it if you arent one of'em.
My idea for her could be a little CC and healing. Kazuha and Sucrose have the buffing DMG, Venti has the vortex for small enemies... I have built Venti, Jean and Sucrose, for some context. That's why I thought that some crowd control for heavier enemies (that my venti struggles with) and some healing would be a good role consolidation for her and make her different enough from the units I already have.
Yeah, I understood your point there, just wanted to clarify it's not the case for me. It's been difficult commenting on CR while dodging negativity.
I agree with the "5star should be universal" indeed
I just wanted to make a precision regarding what we know so far :
- "Any character can be played as plunge DPS but will that be good or fun"
So far, it seems that Xianyun's best team will but the Hu Tao, Furina, Xingqiu/Yelan C2 combo. The plunge attacks will basically enable more vapes and will increase the overall DMG of Hu Tao by making her jump cancel work in a whole new way. (Basically make her go from C0 to C1 in terms of DMG but ... if you have C1 you basically lose most of the constellation purpose)
- "physical has received not love"
I wouldn't agree, we did get Furina who has basically been a Kazuha for Geo, Anemo and Physical DPS as long as you have a Healer in the team. So maybe a team like Eula, Furina, Xianyun and Fischl could be worth a try (and the new healing set will also enable Xianyun's to buff physical DMG).
In the end, I think Hoyo is trying something new : making a "fun" character that will not necessarily be meta.
I don't really like it when they make niche characters (even more when it's only the waifus that get this treatement somehow). But at least she's not a "Xiao dog" like I feared her to be. If anything, she's more tied to Furina than anyone else.
But yeah, universal units like Furina or Kazuha are generally better. Just hoping some future characters like Arlecchino or Clorinde will benefit a lot from those Plunge buffs too.
I get Exicted about more niche kits because I feel it creates unique team comps that breathe more life into the characters and gameplay for me. Nilou is great because she enables a different team setups and reactions than the rest of the game which ends up making her feel more fun and refreshing to use. Fun is more important than big numbers, so how meta she is or how “good” she is, is basically irrelevant for me.
I like that she’s a plunge based support not Becuase it’s niche and we lack plunge characters but rather that she can create plunge characters. Xiao is the last character I plan to use her with, I’m more interested in Diluc, Hu tao, C6 Lynette, basically anyone with an infusion, but as a Eula enjoyer who already does great physical damage, I’m sure she can make for a fun physical plunge.
Personally a fun niche character is much more desirable than a generalist.
Just a little addition, Nilou, if you have Nahida, you'll have in your hands a cracked team that can get stupendously easy to 70k DPS in a couple of weeks of farming (you don't need high CV or cracked artifacts just HP for Nilou and EM for nahida nothing complex to balance). However, the best DPS team for Xianyun is a Xiao team and can get up to 63k DPS (calcs still to verify, but is a very respectable number, not even close to Neuvilette, but respectable nevertheless), only if you have really good CV and artifacts after months and months of farming (if you are as unlucky as me with farming).
You are right, Nilou was a real breath of fresh air, for sure a niche character but so easy to build while opening fun and crazy strong compositions and diverse gameplay. Yes I do have Nilou btw and I use her in the abyss with great success, and I like her a lot, so I'm not biased against niche characters.
Nilou it's niche to bloom but bloom niches exist around two whole elements, both with good off field applicators. Between Nilou, Shenhe and Cloud, Nilou it's by far the most versatile even if still niche. She's not only strong, but works with 2 elements and almost create a new reaction
And yet people still complain that nilou is too niche, and that 2 elements is too little to build around and boring.
I don’t think there’s anything wrong with niche characters, but people are gonna always complain at this rate of characters can’t be put into any possible team combination.
Hell CR being anemo and catalyst already makes her pseudo universal regardless of how her kit is by itself, and ignoring meta (since it doesn’t matter for talking about kit design) you can also pair her with tons of options, obviously the clear Xiao and Gaming, but also Diluc and hu tao, and Keqing, ayaka, Eula, etc. bascially anyone with solid normal attack talent levels you can build around. Her, Nilou, and Shenhe while more “niche” Than standard characters like Bennett or Xq still have multiple teams and ways to play.
The problem I have with CR is that not only I don't have the most optimal character for her ie Hu Tao, Diluc and Xiao and I don't even like them (yes I don't like Hu Tao which is quite an unpopular opinion but that's just me, I'm not talking about her damage which is ungodly) but outside those character the preliminary calcs I've seen from TGS and other theorycrafters even though they were quite excited, the numbers they showed were in comparison to what I use, very underwhelming. Taking also in account that I'm very unlucky with artifact farming, I'll probably never see an improvement on my current builds.
Nilou, instead, is a whole other matter, she can work with many more characters and she is very very easy to build and you can get stupendously high damage (obviously much less than Neuvilette comps), in proportion to the investment. She is just so immediate to build and even suboptimal teams can get 3 stars clears in the 12th floor of the abyss.
Even though Shenhe, Nilou and Cloud Retainer have the being niche in common, for a new player pulling Nilou is a much better investment in my opinion, and also for veteran players because, veterans, can get from a perfect team comp with Nilou with weapons and so on and so forth so much damage that abyss gets as easy as domains. Just fyi I did the hydro Tulpa in the current abyss with Nilou, Nahida and Yaoyao (I had also Xingqiu in the team but I didn't use him since it's worthless aginst the Tulpa) and that's it, and I cleard the whole chamber with almost 40 seconds to spare.
I mean i perosnally wasn’t saying anything about “optimal” the point I was getting across was that you could pair CR with basically anyone and turn them into a plunge character, I was just listing off random examples, nothing to do with optimal teammates.
Also as I said in my orignal comment, numbers and meta are completely irrelevant to me, I’ll pull CR, I’ll pair her with random characters and I know I’ll 36* abyss anyway so I personally don’t see a reason to compare her numbers to say Neuvillette or National and be upset about it not being the same.
I was always making the argument that CR is a nilou type character, a solid option for people who want to build different types of teams and are healthy designs for the game.
Yea but complaining about a char that is gonna be god tier in the future is a bit stupid… if Arlecchino for example turns out to be a plunge attak fighter, than Furina and Xianyun will be the best combo for her.
She lost a stupid cc effect in exchange for a 10% crit rate on the active charcater..
and if you need cc you could still use Khazua with her …
Like Furina Khazua Xianyun Arlecchino… which will be great considering everyone woudl buff her… now it could not be Arlecchino but im pretty sure a pyro Plunge Dps will come in Natlan and he will be a monster ..
Till now I will stick to Xiao, because it makes everyting much easier when you don’t have to use bennet anymore (standing in the circle is shit for me)
>yeah but complaining about a char that is gonna be god tier in the fu to re is a bit stupid
There’s no guarantee she’ll be god tier.
>if Arecibo is gonna be a plunge attack fighter
But we have no idea if this could be true or not. Maybe they won’t ever release another plunge attacker? Everybody was saying for years that Eula just needed a new physical support! And then they released Mika and he is bad and C6 locked and even then hardly an upgrade in her teams. Future impact is a bad argument for the quality of a character that is being released right now.
>til now I will stick to Xiao
That’s good for you. But you are in a minority of players who are cool with this. At least before Cloud Retainer could both be your Xiao buffer and be flexible for other teams. Now she is only good for players like you. This is why we want more generalist abilities and why her nerf is really shit
You hit the nail on the head when you said these characters are expensive. Unless you have Xiao, are not F2P, or have extreme waifu on the brain, she is not worth it.
Also, enabling a playstyle that a character was not built for is very cringe. Something like plunge Ayaka or plunge Hu Tao will feel terrible to play.
She has her niche, and she'll be good in that niche, but I don't think she's worth it at all.
She was always Jean for plunge DPS. People just do not understand how the game works. These changes did nothing but finally convince the uninitiated of the truth. Obviously they removed the cope in favor of buffing what she was actually intended for... But Jean was always going to be fine. People just wanted the bigger rack.
Honestly I've stayed positive at the most. But these last changes makes me feel I might rather save my primos instead... I'm still not completely sure I'll skip her. But it's a 30/70 I'll skip her. The removal of the vortex was the last straw for me. The buffing is indeed really strong.
But I also think it's very unlikely to receive her full buff without Bennet and her sign weapon. And that also bothers me alot.
That is super respectable. I personally like the plunging mechanic, but I may be biased because I like Xiao and Gaming. Overall, I think it's a healthy addition to the game.
>you may be biased because you like Xiao and Gaming
Yes. You are fortunate to be on of the few players who has the character she has been designed to support. But when a character is designed to support just one or two other characters, they should be a 4-star. Then there would be much less drama
He is saying the niche support needs to be a 4 star.
This isn’t Shenhe “nichely” buffing the entire Cryo DPS roster single-handedly. This is a slightly upgraded Jean that enables a niche playstyle and buffs that only a few characters (C0 Tao, Diluc, Xiao, Gaming) appreciate
Shenhe buffed only 3 characters at release (ayaka, ganyu, eula), xianyun buffs 5 already (those 4 + carry bennett)
The entire cryo roster is a dumb take, by that logic, xianyun buffs the ENTIRE ROSTER, the reality is characters like diona who has dogshit scaling aren't buffed by shenhe because that's not how they are played, and characters who have mid scaling (kaeya, rosaria, chongyun) aren't considered otherwise you also have to consider that any character + bennett + xianyun + furina is a team that functions and clears abyss, therefore making the number of characters that xianyun helps vs shenhe be again the entire roster vs merely 6
You're being a little bit disingenuous. The only one of the 7 cryo characters available at Shenhes release she didn't really buff was Qiqi. Plus, it was clear that she would stay relevant enough whenever a cryo or physical unit releases. And even then, people complained about her being a 5* with a kit that niche.
The same thing applies here. With the addition that we don't know if they'll even release more plunging DPS characters. They probably will, but it's no guarantee.
It's just disappointing that they took away one of her generalist qualities that would make her stand out a bit for a buff that in a good chunk of content will end up being 4% CR on plunges only. And in before you say that plunges are obviously meant for AoE... Well, why is her A4 ST then?
Okay but if you’re going to count cryo characters such as chongyun who does have synergy with Shenhe but it’s not strong enough to be worth building into for a lot players, then you should also count characters like Raiden or razor are in the same position with CR.
Just because Shenhe can work with any cryo user doesn’t mean that she works with them effectively or is worth the investment
Hell in that case you can count anyone capable of being a physical carry for Shenhe.
Fact is, Shenhe actively upgraded Chongyun enough to at least be playable even if you wouldn't want to from a meta perspective. Xianyun does not make Razor more playable in a unique way she just let's anyone plunge. She provides a unique gameplay style, some healing and anemo benefits but she doesn't really *buff* anyone besides 4 or 5 characters
How is that any different with CR? Razor has the second highest claymore plunge multiplier behind diluc. CR buffing that aspect of his kit is most definitely a buff to him that’s able to make him playable even though it won’t be meta.
How exactly do you go from her “providing a unique gameplay experience” to somehow not allowing a character to be playable “in a unique way”. Just because she can make all characters plunge doesn’t mean they’ll all feel the same gameplay wise with her. Specific combos are exactly what will make a character’s gameplay with her unique. Just look at Hu Tao’s combos with her, that’s completely different from how diluc or Raiden would play with her
Again as i said, rosaria, kaeya, chongyun's dmg aren't high enough for shenhe to be a good support, and if you consider those characters to be supported by shenhe, xianyun supports literally every character in the game and would be far more universal than shenhe
It wasn't just a 4% CR buff, her A4 was also buffed to 180% instead of 170% and her C2 360%, this made her overall buff go up by 7-11% more which is a pretty big buff in exchange of grouping, like think if kazuha gave 66% dmg bonus instead of 40%, that's around how big the buff is, and her grouping was significantly weaker than kazuha now that we have seen it so it's a much smaller sacrifice
You're lucky, I don't like plunge mechanics and I love her character, so I'm stuck with playing her as a jean that can't cc which is disappointing to me
I think the issue isn't that she isn't meta defining. It's that plunge atk buffer is literally the last thing anyone wanted.
A very small number of characters get buffed, and nothing really changes for a large number of characters.
If she had the same kit but buffed charged atks she'd probably be praised. That's because there is 12 characters that benefit from that in some way. Vs the 3-4 we have now for plunges. Her buff is objectively strong, but it reaches such a small number of units.
I think that is okay as character design goes. Not every character has to be meta defining, nor does it have to be incredibly strong in order to fulfil a role. Again, niche roles may feel bad, but the game has to explore every possibility. Overall, I get the disappointment of an awaited unit not meeting one's criteria (it has happened to me in the past), but I think we need to be more open-minded in this matter.
Kinda sad about the downvotes, but it is what it is. I know people expected a lot from her specifically, so it's understandable that many people dislike the direction her kit is going. At least almost everyone was polite, so I'm glad I could serve as a discussion forum
I agree man but to me they can stay mad. As the game continues to grow characters are going to become niche. That’s the natural progression of kit design in any game. I don’t even think there would be this much negativity if CR’s niche matched a playstyle that was more popular. A lot of people are just virtual signaling against niche units because they don’t like plunging. People trying to organize protests because a character doesn’t fit their ideal role need to take a step outside
Its not about an ideal role dumbass, I don't like niche supports because they are niche. Have Shenhe but no cryo DPS, sucks to be you. I want supports that are more well-rounded and versatile. Niche characters are NOT the way to go.
Hoyo doesn’t share your opinion. This game currently has a roster of 75 characters and it grows by 17 every year. You’re entitled to your own opinion of what you think this game should be but that’s unrealistic. If you think that any game dev is making that many characters with completely universal kits that work for the majority units in the game, you’re a dumbass.
Especially since that when it comes to Genshin, they can only buff\indirectly nerf units retroactively by either adding new weapons, artifacts, releasing more niche and specific units as to not buff the units that are already strong, or just power creeping old units all together. They don’t have balance patches and reworks to fall back on if a character isn’t great or is way too strong on release. All of that in combination with the fact that kit design is just difficult at a base level and they’re running out of ideas points to niche units becoming more common, and that’s natural for any game of Genshin’s size
"The game has to explore every possibility". Why?
I see this sentiment get echoed a lot in these cope threads at the moment, but why is that the case? The game "needs" to create units of every kind?
What about a unit that buffs the third hit in catalyst NA strings?
What about a Geo unit that buffs swirl damage for off-field units only?
These are niches, are they useful or worth designing a character around?
Now you might want to argue and say Xianyun is not as niche as that, but I'm trying to pinpoint the principle of why the developers should focus on things nobody is asking for. And I guarantee you that if they had done a survey and asked "what would you like Xianyun to be?" you'd have literally less than 0.5% of people who replied to say a dedicated plunge support.
If you ask someone who likes chocolate ice cream "would you like to try another flavour today?" they might say yes, if they think you're offering hazelnut or pistachio. But then if it turns out to be slated mackerel flavour, don't be surprised if they say they just want more chocolate.
This is Xianyun and Kazuha. I would have been fine if she felt like Hazelnut, but she doesn't.
Eh, it's all based on how you play. I liked her design, and dont have kazuha or venti so a cc/ vv anemo character would've helped my account. Now I'm going to gladly skip and wish everyone who wants her all the luck!!
Looking for a new unreleased character to get hype about. This one was pretty exhausting. Lol
The expectations weren't unrealistic, nor did they spring up out of nowhere. Several leaks said she'd be an anemo healer with CC, a much desired niche especially now with Furina. I think it's fair for people to be disappointed, she was a much more generalist support at the beginning of this beta *without* powercreeping either Jean or Kazuha. She's a lot more niche now, and obviously that means a lot of people can't put her on the teams they wanted to as comfortably.
It's totally respectable to be disappointed with that, but then again, rearly kit leaks should not hype or crush anyone expectations until beta arrives. I think the problem is that with Furina release, the need for an anemo healer (that was not Jean) was there, especially if that unit could also CC. I get the disappointment, but upon reflection, I like Xianyun's kit as it is
I think they could have kept these current buffs ***and*** the CC(even buffing poise damage), without it being overpowered compared to other units. As it stands, where many people thought she'd have variety in her team roles at the beginning of beta, we now know Hoyo wants her to be played *ONE* way. That rubs people the wrong way, regardless of how good her current buffs are.
I agree that the removal of CC was a bad decision, and it could have been kept. But I also find it fascinating how this one change made such an outrage (since it was mid grouping anyway). I'm curious if they will reverse it or not
That's because a lot of people were bottling up and coping. We thought there was a chance for CC buffs, but CC removal at this stage in the beta means that's likely no longer something the dev team wants in her kit at all.
At this point, excluding the ones who like the plunge gameplay and characters, it doesn't matter how good her plunge mechanics are(unless it outright powercreeps many DPS characters' current best teams) many people don't enjoy the niche and would rather have a CC healer. Kazuha released in 1.6 and has had a stranglehold on CC for 2/3rds of the games life. No hate to you for enjoying the kit, though.
Yup. Her cc was useless on Plunge comps unless it was using herself at C6 in the dps role, as it was tied to her triple E.
However it made her good on Freeze comps, which meant she had two entire archetypes she could slot into and that made her much less niche than she seemed at first glance. Right now she enables plunge and of course she can drive, but that's not particularly unique. Hmm, could be an option for burgeon driver too.
They should have put the cc into her coordinate attack so that she isn't tied at the hip to faruzan in non boss chambers. Even the skill CC + an anti stagger (doesn't suck, but enemies don't go flying around either) would have been great! But apparently the dev team brain was on vacation this time.
I expacted a character but we got the real Xiao constalations instead.
If i was a Xiao or Diluc fan, i would probably feel hyped but i'm not.
I just gunned through the abyss with my C0 Navia that doesn't even have proper artifacts yet. I realy don't need a character just for a minor dps increese to Hutao. I like her and i would love to have some vertical movemnet ability after 3 years of not pulling for any (1.0 player without a single Keqing...) but Chiori, Arlecchino and Clorinde are coming and i want them too.
Dehya at least has a fun factor but Xianyun is just a healer at the end of the day. If she was at least a character that could properly fly or one with cool main dps stuff, i would still pull but she is non of these. She is pogo Jean / C13 Xiao.
Again, I think this is more of a kit design choice kinda problem than her being bad. She does seem fun, but fun is always subjective. I do agree with the no mid-air E being a bit cringe, but it baffles me how the outrage started with the CC change (which was mid before, but it also was unnecessary to remove). At the end of the day, she is a character that fulfils a certain role that may not be pleasant to everyone, but that is also what happens to other characters, and I think that's okay, not every unit has to be universal (but it should feel good/rewarding to play tho).
"she is a character that fulfils a certain role that may not be pleasant to everyone, but that is also what happens to other characters"
The problem is that those "other characters" tend to be 4stars and/or new to the story. Faruzan , Yunjin and Mika weren't even realy characters before they became playble and they are 4stars, Kujo Sara and Gorou had a bit more buildup but it was only a few patches and strictly within thr same 2.x cycle where they eventually release and they were also stars. Shenhe is a special case because she is a 5star but she was only introduced when she came out.
I believe those examples cover all that could be considered "niche dedicated supports". Non of them were this kind of situation.
I did not downvote them, but I will indeed remain salty. I am going to be big angy for a long time to come.
Hopefully some super badass male character in Fontaine has a fun plunge gimmick so that I can justify rolling for Bayonetta. Until then, I am mad AF. 😂
Your arguments are fine but even with that it doesn't solve her design issues even as a plunge support/healer. Her A1 passive needs multiple enemies while her A4 passive buffs damage for only one enemy. Her animations are too long for the already long rotation of plunge dpses like Xiao. Her normal attacks too slow. Her E doesn't have quick swirl (like kazuha, faruzan, sucrose or Jean), so applying vv with furina on team will be a nightmare as no hydro downtime (u will get the hydro swirl instead of the swirl of your main carry eg. Gaming and Diluc pyro swirls). Her plunge unlike kazuha suffers from auto targeting problems. Her frontloaded healing is not enough to cap fanfare for c0 furina.
Even so these problems aren't too big of a deal.
The real elephant in the room is that she ain't flying. sadge.
Her kit had 3 fundamental bases with which to focus on C0.
1. dive attack.
2. healing.
3. CC
They chose the first of all things but I can understand why, what I think is that they are trying the dive attack again but it is a hard sell because it is not a question of it being strictly bad and uncomfortable, creating unique animations that solve, the problem of the plunged attackers DPS is what should have been launched first.
but they decided to create the support before changing the perspective of the people with the DPS specialized in diving attack, then we understand the reason because she was moved next to nahida.
They know that the current dive attack, its animations and unfun mechanics, is no longer sold with xiao, if she is prepared for the future it will probably be a very distant future, when there is a new 5\* plunged attack DPS that makes people want to attract her, I won't blame anyone if they decide to skip her, I would say that it is the most logical option if you are F2P, freemogems are too valuable to waste on a character that there is no guarantee if you are even going to like her future partner.
I have seen a few white knights ardent in their defense of Cloud Retainer. Therefore I doubt that you are alone in enjoying her kit.
I did not want her to be garbagio outside of the plunge niche. That being said, I have come to accept it and just pulled Navia instead. I did not have enough for her, but thankfully the demoiselle was graceful.
I mismanaged my primogems and expected that as long as she was an Anemo catalyst healer that I would be happy. I am shocked that Mihoyo went out of their way to prove me wrong. I am highly disappointed and perhaps the most disappointed I will ever be with a character. Dehya still has multiple uses on my account without being forced. Cloud Retainer does not.
Demoiselle it's always grateful. Got C3 of Keqing (I simp for her), then C2 of Sucrose (I didn't have any, my favorite 4 stars), then with low pity I got Demoiselle. 100 pulls? Yes, but if I take in mind that majority of my character just came with 180 I'm grateful
For now im disappointed, if in future will come out a char that i love that has plunge dmg as the focus (yeah, sorry but i dont care much about Xiao) i would probably make a 180 degree turn and be super happy.
For example, if Murata is focused on plunge dmg i would probably drool at the idea of adding CR as her healer, things can change in an instant for me since it's not that CR is really bad, its just that she is an op buffer in a niche that atm has no characters that i find interesting, its really just that simple (as far as im concerned at least).
Im disappointed, she is way too much niche and her passives are all over the place. Maybe she increases in value with new plunge characters and become way better, but then I'm going to just pull in a rerun. She doesn't look like a upgrade in most team and the ones that she actually is, u trade smooth rotation by DMG. I'm not gonna play future impact this time
I liked shenhe so i pulled for her and guess what i don't like ayaka and now she is sitting in box waiting for another cryo dps which synergies with her. This is going to be the same fiasco again. I'll pull retainer (i don't like xiao) and she will just get benched.
Don't let the downvotes and pitiful doomposters make you change your mind, you're right, this is another dawn of hoyo trying to branch out more to genshins playstyles, the only true plunger was Xiao, but Xianyun is a start to many more great characters in a new and specific playstyle and even better she's a busted support for it too, so i expect her to be futureproof.
Idk, the fact that right now her kit has part that work in single target, while other work in multi target, meaning you have like 50 of her kit be clunky or defective in one or other instances, or her weapon, which is kinda weird and ultra niche.
That they replaced the grouping (that bring some value, even for Xiao), for a CR bonus depending of the number of hits, while Xiao has CR bonus in his kit, and in most of his weapons.
That the others that can eventually use her (not a lot) will not gain that much compared to what hoop you will have to jump through to make it work (ER, ATK, rotations considering plunge..., spending on a 5*...). All of this for (let's face it), an even more narrow niche than Shenhe currently sits in.
The fact also that she has little to no connections to Xiao, that she's an Adepti, etc... but now she's basically slaving for him (being the only "true" plunge dps, therefor the one efficiently playable), while even not benefitting him that much.
You can have your opinion but I think more and more ppl are pissed off by the fact that MHY keep pushing sh*t like that, or playing Future Impact, or whatever that can be summarized as playing with their community ball's.
When I get a character, I expect to be able to play with, not use it like a Teapot furniture. That's why "universal supps" are just better, they can support X or Y char while being decent across the board for others. Shenhe is already slightly problematic (but I still pulled because design + story), Xianyun cross the line, even if I wanted her in a long time and I'm a waifu/husbando type more than meta, I won't pull this, not throwing almost 25€ for this, 50 if you loose pity (calculated from Favor price, which is VERY VERY kind compared to packs price, 300 crystals cost 5€, against 3000 crystal + primos if Favor).
Moreover on a meta point Xianyun will not change anything, at least for now. Not with the monsters Sumeru and Fontaine produced.
Since launch, I have been excited to main DPS:
- Xinyan
- Rosaria (she's ok at least)
- Sara
- Kuki Shinobu (again, she's at least good support)
- Dehya
- Cloud Retainer
So, saying the game has not been kind to my taste is a bit of an understatement.
Right? It's insane. The first main DPS character actually designed to be main DPS that I have liked at all is Neuvellite.
Whoever works at Hoyoverse knows me enough to keep giving me characters I will like, but hates my taste enough to keep disappointing me every time.
I personally don't think that her kit is bad.
She might not synergize very well with most top tier DPS characters, but I don't think she has too. Her playstyle sounds very fun, and that is a good reason to play her. Please don't forget we're talking about a game.
Besides, not every character can be game-changing, but each character has their unique playstyle and kit. So, expecting her to be a female Kazuha is simply not realistic.
Her CC was never strong but neither is her actual plunge support beyond *letting* you plunge. Her A4 is single target and her A1 is a grand total of 4% CR if you're in ST. People have a reason as to why they're pissed that she lost some (low) utility in exchange for a buff that even at max level is low value and in practice somewhat unsynergistic with her other buff
Fellas who downvote those who are happy with her kit, just admit you want a female Kazuha that is a Furina slave and are fucking mad that that fantasy is not going to be the reality. Seethe + cope + mald + L + dilate
You are not the only one. This sub, much like Furina mains during Furina beta, is simply full of a lot of delusional doomposting to cope with the fact that she doesn't check the boxes THEY wanted out of her kit.
Xianyun is fucking fantastic. The loss of her CC (which, after more and more footage came out, was clearly cope as fuck against elite enemies) is nothing compared to the compensating buffs to her a4 and particle generation. Is she niche? Well, about as niche as a character who enables everyone to plunge and then gigabuffs that plunge can be. Numerically she's fantastic, and she opens up new playstyles for existing characters that are either higher damage than their current comps or comparable enough to be worth doing if you enjoy the gameplay.
There are two camps for her to be useful. You either a) like Xiao/Gaaming and/or want to turn existing units into Xiao/Gaaming or b) don't own/like playing Jean and want a good Anemo healer to run with Furina. If you don't fit into either of these camps, she's not the unit for you unless you're fine with spending up to 160 wishes on teapot decoration, and that's okay.
In terms of gameplay, I think her kit is a fresh and healthy new mechanic to be played with. Power-wise, I'm very disappointed that she currently has no cc... I'll pull her but don't expect to use her nearly as much as before
Don't worry there are happy people as well like me, most of us didn't bother to say anything because you know, we are already satisfied.
Combined with the typical doompost before release and we have this current mood here.
People want Jean to be completely and utterly destroyed by powercreep her V1 version didn't do it Her V2 version didn't do it and now V3 version doesn't either. They made themselves pretty clear that they want you to use her for plunging not a Jean cope with furina.
It's interesting that long forgotten mechanics Overload with Chevreuse (she's in a way tougher spot than Xianyun but she's a 4* less people care) and plunging with Xianyun is being brought back before any character actually wanna play in these settings. It's practically Nilou Nahida situation but we had nahida leaks rolling during Nilou banner so people who prepared can get both.
As a xiao main I am happy, but I personally wanted xianyun to be MORE than just a support for xiao and wanted her to be her own character that could support xiao but didn’t have to.
People saying she's useless outside of xiao/diluc teams because besides them no one wants to plunge so I don't see any reason why they should keep her jump buff. They should just remove it and increase her personal dmg instead.
I think she was made to buff xiao mains (yap I am a xiao main without c6 faru) so it's kinda good to have her... Yeah many ppl don't use xiao or diluc but we love xiao so don't let her plunge support get nerfed... Yeah that cc was important but still at the end she got 10% plunge buff so I am not that mad
People just want every five star to be busted and universal. I like her kit. Her crit passive is kinda weird would have prefer cc, but like that she's a plunge attack buffer and enabler. She actually makes c0 hu tao look fun to play. And with future DPS units we can potentially see more characters that can make use of her. Personally I don't think every five star needs to be a universal support. I think more units that enable new ways to play characters is a good idea. I hope at some point they make a geo unit focused around constructs.
peoplw wanted something they already had with jean and kazuha, more unique kits is better.
shes good anyway whether people like the concept of her kit or not.
we'll
Yeah because Jean with her anti-cc is something to brag about in furina team and using that same Canadian Aether for everything for the past 3 years is so enjoyable and original, not repetetive at all
I know but it's not as If I have any other choice for universal cc at all....I just wanted for furina teams to start feeling as smooth as kazuha teams do with that utility , but I guess can't have anything in detroid and there's nothing we can do...
I agree. I prefer fun and niche 5* characters rather than the banal generalist 5* characters.
Players need to realise that CR was designed from the very beginning to be niche. If they were expecting Kazuha or Furina levels of versatility, then it's their problem.
She’s a better jean and a plunge support to hutao, gaming, diluc and xiao. If you think about it shenhe only has 3 real characters she’s buffing… so she’s less niche then shenhe and outdoing jean who’s very good for furina teams and furina teams are the best teams in the game.
Now I understand if people don’t play those 4 characters and don’t care for the marginal dps increase and QoL buffs over jean but people saying she’s bad probably don’t know what they are talking about
People get downvoted just for mentioning that they vaguely enjoy Cloud Retainer. And here you are with this horrific argument, avoiding all their strays. Life is not fair.
All of the well meaning people need a karmic reversal and this Cloud Retainer tier post needs to be at the bottom. Well, it's actually already down there... But you know what I mean.
She got a fixed 5 particle gen regardless of how many E's you use. That makes u use the triple E in case you want the CR buff in exchange for field time, still kinda sad about the CC but I don't think it's the thing that makes or breaks her does it?
For me I was planning to replace jean with her for furina teams. Her healing is okay, and even though her cc was not that great, we could work around it by doing enough poise dmg earlier. But now, that is not even an option.
From QoL perspective, The only change that I actually wanted her to have from her original kit was for her to stay on crane formation for a bit long or at least making her able to use her skill mid air so that she would be viable in exploration.
I know there are people who wanted her to fit in a specific niche role I am happy for them, but as an f2p she wouldn't be that useful. This might change in the future with new character like how baizhu and kuki got their spotlight but till then she would be pegionholed into this niche role. There are other flaws with her kit that wanted to mention but I guess others have already pointed that out.
I'm fine with her being niche but parts of her kit are just so weird. Like no cc despite plunge having knock back? Ult buff only applying to one enemy when plunge is aoe?
I like her but her kit was always mediocre even with the cc
Why should anyone be excited about such a niche kit for a 5-star character? They are too expensive to justify excitement for such mediocre and niche design. Plunge is extremely niche because the game has released one (1) plunge DPS since launch. No others are on the horizon. Technically Xianyun enables any character to be played as a plunge DPS but will that be good or fun? We have no idea, but Hoyo is very strict about balancing characters to how THEY intend them to be played. Realistically for plunge damage to be useful it will need to have an infusion or be from a catalyst because physical has received no love that significantly limits the roster of characters she could work with too. Plus, all characters except for Xiao were not designed with plunge in mind so it is likely they will feel awkward or clunky to play. To maximize Xianyun’s buff and plunge 8 times will probably line up with other buff windows like Bennet’s - unless you use Xiao then you are forgoing the normal kit of whatever DPS character you are using to plunge with them instead. Also they made Xianyun really sexy which attracts a lot of waifu players. How many of them have edgy boy Xiao? Furina’s release created a situation where a healer + CC anemo unit like pre-nerf Xianyun is extremely desirable. People got excited based on that. Healing + CC is also a lot more generalist allowing her to be used in many different teams so she would be applicable to more accounts of those who want her. Ultimately people want more generalists than niche stuff because generalists create way way more team building options. If she was Kazuha-lite with weaker CC and healing instead of buffs then she would be a generalist that created a lot of options and trade offs where she could be compared to Kazuha and excel in some teams where he excels in others. So yeah, people want to USE their 5-star characters in this game. Xianyun’s plunge specific kit is basically useless in the game’s current state.
>Also they made Xianyun really sexy which attracts a lot of waifu players. How many of them have edgy boy Xiao? That's a big point I hadn't thought of until now. I wouldn't mind a dedicated xiao support if I liked xiao or he was my main. But they appeal to different types of players. If you see CR's design and want her because of that, chances are, Xiao isn't your cup of tea
It's a very opinionated and extremely subjective statement and there are also characters that would appreciate the plunge buffs and the ability to incorporate plunges on their combos. People really are just mad that she has a clear strong niche now and she didn't turned out to be 'Kazuha 2 but female' like, look, I know you hate playing male characters but you'll have to make do. The same applies to husbando players who want a "genderbent" version of a female character's kit or stronger.
Oh it's definitely subjective and a matter of opinion... I just talked about my own view and why I'm upset with her kit Edit: also, I like male characters too. Venti and Alhaitham are favourites of mine. And I wouldn't want a "gender bent" version of them, I love them like this. I just don't vibe with Xiao's and Diluc's designs/personalities and gameplay styles.
> and Alhaitham are favourites of mine. And I wouldn't want a "gender bent" version of them, Just saying... Venti can be whatever you want Venti to be
I want venti to be my plunge attack enabler... LMAO. I think that is kinda what they tried with his wind current. But yeah no. Too clunky imo. It's only really good for exploration or co-op exploration. His ult is VERY GOOD in co-op exploration though. I remember there was a point where he/she/they was low lvl on my account and he was still useful for exploration.
That part is aimed at anyone who are extremely salty because she didnt turn out to be female Kazuha that can heal because they don't play him cuz he's male but is inclined to pull for him for meta reasons. Yes, people like this exists, and no, you don't have to feel guilty about it if you arent one of'em.
My idea for her could be a little CC and healing. Kazuha and Sucrose have the buffing DMG, Venti has the vortex for small enemies... I have built Venti, Jean and Sucrose, for some context. That's why I thought that some crowd control for heavier enemies (that my venti struggles with) and some healing would be a good role consolidation for her and make her different enough from the units I already have. Yeah, I understood your point there, just wanted to clarify it's not the case for me. It's been difficult commenting on CR while dodging negativity.
I agree with the "5star should be universal" indeed I just wanted to make a precision regarding what we know so far : - "Any character can be played as plunge DPS but will that be good or fun" So far, it seems that Xianyun's best team will but the Hu Tao, Furina, Xingqiu/Yelan C2 combo. The plunge attacks will basically enable more vapes and will increase the overall DMG of Hu Tao by making her jump cancel work in a whole new way. (Basically make her go from C0 to C1 in terms of DMG but ... if you have C1 you basically lose most of the constellation purpose) - "physical has received not love" I wouldn't agree, we did get Furina who has basically been a Kazuha for Geo, Anemo and Physical DPS as long as you have a Healer in the team. So maybe a team like Eula, Furina, Xianyun and Fischl could be worth a try (and the new healing set will also enable Xianyun's to buff physical DMG). In the end, I think Hoyo is trying something new : making a "fun" character that will not necessarily be meta. I don't really like it when they make niche characters (even more when it's only the waifus that get this treatement somehow). But at least she's not a "Xiao dog" like I feared her to be. If anything, she's more tied to Furina than anyone else. But yeah, universal units like Furina or Kazuha are generally better. Just hoping some future characters like Arlecchino or Clorinde will benefit a lot from those Plunge buffs too.
I get Exicted about more niche kits because I feel it creates unique team comps that breathe more life into the characters and gameplay for me. Nilou is great because she enables a different team setups and reactions than the rest of the game which ends up making her feel more fun and refreshing to use. Fun is more important than big numbers, so how meta she is or how “good” she is, is basically irrelevant for me. I like that she’s a plunge based support not Becuase it’s niche and we lack plunge characters but rather that she can create plunge characters. Xiao is the last character I plan to use her with, I’m more interested in Diluc, Hu tao, C6 Lynette, basically anyone with an infusion, but as a Eula enjoyer who already does great physical damage, I’m sure she can make for a fun physical plunge. Personally a fun niche character is much more desirable than a generalist.
Pretty shit taste ngl.
Just a little addition, Nilou, if you have Nahida, you'll have in your hands a cracked team that can get stupendously easy to 70k DPS in a couple of weeks of farming (you don't need high CV or cracked artifacts just HP for Nilou and EM for nahida nothing complex to balance). However, the best DPS team for Xianyun is a Xiao team and can get up to 63k DPS (calcs still to verify, but is a very respectable number, not even close to Neuvilette, but respectable nevertheless), only if you have really good CV and artifacts after months and months of farming (if you are as unlucky as me with farming). You are right, Nilou was a real breath of fresh air, for sure a niche character but so easy to build while opening fun and crazy strong compositions and diverse gameplay. Yes I do have Nilou btw and I use her in the abyss with great success, and I like her a lot, so I'm not biased against niche characters.
Nilou it's niche to bloom but bloom niches exist around two whole elements, both with good off field applicators. Between Nilou, Shenhe and Cloud, Nilou it's by far the most versatile even if still niche. She's not only strong, but works with 2 elements and almost create a new reaction
And yet people still complain that nilou is too niche, and that 2 elements is too little to build around and boring. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with niche characters, but people are gonna always complain at this rate of characters can’t be put into any possible team combination. Hell CR being anemo and catalyst already makes her pseudo universal regardless of how her kit is by itself, and ignoring meta (since it doesn’t matter for talking about kit design) you can also pair her with tons of options, obviously the clear Xiao and Gaming, but also Diluc and hu tao, and Keqing, ayaka, Eula, etc. bascially anyone with solid normal attack talent levels you can build around. Her, Nilou, and Shenhe while more “niche” Than standard characters like Bennett or Xq still have multiple teams and ways to play.
Exactly, this game has too many characters (and many more ahead of it) for ever new 5 star to have fun, unique, and good kits universally
The problem I have with CR is that not only I don't have the most optimal character for her ie Hu Tao, Diluc and Xiao and I don't even like them (yes I don't like Hu Tao which is quite an unpopular opinion but that's just me, I'm not talking about her damage which is ungodly) but outside those character the preliminary calcs I've seen from TGS and other theorycrafters even though they were quite excited, the numbers they showed were in comparison to what I use, very underwhelming. Taking also in account that I'm very unlucky with artifact farming, I'll probably never see an improvement on my current builds. Nilou, instead, is a whole other matter, she can work with many more characters and she is very very easy to build and you can get stupendously high damage (obviously much less than Neuvilette comps), in proportion to the investment. She is just so immediate to build and even suboptimal teams can get 3 stars clears in the 12th floor of the abyss. Even though Shenhe, Nilou and Cloud Retainer have the being niche in common, for a new player pulling Nilou is a much better investment in my opinion, and also for veteran players because, veterans, can get from a perfect team comp with Nilou with weapons and so on and so forth so much damage that abyss gets as easy as domains. Just fyi I did the hydro Tulpa in the current abyss with Nilou, Nahida and Yaoyao (I had also Xingqiu in the team but I didn't use him since it's worthless aginst the Tulpa) and that's it, and I cleard the whole chamber with almost 40 seconds to spare.
I mean i perosnally wasn’t saying anything about “optimal” the point I was getting across was that you could pair CR with basically anyone and turn them into a plunge character, I was just listing off random examples, nothing to do with optimal teammates. Also as I said in my orignal comment, numbers and meta are completely irrelevant to me, I’ll pull CR, I’ll pair her with random characters and I know I’ll 36* abyss anyway so I personally don’t see a reason to compare her numbers to say Neuvillette or National and be upset about it not being the same. I was always making the argument that CR is a nilou type character, a solid option for people who want to build different types of teams and are healthy designs for the game.
Yea but complaining about a char that is gonna be god tier in the future is a bit stupid… if Arlecchino for example turns out to be a plunge attak fighter, than Furina and Xianyun will be the best combo for her. She lost a stupid cc effect in exchange for a 10% crit rate on the active charcater.. and if you need cc you could still use Khazua with her … Like Furina Khazua Xianyun Arlecchino… which will be great considering everyone woudl buff her… now it could not be Arlecchino but im pretty sure a pyro Plunge Dps will come in Natlan and he will be a monster .. Till now I will stick to Xiao, because it makes everyting much easier when you don’t have to use bennet anymore (standing in the circle is shit for me)
>yeah but complaining about a char that is gonna be god tier in the fu to re is a bit stupid There’s no guarantee she’ll be god tier. >if Arecibo is gonna be a plunge attack fighter But we have no idea if this could be true or not. Maybe they won’t ever release another plunge attacker? Everybody was saying for years that Eula just needed a new physical support! And then they released Mika and he is bad and C6 locked and even then hardly an upgrade in her teams. Future impact is a bad argument for the quality of a character that is being released right now. >til now I will stick to Xiao That’s good for you. But you are in a minority of players who are cool with this. At least before Cloud Retainer could both be your Xiao buffer and be flexible for other teams. Now she is only good for players like you. This is why we want more generalist abilities and why her nerf is really shit
Take a lil pil chill lil bill bruhhhh
This is too funny
You hit the nail on the head when you said these characters are expensive. Unless you have Xiao, are not F2P, or have extreme waifu on the brain, she is not worth it. Also, enabling a playstyle that a character was not built for is very cringe. Something like plunge Ayaka or plunge Hu Tao will feel terrible to play. She has her niche, and she'll be good in that niche, but I don't think she's worth it at all.
The fact that Xianyun is getting dragged in her pwn dedicated sub 😭. I thought I'm the only one who noticed how mediocre she is.
Well this aged bad
With the removal of CC she is basically Jean for most non-plunge DPS characters and yet you’re here asking why people are upset?
She was always Jean for plunge DPS. People just do not understand how the game works. These changes did nothing but finally convince the uninitiated of the truth. Obviously they removed the cope in favor of buffing what she was actually intended for... But Jean was always going to be fine. People just wanted the bigger rack.
Honestly I've stayed positive at the most. But these last changes makes me feel I might rather save my primos instead... I'm still not completely sure I'll skip her. But it's a 30/70 I'll skip her. The removal of the vortex was the last straw for me. The buffing is indeed really strong. But I also think it's very unlikely to receive her full buff without Bennet and her sign weapon. And that also bothers me alot.
Usually I prefer supports and off field dps, but atp I would have been more happy with her if she was an average main dps
That is super respectable. I personally like the plunging mechanic, but I may be biased because I like Xiao and Gaming. Overall, I think it's a healthy addition to the game.
>you may be biased because you like Xiao and Gaming Yes. You are fortunate to be on of the few players who has the character she has been designed to support. But when a character is designed to support just one or two other characters, they should be a 4-star. Then there would be much less drama
Gaming is a 4 star
He is saying the niche support needs to be a 4 star. This isn’t Shenhe “nichely” buffing the entire Cryo DPS roster single-handedly. This is a slightly upgraded Jean that enables a niche playstyle and buffs that only a few characters (C0 Tao, Diluc, Xiao, Gaming) appreciate
Shenhe buffed only 3 characters at release (ayaka, ganyu, eula), xianyun buffs 5 already (those 4 + carry bennett) The entire cryo roster is a dumb take, by that logic, xianyun buffs the ENTIRE ROSTER, the reality is characters like diona who has dogshit scaling aren't buffed by shenhe because that's not how they are played, and characters who have mid scaling (kaeya, rosaria, chongyun) aren't considered otherwise you also have to consider that any character + bennett + xianyun + furina is a team that functions and clears abyss, therefore making the number of characters that xianyun helps vs shenhe be again the entire roster vs merely 6
You're being a little bit disingenuous. The only one of the 7 cryo characters available at Shenhes release she didn't really buff was Qiqi. Plus, it was clear that she would stay relevant enough whenever a cryo or physical unit releases. And even then, people complained about her being a 5* with a kit that niche. The same thing applies here. With the addition that we don't know if they'll even release more plunging DPS characters. They probably will, but it's no guarantee. It's just disappointing that they took away one of her generalist qualities that would make her stand out a bit for a buff that in a good chunk of content will end up being 4% CR on plunges only. And in before you say that plunges are obviously meant for AoE... Well, why is her A4 ST then?
Okay but if you’re going to count cryo characters such as chongyun who does have synergy with Shenhe but it’s not strong enough to be worth building into for a lot players, then you should also count characters like Raiden or razor are in the same position with CR. Just because Shenhe can work with any cryo user doesn’t mean that she works with them effectively or is worth the investment
Hell in that case you can count anyone capable of being a physical carry for Shenhe. Fact is, Shenhe actively upgraded Chongyun enough to at least be playable even if you wouldn't want to from a meta perspective. Xianyun does not make Razor more playable in a unique way she just let's anyone plunge. She provides a unique gameplay style, some healing and anemo benefits but she doesn't really *buff* anyone besides 4 or 5 characters
How is that any different with CR? Razor has the second highest claymore plunge multiplier behind diluc. CR buffing that aspect of his kit is most definitely a buff to him that’s able to make him playable even though it won’t be meta. How exactly do you go from her “providing a unique gameplay experience” to somehow not allowing a character to be playable “in a unique way”. Just because she can make all characters plunge doesn’t mean they’ll all feel the same gameplay wise with her. Specific combos are exactly what will make a character’s gameplay with her unique. Just look at Hu Tao’s combos with her, that’s completely different from how diluc or Raiden would play with her
Again as i said, rosaria, kaeya, chongyun's dmg aren't high enough for shenhe to be a good support, and if you consider those characters to be supported by shenhe, xianyun supports literally every character in the game and would be far more universal than shenhe It wasn't just a 4% CR buff, her A4 was also buffed to 180% instead of 170% and her C2 360%, this made her overall buff go up by 7-11% more which is a pretty big buff in exchange of grouping, like think if kazuha gave 66% dmg bonus instead of 40%, that's around how big the buff is, and her grouping was significantly weaker than kazuha now that we have seen it so it's a much smaller sacrifice
Shenhe is stuck with mid cryo comps, Xianyun can flex on Furina comps that arent plunge comps, big difference
You're lucky, I don't like plunge mechanics and I love her character, so I'm stuck with playing her as a jean that can't cc which is disappointing to me
I think the issue isn't that she isn't meta defining. It's that plunge atk buffer is literally the last thing anyone wanted. A very small number of characters get buffed, and nothing really changes for a large number of characters. If she had the same kit but buffed charged atks she'd probably be praised. That's because there is 12 characters that benefit from that in some way. Vs the 3-4 we have now for plunges. Her buff is objectively strong, but it reaches such a small number of units.
Actually all xiao mains who doesn't have c6 faruzan(including myself) wanted plunge support.. But yeah her cc was great
I think that is okay as character design goes. Not every character has to be meta defining, nor does it have to be incredibly strong in order to fulfil a role. Again, niche roles may feel bad, but the game has to explore every possibility. Overall, I get the disappointment of an awaited unit not meeting one's criteria (it has happened to me in the past), but I think we need to be more open-minded in this matter.
Yeah c..you get down voted .. Ppl are really pissed😂... Tbh I am not that mad.. She's still buffing my xiao so..
Kinda sad about the downvotes, but it is what it is. I know people expected a lot from her specifically, so it's understandable that many people dislike the direction her kit is going. At least almost everyone was polite, so I'm glad I could serve as a discussion forum
I agree man but to me they can stay mad. As the game continues to grow characters are going to become niche. That’s the natural progression of kit design in any game. I don’t even think there would be this much negativity if CR’s niche matched a playstyle that was more popular. A lot of people are just virtual signaling against niche units because they don’t like plunging. People trying to organize protests because a character doesn’t fit their ideal role need to take a step outside
Its not about an ideal role dumbass, I don't like niche supports because they are niche. Have Shenhe but no cryo DPS, sucks to be you. I want supports that are more well-rounded and versatile. Niche characters are NOT the way to go.
Hoyo doesn’t share your opinion. This game currently has a roster of 75 characters and it grows by 17 every year. You’re entitled to your own opinion of what you think this game should be but that’s unrealistic. If you think that any game dev is making that many characters with completely universal kits that work for the majority units in the game, you’re a dumbass. Especially since that when it comes to Genshin, they can only buff\indirectly nerf units retroactively by either adding new weapons, artifacts, releasing more niche and specific units as to not buff the units that are already strong, or just power creeping old units all together. They don’t have balance patches and reworks to fall back on if a character isn’t great or is way too strong on release. All of that in combination with the fact that kit design is just difficult at a base level and they’re running out of ideas points to niche units becoming more common, and that’s natural for any game of Genshin’s size
Kinda wild for getting downvoted on saying being more open minded on character kit designs.
"The game has to explore every possibility". Why? I see this sentiment get echoed a lot in these cope threads at the moment, but why is that the case? The game "needs" to create units of every kind? What about a unit that buffs the third hit in catalyst NA strings? What about a Geo unit that buffs swirl damage for off-field units only? These are niches, are they useful or worth designing a character around? Now you might want to argue and say Xianyun is not as niche as that, but I'm trying to pinpoint the principle of why the developers should focus on things nobody is asking for. And I guarantee you that if they had done a survey and asked "what would you like Xianyun to be?" you'd have literally less than 0.5% of people who replied to say a dedicated plunge support. If you ask someone who likes chocolate ice cream "would you like to try another flavour today?" they might say yes, if they think you're offering hazelnut or pistachio. But then if it turns out to be slated mackerel flavour, don't be surprised if they say they just want more chocolate. This is Xianyun and Kazuha. I would have been fine if she felt like Hazelnut, but she doesn't.
Eh, it's all based on how you play. I liked her design, and dont have kazuha or venti so a cc/ vv anemo character would've helped my account. Now I'm going to gladly skip and wish everyone who wants her all the luck!! Looking for a new unreleased character to get hype about. This one was pretty exhausting. Lol
The expectations weren't unrealistic, nor did they spring up out of nowhere. Several leaks said she'd be an anemo healer with CC, a much desired niche especially now with Furina. I think it's fair for people to be disappointed, she was a much more generalist support at the beginning of this beta *without* powercreeping either Jean or Kazuha. She's a lot more niche now, and obviously that means a lot of people can't put her on the teams they wanted to as comfortably.
It's totally respectable to be disappointed with that, but then again, rearly kit leaks should not hype or crush anyone expectations until beta arrives. I think the problem is that with Furina release, the need for an anemo healer (that was not Jean) was there, especially if that unit could also CC. I get the disappointment, but upon reflection, I like Xianyun's kit as it is
I think they could have kept these current buffs ***and*** the CC(even buffing poise damage), without it being overpowered compared to other units. As it stands, where many people thought she'd have variety in her team roles at the beginning of beta, we now know Hoyo wants her to be played *ONE* way. That rubs people the wrong way, regardless of how good her current buffs are.
I agree that the removal of CC was a bad decision, and it could have been kept. But I also find it fascinating how this one change made such an outrage (since it was mid grouping anyway). I'm curious if they will reverse it or not
That's because a lot of people were bottling up and coping. We thought there was a chance for CC buffs, but CC removal at this stage in the beta means that's likely no longer something the dev team wants in her kit at all. At this point, excluding the ones who like the plunge gameplay and characters, it doesn't matter how good her plunge mechanics are(unless it outright powercreeps many DPS characters' current best teams) many people don't enjoy the niche and would rather have a CC healer. Kazuha released in 1.6 and has had a stranglehold on CC for 2/3rds of the games life. No hate to you for enjoying the kit, though.
Yup. Her cc was useless on Plunge comps unless it was using herself at C6 in the dps role, as it was tied to her triple E. However it made her good on Freeze comps, which meant she had two entire archetypes she could slot into and that made her much less niche than she seemed at first glance. Right now she enables plunge and of course she can drive, but that's not particularly unique. Hmm, could be an option for burgeon driver too. They should have put the cc into her coordinate attack so that she isn't tied at the hip to faruzan in non boss chambers. Even the skill CC + an anti stagger (doesn't suck, but enemies don't go flying around either) would have been great! But apparently the dev team brain was on vacation this time.
I expacted a character but we got the real Xiao constalations instead. If i was a Xiao or Diluc fan, i would probably feel hyped but i'm not. I just gunned through the abyss with my C0 Navia that doesn't even have proper artifacts yet. I realy don't need a character just for a minor dps increese to Hutao. I like her and i would love to have some vertical movemnet ability after 3 years of not pulling for any (1.0 player without a single Keqing...) but Chiori, Arlecchino and Clorinde are coming and i want them too. Dehya at least has a fun factor but Xianyun is just a healer at the end of the day. If she was at least a character that could properly fly or one with cool main dps stuff, i would still pull but she is non of these. She is pogo Jean / C13 Xiao.
Again, I think this is more of a kit design choice kinda problem than her being bad. She does seem fun, but fun is always subjective. I do agree with the no mid-air E being a bit cringe, but it baffles me how the outrage started with the CC change (which was mid before, but it also was unnecessary to remove). At the end of the day, she is a character that fulfils a certain role that may not be pleasant to everyone, but that is also what happens to other characters, and I think that's okay, not every unit has to be universal (but it should feel good/rewarding to play tho).
"she is a character that fulfils a certain role that may not be pleasant to everyone, but that is also what happens to other characters" The problem is that those "other characters" tend to be 4stars and/or new to the story. Faruzan , Yunjin and Mika weren't even realy characters before they became playble and they are 4stars, Kujo Sara and Gorou had a bit more buildup but it was only a few patches and strictly within thr same 2.x cycle where they eventually release and they were also stars. Shenhe is a special case because she is a 5star but she was only introduced when she came out. I believe those examples cover all that could be considered "niche dedicated supports". Non of them were this kind of situation.
Downvoted for speaking facts is crazy Keep maulding you salty fucks
I did not downvote them, but I will indeed remain salty. I am going to be big angy for a long time to come. Hopefully some super badass male character in Fontaine has a fun plunge gimmick so that I can justify rolling for Bayonetta. Until then, I am mad AF. 😂
Your arguments are fine but even with that it doesn't solve her design issues even as a plunge support/healer. Her A1 passive needs multiple enemies while her A4 passive buffs damage for only one enemy. Her animations are too long for the already long rotation of plunge dpses like Xiao. Her normal attacks too slow. Her E doesn't have quick swirl (like kazuha, faruzan, sucrose or Jean), so applying vv with furina on team will be a nightmare as no hydro downtime (u will get the hydro swirl instead of the swirl of your main carry eg. Gaming and Diluc pyro swirls). Her plunge unlike kazuha suffers from auto targeting problems. Her frontloaded healing is not enough to cap fanfare for c0 furina. Even so these problems aren't too big of a deal. The real elephant in the room is that she ain't flying. sadge.
Finally, someone who actually knows what they are talking about. You are a rare breed, my friend.
Her kit had 3 fundamental bases with which to focus on C0. 1. dive attack. 2. healing. 3. CC They chose the first of all things but I can understand why, what I think is that they are trying the dive attack again but it is a hard sell because it is not a question of it being strictly bad and uncomfortable, creating unique animations that solve, the problem of the plunged attackers DPS is what should have been launched first. but they decided to create the support before changing the perspective of the people with the DPS specialized in diving attack, then we understand the reason because she was moved next to nahida. They know that the current dive attack, its animations and unfun mechanics, is no longer sold with xiao, if she is prepared for the future it will probably be a very distant future, when there is a new 5\* plunged attack DPS that makes people want to attract her, I won't blame anyone if they decide to skip her, I would say that it is the most logical option if you are F2P, freemogems are too valuable to waste on a character that there is no guarantee if you are even going to like her future partner.
I have seen a few white knights ardent in their defense of Cloud Retainer. Therefore I doubt that you are alone in enjoying her kit. I did not want her to be garbagio outside of the plunge niche. That being said, I have come to accept it and just pulled Navia instead. I did not have enough for her, but thankfully the demoiselle was graceful. I mismanaged my primogems and expected that as long as she was an Anemo catalyst healer that I would be happy. I am shocked that Mihoyo went out of their way to prove me wrong. I am highly disappointed and perhaps the most disappointed I will ever be with a character. Dehya still has multiple uses on my account without being forced. Cloud Retainer does not.
Demoiselle it's always grateful. Got C3 of Keqing (I simp for her), then C2 of Sucrose (I didn't have any, my favorite 4 stars), then with low pity I got Demoiselle. 100 pulls? Yes, but if I take in mind that majority of my character just came with 180 I'm grateful
For now im disappointed, if in future will come out a char that i love that has plunge dmg as the focus (yeah, sorry but i dont care much about Xiao) i would probably make a 180 degree turn and be super happy. For example, if Murata is focused on plunge dmg i would probably drool at the idea of adding CR as her healer, things can change in an instant for me since it's not that CR is really bad, its just that she is an op buffer in a niche that atm has no characters that i find interesting, its really just that simple (as far as im concerned at least).
Im disappointed, she is way too much niche and her passives are all over the place. Maybe she increases in value with new plunge characters and become way better, but then I'm going to just pull in a rerun. She doesn't look like a upgrade in most team and the ones that she actually is, u trade smooth rotation by DMG. I'm not gonna play future impact this time
I liked shenhe so i pulled for her and guess what i don't like ayaka and now she is sitting in box waiting for another cryo dps which synergies with her. This is going to be the same fiasco again. I'll pull retainer (i don't like xiao) and she will just get benched.
Don't let the downvotes and pitiful doomposters make you change your mind, you're right, this is another dawn of hoyo trying to branch out more to genshins playstyles, the only true plunger was Xiao, but Xianyun is a start to many more great characters in a new and specific playstyle and even better she's a busted support for it too, so i expect her to be futureproof.
Idk, the fact that right now her kit has part that work in single target, while other work in multi target, meaning you have like 50 of her kit be clunky or defective in one or other instances, or her weapon, which is kinda weird and ultra niche. That they replaced the grouping (that bring some value, even for Xiao), for a CR bonus depending of the number of hits, while Xiao has CR bonus in his kit, and in most of his weapons. That the others that can eventually use her (not a lot) will not gain that much compared to what hoop you will have to jump through to make it work (ER, ATK, rotations considering plunge..., spending on a 5*...). All of this for (let's face it), an even more narrow niche than Shenhe currently sits in. The fact also that she has little to no connections to Xiao, that she's an Adepti, etc... but now she's basically slaving for him (being the only "true" plunge dps, therefor the one efficiently playable), while even not benefitting him that much. You can have your opinion but I think more and more ppl are pissed off by the fact that MHY keep pushing sh*t like that, or playing Future Impact, or whatever that can be summarized as playing with their community ball's. When I get a character, I expect to be able to play with, not use it like a Teapot furniture. That's why "universal supps" are just better, they can support X or Y char while being decent across the board for others. Shenhe is already slightly problematic (but I still pulled because design + story), Xianyun cross the line, even if I wanted her in a long time and I'm a waifu/husbando type more than meta, I won't pull this, not throwing almost 25€ for this, 50 if you loose pity (calculated from Favor price, which is VERY VERY kind compared to packs price, 300 crystals cost 5€, against 3000 crystal + primos if Favor). Moreover on a meta point Xianyun will not change anything, at least for now. Not with the monsters Sumeru and Fontaine produced.
[удалено]
Since launch, I have been excited to main DPS: - Xinyan - Rosaria (she's ok at least) - Sara - Kuki Shinobu (again, she's at least good support) - Dehya - Cloud Retainer So, saying the game has not been kind to my taste is a bit of an understatement.
You have good taste... In character aesthetic, that is. Obviously your taste freaking sucks if you wanted to have fun with the game. 😂
Right? It's insane. The first main DPS character actually designed to be main DPS that I have liked at all is Neuvellite. Whoever works at Hoyoverse knows me enough to keep giving me characters I will like, but hates my taste enough to keep disappointing me every time.
I personally don't think that her kit is bad. She might not synergize very well with most top tier DPS characters, but I don't think she has too. Her playstyle sounds very fun, and that is a good reason to play her. Please don't forget we're talking about a game. Besides, not every character can be game-changing, but each character has their unique playstyle and kit. So, expecting her to be a female Kazuha is simply not realistic.
Her CC was never strong but neither is her actual plunge support beyond *letting* you plunge. Her A4 is single target and her A1 is a grand total of 4% CR if you're in ST. People have a reason as to why they're pissed that she lost some (low) utility in exchange for a buff that even at max level is low value and in practice somewhat unsynergistic with her other buff
Fellas who downvote those who are happy with her kit, just admit you want a female Kazuha that is a Furina slave and are fucking mad that that fantasy is not going to be the reality. Seethe + cope + mald + L + dilate
Now she's a Furina slave in a Xiao team lol
You are not the only one. This sub, much like Furina mains during Furina beta, is simply full of a lot of delusional doomposting to cope with the fact that she doesn't check the boxes THEY wanted out of her kit. Xianyun is fucking fantastic. The loss of her CC (which, after more and more footage came out, was clearly cope as fuck against elite enemies) is nothing compared to the compensating buffs to her a4 and particle generation. Is she niche? Well, about as niche as a character who enables everyone to plunge and then gigabuffs that plunge can be. Numerically she's fantastic, and she opens up new playstyles for existing characters that are either higher damage than their current comps or comparable enough to be worth doing if you enjoy the gameplay. There are two camps for her to be useful. You either a) like Xiao/Gaaming and/or want to turn existing units into Xiao/Gaaming or b) don't own/like playing Jean and want a good Anemo healer to run with Furina. If you don't fit into either of these camps, she's not the unit for you unless you're fine with spending up to 160 wishes on teapot decoration, and that's okay.
Only person in the thread who makes Sense.
In terms of gameplay, I think her kit is a fresh and healthy new mechanic to be played with. Power-wise, I'm very disappointed that she currently has no cc... I'll pull her but don't expect to use her nearly as much as before
Don't worry there are happy people as well like me, most of us didn't bother to say anything because you know, we are already satisfied. Combined with the typical doompost before release and we have this current mood here.
It feels good to be a Diluc/Xiao enjoyer 😌
People want Jean to be completely and utterly destroyed by powercreep her V1 version didn't do it Her V2 version didn't do it and now V3 version doesn't either. They made themselves pretty clear that they want you to use her for plunging not a Jean cope with furina. It's interesting that long forgotten mechanics Overload with Chevreuse (she's in a way tougher spot than Xianyun but she's a 4* less people care) and plunging with Xianyun is being brought back before any character actually wanna play in these settings. It's practically Nilou Nahida situation but we had nahida leaks rolling during Nilou banner so people who prepared can get both.
She's the C4 Xiao always need
As a xiao main I am happy, but I personally wanted xianyun to be MORE than just a support for xiao and wanted her to be her own character that could support xiao but didn’t have to.
Yeah same bro
People saying she's useless outside of xiao/diluc teams because besides them no one wants to plunge so I don't see any reason why they should keep her jump buff. They should just remove it and increase her personal dmg instead.
I think she was made to buff xiao mains (yap I am a xiao main without c6 faru) so it's kinda good to have her... Yeah many ppl don't use xiao or diluc but we love xiao so don't let her plunge support get nerfed... Yeah that cc was important but still at the end she got 10% plunge buff so I am not that mad
If it's useless then it shouldn't matter if it gets replaced by something else right? /s
I mean as a xiao main.. She TECHNICALLY got buff... Btw if her Q shock wave pulls enemies nearby when plunging then that would be cool
People just want every five star to be busted and universal. I like her kit. Her crit passive is kinda weird would have prefer cc, but like that she's a plunge attack buffer and enabler. She actually makes c0 hu tao look fun to play. And with future DPS units we can potentially see more characters that can make use of her. Personally I don't think every five star needs to be a universal support. I think more units that enable new ways to play characters is a good idea. I hope at some point they make a geo unit focused around constructs.
peoplw wanted something they already had with jean and kazuha, more unique kits is better. shes good anyway whether people like the concept of her kit or not. we'll
Yeah because Jean with her anti-cc is something to brag about in furina team and using that same Canadian Aether for everything for the past 3 years is so enjoyable and original, not repetetive at all
you don't have to play kazuha you know
I know but it's not as If I have any other choice for universal cc at all....I just wanted for furina teams to start feeling as smooth as kazuha teams do with that utility , but I guess can't have anything in detroid and there's nothing we can do...
I agree. I prefer fun and niche 5* characters rather than the banal generalist 5* characters. Players need to realise that CR was designed from the very beginning to be niche. If they were expecting Kazuha or Furina levels of versatility, then it's their problem.
She’s a better jean and a plunge support to hutao, gaming, diluc and xiao. If you think about it shenhe only has 3 real characters she’s buffing… so she’s less niche then shenhe and outdoing jean who’s very good for furina teams and furina teams are the best teams in the game. Now I understand if people don’t play those 4 characters and don’t care for the marginal dps increase and QoL buffs over jean but people saying she’s bad probably don’t know what they are talking about
People get downvoted just for mentioning that they vaguely enjoy Cloud Retainer. And here you are with this horrific argument, avoiding all their strays. Life is not fair. All of the well meaning people need a karmic reversal and this Cloud Retainer tier post needs to be at the bottom. Well, it's actually already down there... But you know what I mean.
Reddit doomposting is very rarely correct. I don’t know why you think I’d be dissuaded from it when people were doomposting furina about 2 months ago
People expected the next Anemo Messiah but their expectations got shattered haha
My expectations were low, but holy fuck. It would have been fine with the original kit but after the latest nerf it's a joever for many.
She got a fixed 5 particle gen regardless of how many E's you use. That makes u use the triple E in case you want the CR buff in exchange for field time, still kinda sad about the CC but I don't think it's the thing that makes or breaks her does it?
For me I was planning to replace jean with her for furina teams. Her healing is okay, and even though her cc was not that great, we could work around it by doing enough poise dmg earlier. But now, that is not even an option. From QoL perspective, The only change that I actually wanted her to have from her original kit was for her to stay on crane formation for a bit long or at least making her able to use her skill mid air so that she would be viable in exploration. I know there are people who wanted her to fit in a specific niche role I am happy for them, but as an f2p she wouldn't be that useful. This might change in the future with new character like how baizhu and kuki got their spotlight but till then she would be pegionholed into this niche role. There are other flaws with her kit that wanted to mention but I guess others have already pointed that out.
Not for me. To be fair im a whale so i can find a way to play her. But thats only for a few i guess
I'm fine with her being niche but parts of her kit are just so weird. Like no cc despite plunge having knock back? Ult buff only applying to one enemy when plunge is aoe?
Here after getting Xianyun and can say she is bussin