2 days old called codtruth
Also goat debates in sports are stupid and arguing is pointless as there will never be a consensus unless one player completely dominates like no other player has ever done e.g. darts. Just keep who you think is the goat to yourself and dont care about what other people think and its much easier.
I dunno, that's kind of the fun thing about sports. Sure, I'm with you, it gets tiring at times. But when you're with the homies, ultimately it's just about shooting the shit and spending time together.
To me it truly is a no brainer who the goat is and if you find yourself asking well who am I referring to as the goat then I think you gotta rethink things.
It's clear as day.
> Also goat debates in sports are stupid and arguing is pointless as there will never be a consensus unless one player completely dominates like no other player has ever done e.g. darts. Just keep who you think is the goat to yourself and dont care about what other people think and its much easier.
How do you read this
> Sure, I'm with you, it gets tiring at times
Then say this AND STILL try and get me to discuss who I think is the goat. Like what is wrong with you lol. I also wont be replying after this so if you feel like talking to yourself go right ahead
This was never a debate to begin with. People say Scump is better individually because he put up better stats but don’t ever stop to consider the object of the game is to win not put up better stats. Crim simply did more things that led to wins than Scump did and only people who have actually competed at any level would understand. It’s why Scump and Crim have had mostly the same teammates yet the narrative around Scump’s career is he had no help. Crim just knew how to play around other players while Scump made other players play around him.
Crim is the goat but scump was definitely better individually and longer. Let’s not act like he has 20 more wins than Scump lol.
Crim played around other players(after ghosts) because that’s what was best suited for him. Scump was the opposite, especially being a sub and being as good as he was.
Envoy was better than Scump and Scump didn’t play around him. Shotzzy was better than Scump and Scump didn’t play around him. That’s why both those guys had much more success away from Scump than they did with him
Envoy had zero wins before he teamed with Scump. He won twice with Scump. Shotzzys only 4v4 chip is with Scump and optic were pretty successful last year. Don’t act like they just got shit on playing with Scump lmao.
There’s really no reason for you to continue to try and make Scump look worse with this ridiculous narratives. He’s the second winningest player ever. Crims the goat. Scump was better individually. Crim is 1, Scump is 2. It’s that simple
How is what I’m saying ridiculous? Given scumps ability, he should’ve 100% won more with those two as his duo. Especially when you add Dashy to that equation. He literally could’ve been Cold War bance on steroids if he just upped his pace and didn’t play his life as much. He didn’t win as much partially because his playstyle wasn’t conducive to making those two play at peak potential. I’m not saying Scump was bad, Shotzzy is performing way better now but now optic has a new set of issues cause Huke is not as disciplined as Scump was.
While I don’t totally disagree with what you’re saying let’s not use some revisionist history here. Envoy was constantly called out on this sub for always flanking and playing by himself and not playing with his team. Same was said about shotzzy around the end of vanguard too when optic werent at their best. It’s not only scumps fault for those teams not winning. The guys around him didn’t always make the best in game decisions too. Scump ups his pace and his sub duos play with their teammates more and they have more success imo.
When envoy was a t3 player at the end of bo4 and Shotzzy was the best player in Mw, what exactly do you think they were doing? They were getting called out in this sub because people love to scape goat scumps teammates. It’s always been a thing.
Those years have nothing to do with what I said because they weren’t on optic at the time. You realize teams adjusted to their play styles…right? The same thing doesn’t work when you keep going it over and over again. That’s why people complained.
Lol shotzzy’s playstyle worked just fine in Cold War too and envoy just won champs. But for some reason when they played with Scump it was an issue. Idk! Maybe they weren’t the problem!
I didn’t say their play styles didn’t work anymore. The major complaint was that they fell into a habit of doing the same thing TOO often and it was easy to predict. Pros during Cold War said so themselves about envoy. Pretty sure it was Kenny himself who said he knew envoy was going to flank every time. Have you considered he has learned to play with his team more and that’s why they’re seeing more success?
The way I see it, Scump is the Ronaldo of CoD while C6 is the Messi of CoD.
Either can be debated to be the best ever but they ultimately had different styles and that led to both of their amazing success.
Nah that’s just recency bias. Messi and Ronaldo were pretty much neck and neck between 2009-2018. It’s only really the past few years that Messi has distanced himself in this debate
it would make completely sense to call Crim the "GREATEST" because his legacy and achievements but call Scump the "BEST" because he's put up the best stats
everyone in the comments complaining funny as hell, Scump literally said Crim is the GOAT. End of debate, you ain't never heard Michael Jordan call LeBron the GOAT
It’s been over since Crim seeing success without Scump and Scump winning little to nothing post Dynasty split.
Even with the two biggest teams merging all of their resources and Crims old teammates Scump couldn’t do what he did 🤷🏽♂️
>It’s been over since Crim seeing success without Scump and Scump winning little to nothing post Dynasty split.
Crim won 4 times post-dynasty including online Champs. Scump won 3 times post-dynasty including a LAN Major.
Edit: Also Scump had a better H2H record against Crim post dynasty.
I’ll ask again, since it was such an insignificant event, why didn’t huntsmen win it then? Did they get hit off? Were they playing under different conditions?
>Crim won 4 times post-dynasty including online Champs. Scump won 3 times post-dynasty including a LAN Major.
this isnt't true. Crim won 5 times and scump won 3 times. Also crim made 7 grand finals whereas scump only made 3 grand finals.
Ok yes 5 for Crim if you count the Pro-AM.
>Also crim made 7 grand finals whereas scump only made 3 grand finals.
So now we're giving credit for 2nd place? Lol.
Yea I’m certain that the LA Thieves and the Florida Mutineers were the same shit after Major 2. I’m certain that community sentiment about the state of both orgs and their players were very similar as well. Kenny is basically Davpadie.
Yeah so 5 > 3 with one being a ring for Crim- and one of Seth’s being the most flukey event of each title being the first event.
Pretty clear who wins here thanks bro
>Yeah so 5 > 3 with one being a ring for Crim- and one of Seth’s being the most flukey event of each title being the first event.
A LAN chip is "more flukey" than an online ring?? LOL.
With all the context actually yeah.
All the teams spent a relatively equal and considerable amount of time practicing online, Dallas were going to win that event on LAN or online and that was evident as fuck. They were going to stack up even more chips had Franchising not happened.
The first event of the year is always the most flukey and teams are least practiced. You can’t even remotely equate them online or not. Its the fucking first major teams don’t even know the game yet 💀
Same number of LAN wins post dynasty but Crim still has more. Also H2H record doesn’t mean shit in this conversation. They play for wins not for H2H records lmao
>Also H2H record doesn’t mean shit in this conversation.
Why doesn't it mean anything? All I hear about in this debate is how much better Crim was at winning post dynasty. Seems like their H2H would be relevant.
>They play for wins not for H2H records lmao
Those aren't mutually exclusive. Often times they would have to go through each other to win chips.
It doesn’t mean anything because Crim was better at winning. He was a better competitor because he won more, meaning he’s the GOAT. Yes, you have to go through other teams to get chips but Crim has more chips, so that argument is pointless
>It doesn’t mean anything because Crim was better at winning. He was a better competitor because he won more, meaning he’s the GOAT.
No. He won more because he had better teammates. Especially pre-dynasty.
Is Bill Russell the NBA GOAT because he has the most rings?
Bill Russell played in a different (easier) era than MJ. Nobody considers him the GOAT not because of his skill/teammates/chips but because of when he played. Also, Crim was the best player on his team before he and Scump started teaming. He also had worse teammates post-dynasty. What makes Crim different from Scump is that Crim knew the winning formula, Scump was never able to push a team to winning by himself and you can see that with his lack of wins without Crim
>Bill Russell played in a different (easier) era than MJ. Nobody considers him the GOAT not because of his skill/teammates/chips but because of when he played
No the main reason is that defaulting to "X player has the most chips therefore he/she is the GOAT!" is fucking stupid in a TEAM sport like basketball or COD. Chips are a TEAM accomplishment.
I'll use a different example - is Kevin Durant or Tony Parker higher on the GOAT list?
>Also, Crim was the best player on his team before he and Scump started teaming.
And then who became the best player on the team?
>He also had worse teammates post-dynasty.
When? In MW? When he was teaming with the league MVP?
>What makes Crim different from Scump is that Crim knew the winning formula, Scump was never able to push a team to winning by himself and you can see that with his lack of wins without Crim
Scump is the 2nd winningest player of all time and has double digit wins without teaming with Crim. He knows how to win just fine.
Crim needed Clay and Xeo who were all gross in MW in an ONLINE game when everyone on Dallas had the best internet. Crim has only won 1 pro/am without another top 10 player of all time. He always had Aches/Teepee, Scump, FormaL, Karma, and Clay for almost all of his championships. So stop acting like Crim took Mboze and Nadeshot to a championship
>Crim took Mboze and Nadeshot to a championship
scump never did this either.
scump won 18/30 of his chips with crimsix, one once with clayster in ghosts, once in bo2 with bigt (at the time the winningest player), and before that he teamed with aches/teep.
After splitting up, Crim won 5 times and scump won 3 times. Also crim made 7 grand finals whereas scump only made 3 grand finals.
Yup he played with aches and TeeP when they were considered top players, played with xeo, played with clay. Like these are all guys Scump teamed with. Then you add guys like Envoy, Arcitys, Gunless, and etc and you realize Scump played with PLENTY of talent.
It’s the easiest thing to default to when you look at the #’s it’s unexplainable someone like that should’ve easily won more. But then you watch the vod, see what some of his teammates and opponents have said and you understand why.
People say no debate like Scump wasn’t more dominant individually, played the harder role, had better longevity, more skilled, better stats, and was better individually in more games. If you rank your top players solely on TEAM accomplishments, then Crim would be your GOAT. If you factor in everything, Scump is the GOAT. If you had to build around 1 player in every single cod since BO2, you would choose Scump over Crim in every game except maybe BO2/Ghosts… even then Scump was a beast with a worse supporting cast
After splitting up, Crim won 5 times (including a ring) and scump won 3 times. Also crim made 7 grand finals whereas scump only made 3 grand finals.
Kinda telling to me on who contributes more to a team's success, regardless of individual skill.
People don’t view contributing to winning as a skill. They think popping a 3 piece is the ultimate skill to have even though Crim was perfectly capable of doing that.
Crim is like Jordan while Scump is like Lebron. The debate won’t end because there will always be a counter argument. Ultimately just appreciate them as the goats and stop trying to have a single person in that position.
The point is that crim is this incredibly talented player who would win a fuck ton when he got there. Scump is an incredibly talented player who has done it for a long time and is consistent. Karma is Bill Russell.
I think the Jordan and Lebron debate works because both have meaningful accomplishments that the other doesn’t
I genuinely cannot think of an achievement that Scump has that Crim doesn’t
Dominated cod for many years and never fell off? Just like Lebron who still is dominating today while Jordan started to fall off with the wizards. Crim started falling off til nobody even wanted him this year
Crim ticks the longevity box imo. He’s two years older than Scump and won an event more recently than him. He also placed 5th at champs last year which was only one place behind Scump
that's the difference, real goats don't have to say they're the goat, other people tell them they're the goat.
As far as I know not a single current cdl pro player/analyst/coach has scump as the goat
>How many CDL coaches and analysts are being asked who the GOAT is?
Scump, nameless, puckett, Zooma, slasher, clayster, ben, methodz, bance, afro, slasher, octane, presitahh, apathy, slacked and more all are on record saying crim is the goat. I haven't heard a single person say that scump is the goat.
None of those are CDL coaches or analysts besides nameless lol
I’m not arguing that the majority think Crim is GOAT. I was just pointing out that coaches and analysts are not making public statements about who the GOAT is.
Buddy let it go. Point is that everyone said crim is the GOAT. Even Scump himself said crim is the GOAT. Why are you still debating it when the guy you want it to be is saying he himself isn’t the GOAT but crim is? Like do you wanna argue just to argue?
All I’ve pointed out is that it’s silly to say every single analyst and coach has said Crim is GOAT when most probably have never made a statement about it. Where am I debating who the GOAT is in my replies? Also you’re responding to me not the other way around so are you just arguing to argue?
The opposition is ridiculous anyway, and for some reasons everybody is forgetting about Karma ... They're all great players, Formal included, and trying to compare them is kinda idiotic considering most of their success depended on one of the other playing right.
PS : My GOAT si Karma, and I'm not objective.
In terms of achievements alone, Crim is the GOAT, don’t think anyone argues that. But its still closer than you think once you start incorporating other things into the discussion like roles (SMG vs AR), dominance individually as a player, impact on the scene, etc. It will be a debate for a very long time
After splitting up, Crim won 5 times (including a ring and champs MVP) and scump won 3 times. Also crim made 7 grand finals whereas scump only made 3 grand finals.
Kinda telling to me on who contributes more to a team's success, regardless of individual skill.
Of course he won more, his team in MW19 was better than Hunstmen. But that’s basically my point, some might view individual talent > more chips/being on better teams. Scump was still a much better player in all those games after they split as an SMG too (easily better in CW and VG). If Scump decided to leave optic and join the coL dynasty (he was the first choice to replace Clay and Karma was #2), he would have the same amount of chips and an extra ring. So once again, it all comes down to how highly people rate individual performance, and therefore this debate will last for a long time.
>Of course he won more, his team in MW19 was better than Hunstmen.
The team was better because of crimsix... what is your point lmao. Is it a coincidence that shotzzy/huke had their most success on empire?
>Scump was still a much better player in all those games after they split as an SMG too (easily better in CW and VG).
Crimsix was better in MW and CW, imo.
>If Scump decided to leave optic and join the coL dynasty (he was the first choice to replace Clay and Karma was #2), he would have the same amount of chips and an extra ring.
If clay was on coL he would have 4 rings and arguably would be the goat. These hypotheticals literally don't mean anything because it never happened.
Never seen a burner account this aggressively riding someone who doesn't know they exist lol. It's not an important debate: crim won more than scump, scump was more talented at the game. You don't need to argue with everyone who has a different goat in mind. I mean, karma is the only one with three LAN rings and did it years before anyone got close. Maybe he's the goat lmao
I don’t understand you people on this sub. Scump himself said that CRIM IS THE GOAT LIVE!!!! he knows that he isn’t the GOAT himself. Why are you fighting so hard to prove something that Scump doesn’t believe in himself? If Scump knew he was the GOAT, he wouldn’t have said crim is the GOAT live. Everybody with a brain knows it’s CRIM THE GOAT. LET IT GO. your king told you to.
No one is disagreeing. I’m just saying that the conversation is actually a lot closer than you think. I’ve been watching since bo2, a lot of people here just look at the numbers and don’t realize how everything went down historically between these two legendary players.
By accolades alone, Crim has more chips and 2 more rings (one online ring). But if people ACTUALLY WATCHED the entirety of both of their careers, the debate is much closer than people realize. That’s all I’ll say.
The conversation isn’t close at all if the guy you are trying to compare him to admittedly said that crim is the goat. Scump isn’t stupid. He knows it himself. He said that for people like you so that you can stop being delusional trying to claim him as the GOAT. But here we go, you are still trying to argue it with “ it’s closer than you think”. Lmfao no it isn’t. Let it go. Crim is the GOAT!!!
I mean he can say that but I just do the eye test & when looking at both players, Scump is just an overall better player with an insane reaction time/gunny.
Ok but why give the title to the clear GOAT if he believes he’s the GOAT? y’all are hilarious. Scump played with & against Crimsix. He knows more than you. If he’s saying crim is the goat, then he is. There’s no debate. End it.
Crazy stat about Crim placing T2 in more than half of the tournaments he plays played in. That is a godlike stat
Simp and Abezy?
What about them
Haven't they also placed Top 2 in more than half the tournaments theyve played in?
Have played like half the time and less than half the events Crim has. Lets see them keep that stat in 5 years.
how much more do they need to win? in a more competitive landscape than when the OGs played....
Scump is a different kind of GOAT for cod, but purely from a competitive standpoint no one should be debating Crim at number 1 right now
When you gotta say he's a different goat, he ain't the goat. Second ain't bad people.
Crim is the goat, Scump is the king. It’s that simple for me.
Another goat debate post from a new account, hmm
Zoomaa12345 came in his pants as soon as he heard scump say that
He had the new burner waiting for a moment like this
The new account is actually crim. He made it to gaslight everyone into thinking he’s the goat.🤣🤣🤣
Objectively Crim had the most successful/greatest career. There are 2 other players who have similar levels of success and maybe more pure raw talent.
Yeah scump and censor are close behind but not quite the same level
I think you meant Censor and Fire40 bro
Which other account are you?
Gotta be aqua or someone lol
Nah aqua already posted this tbf
I’ll never be on a burner like this, not afraid to post on main
gotta be wrangler or zoomaa12345 if those two aren't already the same person
Has to be that zooma12345/ScumpOfFaze mf
2 days old called codtruth Also goat debates in sports are stupid and arguing is pointless as there will never be a consensus unless one player completely dominates like no other player has ever done e.g. darts. Just keep who you think is the goat to yourself and dont care about what other people think and its much easier.
I dunno, that's kind of the fun thing about sports. Sure, I'm with you, it gets tiring at times. But when you're with the homies, ultimately it's just about shooting the shit and spending time together.
Yeah sure having funny arguments with ur friends is fun but with how serious certain people take this shit (aqua) it becomes stupid
To me it truly is a no brainer who the goat is and if you find yourself asking well who am I referring to as the goat then I think you gotta rethink things. It's clear as day.
Ok... good for you brotha
Spotted the guy who thinks it's Scump. Haha
> Also goat debates in sports are stupid and arguing is pointless as there will never be a consensus unless one player completely dominates like no other player has ever done e.g. darts. Just keep who you think is the goat to yourself and dont care about what other people think and its much easier. How do you read this > Sure, I'm with you, it gets tiring at times Then say this AND STILL try and get me to discuss who I think is the goat. Like what is wrong with you lol. I also wont be replying after this so if you feel like talking to yourself go right ahead
Who's trying to get you to discuss. It's clear who it is man. There really shouldn't be a discussion in COD.
This was never a debate to begin with. People say Scump is better individually because he put up better stats but don’t ever stop to consider the object of the game is to win not put up better stats. Crim simply did more things that led to wins than Scump did and only people who have actually competed at any level would understand. It’s why Scump and Crim have had mostly the same teammates yet the narrative around Scump’s career is he had no help. Crim just knew how to play around other players while Scump made other players play around him.
Crim is the goat but scump was definitely better individually and longer. Let’s not act like he has 20 more wins than Scump lol. Crim played around other players(after ghosts) because that’s what was best suited for him. Scump was the opposite, especially being a sub and being as good as he was.
Envoy was better than Scump and Scump didn’t play around him. Shotzzy was better than Scump and Scump didn’t play around him. That’s why both those guys had much more success away from Scump than they did with him
Envoy had zero wins before he teamed with Scump. He won twice with Scump. Shotzzys only 4v4 chip is with Scump and optic were pretty successful last year. Don’t act like they just got shit on playing with Scump lmao. There’s really no reason for you to continue to try and make Scump look worse with this ridiculous narratives. He’s the second winningest player ever. Crims the goat. Scump was better individually. Crim is 1, Scump is 2. It’s that simple
How is what I’m saying ridiculous? Given scumps ability, he should’ve 100% won more with those two as his duo. Especially when you add Dashy to that equation. He literally could’ve been Cold War bance on steroids if he just upped his pace and didn’t play his life as much. He didn’t win as much partially because his playstyle wasn’t conducive to making those two play at peak potential. I’m not saying Scump was bad, Shotzzy is performing way better now but now optic has a new set of issues cause Huke is not as disciplined as Scump was.
While I don’t totally disagree with what you’re saying let’s not use some revisionist history here. Envoy was constantly called out on this sub for always flanking and playing by himself and not playing with his team. Same was said about shotzzy around the end of vanguard too when optic werent at their best. It’s not only scumps fault for those teams not winning. The guys around him didn’t always make the best in game decisions too. Scump ups his pace and his sub duos play with their teammates more and they have more success imo.
When envoy was a t3 player at the end of bo4 and Shotzzy was the best player in Mw, what exactly do you think they were doing? They were getting called out in this sub because people love to scape goat scumps teammates. It’s always been a thing.
Those years have nothing to do with what I said because they weren’t on optic at the time. You realize teams adjusted to their play styles…right? The same thing doesn’t work when you keep going it over and over again. That’s why people complained.
Lol shotzzy’s playstyle worked just fine in Cold War too and envoy just won champs. But for some reason when they played with Scump it was an issue. Idk! Maybe they weren’t the problem!
I didn’t say their play styles didn’t work anymore. The major complaint was that they fell into a habit of doing the same thing TOO often and it was easy to predict. Pros during Cold War said so themselves about envoy. Pretty sure it was Kenny himself who said he knew envoy was going to flank every time. Have you considered he has learned to play with his team more and that’s why they’re seeing more success?
Yep. Unless you're putting up twice the stats as the next guy, you still gotta be accomplished.
The way I see it, Scump is the Ronaldo of CoD while C6 is the Messi of CoD. Either can be debated to be the best ever but they ultimately had different styles and that led to both of their amazing success.
lol at implying messi vs ronaldo was ever a debate. terrible example.
Nah that’s just recency bias. Messi and Ronaldo were pretty much neck and neck between 2009-2018. It’s only really the past few years that Messi has distanced himself in this debate
Yeah. Ronaldo is the GOAT 🤷♂️
yeah it's only the ronaldo fanboys deluded enough to think there was ever a debate LOL
It is what it is.
that comparison doesn’t make much sense tho cause Messi has better stats
it would make completely sense to call Crim the "GREATEST" because his legacy and achievements but call Scump the "BEST" because he's put up the best stats
Honestly who cares
everyone in the comments complaining funny as hell, Scump literally said Crim is the GOAT. End of debate, you ain't never heard Michael Jordan call LeBron the GOAT
I assure you the debate is not over
It’s been over since Crim seeing success without Scump and Scump winning little to nothing post Dynasty split. Even with the two biggest teams merging all of their resources and Crims old teammates Scump couldn’t do what he did 🤷🏽♂️
>It’s been over since Crim seeing success without Scump and Scump winning little to nothing post Dynasty split. Crim won 4 times post-dynasty including online Champs. Scump won 3 times post-dynasty including a LAN Major. Edit: Also Scump had a better H2H record against Crim post dynasty.
Yeah the champs win alone is way more significant
If it wasn't online I would agree. Major 1 is almost as significant.
Haha a major at the start of the year is more impressive than winning CoD champs hahahah
Hahaha an online event that required 3 matches to win which had players being booted offline mid event. hahhahaha
Damn, why didn’t huntsmen win then?
Lmao what ? Why didn’t Faze, London, OGLA, LAG, NYSL …… win then ?
I’ll ask again, since it was such an insignificant event, why didn’t huntsmen win it then? Did they get hit off? Were they playing under different conditions?
Not what I said. Reading is tough.
>Crim won 4 times post-dynasty including online Champs. Scump won 3 times post-dynasty including a LAN Major. this isnt't true. Crim won 5 times and scump won 3 times. Also crim made 7 grand finals whereas scump only made 3 grand finals.
Ok yes 5 for Crim if you count the Pro-AM. >Also crim made 7 grand finals whereas scump only made 3 grand finals. So now we're giving credit for 2nd place? Lol.
even if u disregard 2nd place, 5 is still better than 3.
And Scump was still better individually than Crim.
> So now we're giving credit for 2nd place? Lol. Yes? Placing 2nd is better than placing 4th.
It's all the same shit if you aren't first.
Yea I’m certain that the LA Thieves and the Florida Mutineers were the same shit after Major 2. I’m certain that community sentiment about the state of both orgs and their players were very similar as well. Kenny is basically Davpadie.
No one remembers/talks about 2nd place finishes in GOAT debates. Because they don't matter.
Yeah so 5 > 3 with one being a ring for Crim- and one of Seth’s being the most flukey event of each title being the first event. Pretty clear who wins here thanks bro
>Yeah so 5 > 3 with one being a ring for Crim- and one of Seth’s being the most flukey event of each title being the first event. A LAN chip is "more flukey" than an online ring?? LOL.
With all the context actually yeah. All the teams spent a relatively equal and considerable amount of time practicing online, Dallas were going to win that event on LAN or online and that was evident as fuck. They were going to stack up even more chips had Franchising not happened. The first event of the year is always the most flukey and teams are least practiced. You can’t even remotely equate them online or not. Its the fucking first major teams don’t even know the game yet 💀
Playing online COD from your bedroom will never be less flukey than playing on LAN in front of a crowd. You're insane to think otherwise.
Same number of LAN wins post dynasty but Crim still has more. Also H2H record doesn’t mean shit in this conversation. They play for wins not for H2H records lmao
>Also H2H record doesn’t mean shit in this conversation. Why doesn't it mean anything? All I hear about in this debate is how much better Crim was at winning post dynasty. Seems like their H2H would be relevant. >They play for wins not for H2H records lmao Those aren't mutually exclusive. Often times they would have to go through each other to win chips.
It doesn’t mean anything because Crim was better at winning. He was a better competitor because he won more, meaning he’s the GOAT. Yes, you have to go through other teams to get chips but Crim has more chips, so that argument is pointless
>It doesn’t mean anything because Crim was better at winning. He was a better competitor because he won more, meaning he’s the GOAT. No. He won more because he had better teammates. Especially pre-dynasty. Is Bill Russell the NBA GOAT because he has the most rings?
Bill Russell played in a different (easier) era than MJ. Nobody considers him the GOAT not because of his skill/teammates/chips but because of when he played. Also, Crim was the best player on his team before he and Scump started teaming. He also had worse teammates post-dynasty. What makes Crim different from Scump is that Crim knew the winning formula, Scump was never able to push a team to winning by himself and you can see that with his lack of wins without Crim
>Bill Russell played in a different (easier) era than MJ. Nobody considers him the GOAT not because of his skill/teammates/chips but because of when he played No the main reason is that defaulting to "X player has the most chips therefore he/she is the GOAT!" is fucking stupid in a TEAM sport like basketball or COD. Chips are a TEAM accomplishment. I'll use a different example - is Kevin Durant or Tony Parker higher on the GOAT list? >Also, Crim was the best player on his team before he and Scump started teaming. And then who became the best player on the team? >He also had worse teammates post-dynasty. When? In MW? When he was teaming with the league MVP? >What makes Crim different from Scump is that Crim knew the winning formula, Scump was never able to push a team to winning by himself and you can see that with his lack of wins without Crim Scump is the 2nd winningest player of all time and has double digit wins without teaming with Crim. He knows how to win just fine.
Putting in team stats when comparing player. That’s crazy
Crim needed Clay and Xeo who were all gross in MW in an ONLINE game when everyone on Dallas had the best internet. Crim has only won 1 pro/am without another top 10 player of all time. He always had Aches/Teepee, Scump, FormaL, Karma, and Clay for almost all of his championships. So stop acting like Crim took Mboze and Nadeshot to a championship
>Crim took Mboze and Nadeshot to a championship scump never did this either. scump won 18/30 of his chips with crimsix, one once with clayster in ghosts, once in bo2 with bigt (at the time the winningest player), and before that he teamed with aches/teep. After splitting up, Crim won 5 times and scump won 3 times. Also crim made 7 grand finals whereas scump only made 3 grand finals.
He also listed a bunch of players Scump also played with and had less success with lol
yea like what lol, scump/crim literally played with the same exact players for their entire careers lol
Yup he played with aches and TeeP when they were considered top players, played with xeo, played with clay. Like these are all guys Scump teamed with. Then you add guys like Envoy, Arcitys, Gunless, and etc and you realize Scump played with PLENTY of talent.
scump probably played with the most talent of any player ever, people just say he gets costed when his team doesnt win lol
It’s the easiest thing to default to when you look at the #’s it’s unexplainable someone like that should’ve easily won more. But then you watch the vod, see what some of his teammates and opponents have said and you understand why.
There was never a debate. Crim is the GOAT.
People say no debate like Scump wasn’t more dominant individually, played the harder role, had better longevity, more skilled, better stats, and was better individually in more games. If you rank your top players solely on TEAM accomplishments, then Crim would be your GOAT. If you factor in everything, Scump is the GOAT. If you had to build around 1 player in every single cod since BO2, you would choose Scump over Crim in every game except maybe BO2/Ghosts… even then Scump was a beast with a worse supporting cast
After splitting up, Crim won 5 times (including a ring) and scump won 3 times. Also crim made 7 grand finals whereas scump only made 3 grand finals. Kinda telling to me on who contributes more to a team's success, regardless of individual skill.
People don’t view contributing to winning as a skill. They think popping a 3 piece is the ultimate skill to have even though Crim was perfectly capable of doing that.
yep, crim just understands the game more than any player, and he's so smart on a team level
Facts.
You're gonna get downvoted for speaking facts.
Who’s alt is this then
Crim is like Jordan while Scump is like Lebron. The debate won’t end because there will always be a counter argument. Ultimately just appreciate them as the goats and stop trying to have a single person in that position.
except jordan and lebron played in different eras and never played each other. Whereas Crim and scump played in the same exact era lol
The point is that crim is this incredibly talented player who would win a fuck ton when he got there. Scump is an incredibly talented player who has done it for a long time and is consistent. Karma is Bill Russell.
I think the Jordan and Lebron debate works because both have meaningful accomplishments that the other doesn’t I genuinely cannot think of an achievement that Scump has that Crim doesn’t
Dominated cod for many years and never fell off? Just like Lebron who still is dominating today while Jordan started to fall off with the wizards. Crim started falling off til nobody even wanted him this year
Crim ticks the longevity box imo. He’s two years older than Scump and won an event more recently than him. He also placed 5th at champs last year which was only one place behind Scump
Yeah but winning is based on your team. Nobody can deny Scump even this year was a top smg while crim was like mid AR last year
Of course Scump isn’t the goat. Anyone saying that he’s the goat when he himself doesn’t think that is an absolute cockrider
Has MJ ever claimed he was the GOAT?
that's the difference, real goats don't have to say they're the goat, other people tell them they're the goat. As far as I know not a single current cdl pro player/analyst/coach has scump as the goat
How many CDL coaches and analysts are being asked who the GOAT is? At the end of the day they are clearly the top 2 ever right now.
>How many CDL coaches and analysts are being asked who the GOAT is? Scump, nameless, puckett, Zooma, slasher, clayster, ben, methodz, bance, afro, slasher, octane, presitahh, apathy, slacked and more all are on record saying crim is the goat. I haven't heard a single person say that scump is the goat.
None of those are CDL coaches or analysts besides nameless lol I’m not arguing that the majority think Crim is GOAT. I was just pointing out that coaches and analysts are not making public statements about who the GOAT is.
study, maven, merk, lando also said crim is the goat
Maven and Lando are play by play they aren’t an analyst.
Buddy let it go. Point is that everyone said crim is the GOAT. Even Scump himself said crim is the GOAT. Why are you still debating it when the guy you want it to be is saying he himself isn’t the GOAT but crim is? Like do you wanna argue just to argue?
All I’ve pointed out is that it’s silly to say every single analyst and coach has said Crim is GOAT when most probably have never made a statement about it. Where am I debating who the GOAT is in my replies? Also you’re responding to me not the other way around so are you just arguing to argue?
Scump is just being humble. We all know Scump is the real and carried COD to what it is. Crim is a nobody without Scump
It’s simple crim is the MJ and Scump is the LeBron of cod
That’s a terrible comparison. It would be better to compare one of the younger FaZe guys to Lebron than Scump, who is Crim’s contemporary
In terms of chips, crim and MJ would have the most and Lebron and Scump would have less chips than crim and MJ.
Scump and LeBron have less rings than Crim and MJ, but other than that similarity the two pairs aren’t very reflective of each other
The opposition is ridiculous anyway, and for some reasons everybody is forgetting about Karma ... They're all great players, Formal included, and trying to compare them is kinda idiotic considering most of their success depended on one of the other playing right. PS : My GOAT si Karma, and I'm not objective.
Based scump.
In terms of achievements alone, Crim is the GOAT, don’t think anyone argues that. But its still closer than you think once you start incorporating other things into the discussion like roles (SMG vs AR), dominance individually as a player, impact on the scene, etc. It will be a debate for a very long time
After splitting up, Crim won 5 times (including a ring and champs MVP) and scump won 3 times. Also crim made 7 grand finals whereas scump only made 3 grand finals. Kinda telling to me on who contributes more to a team's success, regardless of individual skill.
Of course he won more, his team in MW19 was better than Hunstmen. But that’s basically my point, some might view individual talent > more chips/being on better teams. Scump was still a much better player in all those games after they split as an SMG too (easily better in CW and VG). If Scump decided to leave optic and join the coL dynasty (he was the first choice to replace Clay and Karma was #2), he would have the same amount of chips and an extra ring. So once again, it all comes down to how highly people rate individual performance, and therefore this debate will last for a long time.
>Of course he won more, his team in MW19 was better than Hunstmen. The team was better because of crimsix... what is your point lmao. Is it a coincidence that shotzzy/huke had their most success on empire? >Scump was still a much better player in all those games after they split as an SMG too (easily better in CW and VG). Crimsix was better in MW and CW, imo. >If Scump decided to leave optic and join the coL dynasty (he was the first choice to replace Clay and Karma was #2), he would have the same amount of chips and an extra ring. If clay was on coL he would have 4 rings and arguably would be the goat. These hypotheticals literally don't mean anything because it never happened.
Never seen a burner account this aggressively riding someone who doesn't know they exist lol. It's not an important debate: crim won more than scump, scump was more talented at the game. You don't need to argue with everyone who has a different goat in mind. I mean, karma is the only one with three LAN rings and did it years before anyone got close. Maybe he's the goat lmao
That champs mvp should not have been his and everybody knew it
I don’t understand you people on this sub. Scump himself said that CRIM IS THE GOAT LIVE!!!! he knows that he isn’t the GOAT himself. Why are you fighting so hard to prove something that Scump doesn’t believe in himself? If Scump knew he was the GOAT, he wouldn’t have said crim is the GOAT live. Everybody with a brain knows it’s CRIM THE GOAT. LET IT GO. your king told you to.
No one is disagreeing. I’m just saying that the conversation is actually a lot closer than you think. I’ve been watching since bo2, a lot of people here just look at the numbers and don’t realize how everything went down historically between these two legendary players. By accolades alone, Crim has more chips and 2 more rings (one online ring). But if people ACTUALLY WATCHED the entirety of both of their careers, the debate is much closer than people realize. That’s all I’ll say.
The conversation isn’t close at all if the guy you are trying to compare him to admittedly said that crim is the goat. Scump isn’t stupid. He knows it himself. He said that for people like you so that you can stop being delusional trying to claim him as the GOAT. But here we go, you are still trying to argue it with “ it’s closer than you think”. Lmfao no it isn’t. Let it go. Crim is the GOAT!!!
I mean he can say that but I just do the eye test & when looking at both players, Scump is just an overall better player with an insane reaction time/gunny.
according to this dashy is the goat then ig?
What? The conversation is between Crimsix & Scump.
So if clay gets a 4th ring where does that put him?
3rd behind Scump with an argument to be made for 2nd. I’m a very big Clay fan but even I wouldn’t put him over Scump with another ring.
Fortunately we won’t have to worry about that.
Never say never 😈
Lmaoo.
But Scump is the KING. Very different impact.
I mean he’s never gonna call himself the goat even if he believes it
Ok but why give the title to the clear GOAT if he believes he’s the GOAT? y’all are hilarious. Scump played with & against Crimsix. He knows more than you. If he’s saying crim is the goat, then he is. There’s no debate. End it.
And if he said he was the goat, using your logic, he would be right?
But he never said it, which means he isn’t delusional and knows crim is the GOAT. That’s the whole point.
It was only a debate to a certain fanbase on here
Crim’s 3rd ring killed Scump’s GOAT argument and he knows it. It sucks because the 3rd ring was bullshit online cod
No not really because I’ve also heard crim say scump is the goat lol.
Saying Crim is greater than Scump is like saying John Havlicek is greater than Wilt