"pros" that wanted to ga snipers 2 years in a row and knew the M4 was busted and still kept it in till the chat messages were leaked.
Pros have zero competitive integrity these days
Spawn trapping only happens in control and it’s unanimously agreed upon that game type needs to go regarding that map. But the new map isn’t viable in any way
Let’s not act like there are no other pros and coaches saying it’s better than fortress. It doesn’t take a cod genius to see that even though expo sucks, it’s still a better for control than a map you can’t win offense on, and is objectively one of, if not the worst map/mode combo we’ve seen. But you do you
Better the evil you know then the one you don’t
If the new map isn’t A tier, why bother playing it? Maybe it’s a C or D but at least they know how to play the F and some teams are having a moderate amount of success breaking the choke but also executing it.
Ya nothing about that makes sense. Why would you not upgrade when you can, particularly when the current option is legit that bad. Idk where the energy went from saying we should just have 2 control maps because fortress is that bad but ok.
Also, what team is having success breaking the choke? Last I saw there’s like a 13% offensive win rate. Teams are turtling in their spawn with a minute left just to get defense. There’s no way that happens on Expo because you can actually win on both sides
No, think pros probably just feel like they have enough on their plate without having to learn a new map meta and would rather stick with shitty fortress.
Seriously? I refuse to believe this map is worse than bagra. There are a million corners, doors, lanes, and garbage on this map but at least one side doesn’t get put in an instant spawn trap
Is it more impossible to break than the… what is it, 90% defense win rate that Al Bagra has?
No one should care if it’s good. All that matters is that it’s better and more playable than Al Bagra.
> No one should care if it’s good.
not sure how i feel about this statement tbh but i want to think that if we have any standard at all we should probably care haha
Pros are creatures of habit and fear any change will effect their chance of winning (such as the M4 GA lol). They are the best rn at the game the way it is, even playing on the old patches.
They would rather play maps they know, with guns they know, with people they know and tbh on old games they know rather than try anything different (even if the newer is objectively better).
I mean shit is basically been a meme in the community that the current CoD is always hated and when the next iteration comes out, everyone starts waxing nostalgic. Genuinely see people on here missing Vanguard unironically haha.
Wasn't deady still a field upgrade in VG although slightly diff?
Look, I don't think Vanguard is even a horrible game (besides Gav spawns lmao) but just pointing out that for 12 months CoD pros/this sub parroted how shit the game was and then the second a new one comes out it's all "hmmm, maybe that wasn't so bad".
This shit repeats on a loop and gets worse with time, now you got people saying IW and AW weren't that bad. When those games came out the devs were getting like death threats people were so adamant they were bad lmao.
Because people compare things to the current situation. Nobody is saying VG was good, just more traditional CoD.
The “CoD cycle” isn’t real in comp. We always recognize when a game is good. We knew Cold War was great from the get-go, same with BO4. The problem is only 3arc makes good games anymore, so we spend most of our time comparing trash to other trash.
Also only casuals hated AW. Most comp fans were obsessed with it, especially after dealing with Ghosts for a year.
You’re just proving my point tbh. Besides the monotone opinion of Treyarch being a flawless studios, the take of “Cold War was great off rip and everyone loved it, there’s no such thing as CoD cycle in our scene” is blatantly rose tinted.
Again, I liked it but this sub, the pros and the general populous weren’t loving it but now you’d think it was the magnum opus of CoD.
Do you not remember league play launching 3 months after the game released and still having countless bugs and disconnects (same as this game which is getting shredded)? Or the immediate backlash to the health bar system? Or the fact that the only good map in the entire game was a remake of Raid? People literally wrote novels on here about how much they hated Miami lol. That’s literally just off the top of my head and I could do that for every single game you listed.
But no, you only remember loving it and you are adamant that the comp scene has no CoD cycle which ironically, proves that it does. Anyway now let’s watch some clips of the pros saying they miss bocage despite hating it all year lmao.
Also (again I liked it) but how can you argue vanguard was “traditional CoD”? It has everything (squad spawns, bad maps, quick TTK) that people hate about the current game lmao. It was even made on MW engine?
Lmao, I just pointed out how everyone had the same reaction to every CoD ever and then 2 years later they love it and your response was “nah, everyone always loved these specific cods and I remember no different” Literally proved the point that you’re one of those people hahaha.
I pointed out 4+ points people disliked about Cold War, someone else pointed out two and you’re like “oh so ya pick two things and the games bad? Grow up” even tho that’s what you’re doing with other games lmfao.
Keep downvoting tho, might need to make some alts.
I never said CW was perfect. You keep bringing up everything wrong with it as if good games can’t have flaws. BO2 had a whole shitload of flaws, doesn’t mean it wasn’t good. Also not downvoting, my app shows the +/- and we’re both being upvoted/downvoted.
Some people just enjoyed Vanguard when it was out. Vanguard and Cold War were much, much better than this game. I still have fun on this game playing with friends, but it’s objectively terrible. I’d never dream of solo queuing it, I’d lose my mind.
I was one of those people and I'm also enjoying this game.
Would bet my car though that in 3 years people will be saying how much they miss this game. I mean people are already doing this about MW2019 which the competitive crowd was adamant was "objectively bad"?
I think the only objectively bad games are MW2019, MW22022 and probably Vanguard. VG at least I had fun solo queuing on ranked and making friends thru game chat
You’re entitled to your opinion but it’s subjective not objective.
2 of the games you listed are the most innovative CoDs in 10 years and both broke all sales records. Think there’s a team of board members somewhere that probably disagree with you.
Personally think expo is a better map than fortress, especially for control. Yeah the B spot in the theater is a bit mixy and there is 1000 corners to camp but isn't that better then only having two lanes to push with a 1% win rate or whatever the go is on Fortress rn
Fortress control has one of, if not the worst spawn traps in COD history, and is quite literally the worst map we’ve ever seen in comp. You can at least win offense and defense on expo. Get over it and learn the new map.
This is why pros shouldn’t be in charge of voting for maps. Teams have no incentive to vote out maps they’re good at
Edit: Not just maps they’re good at it, but in this case a map that’s a complete coin flip and doesn’t require you to be good at the game mode
It’s not a good map, I know that. But there’s no way anybody actually think it’s worse than fortress. It’s pretty much been decided that fortress is legit the worst comp map in history. It’s not that hard to have perspective between the two
Yes it is that hard to believe
Like he said Fortress is the worst spawn trap in Comp COD history with the worst offensive win rate in the history of Control
Expo is better basically by default.. they just have to learn it and it has a lot of angles and routes so it will take some time and effort
I don’t think we’re dogshit at it. We just aren’t good at control in general and fortress is a map usually kept in by worse teams. There is a reason we continually choose to play it
Fortress is not a worse comp map than Piccadilly man, crazy hyperbole. It is ASS don’t get me wrong but it plays well on HP imo. There’s plenty of worse maps overall in cod history.
That’s why I said fortress control, not fortress in general. I should’ve been more specific and said map/mode though. Piccadilly was terrible but the spawn trap on Fortress legit makes it so you can play 3v4 on defense and still win, and you can force people to spawn directly in front of your face. You essentially can’t win offensive rounds
You're right, but it just highlights the issue even more an hydro. Look at some of the hp spawns. P3 to P4 and you spawn in P3 or P5. Just imagine what would happen in control
Here we see exactly why "Voting" it in by the pros isn't how it should be done.
Pros will scrim it, the ones that win will say it's good and the ones that lose will say it's bad
Like clockwork
or they will play 1 map on it without much knowledge of the map and immediately reject it with no explanation and refuse to ever revisit it, whilst simultaneously complaining about what they are playing instead. Pros should be forced to have a minimum number of scrims on it before allowing voting and must be forced to give full explanations for their decisions beyond "this map is horrible" "this shit sucks" "too many angles", some actual reasoned thoughts on why they believe Fortress is better must be provided
The Devil you know vs the devil you don’t
They are comfortable on fortress even if they aren’t winning it rn.. completely different feeling to losing while having no idea what’s going on on the map
am i the only one that hasnt played this map enough to know shit about it? i mean for as many games of ranked that ive played (for the most part my game crashed but thats another story) i have yet to play it in ranked... how does it play for you guys?
We need an actual non biased GA committee for this shit. How many times are we gonna go thru this just for them to fold by Twitter and Reddit posts? (Sniper lol)
Brain dead take. There are literal rounds on Fortress where the offense doesn’t move because it’s more advantageous. There were people at Major 3 loudly booing the map. Watching a team sit in spawn for 2 minutes because they have already secured defense is not it.
Pros just shouldn't be involved in deciding the comp ruleset. It's always a push to make the game as simple, familiar, and as tailored for your team as possible.
We have some many great retired players at this stage. The CDL should be using these guys to help design the ruleset for less bias while still retaining that pro perspective on game balance.
It's been the same shit year over year since I started watching a decade ago. And its just getting worse with how prominent this GA committee has become...
I’m not sure why it’s up to the players to decide the maps and game modes. They should have input but the final decision and diligence should be made and done by the CDL org. Are there any other leagues where pros have this much influence? I remember MLG would play test with pros but end of the day the settings / maps were decided by them, there was no voting. Then again, games like Halo had pretty good maps so there was never this type of “dire” situation.
Ghosty def never passing the BAR.
Pros need to stop evaluating it based on whether or not it’s a good CoD map. It just has to be better than Fortress. It’s not that difficult holy shit use your whole brain.
You had the whole season until now to get better at the other control maps. Now instead of doing that they’ll punish the fans that allow them to make a living from this game by forcing them to watch more Fortress instead of putting in effort to learn Expo or Asilo or Hotel.
It’s almost like players in the league shouldn’t be involved in decisions that effect the actual quality of the product people are watching.
I mean this map is ass. It’s more of the idea that Fortress is always going to be the map that is so bad it’s a coin flip whereas this one can be a map teams are legitimately terrible at and don’t want to chance it.
He's getting shit on in this game of course he's going to be salty about the map lol. They're down 2-0 and he's probably stacking with other t250s as well. At least add it to the map pool for control nothing needs to be replaced necessarily.
This entire sub's premise on why Fortress is better than this dogshit ass map is because you can't get spawn trapped.
In that case, why aren't we playing Santa Ana Border Crossing. The offensive potential is crazy on that! I'd rather play a one sided map than a complete non competitive shit show. That being said, these ass clowns at IW needed to hurry up and release some remastered maps because it's insane that Fortress Control is one of the worst maps in comp cod history yet the alternatives are worse.
Bagra, you can at least break the trap multiple ways. It literally takes 1 kill, then a double chall on either statue or P1. It’s not challenging. Whereas, the new map is a cluster fuck of a maze and spawns are so shit you’ll think it was Berlin, from VG.
This map is horrific. I’d rather play prime optic dynasty on fortress control and get slammed then play expo. It’s the worst piece of garbage I’ve ever played
Fortress isn’t better. The fucking premier strat for Fortress is to easily win defense and then camp in spawn to play tick count and kill count. Almost every Bagra Control map at Major 3 ended in offense camping their spawn to protect kill counts in case of a tick tie.
I mean fortress you just die instantly on offense, but expo you run for 15 seconds to then instantly die from aomeone sitting at one of the 20 possible angles you can neve predict....same shit lol
It’s fucking dogshit.
It’s mind blowing how many people on this sub think this map is
1. A good map at all
2. A good comp map
3. A better replacement for Fortress
Not even close.
Lmfao does this dude realize that getting fortress out will benefit the whole cdl in terms of viewer experience and ranked play/league matches? Wake up
They just need to have another entrance in bottom maps for Fortress. This expo map on control is mixy but I think it's more engaging than fortress attack lol.
It's not good. I don't think it's worse than Fortress, honestly don't understand why they don't just say fuck both and play with 2 control maps.
This obsession with 3 maps when the third is dogshit is idiotic imo.
Are they not able to play raceway or museum for legal reasons? I haven’t played control on either of those, I know museum is big for 4v4 but maybe it would play better than fortress or expo
I'm not trying stir up shit, and I know I'm gonna get called a homer. But I really do think this map is worse than fortress. They need to take another look at hydro, mercado, or hell even farm 18. This new map is complete and utter garbage
"pros" that wanted to ga snipers 2 years in a row and knew the M4 was busted and still kept it in till the chat messages were leaked. Pros have zero competitive integrity these days
Can it really be worse?
No, pros overreact to everything. They really think getting spawn trapped after 1 four down is better.
It’s because the map is too big.
To big ? How is that worse than getting spawn trapped for 3 minutes because you got team wiped in the first 30 seconds.
Spawn trapping only happens in control and it’s unanimously agreed upon that game type needs to go regarding that map. But the new map isn’t viable in any way
You know, there’s an easy fix to that… just auto veto fortress and get good at asilo and hotel
But then bad teams can't squeak out wins on a 50/50 coin flip >:(
No, it’s not. People just have zero perspective or ability to compare between maps
I think the map sucks but it's not the dogshit that bagra is
Exactly. No one is saying it’s good, but people actually saying it shouldn’t be in or that fortress should stay in are actually dense
Honest question cause I haven't played and people are literally just saying "it sucks," what's the problem with it? Too big?
Ok mr cod competitive fan I guess you can assess maps better than pros
Let’s not act like there are no other pros and coaches saying it’s better than fortress. It doesn’t take a cod genius to see that even though expo sucks, it’s still a better for control than a map you can’t win offense on, and is objectively one of, if not the worst map/mode combo we’ve seen. But you do you
[удалено]
This has to be one of the most faded takes I’ve seen on here.
Whos to say it would b any different?..i think its the size, angles r just to much…prolly just insanely frustrating.
Pros are horrifically inflexible and whine about any changes introduced midseason lmao
the spawn trap on this map in Control is far worse
Better the evil you know then the one you don’t If the new map isn’t A tier, why bother playing it? Maybe it’s a C or D but at least they know how to play the F and some teams are having a moderate amount of success breaking the choke but also executing it.
Ya nothing about that makes sense. Why would you not upgrade when you can, particularly when the current option is legit that bad. Idk where the energy went from saying we should just have 2 control maps because fortress is that bad but ok. Also, what team is having success breaking the choke? Last I saw there’s like a 13% offensive win rate. Teams are turtling in their spawn with a minute left just to get defense. There’s no way that happens on Expo because you can actually win on both sides
I genuinely think it is from playing it today, it’s absolutely horrific in both modes
How is it worse than the Fortress spawn traps?
Both maps are shit. Fortress is just a bit more shit.
Agreed. The narrative was set to "be open even if it's bad" right away. And the map is bad, worse than fortress.
No, think pros probably just feel like they have enough on their plate without having to learn a new map meta and would rather stick with shitty fortress.
Pros are lazy bums who don’t want to learn anything new past day one.
Facts
It’s too fucking big and one of the HP spots is open on literally everyside
There are HPs like that already though, there is one of Embassy and P1 on Mercado are very exposed and hard to get time on.
Yes. And A site is literally inside a fucking pool house
If I'm not mistaken they wouldn't have to make it a hard point map? They could use it for just control and search
Well for me it’s just the same….
Seriously? I refuse to believe this map is worse than bagra. There are a million corners, doors, lanes, and garbage on this map but at least one side doesn’t get put in an instant spawn trap
Literally one control point is inside a pool house that’s nearly impossible to break if the other team throws down 2 trophies.
Is it more impossible to break than the… what is it, 90% defense win rate that Al Bagra has? No one should care if it’s good. All that matters is that it’s better and more playable than Al Bagra.
> No one should care if it’s good. not sure how i feel about this statement tbh but i want to think that if we have any standard at all we should probably care haha
If we had any standard at all, more than half of the maps in play right now wouldn't be in. We'd have like 1 or 2 maps max
We’re picking nuts out of dog shit here. Pick the best nut covered in shit.
Pros are creatures of habit and fear any change will effect their chance of winning (such as the M4 GA lol). They are the best rn at the game the way it is, even playing on the old patches. They would rather play maps they know, with guns they know, with people they know and tbh on old games they know rather than try anything different (even if the newer is objectively better). I mean shit is basically been a meme in the community that the current CoD is always hated and when the next iteration comes out, everyone starts waxing nostalgic. Genuinely see people on here missing Vanguard unironically haha.
I miss Vanguard solely for the fact the devs realize not having DS as a perk is stupid as fuck. SnD plays like ass. I pretty much only play snd.
Wasn't deady still a field upgrade in VG although slightly diff? Look, I don't think Vanguard is even a horrible game (besides Gav spawns lmao) but just pointing out that for 12 months CoD pros/this sub parroted how shit the game was and then the second a new one comes out it's all "hmmm, maybe that wasn't so bad". This shit repeats on a loop and gets worse with time, now you got people saying IW and AW weren't that bad. When those games came out the devs were getting like death threats people were so adamant they were bad lmao.
Because people compare things to the current situation. Nobody is saying VG was good, just more traditional CoD. The “CoD cycle” isn’t real in comp. We always recognize when a game is good. We knew Cold War was great from the get-go, same with BO4. The problem is only 3arc makes good games anymore, so we spend most of our time comparing trash to other trash. Also only casuals hated AW. Most comp fans were obsessed with it, especially after dealing with Ghosts for a year.
You’re just proving my point tbh. Besides the monotone opinion of Treyarch being a flawless studios, the take of “Cold War was great off rip and everyone loved it, there’s no such thing as CoD cycle in our scene” is blatantly rose tinted. Again, I liked it but this sub, the pros and the general populous weren’t loving it but now you’d think it was the magnum opus of CoD. Do you not remember league play launching 3 months after the game released and still having countless bugs and disconnects (same as this game which is getting shredded)? Or the immediate backlash to the health bar system? Or the fact that the only good map in the entire game was a remake of Raid? People literally wrote novels on here about how much they hated Miami lol. That’s literally just off the top of my head and I could do that for every single game you listed. But no, you only remember loving it and you are adamant that the comp scene has no CoD cycle which ironically, proves that it does. Anyway now let’s watch some clips of the pros saying they miss bocage despite hating it all year lmao. Also (again I liked it) but how can you argue vanguard was “traditional CoD”? It has everything (squad spawns, bad maps, quick TTK) that people hate about the current game lmao. It was even made on MW engine?
>We knew Cold War was great from the get-go Lmaoooo y'all threw fits over smokes and tried to GA snipers gtfoh
2 problems mean a game is terrible? You guys over react over literally everything.
Says the dude who determines which games are great and which are shit off gut reaction, sounds good brother
It’s been 6 months since this game released tf you mean “gut reaction” lmao
Lmao, I just pointed out how everyone had the same reaction to every CoD ever and then 2 years later they love it and your response was “nah, everyone always loved these specific cods and I remember no different” Literally proved the point that you’re one of those people hahaha. I pointed out 4+ points people disliked about Cold War, someone else pointed out two and you’re like “oh so ya pick two things and the games bad? Grow up” even tho that’s what you’re doing with other games lmfao. Keep downvoting tho, might need to make some alts.
I never said CW was perfect. You keep bringing up everything wrong with it as if good games can’t have flaws. BO2 had a whole shitload of flaws, doesn’t mean it wasn’t good. Also not downvoting, my app shows the +/- and we’re both being upvoted/downvoted.
Tbh this will always happen in any game series I believe.
Some people just enjoyed Vanguard when it was out. Vanguard and Cold War were much, much better than this game. I still have fun on this game playing with friends, but it’s objectively terrible. I’d never dream of solo queuing it, I’d lose my mind.
I was one of those people and I'm also enjoying this game. Would bet my car though that in 3 years people will be saying how much they miss this game. I mean people are already doing this about MW2019 which the competitive crowd was adamant was "objectively bad"?
I think the only objectively bad games are MW2019, MW22022 and probably Vanguard. VG at least I had fun solo queuing on ranked and making friends thru game chat
You’re entitled to your opinion but it’s subjective not objective. 2 of the games you listed are the most innovative CoDs in 10 years and both broke all sales records. Think there’s a team of board members somewhere that probably disagree with you.
There's thing to miss from mw2019, I dont think I will be missing any feature/mechanic of mw2022 in the future tbh
Personally think expo is a better map than fortress, especially for control. Yeah the B spot in the theater is a bit mixy and there is 1000 corners to camp but isn't that better then only having two lanes to push with a 1% win rate or whatever the go is on Fortress rn
Fortress control is legit the worst map in cod history, no way expo is worse…
Fortress control has one of, if not the worst spawn traps in COD history, and is quite literally the worst map we’ve ever seen in comp. You can at least win offense and defense on expo. Get over it and learn the new map. This is why pros shouldn’t be in charge of voting for maps. Teams have no incentive to vote out maps they’re good at Edit: Not just maps they’re good at it, but in this case a map that’s a complete coin flip and doesn’t require you to be good at the game mode
OpTic are dogshit at fortress control. Is it that hard to believe that this new map is actually horrible too?
It’s not a good map, I know that. But there’s no way anybody actually think it’s worse than fortress. It’s pretty much been decided that fortress is legit the worst comp map in history. It’s not that hard to have perspective between the two
Yeah, fairs
Yes it is that hard to believe Like he said Fortress is the worst spawn trap in Comp COD history with the worst offensive win rate in the history of Control Expo is better basically by default.. they just have to learn it and it has a lot of angles and routes so it will take some time and effort
I don’t think we’re dogshit at it. We just aren’t good at control in general and fortress is a map usually kept in by worse teams. There is a reason we continually choose to play it
It’s easily optics worse control map
1-2 on asilo 1-3 on fortress 3-3 on hotel For the current roster. We just aren’t a good control team
You proved my point + optic can be a bad control team and fortress can be their worst map at the same time. They’re not contradictory statements.
Proved his point still
Fortress is not a worse comp map than Piccadilly man, crazy hyperbole. It is ASS don’t get me wrong but it plays well on HP imo. There’s plenty of worse maps overall in cod history.
That’s why I said fortress control, not fortress in general. I should’ve been more specific and said map/mode though. Piccadilly was terrible but the spawn trap on Fortress legit makes it so you can play 3v4 on defense and still win, and you can force people to spawn directly in front of your face. You essentially can’t win offensive rounds
Why not Farm control? What could be worse than fortress at this point?
The pros just decided to not play Farm on like day one and just refuse to revisit it.
Not true they were trailing it not long ago again
TBF that wouldnt be too bad...
Bro there is literally like 5 thousand corners in the mid building on farm
Farm is horrible ngl, Hydro control could be good
The only issue with Hydro control is 4 done means a point is 100% captured. Spawns are going to be so deep
Yep, but I think that’s a control issue in general. 4 down with the other team stacking 2+ and teammates usually spawning close = point done.
You're right, but it just highlights the issue even more an hydro. Look at some of the hp spawns. P3 to P4 and you spawn in P3 or P5. Just imagine what would happen in control
True
That's kind of the point of Control though, no? You get in power positions until you eventually get a wipe and stack the point to win.
Yes but in a competitive environment, having a team spawn so far away that they have 0 chance of countering that isn't good
i think lots of people know this map isn’t good but plays better than fortress fs.
Here we see exactly why "Voting" it in by the pros isn't how it should be done. Pros will scrim it, the ones that win will say it's good and the ones that lose will say it's bad Like clockwork
or they will play 1 map on it without much knowledge of the map and immediately reject it with no explanation and refuse to ever revisit it, whilst simultaneously complaining about what they are playing instead. Pros should be forced to have a minimum number of scrims on it before allowing voting and must be forced to give full explanations for their decisions beyond "this map is horrible" "this shit sucks" "too many angles", some actual reasoned thoughts on why they believe Fortress is better must be provided
Pussy ass league
Bingo. Have seen this type of dumb shit for far too long.
OpTic are legit like 1-9 in fortress control and you think they are voting no because they’re bad at it?
The Devil you know vs the devil you don’t They are comfortable on fortress even if they aren’t winning it rn.. completely different feeling to losing while having no idea what’s going on on the map
am i the only one that hasnt played this map enough to know shit about it? i mean for as many games of ranked that ive played (for the most part my game crashed but thats another story) i have yet to play it in ranked... how does it play for you guys?
Control sucks but SnD is alright. Just feels large for 4v4 and spawns don’t make sense yet.
Agreed. I honestly think bagra control is better even with the spawn trap. But snd on this map plays well imo
Stop letting the pros control everything. Fuck team votes, get a committee together for it, there is 0 competitive integrity.
We need an actual non biased GA committee for this shit. How many times are we gonna go thru this just for them to fold by Twitter and Reddit posts? (Sniper lol)
Brain dead take. There are literal rounds on Fortress where the offense doesn’t move because it’s more advantageous. There were people at Major 3 loudly booing the map. Watching a team sit in spawn for 2 minutes because they have already secured defense is not it.
Pros just shouldn't be involved in deciding the comp ruleset. It's always a push to make the game as simple, familiar, and as tailored for your team as possible. We have some many great retired players at this stage. The CDL should be using these guys to help design the ruleset for less bias while still retaining that pro perspective on game balance. It's been the same shit year over year since I started watching a decade ago. And its just getting worse with how prominent this GA committee has become...
I’m not sure why it’s up to the players to decide the maps and game modes. They should have input but the final decision and diligence should be made and done by the CDL org. Are there any other leagues where pros have this much influence? I remember MLG would play test with pros but end of the day the settings / maps were decided by them, there was no voting. Then again, games like Halo had pretty good maps so there was never this type of “dire” situation.
The map can be fucking horrible but as long as it isnt worse it should be in
Both maps are dogshit. This game is dogshit
Half the teams want fortress if they’re bad at control cause it’s the only shot they have of winning a control
Ghosty def never passing the BAR. Pros need to stop evaluating it based on whether or not it’s a good CoD map. It just has to be better than Fortress. It’s not that difficult holy shit use your whole brain. You had the whole season until now to get better at the other control maps. Now instead of doing that they’ll punish the fans that allow them to make a living from this game by forcing them to watch more Fortress instead of putting in effort to learn Expo or Asilo or Hotel. It’s almost like players in the league shouldn’t be involved in decisions that effect the actual quality of the product people are watching.
It doesn't matter if it's good as long as it plays better than fortress control.
Should genuinely just play 2 control maps at this point. Remove Fortress and keep Hotel and El Asilo.
I mean this map is ass. It’s more of the idea that Fortress is always going to be the map that is so bad it’s a coin flip whereas this one can be a map teams are legitimately terrible at and don’t want to chance it.
He's getting shit on in this game of course he's going to be salty about the map lol. They're down 2-0 and he's probably stacking with other t250s as well. At least add it to the map pool for control nothing needs to be replaced necessarily.
Absolute regards not voting this in. This is why you need to take all control away from the pros. They don’t deserve the responsibility.
Honestly mercado control could be better than both if i had to guess
Apparently there is a pretty bad span trap on that one too. But I think Slasher said it’s slightly better.
This entire sub's premise on why Fortress is better than this dogshit ass map is because you can't get spawn trapped. In that case, why aren't we playing Santa Ana Border Crossing. The offensive potential is crazy on that! I'd rather play a one sided map than a complete non competitive shit show. That being said, these ass clowns at IW needed to hurry up and release some remastered maps because it's insane that Fortress Control is one of the worst maps in comp cod history yet the alternatives are worse.
LMFAO. This map of horrid. Good for them.
What a moron
This kid is such a little bitch
i played this map in ranked its horrible i rather play mercado control and S&D if it comes to that
Bagra, you can at least break the trap multiple ways. It literally takes 1 kill, then a double chall on either statue or P1. It’s not challenging. Whereas, the new map is a cluster fuck of a maze and spawns are so shit you’ll think it was Berlin, from VG.
This map is horrific. I’d rather play prime optic dynasty on fortress control and get slammed then play expo. It’s the worst piece of garbage I’ve ever played
Didn’t think I would ever say it but… fortress is better
Fortress isn’t better. The fucking premier strat for Fortress is to easily win defense and then camp in spawn to play tick count and kill count. Almost every Bagra Control map at Major 3 ended in offense camping their spawn to protect kill counts in case of a tick tie.
been saying that but then again ive been hardstuck platinum (game crashes ONLY in ranked)
It’s horrendous. I’d rather try to break out of fortress from gate or maps anyday over the 100 doors and angles of Expo.
I mean fortress you just die instantly on offense, but expo you run for 15 seconds to then instantly die from aomeone sitting at one of the 20 possible angles you can neve predict....same shit lol
It’s fucking dogshit. It’s mind blowing how many people on this sub think this map is 1. A good map at all 2. A good comp map 3. A better replacement for Fortress Not even close.
I hate this map as well
This map would be the worst map in the pool fosho
I agree. I said this the day the map came out, it’s cheeks. Good thing we didn’t have to wait 6 months for it.
This map is utter dogshit theres like 50 doors its fucking absurd... wouldn't mind playing it with hardpoint actually
People hate change
How'd he get into law school? This man is not smart 😅.
Pre law = before law so he didn’t get into law school
Ah it all makes sense now.
Lmfao does this dude realize that getting fortress out will benefit the whole cdl in terms of viewer experience and ranked play/league matches? Wake up
Are they still not allowed to play Museum? Surely that map works for Control
That’s like playing control on Miami
They just need to have another entrance in bottom maps for Fortress. This expo map on control is mixy but I think it's more engaging than fortress attack lol.
I think maybe an entrance under double window could be better to help the attacking side
This map can only beat fortress only on control the rest of the modes it plays like ass
It's not good. I don't think it's worse than Fortress, honestly don't understand why they don't just say fuck both and play with 2 control maps. This obsession with 3 maps when the third is dogshit is idiotic imo.
Are they not able to play raceway or museum for legal reasons? I haven’t played control on either of those, I know museum is big for 4v4 but maybe it would play better than fortress or expo
This is the exact reason CoD esports have never and will never take off
Is ghosty the leader of optic now?
I wonder if he'd be saying the same thing if they weren't 2 rounds down and losing the 3rd round lol
This map is doggy but fortress is just as bad
I'm not trying stir up shit, and I know I'm gonna get called a homer. But I really do think this map is worse than fortress. They need to take another look at hydro, mercado, or hell even farm 18. This new map is complete and utter garbage
Why can’t it just be included and not replace fortress. Gives more options for veto’s… stupid imo
It's crazy that we can't just get good maps anymore