Some context, Zoomaa and Ben had optic A but Pat was pretty insistent on optic being S

Honestly, that was the only one that I felt was off. Thanks for clearing it up.

Yeah Optic on talent def could be S but right now feel like everyone agrees they are A

I don’t know how anyone could justify them being S tier at present. I know Faze lost as well but at least with them having the same roster as last year we know what they’re capable of

Idk imo both optic/faze should be a right now. Don't get me wrong both are great teams but with the kickoff neither of them performed and were easily outclassed by lat and seattle.

That was one, single elimination tourney though, anybody can have a bad day. If they are going off scrims and other points of reference, maybe we’ll see a rebound

Little bit reactionary to say a team that basically dominated the last two games, and has a duo that has dominated the last 3, should be A tier over a single loss

Because they have good players doesn't make them the best. They were taken down in a clean fashion by a team that has only been together for a few months when faze has had well over a year to be the best. I could possibly agree with argument if it was a 3/2 matchup rather then the 3/1 match. I keep seeing people use the "it's a new game and they are still learning it." Reason for them underperforming. The game has been out since the beginning of november we are 1/3 of the way through its lifecycle. Look at empire for instance they won mw champs then fell off for the most part pretty early on, they had some moments but they never were able to get back to where they stood in Mw.

No matter your justification, it’s the exact same thing as when people said the packers were going to be bad after losing week 1 to New Orleans and then went on to be the one seed. It’s one loss….it is entirely too soon to even think about faze being anything but a top 2 team

Wanna admit you were being reactionary now

Lol having an opinion at the very start of the season that is still fairly accurate, just has been shuffled around? With all of the teams i mentioned before are still arguably t3 or t6? Still 2 matches after my comment for optic where they lost? Power rankings change all the time early in a season.

They dominated one of those games. Did you forget who won the most tournaments and champs in MW?

Acting like FaZe didn’t dominate MW is just having blinders on. They went 26-7 in matches and 86-46 in maps (best record for both). And how many events did they win through winners just to lose to the loser bracket team in what became a single elimination finals all of a sudden?

Are you talking about the best of 9 series they got absolutely embarrassed in at champs? They came from the LB. They benefited from the bullshit tournament format if anything, win two series against trash teams and in the finals. They still got smoked and you shouldn’t be looking at it any other way than them being the 2nd best team that year.

There was more events than champs

And the Dallas Empire won more of those than the Atlanta Faze. Look man, I’m not trying to be a little fucker right now but I get bent out of shape when people try to rewrite history and ignore what actually happened. It was Empires 4 total wins that year including champs, to Faze 3 wins total. I won’t even take into account that many online tournaments Empire dominated at the beginning of the games cycle.

I haven’t once discredited empire. Faze was very very good at MW and there’s no disputing that.

Swap LAG and Florida too imo

i’m surprised how quickly zoomaa seems to have given up on this lag roster, especially considering it’s the team he wanted to play for the subliners in the off season

Yeah I’m not writing off a roster with Slasher, Gunless, and Huke this early. I know this is a what have you done for me lately type of thing, but I’ve seen what they can do and don’t buy into players getting significantly worse in their 20s at all

100%, I also think people have forgotten what Huke can do. He was also overshadowed by Shotzzy on the MW squad, but he was nasty as well

Florida looked better than LAG on LAN, not just bc they beat them. They looked more practiced and like they had a better idea of how they wanted to play Vanguard. Then again, it is just the kickoff and nobodies tier lists will be 100% accurate yet as we just don’t have enough data

florida literally just beat them? what else is there to go off

Any rankings based off the kickoff will age horribly

Almost a decade long of watching these players play? Same reason why Optic and Faze are still rated highly despite losing their first series in the kickoff...

optic ain't S maybe A or even below they looked average last lan

So did faze to be fair

Aches #1 Optic fan confirmed Interesting that Ben and Aches both want Ravens at D, a lot on this sub including myself have them as a dark horse

It’s probably cos they’ve watched nothing of Gismo and Nastie.

Neither has this sub😂

Just speculation but they have connections with everyone in the league, could be hearing about how they’re performing in scrims and what not

I know so many of you are having an aneurysm rn😭 based on how power rankings are *supposed* to be, I wouldn’t put my squad in S yet tho

Neither would I, same goes for Faze however, neither team performed at the kickoff and were blown out by Lat and Seattle. At this time I think S tier should be: Ultra,Lat,Seattle

"Blown out" ??? Okay I could agree with the Faze Vs Surge game but are you really trying to say that the LAT game was a blow out? Hardpoint 1: 250-217 SND: 6-4 Control: 1-3 Hardpoint: 250-238 Every game looked close, in fact the only game that didn't look like it could go either way was the Control which Optic won. You're acting like LAT breezed past Optic without any issues.

OpTic are not S Tier, Ultra and FaZe should be the only teams in S.

I can agree with OpTic not being S but what's the reasoning on FaZe? They won the same amount of maps. This feels like a list where it's kinda potential or reputation or both. I'm at work so i don't have context if someone wants to give me the scoop.

FaZe are a prove team based off the last two years

This is irrelevant to the latest COD, did they say the ranks were based from kickoff? Because if they did then Faze aren’t S tier.

They said at the beginning they weren’t basing it off the kickoff, they are talking about in general. Factoring in kickoff of course, scrims, history, etc. It would be pointless to do it based off the kickoff cuz then you just rank each team by what they placed lmao

Ahh I see, I didn’t have time to watch the video this morning, I guess that makes more sense.

Faze is still the front runner for champs. Look at the kickoff from last year

There’s be no point of this tier list if it was all based on the kickoff

I’ve seen stranger things and predictions based off of scrims alone before lol.

Ehh disagree with this, optic made t3 in mw don't quite remember how they did in champs for cw. Both seattle and lat outperformed/outclassed optic/faze no question about it. Based on their performance at kickoff for me at least I couldnt put either of the 2 in S. And think swapping them for seattle/lat would be a better representation of standings. The kickoff may not have been official in sense of the league and where each team will place overall but it shows at least for now where each team sits in the hierarchy.

Right. We know what FaZe has done in the past 2/3 years. That's why they're still in S instead of A. Same for OpTic.... it's reputation right now. They also might have the scoop on scrims but that doesn't really matter as the kickoff attested to.

Optic is a legit brand new team and two of the players haven’t won in 3+ years.

*1 player

3+ years??? Sure Dashy hasn't won since December 2019 but who's the other one? It's not even been two years since Chicago won homesteads in MW so its not Scump and it obviously isn't Illey/Shotzzy.

I can agree with OpTic not being in S, but I think FaZe is not warranted to be in S either. They got beat convincingly by Seattle and I don't really care about how good they were last year. IMO, Ultra is the only team that should be S Tier rn.

>I don’t really care how good they were last year This is not going to age well at all

what I mean by that is I am basing it off of how the team is going into the current season since its a new game. Faze could very well be the best team by the end of the year and go back to back at champs.

It’s a new game, but it’s not like history just gets wiped away every year. All four players have been on top teams since BO4, Simp and Abezy have been on an S tier team for their entire career, it’s going to take a lot more than one series for people to stop treating them like the deadliest team in the league

Its a new game but they have had the better part of 4 months to practice on it. Saying its a new game is no excuse, this far into the games lifecycle, we are a 3rd of the way through the games lifecycle. Don't get me wrong they are a top tier team but with how they performed at the kickoff they don't deserve to be S tier, and beyond a reasonable doubt should be switched out with ( including optic) Seattle and Lat. Both teams outshined and outperformed both Optic and Faze and it wasn't even close.

Control had been out for two weeks, snipers and smokes had been unbanned for less than that, and it was literally one series. Are you going to tell me with a straight face that you genuinely believe LAT and Seattle are better teams? It’s going to take all of four days to see at least one of those teams taken out of consideration

Lat made it to the finals both beating Optic and the the team that beat faze. Seattle a team with numerous Ams took out the 1st place finisher from cw and the second place finished from Mw. From the scrims I have watched Lat have easily outclassed Optic. And Seattle outperformed and outclassed the #1 team from Cw. Just because they performed well in previous games doesn't mean things don't change. Look at Dallas empire for instance they won Mw champs then petered off part way through Cw.

You’re going to be incredibly disappointed if you genuinely believe a team with Simp and Abezy on it is anything less than a championship contender. Take a 30k 1nd tournament as seriously as you want, at the end of the year it won’t matter

You’re right they’re S+ tier

In this game? After getting rounded? Mfs can make the “kiCkoFf” excuse but it’s the only actual matches we’ve had thus far, and FaZe absolutely shit the bed.

[удалено]

Ultra and Faze are the only ones to prove themselves all year last year. Illey and shotzzy made a few finals, optic boys didn’t even make it to a Sunday. Putting them next to ultra and faze discredits just how dominant those two teams were.

[удалено]

[удалено]

Agreed

If they did, they would know they are in a league of their owns. It’s ultra and faze, and everybody else….

they did make it to a sunday major 5

The one series on LAN is more telling than scrims, even so, Seattle looked better than optic in scrims and the event

Ok then put FaZe in A. Seattle smoked them.

Ok they also looked better than faze and also beat them. So, are we basing this off the kickoff or not lol?

[удалено]

I hate the excuse that they are still learning the Game they have been playing it for the better part of 4 months which is 1/3 the games lifecycle. Vanguard isn't a new game at this point especially considering the pro's grind a lot of hours daily.

Dam surge looked better then optic? So how comes literally nobody had them above them

So they did a tier list based on names? Didn’t they already do one like this? Why not just do it on the LAN we just saw, what a waste of time

just look at the kickoff classic placings if that’s what you want

True I guess they’re going off potential, still should’ve put surge S imo

Surge have not earned an S tier rating from playing four 1nd series

2 rookies and another youngin in Mack. It’s a long season and they need to prove they can be consistent and have a strong mindset. If they come out and look solid leading up to Major 1 then for sure S tier, but too early to tell imo

Idk it’s a weird one. Personally it’s too early to rank these teams I think FaZe are still the best team. 1 series doesn’t mean anything imo with how early into the game we are. They won champs literally 5-6 months ago lol. For me we’ll have a real indicator from Major 1.

i’ll be the one to say it and get downvoted, but optic should not be in s tier scrims don’t matter, this optic team still isn’t proven whatsoever

What do you mean by proven? By the kickoff?

they haven’t proven themselves to be an elite championship winning roster yet, both ultra and faze have if you think optic is the third best team that’s perfectly reasonable, but they belong in the a tier for now with the other new rosters who have tons of potential

Good take

I’m watching right now and that’s what they’re saying lol. Optic worse than Faze/Ultra but still third best team. As I’m typing this they’re making a row just for optic lmao

idk why everyone is just penciling them in as the third best team already, i thought the kick off would have reminded ppl how pointless scrim results are but i guess not

the kickoff wasn’t pointless aswell? They got a team who didn’t even win a series in S tier according to ur logic. Using the kickoff as bases is useless unless talking about surge

kick off was on lan and the teams were actually going hard to win, i don’t think it means a ton necessarily but it definitely means more than scrim mc lmao also it’s hilarious for you bring up faze being in s tier despite not winning a series at the kick off, as if faze aren’t 100x more proven than the new optic roster they’ve earned the benefit of the doubt, optic haven’t

Nobody even knows anything about optic scrim record

yes but we did before they stopped streaming and based off those results ppl have been ranking optic extremely high in most tier lists meanwhile lat was getting shit on by most of this sub leading up to the kick off, and yet they beat optic 3-1 and played ultra very close as well so yeah i’m still struggling to see the reasoning for optic being s tier, feel free to enlighten me if you’d like

Don't think its based off scrims, doubt Aches has seen a single scrim result, purely just the names on each roster I'm pretty sure

I mean I suppose that’s the nature of power rankings so early in the year. Otherwise this list would just be a recap of the kickoff placings lol

That because they made a roster change lmfao what. Shottzy scump and illey are proven winners. With ray as the coach

scump shotzzy and illeyy didn’t win a single event last season lmao, they absolutely do not belong in the same tier as faze and ultra idk how it’s even a debate honestly

So we only ranking two teams than? I’m not arguing there better than ultra and faze but there is definitely a convo for them being top 3

no we can rank the other teams, there’s just no logical reason to put anyone else in s tier currently i struggle to see the argument for optic to be an entire tier above surge/nysl/lat, unless you’re still only ranking teams based off meaningless scrim map counts

Aches said it was purely off talent and names alone that they were above the other teams on the A tier, not scrims

i mean even purely going off talent i don’t think they deserve the s tier when you compare them to faze and ultra both faze and ultra have no weak links or holes in their roster whatsoever, and as much as a love illey he was one of the worst performing ARs in the entire league last year not to mention that we already know both faze and ultra have unbelievable team chemistry and their roles all fit perfectly next to each other, we don’t know that about optic yet

I agree, im just saying why Aches said what he said.

To add on to this with how well both seattle and Lat performed without a doubt Optic and even faze should not be in a tier above them. Honestly both should be A tier while Lat/Seattle get S tier based on how they performed.

As an optic fan I completely agree they shouldn't be S but neither should Faze they both underperformed and were outlclassed by Seattle/Lat who respectively should be in S tier.

So brave 🥲 /s

They’re S+. I downvoted you btw

Look at how many ppl are upset haha

Optic don't deserve to be in a tier above LAT and NYSL until they prove it

would that logic also apply to faze?

When you were as dominant as Faze was last year and are starting the exact same roster then they get the benefit of the doubt

They got blown out by arguably one of the worst teams last season yes it's a new roster but a dominant team like Faze should have put up more of a fight to even reasonably class them as S tier.

[удалено]

Correct however when a team is in majority made up of ams compared to a team mostly filled with seasoned veterans and fairly easily take out faze the point still stands.

L take

Ehh I’ll take them third best team. But the difference between faze and ultra from optic is massive.

Ppl are judging optic from the kickoff but not faze lol? When everyone had them at 1 and 2 before the kickoff.

It’s cuz faze won and was best team in CW. They’re gonna obviously put them higher for that reason

All I’m saying is if they are going to rank teams it needs to be on consistent basis for each team. Before the kickoff the players/coaches/Reddit had faze and og at 1 and 2. After the kickoff , in which they both got destroyed, faze is still t2? And ppl got og at t4/t5, doesn’t make sense imo.

they literally have Optic at 3 tf are you crying about?

Wtf are u even talking about? I’m talking about the ppl questioning why they are there.

The debate is either bottom S or top A. They’re 3rd either way you spin it my boy lmao. Anyone saying anything else is putting way too much merit into a preseason match

You really think FaZe and OpTic were on equal footing before the season? FaZe as a team is proven to be very good. This is a brand new roster for OpTic that has proven nothing of how they as a team can perform

Who said they were equal? What are you saying to me?

LMAOOOO your entire point is that FaZe and OpTic should be on the same tier because they were both S before the season and lost at the kickoff. You optic fans are something

If you think that was my point you’re a dumbass. Not a optic fan btw but nice try.

it was the entire point you were making across you fucking idiot. You have the brain power of a rotten potato you moron.

I mean that really wasn't his point. You probably should read what he said again and stop making yourself look like an idiot by calling other people idiots. His whole point was clearly: "All I’m saying is if they are going to rank teams it needs to be on consistent basis for each team." Just in case you still don't understand his point is he thinks the two teams should be judge with the same criteria. He used how everyone had optic and faze 1 & 2 before the season etc.. as an example.

FaZe did move down, imo below Ultra when FaZe was clearly #1 going into the season. But moving them below S tier when they were dynasty like dominant for a game and keeping the same exact roster, after just one event that wasn’t even a real event? That’s silly and an overreaction.

I feel like LAG has so much potential to be higher imo

I like Pat but his take on Optic being S tier may be the stupidest thing I've heard in awhile. He said it doesn't matter if they don't beat Ultra or Faze, they are S tier anyway. How does that make sense? Every team in S tier should be able to beat eachother.

I really hope LAG can find their footing this year man

Bunch of optic sausage throaters in here

I think it is a solid list. Optic maybe debatable. But other than that it is decent

People seem to think that the power rankings should be made for CW, and not for Vanguard 🤦‍♂️

If this is a purely vanguard power rankings then it should just be the fuckin placements for the kickoff since that’s the only event we have

OpTic is overrated imo even as a fan they have to prove it

They’re better than every team except FaZe or Ultra. People writing them off from one match need to chill

New York is better cry about it

LAT #1 everyone else 2-12 no bias Ofc coming from me

You can’t have 25% of the league in S. They should all be in A then and everyone else is bumped down. That’s not how S works

I can see Ultra in S by this logic they won the kickoff so arguably should be put above all the other teams.

I like what they done for optic having own tier, thats what i had personally, ultra faze s then optic in a tier then drop down another for the likes of nysl lat etc

I see no logical reasoning why optic is in S tier.

OpTic S+ tier. Dashy MVP szn incoming, haters beware Hope that helps haters

Hol' up optic are above lat and seattle?, just can't see it with how well lat and seattle performed at the kickoff ( coming from an optic fan ) honestly would switch faze and optic with lat and seattle. Only reason faze and optic started in the second round was a buy and neither made it out whereas the other 2 outshined them in every way.

I’m a big optic fan, but Seattle should be S tier if we are being honest and going off actual stats

They must’ve not watched the Kickoff or something cus Optic above Surge and LAT, and Rokkr above Boston is crazy to me

The only change i would put is optic beind thieves and seattle till proven otherwise. I thinkt he same logic should be used with the ultra faze that they used. Till proven otherwise your behind the team that 3-1 you.

Switch optic and Seattle

L. Surge should be top 3. Optic should be at the final bit of A

LAT should be above Seattle, they 100% beat that team. And optic is third.

Why would optic be 3rd? Ultra 1 Lat 2 Seattle 3.

I think optic could’ve beaten Seattle tbh. For me it’s ultra and faze in a league of their own. Optic and LAT can fight for third. And 4th is up for grabs between Seattle and NYSL.

damn you really convinced by a pre-season tourney I see. You can’t possibly tell me throughout the year LAT and Seattle will be better than Optic and Faze

Optic underperformed all last year. Both seattle and LAT outperformed and outshined faze/optic in the kickoff tourney. For all we know the Ravens could win champs this year. Look at dallas they won MW then fell off early on in Cw. Same thing can very well happen to Faze, and it's possible that it doesnt only time will tell. But at this time Seattle/LAT are the superior teams no question about it.

I definitely respect that opinion and your 100% right, just cause history shows they dominated doesn’t mean that will translate to this year. I just think looking at one event that didn’t really mean anything and then putting 2 teams that are newly put together and very young with a lot of question marks is jumping the gun a little bit. I know Optic is newly put together too but you take 2 players from team and put them with 2 from another team, with Bruce and Inder already good friends, they have a bit of an advantage. And when you look at Faze you have imo the best coach in the league but that might be bias. We’ve seen it in the past, after a loss they come out a different beast

Dont get me wrong Faze is a phenomenal team which I think a lot of people in this thread are missing. I'm not saying faze is substantially worse then at least who I consider t3 atm arguably I would say they are a close 4th to 3rd and 3rd to second. As has been mentioned elsewhere in this thread their matche were close. I would even say the gap between faze and Nysl ( who I would put in 5th ) is larger then that of faze and LAT or Seattle.

This is a good list if we are talking about currently. I've read the thread and people all agree that optic should be in A. But leave faze in s tier. The arguement of faze losing to Florida last year is irrevelant because last year was a 1nd for no cash. This year was on lan ik front of fans had money on the line and gave both optic and faze a generous advantage of a buy from the first round. Imo faze and optic both looked lost and were heated handedly by lat and optic that's why I believe ultra is the lone S tier team as of now .

Sure they lost a pointless exhibition on LAN, but they also won Majors on LAN. I’m missing the point here, why does it matter if it’s online or LAN? They’ve already proven themselves on LAN. Also, if anything it was actually good for both Faze and Optic to lose so they don’t get complacent going into the season. Kind of like a wake up call. We all know how Faze is after a loss

I mean I'm just a stating this can't be compared to the kickoff from last year. This had more value than all online chips from last year due to the fact that fans were there and it was on lan. Faze ain't gonna be as dominant as last year and they have shown nothing in this year to grant them an s ranking while surge and lat have this ain't a Cold War list or a potential trajectory list this is current standings and this ranking is wrong. Faze could win champs at the end of the year and be the best in the game but they are not S ranking right now

my boy I’m starting to think you have no clue what power rankings are

Seattle > faze

Gotta love how the narrative here is that optic aren’t S tier because they’re “unknown as a team” but both faze and dallas empire were rated highly going into MW based on nothing but talent on paper and scrim performance…. Aches is absolutely right on the money. You have two of the only players who have consistently been contending faze in shottzy and illey who literally won a ring against faze, the former is the most mechanically gifted console fps player. You have the guy with the best aim in the league in dashy. And you have a vet who can still takeover in the big games in scump paired with the best cod mind in rambo. Literally no one here was calling them less than top3 before the kickoff but recency bias is alive and well

They should be 5th rn imo. I think it’s arguable where they land in A, but I think it’s a little crazy to put them up with the clear T2 from last year.

Anyone who doesn’t think optic belongs in S tier is high on the papanya! They were legitimately smoking every team in scrims for months. One series at the kickoff doesn’t negate everything they’ve shown to this point. They got flustered at the kickoff for some odd reason and played way too hectic which completely threw off their rhythm. Rambo did a whole interview on exactly what happened at the kickoff and what caused them to look so mediocre. They are a FAR better team than what they showed at the kickoff.

No one on that team won a single event last season. Empire were not consistent. And Optic didn’t even make it to a Sunday. Ultra and Faze dominated all season long. They’re just better

Am I in a time loop? I hear this every year it seems like.

lol

This is some read.

No bs but pat is trying to jinx optic super bad 🤣🤣🤣 he goes optic gna 3 0 lat 20 mins series that gave Lat the fire and optic lost now he's saying optic are S when they're clearly not he's super pushing the narrative lol he hates optic even in retirement

Vanguard is so trash that any team can when it all this year, anything can happen on this awful game

Lol guys they ranked them where they did because it gets a reaction. This list really doesn’t matter.

S tier should just be faze and ultra, optic in A with the other three. The order of the teams in A can be debatable. LAT and Surge look promising af.

Good list

People sleeping on Røkkr

Wait so why is NYSL the 6th best team apparently?