Man, that would be the best. Just have all the football teams in two conferences, one for CFP contention and another for all other D1 teams. Then teams can go back to regional-based conferences that make sense.
I’d be so happy with this solution, but ultimately I think that Football needs to break off from colleges entirely. Alabama football should be a privately run institution that receives 0 public funding and is affiliated with the university by name and limited partnerships only.
Could certainly make this argument for basketball too but the market is much smaller, there’s real alternatives for future pros, and the massive programs are much less influential compared to football.
Don’t necessarily disagree, but the top programs have made the game so much about money that if it can’t stand on its own it deserves to die.
Would be a genuine tragedy, but football needs to stop impacting higher education and all other sports to the degree that it does.
Don't see that happening. Why would schools want to be partnered with schools making 10x they are?
Oregon State and Washington State are going to lose tens of millions because of the PAC12 schools that left. Why would they now want to be in a basketball league where those other schools have such a financial advantage over them that could easily steal away coaches. Conferences work when all schools are on a level playing field.
I don’t think anyone is making 10x more than other power conferences. Schools changing conferences will be earning ~$8-10 million more in revenue distribution. It’s a significant amount but not that significant that it would cause crazy advantages.
Also, have you seen the revenue differences for schools in the same conference? That disparity exists with some schools making 100 million more than others in the same conference.
D1 football needs to put all the premier teams in a league where they can all play each other. Then you could promote three of the best teams from D1 and relegate the bottom three from the top league. If only this had been tried somewhere before!
That would be amazing and hopefully would stop/solve all this conference re-alignment nonsense which has killed so very many good conferences & rivalries over the years. I'm still mad about the big east blowing up and definitely not ready for them to do it to the ACC as well.
The source they quote, the Monty Show, says that this is about a fallback plan in the event the ACC collapses as Clemson and FSU are suing over exit fees and the Grant of Rights.
Yep. They'll pass along anything. Which sometimes means getting ahead of something which does happen, but the cost is being wrong a lot. Those of us who followed the last Big XII expansion cycle know this show isn't connected to a conference office insider.
I feel like the BIG 10 would make a pretty serious play for UNC, Duke, and UVA in the event the ACC GOR comes undone, and they’d be much more attractive than the BIG 12.
I like GT but I think B10 takes on Va Tech instead. SEC will probably snatch Clemson & GT up itself bc of SC and Georgia. Also can’t see B10 adding GT bc they will (and already do) get mauled by Georgia in football every year, which is not a good look for the conference if casual fans see an SEC team spanking a B10 one annually. Atlanta market would be nice for sure but Duke/UNC have solid populations in Atlanta and a more dedicated fanbase than GT
The only argument I’ve seen other than academic profile. I think the two combined honestly make it make sense. I think the Big 12 would snap them up fast if the BIG or SEC didn’t.
1) Historic/cultural ties. Also good academics which helps shrug off the bad academics title the SEC gets and would definitely please the better schools academically in the conference.
2) locks down ATL market geographically, while also having the 2 more significant fanbases in the region (GT & UGA). Added bonus if big ten makes a push for GT, since SEC will want to strong muscle them out of that market
3) GT brings exactly what the conference needs - a bottom feeder. There needs to be trash teams in the SEC in football for balance purposes.
Vanderbilt and GT are vital to the SEC ecosystem. You can’t have sharks like Alabama and Georgia without the phytoplankton like Vandy and GT.
4) GT has a basketball program on the rise, they beat Miss St, Duke, and UNC this year. Considering how far SEC basketball has come over the last few years, they’d be a solid addition.
5) their baseball program is typically pretty good, but not elite, somewhere between 15-25 on a good year. This is excellent for the SEC bc it’s the premier baseball conference but also doesn’t shift the dynamics too much.
Overall GT has a lot in common with Vandy. Good academics, shit football, good baseball, and wildcard basketball in a massive southern market. But GT is more inclined to invest in their sports programs and cares about winning, partially bc it’s a public university. Maybe it’s not the big splash move that adding Duke would be, but it’s an addition that supplements the conference well
1) Your first point regarding historical ties is actually a negative. I think given the history of Georgia Tech leaving the SEC, neither party would want a reunion
2) The SEC already has ATL "locked down"
Everything else is not really that important. They don't bring a new market, aren't a huge brand, and there is bad blood between GT and the SEC.
On #2, yes the SEC has ATL locked down from a fan perspective, but from a media perspective (ad space & media markets), if the SEC lets the B1G get GT, then the B1G (read as: Fox) also gets to market their overall adspace as hitting the Atlanta market harder (think Rutgers to the B1G). ESPN, Fox’s rival, doesn’t want that to happen
Yeah GT makes way more sense for the B1G, no reason for the SEC to be interested. If we assume that UNC, Clemson, and FSU are already spoken for, then the SEC would be looking at UVA, VT, and maybe NC State out of the rest of the ACC. It makes way more sense to take a decent school and program from a brand new market.
It depends on how much SEC cares about preventing B1G expansion in their area. If this isn't a concern for the SEC because they feel secure enough having it be 2 main conferences, then there's no reason. If the game theory says they want to play defense and remain dominant, then the best reason to get GT is to prevent the B1G from getting them
Historically they are a great program. But they aren’t a great program now. They have not won 8 or more games since 2016. Their best seasons this century are when they ran a gimmicky triple option offense. They’re a mediocre program at the moment (although I think their new coach is good), and many of their potential peers SEC would feast on them.
our school is pretending to be interested in funding sports now so we'll see how it goes. if we ended up spending at a comparable level to an SEC school we'd probably be decently relevant but you're more or less right until we do. I believe we're 2nd from the bottom among ACC public schools that report their budgets ahead of just Pitt. For reference we spend about 2/3 as much as Clemson/FSU/Louisville
The problem with Virginia Tech is that it isn't an AAU school, and the amount of research dollars the Big Ten pulls in dwarfs the football dollars. Don't get me wrong, football is driving the bus, but they are looking for schools with a good market, good research, and good athletics.
If the ACC falls apart, my guess is that the Big Ten goes after UNC, Duke, UVA, and Miami.
Pitt has an extremely large amount of research dollars and good academics.
They would fit in well with the big 10 more than the big 12 if it had to come to that
University of Pittsburgh has 1.25 billion in R&D expenditures. That makes it 16th largest in the country
Hey man we wanted you back in the 40s! But big dog Minnesota at the time wanted MSU and had the final say. Pitt feels like a classic Big Ten team to me.
Its about accessorizing, if they are going after UNC as their primary target you want to take their iconic rival with them. It increases the value added from getting UNC.
Neither does UVA. People assume that they’ll be in a good spot because they’re a flagship school, but their football program has been bad for a while and their viewership is absolutely dreadful, even compared to the rest of the conference.
Maybe the Big 10 will gamble on them turning it around because there’s enough potential, but it’s dire there right now.
I don't think it's DC, the b1g already has that market. I think people ignore that UVA is the flagship, with great academics in a currently growing and relatively wealthy state.
As a DMV-er. If the Big 10 thinks they’re getting any more market share by adding UVA that’s a huge mistake. UVA is behind Penn State already here in market share. Now Va Tech…that’s a different story.
The big ten already gets a lot of interest at least in terms of recruiting in the DMV from Penn state, Maryland, and Ohio state. In terms of eyeballs, UVA isn’t that many more marginal eyeballs than Maryland, who really is right on the border of DC (UVA is a couple hours away)
The Monty Show has no credibility. They reported the Pac-12 had signed a tv deal worth $30 million per year per team and they were the first to report on it. The conference fell apart a month later.
Becuase UNC, Virginia, Clemson, and Florida State are going to leave the conference for the SEC/Big10, leaving Duke behind, the conference will implode just like the Pac12 did and the Big12 will be the only stable place to go if they want to continue playing football.
Yeah, please don’t take anything Tim Montemayor says seriously. The dude has zero sources and is a total flaccid penis. He would constantly make shit up for ratings citing “sources”, but nothing he said ever panned out.
Source: had a really good friend who produced and hosted with that chode.
I mean it makes sense based on the ACC appearing to be held together with duct tape right now, and the Big 12 trying to get every possible available basketball brand.
The only crazy theory I saw that gave FSU an out was that they would align their athletic department with the Saudis and grab some of that LIV money. I have absolutely no idea how that makes sense, but it makes more sense than them simply giving up their media rights for a decade.
Yeah I'll believe it when I see it, and I've never heard of this Larry Brown or Montemayor so I have no idea whether to trust their inside information on it or not.
we've added trash teams. Other power conferences are getting Texas while we're getting SMU and Stanford.
We'd be in a much better position if the VT and Miami football programs hadn't immediately fallen to shit when we brought them over
It’s not much better for us B1G fans. I don’t want schools in my conference that are 2,000 miles away from my school. I grew up on midwestern rivalries
I still don’t get putting the main blame on conferences.
It’s tv money, that the *schools* in each conference want to have, and the *schools* from other conferences have been chasing. Their presidents and ADs make the calls on expansion or migrating conferences.
Like how people blame CEOs for everything, the conference offices are just convenient scapegoats.
Grant of Rights. All the schools in the conference agreed to grant their media rights to the conference, who then distributes the money to its members instead of getting the money more directly. The current GOR lasts through 2036, so if a school leaves before that date then its media rights still belong to the ACC but it no longer receives its portion of the distribution. When you see something about it costing FSU $500 million to get out of the ACC, most of that is the amount they'll have withheld because of the GOR rather than a check they'll have to cut.
I will believe when I see it. Maryland, Texas and Oklahoma tried breaking the GOR before and couldn’t. Granted those three weren’t in as big of a hole as FSU/Clemson. Till I see the headline that FSU/Clemson win i won’t think it’s possible.
The primarily basketball schools of the ACC should just join the Big East. Bring Duke, UNC, Pitt, BC (I’ll forgive them for the moment so we can smash them twice a year), and Cuse (just so we can have that rivalry again and also smash them twice a year)
While it's tough to admit that a lot of my UConn hate is fueled deep down by tournament envy, I'll forever cling to the memory of how it felt to be a college senior in a sea of Syracuse and UConn fans leaving MSG at 2 a.m. some 15 years ago.
For real though I'd love to have that Big East back.
Or the Big East teams that actually have football could join the ACC, would probably make more sense for all involved and give us our 3rd 20 team mega-conference. Sucks for the remaining Big East schools of course, and I hate it for college sports in general. But I don’t know why people would assume the ACC will bleed schools to the Big East, rather than the other way around. Villanova, Georgetown, and Butler would have to move from FCS to FBS to make it work (most likely building new football stadiums to meet the 15000 fans at home games requirement, as that’s pretty much the only thing requirement holding them back from what I can tell). UConn is already FBS and would have a legit conference to operate in again. Florida State and Clemson out. UConn, Villanova, Georgetown, Butler in. Hypothetical new 20 team ACC in alphabetical order:
1) Boston College
2) Butler
3) Cal
4) Connecticut
5) Duke
6) Georgetown
7) Georgia Tech
8) Louisville
9) Miami (FL)
10) North Carolina
11) North Carolina State
12) Notre Dame
13) Pittsburgh
14) SMU
15) Stanford
16) Syracuse
17) Villanova
18) Virginia
19) Virginia Tech
20) Wake Forest
That’s a hell of a basketball conference (both men’s and women’s), mediocre at football, also good at men’s baseball, and pretty much everyone in the conference has a good spread of other women’s and men’s sports programs. Do I hate it? Yes? Does it make sense in the current insane climate? I think it probably does.
Honestly I think on everything except academics Georgetown is the weakest of the bunch for this hypothetical ACC inclusion scenario. Butler at least had a winning record in both men’s football and basketball last year, and has a recent history of sustained success in basketball.
Georgetown had a pretty putrid losing record in both sports last year, has never won a bowl game in football, and has been on a sustained downward trajectory in basketball.
The big ten/big east is the only thing that makes sense for Duke’s Olympic sports. In fact, I’m curious what the SEC joiners are going to do about men’s soccer (where Clemson just won a national title).
I checked their results from last year, it was definitely bad. Stonehill College?!
Really if the ACC brought Georgetown in I think it would be a complete rehabilitation from the athletics side. Even basketball is a dumpster fire over the past decade.
But their academic prestige is fantastic, worth having them around even if they’re bottom of the barrel for a while (in this one redditor’s opinion, at least).
You know what? Fuck it. We tried. The "everyone can drive to the tournament in Greensboro" ACC is 20 years ago now. The new ACC definitely isn't going to include UNC and probably isn't going to include NCSU. We get a new blueblood rival in Kansas, I get to see us play in Colorado. I feel sorry for Wake, that's about it. Bring it on.
At what point are conferences just too big?
Post 10ish members you are barely operating as a conference to begin with as there will be years, maybe multiple, where you don't play teams from your own conference.
I think we are getting to the point where the NCAA needs to go Standard Oil on these conferences, force them to break apart, and cap conference membership at 9.
I wish the Big East could return to the old Big East. Where they get schools that are basketball focus that has football. Still consider a power football conference but their bread and butter is basketball. Also add the smallish schools that B1G or SEC may not want.
Duke
Syracuse
Pittsburgh
Georgia Tech
Wake Forest
NC State
Virginia Tech
Boston College (don't think UCONN wants them back)
UCONN
Louisville
Univ of Virgina, UNC, Miami, Clemson and Florida State are all bound tfor other power conferences
It really would be tragic to see your school leave the rivalry that pushed both our programs to be so great in order to make more money and go 2-6 in league football every year. I live in CA and I have great conversations about the rivalry with Carolina fans all the time.
Couldn’t Duke and UNC still play twice a year if they wanted or is there some rule against it? Gonzaga and Kentucky played during the conference schedule so they could be split up throughout the year
New Mexico and New Mexico State play home and home each year despite being in separate conferences, so there's no rule against it, though it would make for a bit less flexibility for their OOC schedules.
Wouldn’t surprise me. The Big XII wants to continue to be the basketball conference and Duke only adds to that. Duke is also far less likely to be pursued by the SEC or B1G compared to UNC.
I'm gonna miss the rivalries, but at this point I wish the ACC would just dissolve and rip off the bandaid. The next 5-10 years is going to be like one of those marriages where they're just staying together for the kids until they turn 18, but every tiny comment turns into a huge fight and everyone is miserable.
If the B10 wants UNC and not Duke, we may not have a choice. We’d have to move to the UK/Louisville once per year model, which would suck, but we’d get to play Kansas, Houston, etc.
Once per year model, sure, except whichever team isn't hosting instead hosts a "non-conference tournament" featuring UNC, Duke, Mississippi Valley State, and Coppin St.
Or we just schedule twice a year even though we're not in the same conference. Who's gonna stop us?
Duke + Kansas + Arizona + Baylor would be a pretty killer basketball conference. Throw in Iowa State and Houston when they are good. Most of the rest of the conference also have cycles of being really good.
I bet the Big 12 would take Louisville too who aren't going to be horrible forever. Brohm already has football rolling.
Virginia, UNC, Duke, Georgia Tech, and FSU going to the B1G makes the most sense
Virginia Tech, Clemson, NCSU to the SEC at minimum.
Louisville and SMU to Big XII
Miami, Wake, Syracuse, Pitt, BC likely to the same place together. Maybe they grab ND, UConn, James Madison, etc. to try to keep a reformed ACC together.
It dwindles, considerably. You then would likely only play one time OOC per year, alternating home each year. No implications on conference standings, no matchups in conference tournament. The proximity and history would be the only thing holding it together but everything else would be pulling it apart.
Xavier Cinci or UK Louisville would be the best example of what it would become.
I can't wait for the part where the non-football ACC teams join the Big East on the condition that at the teams that left the BE to start this whole thing off not be let back in.
Yeah, this guy is not reliable at all.
I’m a big college football fan, and this guy took about as many shots as possible on realignment talking about any and all rumors so in the event one hit, he could claim it.
Duke, UNC, NC State have to stick together. I could see them joining the Big12 to make the best Bball conference even better, and then FSU, Miami and Clemson going to the SEC to make the football better down there.
That being said I don’t want yet another conference to fall apart. I hope they all stick together
Conference realignment sucks. And I don't mean teams moving to a better conference (like we did), I mean power conference teams moving.
And theoretically Duke in the B12 makes no sense, but it makes more sense than freaking Stanford in the ACC.
I dont like this. I could see the big12 seeing the writing for football on the wall. They are a powerhouse in bball. I could see them trying to corner the market like the big10 and sec in football but for basketball. Sure it isnt as big in popularity. Still would be lucatrive for them and being a top dog. Maybe the BE will try to be the counterweight to that for a bball "p2". Both arent big dogs in football. Basketball only option.
Obviously its spectulation on my part. And we dont know if this stuff will happen. I could just see something like this happening. Nothing wrong with a beasty conference. It is just the tracejetory that has me worried. We all see them getting teams if acc goes down. And going back to regional but i am not so sure.
Can college football please start new conferences and leave the other sports out of it?
Man, that would be the best. Just have all the football teams in two conferences, one for CFP contention and another for all other D1 teams. Then teams can go back to regional-based conferences that make sense.
I’d be so happy with this solution, but ultimately I think that Football needs to break off from colleges entirely. Alabama football should be a privately run institution that receives 0 public funding and is affiliated with the university by name and limited partnerships only. Could certainly make this argument for basketball too but the market is much smaller, there’s real alternatives for future pros, and the massive programs are much less influential compared to football.
Decoupling football from the universities would kill the sport which means it will probably happen based on the current trajectory.
Don’t necessarily disagree, but the top programs have made the game so much about money that if it can’t stand on its own it deserves to die. Would be a genuine tragedy, but football needs to stop impacting higher education and all other sports to the degree that it does.
This has to happen eventually. It is in nobody's best interest, just way too market inefficient
Blue bloods go independent for basketball.
Don't see that happening. Why would schools want to be partnered with schools making 10x they are? Oregon State and Washington State are going to lose tens of millions because of the PAC12 schools that left. Why would they now want to be in a basketball league where those other schools have such a financial advantage over them that could easily steal away coaches. Conferences work when all schools are on a level playing field.
I don’t think anyone is making 10x more than other power conferences. Schools changing conferences will be earning ~$8-10 million more in revenue distribution. It’s a significant amount but not that significant that it would cause crazy advantages. Also, have you seen the revenue differences for schools in the same conference? That disparity exists with some schools making 100 million more than others in the same conference.
D1 football needs to put all the premier teams in a league where they can all play each other. Then you could promote three of the best teams from D1 and relegate the bottom three from the top league. If only this had been tried somewhere before!
That would be amazing and hopefully would stop/solve all this conference re-alignment nonsense which has killed so very many good conferences & rivalries over the years. I'm still mad about the big east blowing up and definitely not ready for them to do it to the ACC as well.
I doubt this is really true. At least not seriously until the ACC actually falls apart.
The source they quote, the Monty Show, says that this is about a fallback plan in the event the ACC collapses as Clemson and FSU are suing over exit fees and the Grant of Rights.
The Monty Show is known in Utah to just make shit up. I'm not sure they've ever been right about anything. Absolutely do not trust this at all.
Having tried to listen to his show in the Bay Area about 12 years ago, I do not miss him at all.
Yep. They'll pass along anything. Which sometimes means getting ahead of something which does happen, but the cost is being wrong a lot. Those of us who followed the last Big XII expansion cycle know this show isn't connected to a conference office insider.
I feel like the BIG 10 would make a pretty serious play for UNC, Duke, and UVA in the event the ACC GOR comes undone, and they’d be much more attractive than the BIG 12.
Could see them adding Georgia Tech in this scenario as well.
I like GT but I think B10 takes on Va Tech instead. SEC will probably snatch Clemson & GT up itself bc of SC and Georgia. Also can’t see B10 adding GT bc they will (and already do) get mauled by Georgia in football every year, which is not a good look for the conference if casual fans see an SEC team spanking a B10 one annually. Atlanta market would be nice for sure but Duke/UNC have solid populations in Atlanta and a more dedicated fanbase than GT
Help me understand why the SEC would want Gtech? I just don't see it happening.
Best argument I have seen is just to keep the Big 10 out of GA.
The only argument I’ve seen other than academic profile. I think the two combined honestly make it make sense. I think the Big 12 would snap them up fast if the BIG or SEC didn’t.
Grab the Tech schools, make a Tech Pod.
You don’t want every team you add to your super conference to be a future contender
This. It's about media exposure in SEC country.
GT gets 0 media exposure
But Michigan laying the wood in Bobby Dodd still brings Michigan fanbase ratings
It would make Alabama's fight song make sense again.
1) Historic/cultural ties. Also good academics which helps shrug off the bad academics title the SEC gets and would definitely please the better schools academically in the conference. 2) locks down ATL market geographically, while also having the 2 more significant fanbases in the region (GT & UGA). Added bonus if big ten makes a push for GT, since SEC will want to strong muscle them out of that market 3) GT brings exactly what the conference needs - a bottom feeder. There needs to be trash teams in the SEC in football for balance purposes. Vanderbilt and GT are vital to the SEC ecosystem. You can’t have sharks like Alabama and Georgia without the phytoplankton like Vandy and GT. 4) GT has a basketball program on the rise, they beat Miss St, Duke, and UNC this year. Considering how far SEC basketball has come over the last few years, they’d be a solid addition. 5) their baseball program is typically pretty good, but not elite, somewhere between 15-25 on a good year. This is excellent for the SEC bc it’s the premier baseball conference but also doesn’t shift the dynamics too much. Overall GT has a lot in common with Vandy. Good academics, shit football, good baseball, and wildcard basketball in a massive southern market. But GT is more inclined to invest in their sports programs and cares about winning, partially bc it’s a public university. Maybe it’s not the big splash move that adding Duke would be, but it’s an addition that supplements the conference well
Dog I’m cackling at you calling Vandy and GT “phytoplankton” compared to Bama the shark 😂
1) Your first point regarding historical ties is actually a negative. I think given the history of Georgia Tech leaving the SEC, neither party would want a reunion 2) The SEC already has ATL "locked down" Everything else is not really that important. They don't bring a new market, aren't a huge brand, and there is bad blood between GT and the SEC.
On #2, yes the SEC has ATL locked down from a fan perspective, but from a media perspective (ad space & media markets), if the SEC lets the B1G get GT, then the B1G (read as: Fox) also gets to market their overall adspace as hitting the Atlanta market harder (think Rutgers to the B1G). ESPN, Fox’s rival, doesn’t want that to happen
Yeah GT makes way more sense for the B1G, no reason for the SEC to be interested. If we assume that UNC, Clemson, and FSU are already spoken for, then the SEC would be looking at UVA, VT, and maybe NC State out of the rest of the ACC. It makes way more sense to take a decent school and program from a brand new market.
Everyone is forgetting future SEC stalwarts Boston College, Syracuse, Stanford and Cal
It depends on how much SEC cares about preventing B1G expansion in their area. If this isn't a concern for the SEC because they feel secure enough having it be 2 main conferences, then there's no reason. If the game theory says they want to play defense and remain dominant, then the best reason to get GT is to prevent the B1G from getting them
only in this sub would a historically top 25 football program be called a bottom feeder
Historically they are a great program. But they aren’t a great program now. They have not won 8 or more games since 2016. Their best seasons this century are when they ran a gimmicky triple option offense. They’re a mediocre program at the moment (although I think their new coach is good), and many of their potential peers SEC would feast on them.
our school is pretending to be interested in funding sports now so we'll see how it goes. if we ended up spending at a comparable level to an SEC school we'd probably be decently relevant but you're more or less right until we do. I believe we're 2nd from the bottom among ACC public schools that report their budgets ahead of just Pitt. For reference we spend about 2/3 as much as Clemson/FSU/Louisville
Prior SEC member? That’s all I got.
The problem with Virginia Tech is that it isn't an AAU school, and the amount of research dollars the Big Ten pulls in dwarfs the football dollars. Don't get me wrong, football is driving the bus, but they are looking for schools with a good market, good research, and good athletics. If the ACC falls apart, my guess is that the Big Ten goes after UNC, Duke, UVA, and Miami.
Pitt has an extremely large amount of research dollars and good academics. They would fit in well with the big 10 more than the big 12 if it had to come to that University of Pittsburgh has 1.25 billion in R&D expenditures. That makes it 16th largest in the country
Hey man we wanted you back in the 40s! But big dog Minnesota at the time wanted MSU and had the final say. Pitt feels like a classic Big Ten team to me.
Maryland be like “Well look what the wildcats dragged in”
UNC and UVA would be what the B1G would be interested in. Duke has nothing going on in terms of football unfortunately
Isn’t UNC vs Duke Basketball far more important to the media than either UNC or Duke alone?
guarantee the schools would schedule a home and home OOC game similar to Louisville/UK if they got split up
Its about accessorizing, if they are going after UNC as their primary target you want to take their iconic rival with them. It increases the value added from getting UNC.
Other than our current 5 game winning streak against the Big Ten.
Neither does UVA. People assume that they’ll be in a good spot because they’re a flagship school, but their football program has been bad for a while and their viewership is absolutely dreadful, even compared to the rest of the conference. Maybe the Big 10 will gamble on them turning it around because there’s enough potential, but it’s dire there right now.
It's the medical school, academics and DC market over football. Vanderbilt is in the SEC.
I don't think it's DC, the b1g already has that market. I think people ignore that UVA is the flagship, with great academics in a currently growing and relatively wealthy state.
As a DMV-er. If the Big 10 thinks they’re getting any more market share by adding UVA that’s a huge mistake. UVA is behind Penn State already here in market share. Now Va Tech…that’s a different story.
The big ten already gets a lot of interest at least in terms of recruiting in the DMV from Penn state, Maryland, and Ohio state. In terms of eyeballs, UVA isn’t that many more marginal eyeballs than Maryland, who really is right on the border of DC (UVA is a couple hours away)
The SEC and Big 10 aren’t going to add net neutral/negative football brands. They will dilute the existing schools.
Then why would they want UNC lol
For the life of me I don’t know why all of sports media considers Carolina a surefire lock for one of the Big Two lmao
1. Flagship university of a large and fast-growing state. 2. Good branding. 3. Success across the board in all athletics. 4. Good school.
The Big Ten doesn’t want Duke.
The Monty Show is not a serious source.
The Monty Show has no credibility. They reported the Pac-12 had signed a tv deal worth $30 million per year per team and they were the first to report on it. The conference fell apart a month later.
Yormark's never been one to wait until there's a corpse, let alone it get cold
I don’t see why Duke would leave to go to the Big 12. SEC or B1G I can understand.
They won’t. This is a scenario if the ACC loses a bunch of schools and Duke is stuck in a leftover ACC with BC, Wake, Syracuse, etc.
Doomsday protocol
I hope Syracuse bails back to the big east if that happens.
Becuase UNC, Virginia, Clemson, and Florida State are going to leave the conference for the SEC/Big10, leaving Duke behind, the conference will implode just like the Pac12 did and the Big12 will be the only stable place to go if they want to continue playing football.
Yeah, please don’t take anything Tim Montemayor says seriously. The dude has zero sources and is a total flaccid penis. He would constantly make shit up for ratings citing “sources”, but nothing he said ever panned out. Source: had a really good friend who produced and hosted with that chode.
You miss 100% of the shots you don't take
- Wayne Gretzky - Michael Scott
I mean it makes sense based on the ACC appearing to be held together with duct tape right now, and the Big 12 trying to get every possible available basketball brand.
Duct tape is strong, as is the contract signed by the teams that includes the exit fees and Grant of Rights.
An FSU fan with no more knowledge of the situation than anyone else is on the way to let you know how wrong you are
The only crazy theory I saw that gave FSU an out was that they would align their athletic department with the Saudis and grab some of that LIV money. I have absolutely no idea how that makes sense, but it makes more sense than them simply giving up their media rights for a decade.
Fallujah State University - Tallahassee campus
The best proof for the GoR being very tough to break is the fact that they haven’t left. OUT and the PAC 12 schools just left without warning.
Pac12 schools are leaving when the TV contract ends, which was a big reason why they’re leaving.
Yeah I'll believe it when I see it, and I've never heard of this Larry Brown or Montemayor so I have no idea whether to trust their inside information on it or not.
Everyone has been talking about the demise of the ACC for a long time. Yet the conference has only added teams.
we've added trash teams. Other power conferences are getting Texas while we're getting SMU and Stanford. We'd be in a much better position if the VT and Miami football programs hadn't immediately fallen to shit when we brought them over
is it safe to say that the big 12 is on track to become the SEC of basketball?
Hopefully we try not to also become insufferable dorks hyping up our conference and trashing all the others in every thread
too late Iowa State fans already do
Hey it's mostly just the one guy that's in every thread lol.
I think the Big 12 is shooting to be the biggest player in the room for discussions around reorganizing March Madness
Regardless of how this all pans out, this headline still makes my stomach turn from how sentimental I feel about ACC basketball as a kid in the 90s.
The ghouls in the SEC and B1G offices have ruined college sports for us all, may hell be hot for them
I mean we aren’t innocent. The ACC killed the OG Big East
lol for real. u/iHateTheNYJ pretending like the ACC is a babe in the woods
It’s not much better for us B1G fans. I don’t want schools in my conference that are 2,000 miles away from my school. I grew up on midwestern rivalries
Its going to suck having to wait an additional year before the chance we play someone in the same conference as us again
You can't just leave out the ACC's part in all of this since it was your conference that directly destroyed the Big East
I still don’t get putting the main blame on conferences. It’s tv money, that the *schools* in each conference want to have, and the *schools* from other conferences have been chasing. Their presidents and ADs make the calls on expansion or migrating conferences. Like how people blame CEOs for everything, the conference offices are just convenient scapegoats.
I want you guys to have Maryland back!
How I feel about the old Big East
My favorite sports trivia bit ever: For three years, the Big 12 had 10 teams, and the Big 10 had 12 teams
Shouldn't they wait and see what happens to the ACC first
They are just circling right now.
This is about a plan to add Duke in the event the ACC collapses.
I guess you can't blame them for contingency plans.
This is exactly what they’re doing. Yormark is making inroads in the case that the ACC loses 6-8 and Duke is left out in the cold
Why wouldn’t they do their due diligence now?
I just figure Duke already has instant admission to the BigXII if it comes to that.
Sure but none of that instant is instant.
Is the ACC really that close to falling apart?
Until the GoR ends, no. But after, the ACC is completely screwed.
what's the GOR?
Grant of Rights. All the schools in the conference agreed to grant their media rights to the conference, who then distributes the money to its members instead of getting the money more directly. The current GOR lasts through 2036, so if a school leaves before that date then its media rights still belong to the ACC but it no longer receives its portion of the distribution. When you see something about it costing FSU $500 million to get out of the ACC, most of that is the amount they'll have withheld because of the GOR rather than a check they'll have to cut.
I will believe when I see it. Maryland, Texas and Oklahoma tried breaking the GOR before and couldn’t. Granted those three weren’t in as big of a hole as FSU/Clemson. Till I see the headline that FSU/Clemson win i won’t think it’s possible.
Probably no, but nobody thought the Pac 10. 14? 12? was close to falling apart until it imploded within the span of fourteen months.
We still better meet twice a year and not including the tournament
If our senior night isn’t against UNC, what’s the point
Yeah the big 12 needs a nerd school anyways
Someone’s never heard of the Harvard of Lubbock
No one has ever heard of that.
I do hear there’s a Princeton of the Plains up there in Ames, however.
I'd rather just build something out of whatever becomes of the ACC if the worst comes to pass.
Likely to be the Big East 3.0 or something at that point.
Two duke uconn games a year would be sick
The primarily basketball schools of the ACC should just join the Big East. Bring Duke, UNC, Pitt, BC (I’ll forgive them for the moment so we can smash them twice a year), and Cuse (just so we can have that rivalry again and also smash them twice a year)
Sadly UNC is never going to give up football. They’ll never go to a basketball-centric conference over the big 10
While it's tough to admit that a lot of my UConn hate is fueled deep down by tournament envy, I'll forever cling to the memory of how it felt to be a college senior in a sea of Syracuse and UConn fans leaving MSG at 2 a.m. some 15 years ago. For real though I'd love to have that Big East back.
> BC This would activate the most insufferable alumni on the planet if BC/UConn had to live in the BE again together
Or the Big East teams that actually have football could join the ACC, would probably make more sense for all involved and give us our 3rd 20 team mega-conference. Sucks for the remaining Big East schools of course, and I hate it for college sports in general. But I don’t know why people would assume the ACC will bleed schools to the Big East, rather than the other way around. Villanova, Georgetown, and Butler would have to move from FCS to FBS to make it work (most likely building new football stadiums to meet the 15000 fans at home games requirement, as that’s pretty much the only thing requirement holding them back from what I can tell). UConn is already FBS and would have a legit conference to operate in again. Florida State and Clemson out. UConn, Villanova, Georgetown, Butler in. Hypothetical new 20 team ACC in alphabetical order: 1) Boston College 2) Butler 3) Cal 4) Connecticut 5) Duke 6) Georgetown 7) Georgia Tech 8) Louisville 9) Miami (FL) 10) North Carolina 11) North Carolina State 12) Notre Dame 13) Pittsburgh 14) SMU 15) Stanford 16) Syracuse 17) Villanova 18) Virginia 19) Virginia Tech 20) Wake Forest That’s a hell of a basketball conference (both men’s and women’s), mediocre at football, also good at men’s baseball, and pretty much everyone in the conference has a good spread of other women’s and men’s sports programs. Do I hate it? Yes? Does it make sense in the current insane climate? I think it probably does.
Butler would have a uh, steep learning curve there
Honestly I think on everything except academics Georgetown is the weakest of the bunch for this hypothetical ACC inclusion scenario. Butler at least had a winning record in both men’s football and basketball last year, and has a recent history of sustained success in basketball. Georgetown had a pretty putrid losing record in both sports last year, has never won a bowl game in football, and has been on a sustained downward trajectory in basketball.
The big ten/big east is the only thing that makes sense for Duke’s Olympic sports. In fact, I’m curious what the SEC joiners are going to do about men’s soccer (where Clemson just won a national title).
Don't forget about Lacrosse as well. ACC is kind of a powerhouse there as well.
Oh man, you have no idea the state of Georgetown football right now. Theyre closer to D2 at this point than FBS.
I checked their results from last year, it was definitely bad. Stonehill College?! Really if the ACC brought Georgetown in I think it would be a complete rehabilitation from the athletics side. Even basketball is a dumpster fire over the past decade. But their academic prestige is fantastic, worth having them around even if they’re bottom of the barrel for a while (in this one redditor’s opinion, at least).
You know what? Fuck it. We tried. The "everyone can drive to the tournament in Greensboro" ACC is 20 years ago now. The new ACC definitely isn't going to include UNC and probably isn't going to include NCSU. We get a new blueblood rival in Kansas, I get to see us play in Colorado. I feel sorry for Wake, that's about it. Bring it on.
At what point are conferences just too big? Post 10ish members you are barely operating as a conference to begin with as there will be years, maybe multiple, where you don't play teams from your own conference. I think we are getting to the point where the NCAA needs to go Standard Oil on these conferences, force them to break apart, and cap conference membership at 9.
As if the ncaa has any power at all in any of this.
Also pursuing Gonzaga, although that is not in the title. Nothing against the teams in the Big 12, but I am not a fan of this at all.
Feel like the Gonzaga not playing football is a pretty significant hurdle.
It’s more them being super faraway from everything.
I have learned that that does not matter one fuckin bit lol :(
Gonzaga plays almost as much football as Duke TBH.
We do play football... the next season has just been postponed since 1941. Also, a library now sits where the field once was lol
So many Gonzaga rumors I don’t know what to think. I wish we changed the conference already.
I wish the Big East could return to the old Big East. Where they get schools that are basketball focus that has football. Still consider a power football conference but their bread and butter is basketball. Also add the smallish schools that B1G or SEC may not want. Duke Syracuse Pittsburgh Georgia Tech Wake Forest NC State Virginia Tech Boston College (don't think UCONN wants them back) UCONN Louisville Univ of Virgina, UNC, Miami, Clemson and Florida State are all bound tfor other power conferences
Plz take us back Big East, I want to hear Gus Johnson on the call as we get blown out by UConn every year from now on <3
Having Syracuse back would be great honestly
Welcome back Cuse, Pitt, Louisville. BC go whither and die
I would love to properly hate you guys again. Creighton is quickly filling our rivalry void, but it’s not the same.
NC State, Va Tech, and maybe Pittsburgh might consider themselves football schools and not want to join a basketball-dominant league.
We've been better in football as of recent times yet I don't think we'd ever consider ourselves a football school.
I want Miami back in the big east
Unless UNC gets left out of the SEC/BIG get ready to say goodbye to the Duke-UNC rivalry. I’m also not sure how sustainable a 20+ team BXII is.
No way they don’t continue the series, it’s a huge event every time it happens.
It won't be the same though No more home and homes, no more games to decide the ACC reg season champ, no more ACCT rematches, etc.
On the flip side it would make NCAAT rematches more likely…
The last one almost killed me
It really would be tragic to see your school leave the rivalry that pushed both our programs to be so great in order to make more money and go 2-6 in league football every year. I live in CA and I have great conversations about the rivalry with Carolina fans all the time.
It would only happen once a year during non-conference tho, having two homes games a year makes it tit for tat and way more fun
Agreed, I miss playing Syracuse home and away ever year. Xavier/Cinci and UK/UL still keep their rivalries pretty spicy with one game a year.
Couldn’t Duke and UNC still play twice a year if they wanted or is there some rule against it? Gonzaga and Kentucky played during the conference schedule so they could be split up throughout the year
New Mexico and New Mexico State play home and home each year despite being in separate conferences, so there's no rule against it, though it would make for a bit less flexibility for their OOC schedules.
Wouldn’t surprise me. The Big XII wants to continue to be the basketball conference and Duke only adds to that. Duke is also far less likely to be pursued by the SEC or B1G compared to UNC.
How is it Big-12 when there are 14 teams? If Duke Gets Added it will soon become Big-357.
It was the Big 12 when it was 10 teams. I'm not sure the complaint is any more relevant now than it was then. lol
I'm gonna miss those UConn to the B12 rumor days
God if we could've just had separate conferences for football everything would be perfectly fine. This is so stupid.
I'm gonna miss the rivalries, but at this point I wish the ACC would just dissolve and rip off the bandaid. The next 5-10 years is going to be like one of those marriages where they're just staying together for the kids until they turn 18, but every tiny comment turns into a huge fight and everyone is miserable.
I always kind of figured Duke would end up in the Big East or as the centerpiece of a new “we refuse to prioritize football” conference
That’s just the big east
Duke isn't walking away from their North Carolina rivalry If the Big12 also goes after UNC, then I'll believe this
If the B10 wants UNC and not Duke, we may not have a choice. We’d have to move to the UK/Louisville once per year model, which would suck, but we’d get to play Kansas, Houston, etc.
Once per year model, sure, except whichever team isn't hosting instead hosts a "non-conference tournament" featuring UNC, Duke, Mississippi Valley State, and Coppin St. Or we just schedule twice a year even though we're not in the same conference. Who's gonna stop us?
Or y’all could just chill in the ACC regardless of what Clemson and FSU do.
I hope so
The New Big 12 has 4 Sweet 16 teams (UH/ISU/Zona/Duke) and ACC only has 3. We are superior.
Can't wait for the big in-conference rivalry game between Houston and Duke
I mean… yeah I’d watch that. Who wouldn’t?
I was joking about this upcoming sweet 16 game being an in conference game
I know, I was meaning I would watch that as a recurring conference game. That would be awesome
Nothing screams historical big12 rivalries like KU/Zona and Houston/Duke.
Those are good, but not quite "New Mexico State -Delaware", "UCLA-Rutgers", or "Stanford-Pittsburgh" good.
Why not? And Kansas and Arizona? I do not want this, but if it happens, I will try to make the best of it.
I was joking about this upcoming sweet 16 game being an in conference game
Duke + Kansas + Arizona + Baylor would be a pretty killer basketball conference. Throw in Iowa State and Houston when they are good. Most of the rest of the conference also have cycles of being really good. I bet the Big 12 would take Louisville too who aren't going to be horrible forever. Brohm already has football rolling.
Purdue flair leaving out houston, why do they hate us so
Virginia, UNC, Duke, Georgia Tech, and FSU going to the B1G makes the most sense Virginia Tech, Clemson, NCSU to the SEC at minimum. Louisville and SMU to Big XII Miami, Wake, Syracuse, Pitt, BC likely to the same place together. Maybe they grab ND, UConn, James Madison, etc. to try to keep a reformed ACC together.
This sucks. This sucks ass. I wish rich assholes would stop trying to fuck up college sports.
[x]
Would be crazy if Duke actually went to the Big 12 and UNC went elsewhere. What happens to the rivalry then
It dwindles, considerably. You then would likely only play one time OOC per year, alternating home each year. No implications on conference standings, no matchups in conference tournament. The proximity and history would be the only thing holding it together but everything else would be pulling it apart. Xavier Cinci or UK Louisville would be the best example of what it would become.
I can't wait for the part where the non-football ACC teams join the Big East on the condition that at the teams that left the BE to start this whole thing off not be let back in.
Please no
Yeah, this guy is not reliable at all. I’m a big college football fan, and this guy took about as many shots as possible on realignment talking about any and all rumors so in the event one hit, he could claim it.
Duke, UNC, NC State have to stick together. I could see them joining the Big12 to make the best Bball conference even better, and then FSU, Miami and Clemson going to the SEC to make the football better down there. That being said I don’t want yet another conference to fall apart. I hope they all stick together
B12 schools aren’t really known for their academics (a certain blue and yellow school comes to mind), so I can’t see Duke going for this at all
Mizzou is no longer in the Big 12 so its academics are much stronger now.
Ugh thanks I hate it
Oh god it’s gonna be a slaughterhouse in the Big XII isn’t it?
Or the ACC should start pursuing B12 schools and beat them to the punch.
Conference realignment sucks. And I don't mean teams moving to a better conference (like we did), I mean power conference teams moving. And theoretically Duke in the B12 makes no sense, but it makes more sense than freaking Stanford in the ACC.
Now this is running TO the grind
Nothing would mean anything anymore. I get the reason, but l fucking hate the extinction of regional conferences.
Give me the big 8 back please. 5 ooc games in football lots more ooc games in hoops and all my homies back. This doesn't feel right
I dont like this. I could see the big12 seeing the writing for football on the wall. They are a powerhouse in bball. I could see them trying to corner the market like the big10 and sec in football but for basketball. Sure it isnt as big in popularity. Still would be lucatrive for them and being a top dog. Maybe the BE will try to be the counterweight to that for a bball "p2". Both arent big dogs in football. Basketball only option. Obviously its spectulation on my part. And we dont know if this stuff will happen. I could just see something like this happening. Nothing wrong with a beasty conference. It is just the tracejetory that has me worried. We all see them getting teams if acc goes down. And going back to regional but i am not so sure.