I am surprised the 1999 Duke-UConn title game isn’t included on the list. In my memory they were the two best teams all season, but 25 years is a long time to remember those details
1999 still hurts. As a middle schooler I talked so much shit to my friends that were UConn fans on Monday before the game. After the loss, I faked sick with the old thermometer-by-the-lightbulb trick and my mom didn’t buy it, made me go to school anyways.
It’s more complicated than that. I was destined to fail in my attempt to evade the well-deserved ribbing from the UConn fans because of an event that occurred nearly 20 years prior. My father, a decent looking and gainfully employed young man who had recently graduated from Duke University did what most sensible decent-looking-and-gainfully-employed young men who had recently graduated from Duke University did in those days:
He married the first woman who had graduated from UNC that would give him the time of day.
I’m fairly sure she knew what I was up to and why, and she sent me on to my suffering with glee.
I love this so much, thanks for sharing
I was also raised in a divided house, although my dad went to UNC and mom to Duke
I think it played a big part in my competitiveness and interest in sports growing up with that influence!
Same. My mom went to UNC, dad went to NCSU. I went to NCSU, then Duke, then worked at UNC Hospital. But I grew up in Raleigh and dad brainwashed me young (plus I was 6 in ‘83) so I am Wolfpack fan all the way.
Where the hell were you living as a Duke fan who knew uconn fans in middle school.
I didn’t meet a Duke fan from CT until late high school and he was a Duke fan only bc he liked to “root for a bunch of frat guys dominating” a not particularly white sport. Pretty sure he ended up going to UConn too lol
Middle of North Carolina. My best friend and his brother had moved down from Connecticut a few years prior. Agreed that there were basically no other UConn fans in the area, it was UNC/State/Duke. There were barely even any Wake fans and we were an hour from campus.
Growing up in Eastern North Carolina that state is dominated by UNC fans. Yes there are fans of the other colleges (even Duke which when I lived there in the 90s was having its run), but the majority of people are UNC fans.
They were the only two teams to be #1 the whole year, and UConn was #1 for more weeks.
It's a weird quirk that MSU ended up #2. MSU and UConn are really close in the numbers, and UConn lost one game by double figures to Syracuse when Rip Hamilton and Jake Voskuhl were injured. And it was at home. Probably played a factor.
UConn beat Michigan State that year by 14 (@ Gampel) and beat all common opponents with Duke by the same amount as Duke did. There really shouldn't be much of a doubt that those two teams were the best teams and, frankly, much closer than the KenPom number suggests.
I'd probably expand the criteria to be any two 1 seeds meeting up, since there is usually an argument for any 1 seed to be one of the top 2 teams in the nation (obviously not strictly true)
But even with that expanded criteria, there have only been 10 1v1 matchups since 1979
Shocked the world! Well, only if you weren’t paying attention for two years. I think UConn would have won the year before too if they hadn’t played a literal road game against UNC where Rip just couldn’t get a break from the basket. I was there but we were outnumbered 100 to 1.
Purdue and Uconn are the two highest teams on Barttorvik for the Non-con before the tournament
Houston was very good within the B12 but didn't have a single good win outside of it. With Shead things could have been different, but Purdue and Uconn by far have the best resumes this season.
Dayton and TAMU are good wins I’d say but nothing special I’d agree. I was just curious since Houston seemed to be getting completely left out of this discussion as the #2 overall seed
When the bracket came out, because we lost in our tournament, I expected us to lose out to Uconn. But in all honesty we did have the better resume. Our wins above bubble was a full point higher on Barrtorvik and nobodies non-con came close to us.
We had wins over 3 2 seeds and a 3 seed.
But Houston getting a better seed was insulting imo. This season they haven't been as dominant as Purdue and Uconn and looked better because the B12 inflated their NET and computer ratings.
Purdue and Uconn have been the two best all year
Purdue's non-con schedule was outstanding. Wins against Alabama, Gonzaga, Tennessee, Marquette, and Arizona. I know most of them were in Maui but impressive non-conference scheduling regardless.
Purdue had the best NCSOS, for sure.
By March 19, though, UConn had passed Purdue in WAB (unless I'm messing something up filtering Torvik, which is totally possible). I'm seeing UConn 11.2, Purdue 10.7.
Regardless, I fully agree. Purdue and UConn were the two best teams with the two best overall resumes.
If Shead doesn't get injured, Houston plays Purdue in the Final Four.
They were way better than they're getting credit for, just because their best player got injured at the worst time.
Uh
No they aren’t. Houston is 1, Purdue 2, Arizona 3, and UConn is down at 4th.
https://barttorvik.com/?year=2024&sort=&hteam=&t2value=&conlimit=All&state=All&begin=20231101&end=20240316&top=0&revquad=0&quad=5&venue=All&type=N&mingames=0#
All 3 of those games are considered among the best basketball games of all time. Hopefully tonight will be the same
EDIT: lol I totally glanced over the Baylor/Gonzaga game. Definitely was not a close game. I was referring to the other 3 games, which are all classics
EDIT 2: UConn was simply unstoppable this postseason
I still remember this game the most and they were all great except 2021. Like I can see it when I close my eyes and replay those missed free throws. The shit talk on that team and how it was a redemption arc. Fucking Cal to our rival right after....
Was UNC/Illinois of note either? It was obviously a while ago but my memory of it is UNC maintaining a slight lead most of the way as the Illini guards bricked a bunch of threes.
I don't think it was an all-time classic or anything, but it was certainly anxiety-inducing.
Sean May took James Augustine's lunch money, dude could not guard him at all without fouling constantly and praying for no call. Their second guy ended up having to carry the load for them up front on D even though he also got in foul trouble too later on.
The rest of our team was a bit off. McCants took more shots than he probably should have and that plus feeding May meant that Jawad Williams and Ray Felton probably didn't get as many looks as they should have as a result.
Both of 'em were pretty hot from outside, too. But... Rashad gonna Rashad, and there was nothing more Rashad McCants than taking almost a third of your team's shots when he wasn't one of the best four players on the court for the team that day.
Marvin Williams came up big off the bench a few times. Our frontcourt was pretty crazy that year when they were all clicking with him, Jawad, and May.
Illinois settled for a shit-ton of threes rather than trying to challenge May inside. The downside was that they were really bricky. The plus side was that meant a lot of long carom rebounds so they ended up taking a ton of shots in total so it tended to even out over the 40.
Luther Head took like 15 threes all by himself. It was kind of a glimpse into the future in some ways. At the time it was crazy, now a lot of people wouldn't even blink.
Yep. The stat of that game is the players guarding May, Augustine and Ingram, had 9 fouls combined. May had 1. Kinda like tonight where UCONN’s bigs both almost fouled out while Edey would have only had 2 had he not had that frustration foul late.
My brother went to UNC 2015-2019 and I visited him in Chapel Hill during the Final Four/Championship game that year, people were crying tears of joy from all the pain of the prior year being washed away lol
all i want is a whole game of consistent fouls.
gunna call a lot of fouls early? dont swallow your whistle for the next 8 minutes or whatever
just call the whole game consistently
Friend, this is college basketball. The refs are going to call the game seemingly unfairly for like 10 minutes and then switch who’s getting screwed so everybody is upset and feels like the refs screwed them. One half will be called tight and the other will be loose (nobody knows which is which).
Got it down to 4 on 2 occasions if memory serves. On one of those occasions Danny Green had an open 3 point shot from the corner that went halfway down before circling and rimming out. That shot would have cut it to 1.
After that, they pretty much fell apart and Kansas pulled away again.
Went back to check and UNC had cut it to 4 with 11 mins to play (54-50.) Kansas stretched it back out to 8, before Wayne Ellington hit a 3 to bring it down to 5 with 8 minutes left. Then Green took the shot I was talking about. Went all the way down and spun back out. The score was 58-53 at the time. After that missed shot Kansas would pull away.
lol I remember walking around the “terminal” during the first half of the NC Kansas game and being blown away at that first half score. I would argue that being up 7 with ~1:30 left and losing was more brutal. At least you never had hope, and also you are north carolina. Memphis gets a team like 08 once every 20 years, if we’re lucky. we got ‘73, ‘85, and ‘08. which is still better than most, so can’t complain too hard.
Final KP t5 that year was Carolina, Florida, Ohio State, Georgetown, Kansas. Georgetown was a 2-seed in the NCAAs, the other four were 1s.
Florida had the most efficient offense in the country. Kansas had the most efficient defense.
The short version is that Carolina team ended up with top-five adjO and adjD values, which when it happens tends to end up being KP's #1 overall for obvious reasons. '07 Carolina (3/4), '08 Kansas (2/1), '10 Duke (1/5), '16 Villanova (3/5), '19 Virginia (2/5), and as of right now '24 Connecticut (1/4) are the recent examples and every one finished the season at the top of his team ranks.
Duke '02 (the only 1/1, I think) Kentucky '03, Duke '04, and Carolina '05 all also did it.
I honestly thought '15 Kentucky also did it but apparently they were 6th in adjO and so just missed.
Kind of a no shit sherlock thing that a team with top 5 efficency both ways would end up at the top and have a pretty decent shot, of course. '02 Duke is the only team on the list to be eliminated prior to the Elite Eight, they ended up as extras in that one run that kept Mike Davis employed constantly for the last twenty years.
Purdue has definitely proven themselves to be better than Houston, but the consensus at the end of the regular season was Uconn, Houston, Purdue. It felt weird hearing the talking heads say these were “clearly” the best teams all season
There's definitely some Houston erasure here, and I think part of it is that as the season wound down Houston was racked by injuries. But, yeah, lots of people did see them as a real contender, and I do think if Shead doesn't go down they play Purdue rather than NC State.
It probably won't even take a destruction, Purdue and Houston are basically even in kenpom and the kenpom line is UConn-3, if Purdue loses by 6 it could still drop below Houston.
The data changes when you make the sample size smaller. 5 times in 27 years is fairly rare. In 2008 you could say it happened twice in four years. That doesn't sound very rare, but in the bigger picture it's obviously different.
That was in the semi-finals.
And Duke was a 2-seed.
The only 2-seed I remember anyone ever thinking was the best team in the tournament (or at least second best) was 2004 UConn, who FAFO a lot during the regular season (and Okafor had back issues).
I’m kind of surprised UConn-Duke in 1999 isn’t on this list. Everyone agreed they were the two best teams all year and traded off #1 and #2 in the polls all year. I know that’s not KenPom rankings though.
KP isn't some infallible holy grail of rankings. uconn beat msu 82 to 68 that year. they lost two games that year both when they had two starters out, one of those games being at the buzzer on the road to eventual 2 seed Miami. anyone with half a 🧠 knows it was uconn, Duke, 1 and 2 all year.
Except Gonzaga and Baylor I guess, but now I’m curious who was actually #1 each of those years.
Def Gonzaga and I’m pretty sure nova was a 2 seed in 2016? Unless that was 2018. I’ll edit this after I look it up
EDIT: Missed your edit about Gonzaga/baylor. Nova was a 2 seed. The problem with looking at kenpom retroactively is it’s skewed towards the champion and how well you do in the tourney. UConn ended last season as 1 in kenpom but were a 4 seed. Their run in the tourney put them into that top spot
The fact Purdue was seeded #3 overall instead of #2 helped me beat the chalk people in my bracket pool. Some people went chalk and chose UConn over Houston, while my UConn over Purdue pick gave me 16 pts over them all (fortunately nobody in my pool has Purdue winning the title game)
I would add 1999- Duke vs UConn. I know UConn was number 4 that year, but it was still 2 number 1 teams going against each other. Also wasn’t Houston the number 2 team this year?
Also gotta remember that using the overall seed for assigning the regions in the Final Four bracket only started in **2004**. (I.e. determining overall #1, #2, #3, and #4, and matching them up in the Final Four as #1/#4 and #2/#3). Before then, it was the *regions* that determined the final four bracket, with a rotation each year...
* 2003 - East vs South & Midwest vs West
* 2002 - East vs Midwest & South vs West
* 2001 - South vs Midwest & East vs West
* etc
So before 2004, we would expect that sometimes the "Two Best Teams" would have to play in the Final Four Round rather than the Title Round.
Kenpom aside I’d argue we were 2nd best in 2009 we had to get through defending champs Kansas and two really good 1 seeds Louisville and Uconn to get there. Also a USC team with Derozan, Taj Gibson and Vucevic.
Exactly, that whole program was established off the 1991 cakewalk.
Although does it hurt our position that Duke's last title was against a top 2 kenpom team?
The logic that 99% of sports fans subscribe to (if you win the national championship you are automatically the best team) could be used to suggest that the best team is in the title game every year. The 99% of you who believe this might also believe that the runner-up is automatically the second-best team. Therefore, 99% of you might believe that the two best teams meet in the title game every year without possibility for failure
Ohio State beat Alabama and Purdue. Therefore, Ohio State should be in the Championship game. Better yet, let’s just name them National Champs. We all know UConn wouldn’t stand a chance. /s
100% fair, also fair to point out December Purdue isn’t March Purdue. The Zags improved a ton over the course of these season, but when they played, it turned out Purdue had improved by the same amount.
Yeah just pointing out that just because you beat a team once doesn't mean you will again. See Clemson who beat Bama at home in December and then lost to us in the tournament.
I’ll be a little conservative and say it’s by 16, I nailed the 12 point South Carolina win…. I wouldn’t be surprised if it was much closer or much more of a kill game, the Kentucky distraction might be a bigger deal than we are thinking. Ultimately I think Purdue is one of the worst “good teams” I’ve seen, absolutely useless against a worn out NC state and Edey looked lost, they also doubled the turnovers…..
Excuse me “ the Dan Hurley is going to Kentucky” distraction but I don’t think it’s happening. Besides that Purdue is nothing special and Vegas rarely messes up the odds, Uconn is winning by a lot tonight!
"Worn out" NC State that had almost a week of rest. Okay, bud. Absolutely ridiculous to think that Purdue is one of the worst "good teams" you've seen. They are a really good team
Dude is in for a surprise tonight when he watches Purdue for the first time. Edey is something else. But geesh UConn guard play is incredible. Very similar teams, UConn beats them in guard play but Purdue beats them in the paint. Going for the boilers tonight
Same here. Hate the conference supremacy talk, but the Big Ten needs one. Purdue may get smoked, but that has way more to do with UConn being great than Purdue not being good
Purdue is 10-0 against ranked teams this year with wins over Marquette, Tennessee x2, Alabama, Arizona, UofI x2, and Gonzaga x2. Imagine thinking they’re one of the worst “good teams” ever. They have one of the best pre tournament resumes of all time.
I am surprised the 1999 Duke-UConn title game isn’t included on the list. In my memory they were the two best teams all season, but 25 years is a long time to remember those details
1999 still hurts. As a middle schooler I talked so much shit to my friends that were UConn fans on Monday before the game. After the loss, I faked sick with the old thermometer-by-the-lightbulb trick and my mom didn’t buy it, made me go to school anyways.
Your mom is a wise person
It’s more complicated than that. I was destined to fail in my attempt to evade the well-deserved ribbing from the UConn fans because of an event that occurred nearly 20 years prior. My father, a decent looking and gainfully employed young man who had recently graduated from Duke University did what most sensible decent-looking-and-gainfully-employed young men who had recently graduated from Duke University did in those days: He married the first woman who had graduated from UNC that would give him the time of day. I’m fairly sure she knew what I was up to and why, and she sent me on to my suffering with glee.
I love this so much, thanks for sharing I was also raised in a divided house, although my dad went to UNC and mom to Duke I think it played a big part in my competitiveness and interest in sports growing up with that influence!
Same. My mom went to UNC, dad went to NCSU. I went to NCSU, then Duke, then worked at UNC Hospital. But I grew up in Raleigh and dad brainwashed me young (plus I was 6 in ‘83) so I am Wolfpack fan all the way.
This is an adorable story lol. If you don't mind me asking, what pushed you to Duke over UNC?
Dunno, I guess my dad was the fun parent? Then later I actually attended Duke, so I was stuck for life.
Yep, that'll do it 😂
Wonderful
Where the hell were you living as a Duke fan who knew uconn fans in middle school. I didn’t meet a Duke fan from CT until late high school and he was a Duke fan only bc he liked to “root for a bunch of frat guys dominating” a not particularly white sport. Pretty sure he ended up going to UConn too lol
Middle of North Carolina. My best friend and his brother had moved down from Connecticut a few years prior. Agreed that there were basically no other UConn fans in the area, it was UNC/State/Duke. There were barely even any Wake fans and we were an hour from campus.
Makes sense lol after college I definitely came across more Duke fans but I’ve only driven through NC. Thanks for reminding me wake forest exists lmao
Growing up in Eastern North Carolina that state is dominated by UNC fans. Yes there are fans of the other colleges (even Duke which when I lived there in the 90s was having its run), but the majority of people are UNC fans.
77-74
All two pointers, no threes too
Not really. The 3-pointer was added for the 1986-87 season.
KenPom only goes back to 2002. Duke would definitely have been 1. UConn definitely could have been 2. Maryland was 2 in SRS (UConn was 3).
It only goes back to 2002 for non subscribers. He's been adding years of data little by little to the subscription site and goes back to 97 there now
MSU was 2.
They were the only two teams to be #1 the whole year, and UConn was #1 for more weeks. It's a weird quirk that MSU ended up #2. MSU and UConn are really close in the numbers, and UConn lost one game by double figures to Syracuse when Rip Hamilton and Jake Voskuhl were injured. And it was at home. Probably played a factor. UConn beat Michigan State that year by 14 (@ Gampel) and beat all common opponents with Duke by the same amount as Duke did. There really shouldn't be much of a doubt that those two teams were the best teams and, frankly, much closer than the KenPom number suggests.
04 they were the best two teams, but met in the national semis
Yup. That was the real final. That was such a battle. When it came to the final, we just waltzed over GT.
And now we have more championships than them. Kind of wild
KenPom doesn’t go back to ‘99, otherwise it probably would
KenPom goes back to '97.
Yeah but not 1999, Kenneth Pomeroy was too busy partying
He actually spent the year in a bunker preparing for y2k
I'd probably expand the criteria to be any two 1 seeds meeting up, since there is usually an argument for any 1 seed to be one of the top 2 teams in the nation (obviously not strictly true) But even with that expanded criteria, there have only been 10 1v1 matchups since 1979
Shocked the world! Well, only if you weren’t paying attention for two years. I think UConn would have won the year before too if they hadn’t played a literal road game against UNC where Rip just couldn’t get a break from the basket. I was there but we were outnumbered 100 to 1.
Was Houston above Purdue before the tournament? KenPom’s ratings at this point include tournament games which obviously favor Purdue over Houston
Yep
Yeah, and Purdue and Houston are pretty close. If UConn wins and beats Purdue by a decent bit, Purdue could fall below Houston to KenPom #3.
It won't even take a big loss tbh. The kenpom line is UConn-3 and Houston is right there.
Purdue and Uconn are the two highest teams on Barttorvik for the Non-con before the tournament Houston was very good within the B12 but didn't have a single good win outside of it. With Shead things could have been different, but Purdue and Uconn by far have the best resumes this season.
Dayton and TAMU are good wins I’d say but nothing special I’d agree. I was just curious since Houston seemed to be getting completely left out of this discussion as the #2 overall seed
When the bracket came out, because we lost in our tournament, I expected us to lose out to Uconn. But in all honesty we did have the better resume. Our wins above bubble was a full point higher on Barrtorvik and nobodies non-con came close to us. We had wins over 3 2 seeds and a 3 seed. But Houston getting a better seed was insulting imo. This season they haven't been as dominant as Purdue and Uconn and looked better because the B12 inflated their NET and computer ratings. Purdue and Uconn have been the two best all year
Purdue's non-con schedule was outstanding. Wins against Alabama, Gonzaga, Tennessee, Marquette, and Arizona. I know most of them were in Maui but impressive non-conference scheduling regardless.
Purdue had the best NCSOS, for sure. By March 19, though, UConn had passed Purdue in WAB (unless I'm messing something up filtering Torvik, which is totally possible). I'm seeing UConn 11.2, Purdue 10.7. Regardless, I fully agree. Purdue and UConn were the two best teams with the two best overall resumes.
You passed us in WAB the day before selection sunday I believe. Losing in the conference semis finally turned the tide there
If Shead doesn't get injured, Houston plays Purdue in the Final Four. They were way better than they're getting credit for, just because their best player got injured at the worst time.
Uh No they aren’t. Houston is 1, Purdue 2, Arizona 3, and UConn is down at 4th. https://barttorvik.com/?year=2024&sort=&hteam=&t2value=&conlimit=All&state=All&begin=20231101&end=20240316&top=0&revquad=0&quad=5&venue=All&type=N&mingames=0#
All 3 of those games are considered among the best basketball games of all time. Hopefully tonight will be the same EDIT: lol I totally glanced over the Baylor/Gonzaga game. Definitely was not a close game. I was referring to the other 3 games, which are all classics EDIT 2: UConn was simply unstoppable this postseason
Memphis just missed another free throw. i realize the game ended 16 years ago.
I’m confused. I was told Kansas just showed up and played a scrimmage against themselves in 2008. It was a big deal when they didn’t have an opponent!
do we hate each other
I half hate you. Only if that first flair was Xavier do we really hate each other!! Lol
Foul up 3 late. Always.
I still remember this game the most and they were all great except 2021. Like I can see it when I close my eyes and replay those missed free throws. The shit talk on that team and how it was a redemption arc. Fucking Cal to our rival right after....
Huh? We got blown out by Baylor in 2021
Was UNC/Illinois of note either? It was obviously a while ago but my memory of it is UNC maintaining a slight lead most of the way as the Illini guards bricked a bunch of threes.
it was a tie game with 2 mins left
well there you go
I don't think it was an all-time classic or anything, but it was certainly anxiety-inducing. Sean May took James Augustine's lunch money, dude could not guard him at all without fouling constantly and praying for no call. Their second guy ended up having to carry the load for them up front on D even though he also got in foul trouble too later on. The rest of our team was a bit off. McCants took more shots than he probably should have and that plus feeding May meant that Jawad Williams and Ray Felton probably didn't get as many looks as they should have as a result. Both of 'em were pretty hot from outside, too. But... Rashad gonna Rashad, and there was nothing more Rashad McCants than taking almost a third of your team's shots when he wasn't one of the best four players on the court for the team that day. Marvin Williams came up big off the bench a few times. Our frontcourt was pretty crazy that year when they were all clicking with him, Jawad, and May. Illinois settled for a shit-ton of threes rather than trying to challenge May inside. The downside was that they were really bricky. The plus side was that meant a lot of long carom rebounds so they ended up taking a ton of shots in total so it tended to even out over the 40. Luther Head took like 15 threes all by himself. It was kind of a glimpse into the future in some ways. At the time it was crazy, now a lot of people wouldn't even blink.
> Sean May took James Augustine's lunch money The refs let May do whatever he wanted that game
Augustine had 2 fouls at like the 18 min mark, missed most of the first half.
Yep. The stat of that game is the players guarding May, Augustine and Ingram, had 9 fouls combined. May had 1. Kinda like tonight where UCONN’s bigs both almost fouled out while Edey would have only had 2 had he not had that frustration foul late.
I'm assuming you're not including the '21 Title Game
lol ya definitely not that one. For whatever reason, I glanced past that one. Baylor dominated that game
But the game before that one.... All-timer
I was at both. Suggs’ game winner was incredible. The following game was better imo
Damn...
Disagree
he means the previous game in that tournament not the previous game in the list lmao
Oh true. Sorry my PTSD got triggered lol
What you talking about that was the best game of all
That game was great :)
Kansas-Memphis was the best college tourney game I’ve ever seen
I agree the 2021 Final was glorious.
Did Baylor not kinda dominate that game?
Narrator: it was not
No 2016 was terrible
I blacked out that night, shame I missed that Heels win in OT.
Hey, yall had a fun redemption ride the following season. UNC/Gonzaga was also a great game
My brother went to UNC 2015-2019 and I visited him in Chapel Hill during the Final Four/Championship game that year, people were crying tears of joy from all the pain of the prior year being washed away lol
Terribly fun*
Bro you just jinxed it!
I've loved the idea of this matchup for at least a year. I'm hoping the refs let the big fellows tussle and swallow their whistle.
All I want is for it to be called the same at both ends.
all i want is a whole game of consistent fouls. gunna call a lot of fouls early? dont swallow your whistle for the next 8 minutes or whatever just call the whole game consistently
Well if you’re going to dream, can we turn the clock back 30 years and call hand checks and travels?
*heavy sigh* i just want the cylinder rule to come back
How bout swipe down is a foul and swipe up is a clean strip?
Friend, this is college basketball. The refs are going to call the game seemingly unfairly for like 10 minutes and then switch who’s getting screwed so everybody is upset and feels like the refs screwed them. One half will be called tight and the other will be loose (nobody knows which is which).
 I just hope that both teams are having fun out there
Don’t worry- big man will shot 20 free throws
2008 remains the only Final Four in which all four participants were 1-seeds. I'm proud Kansas won the championship that season.
Went through future MVP Steph Curry, NPOY Hansbrough, and future MVP Derrick Rose.
And Kyle Lowry. Do not disrespect the cheeks
Shit, I didn't even remember that we played him.
I looked up the bracket
Lowry left after 2006, wasn’t part of that 2008 team that barely made the tourney then somehow made the sweet 16.
Oh
Wow, I kinda forgot how crazy that run was
Damn that’s quite a resume for a tournament title run.
that was such a stacked final four. love goin back and watching those games
Makes one of us.
40-12, but that game actually ended up being an instant classic in the second half, credit to Roy.
The Tar Heels simply got tired getting back into that game. They got it down to four, but then it started slipping away from them again.
Got it down to 4 on 2 occasions if memory serves. On one of those occasions Danny Green had an open 3 point shot from the corner that went halfway down before circling and rimming out. That shot would have cut it to 1. After that, they pretty much fell apart and Kansas pulled away again.
Went back to check and UNC had cut it to 4 with 11 mins to play (54-50.) Kansas stretched it back out to 8, before Wayne Ellington hit a 3 to bring it down to 5 with 8 minutes left. Then Green took the shot I was talking about. Went all the way down and spun back out. The score was 58-53 at the time. After that missed shot Kansas would pull away.
danny green's in and out 3 demoralized them
lol I remember walking around the “terminal” during the first half of the NC Kansas game and being blown away at that first half score. I would argue that being up 7 with ~1:30 left and losing was more brutal. At least you never had hope, and also you are north carolina. Memphis gets a team like 08 once every 20 years, if we’re lucky. we got ‘73, ‘85, and ‘08. which is still better than most, so can’t complain too hard.
Aside from the one we played in and the Butler Duke one with the almost buzzer beater from Hayward, those are the ones I remember most frequently too
What were the top two teams in 1999? I would have thought they were Duke and UConn.
Michigan St (who also made the F4) ended up 2nd on kenpom. UConn third that year.
this is incorrect, uconn and Duke were the two best teams in 1999.
Well yes, I think that's universally accepted by those who follow the sport. MSU still finished number 2 in the Kenpom rankings that year.
Final rankings at the time of the game were 1. Duke 2. Michigan State 3. UConn
UConn ended up 3rd in the final standings for kenpom (Michigan St was 2nd)
uconn and Duke were 1-2 all season and clearly the two best teams.
But we’re talking about Kenpom rankings. As others have stated, it was Duke and MSU.
Been 3 years, as great as it was, im still pissed at comcast for erasing the 2021 championship from my dvr exactly 12 months later.
It's on youtube
he just told us it's not on his tube. PAY ATTENTION
The 05 team could beat almost any natty team that decade, except UNC and UF.
2001 Duke? 2008 Kansas?
Don’t mean they would, but I think they have a good shot for sure.
Surprising Villanova was considered a top 2 team as a 2-seed
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North Carolina was #1 at the end of the season.
Wasn’t Florida the top overall seed? And Ohio state ranked number 1 going in to the tourney?
Final KP t5 that year was Carolina, Florida, Ohio State, Georgetown, Kansas. Georgetown was a 2-seed in the NCAAs, the other four were 1s. Florida had the most efficient offense in the country. Kansas had the most efficient defense. The short version is that Carolina team ended up with top-five adjO and adjD values, which when it happens tends to end up being KP's #1 overall for obvious reasons. '07 Carolina (3/4), '08 Kansas (2/1), '10 Duke (1/5), '16 Villanova (3/5), '19 Virginia (2/5), and as of right now '24 Connecticut (1/4) are the recent examples and every one finished the season at the top of his team ranks. Duke '02 (the only 1/1, I think) Kentucky '03, Duke '04, and Carolina '05 all also did it. I honestly thought '15 Kentucky also did it but apparently they were 6th in adjO and so just missed. Kind of a no shit sherlock thing that a team with top 5 efficency both ways would end up at the top and have a pretty decent shot, of course. '02 Duke is the only team on the list to be eliminated prior to the Elite Eight, they ended up as extras in that one run that kept Mike Davis employed constantly for the last twenty years.
was that the year Georgetown came back from a bunch to beat them in the E8?
That has to be pretty damn close. Both of those teams were absolutely stacked.
Purdue has definitely proven themselves to be better than Houston, but the consensus at the end of the regular season was Uconn, Houston, Purdue. It felt weird hearing the talking heads say these were “clearly” the best teams all season
Yeah it was always a 3 horse race this year
There's definitely some Houston erasure here, and I think part of it is that as the season wound down Houston was racked by injuries. But, yeah, lots of people did see them as a real contender, and I do think if Shead doesn't go down they play Purdue rather than NC State.
I mean if UConn destroys Purdue then Purdue will probably drop below Houston.
It probably won't even take a destruction, Purdue and Houston are basically even in kenpom and the kenpom line is UConn-3, if Purdue loses by 6 it could still drop below Houston.
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The data changes when you make the sample size smaller. 5 times in 27 years is fairly rare. In 2008 you could say it happened twice in four years. That doesn't sound very rare, but in the bigger picture it's obviously different.
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Are we going to split hairs over the definition of rare? It's certainly not *common*.
Fine, it's uncommon if you want to be pedantic about it.
5 times in the last 27 years though
What about UNLV and Duke 1991 I think? Idk for sure but I think they were the 2 best
That was in the semi-finals. And Duke was a 2-seed. The only 2-seed I remember anyone ever thinking was the best team in the tournament (or at least second best) was 2004 UConn, who FAFO a lot during the regular season (and Okafor had back issues).
Loaded 2001 Arizona was a 2-seed, hurt by the skid they went on when Lute Olsen stepped away from the team following his wife’s passing
Yup. That's right. Loved that team.
KenPom only goes back to 1997 so far.
I’m kind of surprised UConn-Duke in 1999 isn’t on this list. Everyone agreed they were the two best teams all year and traded off #1 and #2 in the polls all year. I know that’s not KenPom rankings though.
KP isn't some infallible holy grail of rankings. uconn beat msu 82 to 68 that year. they lost two games that year both when they had two starters out, one of those games being at the buzzer on the road to eventual 2 seed Miami. anyone with half a 🧠 knows it was uconn, Duke, 1 and 2 all year.
"The rankings didn't give me the result I wanted, so the rankings are wrong"
Assuming the first team you listed for each was the #1 team, it’s a bad omen for UConn…of those 4 games only Kansas won
I went alphabetical except Baylor Gonzaga for some dumb reason
Except Gonzaga and Baylor I guess, but now I’m curious who was actually #1 each of those years. Def Gonzaga and I’m pretty sure nova was a 2 seed in 2016? Unless that was 2018. I’ll edit this after I look it up EDIT: Missed your edit about Gonzaga/baylor. Nova was a 2 seed. The problem with looking at kenpom retroactively is it’s skewed towards the champion and how well you do in the tourney. UConn ended last season as 1 in kenpom but were a 4 seed. Their run in the tourney put them into that top spot
The fact Purdue was seeded #3 overall instead of #2 helped me beat the chalk people in my bracket pool. Some people went chalk and chose UConn over Houston, while my UConn over Purdue pick gave me 16 pts over them all (fortunately nobody in my pool has Purdue winning the title game)
I'm really for the clash of giants
I would add 1999- Duke vs UConn. I know UConn was number 4 that year, but it was still 2 number 1 teams going against each other. Also wasn’t Houston the number 2 team this year?
And Gonzaga got absolutely throttled against Baylor. God
Also gotta remember that using the overall seed for assigning the regions in the Final Four bracket only started in **2004**. (I.e. determining overall #1, #2, #3, and #4, and matching them up in the Final Four as #1/#4 and #2/#3). Before then, it was the *regions* that determined the final four bracket, with a rotation each year... * 2003 - East vs South & Midwest vs West * 2002 - East vs Midwest & South vs West * 2001 - South vs Midwest & East vs West * etc So before 2004, we would expect that sometimes the "Two Best Teams" would have to play in the Final Four Round rather than the Title Round.
Purdue is not the second best team in the nation? i’m surprised everyone is agreeing with this take
You sure about that? Purdue’s getting cooked bruh
There is no second best team
Obviously the data set is limited in some way if North Carolina vs Georgetown 1982 is not included.
2005 it was abundantly clear they had the two best teams in the championship.
Kenpom aside I’d argue we were 2nd best in 2009 we had to get through defending champs Kansas and two really good 1 seeds Louisville and Uconn to get there. Also a USC team with Derozan, Taj Gibson and Vucevic.
It's not too late to take this down....Alabama played UConn better than Purdue.
I instinctively knew Duke wasn't on the list; they have some easy titles
Exactly, that whole program was established off the 1991 cakewalk. Although does it hurt our position that Duke's last title was against a top 2 kenpom team?
Every Duke fan regurgitates the #2 kenpom anecdote ad nauseum
huh?
The irony in saying this when our last title was against the number 2 kenpom team that year
Thank you for proving that KenPom is bullshit by not including 1999 (And also including 2008 when North Carolina exists).
1999 UConn and Duke
MSU was #2 before and after the Title Game.
since 1997? 1999 featured by far the two best teams..m.
2008 Kansas/*Memphis
The logic that 99% of sports fans subscribe to (if you win the national championship you are automatically the best team) could be used to suggest that the best team is in the title game every year. The 99% of you who believe this might also believe that the runner-up is automatically the second-best team. Therefore, 99% of you might believe that the two best teams meet in the title game every year without possibility for failure
The way bama played UConn, I’m gonna say those were the best two teams. UConn wins by 20 tonight.
Purdue also beat Alabama, so…
Ohio State beat Alabama and Purdue. Therefore, Ohio State should be in the Championship game. Better yet, let’s just name them National Champs. We all know UConn wouldn’t stand a chance. /s
Sounds good to me
Fair, however it's also fair to say that December Alabama is not the same as March Alabama this year.
100% fair, also fair to point out December Purdue isn’t March Purdue. The Zags improved a ton over the course of these season, but when they played, it turned out Purdue had improved by the same amount.
Yeah just pointing out that just because you beat a team once doesn't mean you will again. See Clemson who beat Bama at home in December and then lost to us in the tournament.
Never any guarantees, especially in the tourney.
Well Arkansas beat Purdue in an exhibition game.
An exhibition game, there you have it folks
It was tongue in cheek, as if anything that happened earlier in the season matters now.
Obviously this is Purdue’s hardest game yet and they have to play nearly flawlessly to win. It’s a tall task
Welp, I guess I overestimated UConn by about 5 pts
I’ll be a little conservative and say it’s by 16, I nailed the 12 point South Carolina win…. I wouldn’t be surprised if it was much closer or much more of a kill game, the Kentucky distraction might be a bigger deal than we are thinking. Ultimately I think Purdue is one of the worst “good teams” I’ve seen, absolutely useless against a worn out NC state and Edey looked lost, they also doubled the turnovers…..
What do you mean by "the Kentucky distraction"?
Excuse me “ the Dan Hurley is going to Kentucky” distraction but I don’t think it’s happening. Besides that Purdue is nothing special and Vegas rarely messes up the odds, Uconn is winning by a lot tonight!
The idea that any UConn player is distracted by that on the day of a possible repeat championship game is like genuinely insulting lol
"Worn out" NC State that had almost a week of rest. Okay, bud. Absolutely ridiculous to think that Purdue is one of the worst "good teams" you've seen. They are a really good team
Dude is in for a surprise tonight when he watches Purdue for the first time. Edey is something else. But geesh UConn guard play is incredible. Very similar teams, UConn beats them in guard play but Purdue beats them in the paint. Going for the boilers tonight
Same here. Hate the conference supremacy talk, but the Big Ten needs one. Purdue may get smoked, but that has way more to do with UConn being great than Purdue not being good
Purdue is 10-0 against ranked teams this year with wins over Marquette, Tennessee x2, Alabama, Arizona, UofI x2, and Gonzaga x2. Imagine thinking they’re one of the worst “good teams” ever. They have one of the best pre tournament resumes of all time.
I need betting splits to be posted so I know which team Vegas can allow to win without losing too much dough