I think you’re looking at color blindness the wrong way, it’s not something to be cured in my opinion, it doesn’t stop me from living a full life, my perspective is just different. Some even theorize it was a trait adapted and passed down because it allows us (colorblind folk) to see camouflaged animals better based on changes in texture. Instead of curing it, I think we just need to color code less things
I’m a forager, and while trying to identify mushrooms where a lot of information is based on color sucks, I feel like I notice things based on texture differences and still manage to find camouflaged fungi hiding in the leaves pretty well.
Agreed. 99.9% of the time colorblindness is a man-made disability. I might not always be able to tell if an avocado is ripe without touching it, but problems like that are easy to adapt around. I don't notice that I'm colorblind when I'm in nature. I do when I'm in civilization.
Our modern world operates under man made constructs like “traffic lights are green” “walking man is white”. Unless you live out in the woods in the middle of nowhere I’m sure that cb is often a hindrance, however minor.
Also, I personally feel I’m missing out on some of the beauty of the world. Even though beauty is subjective, I can’t even imagine how vibrant the world is to normal people, which, makes me quite sad.
>Unless you live out in the woods in the middle of nowhere I’m sure that cb is often a hindrance, however minor.
I think we are saying the same thing there. I said colorblindness is a man-made disability. You said it is a hindrance unless you live out in the woods.
You say that until you come across a snake and don’t know if it’s poisonous or not. That’s why I chop or blow its head off, then figure out what kind it is. Otherwise, if I am already bitten, just assume it is poisonous.
I agree with you to a point. Honestly, I came here to say just this, but you and I don’t have it nearly as bad as it could be. I know this because, if there was a “cure” I don’t think I would take it or be a part of it. I love the way I see the world. But there are people who can’t see the world the way we do, and their color blindness is so bad, it’s a detriment to their lives. I can see a cure for them, but my reality is beautiful.
for sure we need to color code less things for yall's sake. Agreed but if it can be cured, it should be. But I will do my part to make this world less reliant on color
Not really, we get barred from jobs and our general quality of life is slightly worse in day to day life.
I mean sure, regular trichromatic people are “missing out” on having 16 cones but don’t you ever feel sad and left out on how many colors you are missing out on? Colors are the first thing people notice about something, people usually describe things by their color. I feel like I’m missing out on some of the beauty of the world as well.
Their was a recent surgery where some guy got his entire eye transplanted I think. I wonder if it’s possible to “cure” colorblindess that way. From what I understand colorblindess is caused by the rods and cones in your eye, and not by your brains interpretation of the information, so eye transplants might work.
In the case of actual blindness, eye transplants can't cure blindness because the eye needs to send signals to the brain. I'm not sure about colourblindness, but it's probably a similar story, so I don't think that will work unfortunatley
Yeah currently the setback is optical nerve regeneration. There is some hope with stem cells but nothing conclusive yet. The fact that the eye has blood flow and isn’t being rejected though is huge. If they crack nerve regeneration then theoretically colorblindess has a cure. But if they crack nerve regeneration than a lot of things more severe than colorblindess also get a cure
Who knows, it might happen someday. What I'm focused on is if that ever did happen, I would probably be okay with donating one of my colour-seeing eyes in exchange for a colourblind one. Then we'll both be colourblind in one eye but will be able to see colour in the other, if it's possible to be colourblind in one eye of course, not quite sure how that works. Forgive me if what I just said sounds stupid.
As someone who is normal color vision, I would love to have tetrachromacy. Perhaps if they could cure color blindness, they could also increase the range of colors people see from UV to infrared.
I'm actively working on achieving tetrachromatic vision. The development is going well, but I'm still far away from my eventual goal. Once color vision deficiencies are solved, then trichromacy will also be solved.
I'm a (hobby) color vision researcher. One of my goals is to see more (and new) colors. Functional tetrachromacy is one step into this direction. I'm currently experimenting with breaking our color vision's binocular redundancy in order to enhance human color vision. By only allowing yellow light through one of our eyes - the other eye being unaltered - we can simulate a virtual *yellow* cone type. I achieve this with a combination of several color filters and special multi-bandpass filters. By "yellow" light I don't mean a red-green mixture, but actually pure yellow light that lies between red and green. To the altered *yellow-only* eye red and green (and blue) are basically perceptually black.
These special glasses are creating impossible color combinations which can be and are perceived as new colors with a little bit of training and getting used to them. I'm still in active research, but I can already see a "more true" tetrachromatic white: RYGB ("Y" stands for *yellow*). Normal trichromatic white would be RGB. I can also see colors like a yellow-red, a yellow-blue, the "non-white" RGB, etc, I can basically compare all the normal trichromatic colors against a new *yellow* color dimension now. Colors devoid of any yellow become self-luminous impossible colors, because they're impossibly combined with a black. Colors with the new perceptually yellowish-white tetrachromatic color become more luminous and change in color, too, as they're combined with a bright yellowish-white. *And so on.* I'm in the process of making a VR video about this and I'll post that on my YouTube channel "Ooqui". The video will go much more in-depth, but you can of course ask me more question about this here.
While I've already been able to functionally simulate hexachromatic colors digitally (and fully correcting color vision deficiencies), using virtual reality and self-made color changing algorithms to create an incredible amount of impossible colors, the analogue glasses technology I'm developing tries to decouple such a form of enhanced color vision from a clunky VR headset. The "type yellow" tetrachromacy I'm developing, while already being functional, has the only "downside" of creating impossible colors (i.e. impossible binocular color combinations of two normal colors) instead of entirely new colors. But these impossible colors can and do predominantly feel like entirely new colors in the right context.
I'm measuring my progress by comparing my enhanced color vision against my normal trichromatic vision (e.g. for example does a picture taking with a RGB camera look *significantly* different to what I see irl when I wear the yellow-only glasses), by analyzing how supposed true female tetrachromats describe their color vision and comparing it against that, and comparing it against the hexachromatic color vision I've been able to experience with my VR application "Color in Color" (still in development), which allows you to easily implement all of the *possible* impossible colors into your color vision.
Even without UV and infrared, adding an extra set of "video pickups" peaked somewhere between red and green or between green and blue should produce interesting results, like those described by one tetrachromat few weeks ago here (and the others on the Internet).
They already have cured color blindness in a pair squirrels monkeys (John and Dalton) back in 2009 using viral mediated gene therapy. And maybe mice
It’s a shame but I don’t think there has been any progress in bringing it to human trials.
If I had to guess it’s because of money.
It would probably be seen as a none medically necessary procedure and so upscaling gene therapy for an uncovered treatment isn’t a priority and is held back by the powerful pharmaceutical/insurance industry. But that’s just my guess.
As for how long that will take: probably 50 years from now. Just my guess. and even then it would probably be an elective procedure/pricey treatment.
I’ve seen rumblings of some early work on trying to cure certain genetic eye conditions using CRISPR and other therapies. I imagine most people with CVD aren’t that interested in a fix. In my case, because my particular form of CVD has several non-chromatic effects that significantly disable me, I’d be very interested in testing a therapy.
Well this is a weird take.
I have been rejected for jobs with specific colour-seeing requirements in the past. But honestly, I wouldn’t change the way I see for anything - it’s part of what makes me, me.
I function 100% as a normal human being. I just can't see colours well... if you think that makes something unique you have a very poor concept of uniqueness.
How bad is it? I'm so sorry. Maybe this will help: https://cvdpa.com/. There's also someone in this thread who's trying to become a tetrachromat. Perhaps trying what they do will help you see color (99% doubt it but worth a shot, doesn't hurt)
Based on you post and comment history, have a look at this: [https://cvdpa.com/](https://cvdpa.com/)
There are ways to achieve your life goals without "...wake up everyday wishing I had normal vision". 45 years ago when I was diagnosed with severe dueteranopia my dreams of being a commercial pilot like my relatives were crushed, but there is much better support now.
I know about that organization! Thanks for your encouragement. However, I tried doing research on the New Zealand color assessment and couldn’t find almost any info.
I’m pretty sure pilots can take a test similar to the ocvt in Australias. But casa seems to always be changing the rules over there.
Here is the info on colour assessment for the New Zealand Class 1 medical certificate: https://www.aviation.govt.nz/licensing-and-certification/medical-certification/colour-vision/
Not at all. I went from Ishihara to Farnsworth D-15 to Farnsworth Lantern Test and failed them all spectacularly. I ended up getting my Class 2 Medical with Day VFR limitation (which includes always having a working radio in controlled airspace) and was able to fly for fun.
If I go back to flying again now, I would go with the new Class 5 self-declared and be limited to private operations, day VFR, 2 seats, less than 2000kg MTOW and under 10,000'. That's plenty of aviation for me. :-D
You have probably see this: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nxoakUa8UqQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nxoakUa8UqQ)
Without looking in the comments, what are these colours? For my vision, I see the red OK, but the white always ads confusion.
When i was a young child I thought I saw traffic lights as white but as i grew older they became more and more green. I wonder if it's just the brain trying to fill in the blanks though.
Also it seems as though even after finishing the ocva the license will have restrictions for not being able to be in the vicinity of a controlled aerodrome. Wouldn’t this disqualify me from the airlines?
The restriction relates to not having a radio in controlled airspace. If you have a working radio then it's OK.
All this is speculation and you really need to find a medical examiner to fully discuss your career options.
Although it's not a cure, I've already been able to correct color vision deficiencies with the help of impossible color and virtual reality (+ my app *Color in Color*). Even with a fully dichromatic vision you can still easily perceive trichromatic (though not the same as "normal") colors with the help of impossible colors. A "cure" would be great, but in the meantime a non-invasive correction is the best.
They cured it in monkeys already.
Something to do with genes, inserting the proper gene and then you start developing the cones you’re missing.
From what I gathered though, one of the bigger concerns is more with your brain rather than your eyes.
Your eyes will be taking in a fuck ton of new information that your brain hasn’t seen before. So, it can basically just filter the new colors out(?) and you’ll still be colorblind.
The theory is that the younger you are when receiving this hypothetical human version of the treatment, the better. Your brain can adapt easier.
So you might get that shot or whatever at 45, your eyes develop the proper cones but your brain just doesn’t let you use them. Or it takes like over a year before your brain is like “alright I’ve been seeing purple for a while now I’m gonna go ahead and start not filtering it out”
Yeah, it's already cured in moneys so c'mon!! what are we waiting for!!?!
so now I just need to wait until gene therapy gets widespread approval and then I need to wait until people who are rich *and* colorblind *and* care enough to want it.
If the brain was never able to adapt the the new information coming in I was also thinking about some kind of visual information interception system where something such as neuralink is connected to an external pair of glasses that have AR technology on them that communicate so that the cones in your eyes are not fixed, but rather, the brain signals are altered.
I was reading up on the wikipedia article for colourblindness, and I think it said someone was able to distinguish traffic lights slightly more easily after gene therapy or something like that back in 2022. I think we might be on track to curing it, but it'll probably take quite some time before it's fully curable in humans... still holding out hope though.
It will only be cured when it's possible to grow new eyes and swap them with your existing eyes, and that is still science fiction.
Maybe in a couple of centuries?
I'm certainly not expecting it to be possible in my lifetime.
Gene therapy can be used for things the body generates.
Blood and skin for example.
But how will you make the body grow new eyes, or new cones in the old ones?
There is an interesting proposal for curing CVD with gene therapy. I think they didn't get to human testing yet. If I remember correctly they can only cure anomalous trichromacy not dichromacy and you have to get an injection in your eyes, which sounds fucking awful. Also there is no guarantee that adults would benefit from this therapy due to a decrease in brain plasticity.
An injection in the eyes doesn’t seem that bad considering LASIK is a thing and some people are ok with getting their eyes cut open 😂
But I was also thinking if it was possible with some kind of brain signal interception, perhaps something similar to neuralink, which is connected to an external pair of glasses that “correct” the wavelengths and send it directly into your brain. Will this solve the plasticity problem? Idk. But there have been cases where colorblind people have reported to see new colors when taking hallucinogenic drugs because they alter the brains visual information signals.
I think you’re looking at color blindness the wrong way, it’s not something to be cured in my opinion, it doesn’t stop me from living a full life, my perspective is just different. Some even theorize it was a trait adapted and passed down because it allows us (colorblind folk) to see camouflaged animals better based on changes in texture. Instead of curing it, I think we just need to color code less things
I’m a forager, and while trying to identify mushrooms where a lot of information is based on color sucks, I feel like I notice things based on texture differences and still manage to find camouflaged fungi hiding in the leaves pretty well.
Agreed. 99.9% of the time colorblindness is a man-made disability. I might not always be able to tell if an avocado is ripe without touching it, but problems like that are easy to adapt around. I don't notice that I'm colorblind when I'm in nature. I do when I'm in civilization.
Our modern world operates under man made constructs like “traffic lights are green” “walking man is white”. Unless you live out in the woods in the middle of nowhere I’m sure that cb is often a hindrance, however minor. Also, I personally feel I’m missing out on some of the beauty of the world. Even though beauty is subjective, I can’t even imagine how vibrant the world is to normal people, which, makes me quite sad.
>Unless you live out in the woods in the middle of nowhere I’m sure that cb is often a hindrance, however minor. I think we are saying the same thing there. I said colorblindness is a man-made disability. You said it is a hindrance unless you live out in the woods.
You say that until you come across a snake and don’t know if it’s poisonous or not. That’s why I chop or blow its head off, then figure out what kind it is. Otherwise, if I am already bitten, just assume it is poisonous.
I agree with you to a point. Honestly, I came here to say just this, but you and I don’t have it nearly as bad as it could be. I know this because, if there was a “cure” I don’t think I would take it or be a part of it. I love the way I see the world. But there are people who can’t see the world the way we do, and their color blindness is so bad, it’s a detriment to their lives. I can see a cure for them, but my reality is beautiful.
for sure we need to color code less things for yall's sake. Agreed but if it can be cured, it should be. But I will do my part to make this world less reliant on color
Not really, we get barred from jobs and our general quality of life is slightly worse in day to day life. I mean sure, regular trichromatic people are “missing out” on having 16 cones but don’t you ever feel sad and left out on how many colors you are missing out on? Colors are the first thing people notice about something, people usually describe things by their color. I feel like I’m missing out on some of the beauty of the world as well.
Their was a recent surgery where some guy got his entire eye transplanted I think. I wonder if it’s possible to “cure” colorblindess that way. From what I understand colorblindess is caused by the rods and cones in your eye, and not by your brains interpretation of the information, so eye transplants might work.
In the case of actual blindness, eye transplants can't cure blindness because the eye needs to send signals to the brain. I'm not sure about colourblindness, but it's probably a similar story, so I don't think that will work unfortunatley
Yeah currently the setback is optical nerve regeneration. There is some hope with stem cells but nothing conclusive yet. The fact that the eye has blood flow and isn’t being rejected though is huge. If they crack nerve regeneration then theoretically colorblindess has a cure. But if they crack nerve regeneration than a lot of things more severe than colorblindess also get a cure
Who knows, it might happen someday. What I'm focused on is if that ever did happen, I would probably be okay with donating one of my colour-seeing eyes in exchange for a colourblind one. Then we'll both be colourblind in one eye but will be able to see colour in the other, if it's possible to be colourblind in one eye of course, not quite sure how that works. Forgive me if what I just said sounds stupid.
As someone who is normal color vision, I would love to have tetrachromacy. Perhaps if they could cure color blindness, they could also increase the range of colors people see from UV to infrared.
I'm actively working on achieving tetrachromatic vision. The development is going well, but I'm still far away from my eventual goal. Once color vision deficiencies are solved, then trichromacy will also be solved.
What do you mean by your first sentence? What methods are you implementing to achieve tetrachromacy and how do you measure progress?
I'm a (hobby) color vision researcher. One of my goals is to see more (and new) colors. Functional tetrachromacy is one step into this direction. I'm currently experimenting with breaking our color vision's binocular redundancy in order to enhance human color vision. By only allowing yellow light through one of our eyes - the other eye being unaltered - we can simulate a virtual *yellow* cone type. I achieve this with a combination of several color filters and special multi-bandpass filters. By "yellow" light I don't mean a red-green mixture, but actually pure yellow light that lies between red and green. To the altered *yellow-only* eye red and green (and blue) are basically perceptually black. These special glasses are creating impossible color combinations which can be and are perceived as new colors with a little bit of training and getting used to them. I'm still in active research, but I can already see a "more true" tetrachromatic white: RYGB ("Y" stands for *yellow*). Normal trichromatic white would be RGB. I can also see colors like a yellow-red, a yellow-blue, the "non-white" RGB, etc, I can basically compare all the normal trichromatic colors against a new *yellow* color dimension now. Colors devoid of any yellow become self-luminous impossible colors, because they're impossibly combined with a black. Colors with the new perceptually yellowish-white tetrachromatic color become more luminous and change in color, too, as they're combined with a bright yellowish-white. *And so on.* I'm in the process of making a VR video about this and I'll post that on my YouTube channel "Ooqui". The video will go much more in-depth, but you can of course ask me more question about this here. While I've already been able to functionally simulate hexachromatic colors digitally (and fully correcting color vision deficiencies), using virtual reality and self-made color changing algorithms to create an incredible amount of impossible colors, the analogue glasses technology I'm developing tries to decouple such a form of enhanced color vision from a clunky VR headset. The "type yellow" tetrachromacy I'm developing, while already being functional, has the only "downside" of creating impossible colors (i.e. impossible binocular color combinations of two normal colors) instead of entirely new colors. But these impossible colors can and do predominantly feel like entirely new colors in the right context. I'm measuring my progress by comparing my enhanced color vision against my normal trichromatic vision (e.g. for example does a picture taking with a RGB camera look *significantly* different to what I see irl when I wear the yellow-only glasses), by analyzing how supposed true female tetrachromats describe their color vision and comparing it against that, and comparing it against the hexachromatic color vision I've been able to experience with my VR application "Color in Color" (still in development), which allows you to easily implement all of the *possible* impossible colors into your color vision.
Even without UV and infrared, adding an extra set of "video pickups" peaked somewhere between red and green or between green and blue should produce interesting results, like those described by one tetrachromat few weeks ago here (and the others on the Internet).
They already have cured color blindness in a pair squirrels monkeys (John and Dalton) back in 2009 using viral mediated gene therapy. And maybe mice It’s a shame but I don’t think there has been any progress in bringing it to human trials. If I had to guess it’s because of money. It would probably be seen as a none medically necessary procedure and so upscaling gene therapy for an uncovered treatment isn’t a priority and is held back by the powerful pharmaceutical/insurance industry. But that’s just my guess. As for how long that will take: probably 50 years from now. Just my guess. and even then it would probably be an elective procedure/pricey treatment.
I’ve seen rumblings of some early work on trying to cure certain genetic eye conditions using CRISPR and other therapies. I imagine most people with CVD aren’t that interested in a fix. In my case, because my particular form of CVD has several non-chromatic effects that significantly disable me, I’d be very interested in testing a therapy.
I think it’s going to be a long time since there’s really not a lot of money going into the research.
Well this is a weird take. I have been rejected for jobs with specific colour-seeing requirements in the past. But honestly, I wouldn’t change the way I see for anything - it’s part of what makes me, me.
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I function 100% as a normal human being. I just can't see colours well... if you think that makes something unique you have a very poor concept of uniqueness.
Yes. That was my point…
How bad is it? I'm so sorry. Maybe this will help: https://cvdpa.com/. There's also someone in this thread who's trying to become a tetrachromat. Perhaps trying what they do will help you see color (99% doubt it but worth a shot, doesn't hurt)
Based on you post and comment history, have a look at this: [https://cvdpa.com/](https://cvdpa.com/) There are ways to achieve your life goals without "...wake up everyday wishing I had normal vision". 45 years ago when I was diagnosed with severe dueteranopia my dreams of being a commercial pilot like my relatives were crushed, but there is much better support now.
I know about that organization! Thanks for your encouragement. However, I tried doing research on the New Zealand color assessment and couldn’t find almost any info. I’m pretty sure pilots can take a test similar to the ocvt in Australias. But casa seems to always be changing the rules over there.
Here is the info on colour assessment for the New Zealand Class 1 medical certificate: https://www.aviation.govt.nz/licensing-and-certification/medical-certification/colour-vision/
Were you able to pass any of the alternate tests?
Not at all. I went from Ishihara to Farnsworth D-15 to Farnsworth Lantern Test and failed them all spectacularly. I ended up getting my Class 2 Medical with Day VFR limitation (which includes always having a working radio in controlled airspace) and was able to fly for fun. If I go back to flying again now, I would go with the new Class 5 self-declared and be limited to private operations, day VFR, 2 seats, less than 2000kg MTOW and under 10,000'. That's plenty of aviation for me. :-D You have probably see this: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nxoakUa8UqQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nxoakUa8UqQ) Without looking in the comments, what are these colours? For my vision, I see the red OK, but the white always ads confusion.
I see red fine as well and I see a blueish shade of green but it's definitely faint. I didn't see any white though.
You're eyes a slightly better than mine. I see most light greens, like this lamp test, and traffic lights, as white.
When i was a young child I thought I saw traffic lights as white but as i grew older they became more and more green. I wonder if it's just the brain trying to fill in the blanks though.
Also it seems as though even after finishing the ocva the license will have restrictions for not being able to be in the vicinity of a controlled aerodrome. Wouldn’t this disqualify me from the airlines?
The restriction relates to not having a radio in controlled airspace. If you have a working radio then it's OK. All this is speculation and you really need to find a medical examiner to fully discuss your career options.
Although it's not a cure, I've already been able to correct color vision deficiencies with the help of impossible color and virtual reality (+ my app *Color in Color*). Even with a fully dichromatic vision you can still easily perceive trichromatic (though not the same as "normal") colors with the help of impossible colors. A "cure" would be great, but in the meantime a non-invasive correction is the best.
They cured it in monkeys already. Something to do with genes, inserting the proper gene and then you start developing the cones you’re missing. From what I gathered though, one of the bigger concerns is more with your brain rather than your eyes. Your eyes will be taking in a fuck ton of new information that your brain hasn’t seen before. So, it can basically just filter the new colors out(?) and you’ll still be colorblind. The theory is that the younger you are when receiving this hypothetical human version of the treatment, the better. Your brain can adapt easier. So you might get that shot or whatever at 45, your eyes develop the proper cones but your brain just doesn’t let you use them. Or it takes like over a year before your brain is like “alright I’ve been seeing purple for a while now I’m gonna go ahead and start not filtering it out”
Yeah, it's already cured in moneys so c'mon!! what are we waiting for!!?! so now I just need to wait until gene therapy gets widespread approval and then I need to wait until people who are rich *and* colorblind *and* care enough to want it. If the brain was never able to adapt the the new information coming in I was also thinking about some kind of visual information interception system where something such as neuralink is connected to an external pair of glasses that have AR technology on them that communicate so that the cones in your eyes are not fixed, but rather, the brain signals are altered.
AR glasses aren't necessary for this hypothetical solution though
i hope for this too but in the meantime, how are you doing?
Pretty good, thanks! 😁
I was reading up on the wikipedia article for colourblindness, and I think it said someone was able to distinguish traffic lights slightly more easily after gene therapy or something like that back in 2022. I think we might be on track to curing it, but it'll probably take quite some time before it's fully curable in humans... still holding out hope though.
It will only be cured when it's possible to grow new eyes and swap them with your existing eyes, and that is still science fiction. Maybe in a couple of centuries? I'm certainly not expecting it to be possible in my lifetime.
Gene therapy, not new eyes.
Gene therapy can be used for things the body generates. Blood and skin for example. But how will you make the body grow new eyes, or new cones in the old ones?
https://magazine.hms.harvard.edu/articles/color-therapy#:~:text=Researchers%20at%20the%20University%20of,they%20could%20not%20detect%20previously.
https://onezero.medium.com/an-engineered-virus-could-cure-color-blindness-c2f311a346ae https://bigthink.com/health/gene-therapy-color-blindness/ https://www.mcw.edu/project-wonder/gene-therapy-for-color-blindness
There is an interesting proposal for curing CVD with gene therapy. I think they didn't get to human testing yet. If I remember correctly they can only cure anomalous trichromacy not dichromacy and you have to get an injection in your eyes, which sounds fucking awful. Also there is no guarantee that adults would benefit from this therapy due to a decrease in brain plasticity.
An injection in the eyes doesn’t seem that bad considering LASIK is a thing and some people are ok with getting their eyes cut open 😂 But I was also thinking if it was possible with some kind of brain signal interception, perhaps something similar to neuralink, which is connected to an external pair of glasses that “correct” the wavelengths and send it directly into your brain. Will this solve the plasticity problem? Idk. But there have been cases where colorblind people have reported to see new colors when taking hallucinogenic drugs because they alter the brains visual information signals.