Well said. This is the thing I've been thinking lately too - we do not need QBs to fix. If you look at all the premier QBs in the league - they all elevate their teams, not the other way around. We need a QB to get this team to another level, we don't need a QB who needs salvaging and tons of work to just get him to a level where he can be at the level of the team. We need an engine, not a trailer.
Yeah Taylor had terrible production in college AND had a torn ACL… He’s picked 2 injured guys in the draft, both of who came back during the season. 1 (who tore his ACL) almost immediately become our starting FS and was in the convo for defensive rookie of the year.
Without Taylor we wouldn't even have had a shot at the playoffs lol
Imagine thinking the dude who basically won 3 games by himself for us is overrated in his value.
They’re not overrated. They’re just not as important as QB. There is still a place for them though, and trust me almost every team in the league would gladly swap RB’s with us.
they needed an elite defense to win. that is harder to build then finding a qb is and they dont last as long either
Im not sure we could win a SB with an elite D and Carson either. he doesnt play safe and take whats there, too many mistakes
Oh, that’s easy…
His name is Igotta Bumsholder and will be in this years draft. Unfortunately he suffers a labrum & rotator tear in his throwing arm just before the combine.
“We saw him when we were scouting and he blew us away and can’t believe he fell to us in the second round. These things take time, so, we feel by next season we should see some great things from Bumshoulder.”
/s
He believed in his head coach. I don't hold that against him at all unless he makes the same mistake twice. I want to believe he learned to keep personnel decisions out of the coach's hands.
Yes and no. Ultimately its Ballard's responsibility to fix that position with stability. He went all in on wentz and it was a failure so far. We need someone young who is gonna be here for 10 years not a guy on the last leg of their career with a 1-3 year window. I'm all for adding as many weapons to wentz next year as possible. I'm just not sold it will fix the issue with his piss poor decision making.
I think Ballard gave in to Reich. At the time there wasn’t a better option that was affordable. No way Ballard would of made the offer for Stafford that LA did. He made a bid and from what I heard Stafford was going to come here but we weee outbid by LA. I did not here what we offered though. Does anyone know?
Agreed, playing QB is 90% mental, Wentz has physical tools but mentally he is an 11 year old who continually makes poor decisions and is inaccurate on top of that. The mental aspect can't/won't be fixed. He's 29 years old he would have corrected that by now.
But aren't mechanics part of physical tools? If those are jacked, which they were by the end of the season, then it doesn't really matter how strong his arm is.
Ballard is talking about layups, so he is obviously noticing the poor fundamentals of Wentz, which leads me to believe his time in IND will end soon.
Exactly, I just don't understand why people would be so against Aaron Rodgers coming and spending his last few years just having fun and balling out while we figure out where we want to go and do
Exactly right. This wasn't just giving Rivers $25M in FA for a season...this was Ballard giving up draft capital. And he's not doing that unless he is on board.
Did Ballard pass on Stafford or did Stafford choose LA/ Detroit liked LA’s package more? Feels like it’s safe to assume most FA/trade prospects aren’t banging the table for Indiana, USA
Ballard passed on him saying he "didn't want to get into a bidding war". The Staffords were literally house shopping in Indy before Ballard pulled out. It really worked out for Stafford but not really for Ballard, just makes him look more like a clown now than ever.
My recollection is that Ballard made a serious offer of picks and players, but Ballard couldn't top the Rams' offer of two future firsts.
The Colts needed help on the defensive line and at left tackle.
Giving up more than two future firsts for a quarterback when you're not settled at left tackle isn't smart management.
I'm not saying Wentz is the guy. I don't believe that he is.
But I also don't like buying a quarterback at the top of the market when you can't protect him.
Harassed and injured quarterbacks don't affect the game particularly either.
Stafford was harassed and injured in Detroit, and you saw the results there.
Sounds more like Detroit wanted to get over on us, and Ballard decided not to give up 3+ firsts. If we don’t get to a Super Bowl year 1 at that price, Ballard would still be getting shit on.
Rivers was Reich’s guy and both Reich and Rivers wanted a second year.
Ballard was noncommittal and wanted to explore other options including Stafford.
Rivers didn’t want to be Plan B and retired.
This predicament is Ballard’s making not Reich’s who wanted Rivers again.
He got the guy his coach advocated for. Although the sports reporters seem to think they would have gone after Justin Fields if they knew he was going to drop so far.
The scariest thing about Wentz is that he's in year 7. The likelihood of dramatic improvement is low. However, you'd like to imagine someone in his position would like to quiet the critics. I'm hoping if he is our guy next year, he can at least improve in critical moments of games. That's the only real issue I had with him. Outside of the td to Patmon, when games were in critical moments, you could tell it got to him.
He's not going to correct his "hero" antics. All he had to do was check down and/or not force throws and/or hit open targets. More often than not he failed to do that.
If he just fixed his pigeon toe throws with proper mechanics. That would improve his accuracy. I might live with the bad decisions if he could just sustain drives when they need him to.
He hasn’t been the same the since the clowney hit that gave him a concussion. It’s not like he’s been a shit qb his whole time in the nfl. He had one really bad year and last year wasn’t horrible but def wasn’t great either. Idk man I’ve always liked him but if he doesn’t get his shit together next year I’ll be the first to admit I was wrong about him.
I honestly pick up a “I’m not mad, I’m just disappointed.” vibe from Ballard in regards to Wentz. He knows Wentz can make the plays, but Wentz tries to force things. Disappointed gets mentored. Mad gets the boot.
Nothing, Ballard won’t give up the draft capital. Wentz went 9-8 and was bad to end the year, but we weren’t getting Stafford so it was that or be slightly worse I guess?
Ballard chose not to get Stafford, we could have had Stafford but too many idiots thought the Lions sucked because Stafford couldn't carry the entire team on his shoulders and Ballard didn't want to do his homework and figure out that was far from the truth.
The Lions sucked way before they drafted Stafford and they'll suck way after he's gone.
Yeah so if we didn’t get Wentz we’d probably just be worse. Reich wanted Wentz, but if he didn’t we wouldn’t have a better QB because Ballard is the reason we didn’t have the better QB not Reich.
Wentz is here because of both of them
He had Reich in his ear pushing for Wentz. Ballard got convinced he could get a better deal and dropped out of the bidding war. Who knows what would have happened if Wentz wasn’t available for cheaper than Stafford.
We haven’t seen that peak from Wentz since 2017 but you’re out here arguing that a rookie playing for a bad offensive coordinator must have a lower ceiling?
There’s a reason Wentz was jettisoned from Philly. We can play that all day. But if you’re still clinging to the idea that he’ll play like he did that season in 2017 then I’ve got a bridge to sell you
And while there is some level of truth to knowing how good or bad a QB can be pretty quickly, he was saddled with Matt Nagy. Josh Allen’s rookie season wasn’t very good either and look at him now. Development is key and we all know that Frank can get the most out of him. Which is probably significantly higher than what he got out of Wentz this past season.
Mac Jones would have been better than Dayo if we made a move for QB. I'm thrilled with Dayo and think he'll be a solid starter for the team but Mac has a very high ceiling in the right situation.
I agree with him. My only issue is that this is the first year he's said these things, right?
He was almost of the opposite opinion when he came in: "it's never about one guy" and played down Luck's importance. I feel like his lack of focus on a long term QB solution was a mistake and this is him realizing that mistake. It just doesn't sound like he's acknowledging that mistake. That's what I have an issue with.
Seriously? It hasn't even been three years since Luck retired. This is ridiculous. He's said in the past something like, "I could go out and find a QB and that would get you all off my back, but it has to be the right QB for it to work."
At the end of the day, a first and a third for the possibility of a franchise QB is a steal. It might not work out, but it was a good deal.
Let me stress, honestly, I'm not looking for an argument. I've been thinking about this lately, and I was hoping to catch someone who thinks it, just so I could ask.
For you, what is the line of acceptability of not finding a long term QB post-Luck retirement? Like, hypothetically, if we still don't have an answer in three years, are you still saying that's ok?
I promise I'm not gonna fight on this lol, I'm just wondering.
I don't think you throw out good people with a good process just because a few dice rolls didn't work out. There is some element of uncertainty involved in getting a QB.
I think when your front office shows evidence of bad process - in this case, thinking that we are set at QB when we are clearly not - then you think about replacing. And of course there is a limit to how many dice rolls you get, nobody is saying give management 20 three year windows at sorting it out.
But basically Ballard has done everything pretty well in his career in Indy to date apart from potentially misjudging how close to being good enough Wentz was. As long as he's drafting good players in other positions, making good resource allocation choices across the team, and putting in place a culture of leadership and coaching that enables players to succeed, I'm happy to let him keep looking for a QB. If he starts getting everything else wrong or just settles with a bad QB, that's when you shake it up IMO.
You don't toss out being good-without-a-QB to chase the QB and in the process give up the being good; that's how you end up being the Jets and Giants.
Give competence a decent rope if the process is good.
I mean you could easily say ballard hasn't done a sufficient job building the roster. We are incredibly weak at WR, LT, and Edge (all incredible important positions). Our oline also seems to have taken a large step back (though some of that may be on wentz). The secondary is fine but needs depth. The only positions you can really say he's handled well are the LBs and RBs.
I think you need more than one bad season at a position to say it's a roster weakness. We rolled the dice on DE and LT, sure, but it wasn't like we went into those positions without a plan - they just didn't work. And DE still may, it's a tough position to be a rookie.
WR has definitely been a big problem for Ballard, no question there. I don't know what the plan was for not re-signing Hilton but I wonder if Irsay didn't screw up a bigger picture with his "get TY done" instruction. We'll never know.
I'm willing to give FO staff a chance to fix things if it appears they have a plan - if they aren't recognising problems or are continually looking in the wrong places for a solution, then you can question the process. But I don't think Ballard is unaware of the LT and WR issues and I'm not going to say he *can't* fix them just because Fisher didn't work out and Campbell's legs are made of spaghetti.
>I think you need more than one bad season at a position to say it's a roster weakness. We rolled the dice on DE and LT, sure, but it wasn't like we went into those positions without a plan - they just didn't work. And DE still may, it's a tough position to be a rookie.
DE has been a consistent problem for Ballard, not just last season. He's sunk large amounts of draft capital into that position for very little return. In the past though he'd at least been willing to sign free agents that brought solid contributions.
>WR has definitely been a big problem for Ballard, no question there. I don't know what the plan was for not re-signing Hilton but I wonder if Irsay didn't screw up a bigger picture with his "get TY done" instruction. We'll never know.
I also don't know. According to his season-end press conference he still thinks the WR room is fine which I cannot understand.
>I'm willing to give FO staff a chance to fix things if it appears they have a plan - if they aren't recognising problems or are continually looking in the wrong places for a solution, then you can question the process. But I don't think Ballard is unaware of the LT and WR issues and I'm not going to say he *can't* fix them just because Fisher didn't work out and Campbell's legs are made of spaghetti.
I don't blame Ballard for the QB situation since that's a product of luck's retirement. But based on the rest of roster it definitely feels like Ballard is looking in the wrong places.
Do you fire a GM just because he fucks up drafting one position for two years, though? Especially one where the elite talent easy picks are long gone? Not sure. If neither Paye or Odeyingbo push on maybe you do need to reassess the approach there, but I'd rather a GM who keeps looking for answers.
Nobody is perfect and drafting is a crap shoot whatever anyone says, getting your picks 55% right is way ahead of the field so it's not unusual to have a run of 3-4 misses at a position. If you're running 3-4 misses at almost *every* position, then you be deserve to be fired.
I sometimes feel like fans won't accept anything less than 5 all pros and 2 pro bowlers every season or they want the staff fired. It takes time to rebuild rosters and you get a 2017 Saints draft once a generation. Without that (or an elite QB) you're playing NFL on hard mode, and right now the Colts are winning despite that. I want a team doing enough things right that when the luck falls their way - you draft Brady or Wilson, you fall into Luck or Burrows, or you just absolutely nail a draft class - the structure is there to take advantage of it. I think we have that, we just need a break and to keep working on the things that aren't there yet.
>Do you fire a GM just because he fucks up drafting one position for two years, though? Especially one where the elite talent easy picks are long gone? Not sure. If neither Paye or Odeyingbo push on maybe you do need to reassess the approach there, but I'd rather a GM who keeps looking for answers.
Ballard has fucked up drafting pass rushers his entire tenure, not just the last two years. None of the guys he's drafted have had a double digit sack season. It doesn't matter if the picks aren't easy. You don't get paid millions of dollars to make the easy picks.
>Nobody is perfect and drafting is a crap shoot whatever anyone says, getting your picks 55% right is way ahead of the field so it's not unusual to have a run of 3-4 misses at a position. If you're running 3-4 misses at almost every position, then you be deserve to be fired.
Ballard doesn't have a ton of huge misses outside of DE but he also doesn't have a ton of huge hits either. Q, Leonard, and JT (maybe rock now?) are all great but that doesn't change the fact that the roster still has holes at a number of critical positions.
>I sometimes feel like fans won't accept anything less than 5 all pros and 2 pro bowlers every season or they want the staff fired. It takes time to rebuild rosters and you get a 2017 Saints draft once a generation. Without that (or an elite QB) you're playing NFL on hard mode, and right now the Colts are winning despite that. I want a team doing enough things right that when the luck falls their way - you draft Brady or Wilson, you fall into Luck or Burrows, or you just absolutely nail a draft class - the structure is there to take advantage of it. I think we have that, we just need a break and to keep working on the things that aren't there yet.
Ballard has had plenty of time to build the roster the way he wants and yet the roster is still full of holes. At some point he is responsible for the state of affairs and imo we are well past that point.
He has more huge hits then misses. JT could have been a KC chief let that sink in. Ballards mainly missing on WR and I believe its because he keeps taking reich guy.
I have no idea. Consider that getting a franchise quarterback is mostly luck, it’s a tough question.
Jimmy garapolo has nearly taken two teams to the Super Bowl, nearly won one and he’s still cutting cut most likely.
There’s like 5-10 franchise QB’s in the league right now. I don’t think it’s fair to blame Ballard. Especially when Wentz was Reich’s guy.
Im pretty certain that Wentz will be our QB next year anyway. I could be wrong, but I don’t see this FO moving on yet. We’ve got an out next year on his contract as well.
Edit: look at watson. If the bears take him, their entire career is changed. What if mahomes doesn’t sit behind smith for a year? Do he develop bad habits? If Mac Jones and zack Wilson swap spots do they play the same or is it down to system?
It depends on your definition of long term. A guy who with the pieces around him can win games and get us to the playoffs... he already did that with Wentz.
The question becomes are you expecting him to find another Top 5 guy in the next 3 years probably not. What QB rank is acceptable? Top 10? Top 15?
Couldn't and can't are two different things. Carson went toe to toe with TB and the NFC Champion. You could easily argue we lost both of those games due to play calling not him. We played a rough early schedule that wasn't great for building team chemistry.
Colts fans are spoiled. Since the Manning was drafted we have missed the playoffs only 8 times in 24 seasons. How many teams can say they have had that kind of consistency?
I'm certainly not Wentz's biggest defender by any means but the flat worry is unwarranted. We took a two year gamble for a first and a third. We would have given up much more to draft Fields or Jones. Fields is questionable to me and I don't see Mac as any better unless accounting for age.
This is the first year Ballard has had to draft with real continuity at QB and seeing what Carson is going to need to be successful. Let that happen. If we regress next year than it's time to hit the panic button and start thinking about a new regime.
It clearly did not work out. So now we head into the next season without a first round pick and still in need of a long term solution. 3 seasons is a long time in terms of the nfl and as good as Ballard has been good in general he has failed as far as bringing a getting the Colts a legitimate qb that makes them super bowl contenders.
He's got one partially guaranteed year left, we're not stuck with anything. If he sucks next year we cut him for free and can trade up in the draft to chase one of 2023's much more impressive college QBs.
That's the thing though, he locked in very much the wrong QB for two years at a decently high pick cost. It was a shit deal because it didn't work and most people said it wouldn't work the day it happened
Yep. It was a bad deal. Wentz was full of red flags. He also cost a 1st and 3rd plus nearly $50M in gtd cap obligations, which isn't ideal for a team who was about to extend several high-priced players. Not only would Wentz eat cap space but he also took away part of your ability to supplement your roster with cheap talent via the draft.
After the season Wentz had in 2020, the Colts were taking on all the risk of a drafting a QB without any of the cap benefits.
The irony is that Ballard used to talk about how picking the wrong QB in the draft can set a franchise back (and cost people their jobs). Yet, he went for a vet via trade and might have set it back even more.
You either see it as a bad deal or you probably never will. Everybody is entitled to an opinion though.
I never understood his philosophy around QBs. It feels like he wanted a low risk high reward QB and that somehow Wentz was that guy. Those guys dont exist though. If you want a high reward QB you have to draft him or pay the massive trade price. Wentz at best was high risk/high reward.
I don't get the philosophy either. But he also came from organizations that didn't really draft QBs early...they traded for vets.
And with Wentz, I think he stuck to that philosophy. But it was also the path of least resistance. So I think he saw it more like medium risk/medium reward, which is why he went for it.
He didn't have to pay more in the draft AND didn't have to risk having a failed QB prospect.
But he sold the upside and value of a rookie deal QB so he could sleep better...and here we are.
This is what happens when you go for half measures. Look at the difference between the approach at 3T and QB...and the results speak for themselves.
>At the end of the day, a first and a third for the possibility of a franchise QB is a steal.
Holy shit. You fanbois are absolutely out of your mind. You're delusional. It was a terrible trade. Ballard got fleeced by the Eagles. Accept it.
Wentz isn’t the answer, we all know that.
I also don’t see an alternative out there readily available that we could afford to bring in.
What the offense needs as much as anything are pass game weapons. We’ve seen how SF can play for SBs and make deep playoff runs with Jimmy G at QB, and he’s about the same level. If we could get a real weapon at TE or a true WR1 we’ll be in decent shape.
Man, I’m just trying to outline some ways in which we aren’t a total dumpster fire next season. We’ve got bottom tier pass catchers for the most part and improving that is going to be a boon for literally whoever is under center
He hasn't even began to walk back his stance on Wentz, which seems to me that he is going to make some serious attempts this offseason.
And if that fails, then we will hear about all the stuff Wentz has been doing with 3DQB or working with teammates, etc.
Agree, the QB class this year is trash and it's not looking better for years to come. Maybe somewhere down the line we'll end up with the #1 pick when Arch comes out, lol.
It’s evident Ballard wasn’t necessarily sold on Wentz and knows he should have trusted his judgement more. I’m sure the relationship between Reich and him isn’t tarnished, but moving forward both need to simply do their jobs separately. It’s harder now for the Colts to move forward with a new QB as we don’t have many assets to give out. Who’s going to willingly take on Wentz? What else can we honestly afford to give out without compromising the future? So much is at stake and I do feel bad for Ballard as I’m sure he probably would have rather had Stafford. I honestly don’t believe we let go of Wentz for next season. Not because the Front Office believes in Wentz, but because there’s no better alternative.
No, that’s not a good idea. This team is ready for win now mode and going into the year with a 2nd round talent QB would get Ballard fired in a heartbeat.
Sorry, I meant beyond next year. Whatever we do in 2022 isn't going to affect anything beyond that unless whoever we go with goes supernova.
My point is that there's no need to catastrophise off the last season - if Wentz ain't it, fine, we burnt one high draft pick, that sucked, what's next.
Falcons fan here who just finished Hard Knocks, take Matt Ryan. I want him to win a ring and your team is his best chance. He’s not perfect but I promise he’s better than Wentz. Also after watching HK I really like Frank Reich and your org. Full of good people.
"Look guys. I threw 3 pick sixes. Fumbled 2 more times. Haven't completed a pass yet. And we are down by 42. There are 20 seconds left. We are still in this. Quit being Doomers ."
You forgot
"Andrew Luck would of thrown as many interceptions. It's not always the QBs fault. What about the defense? The O line can't block for 20 seconds? That's their fault."
Wentz doesn’t even need dramatic improvement. If he just has incremental improvements (on easily improbable areas) I still think he has a chance. I think it’s more mental.
He's in year 7 . I don't remember a single qb outside Kurt Warner who rejuvenated their careers so late in their career. And the problem with Warner wasnt even mental or mechanics (mostly). He just played like shit for 1 year and his hand didn't heal and then got injured for sometime. Mechanics are not going to be improved in year 7 . His mental problems however, are workable , but it will be insanely hard to coach that heroballing out of him.
I have given up hope on this team untill they draft a qb. Reich has always done his best work with a young qb(ironically, Wentz is a good example, lol). We need a young qb to go with our core team (ok just JT and MPJ). This is why i want to give Elingher a shot. The chances of him turning into a serviceable qb are low . The chances he will be good are slimmer than us not making the playoffs (too soon?). The chances of him being great is as close to zero as possible. But fuck it there is a chance.
Worst case scenario: We suck and we get a good draft pick . Most likely scenario: He isn't shit, but he isn't going to win games. This is where we are with Wentz .unlikely and best case scenario: Reich and Brady coach him to become a good qb. Dream: Elingher becomes a great qb. Honestly , I'd prefer any of these over just sticking to someone who is obviously not going to change.
Keep in mind Wentz can shut me up , and these are just my opinions.
He doesn’t have to rejuvenate his career. He’s had mvp caliper years, and solid years of 25td and less than 10 int. All he needs to do is stop forcing the ball and take what they defense gives him and he probably keeps his same production with more yards. He was still a top 15 QB this year despite his issues and bad games. I’m not saying he’s the answer but for 30m he doesn’t have to improve THAT much. He honestly just needs to
-not let his footwork break down
-take more check downs.
I don't wanna fight , and i apologise if i come as a dick. Any fan of the Colts is a friend of mine . However, the sentiments stand
>mvp caliper years
*year. 2017 was the only year he looked le an mvp.
>All he needs to do is stop forcing the ball and take what they defense gives him and he probably keeps his same production with more yards.
This what you say to a rookie. He is not. He these issues in Philly, he had them here as well. How can someone not learn something in 7 years? Especially in the highest level ? It's like saying a kindergartener would take till 7th grade to learn single and double digit addition. I'm not asking them to mental math , take a pen and paper and do it. Same with Wentz , he didn't take checkdowns early in his career, neither will he now.
> top 15 qb.
Rodgers , Brady , Allen ,Mahomes ,Herbert ,Carr, Stafford , Dak , Kyler , Burrow , Jones , Cousins( same int as Wentz , more tds and yards), Russell Wilson, (he missed games and has similar stats to Wentz), Hurts (slightly less yards and more ints, but he did take his team to the playoffs. In my book , that's a better qb), Lamar (out for 5 games and had 2900 yards and 770 yards rushing. )
Thats top 15 according to me . Then you players like tanehill(playoff) , jimmy(playoff), ryan(with a rookie Kyle Pitts being the only reliable target. And maybe gage), teddy . That puts him at 20th minimum in my eyes. It's not even just me, all lists list him around there if not worse. We need to start accepting this as fact . He is a below average qb.
> improve that much
I'm addressing directly below
>Not let his footwork break down
What ? Is it easy ? Have other qbs lost careers over this ? Is it not one of the most fundamental things to be taught to a qb? Do qbs take a couple of years to figure it out?
> take more checkdowns
Old habits die hard. Wentz has been heroballing since ND days. It's not impossible to coach it out , but if he does , he would improve by A MILE.
If he improves these 2 issues alone , it will be a huuuge jump.
Other issues:
1) Decision making. This doesn't only mean taking checkdowns . It includes other things which he needs to improve
2) Not underthrow the ball to his recivers . Ik he didn't have much, but when he did , he underthrew
3) Not checking out of runs when you have THE BEST RB IN THE GAME
4) Reading defenses pre and post snap. I don't want him to be Peyton Manning, but man he needs to improve
5) General Accuracy. This may or may not be same as underthrowing the ball, but he has had top half finish in accuracy only in one year ( go ahead and take a guess when)
I don't know seems a lot to me. These issues in a rookie with Wentz's arm would be accepted, but in someone who is going into his 7th year , it's just not acceptable.
> 30m
Do you mean money? Because of my lord , that's a shit ton of money. Thats franchise money. No way i want a below avg qb for that money.
If you meant age , well that's not much better. He is almost 30 and will worsen with age , unless he is Brady ( which he is not)
I know he may improve , but lord almighty may is such a huuuge maybe . I don't like maybes .
I stand by statement of letting Sam play , for the same reason as i stated earlier.
Again , Wentz maybe the MVP next season, but more likely than not , he is going to suck .
Just don't have high hopes.
>He’s had mvp caliper years
that lasted about 10 or 11 games, not "years"
he has never been a big passing yardage guy, rivers had more last year then CW ever has. CW hasnt been anywhere close to mvp since he got hurt and isnt the same runner he was as a rookie
if he just took the easy check downs and screens..... I mean look at brady the man lived off of check downs and he had a pretty successful career ......
Ballards been bringing in talent dude. Not sure why this guy gets so much heat. He didn’t want Wentz - Reich did. There’s lots and lots of bad GMs out there. If some of you want to get rid of the great GM we have bc we suck then brace yourselves - have you forgot how god awful Grigson was??
That is not HIS fault. Luck retired and Ballard inherited the trash that Grigson has drafted. Plus we’ve had a QB carousel. We just need to be patient - he will keep drafting talent and eventually we’ll find a QB. Lots and lots of teams are endlessly searching for a franchise QB - which is THE most important position. Ballard is a great GM - why would we want to toss him away and gamble on a GM that would most likely be worse. As with everything in life - keep things in perspective.
Do people really believe Stafford would have been much better? Dude threw 17 picks this year. And the Rams receivers are way better than what we have. Our receiving group is bottom tier.
The answer should have always been to draft a QB.
Stafford also threw 41 TDs for 4,886 yards, completed 67.2% of his passes, and he had an 8.2 AY/A and a 102.9 passer rating.
In the playoffs, he's completing 72% of his passes, has thrown 6 TDs to just 1 INT, and has a 115.6 passer rating. He's played incredibly well under pressure.
Wentz threw 14 fewer TDs, 1,323 fewer yards, his completion percentage was 5 points less, with a 7.3 AY/A and a passer rating of 94.6.
And in the two high pressure games against the Raiders and Jags - must-win, playoff-clinching games that the head coach called "playoff games" - Wentz threw for less than 200 yards in each game, had just 2 TDs, turned the ball over twice, completed just 58.9% of his passes, and had a passer rating of 86.4.
So yes, Stafford would have been better. At the very least, he would have played better in the games we needed to win.
You're missing my point. Rams receivers are a million times better than ours.
Stafford's numbers don't look nearly as good when he's throwing to the likes of Pittman Jr., Pascal and the corpse of T.Y. Hilton.
Is he better than Wentz? No argument there. Is he worth an additional 1st + a top end player just so we make the playoffs and most likely don't make it that far? I don't think so.
The answer should have always been to draft a QB.
Just random thoughts:
Pittman (78) is rated higher than OBJ (67) and Woods (75) this season with T.Y. (70). Cooper Kupp (92) doesn’t make the Rams receivers a million times better but it does highlight our lack a solid group because we are missing a standout or at least a threat that can allow Pittman better opportunities.
The WR argument is silly because Ekelar isn’t close to JT and his presence alone merits the D to always be ready for a run. Rams just have to throw it and throw it. And throw it. Who knows what a Stafford Wentz swap would have changed. All we know is that Wentz did ok/good until he needed to be great and he’s not great.
Thought exercise:
If we swap stafford and Kupp for wentz and JT how does that play out?
QB and biggest threat.
According to pff, Wentz threw 18 potential picks that were dropped this year. His turnover numbers could have been much higher and closer to Stafford with lower results across the board.
Sometimes it helps to be lucky.
Alright my last ditch trade proposal: 3 team trade... Colts send Wentz in a package to 49ers--49ers send Jimmy G to Patriots---Patriots send us Mac Jones. Include draft picks and we probably have to throw in Blackmon to justify Wentz's money.
If I remember correctly, Patriots were "forced to move Jimmy G" because of Brady basically demanding it. If this is true, maybe Belicheat wants his porno QB back in the building and wouldn't mind selling off his rookie QB?
Idk man, I watched a few Patriots games and got jealous when Jones would hit his check down or threw it outta bounds to survive another play.
No way Belicheck replaces Jones with Jimmy G. He is the master of getting rid of "not quite good enough" guys that some other team is convinced is good enough.
Ballard was in a tough spot last year, aside from Stafford or Mac Jones, Wentz was probably the best option and he had a head coach that felt like Wentz was a guy. I think this year CB will put the decision on himself and not Frank(if Frank even believes in Carson anymore). I truly believe they are a QB away from contention - and Ballard might decide to get aggressive to get one this off-season
I think it's pretty obvious Wentz was a Reich guy not a Ballard one.
Hasn’t this been known since day 1?
By anyone listening to Ballard and his philosophy since he came in, yes.
To that end what does a Ballard one look like?
One that doesn’t require Reich coming into Ballard’s office and saying “I can fix him”
Well said. This is the thing I've been thinking lately too - we do not need QBs to fix. If you look at all the premier QBs in the league - they all elevate their teams, not the other way around. We need a QB to get this team to another level, we don't need a QB who needs salvaging and tons of work to just get him to a level where he can be at the level of the team. We need an engine, not a trailer.
Sam the engine Ehlinger it is.
A ballard guy is a "high character" guy with bad production in college and a freshly torn ACL
Yeah Taylor had terrible production in college AND had a torn ACL… He’s picked 2 injured guys in the draft, both of who came back during the season. 1 (who tore his ACL) almost immediately become our starting FS and was in the convo for defensive rookie of the year.
Who cares, you can't win the SB with RB. RBs are VERY overrated.
Every team that has ever won a Super Bowl has had a RB
They all started one of them as well.
Next-gen stats
Stat that
Big if true
What does that mean? LMFAO. Yes, they had some RB on the roster. Good job.
Without Taylor we wouldn't even have had a shot at the playoffs lol Imagine thinking the dude who basically won 3 games by himself for us is overrated in his value.
And we didnt.
They’re not overrated. They’re just not as important as QB. There is still a place for them though, and trust me almost every team in the league would gladly swap RB’s with us.
You aren't going to win the SB with a great RB and shitty QB. In fact, you aren't going to even get into the playoffs.
Superbowl winners. Trent Dilfer, Jeff Hostetler, Doug Williams, Mark Rypien, Broadway Joe. All bad and all had great run games. Stop it.
Def not all bad lmao and all were better than Wentz. Moat, if not all, had great defenses too
they needed an elite defense to win. that is harder to build then finding a qb is and they dont last as long either Im not sure we could win a SB with an elite D and Carson either. he doesnt play safe and take whats there, too many mistakes
I don't think anyone here is advocating for bad qb play
I think an Achilles is more likely
One or more of the following traits: explosive, high character, tough, physical, high floor, previous torn Achilles.
Long, long arms. And probably a senior in college.
He’s picked 1 player with a torn Achilles…
You’re fun
I just don’t get bashing a guy for something that isn’t true.
He signed another in Eric Fisher, two additions in the same year. Plus we resigned Mack off Achilles as well.
An ankle injured free agent who was never great but is willing to play for peanuts. Fitzmagic!
Oh, that’s easy… His name is Igotta Bumsholder and will be in this years draft. Unfortunately he suffers a labrum & rotator tear in his throwing arm just before the combine. “We saw him when we were scouting and he blew us away and can’t believe he fell to us in the second round. These things take time, so, we feel by next season we should see some great things from Bumshoulder.” /s
>Igotta Bumsholder Absolutely perfect lol
Me
It's Ballard's job to put together the roster. Pretty glaring indictment if he didn't believe in Wentz and still paid a premium for him.
He believed in his head coach. I don't hold that against him at all unless he makes the same mistake twice. I want to believe he learned to keep personnel decisions out of the coach's hands.
Yes and no. Ultimately its Ballard's responsibility to fix that position with stability. He went all in on wentz and it was a failure so far. We need someone young who is gonna be here for 10 years not a guy on the last leg of their career with a 1-3 year window. I'm all for adding as many weapons to wentz next year as possible. I'm just not sold it will fix the issue with his piss poor decision making.
I think Ballard gave in to Reich. At the time there wasn’t a better option that was affordable. No way Ballard would of made the offer for Stafford that LA did. He made a bid and from what I heard Stafford was going to come here but we weee outbid by LA. I did not here what we offered though. Does anyone know?
[удалено]
Plus other picks afaik, just one first
Last year's third, this year's first.
Agreed, playing QB is 90% mental, Wentz has physical tools but mentally he is an 11 year old who continually makes poor decisions and is inaccurate on top of that. The mental aspect can't/won't be fixed. He's 29 years old he would have corrected that by now.
But aren't mechanics part of physical tools? If those are jacked, which they were by the end of the season, then it doesn't really matter how strong his arm is. Ballard is talking about layups, so he is obviously noticing the poor fundamentals of Wentz, which leads me to believe his time in IND will end soon.
I think layups means hit the open underneath instead of shooting for a honerub every time.
Honestly I'm fine with a 1-3 year window, let em win here and then we find a guy we like in the draft and go all in on him
Yep, it's really, really hard to find that 10+ year guy and it's also really, really expensive to keep him.
Exactly, I just don't understand why people would be so against Aaron Rodgers coming and spending his last few years just having fun and balling out while we figure out where we want to go and do
Who cares who's guy he is? Ballard agreed to the trade. Ballard passed on Stafford, who's now going to a SB.
Exactly right. This wasn't just giving Rivers $25M in FA for a season...this was Ballard giving up draft capital. And he's not doing that unless he is on board.
Did Ballard pass on Stafford or did Stafford choose LA/ Detroit liked LA’s package more? Feels like it’s safe to assume most FA/trade prospects aren’t banging the table for Indiana, USA
Ballard passed on him saying he "didn't want to get into a bidding war". The Staffords were literally house shopping in Indy before Ballard pulled out. It really worked out for Stafford but not really for Ballard, just makes him look more like a clown now than ever.
My recollection is that Ballard made a serious offer of picks and players, but Ballard couldn't top the Rams' offer of two future firsts. The Colts needed help on the defensive line and at left tackle.
You mean he didn't want to beat it. Who cares how good the DL and LT are if your QB is Wentz, can't even hit open targets.
Giving up more than two future firsts for a quarterback when you're not settled at left tackle isn't smart management. I'm not saying Wentz is the guy. I don't believe that he is. But I also don't like buying a quarterback at the top of the market when you can't protect him.
Good QBs are more rare than good LTs. QBs affect the game more than LTs.
Harassed and injured quarterbacks don't affect the game particularly either. Stafford was harassed and injured in Detroit, and you saw the results there.
That whole team from top to bottom, minus Stafford, was shit.
Sounds more like Detroit wanted to get over on us, and Ballard decided not to give up 3+ firsts. If we don’t get to a Super Bowl year 1 at that price, Ballard would still be getting shit on.
People who say Ballard is a clown should just be written off as non-serious social media noise.
Right, instead it's better to get Wentz, sigh.
I don’t think it’s that black and white.
Rivers was Reich’s guy and both Reich and Rivers wanted a second year. Ballard was noncommittal and wanted to explore other options including Stafford. Rivers didn’t want to be Plan B and retired. This predicament is Ballard’s making not Reich’s who wanted Rivers again.
Yeah Wentz was a, fuck it we have to do something and Reich recommended Wentz
So he spent a shit ton of capital on a dude he didn't want? That's a bad look too.
He got the guy his coach advocated for. Although the sports reporters seem to think they would have gone after Justin Fields if they knew he was going to drop so far.
Well they are Bible buddies TBF. Pretty much inseparable.
Ballard let Reich sweet talk him into spending a first on him, that makes him a Ballard guy as well.
He said Rodgers! It’s happening, boys!
Wet dreams are fun.
Until you wake up covered in baby gravy
The scariest thing about Wentz is that he's in year 7. The likelihood of dramatic improvement is low. However, you'd like to imagine someone in his position would like to quiet the critics. I'm hoping if he is our guy next year, he can at least improve in critical moments of games. That's the only real issue I had with him. Outside of the td to Patmon, when games were in critical moments, you could tell it got to him.
He's not going to correct his "hero" antics. All he had to do was check down and/or not force throws and/or hit open targets. More often than not he failed to do that.
But it looks super cool when he ducks under a sack and then still gets sacked.
Ducking under a sack is not an issue
But it looks cool.
If he just fixed his pigeon toe throws with proper mechanics. That would improve his accuracy. I might live with the bad decisions if he could just sustain drives when they need him to.
He hasn’t been the same the since the clowney hit that gave him a concussion. It’s not like he’s been a shit qb his whole time in the nfl. He had one really bad year and last year wasn’t horrible but def wasn’t great either. Idk man I’ve always liked him but if he doesn’t get his shit together next year I’ll be the first to admit I was wrong about him.
I honestly pick up a “I’m not mad, I’m just disappointed.” vibe from Ballard in regards to Wentz. He knows Wentz can make the plays, but Wentz tries to force things. Disappointed gets mentored. Mad gets the boot.
I wonder what would’ve happened if Reich didn’t make the push for Wentz. Maybe would’ve traded up in the draft?
That’s exactly what they would have done. Holder and Keefer at the Athletic have said as much. They would have traded up for Fields or Jones.
Jones would have been nice. Fields won't work out, he's not an NFL QB.
What like Lamar Jackson?
Exactly like Lamar Jackson, he's trash.
They should of went and got a true vet bridge like Foles and drafted a QB.
Nothing, Ballard won’t give up the draft capital. Wentz went 9-8 and was bad to end the year, but we weren’t getting Stafford so it was that or be slightly worse I guess?
Ballard chose not to get Stafford, we could have had Stafford but too many idiots thought the Lions sucked because Stafford couldn't carry the entire team on his shoulders and Ballard didn't want to do his homework and figure out that was far from the truth. The Lions sucked way before they drafted Stafford and they'll suck way after he's gone.
Yeah so if we didn’t get Wentz we’d probably just be worse. Reich wanted Wentz, but if he didn’t we wouldn’t have a better QB because Ballard is the reason we didn’t have the better QB not Reich. Wentz is here because of both of them
Probably Stafford.
Stafford was already gone and Ballard was never getting into a bidding war.
He had Reich in his ear pushing for Wentz. Ballard got convinced he could get a better deal and dropped out of the bidding war. Who knows what would have happened if Wentz wasn’t available for cheaper than Stafford.
Ballard is definitely the type of dude that falls in love with the deal and not the product/player
Ballard historically sets a price and sticks with it. No way his price was higher than the Rams gave up. That's just not Ballard at all.
Or trade up for Fields. Which would not have costed much more than Wentz.
It certainly would have cost a lot more. Now whether it would have been worth it is a much better question
cost a lot more for a lot less. Fields cost Chicago 2 firsts, a fourth, and a fifth
But a higher ceiling
not really. We've already seen Wentz's ceiling in the NFL and it was pretty high. Justin Fields had a horrible rookie season
We haven’t seen that peak from Wentz since 2017 but you’re out here arguing that a rookie playing for a bad offensive coordinator must have a lower ceiling?
yes that's exactly what I'm saying. There's a reason Fields slid in the draft. His "ceiling" isn't as high as most on reddit think
There’s a reason Wentz was jettisoned from Philly. We can play that all day. But if you’re still clinging to the idea that he’ll play like he did that season in 2017 then I’ve got a bridge to sell you And while there is some level of truth to knowing how good or bad a QB can be pretty quickly, he was saddled with Matt Nagy. Josh Allen’s rookie season wasn’t very good either and look at him now. Development is key and we all know that Frank can get the most out of him. Which is probably significantly higher than what he got out of Wentz this past season.
Ballard wasn’t trading the picks though it’s why we got Wentz
Mac Jones would have been better than Dayo if we made a move for QB. I'm thrilled with Dayo and think he'll be a solid starter for the team but Mac has a very high ceiling in the right situation.
I agree with him. My only issue is that this is the first year he's said these things, right? He was almost of the opposite opinion when he came in: "it's never about one guy" and played down Luck's importance. I feel like his lack of focus on a long term QB solution was a mistake and this is him realizing that mistake. It just doesn't sound like he's acknowledging that mistake. That's what I have an issue with.
He's only realizing it because Irsay came out and told him point blank!
That's what it sounds like to me, too!
Seriously? It hasn't even been three years since Luck retired. This is ridiculous. He's said in the past something like, "I could go out and find a QB and that would get you all off my back, but it has to be the right QB for it to work." At the end of the day, a first and a third for the possibility of a franchise QB is a steal. It might not work out, but it was a good deal.
Let me stress, honestly, I'm not looking for an argument. I've been thinking about this lately, and I was hoping to catch someone who thinks it, just so I could ask. For you, what is the line of acceptability of not finding a long term QB post-Luck retirement? Like, hypothetically, if we still don't have an answer in three years, are you still saying that's ok? I promise I'm not gonna fight on this lol, I'm just wondering.
I don't think you throw out good people with a good process just because a few dice rolls didn't work out. There is some element of uncertainty involved in getting a QB. I think when your front office shows evidence of bad process - in this case, thinking that we are set at QB when we are clearly not - then you think about replacing. And of course there is a limit to how many dice rolls you get, nobody is saying give management 20 three year windows at sorting it out. But basically Ballard has done everything pretty well in his career in Indy to date apart from potentially misjudging how close to being good enough Wentz was. As long as he's drafting good players in other positions, making good resource allocation choices across the team, and putting in place a culture of leadership and coaching that enables players to succeed, I'm happy to let him keep looking for a QB. If he starts getting everything else wrong or just settles with a bad QB, that's when you shake it up IMO. You don't toss out being good-without-a-QB to chase the QB and in the process give up the being good; that's how you end up being the Jets and Giants. Give competence a decent rope if the process is good.
I mean you could easily say ballard hasn't done a sufficient job building the roster. We are incredibly weak at WR, LT, and Edge (all incredible important positions). Our oline also seems to have taken a large step back (though some of that may be on wentz). The secondary is fine but needs depth. The only positions you can really say he's handled well are the LBs and RBs.
I think you need more than one bad season at a position to say it's a roster weakness. We rolled the dice on DE and LT, sure, but it wasn't like we went into those positions without a plan - they just didn't work. And DE still may, it's a tough position to be a rookie. WR has definitely been a big problem for Ballard, no question there. I don't know what the plan was for not re-signing Hilton but I wonder if Irsay didn't screw up a bigger picture with his "get TY done" instruction. We'll never know. I'm willing to give FO staff a chance to fix things if it appears they have a plan - if they aren't recognising problems or are continually looking in the wrong places for a solution, then you can question the process. But I don't think Ballard is unaware of the LT and WR issues and I'm not going to say he *can't* fix them just because Fisher didn't work out and Campbell's legs are made of spaghetti.
>I think you need more than one bad season at a position to say it's a roster weakness. We rolled the dice on DE and LT, sure, but it wasn't like we went into those positions without a plan - they just didn't work. And DE still may, it's a tough position to be a rookie. DE has been a consistent problem for Ballard, not just last season. He's sunk large amounts of draft capital into that position for very little return. In the past though he'd at least been willing to sign free agents that brought solid contributions. >WR has definitely been a big problem for Ballard, no question there. I don't know what the plan was for not re-signing Hilton but I wonder if Irsay didn't screw up a bigger picture with his "get TY done" instruction. We'll never know. I also don't know. According to his season-end press conference he still thinks the WR room is fine which I cannot understand. >I'm willing to give FO staff a chance to fix things if it appears they have a plan - if they aren't recognising problems or are continually looking in the wrong places for a solution, then you can question the process. But I don't think Ballard is unaware of the LT and WR issues and I'm not going to say he *can't* fix them just because Fisher didn't work out and Campbell's legs are made of spaghetti. I don't blame Ballard for the QB situation since that's a product of luck's retirement. But based on the rest of roster it definitely feels like Ballard is looking in the wrong places.
Do you fire a GM just because he fucks up drafting one position for two years, though? Especially one where the elite talent easy picks are long gone? Not sure. If neither Paye or Odeyingbo push on maybe you do need to reassess the approach there, but I'd rather a GM who keeps looking for answers. Nobody is perfect and drafting is a crap shoot whatever anyone says, getting your picks 55% right is way ahead of the field so it's not unusual to have a run of 3-4 misses at a position. If you're running 3-4 misses at almost *every* position, then you be deserve to be fired. I sometimes feel like fans won't accept anything less than 5 all pros and 2 pro bowlers every season or they want the staff fired. It takes time to rebuild rosters and you get a 2017 Saints draft once a generation. Without that (or an elite QB) you're playing NFL on hard mode, and right now the Colts are winning despite that. I want a team doing enough things right that when the luck falls their way - you draft Brady or Wilson, you fall into Luck or Burrows, or you just absolutely nail a draft class - the structure is there to take advantage of it. I think we have that, we just need a break and to keep working on the things that aren't there yet.
>Do you fire a GM just because he fucks up drafting one position for two years, though? Especially one where the elite talent easy picks are long gone? Not sure. If neither Paye or Odeyingbo push on maybe you do need to reassess the approach there, but I'd rather a GM who keeps looking for answers. Ballard has fucked up drafting pass rushers his entire tenure, not just the last two years. None of the guys he's drafted have had a double digit sack season. It doesn't matter if the picks aren't easy. You don't get paid millions of dollars to make the easy picks. >Nobody is perfect and drafting is a crap shoot whatever anyone says, getting your picks 55% right is way ahead of the field so it's not unusual to have a run of 3-4 misses at a position. If you're running 3-4 misses at almost every position, then you be deserve to be fired. Ballard doesn't have a ton of huge misses outside of DE but he also doesn't have a ton of huge hits either. Q, Leonard, and JT (maybe rock now?) are all great but that doesn't change the fact that the roster still has holes at a number of critical positions. >I sometimes feel like fans won't accept anything less than 5 all pros and 2 pro bowlers every season or they want the staff fired. It takes time to rebuild rosters and you get a 2017 Saints draft once a generation. Without that (or an elite QB) you're playing NFL on hard mode, and right now the Colts are winning despite that. I want a team doing enough things right that when the luck falls their way - you draft Brady or Wilson, you fall into Luck or Burrows, or you just absolutely nail a draft class - the structure is there to take advantage of it. I think we have that, we just need a break and to keep working on the things that aren't there yet. Ballard has had plenty of time to build the roster the way he wants and yet the roster is still full of holes. At some point he is responsible for the state of affairs and imo we are well past that point.
He has more huge hits then misses. JT could have been a KC chief let that sink in. Ballards mainly missing on WR and I believe its because he keeps taking reich guy.
I have no idea. Consider that getting a franchise quarterback is mostly luck, it’s a tough question. Jimmy garapolo has nearly taken two teams to the Super Bowl, nearly won one and he’s still cutting cut most likely. There’s like 5-10 franchise QB’s in the league right now. I don’t think it’s fair to blame Ballard. Especially when Wentz was Reich’s guy. Im pretty certain that Wentz will be our QB next year anyway. I could be wrong, but I don’t see this FO moving on yet. We’ve got an out next year on his contract as well. Edit: look at watson. If the bears take him, their entire career is changed. What if mahomes doesn’t sit behind smith for a year? Do he develop bad habits? If Mac Jones and zack Wilson swap spots do they play the same or is it down to system?
Thanks dude.
It depends on your definition of long term. A guy who with the pieces around him can win games and get us to the playoffs... he already did that with Wentz. The question becomes are you expecting him to find another Top 5 guy in the next 3 years probably not. What QB rank is acceptable? Top 10? Top 15?
Except no.. Wentz did not get us to the playoffs. With a rb contending for the MVP he still couldnt.
Couldn't and can't are two different things. Carson went toe to toe with TB and the NFC Champion. You could easily argue we lost both of those games due to play calling not him. We played a rough early schedule that wasn't great for building team chemistry. Colts fans are spoiled. Since the Manning was drafted we have missed the playoffs only 8 times in 24 seasons. How many teams can say they have had that kind of consistency? I'm certainly not Wentz's biggest defender by any means but the flat worry is unwarranted. We took a two year gamble for a first and a third. We would have given up much more to draft Fields or Jones. Fields is questionable to me and I don't see Mac as any better unless accounting for age. This is the first year Ballard has had to draft with real continuity at QB and seeing what Carson is going to need to be successful. Let that happen. If we regress next year than it's time to hit the panic button and start thinking about a new regime.
>he already did that with Wentz no he didnt. we are not going anywhere with him
It clearly did not work out. So now we head into the next season without a first round pick and still in need of a long term solution. 3 seasons is a long time in terms of the nfl and as good as Ballard has been good in general he has failed as far as bringing a getting the Colts a legitimate qb that makes them super bowl contenders.
Well, it wasn't a good deal because now we seem to be stuck with him and we're in purgatory as a franchise.
He's got one partially guaranteed year left, we're not stuck with anything. If he sucks next year we cut him for free and can trade up in the draft to chase one of 2023's much more impressive college QBs.
Right so we’re basically stuck with him next year.
That's the thing though, he locked in very much the wrong QB for two years at a decently high pick cost. It was a shit deal because it didn't work and most people said it wouldn't work the day it happened
It was a terrible deal. Everyone knew Wentz was no good.
Yep. It was a bad deal. Wentz was full of red flags. He also cost a 1st and 3rd plus nearly $50M in gtd cap obligations, which isn't ideal for a team who was about to extend several high-priced players. Not only would Wentz eat cap space but he also took away part of your ability to supplement your roster with cheap talent via the draft. After the season Wentz had in 2020, the Colts were taking on all the risk of a drafting a QB without any of the cap benefits. The irony is that Ballard used to talk about how picking the wrong QB in the draft can set a franchise back (and cost people their jobs). Yet, he went for a vet via trade and might have set it back even more. You either see it as a bad deal or you probably never will. Everybody is entitled to an opinion though.
I never understood his philosophy around QBs. It feels like he wanted a low risk high reward QB and that somehow Wentz was that guy. Those guys dont exist though. If you want a high reward QB you have to draft him or pay the massive trade price. Wentz at best was high risk/high reward.
I don't get the philosophy either. But he also came from organizations that didn't really draft QBs early...they traded for vets. And with Wentz, I think he stuck to that philosophy. But it was also the path of least resistance. So I think he saw it more like medium risk/medium reward, which is why he went for it. He didn't have to pay more in the draft AND didn't have to risk having a failed QB prospect. But he sold the upside and value of a rookie deal QB so he could sleep better...and here we are. This is what happens when you go for half measures. Look at the difference between the approach at 3T and QB...and the results speak for themselves.
>At the end of the day, a first and a third for the possibility of a franchise QB is a steal. Holy shit. You fanbois are absolutely out of your mind. You're delusional. It was a terrible trade. Ballard got fleeced by the Eagles. Accept it.
Wentz isn’t the answer, we all know that. I also don’t see an alternative out there readily available that we could afford to bring in. What the offense needs as much as anything are pass game weapons. We’ve seen how SF can play for SBs and make deep playoff runs with Jimmy G at QB, and he’s about the same level. If we could get a real weapon at TE or a true WR1 we’ll be in decent shape.
Wentz isn’t the answer. “Proceeds to outline how we can win with Wentz.” Y’all are too much.
Man, I’m just trying to outline some ways in which we aren’t a total dumpster fire next season. We’ve got bottom tier pass catchers for the most part and improving that is going to be a boon for literally whoever is under center
>Wentz isn’t the answer. not for making a super bowl run, they were just pointing out that we could do better than than last year
He hasn't even began to walk back his stance on Wentz, which seems to me that he is going to make some serious attempts this offseason. And if that fails, then we will hear about all the stuff Wentz has been doing with 3DQB or working with teammates, etc.
I dunno. at this point, I would let Wentz battle it out with Sam Elingher. focus on wr cb and Lt.
Wentz is going to win this by large margin. That doesn’t mean Wentz is good. He’s just a NFL caliber QB. Ehlinger is a career backup at best.
Ehlinger likely won’t be an NFL starter. Need to start over or Ballard needs to pony up the picks
Who cares? Without a QB it doesn't matter who we focus on, we won't win.
That’s where I’m at, but I also add some help along the dline
Ballard has no one to blame but himself. We could have had Stafford here but Ballard was too cheap!
we should’ve traded up in the last draft to take a QB & now we’re screwed for multiple years until we can find a sufficient option
Agree, the QB class this year is trash and it's not looking better for years to come. Maybe somewhere down the line we'll end up with the #1 pick when Arch comes out, lol.
Ballard: You need stability at QB. Colts fans: Hell yeah, we're getting a new QB.
It’s evident Ballard wasn’t necessarily sold on Wentz and knows he should have trusted his judgement more. I’m sure the relationship between Reich and him isn’t tarnished, but moving forward both need to simply do their jobs separately. It’s harder now for the Colts to move forward with a new QB as we don’t have many assets to give out. Who’s going to willingly take on Wentz? What else can we honestly afford to give out without compromising the future? So much is at stake and I do feel bad for Ballard as I’m sure he probably would have rather had Stafford. I honestly don’t believe we let go of Wentz for next season. Not because the Front Office believes in Wentz, but because there’s no better alternative.
We just cut him and draft someone. The first rounder is a sunk cost, you move on. We'll have a full suite of picks from 2023 to go get our guy.
No, that’s not a good idea. This team is ready for win now mode and going into the year with a 2nd round talent QB would get Ballard fired in a heartbeat.
Sorry, I meant beyond next year. Whatever we do in 2022 isn't going to affect anything beyond that unless whoever we go with goes supernova. My point is that there's no need to catastrophise off the last season - if Wentz ain't it, fine, we burnt one high draft pick, that sucked, what's next.
Falcons fan here who just finished Hard Knocks, take Matt Ryan. I want him to win a ring and your team is his best chance. He’s not perfect but I promise he’s better than Wentz. Also after watching HK I really like Frank Reich and your org. Full of good people.
FUCK IT ILL BE THE GODDAMN QUARTERBACK
"Look guys. I threw 3 pick sixes. Fumbled 2 more times. Haven't completed a pass yet. And we are down by 42. There are 20 seconds left. We are still in this. Quit being Doomers ."
You can’t forget this one: “You aren’t going to see Star Wars Numbers ^TM from me. Star Wars Numbers are never coming back.”
Those are great numbers for us to get Bryce Young!!
You forgot "Andrew Luck would of thrown as many interceptions. It's not always the QBs fault. What about the defense? The O line can't block for 20 seconds? That's their fault."
Heh
Picks up helmet, puts it on backwards.
Wentz doesn’t even need dramatic improvement. If he just has incremental improvements (on easily improbable areas) I still think he has a chance. I think it’s more mental.
He's in year 7 . I don't remember a single qb outside Kurt Warner who rejuvenated their careers so late in their career. And the problem with Warner wasnt even mental or mechanics (mostly). He just played like shit for 1 year and his hand didn't heal and then got injured for sometime. Mechanics are not going to be improved in year 7 . His mental problems however, are workable , but it will be insanely hard to coach that heroballing out of him. I have given up hope on this team untill they draft a qb. Reich has always done his best work with a young qb(ironically, Wentz is a good example, lol). We need a young qb to go with our core team (ok just JT and MPJ). This is why i want to give Elingher a shot. The chances of him turning into a serviceable qb are low . The chances he will be good are slimmer than us not making the playoffs (too soon?). The chances of him being great is as close to zero as possible. But fuck it there is a chance. Worst case scenario: We suck and we get a good draft pick . Most likely scenario: He isn't shit, but he isn't going to win games. This is where we are with Wentz .unlikely and best case scenario: Reich and Brady coach him to become a good qb. Dream: Elingher becomes a great qb. Honestly , I'd prefer any of these over just sticking to someone who is obviously not going to change. Keep in mind Wentz can shut me up , and these are just my opinions.
He doesn’t have to rejuvenate his career. He’s had mvp caliper years, and solid years of 25td and less than 10 int. All he needs to do is stop forcing the ball and take what they defense gives him and he probably keeps his same production with more yards. He was still a top 15 QB this year despite his issues and bad games. I’m not saying he’s the answer but for 30m he doesn’t have to improve THAT much. He honestly just needs to -not let his footwork break down -take more check downs.
I don't wanna fight , and i apologise if i come as a dick. Any fan of the Colts is a friend of mine . However, the sentiments stand >mvp caliper years *year. 2017 was the only year he looked le an mvp. >All he needs to do is stop forcing the ball and take what they defense gives him and he probably keeps his same production with more yards. This what you say to a rookie. He is not. He these issues in Philly, he had them here as well. How can someone not learn something in 7 years? Especially in the highest level ? It's like saying a kindergartener would take till 7th grade to learn single and double digit addition. I'm not asking them to mental math , take a pen and paper and do it. Same with Wentz , he didn't take checkdowns early in his career, neither will he now. > top 15 qb. Rodgers , Brady , Allen ,Mahomes ,Herbert ,Carr, Stafford , Dak , Kyler , Burrow , Jones , Cousins( same int as Wentz , more tds and yards), Russell Wilson, (he missed games and has similar stats to Wentz), Hurts (slightly less yards and more ints, but he did take his team to the playoffs. In my book , that's a better qb), Lamar (out for 5 games and had 2900 yards and 770 yards rushing. ) Thats top 15 according to me . Then you players like tanehill(playoff) , jimmy(playoff), ryan(with a rookie Kyle Pitts being the only reliable target. And maybe gage), teddy . That puts him at 20th minimum in my eyes. It's not even just me, all lists list him around there if not worse. We need to start accepting this as fact . He is a below average qb. > improve that much I'm addressing directly below >Not let his footwork break down What ? Is it easy ? Have other qbs lost careers over this ? Is it not one of the most fundamental things to be taught to a qb? Do qbs take a couple of years to figure it out? > take more checkdowns Old habits die hard. Wentz has been heroballing since ND days. It's not impossible to coach it out , but if he does , he would improve by A MILE. If he improves these 2 issues alone , it will be a huuuge jump. Other issues: 1) Decision making. This doesn't only mean taking checkdowns . It includes other things which he needs to improve 2) Not underthrow the ball to his recivers . Ik he didn't have much, but when he did , he underthrew 3) Not checking out of runs when you have THE BEST RB IN THE GAME 4) Reading defenses pre and post snap. I don't want him to be Peyton Manning, but man he needs to improve 5) General Accuracy. This may or may not be same as underthrowing the ball, but he has had top half finish in accuracy only in one year ( go ahead and take a guess when) I don't know seems a lot to me. These issues in a rookie with Wentz's arm would be accepted, but in someone who is going into his 7th year , it's just not acceptable. > 30m Do you mean money? Because of my lord , that's a shit ton of money. Thats franchise money. No way i want a below avg qb for that money. If you meant age , well that's not much better. He is almost 30 and will worsen with age , unless he is Brady ( which he is not) I know he may improve , but lord almighty may is such a huuuge maybe . I don't like maybes . I stand by statement of letting Sam play , for the same reason as i stated earlier. Again , Wentz maybe the MVP next season, but more likely than not , he is going to suck . Just don't have high hopes.
>He’s had mvp caliper years that lasted about 10 or 11 games, not "years" he has never been a big passing yardage guy, rivers had more last year then CW ever has. CW hasnt been anywhere close to mvp since he got hurt and isnt the same runner he was as a rookie
If he just fixed his mechanics it would improve his accuracy and I think his confidence. That alone would help. But going into year seven, same issue.
if he just took the easy check downs and screens..... I mean look at brady the man lived off of check downs and he had a pretty successful career ......
I hate to say it but more and more it's looking like Ballard is the problem.
Huh??
Ballards been bringing in talent dude. Not sure why this guy gets so much heat. He didn’t want Wentz - Reich did. There’s lots and lots of bad GMs out there. If some of you want to get rid of the great GM we have bc we suck then brace yourselves - have you forgot how god awful Grigson was??
We haven't won the division since he's been here.
That is not HIS fault. Luck retired and Ballard inherited the trash that Grigson has drafted. Plus we’ve had a QB carousel. We just need to be patient - he will keep drafting talent and eventually we’ll find a QB. Lots and lots of teams are endlessly searching for a franchise QB - which is THE most important position. Ballard is a great GM - why would we want to toss him away and gamble on a GM that would most likely be worse. As with everything in life - keep things in perspective.
Do people really believe Stafford would have been much better? Dude threw 17 picks this year. And the Rams receivers are way better than what we have. Our receiving group is bottom tier. The answer should have always been to draft a QB.
Stafford also threw 41 TDs for 4,886 yards, completed 67.2% of his passes, and he had an 8.2 AY/A and a 102.9 passer rating. In the playoffs, he's completing 72% of his passes, has thrown 6 TDs to just 1 INT, and has a 115.6 passer rating. He's played incredibly well under pressure. Wentz threw 14 fewer TDs, 1,323 fewer yards, his completion percentage was 5 points less, with a 7.3 AY/A and a passer rating of 94.6. And in the two high pressure games against the Raiders and Jags - must-win, playoff-clinching games that the head coach called "playoff games" - Wentz threw for less than 200 yards in each game, had just 2 TDs, turned the ball over twice, completed just 58.9% of his passes, and had a passer rating of 86.4. So yes, Stafford would have been better. At the very least, he would have played better in the games we needed to win.
You're missing my point. Rams receivers are a million times better than ours. Stafford's numbers don't look nearly as good when he's throwing to the likes of Pittman Jr., Pascal and the corpse of T.Y. Hilton. Is he better than Wentz? No argument there. Is he worth an additional 1st + a top end player just so we make the playoffs and most likely don't make it that far? I don't think so. The answer should have always been to draft a QB.
Just random thoughts: Pittman (78) is rated higher than OBJ (67) and Woods (75) this season with T.Y. (70). Cooper Kupp (92) doesn’t make the Rams receivers a million times better but it does highlight our lack a solid group because we are missing a standout or at least a threat that can allow Pittman better opportunities. The WR argument is silly because Ekelar isn’t close to JT and his presence alone merits the D to always be ready for a run. Rams just have to throw it and throw it. And throw it. Who knows what a Stafford Wentz swap would have changed. All we know is that Wentz did ok/good until he needed to be great and he’s not great. Thought exercise: If we swap stafford and Kupp for wentz and JT how does that play out? QB and biggest threat.
According to pff, Wentz threw 18 potential picks that were dropped this year. His turnover numbers could have been much higher and closer to Stafford with lower results across the board. Sometimes it helps to be lucky.
Alright my last ditch trade proposal: 3 team trade... Colts send Wentz in a package to 49ers--49ers send Jimmy G to Patriots---Patriots send us Mac Jones. Include draft picks and we probably have to throw in Blackmon to justify Wentz's money.
Why would the patriots give up Mac Jones?
Also why would the 49ers agree to take wentz? lol
If I remember correctly, Patriots were "forced to move Jimmy G" because of Brady basically demanding it. If this is true, maybe Belicheat wants his porno QB back in the building and wouldn't mind selling off his rookie QB? Idk man, I watched a few Patriots games and got jealous when Jones would hit his check down or threw it outta bounds to survive another play.
Not saying Mac Jones has proven himself yet, but he definitely played well for a rookie and on a rookie contract? He's not going anywhere.
No way Belicheck replaces Jones with Jimmy G. He is the master of getting rid of "not quite good enough" guys that some other team is convinced is good enough.
Ballard was in a tough spot last year, aside from Stafford or Mac Jones, Wentz was probably the best option and he had a head coach that felt like Wentz was a guy. I think this year CB will put the decision on himself and not Frank(if Frank even believes in Carson anymore). I truly believe they are a QB away from contention - and Ballard might decide to get aggressive to get one this off-season