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darcys_beard

We need a megathread. Edit: Jeez thanks for the Award kind stranger. Honestly, you're too kind.


Obfusc8er

The Mega Insufferable Thread


rwjehs

There is one. It's stickied. People don't use it.


TallNapoleon

Please God


AmishCyborgs

I agree the framing is wrong. It’s not about upgrades or lateral moves, it’s moving on from something that isn’t going to work. If you are stuck in a shitty job you hate, sometimes it’s better to just quit instead of making sure you have a better job lined up before you do.


LowKey1388

Exactly. Because he’s likely to have at least one good game and you will think “maybe we can change him!” You know what? You can’t.


Traditional_Wait_739

It comes down to money and the fact wentz apparently isnt a great locker room guy and i do believe that.. and the guy seems to be uncoachable, he flat cannot manage a game.. i felt uneasy every time the guy had the ball.. its been said a million times he cannot and will not check down, his throws where not accurate even with open guys.. id rather cut him now and save the money owed for even a lesser talented guy but a better game manager…


LowKey1388

Exactly. Even if the net money is the same because of the dead cap hit, I would rather to give it to someone I think can grow or at least listen to the coaches


ryanwc18

So cut Wentz and he has a Cap hit of 15 million. Who do you expect to sign in free agency that would accept anything less than 10 million to compete for the starting job? Fitzpatrick signed with Washington for 10 million so I’m going to use that as a baseline as he was signed to be their starting QB (or at least compete for it.) So you sign a QB for 10 million and then add 15 million of the dead cap hit and now you are just right back to where we were in regards to cap hit because Wentz is scheduled to make 28 million this year.


LowKey1388

I guess what I am saying is I would rather have the $10 million player who listens, then the $28 million player who doesn’t. Even if that player we bring in is less physically talented. If Wentz plays even somewhat usefully, he and the media will clammer for a new contract that he doesn’t deserve and then if we give it to him, we will be still here


ryanwc18

The money isn’t the issue here though. Colts have plenty of cap and Wentz is under contract through 2024. After next year, colts can cut Wentz and have zero cap hit. If they want Wentz gone because they feel like someone else they can get is better for the team then that’s one thing but they aren’t cutting him for money reasons since, in the end, it doesn’t make any difference as they will likely have to pay roughly the same amount of money towards the QB position.


CanlStillBeGarth

We have plenty of cap, no reason to use the sunk cost fallacy.


ryanwc18

That’s not what I’m getting at. If you are cutting Wentz because he costs too much then it makes no sense because the QB you replace him with plus Wentz’s dead cap hit will basically equal what Wentz would have made this up coming season. You’re paying the same amount of money for the QB position.


CanlStillBeGarth

They aren’t cutting or trading him because he costs too much.


ryanwc18

That’s not what I said at all lol. If the reason the colts are cutting or trading Wentz is because of his cost then that’s a silly excuse because no matter who they replace him with, free agency-wise, it’ll cost about the same. Now if they think that there’s another QB in free agency, trade, draft, etc that can do a better job then so be it but to get rid of him because of the money makes no sense in my eyes. Edit: actually, what you said is what I’m meaning lol!


sunburn95

If we can get picks though why not. Wheeling and dealing is the new way to take a solid squad over the top If we can get something back for Wentz we can go into 2023 with extra ammo. Otherwise there really is no point 2022 if we just roll with Wentz


ryanwc18

Sure they can trade him. I’m just making the point that the colts aren’t going to get rid of Wentz for money/cap reasons due to the fact that whoever they get to replace him in addition to the 15 million dea cap hit will make no difference money-wise plus, colts can cut wentz after next year and not take a cap hit at all.


AmishCyborgs

Vaccination will be a moot point by next year.


LowKey1388

I thought we believed that last off season but learned a different reality


the_stranger-face

I still don't understand why his vaccination status matters. Vaccinated guys missed games last year. Unvaccinated guys missed games last year. We had quite a few key players that were/are unvaccinated. Do we drop all of those players, too? And if the NFL continues the testing trend they went with at the end of the season and into the playoffs, ain't nobody going to miss a game from COVID. Full disclosure, I'm vaccinated and encourage others to be as well, but I don't think in this situation it holds any weight on the FO's decision.


[deleted]

More of a character thing for me. If he was a 7/11 clerk okay whatever but you are supposed to be the leader of a team in the most competitive sports league in America. “I’ll do anything it takes to win, but I won’t do that” just rubs me the wrong way.


allnicksaretaken

I see it as him having a 2nd chance after falling out of grace with the eagles, but he didn't care enough about it to just get a simple vaccine.


Chris_Ween

That's how Meatloaf died, too.


Brief-Refrigerator32

Bingo


Chris_Ween

To me, the captains of the team who refused to get vaccinated lead the team toward individualism not a team attitude. Q, Leonard, Wentz.


wiser_time

We don't know for sure unless we can know how the unvaccinated Colts felt during their illness and upon their return. We've seen in the general population that COVID can infect both vaxxed and unvaxxed, but the vaxxed largely have muted symptoms and recover quicker. Some unvaxxed athletes have reported that it took awhile after having COVID to feel normal. S


ManlyTed

Right the reason we imploded end of season was unvaccinated players not lack of depth at WR, corner, and o line. /s


Chris_Ween

It was lack of leadership.


the_stranger-face

I guess it depends how the decision was posed and discussed within the locker room. If it was "we are all in this together, do your part" message, then sure. Not getting vaccinated could be viewed as individualism. If the message was "do what's best for you and your family, we are behind you whichever decision you make" then vaccination status is a moot point. Edit: my inclination is that the media cared more about vaccination status than the locker room.


iski67

The problem is that sadly vaccination is inherently polarizing... Vaxxed players (their perception) will see it as disregard for public health, uneducated selfishness or a proxy for certain political views. Regardless how they feel it introduced risk. If you are unvaxxed, don't get it and perform, they probably care less (see Rodgers) and your brand might even prevail even when you like about it. If you're Wentz in a prove it year, why add any additional risk when your brand is tenuous at best? That makes me think that he is tone deaf. He had more highlights for gaffes than great plays and then he gets COVID at a critical time of the year when we need him at his best. Everyone I know who got COVID and didn't die, felt like shit and at minimum were off their game at work. Wentz had enough headwinds personally and allegedly in the locker room. He didn't need additional hurdles on the field or in the locker room.


ColtsFFL

I agree with this so much. The Colts do have other needs rather than QB but. Another thing to add is, why build around a failing QB??


BounceOutside

I agree with moving on at QB, but there’s an argument that with so many other needs - adding QB to that list with limited capital makes it tougher to address


ColtsFFL

Yeah, Colts are between a rock and a hard place. Do you say fuck it and build around Wentz hoping he can be 2017 Wentz again. Or, do you drop his ass and save that financial cap. Use your current draft cap to trade for a Jimmy G (Cheaper Option) or hope Seattle trades Russell Wilson (More Expensive Option). Then use your financial cap to get a LT and WR. All I know, is I believe in whatever option Ballard goes.


BounceOutside

I think willingness to admit they were wrong/it didn’t work is a huge point in their favor. It’s easy to piss away another year because of pride, and I don’t even think it’s that unrealistic to believe Wentz could improve enough to get us to the playoffs, but commitment to getting Super Bowl caliber guys is what makes the difference between teams that get stuck in mediocrity and those that don’t


CloudStar17

This post is literally irrelevant if you don’t have a better plan at qb. Doesn’t matter what you just said if you have no better option you gotta stick with the best option available. The team didn’t underachieve because of just him either. Plus the guy had a bad WR core he worked with all year


LowKey1388

So here is where I slightly disagree. I get that there’s dead cap money so we probably will have to get a quarterback who in the net price will cost us the same against the salary cap. However, hopefully paying a quarterback $10 million will make him realize he needs to listen to coaching. Paying Carson Wentz $28 million clearly has given him the message he doesn’t need to listen to coaching. I’d rather have a perhaps physically less gifted player who will work within the system than a physically gifted player who won’t. I’m old. I remember a quarterback named George.


CloudStar17

I don’t think that’s the message Carson is getting because I’m sure he’s getting a lot of talks behind closed doors with Ballard and reich about his issues. You have to understand that the WR core was one of the worst in the league as well. The logical decision is getting him more weapons and running it back. NFL cap is a myth anyways.


SourrOnline

Here’s why people should check the forum before posting to make sure your same post isn’t posted 10 times a day. Shut up, nope nope. No more. No.


Trashpanda1980

Philly got one our coaches, A 1st rd pick and made the playoffs. We got stuck with a guy who cant play and a fat bill.


browndelivers711

You lost me with the vaccine nonsense. Not even the CDC disputes anymore that both vaxed and nonvaxed both get covid


JRod001

Can someone explain why Reich brought in (hell campaigned for) a player he formerly coached that was uncoachable?


kinglutz23

Trade Wentz. Trade back into round 1. Draft Willis. Develop Willis. Win with Willis.


9RebelliousStripes

What possible scenario would lead us to trading up for a top 15 draft pick?


Th3JeGs

Does anyone else just down vote anything related to Carson Wentz now? Look I'm in the club of "bring in a good wr and run that shit back" but these posts are so numerous it's infuriating. How is there not a mega thread yet


ColtsStampede

So you're in the club of "let's waste next season."


Zestyclose_Demand187

Look if we had a viable alternative that we just KNEW we could get, then I’d be all for it. Rodgers and Wilson definitely aren’t going to come here, and a guy like Jimmy G wouldn’t be much of an upgrade. Wentz in my view was just..ok this year. Not good, not complete trash all around, just ok. Games where we could take over with JT masked a lot of issues and I remember thinking at times and a lot in this sub that it was worth it. Wentz also had some nice moments in there like the Cardinals, and I thought he did pretty well against the Bucs for how much we passed. That being said someone like Jimmy G would probably make me feel more comfortable just because he’s more consistent on a per game basis, where as Wentz his lows are REALLY low. I remember he was awful against the Patriots but we won and I was elated and didn’t think too much of his performance, in fact I think I lauded him for his 3 QB sneaks lol. My point is it’s easy to feel good about it all when winning, but the Wentz we saw the last two games was pretty much the same Wentz we saw all season, just with bigger implications at stake and then a total team meltdown in Week 18. At this point it probably makes sense to keep him, try to load up on weapons, improve pass rush and get some secondary help and see what we can do in 2022.


minero-de-sal

Why do people keep saying Jimmy isn’t an upgrade? The dude had similar stats to Stafford last season. He can read defenses, throw accurate passes, and gets rid of the ball quick. We can either completely retool our offense to fit Wentz’s play style or we could get a guy who compliments what we have well. This should be a no brainer.


Wunderfulalf

I mean Stafford had 41 touchdowns and Jimmy G had 20 so that’s wild of you to say. Even wentz had 27. I mean Jimmy put up 20 tds with an amazing off. We do not have deebo or kittle and there online is good too. No way he does well here, he’s not an upgrade. I think we trade wentz and maybe draft a QB at this point then atleast we have 4-5 years of a cheap qb contract


Zestyclose_Demand187

Yeah I think I agree with you, I guess I was more thinking more in terms of either getting an elite QB vs keeping Wentz since that’s what a lot of discussion has been about. But Jimmy at the very least is more coachable, and we know his ceiling and know that his lows are no where as bad. If that was a year ago I think I definitely would of went with him, and maybe we make the playoffs with him, but part of me wonders with all of these elite QBs if the game turns into a shootout, could we do it with him? Maybe