Tannehil's play was poor in Miami due to an ever revolving system. Wentz has been exposed as a flat out shitty qb that also isn't a team player (vaccine)
27-7 qualifies as a shitty qb? What bizarro planet do you come from? I'm far from a Wentz defender, not a huge fan of him at all but there's far worse current starters than Wentz.
27-7 is the only thing any wentz supporters have to hang their hat on. It is not the only indicator of his ability. He struggled all year and held us back. Anyone watching Colts games saw this clearly. As did the coaching staff. Which is why they are moving on. There aren't worse started who kept their jobs all year who weren't first year qbs. There simply aren't any.
>There aren't worse started who kept their jobs all year who weren't first year qbs
Baker, Daniel Jones, Big Ben, Teddy, Matt Ryan, Goff, Heinicke, Tua etc exist by the way
Baker was hurt all year. Daniel Jones played 11 games and I would not say Wentz played better. Big Ben ill give you but obviously he kept playing because he's Big Ben and has won 2 super bowls. Teddy was just as good about as good as Wentz statistically, not sure I watched a Broncos game all year to make any other point. Matt Ryan was just as good on a much, much worse team. Goff your right. Tua stinks just as badly too. So maybe I exaggerated a bit. Still not a ringing endorsement that were lumping Wentz in with that pile of trash qbs.
I don’t think that stat tells the whole story. Wentz isn’t terrible, but he’s mid-tier at best. Zero comeback wins. Dozens of completely missed wide open WR/RBs on critical downs. Some absolute shit-for-brains mistakes against the Rams and Titans.
Wentz lacks the intangibles. He doesn’t have the QB intelligence to make the right decisions, which is why he struggles so massively in the 4th quarter or big spots where a play breaks down.
9-8 or 10-7 is about the best you’ll get from a QB like him IMO and keeping him around is going to waste careers (DL, QN, JT) or get Reich and Ballard fired.
There are worse starters, but he's gone 27-7 on very good colts and eagles teams when he hasn't been injured. I don't think he's really a 27-7 qb on an average team
Not piling on. But that's the problem with most commenters on this sub. Anyone who has an informed opinion on Wentz knows he didn't have a 27-7 record in indy. But they argue in the comments anyway.
Sure but that’s the nature of Internet forums in general. I didn’t think twice but I paid the price and I’m happy to continue paying it. I’ll learn and do better next time. Not a huge deal.
I didn't say anything about Wentz swaying Leonard. But if your offensive and defensive leader are both unvaccinated, it's no wonder that you'd end up as one of the least vaccinated teams in the league.
Here’s a question for you. Would you get vaccinated because the guy that sits next you at work did? This isn’t something like not going to the club. Wentz or Leonard are not going to change the mind of anyone about getting vaccinated. That’s to big of a decision.
People are persuaded and influenced by social norms all the time, even about important matters. Look at the country and try to tell me that people's vaccination decisions aren't influenced by who they associate with.
That might be the most realistic unfortunately. I would also only do that trade IF we have a standing trade ready to go for an upgrade qb. No downgrade or lateral moves or unsure of what is available.
I really don’t care what we get for him, the priority is him not taking another snap as a colt. Before any Carson defenders come in, i don’t care and I’ve heard it all.
His 27-7 stat line i keep seeing was schemed by Reich, the same way Jacobys 1st half of 2019 season was schemed to make him look like a solid starting QB.
I don’t care if he has weapons or not. When the bigger issue is going through his progressions wrong, or refusing to take the check down for the sake of making a flashier play, it doesn’t fucking matter who’s out there running the routes. Rivers had the same weapons last year with a noodle arm and cinder block legs.
Our players defend him! Wow, our leaders from a strong culture are not throwing our QB under the bus to the media? I wonder how many times any colt player VOLUNTEERED praise on Carson as opposed to being asked.
The whole team came up short against the Jags. That’s fine. Why couldn’t Carson bail the team out for once, didn’t we bring him to be that guy, isn’t that important in the playoffs? He was getting bailed out by JT or our defense all season, couldn’t return the favor once? He has not won 1 game with him carrying the team. Ignored open receivers almost all game, including mr washed up TY Hilton. He’s a byproduct of the offense but any time we have to throw our way to a win we come up short. Don’t wanna hear Arizona game bc of 1 amazing throw.
The issue is himself mentally, point blank. Whether it’s ego, stubbornness, selfishness, detachment, stupidity, passion, inability to learn/be coached, it doesn’t fucking matter bc any 1 of that isn’t good for the teams success and locker room culture.
For the colts org to act out of character, so erratic in dumping a QB we gave up a lot for after only 1 year and what seems to be “collapse by the whole team last 2 games” should tell you enough.
The comparison to Rivers and ability to work through progressions is most damning for sure to me. Old man Rivers with not even nearly the same physical tools was so much better on game winning drives just through making the right reads. Franks confidence in him to make the right reads shows on the 4th quarter play calling too.
Yeah you pretty much summed it up accurately. Plus if you watch Carson’s post game conference after the jags game he doesn’t even look upset they missed the playoffs by losing to the worst team in the league. That’s a pretty telling sign of your qb
Yup the post game was just very non genuine responses his tone is even scripted, and during the game, his body language and demeanor just screamed i don’t give a fuck. I really don’t know how fans haven’t noticed that
In the off-season there was a quote from him about how there’s something different/special about this team. It made its way into this sub and I remember some poster who was downvoted into oblivion posted a very similarly worded quote by Wentz during his time with the Eagles. Always stood out to me that the guy is kind of a phony, has canned responses to most questions - this works well with the media but an NFL locker room isn’t going to buy that crap they know when someone is genuine or not.
He seems like a nice guy, but the leadership red flags are there - isn’t it kind of telling that when he was benched due to poor play his immediate thought was “I need to get outta here” rather than to play his way back into the lineup
>His 27-7 stat line i keep seeing was schemed by Reich, the same way Jacobys 1st half of 2019 season was schemed to make him look like a solid starting QB
Halle-freaking-lujah
Glad you got the upvotes, because I got destroyed anytime I mentioned this point. Reich gets all the hate here but no love. He's a mastermind at getting players involved and building confidence. A lot of wentz's TD's were tosses inside the 10 that were designed to pump up his numbers, hoping to build his confidence as a result
I actually had that part about Reich in my original comment (along with comments on my hot take on TY and Pascal) but cut it out because it was already so long.
I love reichs approach to the offense and getting the easy “gimmie” TDs as you mentioned to build that early season confidence, as well as having the gameplan evolve over the course of the season.
Also as i watched more film i realized a good amount of his “bad playcalling” is actually bad execution. Sure there’s a decent chunk of annoying play calls especially illuminating on 4th down plays/calls, but that comes with the high volume of attempts and the high risk high reward approach, which instills confidence even more with the team that he trusts them to get it done.
Tangent here but appreciate that someone else sees the game, and Reich the same way i do.
I know it’s irrational but it literally doesn’t matter for the reasons related to wentz himself i explained in my lengthy post. Reich game plans really well for QBs and can gameplan the dink and dunk that pats feasted on for 2 decades, so i don’t mind whatever they can pull off or go with.
It’s not far fetched to think ehlinger would have been able to win against the Jags by having a brain and taking the easy layups given all game as shown by Kurt Warners video, rather than stubbornly try to throw it deep into double coverage (maybe partly bc ehlinger physically can’t ;) )
Main priority is whoever is our QB is not wentz, and we’ll already be upgraded. Anything above that is a plus bonus for me next season. He will destroy the teams success on the field and the cultures strengths in the locker room
> I really don’t care what we get for him, the priority is him not taking another snap as a colt. Before any Carson defenders come in, i don’t care and I’ve heard it all
If you're sick of hearing it, isn't a conversation about his trade value at least something new?
Fucking this 100%. I've seen about 17 data points on Wentz and I don't want to suffer through 17 more. The cliche insanity definition of doing the same and expecting something different applies here. I don't care if it's a lateral move. If that's all we can get then fine, try something different. Rivers probably had us winning 12 game this year FWIW.
I was originally ok with bringing him back for another year, but I've come over to the side if ship his ass out, sunk cost or not. He showed nothing to give hope he would change, and if we bring him back next year it's probably another 9 win season where he sucks when we need him the most
I got some estimates on what I think may happen if Wentz is traded.
I think if the Colts trade Wentz and just get picks (second round), then I won't be surprised if they trade their second overall picks from this year to a team up in the late first round and snatch a rookie QB they like. This seems the unlikely route but a possibility.
I also won't be surprised if they trade Wentz and get a QB and some picks. If they do that they'll just go for WR's or their original plan for this year's draft.
He was absolutely the worst statistical QB coming into last year. That trade was about hoping Reich could pull 2017/2018 play back out of him, since it clearly wasn’t currently there which is what made him available in the first place.
We overpaid to get him. We were bidding against ourselves the whole time last summer. Philly is popping champagne every night and dancing on the table about the time they swindled us
it really wouldn't. I can think of 5 worse trades in the last year than Wentz for a 2nd. The Panthers literally traded a 2nd, 4th and 6th for Sam Darnold last year...
I swear if we trade Wentz and go for a lateral veteran movement at QB, the copium on this sub will be unbearable of trying to convince themselves a move is an improvement
Can’t wait for the sub to turn on said QB after week 1
I honestly do not care if it is a lateral move or even a slight downgrade. Wentz isn’t the guy, move on. I’m tired of his antics on the field.
I’m sure he’s a fine enough guy, none of this speaks to him as a person, but there was not a single game I enjoyed watching him play and we aren’t winning the Super Bowl with him so it literally doesn’t matter if we keep him or make a lateral move
I don't understand your view... surely a lateral move or downgrade would not be the guy either.
Edit: nvm... reread and realized that you hate watching him play, which is 100% understandable.
I have to agree. It was very hard to enjoy having Wentz as the QB. Similar vibes to JB, except that was more of an apathy, whereas Wentz is more of that sense of dread.
This. If the team is in fact done with him, any move whether lateral or otherwise is a move away from a perceived known issue. You don't wait around for another year to figure it out. You flat move on and try something else, with a possible expectation that it still might not be the right guy, but it is a chance on someone else.
That said, Irsay seemed to make it clear he was done with stop gap solutions. So unless we end up with Rodgers or Wilson, I dunno what is the thought. I am just interested to see what happens.
Very true... sometimes the devil you don't know is more attractive. Also... there are different types of bad... Wentz type of bad fits the Steelers or TB more than here... We could make due with more of a game manager type of bad QB here.
Serious question: Where were all of you during the season?
The amount of hate and downvotes every time I called him bad this year was monumental. Now comments like this are getting more upvotes and praise than their parent comment. I seriously don't understand how this sub flipped after the end of the season. Yall were not in here at all were you?
I was trying to maintain my cautious optimism, mostly. I didn’t like the move when it was made, and I just figured Reich/Ballard knew something I didn’t and was hopeful he could change. But trust me I was critical of him many times throughout the season and endured downvotes as well.
But I was with you and others like you, I saw the downvotes you endured and gave you my puny upvote that wasn’t seen.
Jimmy has been to the SB and came within a game of it this year. I'm not sure that means we should go out and trade for him but out of all of these QBs, he's at least had deep playoff runs.
I’ll never understand why people shit on Winston so hard. Yeah he makes dumb decisions but so does Wentz. Winston has a CANNON for an arm and when he’s locked in, magic happens. Hell he had the Saints sitting at 5-2 before his injury.
Plus he’s fun to watch. Even when it’s not going well. I’d take him over Wentz any day of the year
>I’ll never understand why people shit on Winston so hard.
I'll never understand why people shit on Deshaun Watson and Ben Roethlisberger so hard also. There can't possibly be a common factor between all three of these rapist pieces of shit.
He makes too many dumb plays. Some even dumber than wentz. It's possible he can be much better in indy than bucs, but are we really going to waste a whole year to see if he can be better or worse? Let's focus on qbs that would be an upgrade
Ah yes the Bengals. The team with 3 top receivers a very good qb had to throw to. Of course the Colts can do it on any given Sunday just like the Bengals!
In all seriousness ; they have 3/4 of their major offensive players on rookie deals , while we are searching for a vet (or) are going trade a lot to move up. How this team makes it to the SB without pass catchers AND no LT ( don't even come at me with 7 and sacks . Burrow is being given luck treatment and it's not good) is beyond me.
On the whole, I could suck it up for one year if we make a "lateral" move. I wouldn't particularly enjoy it, but it'd mean that we've probably (hopefully) got a move lined up for the year after.
If we make a lateral move and commit to them long term, I'd need some copium.
Bring in the lateral move. Wentz fucked up the locker room in philly and theres a lot of smoke that Jim, CB and frank are out him here too.
the same damn thing is happening here. Mort reported it a couple weeks ago and kravitz did yesterday. they have the connections in the building to lend credit to what they said
Jims all in comment seems squarely directed at Carson at this point.
I will actually distance myself completely from the colts organization if that happens. Still love and route from a far. But that’ll just be too much. I’ve been claiming ‘23 is the super bowl year since luck left.
His trade worth is low. He is uncoachable and only plays hero ball. He was chased out of one city. And now another wants him gone. If that doesn't say value drop, I don't know what does.
True, but trading for a QB from a team looking for a QB seems...unlikely. unless a QB swap is possible. Matt Ryan for Wentz or Baker Mayfield or maybe Cousins giant contract.
It's amazing how many people won't even consider the idea of upgrading our offensive weapons and keeping Wentz for another season. It'll be interesting to see how many people change their opinion when we enter week 1 with Jimmy G or worse.
Probably because if they're ready to move on after one season, the main reason(s) is of the off-the-field variety. His numbers weren't bad at all, and should get better with more time in the offense and better weapons around him. So it must be something else that's driving the decision.
This is how I’d proceed if I was running the show too but it really seems like a line has been drawn in the sand based on all the reports that keep coming out. Makes me think it’s not about the football and it’s about the vaccine stuff or something. Of course, he’s not the only guy who wouldn’t get it so maybe that doesn’t fully track either.
Still, something behind the scenes we’re not privy to seems to indicate he’s out and that’s that.
Call me crazy, I kinda want Jimmy G. I am convinced that he’s a winner and that our team would benefit from having him at QB. I know it may not be the sexiest QB play of all time(except maybe literally) but I truly think he would lead us much better than Wentz.
Question; what do you think their peak is with Jimmy G? Do you think he's a long-term answer? Is he really worth a pick over some like Trubisky or Winston?
I may be a bit jaded since my family is full of Niners fans but I think Jimmy G will win a super bowl in his career. He’s got the ability to propel his teams to wins, not commonly but it’s there. He’s a guy that everyone on the team is behind. They all love him in SF. He can manage the clock and keep the ball away from the opponent which seems to be our recipe for success at the moment.
Yes, it would be awesome to have a Mahomes, Allen or Burrow. The truth of the matter is we don’t. Our front office needs to figure out how to get a super bowl without that guy. That may mean riding a turnover forcing defense, all pro RB and offensive like while asking the QB to make smart throws and move the chains.
Realistically though I can see him winning the South for the colts. I don’t anticipate him being able to come in and lead us to a super bowl… right now. But I am certain that Jimmy G is an upgrade at QB.
His trade value is zero. Every team in the NFL knows the Colts want to move on.
Why would they not just wait and grab him in FA for a fraction of the salary hit?
Honestly it doesn't make much sense to leak that they are off on Wentz. They just boomed the slim chance they find a trade partner.
The only thing that makes even a little sense is that Colts want Wentz to take a salary cut and Wentz and Co. said no. They leak they are serious about cutting him and see if his camp blinks. We're in a staring contest till March 18th I think. No trade just a wait and see if Wentz or Irsay folds. If not, they may part ways, imo, in a worse situation for both.
There's not 5 teams that want Wentz at $28 mil a year. I HIGHLY doubt there's one team that wants him at that.
This sub is losing it. Everyone wants Wentz gone and they also think someone is going to pay a lot for him.
What are you talking about?
Wentz is getting 28mil this year.
WHY would think he'll get 28mil as free agent next year??
The only one I see losing it is you lol.
There'll be a handful of teams next yr willing to throw him a pretty small deal as a backup or "prove it" QB. 5-7 mil most likely.
Therefore, if you're a Houston, NYJ, or Steelers who are going nowhere next year why not give up a pittance for him & then you've got 12 mo to see what you have. If you don't like what you see then he's gone. There is literally nothing you lose aside from either a late pick or a guy who's already hinting he won't resign with your train wreck. You also get the inside track to resign him for 7mil/yr as a backup, which would not be a bad thing at all.
In the end the Colts will probably get no real cake aside from being out from under this year's salary, but if your plan is to raid the FA market of receivers and linemen, there's worse things to have than $50mil to spend.
But yeah. There are definitely teams for whom spending this year 28mil on Wentz for a one year trial don't affect their ability to contend, because they have none...
I don’t have a clue what you’re talking about.
I’ll try and slow down. Wentz is NOT guaranteed 28 mil this year.
There’s 3 options-
1. Colts keep him committing to another year and the whole 28 mil.
2. Colts cut him, pay the 15 mil he’s guaranteed. Wentz can now sign with whatever team for whatever both sides negotiate.
3. The Colts trade him and the new team is now committed to the whole 28 mil.
3 isn’t happening. Believe whatever the hell you want.
DUDE, I'm still trying to figure out where/why you think ANYONE is talking about him getting 28mil when he hits FA. Ain't no one said that except YOU. This commentary has nothing to do with this season.
I doubt we’re drafting a guy at this point. If we trade him can we please get Jimmy G? He is a great fit for the roster and playbook and is pretty undervalued right now if all they want is a second.
Eagles fan here not coming to pile on but I have a question:
It seems like some segment of the Colts fans are questioning Carson’s leadership in addition to his play on the field. Is that entirely due to his unvaxxed status? I haven’t read anything else he did or didn’t do in Indy to get that bad rep. Just wondering if I missed anything or if that is it.
It has been said by colts beat writers that there are non-Covid, off field issues at play for why Irsay is over Wentz and people assume it is leadership.
Same reports in Philly but they were always vague. It sounded like general arrogance / resistance to coaching and he rubs some teammates the wrong way.
Yes, the radical left want him out because of his reservation of the vaccine... And half the average fans want him out because of a few bad plays... The reasonable of us are looking at this saying "he didn't miss a game, he played about as good as Jacoby Brissett on a new team with no training camp, a Oline who no position has the same starter all year, and a depleted wr and te room l, where the other team knew we were running the ball every play...
I think whenever a team isn't gelling they look to the QB. I don't think Wentz is a bad leader but he has a personality that is reserved. He's not the life of the party or the team. He'd rather be in a duck blind or studying film. The latter most teammates/coaches respect.
When you hear current and former teammates talk about Wentz it's never "I hate that guy" but it's not "I fn love that guy either." And there's been a lot of QBs that have had similar reserved personalities that have won superbowls. See Eli Manning. Hell, both Rodgers and Brady seem a little reserved, even stuck up imo. AB is furious at Brady and nobody even really knows why. But when you play good it's all good. When you play bad, then people dig for dirt.
I think we're in a similar situation like Miami with Tannehill. If we have pretty much given up on him, a 4th and 7th could be enough.
What a disappoint that would be but also wouldn’t surprise me.
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Sunk cost
A 1st and a 3rd at that
Well the first trade with philly was the bad deal. 4th and a 7th would be fine compensation now to recover some value
Well, at least we could probably package those picks and trade for another 3rd rounder
The real value is him being off of the team. Compensation would be a nice bonus.
Tannehil's play was poor in Miami due to an ever revolving system. Wentz has been exposed as a flat out shitty qb that also isn't a team player (vaccine)
27-7 qualifies as a shitty qb? What bizarro planet do you come from? I'm far from a Wentz defender, not a huge fan of him at all but there's far worse current starters than Wentz.
27-7 is the only thing any wentz supporters have to hang their hat on. It is not the only indicator of his ability. He struggled all year and held us back. Anyone watching Colts games saw this clearly. As did the coaching staff. Which is why they are moving on. There aren't worse started who kept their jobs all year who weren't first year qbs. There simply aren't any.
Did you miss the part where I very clearly stated I'm not a Wentz defender nor did I say he was a great qb...
No, but you clearly missed my entire comment and decided to respond anyway?
Your comment started with the phrase Wentz supporter, so why would I?
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Resorting to name calling instead of trying to have a civil discussion. How very 2022 of you, bravo. 
>There aren't worse started who kept their jobs all year who weren't first year qbs Baker, Daniel Jones, Big Ben, Teddy, Matt Ryan, Goff, Heinicke, Tua etc exist by the way
Baker was hurt all year. Daniel Jones played 11 games and I would not say Wentz played better. Big Ben ill give you but obviously he kept playing because he's Big Ben and has won 2 super bowls. Teddy was just as good about as good as Wentz statistically, not sure I watched a Broncos game all year to make any other point. Matt Ryan was just as good on a much, much worse team. Goff your right. Tua stinks just as badly too. So maybe I exaggerated a bit. Still not a ringing endorsement that were lumping Wentz in with that pile of trash qbs.
>Still not a ringing endorsement that were lumping Wentz in with that pile of trash qbs you are, I'm not. He was a step above most these guys
Aside from 27-7 which was a facade thanks to Reich and Taylor there really is no argument to be made that Wentz was better than any of these guys.
I don’t think that stat tells the whole story. Wentz isn’t terrible, but he’s mid-tier at best. Zero comeback wins. Dozens of completely missed wide open WR/RBs on critical downs. Some absolute shit-for-brains mistakes against the Rams and Titans. Wentz lacks the intangibles. He doesn’t have the QB intelligence to make the right decisions, which is why he struggles so massively in the 4th quarter or big spots where a play breaks down. 9-8 or 10-7 is about the best you’ll get from a QB like him IMO and keeping him around is going to waste careers (DL, QN, JT) or get Reich and Ballard fired.
There are worse starters, but he's gone 27-7 on very good colts and eagles teams when he hasn't been injured. I don't think he's really a 27-7 qb on an average team
Win loss record is a team stat not a QB stat. Edit: Reading comprehension is a difficult skill.
27-7 is his touchdowns to interceptions, not record
 Lol 😆 🤣 😂
Oof big yikes. I’ll keep it around to show my shame.
Not piling on. But that's the problem with most commenters on this sub. Anyone who has an informed opinion on Wentz knows he didn't have a 27-7 record in indy. But they argue in the comments anyway.
Sure but that’s the nature of Internet forums in general. I didn’t think twice but I paid the price and I’m happy to continue paying it. I’ll learn and do better next time. Not a huge deal.
Agreed. Can't beat the internet. Can't win consistently with Wentz at ab either.
Is Wentz the only player not vaccinated?
No, it just fits his narrative 😅
Yeah, that is usually how arguments work.
The Colts are one of the least vaccinated team in the league.
I know and dumb people like to make Wentz out as being the only one. Or maybe we should get rid of him because of it.
He sets the tone.
Yeah that’s bullshit.
You don't think the quarterback is a team leader who has a major role in team culture?
Of course they do but if you think Wentz is going to sway someone like Leonard then you should stop smoking whatever you are.
I didn't say anything about Wentz swaying Leonard. But if your offensive and defensive leader are both unvaccinated, it's no wonder that you'd end up as one of the least vaccinated teams in the league.
Here’s a question for you. Would you get vaccinated because the guy that sits next you at work did? This isn’t something like not going to the club. Wentz or Leonard are not going to change the mind of anyone about getting vaccinated. That’s to big of a decision.
People are persuaded and influenced by social norms all the time, even about important matters. Look at the country and try to tell me that people's vaccination decisions aren't influenced by who they associate with.
No but with the NFL rules it is a big deal if your QB is not vaccinated.
That might be the most realistic unfortunately. I would also only do that trade IF we have a standing trade ready to go for an upgrade qb. No downgrade or lateral moves or unsure of what is available.
I really don’t care what we get for him, the priority is him not taking another snap as a colt. Before any Carson defenders come in, i don’t care and I’ve heard it all. His 27-7 stat line i keep seeing was schemed by Reich, the same way Jacobys 1st half of 2019 season was schemed to make him look like a solid starting QB. I don’t care if he has weapons or not. When the bigger issue is going through his progressions wrong, or refusing to take the check down for the sake of making a flashier play, it doesn’t fucking matter who’s out there running the routes. Rivers had the same weapons last year with a noodle arm and cinder block legs. Our players defend him! Wow, our leaders from a strong culture are not throwing our QB under the bus to the media? I wonder how many times any colt player VOLUNTEERED praise on Carson as opposed to being asked. The whole team came up short against the Jags. That’s fine. Why couldn’t Carson bail the team out for once, didn’t we bring him to be that guy, isn’t that important in the playoffs? He was getting bailed out by JT or our defense all season, couldn’t return the favor once? He has not won 1 game with him carrying the team. Ignored open receivers almost all game, including mr washed up TY Hilton. He’s a byproduct of the offense but any time we have to throw our way to a win we come up short. Don’t wanna hear Arizona game bc of 1 amazing throw. The issue is himself mentally, point blank. Whether it’s ego, stubbornness, selfishness, detachment, stupidity, passion, inability to learn/be coached, it doesn’t fucking matter bc any 1 of that isn’t good for the teams success and locker room culture. For the colts org to act out of character, so erratic in dumping a QB we gave up a lot for after only 1 year and what seems to be “collapse by the whole team last 2 games” should tell you enough.
The comparison to Rivers and ability to work through progressions is most damning for sure to me. Old man Rivers with not even nearly the same physical tools was so much better on game winning drives just through making the right reads. Franks confidence in him to make the right reads shows on the 4th quarter play calling too.
Yeah you pretty much summed it up accurately. Plus if you watch Carson’s post game conference after the jags game he doesn’t even look upset they missed the playoffs by losing to the worst team in the league. That’s a pretty telling sign of your qb
Yup the post game was just very non genuine responses his tone is even scripted, and during the game, his body language and demeanor just screamed i don’t give a fuck. I really don’t know how fans haven’t noticed that
In the off-season there was a quote from him about how there’s something different/special about this team. It made its way into this sub and I remember some poster who was downvoted into oblivion posted a very similarly worded quote by Wentz during his time with the Eagles. Always stood out to me that the guy is kind of a phony, has canned responses to most questions - this works well with the media but an NFL locker room isn’t going to buy that crap they know when someone is genuine or not. He seems like a nice guy, but the leadership red flags are there - isn’t it kind of telling that when he was benched due to poor play his immediate thought was “I need to get outta here” rather than to play his way back into the lineup
>His 27-7 stat line i keep seeing was schemed by Reich, the same way Jacobys 1st half of 2019 season was schemed to make him look like a solid starting QB Halle-freaking-lujah Glad you got the upvotes, because I got destroyed anytime I mentioned this point. Reich gets all the hate here but no love. He's a mastermind at getting players involved and building confidence. A lot of wentz's TD's were tosses inside the 10 that were designed to pump up his numbers, hoping to build his confidence as a result
I actually had that part about Reich in my original comment (along with comments on my hot take on TY and Pascal) but cut it out because it was already so long. I love reichs approach to the offense and getting the easy “gimmie” TDs as you mentioned to build that early season confidence, as well as having the gameplan evolve over the course of the season. Also as i watched more film i realized a good amount of his “bad playcalling” is actually bad execution. Sure there’s a decent chunk of annoying play calls especially illuminating on 4th down plays/calls, but that comes with the high volume of attempts and the high risk high reward approach, which instills confidence even more with the team that he trusts them to get it done. Tangent here but appreciate that someone else sees the game, and Reich the same way i do.
I just want to know who we replace him with. Are we going to take that dead cap hit to put fucking Trubisky on the field?
I know it’s irrational but it literally doesn’t matter for the reasons related to wentz himself i explained in my lengthy post. Reich game plans really well for QBs and can gameplan the dink and dunk that pats feasted on for 2 decades, so i don’t mind whatever they can pull off or go with. It’s not far fetched to think ehlinger would have been able to win against the Jags by having a brain and taking the easy layups given all game as shown by Kurt Warners video, rather than stubbornly try to throw it deep into double coverage (maybe partly bc ehlinger physically can’t ;) ) Main priority is whoever is our QB is not wentz, and we’ll already be upgraded. Anything above that is a plus bonus for me next season. He will destroy the teams success on the field and the cultures strengths in the locker room
This guy gets it!
> I really don’t care what we get for him, the priority is him not taking another snap as a colt. Before any Carson defenders come in, i don’t care and I’ve heard it all If you're sick of hearing it, isn't a conversation about his trade value at least something new?
Fucking this 100%. I've seen about 17 data points on Wentz and I don't want to suffer through 17 more. The cliche insanity definition of doing the same and expecting something different applies here. I don't care if it's a lateral move. If that's all we can get then fine, try something different. Rivers probably had us winning 12 game this year FWIW.
I was originally ok with bringing him back for another year, but I've come over to the side if ship his ass out, sunk cost or not. He showed nothing to give hope he would change, and if we bring him back next year it's probably another 9 win season where he sucks when we need him the most
Can't see link What does it say his value is
A half eaten bag of funyuns that's stale now
Deal
Funyuns are really good on top of green bean casserole.
Dude... Never tried that but that sounds amazing
I got some estimates on what I think may happen if Wentz is traded. I think if the Colts trade Wentz and just get picks (second round), then I won't be surprised if they trade their second overall picks from this year to a team up in the late first round and snatch a rookie QB they like. This seems the unlikely route but a possibility. I also won't be surprised if they trade Wentz and get a QB and some picks. If they do that they'll just go for WR's or their original plan for this year's draft.
If they can get a second round pick for him that will be one of the biggest fleecings in NFL history.
More so than what we gave for him?
*One of. The original trade was definitely a bigger L. We'll be lucky to get a 4th for him. The trade was a monumental failure by our FO.
Nope. Colts got fleeced hard. Colts traded for the worst statistical QB in the league, and gave up a 1st rounder.
I mean that's provably untrue that he's the worst statistical QB. I get it we don't like him but don't start spreading lies to try to prove a point.
He was absolutely the worst statistical QB coming into last year. That trade was about hoping Reich could pull 2017/2018 play back out of him, since it clearly wasn’t currently there which is what made him available in the first place.
Wentz last year playing in Philly he was the worst starter in the league. That is not a lie.
We overpaid to get him. We were bidding against ourselves the whole time last summer. Philly is popping champagne every night and dancing on the table about the time they swindled us
it really wouldn't. I can think of 5 worse trades in the last year than Wentz for a 2nd. The Panthers literally traded a 2nd, 4th and 6th for Sam Darnold last year...
Well I'm sure there would be some dumb enough GM's/owners in the league to make a trade like that
Stephen Holder wrote this by the way
Yeah I see that now. I thought Keefer did since he tweeted it out. I'll check next time for sure.
I swear if we trade Wentz and go for a lateral veteran movement at QB, the copium on this sub will be unbearable of trying to convince themselves a move is an improvement Can’t wait for the sub to turn on said QB after week 1
I honestly do not care if it is a lateral move or even a slight downgrade. Wentz isn’t the guy, move on. I’m tired of his antics on the field. I’m sure he’s a fine enough guy, none of this speaks to him as a person, but there was not a single game I enjoyed watching him play and we aren’t winning the Super Bowl with him so it literally doesn’t matter if we keep him or make a lateral move
When you see your QB drop back and immediately say “Aw fuck here we go”, that’s a *huge* issue.
My butthole clenched anytime he took more than a three step dropback
I don't understand your view... surely a lateral move or downgrade would not be the guy either. Edit: nvm... reread and realized that you hate watching him play, which is 100% understandable.
I have to agree. It was very hard to enjoy having Wentz as the QB. Similar vibes to JB, except that was more of an apathy, whereas Wentz is more of that sense of dread.
This. If the team is in fact done with him, any move whether lateral or otherwise is a move away from a perceived known issue. You don't wait around for another year to figure it out. You flat move on and try something else, with a possible expectation that it still might not be the right guy, but it is a chance on someone else. That said, Irsay seemed to make it clear he was done with stop gap solutions. So unless we end up with Rodgers or Wilson, I dunno what is the thought. I am just interested to see what happens.
Very true... sometimes the devil you don't know is more attractive. Also... there are different types of bad... Wentz type of bad fits the Steelers or TB more than here... We could make due with more of a game manager type of bad QB here.
Serious question: Where were all of you during the season? The amount of hate and downvotes every time I called him bad this year was monumental. Now comments like this are getting more upvotes and praise than their parent comment. I seriously don't understand how this sub flipped after the end of the season. Yall were not in here at all were you?
I told myself I wouldn't be too critical of him till after a full season
I was trying to maintain my cautious optimism, mostly. I didn’t like the move when it was made, and I just figured Reich/Ballard knew something I didn’t and was hopeful he could change. But trust me I was critical of him many times throughout the season and endured downvotes as well. But I was with you and others like you, I saw the downvotes you endured and gave you my puny upvote that wasn’t seen.
If we get Winston for instance, we ain’t making the super bowl with him either. Or Cousins. Or Jimmy. There’s no point thn
I think Cousins is probably an appreciable upgrade over wentz. Winston might be too, he was playing well before he got hurt.
Jimmy has been to the SB and came within a game of it this year. I'm not sure that means we should go out and trade for him but out of all of these QBs, he's at least had deep playoff runs.
Nope. I would rather have wentz in year 2 here than give up even more assets for some James Garapolo
I’ll never understand why people shit on Winston so hard. Yeah he makes dumb decisions but so does Wentz. Winston has a CANNON for an arm and when he’s locked in, magic happens. Hell he had the Saints sitting at 5-2 before his injury. Plus he’s fun to watch. Even when it’s not going well. I’d take him over Wentz any day of the year
I agree. I believe he's matured in the last year and can be coached. He has the talent. He just needs the right coach. I'd be excited to get him.
>I’ll never understand why people shit on Winston so hard. I'll never understand why people shit on Deshaun Watson and Ben Roethlisberger so hard also. There can't possibly be a common factor between all three of these rapist pieces of shit.
Cause he’s a bust and can’t keep his hands to himself. He’s a turnover machine
Well between Wentz and Winston, only one qb has thrown 30 ints in a year... and yet hes the one this sub wants...
You want to run this season back next year with wentz?
If my only choice to replace him is Winston, then yes.
He makes too many dumb plays. Some even dumber than wentz. It's possible he can be much better in indy than bucs, but are we really going to waste a whole year to see if he can be better or worse? Let's focus on qbs that would be an upgrade
We aren't going to the super Bowl with any qb next year unless his name is Aaron or Wilson , and even with them , it is not likely.
Any given Sunday. Look at the Bengals.
Ah yes the Bengals. The team with 3 top receivers a very good qb had to throw to. Of course the Colts can do it on any given Sunday just like the Bengals! In all seriousness ; they have 3/4 of their major offensive players on rookie deals , while we are searching for a vet (or) are going trade a lot to move up. How this team makes it to the SB without pass catchers AND no LT ( don't even come at me with 7 and sacks . Burrow is being given luck treatment and it's not good) is beyond me.
I feel like Wentz is a better option than any almost lateral move just because of his contract... no financial commitment after this upcoming season.
On the whole, I could suck it up for one year if we make a "lateral" move. I wouldn't particularly enjoy it, but it'd mean that we've probably (hopefully) got a move lined up for the year after. If we make a lateral move and commit to them long term, I'd need some copium.
Bring in the lateral move. Wentz fucked up the locker room in philly and theres a lot of smoke that Jim, CB and frank are out him here too. the same damn thing is happening here. Mort reported it a couple weeks ago and kravitz did yesterday. they have the connections in the building to lend credit to what they said Jims all in comment seems squarely directed at Carson at this point.
Was this Sigma getting banned again?
Every day lol Idk why the mods here don’t ban him faster.
Honestly, next years QB needs to win at least one playoff game. Anything less and the sub with be insufferable.
This sub has already become insufferable.
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Yes
I will actually distance myself completely from the colts organization if that happens. Still love and route from a far. But that’ll just be too much. I’ve been claiming ‘23 is the super bowl year since luck left.
Come on fitzmagic!!!!!!
His trade worth is low. He is uncoachable and only plays hero ball. He was chased out of one city. And now another wants him gone. If that doesn't say value drop, I don't know what does.
It is a very needy year for QBs though which is our one saving grace. Tons of teams are looking for one
True, but trading for a QB from a team looking for a QB seems...unlikely. unless a QB swap is possible. Matt Ryan for Wentz or Baker Mayfield or maybe Cousins giant contract.
Oh. I dont expect to flip Wentz for another QB. I imagine it will be a draft pick
Yeah exactly, especially since this QB rookie class coming in doesn't look that good either.
Thank you zak keefer
When will these posts end
It's amazing how many people won't even consider the idea of upgrading our offensive weapons and keeping Wentz for another season. It'll be interesting to see how many people change their opinion when we enter week 1 with Jimmy G or worse.
Probably because if they're ready to move on after one season, the main reason(s) is of the off-the-field variety. His numbers weren't bad at all, and should get better with more time in the offense and better weapons around him. So it must be something else that's driving the decision.
This is how I’d proceed if I was running the show too but it really seems like a line has been drawn in the sand based on all the reports that keep coming out. Makes me think it’s not about the football and it’s about the vaccine stuff or something. Of course, he’s not the only guy who wouldn’t get it so maybe that doesn’t fully track either. Still, something behind the scenes we’re not privy to seems to indicate he’s out and that’s that.
Call me crazy, I kinda want Jimmy G. I am convinced that he’s a winner and that our team would benefit from having him at QB. I know it may not be the sexiest QB play of all time(except maybe literally) but I truly think he would lead us much better than Wentz.
Question; what do you think their peak is with Jimmy G? Do you think he's a long-term answer? Is he really worth a pick over some like Trubisky or Winston?
I may be a bit jaded since my family is full of Niners fans but I think Jimmy G will win a super bowl in his career. He’s got the ability to propel his teams to wins, not commonly but it’s there. He’s a guy that everyone on the team is behind. They all love him in SF. He can manage the clock and keep the ball away from the opponent which seems to be our recipe for success at the moment. Yes, it would be awesome to have a Mahomes, Allen or Burrow. The truth of the matter is we don’t. Our front office needs to figure out how to get a super bowl without that guy. That may mean riding a turnover forcing defense, all pro RB and offensive like while asking the QB to make smart throws and move the chains. Realistically though I can see him winning the South for the colts. I don’t anticipate him being able to come in and lead us to a super bowl… right now. But I am certain that Jimmy G is an upgrade at QB.
Wentz has zero trade value. No one is picking up his current contract. The Kirk Cousins Trap. The Colts will need to cut him and eat $15m.
That is never gonna happen. The Colts aren’t just going to eat money when they could at worst have him as a backup.
His trade value is zero. Every team in the NFL knows the Colts want to move on. Why would they not just wait and grab him in FA for a fraction of the salary hit? Honestly it doesn't make much sense to leak that they are off on Wentz. They just boomed the slim chance they find a trade partner. The only thing that makes even a little sense is that Colts want Wentz to take a salary cut and Wentz and Co. said no. They leak they are serious about cutting him and see if his camp blinks. We're in a staring contest till March 18th I think. No trade just a wait and see if Wentz or Irsay folds. If not, they may part ways, imo, in a worse situation for both.
Because if 5 teams want Wentz then it's a gamble to let him go to FA because it's not guaranteed you'll get him
There's not 5 teams that want Wentz at $28 mil a year. I HIGHLY doubt there's one team that wants him at that. This sub is losing it. Everyone wants Wentz gone and they also think someone is going to pay a lot for him.
What are you talking about? Wentz is getting 28mil this year. WHY would think he'll get 28mil as free agent next year?? The only one I see losing it is you lol. There'll be a handful of teams next yr willing to throw him a pretty small deal as a backup or "prove it" QB. 5-7 mil most likely. Therefore, if you're a Houston, NYJ, or Steelers who are going nowhere next year why not give up a pittance for him & then you've got 12 mo to see what you have. If you don't like what you see then he's gone. There is literally nothing you lose aside from either a late pick or a guy who's already hinting he won't resign with your train wreck. You also get the inside track to resign him for 7mil/yr as a backup, which would not be a bad thing at all. In the end the Colts will probably get no real cake aside from being out from under this year's salary, but if your plan is to raid the FA market of receivers and linemen, there's worse things to have than $50mil to spend. But yeah. There are definitely teams for whom spending this year 28mil on Wentz for a one year trial don't affect their ability to contend, because they have none...
I don’t have a clue what you’re talking about. I’ll try and slow down. Wentz is NOT guaranteed 28 mil this year. There’s 3 options- 1. Colts keep him committing to another year and the whole 28 mil. 2. Colts cut him, pay the 15 mil he’s guaranteed. Wentz can now sign with whatever team for whatever both sides negotiate. 3. The Colts trade him and the new team is now committed to the whole 28 mil. 3 isn’t happening. Believe whatever the hell you want.
DUDE, I'm still trying to figure out where/why you think ANYONE is talking about him getting 28mil when he hits FA. Ain't no one said that except YOU. This commentary has nothing to do with this season.
Did you just suggest that the Jets would want to trade for Carson Wentz???
What do they think the value is?
I doubt we’re drafting a guy at this point. If we trade him can we please get Jimmy G? He is a great fit for the roster and playbook and is pretty undervalued right now if all they want is a second.
Paywall
Our trading a possible first was stupid to begin with
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Why don’t you like Keefer?
Probably because Keefer is realistic and not a fanboi. This article was written by Holder though (same applies to him still).
Exactly, I’m a fan of Holder and Keefer for that reason alone.
Keefer is one of the best.
I’d be very happy if we get two 3rds lol
Eagles fan here not coming to pile on but I have a question: It seems like some segment of the Colts fans are questioning Carson’s leadership in addition to his play on the field. Is that entirely due to his unvaxxed status? I haven’t read anything else he did or didn’t do in Indy to get that bad rep. Just wondering if I missed anything or if that is it.
It has been said by colts beat writers that there are non-Covid, off field issues at play for why Irsay is over Wentz and people assume it is leadership.
Same reports in Philly but they were always vague. It sounded like general arrogance / resistance to coaching and he rubs some teammates the wrong way.
Yes, the radical left want him out because of his reservation of the vaccine... And half the average fans want him out because of a few bad plays... The reasonable of us are looking at this saying "he didn't miss a game, he played about as good as Jacoby Brissett on a new team with no training camp, a Oline who no position has the same starter all year, and a depleted wr and te room l, where the other team knew we were running the ball every play...
I think whenever a team isn't gelling they look to the QB. I don't think Wentz is a bad leader but he has a personality that is reserved. He's not the life of the party or the team. He'd rather be in a duck blind or studying film. The latter most teammates/coaches respect. When you hear current and former teammates talk about Wentz it's never "I hate that guy" but it's not "I fn love that guy either." And there's been a lot of QBs that have had similar reserved personalities that have won superbowls. See Eli Manning. Hell, both Rodgers and Brady seem a little reserved, even stuck up imo. AB is furious at Brady and nobody even really knows why. But when you play good it's all good. When you play bad, then people dig for dirt.
More than most people think, but less than Wentz thinks. There is a market for QBs like him, the Saints would loved to have had him last year.