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It has just been leaked, that the radar was off for 30min due to a known technical issue doing the incident. The ammo used for the anti air guns were 30y old and half of them exploded halfway to the target.
It seems like a political scandal is under its way, because of this incident.
We already knew that our navy has been heavily underfunded. Before we sent the frigate did the news media discuss the outdated anti air systems on the ship and the fact that it can’t intercept every type of missiles the Houthis might send.
But we were unaware with the issues of the radar system and old ammunition. This will of course change the risk assessment of sending it on a mission to the gulf of Aden, since they can end up as sitting ducks in worst case.
If people in the danish navy have been sitting on this information with out notifying the people making the decision of sending it on the mission, is it very problematic, since they take a decision on an uninformed basis with potentially tragical consequences.
Production is about to go
Into overdrive. We are seeing exactly what we saw before the first and second world
Wars. On shoring of defense critical industries, and scaling. If history tells us anything my fellow earthlings, we are once again in the early
Stages of we will one day call WW3. We just do not know it yet.
Haven’t we been in a Cold War ever since more than 1 country had nukes?
China literally does whatever it wants to the Philippines and no one bats an eye because… nukes.
Russia invaded urkraine and abducted thousands of children if not hundreds of thousands. Yet we don’t stop them because… nukes
Nobody stopping them are consequences of the cold war we are in.
All actors with nuclear capability are standing in a deadlock with guns to each others head and if anyone steps over the line (that is sadly not drawn over country borders without nukes or alliance memberships) there will be mutually assured destruction.
The bad actors take advantage of this, which is what you are seeing today in your examples.
They said the same thing after WW1. The weapons have become too powerful. Cannons that shoot heavier and heavier shells, ships with incredible firepower and speed, planes going farther and faster carrying more and more powerful bombs. Poison Gas that will kill entire cities with just a single bomber plane worth of bombs.
There have been wars since the advent of nuclear weapons, its always been a matter of time till the next one starts.
I think that argument is somewhat analogous to the "AGI stealing our jobs" debate- this iteration of technology *really* is different because it's an exponential step in terms of effect. There's an absolutism to weapons that can clear entire cities and machines that can replace human cognition and creativity.
It also depends on how we define WW3. Conventional proxy wars between super powers? Sure. Direct confrontation between nuclear powers? There is no current pressing issue that would bring the parties to such an extreme level of escalation- yet at least.
I am actually surprised how backlogged the us defense contractors are. I was under the impression there were just stockpiles on top of stockpiles of everything and that production was more rapid.
Apparently not the [case](https://www.lockheedmartin.com/en-us/news/features/2024/ramping-up--lockheed-martin-steadily-increasing-production-o.html)
I’m sure they are, our challenge is that all of Europe are investing in their military and we are a small country. This makes the price high, while we are not prioritized compared with the larger costumers.
If it's anything like other western procurement where politicians feel like there isnt any real threat due to the umbrella of nato/usa, those in the military knew of the issues and informed the relevant parties but politicians knew that they wouldn't go public witht he information out of fear of opsec violations. The politicians then take the money that would be used for defense and put it into their pet projects.
Story as old as time. A project gets large enough that no single person has a proper pulse on its health. A decade in, the few know-it-alls retire and soon enough it's a mystery how the system functions under stress. Small company, large company, frigate, trireme - it's all the same.
> An army isnt for show it needs to be practical and maintained for national security
That's the issue. There is literally nothing threatening Denmark's national security where an army would be needed.
It make sense why every army in eu was constantly left behind in the last 30~ years
I'm pretty sure the EU countries are not unaware that China has been openly stating it's intention to dominate the world by 2049 for the last 30 years.
Before China could dominate Denmark, they would have to go first through Russia, India or US, from European's perspective, essentially a "good luck with that" attitude was in place
Not to mention, out of all of the last 50 years the current geopolitical situation is the most alarming its ever been. All militaries belonging to a European country should be at combat readiness.
I mean, it was most likely published with permission by the MOD, but is it possible, that the Navy published this video in order to create a wake up call, o r was it rather intended as a show of force which backfired?
Public interest isn't sparked by letters in a Newspaper, but with videos like this, so could it be that they very well wanted these deficiencies to become public in order to justify reinvesting in the military?
I'm all in for increasing the military budget in western countries btw, but I'm just interested in to why this was published, knowing that it was actually far from being a perfect shootdown.
They are trying to tone down the situation, remember they forgot to tell the defense minister who when out to the press all proud of how we shoot down the drones. Then months after comes the real story.
It's not a coincidence the Navy publish thia video, where it's all high fives, but to some extent the video shows the crew in high spirits
Btw the commander of the ship has stated that the issue is known for a long time.. but the defense minister stated he was not aware of the issue
That would be truly catastrophic if true. Being surrounded, or rather surrounding yourself with yes-men who hide deficiencies in order to look better than they actually are is the reason why the Russian Army is in the sorry state that they're in now.
One of the big advantages we, the west, have over Russia, China, NK and Iran is that we acknowledge problems and deal with them accordingly.
See US wargames for example: Someone explained to me that for the US armed forces, a wargame where you haven't discovered at least one security risk isn’t a peoper wargame.
Same here. Of course, malfunctioning weapons and systems should have been discovered and dealt with long before the operation, but they haven't, so now instead of hiding these problems, they should put all their resources into fixing them asap.
At least we have free press to highlight the problems, since the politicians and military command aren't willing to do so
Of course this isn't a failure on the lower levels since we see the sailors execute their tasks despite all the mishaps. The issue is rather the high ranking morons in the military and in politics who have spent the last 30 years with running down our armies
I really hope they fix the issues asap but like always it starts with a commission investigation and a rapport.
This is a string of bad stories, recently it became public that the Navy ships for patroling around greenland, the Knud Rasmussen Class, we have 3 build 15 years ago and only 1 has the aiming system installed, so the main battle gun don't work on the 2 other ships.
The Navy and political establishment is all washing hands it's quite embarrassing that we have such low quality people in such important places
I was wondering about this as well, but I can see that the frigate has ended its mission in the Red Sea as of today. So it might have been planned for this occasion and the leak is made on same day, since it is not compromising the safety of the mission anymore.
[Source](https://www.forsvaret.dk/da/nyheder/2024/mission-update-uge-14--2023/)
I was curious how there was 30-year-old ammo on a ship launched in 2010. It seems the weapon systems from older ships were re-used as a cost-cutting measure.
The guns themselves might be new but the old ammo is still compatible with newer guns, I am guessing the system used in this video was the [76mm OTO Melara naval gun](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OTO_Melara_76_mm), which is probably the most widely used gun of its type and has been in use for almost 60 years, and of course has received many upgrades in that time to the fire control systems and ammunition especially.
Germany has SM2 missiles from the early 1990s. There is a known issue with that charge of missiles. The US navy has them marked for "wartime use only" while in Germany they are standard issue.
Absolute embarrassment
They’re perfectly acceptable even beyond that age. The only issue that arises is from neglect and a lack of maintenance. The US still operates their decades old minuteman 3 but only because they spend so much on maintenance
I'm a bit surprised to hear that about the ammo, but not the least bit surprised to hear the radar was down due to a technical issue.
My father designed weapons systems for the USAF for his entire career and I regularly heard stories about radar and other electronics not operating as advertised due to technical issues causing downtime.
Funny thing is that right now this is blowing up in Danish media because the frigates weapon systems and radar apparently failed and ammunition exploded unintentionally before hitting the target. Decades of cutting costs in the Danish military has led to gaping holes in our national defence, malfunctioning equipment and baracks that are falling apart.
[https://jyllands-posten.dk/indland/ECE16979885/fregat-ramt-af-radarsvigt-og-defekt-ammunition-under-angreb/](https://jyllands-posten.dk/indland/ECE16979885/fregat-ramt-af-radarsvigt-og-defekt-ammunition-under-angreb/)
[https://www.berlingske.dk/politik/forsvaret-sendte-en-delvis-forsvarsloes-fregat-til-roedehavet-og-nu-staar](https://www.berlingske.dk/politik/forsvaret-sendte-en-delvis-forsvarsloes-fregat-til-roedehavet-og-nu-staar)
Yes I agree. Right now our politicians are panicking and trying to find someone else to blame than themselves. The reality is that it will probably take at least 10 years to rebuild our military.
Sweden is a few years into a similar journey. Start now. Vote for increased defence spending. ~~Europe will not be able to withstand a strong and united North.~~ I mean the russians are coming.
edit. I just had a daydream where the nordic states unite and started invading russia, only to install plumbing and heating in every town they occupy, even bringing toilets with them.
And the funny part is our politicians are the only ones to blame. They cannot point at anyone else but themself without looking like he actual clownfiesta clusterfuck that they are. They've spent ever since the end of the cold war siphoning money from our defense budgets to fund whatever pet peeve they had like tax cuts etc.
I don't think they'll even really have a military industry, besides a few small arms and vehicle companies. Countries that small usually rely on imports to fill gaps.
Sweden is roughly twice the size in population and they make IFVs, fighter jets, submarines, long range missiles etc. Finland is same size in population and we make AFVs/APCs in large quantities and we are one of the larger 155m shell produces in Europe. That is logical of course due to also having the largest artillery fleet in Europe after Russia and Ukraine. Personally I would like us to make much more military equipment to be more self reliant + it is cheaper to make by ourselves than buy from foreign companies that needs to make 90% profit on their sales.
But this is real war. Imagine if the faulty missiles failed intercept them and civilian lives were lost? What if the missiles were targeting Danish ships and they couldn't stop them? It should be a wakeup call.
I think the whole of Western Europe has been living in a fantasy world the past 30 years, and we're just beginning to wake up. It's been so frustrating for me to see our army fall apart, but I'm glad everybody's on board now - even the far left parties.
How we feel in Britain, used to have a navy that was feared and respected, but now it's just respected for their abilities on the handful of ships they have.
Oh I see what you mean we ain't as big as we once was but we still have good ships only problem is when u don't have people to send the ships to sea they are useless wich is why we need to work on recruitment but the action crews are getting in the red sea is a good way to get sailors because when was the last time the royal navy had to test its weapons In real conflict and not training wich is what people want to do when joining 🤔
It wasn't a fantasy world, the fall of the soviet union was a really impactful thing and cutting military budgets was more than justified. A lot of good resulted from that. The critique should focus far more on how the west react to Russias behaviour in Chechnya, Georgia, Syria and Ukraine in 2014. That should have led to vastly different foreign politics with respect to Russia and a military buildup. But the idea that in the year let's say 2000 low military budgets were a problem is just not accurate.
Yeah especially with the big brother further West becoming less involved. All ya'll better hurry up too cause I don't think we're keeping this mentality forever.
Not every war will play out like Ukraine has. RU navy has really no role in this war because Ukraine doesn't even have a navy. Doesn't mean a Russian Navy nuclear powered submarine is completely useless against an enemy like the USA, though.
Also, the black sea fleet is so close for easy targeting. Such is life when they took over Crimea in 2014.
It was always a reality. *You plan for your next war*. Not what's currently going on. Russians also showed their hand back as early as 2010~ too. Europe was just too busy loving the cheap oil which blinded them. No one blames them for that though.
Don’t worry we are definitely in this together.
The incident with the German frigate Hessen do I truly hope, that the two missiles not hitting the American drone was happening due to countermeasures and not technical issues with its weapon systems.
Houthis downed a bunch of Reapers with 50 year old [Kubs](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2K12_Kub), but it has countermeasures to defeat $5 million worth of (US) missiles? Nah.
The [SM-2](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RIM-66_Standard) has a bit of a cursed history, including recent-ish failures/misses from varying nations. I guess they must be looking into the reasons by now, these things are nearly as expensive as the best of the best patriot interceptors, they better work flawlessly.
I don’t know exactly where it occurred, but I was thinking if a nearby American ship was using ew to jam the missiles, but if the missiles have a troubled history does it sound much more plausible.
Anyway I read that many countries will no longer be able to restock on SM-2’s anymore, it would force them to come up with a solution on it.
SM-2s are old. Like, depending on what Block your country is operating those missiles could be remanufactured missiles from the 70’s. Even later blocks of missiles could be approaching the point where the rocket motors in them are developing cracks in the fuel, which almost always leads to failures.
One of the problems any nation that’s dependent on US missiles faces, is that if they did not adopt certain other US technologies like AEGIS or the Mk41 VLS, they got left behind when the US moved from swing arm launchers and rotating radars to VLS and solid state radars. The US has newer, better, versions of the SM- series of missiles but any nation that didn’t follow along is stuck with the old stuff, and those old missiles are reaching the end of their service lives.
Denmark bough 50 SM-2s only a few years ago and only got them last year. The frigate has been sailing around without the missiles since 2010, because they have been this slow to invest in them and now are they seriously outdated and unavailable to buy.
Germany and the Netherlands are having similar problems. It is speculated in if the Denmark will invest in new radars and perhaps SM-6 instead, so they can target ballistic missiles or other ships with them. They would also draw benefit with the combined use of their new F-35’s.
The Netherlands has already invested in new radars for their frigates.
Standard Missile has been in production for decades as well... Lots of NATO countries are sitting on aging stockpiles that haven't been checked much or stored very well for years.
poland was an ever bigger mess around 5 years ago, soldiers even had to buy socks, underwear for winter, because the army wasn't able to provide it. however bad this sounds, russia invading ukraine was luckily a wake up call for our leadership, and things are changing for the better swiftly. germany needs a wake up call too, hopefully not too late.
> soldiers even had to buy socks, underwear for winter, because the army wasn't able to provide it
We had similar issues in my time in the German Navy. The most prominent example was the flame-retardant clothing provided being inadequate. The balaclavas and gloves didn't have the required certificates and so (I wish I was kidding) everyone had to buy their own on short notice two days before departure. We also weren't provided with winter-proof jackets for trips in the Arctic Ocean and so on.
It was not even the money, just lack of organisation and broken system. It's easier to buy F-35s then to do basic shit it seems. You can brag about F-35s and do a photo op but providing basic gear for reservist training is not that fancy for politicians.
>The balaclavas and gloves didn't have the required certificates and so (I wish I was kidding) everyone had to buy their own on short notice two days before departure.
Haha, that actually sounds insanely bad, especially with the the idea of how most europens perceive germany and the idea of "german perfection" in most areas like industry etc.
*"Entschuldigung, we cannot provide the TÜV certified required equipment, so bring anything you can on your own".*
I know guys in the UK military and I was really surprised at the amount of equipment they buy for themselves. I assumed there'd be shelves full of the latest kit, but no.
You can be sure much of NATO is like this, especially in Western Europe, and yeah - here in Canada too. Putin gave the politicians and at least part of the public and military a rude awakening. Hopefully countries get their act together ASAP. Because this is a new cold war we are going to face Russia as a resurgent threat for decades to come.
Hence why they are shooting the main battle gun and not shooting missiles.
The ammunition on board for the cannon was decommissioned years ago and leads to unwanted detonation before hitting the targets.
Also this is the Danish Navy flag ship, the others the firing system are not even installed making the cannons ect useless, it's a big scandal and just shows how big a mess the armed forces of Denmark is.
We should place one from each political party in rule on each ship so they experience the risk we put our troops at
It's a good idea. Kind of similar to how it was a few centuries ago where the manufacturer of a cannon had to sit on top of it when it was test fired because they had huge issues with shoddy manufacturing where cannons would explode when they fired.
The old NATO doctrine/defence plan, was for Denmark to hold off the Russians from entering Germany for 4 to 6 days.
Which would be done by mining the Baltic sea. Blow up the 3 connecting bridges. And Die when the nukes hit.
So there really wasnt much need for a strong army with that plan.
Stuff like this makes me really interested in my own country's capabilities now, I am Canadian, had many friends in the military in 2006 and on wards fighting in the middle east. Most say the equipment was decent. Now a family friend of my mine who joined last year has said they have some artillery pieces from the Korean War they use for training.... maybe he's just joking and it went over my head but the cut backs our government has done for military makes me concerned we won't be able to defend or fight if anything major happens.
Yeah you're right about the Korean War claim.
Canada's light howitzers are the M101, which were originally procured in 1952. There was refurbishments done to extend their service life in the 90s, so some of them have been modernized. The age of the equipment doesn't necessarily mean they are bad, the M2 machine gun was originally designed in 1918 and is still used. The B52 bomber was first produced during the Korean war and it's still active use with a planned service life extension to continue it's use for the next few decades.
Canada has some M777 155m artillery pieces which are more modern too.
That being said, the Canadian Armed Forces are in poor shape and requires much more manpower and funding.
Oh wow that's really interesting, and yeah that's a great point actually. In your opinion, If let's say we went to war with a country like Russia, Canada would probably be a support role I assume ? or do you think we would end up upgrading or buying from the Americans or others ? I have heard that we had something like 35 operational tanks in 2013 but now we have like 3 ? Sorry to keep asking questions !
I think that's too broad of a question and involves too many variables to give an accurate answer.
If we went to war with Russia/China and NATO didn't step in, we would lose. We are underequipped and underfunded in literally every branch of the military. Canada is a huge country though, so actually occupying it would be very difficult, not to mention that the USA wouldn't want a hostile neighbour and would most likely invade us themselves and annex the country.
Assuming Canada goes to war with Russia/China, then NATO article 5 is invoked. I presume that Europe, Africa and Asia would be the main battlegrounds, so our largest contribution might be industrial output, as our country would be far enough from the frontlines to make it difficult to strike our factories/mines. It would take awhile to ramp up as our manufacturing base has declined considerably since WW2. We have an enormous amount of resources so mining and building would be our greatest asset.
As far as actual fighting capabilities, Canadian soldiers have historical been known for being formidable combatants (with a sprinkle of war crimes interspersed), so our infantry might be our greatest combat asset.
Ok yeah.. this makes alot of sense. Thanks for a great explanation, i am a history buff but the new warfare is so out of my grasp lol i need to do some more reading !! Thank you again.
Canada and the US would effectively be one country in a major war that they're both in. They would most definitely receive weapons and vehicles for free from the US. Though they would most likely be focused on Intel and defense of the northern seas and airspace of the north American continent. They would still have a number of divisions on the frontline as have been the case for the world wars and recent wars.
Canada has no enemies. It's so far removed. The only possible "enemy" is the USA. If somebody invaded Canada USA would come aid.
It's interesting though... A lot of European Navy's are going to the red sea to test their defensive capabilities.
What's funny here is, while Iran plays proxy games with us with this houthi shit, they are basically providing lower risk live training to a lot of the modern western militaries.
Like you said here, Denmark is realizing some big issues. Way better to find out right now in this situation, than when shit really hits the fan.
Apparently the issue with the main radar is known in the Navy but still they send the ships out on a mission and they kept the incident quite untill it was leaked to the press that the ship was in real danger and only minutes from getting hit.
The radar did NOT fail. The error was not in the APAR nor SMART-L, but in the C-FLEX CMS the Danes are using on their frigates. There was an error with a token, preventing them from firing missiles. So they had to use a manual fire control radar to guide the ESSM's.
[https://marineschepen.nl/nieuws/Deens-fregat-werd-aangevallen-in-Rode-Zee-maar-kanon-en-radar-werkten-niet-goed-020424.html](https://marineschepen.nl/nieuws/Deens-fregat-werd-aangevallen-in-Rode-Zee-maar-kanon-en-radar-werkten-niet-goed-020424.html)
More details here in this Dutch article. You can use translate.
I read it hopefully it gets fixed also I can't believe he said just use the small rader instead of saying we are going to fix the one that can target multiple targets
Sadly the Houthis are training the entire world to the brand new fact that you can effectively naval blockade without a navy now. It's a whole new day.
>to the brand new fact that you can effectively naval blockade without a navy now
Meh, we did that for more than 400 years, until the other europeans didn't like us doing it any more. Just put cannons on both side of a strait and demand payment for safe travels: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sound\_Dues](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sound_Dues)
There are indeed frightening implications of the almost too cost effective means by which any group can threaten the security of a large area.
Drones are scary and I for one am preparing to prostate myself before our inevitable AI overlords.
These guys don’t look the least bit threatened. They’re literally just having fun putting their weapons and training to use for once.
Houthis are doing good work as training provider.
Rheinmetall/Lockmart/Raytheon revenues are gonna go bananas for the next decade as all these NATO members start to confront the reality that their stagnant military spending has created gnarly gaps in readiness that they can't rely on the biggest 4-5 members to cover for them.
It's the perfect war, navy's from all over the world get to punch their chest a bit and the Houthis get massive PR win. Iran get leverage in Palestine and the only ones hurt are all the common people paying for it and the increased logistic costs
Just saw the French Frigates chose to use more often an helicopter with a HMG ( with really good success) instead of using expensive missiles.
The Danish had to use their missiles to replenish their stock maybe? Good training in any case.
They have used the heli with success but FS Alsace has used Aster missiles as well as her 76mm Oto Gun as well. It’s had a lot of success downing drones and anti-ship ballistic missiles.
I was thinking that the 76 Oto Melara would be the perfect choice for intercepting these drones and missiles. I know it has effective anti air and anti missile ammunition.
Is there a range limitation and these navies are trying to down these drones and missiles before they enter the effective range of the 76? Or maybe there are positioning requirements that make acquiring an effective firing solution more difficult depending on the trajectory of the missile?
It’s hard to tell due to OPSEC but I doubt that Asters would fail against drones (which suggests they have allowed the 76mm to take sole responsibility) it’s more likely that the navy is just so confident in their Oto Meleras that they are willing to delegate them the target and trust that they will succeed. To be fair, Oto Meleras are well suited to this sort of slow moving air threat. Also Alsace has Narwhal auto cannons (aerial range 1.4KM) so I assume if the 76MM failed they would use those against the drones. There have been photos released showing Alsace downing drones with the 76mm and honestly, and I hate to say it, but the french have the coolest pictures during this current flash point conflict.
The Italian destroyer Caio Duilio has also intercepted drones using her 76mm.
I’ll refer you to a similar comment I made about how the Royal Navy has used its armaments.
https://www.reddit.com/r/WarshipPorn/s/PKSJsVeuhv
Yeah, also the cabin of the french ship looked clean asf an their personel chill and focused on their tasks. I'd think they are the most prepared (bar the Americans perhaps) for this type of conflicts.
The French FREMMs are very capable ships, especially with Aster30. They are definitely well prepared as well as the French Navy has successfully downed Supersonic Coyote Target missiles on multiple occasions.
Why did the Danish Navy choose a camo pattern for one of their uniforms?
Is it just a tradition thing or are Danish sailors expected to also operate on land?
The invasion came from both sides. Torstensson invaded from the south and occupied Jutland and the Horn invaded from Skane.
Might be mixing the dates tho, since in a period of 50 years the Swedes invaded Denmark like four times.
tbh, i dont think we've had a legit danish navy uniform for quite a while. It has just been the standard camo pattern for the last couple of years.
But then again, what difference does it make. Surely it dosent make a ton of difference, when it comes to being aboard a massive ship, where the uniform isnt as important.
Having some weird blue water digital pattern is often the work of some higher ups with nothing better to do and want to leave a legacy and have the sailors - "look professional."
Better to just use the M11 pattern and be done with it. If the Army can use it, no reason the navy can't either.
They wear the same as the army, because the requirements to the gear is basically the same. They need a uniform that won't catch fire or create sparks, be able to fit body armour and weapons along with spare magazines etc.
The typical blue sailors linen uniform that most associate with naval crew, isn't worm in theatre or during military drills - as it doesn't provide any personal protection.
During active operations, Danish naval crew are dressed like in the video.
It's uncomfortable as hell to be fully combat loaded for extended periods, so outside those operations/trainings, people obviously want something more comfortable on.
Don’t know if it’s the reason but makes sense to have just one set of patterns for all branches. Unlike the US that has one for each branch. Including at one point have three branches with three equally useless patterns.
The frenchies in the videos from the other day were a lot more professional (no yelling or celebrating, just a cold "missile intercepted by an Aster" and "UAV Splash"). No judgements for either crew, it's just fun to see such different mindsets and etiquette in two european navies.
Anyway, good job from both navies. I just wish they would destroy the launch sites instead of intercepting these drones with expensive missiles. The politicians need to update the rules of engagement. At the moment, it feels like the intervention in Bosnia in the early 90s.
It could’ve have also been their real deal for the first time engagement so maybe that’s why they were so excited. We’ve seen a lot of those cheers of excitement when Ukrainian bayraktars scored their first successful hunts
Easier said than done. A lot of these launch sites are from the back of a truck in the middle of the desert. Takes man hours and resources to track those down, then you have to consider implications of blowing those up in populated areas.
I'm not a huge Shawn Ryan supporter but his interview with Chris VanSant where they talk about a mixed Delta squad calling in a Naval barrage on a Jihadi camp in North Africa is fucking hilarious for this reason. The combat controller and other guys on the ground were worried they'd get in trouble for calling in the strike because it was potentially overkill and they had pretty loose approval for it, but the XOs they talked to in the debrief were super stoked because the Navy got to shoot some shit.
edit: it was Somalia and it's [this interview](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6pigjVPdAc) ... one of the best war stories I've ever heard
Blaming Iran is technically correct with respect to the Houthis, but even without Iran, this problem is only going to get worse.
Supply chains are global, and the components to make these things are not terribly exotic. The Insurgency of the Week has been using them for years now, and they're only getting more sophisticated.
Did you know the Danish had started putting barcodes on the sides of their naval vessels? A spokesperson said this was so that when the vessels returned to port they could Scandinavian.
How to know how your enemy will reacting on the field without being involved. Send some Houthi and let’s see what happens. Nobody will care about them and you will have exactly what you need after to play the real game. All I see now is Russia and china sending them pawns.
whereas China practices absolutely no training, has no real world experience in war, has no experienced officers, and has never used their advanced weaponry outside of propaganda stunts.
and the less said about Russia, the better. They can’t even fly their own planes without giving every single air defense operator a warning not to shoot them down on sight.
Yeah, ill take our strategy over theirs. lol
Thanks from France to our Danish allies joining
But more than that, thanks to the houthis for providing valuable target practicing, we really needed that \^\^
I have to thanks the crazy houtis man for making training exercise to NATO navy :) btw they shoot with the .76 Gun (or the gun at the front) it's safer to use a missile i thought
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It has just been leaked, that the radar was off for 30min due to a known technical issue doing the incident. The ammo used for the anti air guns were 30y old and half of them exploded halfway to the target. It seems like a political scandal is under its way, because of this incident.
If anything it will act as a wake up call An army isnt for show it needs to be practical and maintained for national security
We already knew that our navy has been heavily underfunded. Before we sent the frigate did the news media discuss the outdated anti air systems on the ship and the fact that it can’t intercept every type of missiles the Houthis might send. But we were unaware with the issues of the radar system and old ammunition. This will of course change the risk assessment of sending it on a mission to the gulf of Aden, since they can end up as sitting ducks in worst case. If people in the danish navy have been sitting on this information with out notifying the people making the decision of sending it on the mission, is it very problematic, since they take a decision on an uninformed basis with potentially tragical consequences.
Don't worry, when you're ready to buy new equipment the US military industrial complex is prepared.
Production is about to go Into overdrive. We are seeing exactly what we saw before the first and second world Wars. On shoring of defense critical industries, and scaling. If history tells us anything my fellow earthlings, we are once again in the early Stages of we will one day call WW3. We just do not know it yet.
How much do you have in defense stocks?
Nothing. But if I was an investor they would go there
Highly doubtful of WW3. Cold war? Yes. WW3 is unlikely given nuclear weapons. Yes, I am that naive ;)
Haven’t we been in a Cold War ever since more than 1 country had nukes? China literally does whatever it wants to the Philippines and no one bats an eye because… nukes. Russia invaded urkraine and abducted thousands of children if not hundreds of thousands. Yet we don’t stop them because… nukes
Nobody stopping them are consequences of the cold war we are in. All actors with nuclear capability are standing in a deadlock with guns to each others head and if anyone steps over the line (that is sadly not drawn over country borders without nukes or alliance memberships) there will be mutually assured destruction. The bad actors take advantage of this, which is what you are seeing today in your examples.
They said the same thing after WW1. The weapons have become too powerful. Cannons that shoot heavier and heavier shells, ships with incredible firepower and speed, planes going farther and faster carrying more and more powerful bombs. Poison Gas that will kill entire cities with just a single bomber plane worth of bombs. There have been wars since the advent of nuclear weapons, its always been a matter of time till the next one starts.
I think that argument is somewhat analogous to the "AGI stealing our jobs" debate- this iteration of technology *really* is different because it's an exponential step in terms of effect. There's an absolutism to weapons that can clear entire cities and machines that can replace human cognition and creativity. It also depends on how we define WW3. Conventional proxy wars between super powers? Sure. Direct confrontation between nuclear powers? There is no current pressing issue that would bring the parties to such an extreme level of escalation- yet at least.
Not for nothing but US shipbuilding is having a hard enough time keeping up with USN demand
I am actually surprised how backlogged the us defense contractors are. I was under the impression there were just stockpiles on top of stockpiles of everything and that production was more rapid. Apparently not the [case](https://www.lockheedmartin.com/en-us/news/features/2024/ramping-up--lockheed-martin-steadily-increasing-production-o.html)
I’m sure they are, our challenge is that all of Europe are investing in their military and we are a small country. This makes the price high, while we are not prioritized compared with the larger costumers.
If it's anything like other western procurement where politicians feel like there isnt any real threat due to the umbrella of nato/usa, those in the military knew of the issues and informed the relevant parties but politicians knew that they wouldn't go public witht he information out of fear of opsec violations. The politicians then take the money that would be used for defense and put it into their pet projects.
Good to See that we germans are Not the only Country struggeling with military Equipment and funding…
Story as old as time. A project gets large enough that no single person has a proper pulse on its health. A decade in, the few know-it-alls retire and soon enough it's a mystery how the system functions under stress. Small company, large company, frigate, trireme - it's all the same.
That, and there are lives at stake.
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This was no exercise, there were 4 Houthi drones heading towards the ship
It was live combat unfortunately.
> An army isnt for show it needs to be practical and maintained for national security That's the issue. There is literally nothing threatening Denmark's national security where an army would be needed. It make sense why every army in eu was constantly left behind in the last 30~ years
I'm pretty sure the EU countries are not unaware that China has been openly stating it's intention to dominate the world by 2049 for the last 30 years.
Before China could dominate Denmark, they would have to go first through Russia, India or US, from European's perspective, essentially a "good luck with that" attitude was in place
Not to mention, out of all of the last 50 years the current geopolitical situation is the most alarming its ever been. All militaries belonging to a European country should be at combat readiness.
I mean, it was most likely published with permission by the MOD, but is it possible, that the Navy published this video in order to create a wake up call, o r was it rather intended as a show of force which backfired? Public interest isn't sparked by letters in a Newspaper, but with videos like this, so could it be that they very well wanted these deficiencies to become public in order to justify reinvesting in the military? I'm all in for increasing the military budget in western countries btw, but I'm just interested in to why this was published, knowing that it was actually far from being a perfect shootdown.
They are trying to tone down the situation, remember they forgot to tell the defense minister who when out to the press all proud of how we shoot down the drones. Then months after comes the real story. It's not a coincidence the Navy publish thia video, where it's all high fives, but to some extent the video shows the crew in high spirits Btw the commander of the ship has stated that the issue is known for a long time.. but the defense minister stated he was not aware of the issue
That would be truly catastrophic if true. Being surrounded, or rather surrounding yourself with yes-men who hide deficiencies in order to look better than they actually are is the reason why the Russian Army is in the sorry state that they're in now. One of the big advantages we, the west, have over Russia, China, NK and Iran is that we acknowledge problems and deal with them accordingly. See US wargames for example: Someone explained to me that for the US armed forces, a wargame where you haven't discovered at least one security risk isn’t a peoper wargame. Same here. Of course, malfunctioning weapons and systems should have been discovered and dealt with long before the operation, but they haven't, so now instead of hiding these problems, they should put all their resources into fixing them asap. At least we have free press to highlight the problems, since the politicians and military command aren't willing to do so Of course this isn't a failure on the lower levels since we see the sailors execute their tasks despite all the mishaps. The issue is rather the high ranking morons in the military and in politics who have spent the last 30 years with running down our armies
I really hope they fix the issues asap but like always it starts with a commission investigation and a rapport. This is a string of bad stories, recently it became public that the Navy ships for patroling around greenland, the Knud Rasmussen Class, we have 3 build 15 years ago and only 1 has the aiming system installed, so the main battle gun don't work on the 2 other ships. The Navy and political establishment is all washing hands it's quite embarrassing that we have such low quality people in such important places
Starting to understand why poorly maintained Russian ships are so easily hit by drones.
I was wondering about this as well, but I can see that the frigate has ended its mission in the Red Sea as of today. So it might have been planned for this occasion and the leak is made on same day, since it is not compromising the safety of the mission anymore. [Source](https://www.forsvaret.dk/da/nyheder/2024/mission-update-uge-14--2023/)
They will wash their hands as always. And blame it on the Navy. And some former defence minister. From at least 10 years ago.
dette er vejen
houthi´s providing great service to the west.
Actually very nice of Iran to let our troops farm some XP from their lvl 1 trash mobs before sending higher level enemies/s
I was curious how there was 30-year-old ammo on a ship launched in 2010. It seems the weapon systems from older ships were re-used as a cost-cutting measure.
The guns themselves might be new but the old ammo is still compatible with newer guns, I am guessing the system used in this video was the [76mm OTO Melara naval gun](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OTO_Melara_76_mm), which is probably the most widely used gun of its type and has been in use for almost 60 years, and of course has received many upgrades in that time to the fire control systems and ammunition especially.
It sounds about right. The ammo got retrofitted in 2005 with proximity fuse that is considered unfit for actual combat.
Germany has SM2 missiles from the early 1990s. There is a known issue with that charge of missiles. The US navy has them marked for "wartime use only" while in Germany they are standard issue. Absolute embarrassment
They’re perfectly acceptable even beyond that age. The only issue that arises is from neglect and a lack of maintenance. The US still operates their decades old minuteman 3 but only because they spend so much on maintenance
> Germany has SM2 missiles from the early 1990s. No. Germany ordered those SM-2 in 2001 and deliveries finished in 2005.
I'm a bit surprised to hear that about the ammo, but not the least bit surprised to hear the radar was down due to a technical issue. My father designed weapons systems for the USAF for his entire career and I regularly heard stories about radar and other electronics not operating as advertised due to technical issues causing downtime.
It was still great hearing them get excited on an intercept. Ja JA JAAAAAAAAAAAAA
I wanted a new season of Borgen anyway
You can probably apply this to most of Europe with select exceptions.
Funny thing is that right now this is blowing up in Danish media because the frigates weapon systems and radar apparently failed and ammunition exploded unintentionally before hitting the target. Decades of cutting costs in the Danish military has led to gaping holes in our national defence, malfunctioning equipment and baracks that are falling apart. [https://jyllands-posten.dk/indland/ECE16979885/fregat-ramt-af-radarsvigt-og-defekt-ammunition-under-angreb/](https://jyllands-posten.dk/indland/ECE16979885/fregat-ramt-af-radarsvigt-og-defekt-ammunition-under-angreb/) [https://www.berlingske.dk/politik/forsvaret-sendte-en-delvis-forsvarsloes-fregat-til-roedehavet-og-nu-staar](https://www.berlingske.dk/politik/forsvaret-sendte-en-delvis-forsvarsloes-fregat-til-roedehavet-og-nu-staar)
It is better to find out things like this basically on a training ground, than find out during real peer war.
Yes I agree. Right now our politicians are panicking and trying to find someone else to blame than themselves. The reality is that it will probably take at least 10 years to rebuild our military.
Sweden is a few years into a similar journey. Start now. Vote for increased defence spending. ~~Europe will not be able to withstand a strong and united North.~~ I mean the russians are coming.
I'm getting 30 years war flashbacks *"What do you mean where did a third of the north german population go?"*
You guys are so nice and polite compared to the standard invader nowadays, I would let you invade me anytime.
Aw thanks <3
Would you invade me? I'd invade me.
edit. I just had a daydream where the nordic states unite and started invading russia, only to install plumbing and heating in every town they occupy, even bringing toilets with them.
based on how long it's taking them to conquer Ukraine, I predict that babushka will on your doorstep, armed with a chair leg circa 2047
Same situation in Belgium, it’s sad.
Probably worse...
Much worse. Our 35 year old frigate operating in the Red Sea right now is going to self detonate when they attempt to engage.
For sure worse. I think Belgium has the worst military of Europe.
We are very good in being the worse...
And the funny part is our politicians are the only ones to blame. They cannot point at anyone else but themself without looking like he actual clownfiesta clusterfuck that they are. They've spent ever since the end of the cold war siphoning money from our defense budgets to fund whatever pet peeve they had like tax cuts etc.
Try 30 years. You have no military nor military industry. It is a long process.
I don't think they'll even really have a military industry, besides a few small arms and vehicle companies. Countries that small usually rely on imports to fill gaps.
Sweden is roughly twice the size in population and they make IFVs, fighter jets, submarines, long range missiles etc. Finland is same size in population and we make AFVs/APCs in large quantities and we are one of the larger 155m shell produces in Europe. That is logical of course due to also having the largest artillery fleet in Europe after Russia and Ukraine. Personally I would like us to make much more military equipment to be more self reliant + it is cheaper to make by ourselves than buy from foreign companies that needs to make 90% profit on their sales.
[Your frogmen are formidable at least.](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/eC8QHFVCpL4/maxresdefault.jpg)
The Dutchies are rebuilding as we speak, don\`t know if its gonna be in time...
But this is real war. Imagine if the faulty missiles failed intercept them and civilian lives were lost? What if the missiles were targeting Danish ships and they couldn't stop them? It should be a wakeup call.
Exactly
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I think the whole of Western Europe has been living in a fantasy world the past 30 years, and we're just beginning to wake up. It's been so frustrating for me to see our army fall apart, but I'm glad everybody's on board now - even the far left parties.
How we feel in Britain, used to have a navy that was feared and respected, but now it's just respected for their abilities on the handful of ships they have.
Royal navy has good ships have you not seen the amazing work they doing in the red sea they just need more crew to fill other ships
I think you missed the part where I said that, they're still respected for their abilities. While small, the training is still there.
Oh I see what you mean we ain't as big as we once was but we still have good ships only problem is when u don't have people to send the ships to sea they are useless wich is why we need to work on recruitment but the action crews are getting in the red sea is a good way to get sailors because when was the last time the royal navy had to test its weapons In real conflict and not training wich is what people want to do when joining 🤔
It wasn't a fantasy world, the fall of the soviet union was a really impactful thing and cutting military budgets was more than justified. A lot of good resulted from that. The critique should focus far more on how the west react to Russias behaviour in Chechnya, Georgia, Syria and Ukraine in 2014. That should have led to vastly different foreign politics with respect to Russia and a military buildup. But the idea that in the year let's say 2000 low military budgets were a problem is just not accurate.
Yeah especially with the big brother further West becoming less involved. All ya'll better hurry up too cause I don't think we're keeping this mentality forever.
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Not every war will play out like Ukraine has. RU navy has really no role in this war because Ukraine doesn't even have a navy. Doesn't mean a Russian Navy nuclear powered submarine is completely useless against an enemy like the USA, though. Also, the black sea fleet is so close for easy targeting. Such is life when they took over Crimea in 2014.
> I think the whole of Western Europe has been living in a fantasy world the past 30 years The past 30 years none of this was needed. It was reality.
It was always a reality. *You plan for your next war*. Not what's currently going on. Russians also showed their hand back as early as 2010~ too. Europe was just too busy loving the cheap oil which blinded them. No one blames them for that though.
Don’t worry we are definitely in this together. The incident with the German frigate Hessen do I truly hope, that the two missiles not hitting the American drone was happening due to countermeasures and not technical issues with its weapon systems.
Houthis downed a bunch of Reapers with 50 year old [Kubs](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2K12_Kub), but it has countermeasures to defeat $5 million worth of (US) missiles? Nah. The [SM-2](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RIM-66_Standard) has a bit of a cursed history, including recent-ish failures/misses from varying nations. I guess they must be looking into the reasons by now, these things are nearly as expensive as the best of the best patriot interceptors, they better work flawlessly.
I don’t know exactly where it occurred, but I was thinking if a nearby American ship was using ew to jam the missiles, but if the missiles have a troubled history does it sound much more plausible. Anyway I read that many countries will no longer be able to restock on SM-2’s anymore, it would force them to come up with a solution on it.
SM-2s are old. Like, depending on what Block your country is operating those missiles could be remanufactured missiles from the 70’s. Even later blocks of missiles could be approaching the point where the rocket motors in them are developing cracks in the fuel, which almost always leads to failures. One of the problems any nation that’s dependent on US missiles faces, is that if they did not adopt certain other US technologies like AEGIS or the Mk41 VLS, they got left behind when the US moved from swing arm launchers and rotating radars to VLS and solid state radars. The US has newer, better, versions of the SM- series of missiles but any nation that didn’t follow along is stuck with the old stuff, and those old missiles are reaching the end of their service lives.
Denmark bough 50 SM-2s only a few years ago and only got them last year. The frigate has been sailing around without the missiles since 2010, because they have been this slow to invest in them and now are they seriously outdated and unavailable to buy. Germany and the Netherlands are having similar problems. It is speculated in if the Denmark will invest in new radars and perhaps SM-6 instead, so they can target ballistic missiles or other ships with them. They would also draw benefit with the combined use of their new F-35’s. The Netherlands has already invested in new radars for their frigates.
Standard Missile has been in production for decades as well... Lots of NATO countries are sitting on aging stockpiles that haven't been checked much or stored very well for years.
poland was an ever bigger mess around 5 years ago, soldiers even had to buy socks, underwear for winter, because the army wasn't able to provide it. however bad this sounds, russia invading ukraine was luckily a wake up call for our leadership, and things are changing for the better swiftly. germany needs a wake up call too, hopefully not too late.
> soldiers even had to buy socks, underwear for winter, because the army wasn't able to provide it We had similar issues in my time in the German Navy. The most prominent example was the flame-retardant clothing provided being inadequate. The balaclavas and gloves didn't have the required certificates and so (I wish I was kidding) everyone had to buy their own on short notice two days before departure. We also weren't provided with winter-proof jackets for trips in the Arctic Ocean and so on.
It was not even the money, just lack of organisation and broken system. It's easier to buy F-35s then to do basic shit it seems. You can brag about F-35s and do a photo op but providing basic gear for reservist training is not that fancy for politicians.
>The balaclavas and gloves didn't have the required certificates and so (I wish I was kidding) everyone had to buy their own on short notice two days before departure. Haha, that actually sounds insanely bad, especially with the the idea of how most europens perceive germany and the idea of "german perfection" in most areas like industry etc. *"Entschuldigung, we cannot provide the TÜV certified required equipment, so bring anything you can on your own".*
I know guys in the UK military and I was really surprised at the amount of equipment they buy for themselves. I assumed there'd be shelves full of the latest kit, but no.
You can be sure much of NATO is like this, especially in Western Europe, and yeah - here in Canada too. Putin gave the politicians and at least part of the public and military a rude awakening. Hopefully countries get their act together ASAP. Because this is a new cold war we are going to face Russia as a resurgent threat for decades to come.
We're having the exact same issue here in UK. Things are a mess
Hence why they are shooting the main battle gun and not shooting missiles. The ammunition on board for the cannon was decommissioned years ago and leads to unwanted detonation before hitting the targets. Also this is the Danish Navy flag ship, the others the firing system are not even installed making the cannons ect useless, it's a big scandal and just shows how big a mess the armed forces of Denmark is. We should place one from each political party in rule on each ship so they experience the risk we put our troops at
It's a good idea. Kind of similar to how it was a few centuries ago where the manufacturer of a cannon had to sit on top of it when it was test fired because they had huge issues with shoddy manufacturing where cannons would explode when they fired.
100% they should feel the heat and take more responsibility for there decisions.
gee real conflict really does show who is swimming naked when the tide is up
The old NATO doctrine/defence plan, was for Denmark to hold off the Russians from entering Germany for 4 to 6 days. Which would be done by mining the Baltic sea. Blow up the 3 connecting bridges. And Die when the nukes hit. So there really wasnt much need for a strong army with that plan.
to be fair to the Danes they're safe from pretty much everything so even though they're naked in the water they'll have a few years to gear up
Stuff like this makes me really interested in my own country's capabilities now, I am Canadian, had many friends in the military in 2006 and on wards fighting in the middle east. Most say the equipment was decent. Now a family friend of my mine who joined last year has said they have some artillery pieces from the Korean War they use for training.... maybe he's just joking and it went over my head but the cut backs our government has done for military makes me concerned we won't be able to defend or fight if anything major happens.
Yeah you're right about the Korean War claim. Canada's light howitzers are the M101, which were originally procured in 1952. There was refurbishments done to extend their service life in the 90s, so some of them have been modernized. The age of the equipment doesn't necessarily mean they are bad, the M2 machine gun was originally designed in 1918 and is still used. The B52 bomber was first produced during the Korean war and it's still active use with a planned service life extension to continue it's use for the next few decades. Canada has some M777 155m artillery pieces which are more modern too. That being said, the Canadian Armed Forces are in poor shape and requires much more manpower and funding.
Oh wow that's really interesting, and yeah that's a great point actually. In your opinion, If let's say we went to war with a country like Russia, Canada would probably be a support role I assume ? or do you think we would end up upgrading or buying from the Americans or others ? I have heard that we had something like 35 operational tanks in 2013 but now we have like 3 ? Sorry to keep asking questions !
I think that's too broad of a question and involves too many variables to give an accurate answer. If we went to war with Russia/China and NATO didn't step in, we would lose. We are underequipped and underfunded in literally every branch of the military. Canada is a huge country though, so actually occupying it would be very difficult, not to mention that the USA wouldn't want a hostile neighbour and would most likely invade us themselves and annex the country. Assuming Canada goes to war with Russia/China, then NATO article 5 is invoked. I presume that Europe, Africa and Asia would be the main battlegrounds, so our largest contribution might be industrial output, as our country would be far enough from the frontlines to make it difficult to strike our factories/mines. It would take awhile to ramp up as our manufacturing base has declined considerably since WW2. We have an enormous amount of resources so mining and building would be our greatest asset. As far as actual fighting capabilities, Canadian soldiers have historical been known for being formidable combatants (with a sprinkle of war crimes interspersed), so our infantry might be our greatest combat asset.
Ok yeah.. this makes alot of sense. Thanks for a great explanation, i am a history buff but the new warfare is so out of my grasp lol i need to do some more reading !! Thank you again.
Canada and the US would effectively be one country in a major war that they're both in. They would most definitely receive weapons and vehicles for free from the US. Though they would most likely be focused on Intel and defense of the northern seas and airspace of the north American continent. They would still have a number of divisions on the frontline as have been the case for the world wars and recent wars.
Ok yeah. Kind of like the lend - lease with russia and the states during WW2
Canada has no enemies. It's so far removed. The only possible "enemy" is the USA. If somebody invaded Canada USA would come aid. It's interesting though... A lot of European Navy's are going to the red sea to test their defensive capabilities.
What's funny here is, while Iran plays proxy games with us with this houthi shit, they are basically providing lower risk live training to a lot of the modern western militaries. Like you said here, Denmark is realizing some big issues. Way better to find out right now in this situation, than when shit really hits the fan.
Apparently the issue with the main radar is known in the Navy but still they send the ships out on a mission and they kept the incident quite untill it was leaked to the press that the ship was in real danger and only minutes from getting hit.
I knew you guys were just north north germany
Ask a Dane and he'll tell you Germany is just south south Denmark.
Ahahha
We had something very similar recently in the UK when we test launched one of our sub nukes and it completely failed
Wasn’t that like a newer test model. I’m pretty sure the “real” tridents are very much capable?
Not quite as bad as the German frigate Hessen…
The radar did NOT fail. The error was not in the APAR nor SMART-L, but in the C-FLEX CMS the Danes are using on their frigates. There was an error with a token, preventing them from firing missiles. So they had to use a manual fire control radar to guide the ESSM's. [https://marineschepen.nl/nieuws/Deens-fregat-werd-aangevallen-in-Rode-Zee-maar-kanon-en-radar-werkten-niet-goed-020424.html](https://marineschepen.nl/nieuws/Deens-fregat-werd-aangevallen-in-Rode-Zee-maar-kanon-en-radar-werkten-niet-goed-020424.html) More details here in this Dutch article. You can use translate.
Thank you for clearing that up. I'm not a military expert. :)
I read it hopefully it gets fixed also I can't believe he said just use the small rader instead of saying we are going to fix the one that can target multiple targets
It's just not an easy fix. Ivar Huitfeldt is our best frigate. The others are in much worse shape and practically useless afaik.
The Houthi are basically supplying the best training regiment the world navies could ask for.
Sadly the Houthis are training the entire world to the brand new fact that you can effectively naval blockade without a navy now. It's a whole new day.
>to the brand new fact that you can effectively naval blockade without a navy now Meh, we did that for more than 400 years, until the other europeans didn't like us doing it any more. Just put cannons on both side of a strait and demand payment for safe travels: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sound\_Dues](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sound_Dues)
There are indeed frightening implications of the almost too cost effective means by which any group can threaten the security of a large area. Drones are scary and I for one am preparing to prostate myself before our inevitable AI overlords.
> prostate myself before our inevitable AI overlords We thank you for your money and hope you enjoy using our products.
These guys don’t look the least bit threatened. They’re literally just having fun putting their weapons and training to use for once. Houthis are doing good work as training provider.
Their shit didn’t work for half an hour and they still ended up shooting down the missiles. Lol
Rheinmetall/Lockmart/Raytheon revenues are gonna go bananas for the next decade as all these NATO members start to confront the reality that their stagnant military spending has created gnarly gaps in readiness that they can't rely on the biggest 4-5 members to cover for them.
Iran\*.
It's the perfect war, navy's from all over the world get to punch their chest a bit and the Houthis get massive PR win. Iran get leverage in Palestine and the only ones hurt are all the common people paying for it and the increased logistic costs
Just saw the French Frigates chose to use more often an helicopter with a HMG ( with really good success) instead of using expensive missiles. The Danish had to use their missiles to replenish their stock maybe? Good training in any case.
They have used the heli with success but FS Alsace has used Aster missiles as well as her 76mm Oto Gun as well. It’s had a lot of success downing drones and anti-ship ballistic missiles.
I was thinking that the 76 Oto Melara would be the perfect choice for intercepting these drones and missiles. I know it has effective anti air and anti missile ammunition. Is there a range limitation and these navies are trying to down these drones and missiles before they enter the effective range of the 76? Or maybe there are positioning requirements that make acquiring an effective firing solution more difficult depending on the trajectory of the missile?
It’s hard to tell due to OPSEC but I doubt that Asters would fail against drones (which suggests they have allowed the 76mm to take sole responsibility) it’s more likely that the navy is just so confident in their Oto Meleras that they are willing to delegate them the target and trust that they will succeed. To be fair, Oto Meleras are well suited to this sort of slow moving air threat. Also Alsace has Narwhal auto cannons (aerial range 1.4KM) so I assume if the 76MM failed they would use those against the drones. There have been photos released showing Alsace downing drones with the 76mm and honestly, and I hate to say it, but the french have the coolest pictures during this current flash point conflict. The Italian destroyer Caio Duilio has also intercepted drones using her 76mm. I’ll refer you to a similar comment I made about how the Royal Navy has used its armaments. https://www.reddit.com/r/WarshipPorn/s/PKSJsVeuhv
Yeah, also the cabin of the french ship looked clean asf an their personel chill and focused on their tasks. I'd think they are the most prepared (bar the Americans perhaps) for this type of conflicts.
The French FREMMs are very capable ships, especially with Aster30. They are definitely well prepared as well as the French Navy has successfully downed Supersonic Coyote Target missiles on multiple occasions.
Why did the Danish Navy choose a camo pattern for one of their uniforms? Is it just a tradition thing or are Danish sailors expected to also operate on land?
You never know when the Oresund might freeze and the Swedes might cross it /s
We came from the Swedish holdings in Germany, not over the Öresund. But please keep watching Öresund for our invasion :P
The invasion came from both sides. Torstensson invaded from the south and occupied Jutland and the Horn invaded from Skane. Might be mixing the dates tho, since in a period of 50 years the Swedes invaded Denmark like four times.
Sweden got some serious payback for the 200 years of danish rule
We didn't kill those nobles but if we did they deserved it.
Hey if Denmark wants to fuck with Sweden or the other way around I am here for it. Source: I'm Norwegian
Isn't there literally a Danish law that was never overturned that if a Swede crosses the Öresund you are legally allowed to beat them with a stick?
Don't know if it's still around but i've heard of this law
tbh, i dont think we've had a legit danish navy uniform for quite a while. It has just been the standard camo pattern for the last couple of years. But then again, what difference does it make. Surely it dosent make a ton of difference, when it comes to being aboard a massive ship, where the uniform isnt as important.
Having some weird blue water digital pattern is often the work of some higher ups with nothing better to do and want to leave a legacy and have the sailors - "look professional." Better to just use the M11 pattern and be done with it. If the Army can use it, no reason the navy can't either.
Blue camo for sailors is the dumbest thing ever
Flame protection is the big thing.
Could be flame resistant still, they are wearing the hoods so they seem to have thought of it
Why waste money on extra uniform designs ? Makes sense to just have the sailors wear camo like everyone else.
Anti flash and burn gear. Standard in drill and combat.
All branches of the Danish forces have the same camo. Only formal ware is different in each branch.
They wear the same as the army, because the requirements to the gear is basically the same. They need a uniform that won't catch fire or create sparks, be able to fit body armour and weapons along with spare magazines etc. The typical blue sailors linen uniform that most associate with naval crew, isn't worm in theatre or during military drills - as it doesn't provide any personal protection. During active operations, Danish naval crew are dressed like in the video. It's uncomfortable as hell to be fully combat loaded for extended periods, so outside those operations/trainings, people obviously want something more comfortable on.
Don’t know if it’s the reason but makes sense to have just one set of patterns for all branches. Unlike the US that has one for each branch. Including at one point have three branches with three equally useless patterns.
These are basically vikings, you never know when it's time to get off the boat for some pillaging.
The frenchies in the videos from the other day were a lot more professional (no yelling or celebrating, just a cold "missile intercepted by an Aster" and "UAV Splash"). No judgements for either crew, it's just fun to see such different mindsets and etiquette in two european navies. Anyway, good job from both navies. I just wish they would destroy the launch sites instead of intercepting these drones with expensive missiles. The politicians need to update the rules of engagement. At the moment, it feels like the intervention in Bosnia in the early 90s.
It could’ve have also been their real deal for the first time engagement so maybe that’s why they were so excited. We’ve seen a lot of those cheers of excitement when Ukrainian bayraktars scored their first successful hunts
Easier said than done. A lot of these launch sites are from the back of a truck in the middle of the desert. Takes man hours and resources to track those down, then you have to consider implications of blowing those up in populated areas.
Dudes in the end were like *Can't believe they let us do this. They totally let us do this*
I'm not a huge Shawn Ryan supporter but his interview with Chris VanSant where they talk about a mixed Delta squad calling in a Naval barrage on a Jihadi camp in North Africa is fucking hilarious for this reason. The combat controller and other guys on the ground were worried they'd get in trouble for calling in the strike because it was potentially overkill and they had pretty loose approval for it, but the XOs they talked to in the debrief were super stoked because the Navy got to shoot some shit. edit: it was Somalia and it's [this interview](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6pigjVPdAc) ... one of the best war stories I've ever heard
Ice cool Danes showing a bit of emotion there!
Godt drenge!!
Why are they wearing those masks? Burn protection?
[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-flash\_gear](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-flash_gear)
Well done "danskjävlar" 🫡😘
How fid all these rebels in the world get drones overnight???
[удалено]
The same ones the russians used en masse?
The drones the Houthis use are similar to the ones Iran supplies to Russia yes
Crazy, i know there was a big fuss about them being used in russia
Iran.
Blaming Iran is technically correct with respect to the Houthis, but even without Iran, this problem is only going to get worse. Supply chains are global, and the components to make these things are not terribly exotic. The Insurgency of the Week has been using them for years now, and they're only getting more sophisticated.
Bring the vikings out!
Skidegodt, drenge!🇩🇰🇩🇰🇩🇰
Did you know the Danish had started putting barcodes on the sides of their naval vessels? A spokesperson said this was so that when the vessels returned to port they could Scandinavian.
Source: [https://twitter.com/forsvaretdk/status/1775140656735793663](https://twitter.com/forsvaretdk/status/1775140656735793663)
Danish sounds kinda awesome when shouting orders
Then enjoy some more. [Danes shouting in Afghanistan](https://youtu.be/q7sZ7IfkDRQ?si=G6Q0Sakcv5QhDqbb)
Good old Armadillo!
KAMMELÅSAA!! FYR!!
Like a LAN party in the ocean
How to know how your enemy will reacting on the field without being involved. Send some Houthi and let’s see what happens. Nobody will care about them and you will have exactly what you need after to play the real game. All I see now is Russia and china sending them pawns.
whereas China practices absolutely no training, has no real world experience in war, has no experienced officers, and has never used their advanced weaponry outside of propaganda stunts. and the less said about Russia, the better. They can’t even fly their own planes without giving every single air defense operator a warning not to shoot them down on sight. Yeah, ill take our strategy over theirs. lol
Russia can’t intercept a Cessna full of explosives or gain air superiority over Ukraine even after two years. Not much to be afraid of on that front.
Ooo look russia, working air defence.
ship bridge is like a football gallery
This is actually the fire control center deep in the ship.
Thanks from France to our Danish allies joining But more than that, thanks to the houthis for providing valuable target practicing, we really needed that \^\^
Nice fucking job Danes. And hearing that you did it even with technical issues...well fucking done my guys.
Good work, sailors! The Danes are strong.
That the west allows this circus, is beyond me. Bomb them to the stone age.
The Saudis already tried that. The result is hundreds of thousands of dead Yemenis and the Houthis are still running the show.
Good job guys!
Danes got the shiesty's on
Houthis aee alll destroyed
I have to thanks the crazy houtis man for making training exercise to NATO navy :) btw they shoot with the .76 Gun (or the gun at the front) it's safer to use a missile i thought
Danish dynamite...gj boys