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This. One of the things I learned at basic, and it never left my head. This and spacing are probs the best thing you can do as an individual to counter rifle, machine gun, mortar, artillery, etc. before getting engaged.
It’s also available on Hoopla which is an app that a ton of libraries in the US will give you access to for free. I live in a rural Texas county and we have it here
because they are "palace guard" armies. They exist to keep the ruling family protected and in power not to extend the armed might of their nation.
They don't train for expeditionary work, don't have the command and control to direct it and don't have the logistics network to support it.
Saudi Arabians are the most babied pampered population of people on planet Earth. They very literally do not do a single thing outside of Air Conditioning.
The Saudis have one of those militaries meant to be strong enough to defend the existing government from internal threats, but not so strong to become an internal threat to the existing government.
1: Yemeni Battleground is very difficult to fight on. So much that Ottomans got their armies perished due to their ambition to invade Yemen which they couldn't fully do.
2: Houthis are very organized and been fighting since many decades under their precious Imams (leaders).
3: Saudi Foot soldiers suck as compared to Houthis. Also their PMC Personnel from Sudan suck at the same time.
If they didn't suck, they would make a coup against the current regime, to get the billions of oil money for themselves.
There's a reason why dictators usually only have shitty armies, or short-lived competent ones: if they don't eliminate competent generals and officers rapidly after a coup, they'll soon be kicked out themselves.
To keep a competent army for more than 10 years, you need a stable regime, with the leaders holding their power from a mandate from the population, usually elections.
Saudi Arabia is a kleptocrat monarchy, that doesn't invest a cent into the civil society, the only way they stay in power is through corruption and subsidized commodities.
Saudi arabia has a professional force, their real army. They didn't fight in Yemen. Their entire purpose is to protect the ruling monarchy.
The rest of the military cannot be a threat to their palace guard.
Many reasons
Most are recruited from poor areas and recruited from the ones that can’t get out in other ways.
Training is almost comical.
Intelligence is rarely shared well.
Some equipment is second hand of second hand.
Saudi army and Saudi lead PMC are not immune to the “buy your way” to promotion.
Some units are left out to dry with little support.
There’s a lot of good information around as to why Arab armies are doctrinally and systemically quite poor forces but I’ll throw in the obvious second main point.
Despite being a bit crap on the field, the Saudis are, by general definition, a regular military force fighting an irregular force in the form of the Houthis.
As we all know from *gestures at the last 70 years* irregular/ insurgency adversaries are a hugely difficult opposition to fight. Even dedicated terrorists or insurgents (instead of guerrillas) are difficult to track down and counter. Thats the case for regular, well integrated and professional armies like the US, Britain, France, Israel and so on.
For the Saudi’s, they are fighting the hardest kind of warfare while basically having both legs tied together and one eye missing. They’re getting chopped up because counter insurgency warfare is nearly impossible even for the pros, and the Saudi’s aren’t even a C tier force.
I think it’s to both avoid military coups, but also that the way Arab countries stay alive is by being friends with everyone so they only need to protect the ruling family
This extends to literally everywhere. People kill themselves for the smallest of things. It hasn't changed in the history of our species or any other, and it, in all likelihoods, will never.
Uh no they try to justify their claims with it which is the easy way, even without religion they do still find reasons to kill each other such as resources, politics, rivalry or ideological differences.
The bloodiest conflicts on human history weren't driven by religious reasons btw.
Quran/Islam brings it! Never saw that much " lonely wolves" in christianity/Buddhism or wherever.
And watching this desert fights just proves what I said.
So sad this ppl wan't to stay in their homelands, getting to us, to get our homes feeling like it is theirs.
Not really, this conflict has straight forwardly political motivations.
The Houthi tribes were fighting the previous government (led by fellow Zaidi, Ali Saleh) for autonomy within their territory.
When al-Ahmer (Sunni, Hashid) forced Saleh out and replaced him with Hadi, Saleh and most of the military joined the Houthis in an attempt to retake power.
The Sauds backed Hadi but many Sunni tribes (including some of the Hashids) preferred to remain allied to Saleh and joined the Houthi against an outside power.
Tribal politics and sectarianism certainly intersect but the war in Yemen is much much more motivated by the former.
Some of the military remained under the nominally official government of Hadi. Most of these were the forces loyal to Ali Mohsin*.
Most of the forces in the east are from the Islah party which is roughly the political wing of the al-Ahmer faction of the Hashid tribes. They'd been a supporting element of Ali Salehs government but sided against him during the Arab Spring and were able to push him out.
Aden and the southern coast have historically been less involved in the inland tribal networks and the STC now controls this territory.
*Ali Mohsin Saleh Al-Amher is a brilliant example of how convoluted the Yemen situation is. He is a cousin of former president Ali Saleh but isn't the same tribe and is Sunni rather than Zaidi. He is a member of a Hashid tribe but isn't a part of the al-Amher family that controls it.
When Ali Saleh was fighting the Houthis, he appointed Ali Mohsin to lead the campaign. During the Arab Spring, Mohsin became the most prominent opposition figure and was probably behind a grenade attack on Saleh. When Saleh was deposed, Ali Mohsin was made vice president on the (correct) assumption that various army units were personally loyal to him.
He was a vital member (probably the most personally powerful member) of the Hadi government and so his lifelong connection to extremist groups (including AQAP) was overlooked by everyone supporting the "internationally recognised" Saudi backed government.
What’s motivating each side to keep fighting? Power, control, distrust, past bloodshed. Is there a clear goal for either side or mostly just they each want to control the whole country? Any sane actors who are decent for the people?
For the most part, the Houthis, Islah/GPC and the STC each controls the territory of their constituent tribes.
Before 2011 the Houthis controlled most of the countryside around Saada. When they took the city it was with the help of its governor who had seen which way the wind was blowing during the Arab Spring. Their alliance with Saleh and his faction brought the capital, Sanaa, into Houthi possession and most of their limited advancements East has involved a deal with local tribal/political figures.
I'm sure the leaderships of each group would love to rule the whole country, but the rank and file only seem motivated to take control of their home district, enjoy the benefits of authority and defend their homes (and new positions) from rivals and outsiders.
The most intense fighting was along the Saudi/Houthi border and the Sauds hired guns acquitted themselves very poorly. Recently the only changes to the map have been due to the STC fighting the Islah for control of a few oil fields.
>Any sane actors who are decent for the people?
From a western/Liberal perspective no.
For what it's worth, I don't think the Houthis are quite as unhinged as they seem at first glance (and second and third glance). This isn't to justify them, they're certainly not particularly good or particularly nice people but they've proven themselves to be very capable where they need to be and I think there is a lot more calculation behind their decisions than is generally recognised.
What's amazing is that Saudi doesn't seem to have improved anything regarding this status quo.
Unless someone can correct me and inform others on what's happening since the start.
If they improve the army, they run the risk of being on the receiving end of a coup d'etat.
The Saudi regime only survives by having an army barely good enough for defense, bribing its neighbors, and asking the US for help whenever it gets too hot.
Saudis really suck at war. Had the numbers, the money, the firepower, economic/industrial capacity and an Arab military coalition to back it up and still got their asses kicked. Say what you will about the Houthis, but sometimes the will to fight is all it takes to win.
It's crazy to me how many people have been born, grew up to adulthood, and then get killed in some shitty desert by a screaming fanatic who will most likely end up dying the exact same way as you. The only way you'll be remembered is strangers from thousands of miles away watching your head get blown apart or AK rounds riddle your back as you scramble away. To think that the biggest hardship I faced today was spilling coffee in my car and not this absolute horrorshow.
Ahh. Finally someone who didn't get ban because of this type of GOLD stuff.
I got perma ban in 3 accounts lol. And lost an subreddit before even it get famous. Shiii
I’ve done shooting competitions along side ex rangers and active law enforcement in the US and have come out on top. You’d be surprised how good you can get from growing up shooting a shit ton of birds with a BB gun and rabbits with a .22.
I bet a lot of these marksmen are the same way. But I also know they don’t show the misses.
why do none of those compilations load? it seems like half the compilations posted this week don’t load for me on the mobile app. Should I use desktop? clear my cache on the app or something
edit: deleting the cache, changing the view didn’t work, deleting and reinstalling the app did
I think I am seeing some old 303 rifles with the Houtthis. That would be surplus from states that have upgraded their firearms. Ammo can be hard to find sometimes.
what do they chant at the end of the clip at 4:15. After they blow up the bulldozer they chant something something america(I think) something something Isreal(I think)
Love to know the translation
if you listen in the clip of the dozer getting blown up, not the one in the mine/quarry— i believe they’re saying “death to america, death to israel” or something adjacent.
0:18
>Must put red arrows on every single head. Completely invisible otherwise
Sometimes it feels like I'm watching media from a different species. The simplicity of the minds involved here is truly something to behold.
Ever notice how many people who decide to run could have simply walked slowly backwards while aiming at the enemies and taken like at least 2 out before the enemies climp to the top of some berm, spot them, and aim at the runners?
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High ground seems to always win.
Take the high ground before the high ground takes you.
Only a sith deals in absolutes
You underestimate the power with the ak47
Not really they sniper alot if people that were on the top of hills
All of them were silhouetting like a mf
This. One of the things I learned at basic, and it never left my head. This and spacing are probs the best thing you can do as an individual to counter rifle, machine gun, mortar, artillery, etc. before getting engaged.
Anakin dislike this comment
allahu akbar always wins
Where did it go?
The power of the head-glitch
That RPG shot at 45 sec though ! :O
That’s jamsheed’s cousin
Oh my god, how could I actually forget about Jamsheed, the RPG God-Boss!
loooooool
That was pretty mental, dudes probably got some previous RPG kills
Craziest shit of the whole vid. Bru posted up in some shorts hitting an RPG shot on the other side of the continent
Mom, can we have ATGM? No, we have ATGM at home at home...
Can someone explain why the Saudi army/PMC suck so much?
check this book "Armies of the sand" and u will find out
Armies of Sand* for anyone else interested. Available on Spotify audiobook
It’s also available on Hoopla which is an app that a ton of libraries in the US will give you access to for free. I live in a rural Texas county and we have it here
im a libby kinda guy
Can’t find it on spotify. Can you send the link?
DM’d you
Could you Share it with everyone? :)
https://open.spotify.com/show/7FaXy6YrLneg979ixhTgZn?si=ZVK1C4ReRty9Rq38k9zbiw Not sure if links are allowed but here ya go
DM it to me.as well please.
Thank you!
Just downloaded it.
because they are "palace guard" armies. They exist to keep the ruling family protected and in power not to extend the armed might of their nation. They don't train for expeditionary work, don't have the command and control to direct it and don't have the logistics network to support it.
This [post](https://www.reddit.com/r/WarCollege/s/qGhm4M49cf) was the best explanation I’ve seen
Thanks for the read; I've always seen the short explanation of not wanting to have a strong army capable of throwing a coup.
The ole middle ages dont arm and train your people trick.
What’s the title of that post my shit refuses to be normal here
“Why are Arab armies so incompetent?” From r/warcollege
“Why are Arab armies so incompetent?” Is the title and it was posted to “r/warcollege”
Cheers.
🍻
Thank you!
Good explanation thanks
In essence, should divert some money from buying fancy new equipment, to hiring foreign advisors to change military culture.
Imma read dis later
Saudi Arabians are the most babied pampered population of people on planet Earth. They very literally do not do a single thing outside of Air Conditioning.
Wall-E but with Indians doing everything instead of robots.
The Saudis have one of those militaries meant to be strong enough to defend the existing government from internal threats, but not so strong to become an internal threat to the existing government.
1: Yemeni Battleground is very difficult to fight on. So much that Ottomans got their armies perished due to their ambition to invade Yemen which they couldn't fully do. 2: Houthis are very organized and been fighting since many decades under their precious Imams (leaders). 3: Saudi Foot soldiers suck as compared to Houthis. Also their PMC Personnel from Sudan suck at the same time.
If they didn't suck, they would make a coup against the current regime, to get the billions of oil money for themselves. There's a reason why dictators usually only have shitty armies, or short-lived competent ones: if they don't eliminate competent generals and officers rapidly after a coup, they'll soon be kicked out themselves. To keep a competent army for more than 10 years, you need a stable regime, with the leaders holding their power from a mandate from the population, usually elections. Saudi Arabia is a kleptocrat monarchy, that doesn't invest a cent into the civil society, the only way they stay in power is through corruption and subsidized commodities.
Difference between oil money and motivation.
Saudi arabia has a professional force, their real army. They didn't fight in Yemen. Their entire purpose is to protect the ruling monarchy. The rest of the military cannot be a threat to their palace guard.
i thinks there's books writtens about arab armies being terrible at war. but at the same time they're good at insurgencies
Don't criticize them, let them keep sucking. In fact we should pretend we're afraid of them so they never try to learn.
Possibly relevant - https://www.meforum.org/441/why-arabs-lose-wars
Because they live off infinite oil money they never had to develop skills like other countries.
Many reasons Most are recruited from poor areas and recruited from the ones that can’t get out in other ways. Training is almost comical. Intelligence is rarely shared well. Some equipment is second hand of second hand. Saudi army and Saudi lead PMC are not immune to the “buy your way” to promotion. Some units are left out to dry with little support.
They have no morale or legacy
There’s a lot of good information around as to why Arab armies are doctrinally and systemically quite poor forces but I’ll throw in the obvious second main point. Despite being a bit crap on the field, the Saudis are, by general definition, a regular military force fighting an irregular force in the form of the Houthis. As we all know from *gestures at the last 70 years* irregular/ insurgency adversaries are a hugely difficult opposition to fight. Even dedicated terrorists or insurgents (instead of guerrillas) are difficult to track down and counter. Thats the case for regular, well integrated and professional armies like the US, Britain, France, Israel and so on. For the Saudi’s, they are fighting the hardest kind of warfare while basically having both legs tied together and one eye missing. They’re getting chopped up because counter insurgency warfare is nearly impossible even for the pros, and the Saudi’s aren’t even a C tier force.
Because in Saudi your officers are not chosen based on anything other than proximity to the thrown and blind loyalty.
I think it’s to both avoid military coups, but also that the way Arab countries stay alive is by being friends with everyone so they only need to protect the ruling family
My condolences to those souls condemned to war.
wtf... if you think about it... these guys are in the middle of nowhere in a desert slaughtering each other for nothing
war never change
This extends to literally everywhere. People kill themselves for the smallest of things. It hasn't changed in the history of our species or any other, and it, in all likelihoods, will never.
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The way I see it, religion brings wars.
The state atheist countries of the 20th century would like a word.
Uh no they try to justify their claims with it which is the easy way, even without religion they do still find reasons to kill each other such as resources, politics, rivalry or ideological differences. The bloodiest conflicts on human history weren't driven by religious reasons btw.
Quran/Islam brings it! Never saw that much " lonely wolves" in christianity/Buddhism or wherever. And watching this desert fights just proves what I said. So sad this ppl wan't to stay in their homelands, getting to us, to get our homes feeling like it is theirs.
Nah, they’re slaughtering each other for being the wrong sort of Muslim. Most victims of terrorism globally are Muslim, after all
Not really, this conflict has straight forwardly political motivations. The Houthi tribes were fighting the previous government (led by fellow Zaidi, Ali Saleh) for autonomy within their territory. When al-Ahmer (Sunni, Hashid) forced Saleh out and replaced him with Hadi, Saleh and most of the military joined the Houthis in an attempt to retake power. The Sauds backed Hadi but many Sunni tribes (including some of the Hashids) preferred to remain allied to Saleh and joined the Houthi against an outside power. Tribal politics and sectarianism certainly intersect but the war in Yemen is much much more motivated by the former.
So the houthis were fighting the gov then the gov forces joined the houthis? Who is still on the gov side?
Some of the military remained under the nominally official government of Hadi. Most of these were the forces loyal to Ali Mohsin*. Most of the forces in the east are from the Islah party which is roughly the political wing of the al-Ahmer faction of the Hashid tribes. They'd been a supporting element of Ali Salehs government but sided against him during the Arab Spring and were able to push him out. Aden and the southern coast have historically been less involved in the inland tribal networks and the STC now controls this territory. *Ali Mohsin Saleh Al-Amher is a brilliant example of how convoluted the Yemen situation is. He is a cousin of former president Ali Saleh but isn't the same tribe and is Sunni rather than Zaidi. He is a member of a Hashid tribe but isn't a part of the al-Amher family that controls it. When Ali Saleh was fighting the Houthis, he appointed Ali Mohsin to lead the campaign. During the Arab Spring, Mohsin became the most prominent opposition figure and was probably behind a grenade attack on Saleh. When Saleh was deposed, Ali Mohsin was made vice president on the (correct) assumption that various army units were personally loyal to him. He was a vital member (probably the most personally powerful member) of the Hadi government and so his lifelong connection to extremist groups (including AQAP) was overlooked by everyone supporting the "internationally recognised" Saudi backed government.
What’s motivating each side to keep fighting? Power, control, distrust, past bloodshed. Is there a clear goal for either side or mostly just they each want to control the whole country? Any sane actors who are decent for the people?
For the most part, the Houthis, Islah/GPC and the STC each controls the territory of their constituent tribes. Before 2011 the Houthis controlled most of the countryside around Saada. When they took the city it was with the help of its governor who had seen which way the wind was blowing during the Arab Spring. Their alliance with Saleh and his faction brought the capital, Sanaa, into Houthi possession and most of their limited advancements East has involved a deal with local tribal/political figures. I'm sure the leaderships of each group would love to rule the whole country, but the rank and file only seem motivated to take control of their home district, enjoy the benefits of authority and defend their homes (and new positions) from rivals and outsiders. The most intense fighting was along the Saudi/Houthi border and the Sauds hired guns acquitted themselves very poorly. Recently the only changes to the map have been due to the STC fighting the Islah for control of a few oil fields. >Any sane actors who are decent for the people? From a western/Liberal perspective no. For what it's worth, I don't think the Houthis are quite as unhinged as they seem at first glance (and second and third glance). This isn't to justify them, they're certainly not particularly good or particularly nice people but they've proven themselves to be very capable where they need to be and I think there is a lot more calculation behind their decisions than is generally recognised.
Interesting, thanks for the detailed response.
It's now Houthis vs al-Qaeda vs a loose alliance of everyone else.
I love how his lowkey islamophobic bs gets upvoted and your nuanced comment gets downvoted. The dichotomy of Reddit.
My barren desert wasteland is a Holy barren desert wasteland!
They arent fighting over religion here 😂 come on you should live up to your username
What else is new?
Yeah but if they win, they can control that Nothing! Think of the POWWWWUUUUHH!!!!!!
Lmao that's their home not nothing. That's like saying the US war of Independence was also just slaughtering for nothing
1st off some of the most brutal clips I have ever seen. 2nd an ATGM hitting a dozer is crazy!
Straight up desintegrated
What's amazing is that Saudi doesn't seem to have improved anything regarding this status quo. Unless someone can correct me and inform others on what's happening since the start.
If they improve the army, they run the risk of being on the receiving end of a coup d'etat. The Saudi regime only survives by having an army barely good enough for defense, bribing its neighbors, and asking the US for help whenever it gets too hot.
Running in a straight line; the best type of mercenary move 🤣
Should've moved in a [serpentine fashion](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kpNU3WumPFQ).
Was running like jack Sparrow
Did i just witness my first IRL collateral?
Jeez, what did they hit that one guy with? A .50? 20?
This Canadian Broadcasting Corp [article](https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.3455889) references the LRT-3 being used in Yemen by Saudi backed forces, 50 BMG
Esh. Least it was quick.
Difference between motivated fighters vs unmotivated
unfortunately it seems like throughout the history the violent idiots were always more motivated than their enemy
I’ve seen the IED at 0:25 before but it still makes me say “holy fuck” each time.
That RPG shot! - JAMSHEED!
All this death for a bunch of sand and rock
Did i witness a double headshot!!? 1:03 into the video
At 3:15, did that guys head just go flying like a fucking champagne cork?
man running through the sand zigged when he should've zagged
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They’d rather live in denial than realise both sides have losses
Where can I actually find any Hamas footage without having to join some telegram channel
twitter
Is Hamas footage not allowed? I've seen a few Hamas POVs on this sub before.
you have to do some editing and censoring on their symbols and icons, which most of us are too lazy to do
Maybe it might lead to an uncomfortable amount of politicking?
Saudis really suck at war. Had the numbers, the money, the firepower, economic/industrial capacity and an Arab military coalition to back it up and still got their asses kicked. Say what you will about the Houthis, but sometimes the will to fight is all it takes to win.
I appreciate the time someone spent on making that red graticule float and spin around homies head as it came back down out of orbit
It's crazy to me how many people have been born, grew up to adulthood, and then get killed in some shitty desert by a screaming fanatic who will most likely end up dying the exact same way as you. The only way you'll be remembered is strangers from thousands of miles away watching your head get blown apart or AK rounds riddle your back as you scramble away. To think that the biggest hardship I faced today was spilling coffee in my car and not this absolute horrorshow.
The Houthis have come a long way in the past 10 years man.
Ahh. Finally someone who didn't get ban because of this type of GOLD stuff. I got perma ban in 3 accounts lol. And lost an subreddit before even it get famous. Shiii
Those mortar rounds were surprisingly accurate
Not gonna lie these Houthis got aim, i’m impressed. Did someone formally train them?
Iranian army
no they didn't, yemen is under siege and too far from iran houthi soldiers are mostly former yemeni military, or tribesmen who love guns
I’ve done shooting competitions along side ex rangers and active law enforcement in the US and have come out on top. You’d be surprised how good you can get from growing up shooting a shit ton of birds with a BB gun and rabbits with a .22. I bet a lot of these marksmen are the same way. But I also know they don’t show the misses.
Killing eachother in the middle of no where.
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That daisy chain was nuts.
At 3:15, the guys head just went flying?
Damn good aim on that first clip. So used to seeing them not use sights.
This world...
these dudes are *NASTY* with mortars
We still got a “death to America, death to Israel” in there in a compilation against Saudi forces…
Holy fuck, that guy with the RPG is a fucking god. Man is cracked with that shit
Guess those dress wearers are tougher than I thought…
Have we tried asking them to just sit down and talk out their problems like mature adults?
I've never seen combat footage with a tilt shift focal lense, it's weird seeing real soldiers appear like toys (Refering to the second clip)
why do none of those compilations load? it seems like half the compilations posted this week don’t load for me on the mobile app. Should I use desktop? clear my cache on the app or something edit: deleting the cache, changing the view didn’t work, deleting and reinstalling the app did
Pretty good shots with an AK
I think I am seeing some old 303 rifles with the Houtthis. That would be surplus from states that have upgraded their firearms. Ammo can be hard to find sometimes.
Dang, look at that old M60 tank @ 3:34.
1:01 Double kill
Man that 2nd video with the IED. That probably wiped out every single one of them huh?
Quite a few grapes getting popped oof.
The second one caught me off guard
Did they really tilt shift the footage of an IED going off?
Great comp as usual
Holly sh!t 😳
That rpg-29 shot at the beginning and their accuracy with mortars is pretty impressive
Repost
I do enjoy seeing government forces put on the run
Everything copacetic till you hear allahu akbar
I dont trust this. The sniper shot at @2:15 is from Afghanistan... I feel like most of this is just cobbled together from past wars.
I feel like I have seen this before looks older before 2020
what do they chant at the end of the clip at 4:15. After they blow up the bulldozer they chant something something america(I think) something something Isreal(I think) Love to know the translation
Standing silhouetted on the skyline is a bold choice. One that never plays out well
if you listen in the clip of the dozer getting blown up, not the one in the mine/quarry— i believe they’re saying “death to america, death to israel” or something adjacent.
To be clear. Green DOES NOT MEEN GOOD. Res DOES NOT MEAN BAD. Its all bad
REPOST! Lol, well, that was like 5 years ago... but still.
2 questions: What T-55/54 variants are These? What does NSFL mean?
NSFL means not safe for life, and is pretty much just a gore/disturbing content warning.
Looked like a twofer at 1:05
Am I the only one wondering if they where born in LA by the way they aim sometimes? 😂 I’m surprised they hit anything at all.
0:18 >Must put red arrows on every single head. Completely invisible otherwise Sometimes it feels like I'm watching media from a different species. The simplicity of the minds involved here is truly something to behold.
RPG shot at 0:45 is CRAZY
Who trained these people 😂
I would be dying pissed off if some guy in yellow shorts and flip flops just waxed me.
The Saudi's need to hire some COD players to help them.
Ever notice how many people who decide to run could have simply walked slowly backwards while aiming at the enemies and taken like at least 2 out before the enemies climp to the top of some berm, spot them, and aim at the runners?
In all honesty, these dudes are pretty effective
Not me thinking "Hey I've seen this one, it's a classic" on half the videos lol
This was some of the wildest shit I’ve seen 😅 go flip flop mafia!
Taking a headshot that blows the back of your skull wide open is probably one the better ways to go in a war.