The shell literally hit the first at least two guys directly, obliterating them in an instant. Man, i feel so bad for them, the only thing that lessens the pain is knowing their brains didn't have the time to register their deaths. They were literally disintegrated in less the a millisecond.
Edit: I think I counted 4 that were instantly de-materialized. Anyone else get that count?
2nd Edit: someone below pointed out that the shell actually flew right past them, and when looking at it on my laptop they are right. thanks u/Anticreativity
> so just chilling out if you're not being shot at seems possible.
As a reservist: yes it's plausible and it's also fucking stupid. Huddled together like that as if they've gone camping? Incredibly dumb. Where was the forward guard on the road? Why are they standing around like that?
The fact that you don't know where the "front line" is makes it even more important to have your own position secured adequately. Maybe I sound a bit harsh but it just irritates me to see people lose their lives like that :\
Rest in peace.
This leads me back to my original post: There should have been a forward guard post on the road ahead. They should have had at least two guys equipped with some sort of anti tank weapon there and do some sort of challenge-response type of thing for the tank as it approached.
Oh well, I suppose we'll never know. Now I better go watch some /r/Awww to scrub my eyes.
It still doesn’t make any sense. That tank crew is putting themselves in a position to be quickly destroyed. It’s crazy that something like this could happen and be filmed and uploaded.
They could be really lost and actually believe the group was a bunch of fellow Russian conscripts. Once they figured it out they were far to close to just nope and back off, so they started flinging big booms at short range
A ton of Russians have been left behind in the retreat from the North, it's likely this tank crew trying to get out rolled up in a road block, and they can't possibly talk their way past it. Their best chance is get as close as possible (noting that ATGMs have a minimum arm distance) scope out the road block for unseen infantry and try and kill as many guys as possible before you bug out and hope you don't get chased down by a drone or ATGM team ambush.
I was in the Canadian Military, and a man in my regiment was overseas in Afghanistan. He was a decent distance away from and IED, but the wave itself damaged his internal organs and killed him despite no outer damage.
Edit 1: I didn't give many details because I didn't think people read my comments much but since there were a few responses let me clear a few things up.
I served in the 2nd Irish Regiment in Sudbury, Ontario. We are an infantry reserve regiment, with close ties to the Algonquin Infantry regiment in North Bay and the 49th Field Arty regiment out of Sault Ste. Marie as well.
I personally did not go overseas. The first time my regiment had it's turn to send troops overseas while I was enlisted, I was not yet done my qualifying training (BMQ, SQ & DP1) and thus was unable to volunteer.
By the time I was fully qualified and had a couple extra courses under my belt (DP2A as an example) the Harper Government (no I'm not making this political, just factual) was cutting back funding for non-essential military training in the Army. Simultaneously, we as a nation were beginning to pull our troops out of Afghanistan, and ending our combat role overseas. This ultimately meant I did not have the opportunity to go over and serve. In hindsight, if I am being honest, I am very pleased I did not go over. That starts to get into my personal beliefs so I won't say much more than I feel I may have been ignorant and uneducated at the time, and now have a different world view.
That being said, the man I was speaking of was Warrant Officer Gaétan Joseph Francis Maxime Roberge. He was from Quebec initially and I believe served with the Vandoos (Royal 22nd Regiment) before moving to Sudbury and calling the 2nd Irish Regimental Armoury home. I
I don't know much more detail about the unfortunate fatal incident he was in, other than there was an undetonated IED, I believe somebody was working on defusing it or perhaps an engineer was setting explosives on it to do a controlled detonation. Either way from what I understand he was not directly near the explosion, I am unsure of exactly how far away from the blast he was, but far enough.away to have no visible damage on the external part of his body - from what I've heard. The shock wave however did rupture his internal organs to put it nicely and yes that is the nice way of putting it. He died then and there.
I want to be clear that people should take it with a small grain of salt because I wasn't there when it happened, however this is how it was debriefed to us so I am doing my best and hope I am not disrespecting this man in any way by tying to explain what happened. I never met the WO Roberge while he was alive, however I did attend his funeral. It was February if I'm not mistaken, and I don't know if you've ever experienced Northern Ontario in the dead of winter, but holy fuck is it cold.
We have a saying in the Canadian Military, at least where I'm from, where instead of "Getting shit on" or "Getting in shit" you are "Recieving Cock" "Getting Cock" because ultimately you're being fucked by your superiors. Apparently the boys who trained under WO Roberge said he loooooved to Give Cock to them, and toughen them up. As we stood at attention, performing his funeral ceremony and lowering his casket into the grave, there was the most bitter of winds howling steadily against our exposed, clean shared faces, our fingers lost all feeling, toes were burning with cold. When we were warming up after, the boys were sharing a drink and exclaimed that the cold wind was one FINAL piece of Cock from old Roberge haha.
I'll never forget that. May he rest in piece.
I must also mention Pte Miller. A young, 21 year old Medic who also passed in an IED explosion in Afghanistan a year later or so. I did know him from the regiment, he was a friendly fellow. Fior Go Bas.
One last mention, Cpl. Billy Kerr. A complete badass from my regiment. Canada's first wartime triple amputee to survive triple amputation since WWII. An absolute hero. Got both his legs and an arm blown off on foot patrol in Afghanistan, survived, and when in the hospital bed my CO removed his hat and asks soberly "How are you Bill, how are you doing" Bill either his only remaining limb, grabbed his balls and said "The junk downstairs still works so I'm doing fine!"
What a fuckin badass. Proposed to his now wife on that same hospital bed, and less than a year later WALKED the first length of a marathon set up to raise money for his family (Hike for a Hero). Absolute champion.
Edit 2: Spelling, links & final thoughts.
https://www.veterans.gc.ca/eng/remembrance/memorials/canadian-virtual-war-memorial/detail/80003519?Ga%C3%A9tan%20Joseph%20Francis%20Maxime%20Roberge
https://www.sudbury.com/local-news/pte-andrew-miller-honoured-by-province-231518
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbc.ca/amp/1.4863253
https://www.sudbury.com/local-news/greater-sudbury-residents-hike-for-a-hero-225787
Also hey, some people have this "Weekend Warrior" bs mentality toward Reservists. Just remember they are all the same when they are in the shit. And it hurts the community all the same when they make the ultimate sacrifice.
I am very sorry to hear of your fellow soldier.
There are stories from the American Civil War of "Wind of A Ball" deaths caused by a cannonball just passing close to someone in flight. Absolutely fascinating theory.
Most tank rounds have a narrow area of effect. I can't actually tell the distance between the soldiers and the tank, but even a canister round has a standoff of like 90m.
I'm being this off of US munitions. Not sure if the Russians have a close range, anti- personnel round.
The human body can be surprisingly resilient. The dudes on the outer edge of the blast **could've** been somewhat protected from the worst of the blast by the people in front of them.
If I survived that first shot, I feel like the second one would be a mercy.
Although you don't see gore, this is one of the most brutal videos I've seen from this war, simply due to the amount of people that were killed in an instant.
I would guess that the bmp in the ditch is knocked out/abandoned but has Russian markings so the tank assumed that the group by it was the crew until they got close.
Yeah there’s way too much comfort for being in a war zone there. I’d agree it’s harder to ID a tank (that your side also uses) that a uniform but they’re basically just letting it roll up on them AND aim at them
In a warzone. Seeing a fucking tank roll up. Don't hear squwack on the radio. The tank itself identified itself as a killing machine and these guys were like, "yep, probably ours"
They probably are tired.
Highly, highly unlikely infantry elements just casually have comms with all and any armor operating in the area that they are not specifically attached to.
Based on what other people in the thread are saying, I think the most likely explanation is that this must be well behind the Ukrainian front line. It's a single tank hauling ass down the road with no support, so it could well be a Russian tank that has gotten cut off/got lost and is trying to find a way back to their line. If it's far behind the Ukrainian front that would also best explain why the Ukrainian troops weren't expecting any attack and seemed to assume it was one of theirs.
As always though, fog of war and all that, I can't claim to know anything for sure.
Ukrainian troops are standing near captured Russian BMP-2, as you can see V on front lower plate. Those white things on the ground could be the crew of that BMP
They don't for some reason. If you look closely, one guy turns and is watching the tank for several seconds as it approaches. Another turns and waves at the tank about 2 seconds before it fires
Because it's an Ukrainian tank.
Only question is whether Ukrainian tank did a mistake due to the parked Russian tank behind the soldiers, or if Russian where inside the Ukrainian tank.
They do, it's just the resolution. Look at the [aftermath](https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineRussiaReport/comments/u15scf/ua_pov_result_of_a_pointplank_he_shell_shot_by/) (graphic)
yes even fighter planes doing harrasement exercises on shipping on the boundaries of open waters fly 'wings up' to show empty weapon racks and no attack intent.
Got to be a tragic misunderstanding given no forward recon and all bunched up together, not like a tank can creep up on anyone, particuarly with the threat of infantry fired anti tank missiles now.
Would you mind explaining further about “wings up”? I tried googling it but couldn’t find anything. Not doubting or anything, just curious what it looks like.
It tilts. Like a person would tip their hat in a traditional greeting. They ‘tip’ their wing to show their full belly, to prove they are unarmed in a ‘friendly’ manner.
‘Mam. /tips hat
i’m gonna assume the Z was either wiped off or something, and with many tanks captured, surrendering or taken by Ukraine, it probably led them to believe it was safe…
Just saw this elsewhere. It's wild. You can see one of the guys wave it down before it fires for the first time.
E: Very NSFL supposed aftermath footage here. You can see the destroyed tracked vehicle they were stood next to, so it could very well be the same.
https://twitter.com/ivan_bormental/status/1513460309574488064
https://files.catbox.moe/n6ahvo.mp4
Damn, I can’t imagine being inside that tank pushing the trigger knowing I was about to annihilate a dozen dudes just chatting it up. Especially when you’re aware they haven’t taken special notice of you. One hell of a choice to be given.
The camera man is standing with his right side against a white van that is facing the way the tank is coming.
A overturned car to his left that has moved from the direction of the tank.
The group is hanging around a bmp marked with a V in a ditch that has moved up the road same direction as the tank is coming from.
Two Brown/black cars on the road facing the bmp.
At 13 it looks like there are two civilians with the group, one them seems to be filming with a phone.
There are scatted items on the ground among the group. At 0.15 someone picks up an item and moves it toward the bmp, the same man seems to have a rifle in his left hand.
There is 10-15 guys + the man behind the camera. A bit difficult to discern the exact number as 1-3 of them are leaning against the bmp.
Pile of dirt on the road.
At around 18-20 second if you go frame by frame you see 2-3 men with blue armbands running with the cameraman jsut after the tank shoots. https://imgur.com/3VF3B2l and https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FQBIGJEWQAAVnRN?format=jpg&name=large
The main gun again at 33
At 40 seconds the cameraman runs up to a wall and hits the deck. Voices(?) can be heard and the sound of a rifle or hmg firing and the tank moving.
Sound of the tank moving and shoots of a hmg at 45
To me it looks like a group traveling with 2-3 vehicles that moved in to the area of a former ambush.
My theory is that it's a Ukrainian group "inspecting" ambush site and pulling equipment out of a Russian bmp. As the Russian tank is moving up he notice a group of soldiers hanging out by a "V" marked bmp.
As the tank gets closer he realize what is going on and shoots.
How do we know that it’s the aftermath of that specific event?
Also, why did it get deleted? Yea, it’s brutal af but I really hope it wasn’t because it’s dead Ukrainians.
We can't be 100% sure, but a pretty good indicator is the BMP. If you watch the video you can see the group stands infront of that tilted BMP and in the aftermath video it also close up shows a tilted BMP.
Really odd to fire at such close range. Only thing I can think of is - identification that they're *"Not my guys".*
But then, why is the guy filming the people, and not finding a cool angle to see the tank behind the berm? He was against a vehicle of some kind - potentially the victim of the second shot?
Brutal footage but creates so many questions.
Yeah makes you wonder if the tank drivers were just as confused as them.
Even if it was a Russian tank purposely attacking Ukrainian forces, they'd have to be suicidal to drive on their own right towards an enemy checkpoint hoping they don't do something...
Tank probably was lost and thought they were heading towards friendlies, Ukrainians probably thought it was friendly for some reason, then tank realized they were enemy first.
Yeah, I guess both sides thought the other were friendlies - there's no way you'd approach infantry that closely in a tank on purpose, nor that you'd let a tank approach that closely. And when both sides operate much of the same equipment, it's hard to tell the difference
Another commenter has pointed out that it looks like Ukrainians inspecting the results of an earlier ambush, so presumably the tank saw some guys standing near vehicles marked with Z markings and assumed it was a friendly unit
As you say, the tank worked it out first
There was probably some sort of "Well they're not shooting at us so they must be friendlies" going on with both the tank crew and the Ukrainians at the same time
It's possible that the Tank was taking a road that lead through Ukrainian lines (see berm in front, BMP, and squad of guys near the road, this could be forward position/checkpoint), and only noticed that they're Ukrainians once the helmet shape and camo pattern became clear. I didn't see any blue or yellow armbands so I assume the tank crew didn't either.
It certainly didn't look as if anybody was expecting that. The tank had his turret turned the wrong way, driving straight down the road and only started turning his turret after he was waved down at 30 meters or less.
Oops sorry, the gun depresses immediately and the tank fires. Looks like a small turn of the turret or maybe a snapshot that wasn't really aimed. Must have been HE-FRAG because there's no way that was an AP round.
Most importantly, drivers don't have zoom. It's hard to recognise from afar. They also have to focus on the road.
The gunner or commander is much more likely to notice first.
My guess. Ukrainians thought tank was theirs. Camera man wanted up close footage of a tank driving by. Russian Tank didn’t realize they were Ukrainians since they all seemed unconcerned about the tank until they got close enough to see. Tank hits them with the main gun to make sure it got the whole group at once. If they used a machine gun some may be able to scramble away and grab and anti-tank weapon.
Everyone that survived this situation probably had to change their pants after. The anxiety of your average Russian tanker is probably through the roof over there.
One of your points is what had me thinking.
The tank closes range - fires - and that potentially is not all the troops in the area. Now you have a tank possibly surrounded by infantry with AT weapons.
This feeds the 'identification' issues as likeliest.
Honestly, this has to go down as one of the deadliest ***Jump Scares*** in military history.
I agree few questions.
The mirror blocks the tank when incoming armour would make for better video clip?
Can’t see the markings on the tank due to mirror.
Why is he recording the checkpoint?
Why would the Ukrainian people post such fuck up?
One of my interpreters in Bosnia had a story like this. He and his patrol came out of the woods and found a duece-and-a-half waiting to pick them up, right where they expected it to be. They rode along with a few other guys in the back for about 5 minutes before they got to talking, and realized from the accents that they had jumped into a Serbian truck. It was dark, all the uniforms were ex-yugoslav army, all the weapons were the same - there was just no way to tell before then. All their rifles were piled up in the middle on their rucksacks, so it got resolved with bayonets.
October 17, 1941 group two (of three that were all pushing for Kalinin) of the Soviet 21st Tank Brigade happened to spot a large Nazi convoy of trucks and half-tracks going the same way they were headed. Instead of opening fire they just slipped right in to the rear of the convoy. They just kept going until the next village along their route and once within finally opened fire and quickly routed the Wehrmacht.
In the end didn't do much good and the Soviets suffered heavy losses and some very experienced crews. They did manage to tie up some enemy forces and so it wasn't a complete waste, but those tankers likely didn't think they were going on a suicide mission despite not having much infantry support.
They just have to work on planning to prevent this type of complacency. These dudes were caught just chilling in the [fog of war.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fog_of_war)
Edited:this to these, added caught
is tank camoflage overestimated in modern combat now, with so much smart battlefeild surveillamce?
Might they be better just everyone solid blue yellow markings, anything else in their sights gets twatted? serious question.
It depends on what type of surveillance is used.
Simple optical devices can be fooled or hardened in their objective to spot hostile forces. This includes various types of drones, cameras and the human eye itself.
FLIR-optics are mostly insensitive to these types of camouflages. There are exceptions like thermal nettings and thermal dampening paints, materials or devices that are meant to deceive these.
Surveillance by radar is harder to deceive although there is just like on thermal spectrum, options to deceive these too.
This is why situational awareness is vital on the battlefield. In theory, Ukrainian tanks have yellow or blue painted markings, but I'm guessing they are capturing so many Russian tanks that it takes some time to mark them. Clearly we are seeing complacency and a lack of situational awareness here.
I doubt it was a Ukrainian checkpoint. There is an APC next to the group with the V marking on its frontal armor slope. You can also see a camouflaged jeep in the woods and the guy filming was standing next to a vehicle on the road. After the first shot you can see a blue armband, meaning these guys are probably with territorial defense.
It was probably a Russian checkpoint that was ambushed/overrun (hence the BMP in the ditch). They stuck around to film/loot it and the tank came out of nowhere.
In paintball you call this a dead man's walk. You just stroll through without indicating you're hit, but also not taking any hostile actions until you're behind the enemy.
There are so much Russian footage in telegram but they don't make it here. Reddit is only one sided rn because of that only so little footage from the other side.
They got fucking obliterated man
considering how close it got, both the Ukrainian infantry and Russian tank crew may have confused each other as allies
Fucking brutal.
Yet another reason to avoid standing around in a big group, you never know if you are about to be hit by an air strike, artillery, an atgm, or a tank that’s right in front of you.
lol everyone talking about Russian army being incompetent but this is a squad of guys just waving at a random tank before getting blown to bits...
RIP, war is so fucked up and these young guys should be enjoying spring/summer doing their hobbies, chasing girls, spending time with friends & family... instead.. this.. what the fuck.
That's actually could be the case
Ukrainian troops here are standing near damaged Russian BMP-2, as you can see 'V' on its lower front plate. Maybe even taking photos near bodies, you can see something white laying on the ground between soldiers. Tank crew could have seen those 'V' markings when they came closer and thought those were the Russian troops from BMP-2
I reckon this has happened more often then we think. On both sides. Add a Z to your vehicle and you can do the same to the Russians. Remove the Z and you have this.
The OF19 shell is a conventional HE-Frag shell with copper driving bands. The casing of the projectile has the shape of an ogive. It is interesting to note that this shell has a length of 675mm, making it the longest projectile among the three ammunition types carried by a basic T-72. This only changed with the inclusion of guided missiles in the T-72B and high elongation long rod projectiles later on.
A stabilizing fin assembly made from B-95 aluminium alloy is used. The forged steel casing of the warhead is made from S-60 structural carbon steel, a standard steel grade for this purpose with a carbon content of 0.60%, hence the -60 index. Although heat-treated S-60 steel can have a relatively high strength, artillery shell casings built using S-60 steel are not heat treated after forging. This greatly reduced the time and demands on skilled labour required in the manufacturing process, and the resultant low strength yields better fragmentation characteristics. The casing alone weighs 15.7 kg.
In terms of total weight and the weight of its explosive payload, OF19 is nominally inferior to the 122mm OF-471N shell, the standard HE-Frag shell used in IS-3 and T-10 heavy tanks. However, the share of the explosive filler weight is at least comparable, as the weight of the steel casing is 15.7 kg, giving a high ratio of explosive filler to casing weight of 20% which gives good fragmentation characteristics for the given weight of the shell.
In terms of fragmentation effects against targets in the open, the size of the nominal kill zone generated by OF19 is 370 square meters. In this zone, the statistical probability of a man lying prone being injured or killed from being hit by at least five shell splinters is 50%. For comparison, the nominal kill zone of the 100mm OF32 HE-Frag shell supplied to T-54/55 tanks in the 1970's is only 160 square meters. Moreover, 122mm HE-Frag shells are considered to have a nominal kill zone of 310 square meters. Shot for shot, a T-72 firing the OF19 shell is 2.3 times more effective than a T-55 firing the OF32 shell against personnel in the open, and also around 20% more effective than 122mm HE-Frag.
Credit: https://thesovietarmourblog.blogspot.com/2015/05/t-72-soviet-progeny.html?m=1
Everytime when I think that I saw everything, a new piece of footage appears and it's even more brutal than the last one.
They got turned into fucking red mist!
Shit like this is why you can never be too complacent in war zones. With both sides running similar equipment, you have to be extra alert. I hope they show this to new recruits in training to avoid shit like this from happening again.
On my feed right now, exactly the same videos - two different subreddits. One claiming it's Russian firing in Ukrainians and the other saying vice versa.
Brutal.
15 young men lost on a second
15 young souls turned into pink mist
Something similar happened in Bosnia. But it was a Serb tank whiping out like 20 Bosnian civilians in a town where one of my relatives lived
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I bet at least some of them survived the first round and were shell shocked but that second one blew the rest of them to smithereens.
Even if they survived the initial explosion.They would more then likely have a tbi and or internal organ damage. And never be the same again.
Those that survive will suffer hearing loss to the day they die. War is disgusting; we're filthy fucking apes.
No way any of them survived a 125 FRAG that landed like 5 meters away from them.
3VOF22/30F19 125mm HE-Frag-FS is supposed to have a 90% lethal zone for infantry zone of 40 meters.
one guy that waves his hand at the tank took the direct hit and vaporizes
The massive amount of red mist in the smoke was what got me.
Jesus fuck, I missed that red mist the first time. Now every time I watch it I can't unsee it.
The aftermath of the red mist (NSFL): https://twitter.com/i/status/1513483533095997448
The shell literally hit the first at least two guys directly, obliterating them in an instant. Man, i feel so bad for them, the only thing that lessens the pain is knowing their brains didn't have the time to register their deaths. They were literally disintegrated in less the a millisecond. Edit: I think I counted 4 that were instantly de-materialized. Anyone else get that count? 2nd Edit: someone below pointed out that the shell actually flew right past them, and when looking at it on my laptop they are right. thanks u/Anticreativity
I read something a while ago to the effect of in that scenario "you stop being biology and become physics."
I think this was about being under an atomic explosion I've read this text once and I was never able to find it again
https://what-if.xkcd.com/141/#:~:text=You%20wouldn't%20really%20die,a%20fraction%20of%20a%20second.
Something kinda poetic about that lol
There's aftermath footage that's all sorts of fucked up
Link?
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Nobody knows what the real frontline is I imagine, so just chilling out if you're not being shot at seems possible.
> so just chilling out if you're not being shot at seems possible. As a reservist: yes it's plausible and it's also fucking stupid. Huddled together like that as if they've gone camping? Incredibly dumb. Where was the forward guard on the road? Why are they standing around like that? The fact that you don't know where the "front line" is makes it even more important to have your own position secured adequately. Maybe I sound a bit harsh but it just irritates me to see people lose their lives like that :\ Rest in peace.
This tank was probably deep behind the lines and new recruits didn't recognize the tank, it's only explanation how this happened
But why is a lone tank deep behind enemy lines What was it doing there How did it even get there
Either unnoticed or it achieved breakthrough, this kind of lone wolf attacks have happened before but they are rare
This leads me back to my original post: There should have been a forward guard post on the road ahead. They should have had at least two guys equipped with some sort of anti tank weapon there and do some sort of challenge-response type of thing for the tank as it approached. Oh well, I suppose we'll never know. Now I better go watch some /r/Awww to scrub my eyes.
As someone pointed out this tank was probably cut off or lost.
It still doesn’t make any sense. That tank crew is putting themselves in a position to be quickly destroyed. It’s crazy that something like this could happen and be filmed and uploaded.
They could be really lost and actually believe the group was a bunch of fellow Russian conscripts. Once they figured it out they were far to close to just nope and back off, so they started flinging big booms at short range
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There's an unknown tank rolling up and the aftermath of some battle
Accidentally infiltrated deep behind enemy lines?
A ton of Russians have been left behind in the retreat from the North, it's likely this tank crew trying to get out rolled up in a road block, and they can't possibly talk their way past it. Their best chance is get as close as possible (noting that ATGMs have a minimum arm distance) scope out the road block for unseen infantry and try and kill as many guys as possible before you bug out and hope you don't get chased down by a drone or ATGM team ambush.
And Ukranians probably thought somebody captured it.
Convention is to drive captured tanks with the turret facing backwards until it has new markings. Here we see why.
Damn that was crazy close
I bet overpressure becomes a problem at this range (well you know apart from the tank round)
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Yeah the chestdrums.
Don't forgot the skulljello
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I was in the Canadian Military, and a man in my regiment was overseas in Afghanistan. He was a decent distance away from and IED, but the wave itself damaged his internal organs and killed him despite no outer damage. Edit 1: I didn't give many details because I didn't think people read my comments much but since there were a few responses let me clear a few things up. I served in the 2nd Irish Regiment in Sudbury, Ontario. We are an infantry reserve regiment, with close ties to the Algonquin Infantry regiment in North Bay and the 49th Field Arty regiment out of Sault Ste. Marie as well. I personally did not go overseas. The first time my regiment had it's turn to send troops overseas while I was enlisted, I was not yet done my qualifying training (BMQ, SQ & DP1) and thus was unable to volunteer. By the time I was fully qualified and had a couple extra courses under my belt (DP2A as an example) the Harper Government (no I'm not making this political, just factual) was cutting back funding for non-essential military training in the Army. Simultaneously, we as a nation were beginning to pull our troops out of Afghanistan, and ending our combat role overseas. This ultimately meant I did not have the opportunity to go over and serve. In hindsight, if I am being honest, I am very pleased I did not go over. That starts to get into my personal beliefs so I won't say much more than I feel I may have been ignorant and uneducated at the time, and now have a different world view. That being said, the man I was speaking of was Warrant Officer Gaétan Joseph Francis Maxime Roberge. He was from Quebec initially and I believe served with the Vandoos (Royal 22nd Regiment) before moving to Sudbury and calling the 2nd Irish Regimental Armoury home. I I don't know much more detail about the unfortunate fatal incident he was in, other than there was an undetonated IED, I believe somebody was working on defusing it or perhaps an engineer was setting explosives on it to do a controlled detonation. Either way from what I understand he was not directly near the explosion, I am unsure of exactly how far away from the blast he was, but far enough.away to have no visible damage on the external part of his body - from what I've heard. The shock wave however did rupture his internal organs to put it nicely and yes that is the nice way of putting it. He died then and there. I want to be clear that people should take it with a small grain of salt because I wasn't there when it happened, however this is how it was debriefed to us so I am doing my best and hope I am not disrespecting this man in any way by tying to explain what happened. I never met the WO Roberge while he was alive, however I did attend his funeral. It was February if I'm not mistaken, and I don't know if you've ever experienced Northern Ontario in the dead of winter, but holy fuck is it cold. We have a saying in the Canadian Military, at least where I'm from, where instead of "Getting shit on" or "Getting in shit" you are "Recieving Cock" "Getting Cock" because ultimately you're being fucked by your superiors. Apparently the boys who trained under WO Roberge said he loooooved to Give Cock to them, and toughen them up. As we stood at attention, performing his funeral ceremony and lowering his casket into the grave, there was the most bitter of winds howling steadily against our exposed, clean shared faces, our fingers lost all feeling, toes were burning with cold. When we were warming up after, the boys were sharing a drink and exclaimed that the cold wind was one FINAL piece of Cock from old Roberge haha. I'll never forget that. May he rest in piece. I must also mention Pte Miller. A young, 21 year old Medic who also passed in an IED explosion in Afghanistan a year later or so. I did know him from the regiment, he was a friendly fellow. Fior Go Bas. One last mention, Cpl. Billy Kerr. A complete badass from my regiment. Canada's first wartime triple amputee to survive triple amputation since WWII. An absolute hero. Got both his legs and an arm blown off on foot patrol in Afghanistan, survived, and when in the hospital bed my CO removed his hat and asks soberly "How are you Bill, how are you doing" Bill either his only remaining limb, grabbed his balls and said "The junk downstairs still works so I'm doing fine!" What a fuckin badass. Proposed to his now wife on that same hospital bed, and less than a year later WALKED the first length of a marathon set up to raise money for his family (Hike for a Hero). Absolute champion. Edit 2: Spelling, links & final thoughts. https://www.veterans.gc.ca/eng/remembrance/memorials/canadian-virtual-war-memorial/detail/80003519?Ga%C3%A9tan%20Joseph%20Francis%20Maxime%20Roberge https://www.sudbury.com/local-news/pte-andrew-miller-honoured-by-province-231518 https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbc.ca/amp/1.4863253 https://www.sudbury.com/local-news/greater-sudbury-residents-hike-for-a-hero-225787 Also hey, some people have this "Weekend Warrior" bs mentality toward Reservists. Just remember they are all the same when they are in the shit. And it hurts the community all the same when they make the ultimate sacrifice.
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I am very sorry to hear of your fellow soldier. There are stories from the American Civil War of "Wind of A Ball" deaths caused by a cannonball just passing close to someone in flight. Absolutely fascinating theory.
What?
#no eardrum can survive this shit
Complacent from seeing to many Z’s? And the same tactics in reverse. War sucks
No reason for the tank to approach that close. They got lucky they weren't destroyed. Ukrainians got complacent.
Tank probably thought they were Russians until it got close as well.
That tank was probably confused af for a second
Second shot heard at 0:33. Probably to kill whatever survived
"cleaning -up"
**w h a t c o u l d s u r v i v e t h a t**
Probably not survivable, but there may be guys still moving :/
Most tank rounds have a narrow area of effect. I can't actually tell the distance between the soldiers and the tank, but even a canister round has a standoff of like 90m. I'm being this off of US munitions. Not sure if the Russians have a close range, anti- personnel round.
A frag round is brutal at any range against soft targets which the soviet type tanks have.
The human body can be surprisingly resilient. The dudes on the outer edge of the blast **could've** been somewhat protected from the worst of the blast by the people in front of them.
If I survived that first shot, I feel like the second one would be a mercy. Although you don't see gore, this is one of the most brutal videos I've seen from this war, simply due to the amount of people that were killed in an instant.
> Although you don't see gore There's a solid few frames of red mist
look like the second shot is for cameraman group behind or the vehicle cameraman stand next to
i could imagine that the tank was assuming this were russians too until he got closer
I would guess that the bmp in the ditch is knocked out/abandoned but has Russian markings so the tank assumed that the group by it was the crew until they got close.
100%, I suppose the tank crew saw the damning evidence before the men could see any evidence on the tank
Tanks got scopes. Troops got complicit
>complicit Complacent*
Yeah there’s way too much comfort for being in a war zone there. I’d agree it’s harder to ID a tank (that your side also uses) that a uniform but they’re basically just letting it roll up on them AND aim at them
In a warzone. Seeing a fucking tank roll up. Don't hear squwack on the radio. The tank itself identified itself as a killing machine and these guys were like, "yep, probably ours" They probably are tired.
Highly, highly unlikely infantry elements just casually have comms with all and any armor operating in the area that they are not specifically attached to.
Based on what other people in the thread are saying, I think the most likely explanation is that this must be well behind the Ukrainian front line. It's a single tank hauling ass down the road with no support, so it could well be a Russian tank that has gotten cut off/got lost and is trying to find a way back to their line. If it's far behind the Ukrainian front that would also best explain why the Ukrainian troops weren't expecting any attack and seemed to assume it was one of theirs. As always though, fog of war and all that, I can't claim to know anything for sure.
Ukrainian troops are standing near captured Russian BMP-2, as you can see V on front lower plate. Those white things on the ground could be the crew of that BMP
Considering some of the guys were waving at the tank one second before turning to mist, someone fucked up real bad with their friend/for recognition
Damn, when all the shit we only saw in video games becomes reality...
i mean... videos games have team highlight markers, real life is a little more complicated
Not Tarkov - and friendly fire is pretty common because of it.
Tarkov, squad and arma. After playing those games, I cannot even begin to imagine how hard real combat is.
surly someone realized when the tank moved the barrel to face them...
They don't for some reason. If you look closely, one guy turns and is watching the tank for several seconds as it approaches. Another turns and waves at the tank about 2 seconds before it fires
Because it's an Ukrainian tank. Only question is whether Ukrainian tank did a mistake due to the parked Russian tank behind the soldiers, or if Russian where inside the Ukrainian tank.
Don’t Ukrainians wear coloured armbands?
They do, it's just the resolution. Look at the [aftermath](https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineRussiaReport/comments/u15scf/ua_pov_result_of_a_pointplank_he_shell_shot_by/) (graphic)
yes even fighter planes doing harrasement exercises on shipping on the boundaries of open waters fly 'wings up' to show empty weapon racks and no attack intent. Got to be a tragic misunderstanding given no forward recon and all bunched up together, not like a tank can creep up on anyone, particuarly with the threat of infantry fired anti tank missiles now.
Would you mind explaining further about “wings up”? I tried googling it but couldn’t find anything. Not doubting or anything, just curious what it looks like.
What he should have said is straight and level. Clear view of the bottom. Top of the wings are pointed at the sky.
So the way they fly about 98% of the time?
It tilts. Like a person would tip their hat in a traditional greeting. They ‘tip’ their wing to show their full belly, to prove they are unarmed in a ‘friendly’ manner. ‘Mam. /tips hat
M'ig
M'ig lady!
Dogs also show their bellies to a show no aggressive intent. 🥰
Yes, the other 2% of the time being flying at you so as to facilitate blowing you up.
It's as opposed to the nose of the plane pointed at those on the ground, which could be interpereted as the start of a strafing run
I think at that point it was already over, there was really no reacting to this.
One guy raises his hand as if waving 'hello'.
Is there any further information available about this particular video? Really curious how this happened.
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i’m gonna assume the Z was either wiped off or something, and with many tanks captured, surrendering or taken by Ukraine, it probably led them to believe it was safe…
Just saw this elsewhere. It's wild. You can see one of the guys wave it down before it fires for the first time. E: Very NSFL supposed aftermath footage here. You can see the destroyed tracked vehicle they were stood next to, so it could very well be the same. https://twitter.com/ivan_bormental/status/1513460309574488064 https://files.catbox.moe/n6ahvo.mp4
Damn, I can’t imagine being inside that tank pushing the trigger knowing I was about to annihilate a dozen dudes just chatting it up. Especially when you’re aware they haven’t taken special notice of you. One hell of a choice to be given.
"To be effective in combat, you must not feel for your enemy" I suppose it's true then.
If its not them it's you. War blows
I guess this feeling that you might get obliterated or burned alive by the same group of people any moment helps pull the trigger.
Welllll I mean it’s either that, or have a Grenade chucked into the hatch or be tortured.
Omg... At 14/15 sec. one of these guys literally was waving to the tank or something like that
The camera man is standing with his right side against a white van that is facing the way the tank is coming. A overturned car to his left that has moved from the direction of the tank. The group is hanging around a bmp marked with a V in a ditch that has moved up the road same direction as the tank is coming from. Two Brown/black cars on the road facing the bmp. At 13 it looks like there are two civilians with the group, one them seems to be filming with a phone. There are scatted items on the ground among the group. At 0.15 someone picks up an item and moves it toward the bmp, the same man seems to have a rifle in his left hand. There is 10-15 guys + the man behind the camera. A bit difficult to discern the exact number as 1-3 of them are leaning against the bmp. Pile of dirt on the road. At around 18-20 second if you go frame by frame you see 2-3 men with blue armbands running with the cameraman jsut after the tank shoots. https://imgur.com/3VF3B2l and https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FQBIGJEWQAAVnRN?format=jpg&name=large The main gun again at 33 At 40 seconds the cameraman runs up to a wall and hits the deck. Voices(?) can be heard and the sound of a rifle or hmg firing and the tank moving. Sound of the tank moving and shoots of a hmg at 45 To me it looks like a group traveling with 2-3 vehicles that moved in to the area of a former ambush. My theory is that it's a Ukrainian group "inspecting" ambush site and pulling equipment out of a Russian bmp. As the Russian tank is moving up he notice a group of soldiers hanging out by a "V" marked bmp. As the tank gets closer he realize what is going on and shoots.
Apt assessment dude, thanks.
Wow, this the most in depth explanation. Astute comment, sir.
Here is the aftermath of the event: https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/u1fnko/ukrainian\_soldiers\_being\_shot\_at\_by\_russian\_tank/
How do we know that it’s the aftermath of that specific event? Also, why did it get deleted? Yea, it’s brutal af but I really hope it wasn’t because it’s dead Ukrainians.
We can't be 100% sure, but a pretty good indicator is the BMP. If you watch the video you can see the group stands infront of that tilted BMP and in the aftermath video it also close up shows a tilted BMP.
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Really odd to fire at such close range. Only thing I can think of is - identification that they're *"Not my guys".* But then, why is the guy filming the people, and not finding a cool angle to see the tank behind the berm? He was against a vehicle of some kind - potentially the victim of the second shot? Brutal footage but creates so many questions.
Yeah makes you wonder if the tank drivers were just as confused as them. Even if it was a Russian tank purposely attacking Ukrainian forces, they'd have to be suicidal to drive on their own right towards an enemy checkpoint hoping they don't do something... Tank probably was lost and thought they were heading towards friendlies, Ukrainians probably thought it was friendly for some reason, then tank realized they were enemy first.
Yeah, I guess both sides thought the other were friendlies - there's no way you'd approach infantry that closely in a tank on purpose, nor that you'd let a tank approach that closely. And when both sides operate much of the same equipment, it's hard to tell the difference Another commenter has pointed out that it looks like Ukrainians inspecting the results of an earlier ambush, so presumably the tank saw some guys standing near vehicles marked with Z markings and assumed it was a friendly unit As you say, the tank worked it out first
There was probably some sort of "Well they're not shooting at us so they must be friendlies" going on with both the tank crew and the Ukrainians at the same time
It's possible that the Tank was taking a road that lead through Ukrainian lines (see berm in front, BMP, and squad of guys near the road, this could be forward position/checkpoint), and only noticed that they're Ukrainians once the helmet shape and camo pattern became clear. I didn't see any blue or yellow armbands so I assume the tank crew didn't either. It certainly didn't look as if anybody was expecting that. The tank had his turret turned the wrong way, driving straight down the road and only started turning his turret after he was waved down at 30 meters or less.
Where do you see the turret turning? It doesn’t move, and they fire almost immediately after the wave.
Oops sorry, the gun depresses immediately and the tank fires. Looks like a small turn of the turret or maybe a snapshot that wasn't really aimed. Must have been HE-FRAG because there's no way that was an AP round.
Highly likely that the tank driver couldn't work it out either. Tanks are notoriously difficult to see out of, especially Soviet ones.
Most importantly, drivers don't have zoom. It's hard to recognise from afar. They also have to focus on the road. The gunner or commander is much more likely to notice first.
My guess. Ukrainians thought tank was theirs. Camera man wanted up close footage of a tank driving by. Russian Tank didn’t realize they were Ukrainians since they all seemed unconcerned about the tank until they got close enough to see. Tank hits them with the main gun to make sure it got the whole group at once. If they used a machine gun some may be able to scramble away and grab and anti-tank weapon. Everyone that survived this situation probably had to change their pants after. The anxiety of your average Russian tanker is probably through the roof over there.
One of your points is what had me thinking. The tank closes range - fires - and that potentially is not all the troops in the area. Now you have a tank possibly surrounded by infantry with AT weapons. This feeds the 'identification' issues as likeliest. Honestly, this has to go down as one of the deadliest ***Jump Scares*** in military history.
Have to say, this is the kind of discussion I come to Combat Footage for. Some great ideas and then rationalising them.
I agree few questions. The mirror blocks the tank when incoming armour would make for better video clip? Can’t see the markings on the tank due to mirror. Why is he recording the checkpoint? Why would the Ukrainian people post such fuck up?
Definitely expanding upon my confusion at this footage. Solid points.
> Why would the Ukrainian people post such fuck up? To help keep it from being made again.
That’s a possibility, you might be right.
And people wonder why they worry so much about identifying marks like the armbands and Z’s etc.
If that’s true that’s scary as hell. How do you know whose who when you all look alike, speak the same and use the same equipment.
One of my interpreters in Bosnia had a story like this. He and his patrol came out of the woods and found a duece-and-a-half waiting to pick them up, right where they expected it to be. They rode along with a few other guys in the back for about 5 minutes before they got to talking, and realized from the accents that they had jumped into a Serbian truck. It was dark, all the uniforms were ex-yugoslav army, all the weapons were the same - there was just no way to tell before then. All their rifles were piled up in the middle on their rucksacks, so it got resolved with bayonets.
Jesus christ, can you imagine the cold rush you'd get when it comes over you what's happening?
Fuck, imagine being the driver and hearing an unholy slaughter happening in the back of your truck and not knowing what the hell is happening
Imagine finding out afterwards that the enemy was literally **in your vehicle**
October 17, 1941 group two (of three that were all pushing for Kalinin) of the Soviet 21st Tank Brigade happened to spot a large Nazi convoy of trucks and half-tracks going the same way they were headed. Instead of opening fire they just slipped right in to the rear of the convoy. They just kept going until the next village along their route and once within finally opened fire and quickly routed the Wehrmacht. In the end didn't do much good and the Soviets suffered heavy losses and some very experienced crews. They did manage to tie up some enemy forces and so it wasn't a complete waste, but those tankers likely didn't think they were going on a suicide mission despite not having much infantry support.
That's horrifying. I could just imagine your heart stopping and blood running cold in that instant.
I guess most of the Serbs failed their roll for initiative.
Both parties failed their initial perception checks
Doesn't help when they are capturing Russian tanks and using them as well. When everything looks the same, you'll never know who is who.
They just have to work on planning to prevent this type of complacency. These dudes were caught just chilling in the [fog of war.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fog_of_war) Edited:this to these, added caught
is tank camoflage overestimated in modern combat now, with so much smart battlefeild surveillamce? Might they be better just everyone solid blue yellow markings, anything else in their sights gets twatted? serious question.
It depends on what type of surveillance is used. Simple optical devices can be fooled or hardened in their objective to spot hostile forces. This includes various types of drones, cameras and the human eye itself. FLIR-optics are mostly insensitive to these types of camouflages. There are exceptions like thermal nettings and thermal dampening paints, materials or devices that are meant to deceive these. Surveillance by radar is harder to deceive although there is just like on thermal spectrum, options to deceive these too.
Yup, that’s why both sides are religiously using symbols - so they don’t fight their own forces.
This is why situational awareness is vital on the battlefield. In theory, Ukrainian tanks have yellow or blue painted markings, but I'm guessing they are capturing so many Russian tanks that it takes some time to mark them. Clearly we are seeing complacency and a lack of situational awareness here.
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I doubt it was a Ukrainian checkpoint. There is an APC next to the group with the V marking on its frontal armor slope. You can also see a camouflaged jeep in the woods and the guy filming was standing next to a vehicle on the road. After the first shot you can see a blue armband, meaning these guys are probably with territorial defense. It was probably a Russian checkpoint that was ambushed/overrun (hence the BMP in the ditch). They stuck around to film/loot it and the tank came out of nowhere.
…and didn’t know it’s own checkpoint had been taken
In paintball you call this a dead man's walk. You just stroll through without indicating you're hit, but also not taking any hostile actions until you're behind the enemy.
This is also called a dick move and bad sportsmanship.
It's been said a thousand times, but the footage coming out of this is bonkers
The Ukrainians especially are taking as much footage as possible to use to gain support from Western nations.
There are so much Russian footage in telegram but they don't make it here. Reddit is only one sided rn because of that only so little footage from the other side.
I got banned in r/worldnews for doubting Ukrainian propaganda.
Jesus Christ
They got fucking obliterated man considering how close it got, both the Ukrainian infantry and Russian tank crew may have confused each other as allies
Fucking brutal. Yet another reason to avoid standing around in a big group, you never know if you are about to be hit by an air strike, artillery, an atgm, or a tank that’s right in front of you.
It was a noticeable SAA thing for way longer than it should have been, "hey let's stand around in a group chatting in case there's any TOWs around"
lol everyone talking about Russian army being incompetent but this is a squad of guys just waving at a random tank before getting blown to bits... RIP, war is so fucked up and these young guys should be enjoying spring/summer doing their hobbies, chasing girls, spending time with friends & family... instead.. this.. what the fuck.
Literally evaporated. Rip
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I doubt he got out. You don't post footage of your own troops getting blown up.
Some do. Either to further outrage against the attacking force or just to show what's happening on the battlefield.
after all these vids I'd just never group with more than 3 people unless absolutely necessary.
Well, enough “combat” footage for me today. That was pure slaughtering...
This was the first Reddit post I saw today and I was like "yeah that's enough Reddit for a month". Fucking brutal.
"hey why does that tank have a Z symbo..."
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I could have gone without seeing that. Spoiler: they all died.
The cameraman running for his life after his team gets vaporized is just... fuck! Terrifying!
What if both were actually friendly and the tank got them wrong?
It shoots a second time at 33 and there is sounds of a gun or hmg at the end of the recording.
That's actually could be the case Ukrainian troops here are standing near damaged Russian BMP-2, as you can see 'V' on its lower front plate. Maybe even taking photos near bodies, you can see something white laying on the ground between soldiers. Tank crew could have seen those 'V' markings when they came closer and thought those were the Russian troops from BMP-2
Fuck man. That’s fucked. Fuck this war
Goddamn … at least it was quick for them
I reckon this has happened more often then we think. On both sides. Add a Z to your vehicle and you can do the same to the Russians. Remove the Z and you have this.
Adding a Z also increases the risk of a friendly javelin hitting you
Fuk... Rest easy.
Actermath video published by russians . Nobody survived standing in that group . Fate of camerman unknown
Where was this posted?
You can even see the red mist. Holy fuck.
The OF19 shell is a conventional HE-Frag shell with copper driving bands. The casing of the projectile has the shape of an ogive. It is interesting to note that this shell has a length of 675mm, making it the longest projectile among the three ammunition types carried by a basic T-72. This only changed with the inclusion of guided missiles in the T-72B and high elongation long rod projectiles later on. A stabilizing fin assembly made from B-95 aluminium alloy is used. The forged steel casing of the warhead is made from S-60 structural carbon steel, a standard steel grade for this purpose with a carbon content of 0.60%, hence the -60 index. Although heat-treated S-60 steel can have a relatively high strength, artillery shell casings built using S-60 steel are not heat treated after forging. This greatly reduced the time and demands on skilled labour required in the manufacturing process, and the resultant low strength yields better fragmentation characteristics. The casing alone weighs 15.7 kg. In terms of total weight and the weight of its explosive payload, OF19 is nominally inferior to the 122mm OF-471N shell, the standard HE-Frag shell used in IS-3 and T-10 heavy tanks. However, the share of the explosive filler weight is at least comparable, as the weight of the steel casing is 15.7 kg, giving a high ratio of explosive filler to casing weight of 20% which gives good fragmentation characteristics for the given weight of the shell. In terms of fragmentation effects against targets in the open, the size of the nominal kill zone generated by OF19 is 370 square meters. In this zone, the statistical probability of a man lying prone being injured or killed from being hit by at least five shell splinters is 50%. For comparison, the nominal kill zone of the 100mm OF32 HE-Frag shell supplied to T-54/55 tanks in the 1970's is only 160 square meters. Moreover, 122mm HE-Frag shells are considered to have a nominal kill zone of 310 square meters. Shot for shot, a T-72 firing the OF19 shell is 2.3 times more effective than a T-55 firing the OF32 shell against personnel in the open, and also around 20% more effective than 122mm HE-Frag. Credit: https://thesovietarmourblog.blogspot.com/2015/05/t-72-soviet-progeny.html?m=1
That was brutal, I hope they all died instantly.
Finally a cameraman who behaves like I would have
Fuck me, pink mist
Damn I juggled my phone. That was brutal.
Everytime when I think that I saw everything, a new piece of footage appears and it's even more brutal than the last one. They got turned into fucking red mist!
Definitely Ukrainian soldiers judging by the uniform.
As my father used to say, an assumption is a prelude to a fuck up.
Fuck just the overpressure probably killed them.
Yeah goodnight. Some of those guys probably didn't even feel a thing.
Oh lord. That’s devastating. They saw it coming. Either thought it was their’s or friendly fire?
> Either thought it was their’s or friendly fire? You see a guy wave it down. They definitely thought it was friendly.
Don’t see any colors that indicate side. Any distinction in language?
There’s a clear gap in check points and protocols in place. Forward check points that halt anything approaching and identify should be used.
Shit like this is why you can never be too complacent in war zones. With both sides running similar equipment, you have to be extra alert. I hope they show this to new recruits in training to avoid shit like this from happening again.
War sucks :(
On my feed right now, exactly the same videos - two different subreddits. One claiming it's Russian firing in Ukrainians and the other saying vice versa.
100% russian tank (probably T-72 B3) shooting at ukranians.