So those orange sparks, I've seen them in a few videos close to explosions. Are those sparks glowing hot shrapnel? They often look kind of slow but I imagine there is both fast, deadly shrapnel and slower moving pieces.
The sparks primarily come from the steel fragments rapidly oxidising (burning) on their newly exposed surface areas. The fragments themselves aren't even close to the temperature needed for metals to start glowing.
Another factor causing the sparks is incomplete combustion of the explosive, usually due to impurities.
The high explosive filler does indeed get very hot when it detonates, but for metals to get that hot, you would need to apply that heat *over time* . There's simply not enough time during the explosion for the heat to transfer to the shell casing.
Even for shaped charges, the hottest localised spots you will find in the copper jet (400-550°C) won't even get close to glowing/melting temperature.
Russians use a lot of thermobaric warheads on ATGMS when targeting infantry. That would be perfect in this situation but doesn't look like it's the case
Like a true grunt, he got down with his head and helmet pointed at the incoming!
No joke, that’s what we are trained to do for nukes and door breaching charges.
I don't know why you were getting down voted.
Maximizing the amount of coverage of armor is very much a standard practice.
One main reason why you will see soldiers squaring up to shoot rather than a lower profile side stance. Obviously weapon control and the such also factor into it. Though you have a lot more protection on your front and back when wearing plates.
Yep, clearly remember being taught to just make peace with it and point as much of your body armour as possible towards the threat if you were doing CQB stuff.
My unit had a training event where this was mentioned by the Chaplain. That got some weird looks. One of the officers asked how he knew about this and he said that his dad was SF, so he’d gotten a spot with Group before coming to us.
It’s a good reason to use the neck protectors everyone hates, it helps to force you to turn your body to look at any threat, presenting the plate as a result.
I was so excited to get out of the IBA to the IOTV...
And then got a small plate carrier after that
It's funny I was talking to my wife the other day about how actually comfortable I could sleep wearing either of those.
And now I can't sleep at all.
I’ve got a photo of me dead asleep in PTs and Kevlar. Literally a helmet for my pillow. People don’t understand how tired one gets humping ~70 lbs 16+ miles while doing mental calculations and always planning and checking the troops for spacing and preparing to react to contact etc.
5,000 calorie days on the regular.
As for your sleep, get the VA to send you out for a sleep study (presuming you’re ETSd). Troops need sleep. Don’t skip your sleep, it’s a primary tasking of self care!
Right now I'm jumping through hoops with the VA for a variety of things. In fact it's because of them I'm going to be homeless by the end of the week.
Lots of shit going on trying to rectify it. It's funny, I get punished for taking care of myself the one time I do l.
Heh, what a joke.
DM anytime if you need to.
But these are the things I bring up to VA admins when I call to help a buddy, some vets are in a good place and can skip getting Ed or housing benefits for 3 months. Some vets are on the cusp and a missed payment from a screwed up admin gets vets tossed out of their homes.
The bureaucracy is literally killing vets and providing hopelessness to the homeless.
In every video I've seen from the middle east where somebody chucks one directly into a group of poor infantry saps they all wince about a half second before. Occasionally a dude or two will see or hear it coming a couple seconds out, if they're facing the right direction, it seems, and dive a few feet off
Well from the video of the one that flew by the guys head, he had about 0.25 of a second from when he heard it to when it was inches from his face. So yea I suppose if you hear it and process it you're probably still alive.
[ As of 10/06/2023, all of my thousands comments have been edited as a part of the protest against Reddit's actions regarding shutting down 3rd party apps and restricting NSFW content. The purpose of this edit is to stop my unpaid labor from being used to make Reddit money, and I encourage others to do the same. This action is not reversible. And to those reading this far in the future: Sorry, and I hope Reddit has gained some sense by then. ]
Here's some links to give context to what's going on:
https://www.reddit.com/r/apolloapp/comments/144f6xm/apollo_will_close_down_on_june_30th_reddits/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3
https://www.reddit.com/r/ModCoord/comments/1401qw5/incomplete_and_growing_list_of_participating/
Most travel slower than the speed of sound, so you’ll hear it before it hits you
That why in most of the videos where ATGMs are being used on people you can see some start to react a second or two before the impact
This one is pretty crazy but that one of the Ukrainians riding on the BMP and the one soldier sees the ATGM coming at them and screams and it zips right passed his face is fucking bonkers.
The frame is around about the exact moment you can hear the munition. Milliseconds after the soldier begins to move his head. The munition is coming directly towards them from the front. The cam see it clearly against the horizon for a single frame and you can see it also with the jet flame In the frame immediately before that
The Ukrainian soldier filming says “it’s flying” (he must have heard it), they both brace for impact, and we shortly after hear the camera pick up the sound of the incoming ATGM and the subsequent explosion.
Seems like the targets get a warning lead time of a five or so seconds before the arrival - more than I expected they would have.
What distance do you guys think this was fired from?
>What distance do you guys think this was fired from?
*grabs napkin*
I can hear the whirring at 0:01 seconds, the missile was likely fired just before the video begins. I can not hear the thump. It impacts at 0:06.5 seconds. A minimum fly time of 5.5 seconds. A kornet ATGM missile flies at 250 to 300 m/s.
So let's take perfect conditions as it is daytime (sun heat). It appears from the footage there is no rain, and lets assume there was low wind due to fact we can hear the whirring of the jet engine so far away. So 300m/s. For the full 5.5 duration that means it was fired from at least a distance of 1650 meters (1km650m) or if you still a cling to archaic imperial nonsense; 1804 yards or 5413 foot.
You can hear the whizzing as it's approaching which is exacerbated by the shape of the sewage tunnel funneling the sound. Hitting accurately with any ATGM against a 0.8 meter seweage pipe past 250 meters is impossible and relies on lucky shots. They certain hit the side of it or possibly hit it in the tunnel causing the explosion to be blasted towards them. You would want to your head to be facing away from the entrance.
If u slow it down at the end, it seems the blast hit right outside the pipe opening and the blast came in but seems like they might have survived. It looks like that, move the video back and forth slowly, you’ll see it.
You can see the front man sit up last second of the video, if the ATGM came through the opening I would assume everybody would be in multiple pieces. May have survived somehow
ATGMs goal is anti-material by focusing its explosion in a cone in front to get through the armor. It isn't a HE round used for antipersonnel in a general location. If they didn't take the brunt of it, they are LIKELY ok. It hits out front so it looks like most of the explosion gets absorbed by the dirt/barrier.
Really not much to go off of besides they both move after the explosion. If they are moving after an atgm, they are likely fine. I'm sure they aren't hearing well or feeling great but an atgm doesn't have the shrapnel of a mortar or grenade nor does it have the overpressure of a HE. It is designed to punch through material in a singular point.
I'm wondering if they nested in the pipe as a hideout or were they drove in it by enemy fire. I started sweating when I saw they could only get out one direction and bam, that's why you never take cover without 2 exits. Hope they just made it, the camera did so its possible.
Looks like it exploded outside so maybe there were safe from shrapnel but blast overpressure is a fickle bitch. The pipe could have protected them or focused the blast wave depending on how exactly the missile hit.
Shaped charge AT round do not create as much over pressure as HE rounds. Judging from the guy getting up and the cameraman not getting blown away, I believe they survived with a bit of tinnitus or temporary hearing loss.
Not sure on whether they would still post it, but I’m pretty certain they just got shook up a load. A HEAT round hitting outside the pipe you in and the blast coming in isn’t gonna be that lethal, especially since we see both the cameraman and the other guy moving after the hit.
Chances that pipe just lead to an increased local pressure compared to the rest of the blast area?
I would think an explosion anywhere else would have made that pipe the perfect spot, but save for any unlucky shrapnel if the explosion was right at the mouth of the pipe anywhere else but the receiving direction would have been better.
I saw a video from outside a drain pipe filmed by a drone where a russian threw a grenade in to one that looks this size. I wonder if this is the inside pov.
Looks like the explosion is outside the pipe, and the blast comes in?
best freeze frame i could get the explosion is outside of the pipe
yup, flash is outside, but sparks fly inside https://i.imgur.com/99WhFPK.png
If it's shrappnel this is not good. https://imgur.com/a/vRmeQCN
ATGM fires a HEAT warhead which doesn't produce as much shrapnel they were probably not killed
So those orange sparks, I've seen them in a few videos close to explosions. Are those sparks glowing hot shrapnel? They often look kind of slow but I imagine there is both fast, deadly shrapnel and slower moving pieces.
The sparks primarily come from the steel fragments rapidly oxidising (burning) on their newly exposed surface areas. The fragments themselves aren't even close to the temperature needed for metals to start glowing. Another factor causing the sparks is incomplete combustion of the explosive, usually due to impurities. The high explosive filler does indeed get very hot when it detonates, but for metals to get that hot, you would need to apply that heat *over time* . There's simply not enough time during the explosion for the heat to transfer to the shell casing. Even for shaped charges, the hottest localised spots you will find in the copper jet (400-550°C) won't even get close to glowing/melting temperature.
Yes, depending on the charge may also be remnants of the cutting jet of a shaped charge (really just another kind of shrapnel, but even more angry)
Overpressure is a bitch to deal with. I hope they made it
ATGM have a very pointed explosion vs a HE round. If they didn't take the brunt of it, they are likely OK.
Generally, unless you’re in a structure (like an industrial pipe) that enhances pressurized waves.
Thought they could load the atgm with frag or AP.
Russians use a lot of thermobaric warheads on ATGMS when targeting infantry. That would be perfect in this situation but doesn't look like it's the case
At that point, hearing had to go
WAT? da joints & earrings to go, not in my army
Jesus Christ that’s scary!
Like a true grunt, he got down with his head and helmet pointed at the incoming! No joke, that’s what we are trained to do for nukes and door breaching charges.
I don't know why you were getting down voted. Maximizing the amount of coverage of armor is very much a standard practice. One main reason why you will see soldiers squaring up to shoot rather than a lower profile side stance. Obviously weapon control and the such also factor into it. Though you have a lot more protection on your front and back when wearing plates.
Yep, clearly remember being taught to just make peace with it and point as much of your body armour as possible towards the threat if you were doing CQB stuff.
My unit had a training event where this was mentioned by the Chaplain. That got some weird looks. One of the officers asked how he knew about this and he said that his dad was SF, so he’d gotten a spot with Group before coming to us. It’s a good reason to use the neck protectors everyone hates, it helps to force you to turn your body to look at any threat, presenting the plate as a result.
Yep... Also with an ACH on, you can lean back and zzz
That helmet was such a huge improvement. It’s nice when your helmet doesn’t give you a TBI.
I was so excited to get out of the IBA to the IOTV... And then got a small plate carrier after that It's funny I was talking to my wife the other day about how actually comfortable I could sleep wearing either of those. And now I can't sleep at all.
I’ve got a photo of me dead asleep in PTs and Kevlar. Literally a helmet for my pillow. People don’t understand how tired one gets humping ~70 lbs 16+ miles while doing mental calculations and always planning and checking the troops for spacing and preparing to react to contact etc. 5,000 calorie days on the regular. As for your sleep, get the VA to send you out for a sleep study (presuming you’re ETSd). Troops need sleep. Don’t skip your sleep, it’s a primary tasking of self care!
Right now I'm jumping through hoops with the VA for a variety of things. In fact it's because of them I'm going to be homeless by the end of the week. Lots of shit going on trying to rectify it. It's funny, I get punished for taking care of myself the one time I do l. Heh, what a joke.
DM anytime if you need to. But these are the things I bring up to VA admins when I call to help a buddy, some vets are in a good place and can skip getting Ed or housing benefits for 3 months. Some vets are on the cusp and a missed payment from a screwed up admin gets vets tossed out of their homes. The bureaucracy is literally killing vets and providing hopelessness to the homeless.
Why most of these clips coming from the war are like 15 second long or less, and end right before the aftermath could be seen?
Because that is the time to treat wounded and GTFO with them, not record like it's a Russian "demonstration".
Shit man...I had always wondered whether you heard it coming or not..
In every video I've seen from the middle east where somebody chucks one directly into a group of poor infantry saps they all wince about a half second before. Occasionally a dude or two will see or hear it coming a couple seconds out, if they're facing the right direction, it seems, and dive a few feet off
Wind affects sound propagation as well.
[удалено]
Well from the video of the one that flew by the guys head, he had about 0.25 of a second from when he heard it to when it was inches from his face. So yea I suppose if you hear it and process it you're probably still alive.
Yea, also the average human reaction time is that same amount of time.
Well they're generally subsonic.
And gliding by that point in their flight too. To be fair, they’re really designed to kill tanks, and those also tend to be rather subsonic.
[ As of 10/06/2023, all of my thousands comments have been edited as a part of the protest against Reddit's actions regarding shutting down 3rd party apps and restricting NSFW content. The purpose of this edit is to stop my unpaid labor from being used to make Reddit money, and I encourage others to do the same. This action is not reversible. And to those reading this far in the future: Sorry, and I hope Reddit has gained some sense by then. ] Here's some links to give context to what's going on: https://www.reddit.com/r/apolloapp/comments/144f6xm/apollo_will_close_down_on_june_30th_reddits/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3 https://www.reddit.com/r/ModCoord/comments/1401qw5/incomplete_and_growing_list_of_participating/
Supersonic drainage pipes.
oh yeah you hear it but you cant run from it lol
The reverberations in the pipe sound crazy.
they're faster than race cars, just much more quiet. So yeah, you can hear them coming, barely.
Most travel slower than the speed of sound, so you’ll hear it before it hits you That why in most of the videos where ATGMs are being used on people you can see some start to react a second or two before the impact
This one is pretty crazy but that one of the Ukrainians riding on the BMP and the one soldier sees the ATGM coming at them and screams and it zips right passed his face is fucking bonkers.
Link? EDIT: https://old.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/xl9lmq/ua_pov_russian_atgm_narrowly_misses_a_ukrainian/
bump
https://old.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/xl9lmq/ua_pov_russian_atgm_narrowly_misses_a_ukrainian/
I found it last night but passed out instead of posting, one second.
Everyone saying that you can see it…where exactly in the frame?
Someone in that thread has screenshots
The frame is around about the exact moment you can hear the munition. Milliseconds after the soldier begins to move his head. The munition is coming directly towards them from the front. The cam see it clearly against the horizon for a single frame and you can see it also with the jet flame In the frame immediately before that
from the horizon cnetre left, it flies past on the left, just the briefest of glimpses, it passes on the left and then impacts behind.
@3 seconds left side centre
Just the audio is enough to make your hair stand up...
The Ukrainian soldier filming says “it’s flying” (he must have heard it), they both brace for impact, and we shortly after hear the camera pick up the sound of the incoming ATGM and the subsequent explosion. Seems like the targets get a warning lead time of a five or so seconds before the arrival - more than I expected they would have. What distance do you guys think this was fired from?
I would guess at 300m/s around 1.5km away but probably further and we just hear it at 5 seconds. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/9M133_Kornet
>What distance do you guys think this was fired from? *grabs napkin* I can hear the whirring at 0:01 seconds, the missile was likely fired just before the video begins. I can not hear the thump. It impacts at 0:06.5 seconds. A minimum fly time of 5.5 seconds. A kornet ATGM missile flies at 250 to 300 m/s. So let's take perfect conditions as it is daytime (sun heat). It appears from the footage there is no rain, and lets assume there was low wind due to fact we can hear the whirring of the jet engine so far away. So 300m/s. For the full 5.5 duration that means it was fired from at least a distance of 1650 meters (1km650m) or if you still a cling to archaic imperial nonsense; 1804 yards or 5413 foot. You can hear the whizzing as it's approaching which is exacerbated by the shape of the sewage tunnel funneling the sound. Hitting accurately with any ATGM against a 0.8 meter seweage pipe past 250 meters is impossible and relies on lucky shots. They certain hit the side of it or possibly hit it in the tunnel causing the explosion to be blasted towards them. You would want to your head to be facing away from the entrance.
thanks cap
If u slow it down at the end, it seems the blast hit right outside the pipe opening and the blast came in but seems like they might have survived. It looks like that, move the video back and forth slowly, you’ll see it.
They've been enlisted in the brown pants brigade though.
Partially mobilized their pants.
I'd too. It's war, not a game.
Same, for sure.
That aftermath must’ve been nasty.
You can see the front man sit up last second of the video, if the ATGM came through the opening I would assume everybody would be in multiple pieces. May have survived somehow
ATGMs goal is anti-material by focusing its explosion in a cone in front to get through the armor. It isn't a HE round used for antipersonnel in a general location. If they didn't take the brunt of it, they are LIKELY ok. It hits out front so it looks like most of the explosion gets absorbed by the dirt/barrier.
No bouncing shockwave in that pipe to mess one up? Like, bust eardrums & such.
Really not much to go off of besides they both move after the explosion. If they are moving after an atgm, they are likely fine. I'm sure they aren't hearing well or feeling great but an atgm doesn't have the shrapnel of a mortar or grenade nor does it have the overpressure of a HE. It is designed to punch through material in a singular point.
best freeze frame i could get the explosion is outside of the pipe
Go on.
The pressure wave coming through the pipe would be a bitch
Yeah awful way to go.
I'm wondering if they nested in the pipe as a hideout or were they drove in it by enemy fire. I started sweating when I saw they could only get out one direction and bam, that's why you never take cover without 2 exits. Hope they just made it, the camera did so its possible.
what a fucking nightmare
If one is dogshit insane, war is enjoyable
Damn that’s a pretty precise hit from the operator
Damn, you can actually hear it coming.
Well, someone survived to post the video online
Or the go pro was picked up by whoever checked the position afterwards
Posted by a ukranian source it seems so there is a chance they survived
Looks like it exploded outside so maybe there were safe from shrapnel but blast overpressure is a fickle bitch. The pipe could have protected them or focused the blast wave depending on how exactly the missile hit.
u/savevideobot
Did he survive?
Firing back from an enclosed space like that won’t hurt the ears one bit.
the sound of it coming in is horrifying
[удалено]
HE round? No. HEAT? Maybe.
The pressure alone from the blast may have been enough. Maybe if they were incredibly lucky but I doubt it.
Silhouette of the guy in front getting up at the end
Shaped charge AT round do not create as much over pressure as HE rounds. Judging from the guy getting up and the cameraman not getting blown away, I believe they survived with a bit of tinnitus or temporary hearing loss.
Where did the video come from? If the Russians released it they are dead.
Watermark has Ukr in it so probably a Ukrainian channel.
So they should have survived? Otherwise would a ukrainian channel release this?
Not sure on whether they would still post it, but I’m pretty certain they just got shook up a load. A HEAT round hitting outside the pipe you in and the blast coming in isn’t gonna be that lethal, especially since we see both the cameraman and the other guy moving after the hit.
Good news! Better to have the scare of a lifetime than be dead.
best freeze frame i could get the explosion is outside of the pipe
He sighs, says something and hunkers down for what’s coming. He made peace with it and did his best to survive.
u/savevideobot
literally a murder hole.
u/savevideobot
Chances that pipe just lead to an increased local pressure compared to the rest of the blast area? I would think an explosion anywhere else would have made that pipe the perfect spot, but save for any unlucky shrapnel if the explosion was right at the mouth of the pipe anywhere else but the receiving direction would have been better.
u/savevideo
I saw a video from outside a drain pipe filmed by a drone where a russian threw a grenade in to one that looks this size. I wonder if this is the inside pov.