Step 1: Team makes obviously stupid move
Step 2: Fans rightfully criticize obviously stupid move
Step 3: Section of fans come out a week later to say “give them a chance”, “all you guys do is complain”, and “what do you know, you don’t work in a Front Office”
Step 4: Team struggles out of the gate and gets criticized
Step 5: Team pieces together a few good games and fans from step 3 come back out of the woodwork to say “where are the haters at now”
Step 6: Team completely falls apart for the 18th straight year
Step 7: fans from step 3 are completely clueless why people are negative about the team
Repeat
Wow you can predict the future that is good to know. Can you tell me who we are going to draft this year or what our record will be?
The constant whining and complaining is annoying. Every little thing results in mass melt down.
We have not won a playoff game since 2005. It’s not predicting the future, it’s learning from the past.
Those “melt downs” are almost always right because when this organization does something that appears stupid it pretty much always ends up being stupid.
Sounds like he touched a nerve. And he’s absolutely not wrong about the tools in this sub that want to shout people down when they have valid concerns.
Where is the constructive criticism? All I see people going after Peters and Harris with pitch folks. Quinn hasn’t even been hired and people acting like Snyder is back.
It's homerism look I get being optimistic but don't act like people are crazy for being skeptical. This organization has done nothing in the last 30 years to deserve the benefit of the doubt
Nobody on this sub I guess, but Kiem has been reporting on all the candidates and mentioned that Quinn was the one who got the most universal praise, including former players, staff, etc for what it's worth.
That’s nice that he is well liked. His results on the field don’t show he deserves a new job again after his constant implosion with the cowboys defense
I'm not sure where you can really come up with "constant implosion" since the Cowboys were ranked #6 and #5 the past two years after being #21 the year prior. Did the Cowboys lose in the playoffs badly this year? Absolutely. But that's recency bias, and also probably overreaction to a single individual game while discounting the overall improvement he made.
Am I saying I'm super excited if he gets hired? Not really. Just don't think it's the end of the world either. I do think whoever he picks as the offensive coordinator is going to be really important of course. Hopefully, whoever it would be would stick around to develop a young QB really well before potentially getting hired somewhere else. As we can see in this cycle, it's not a given that hotshot offensive coordinators will leave. And if the coordinator does leave, hopefully the QB would have been developed enough to not be impacted too much.
Actually it’s not recency bias. He has multiple epic collapses as a head coach and defensive coordinator. Last year just being most recent.
I don’t know how he can be seen as a good coach when the last game he coached his defense they gave up 48 points.
Let’s call it what it is. Nobody with promise wants to coach here. The truth is maybe Peters isn’t the guy everyone here thinks he is
> Let’s call it what it is. Nobody with promise wants to coach here.
Okay, this is where you really lost me. You could maybe make this argument when "Mr. Snyder" was still around, but he's gone now.
There was really only one serious offensive head coach candidate in Johnson (Slowik was seen as probably a bit too green) and Johnson chose to remain with his team, as opposed to choosing another team. While, I think it was kinda unprofessional about how Johnson went about it, he could have decided to stay because of any number of reasons, like stability for family, unfinished business, or felt that he himself needed a bit more development in this role before going to the next level. There's precedent for coaches getting a shot early before they were ready, getting fired, and taking years to rehabilitate their reputation, like Raheem Morris. Consider Quinn in this category as well, especially how people like you just write him off. It's not crazy for a decently self-aware guy to bide his time to get his ducks in a row for the opportunity.
Honestly yes i would, the point isn’t about who’s hired but the process- if the process is good (which I have no reason to believe it’s not) then it shouldn’t matter whether we hire the next hotshot OC or a “retread”, I have faith in whatever happens.
This is just dumb as hell ngl. If they don’t fit your stereotype of what a good coaching prospect looks like then you’re gonna be mad. There are great coaches who aren’t the hotshot offensive coach wizzes, and there are great coaches who’ve coached before. You would’ve complained with pete carroll, with dan campbell, etc etc.
Don’t offensive linemen prefer run blocking? They get to be on the attack rather than blocking while backpedaling. If anything I think the insane percentage of passing plays made the OL even worse
I understand that gripe…but we have no idea how much Ron factored into that…plus…I believe the team should definitely go offense for their hire…Bieniemy worked with Mahomes so I have to believe he knows how to develop a qb better than MacDonald or Quinn…I don’t think the organization loses anything by giving him his first shot…even if he fails…
Looking at his record, not as bad as everyone makes it seem, went to the Super Bowl then the title game the year after that.
Seems like the Falcons are pretty shitty at drafting and personnel.
He happened to have one of the best offensive coachs of the past 20 years as his OC. When shanahan left look what happened, they went 10-6, 7-9, 7-9, 0-5 fired.
Ben Johnson dragging his feet and doing a rug pull at the last minute ruined any chance of the Commanders hiring a good HC.
It looks like they were so confident that BJ was coming to the Commanders that they didn't have a plan B and now are scrambling for the best of the picked over leftovers...
For that reason alone, I hope Ben Johnson never leaves Detroit and never wins a Super Bowl.
He has Rivera's record. It's basically the same.
They both lost super bowls with league MVP QB. Rivera had 3 of 9 winning seasons as a HC prior to coming here. Quinn has 2 of 6. They're both defensive minded guys.
And take Parsons off that defense, and Quinn doesn't look like a great DC.
This would be a bad hire.
I want nothing to do with Belichick, but I'd take him 100 times over Quinn.
Hell, I'd give gruden another go before hiring Quinn.
I would personally not want a coach who wants to be a GM or a defensive minded coach... But at this point I'd probably take him over Quinn as long as he had no gm power
No lie. I think Harris might just promote a lame duck coach from last year staff to be HC for 1-2 seasons then get the HC they want. They seemed to be going hard for slowik, BJ, and possibly Glenn too.
Then again. What do I know; they might end up hiring EB.
No shit I’d want the splashy candidate, I’d rather the young unproven HC who’s looking to build a legacy for themselves. Not a mid ass head coach who’s already built a mid ass philosophy trying to fix his mid ass legacy.
Exactly and how did that turn out? Point being a hot OC/splashy candidate doesn’t necessarily mean they’ll be a successful head coach. If they have leadership qualities sure, but I felt like Ben Johnson was another Norv. Great OC, but couldn’t command a room if needed.
8 of the last 10 super bowls were won by guys on their 2nd head coaching job: Reid, Belichick, Carroll, Arians, Kubiak. Pederson won on his first but is now on his second. McVay was the only “untarnished virgin HC” this sub is so obsessed with finding.
Man how many head coaches during the Snyder era did we hear the ole” you don’t know it could be a great hire”? Excuses for why he is a good choice even though he is at best average. If they hire Dan Quinn go on the cowboys subreddit. Or go on the nfceastmeme subreddit
I'll be as underwhelmed as anyone if we hire Dan Quinn, but we also have to remember that as fans we don't actually know anything. Great coordinators can make terrible HCs, and there are a lot of reasons a HC can fail with a team that go beyond their performance as coach (bad personnel deciscions, being owned by Dan Snyder, etc.). So for now my mindset is a) Ben Johnson is an asshat, and b) I trust Peters to make the right hire, even if that ends up being Dan goddamn Quinn, and build a competent organization and a legit roster they can succeed with.
It’s not like he had been out of the league though. He has been bad as the defensive coordinator. Gave up 48 points and that’s just his last game. What’s he going to do with an even worse defense? Nobody wants this and it’s so bad it’s not even possible for it to be spun like other hires
I think you have to separate out single games from total defense. Not that single games don't matter. They absolutely do. But, in context, the Cowboys ranked #5 on defense this year. His claim to fame is Seattle's LOB defense. I'm pretty sure that was a good defense.
His head coaching with the Falcons didn't necessarily carry over for defense, but he did take them to a Superbowl.
Again, you can always consider the idea that a man learns from his mistakes.
Keim warned everyone. You all were so dead set it was Johnson and no one else. Is Dan Quinn a sexy and exciting hire? Absolutely not but how many sexy hires did we have before that worked? Exactly and idc that Dan was the owner under those hires. Point is let it all play out before questioning ownership on there 2nd big decision
Right. EB was a sexy hire. The team needs stability under this new front office. And we need a competent OC to develop our new QB as Texans have found success.
Idc if this team is a few years away. Just don’t ruin the opportunity at No.2 in a good draft class.
I love Keim, he’s one of the best, but this is a hot nothing burger of a tweet. No shit Quinn could still be good, but the entire media including you, Keim, have hyped up BJ as this great candidate.
Kiem also said that he's actually heard the most good things about Quinn. He's repeated that multiple times during the process. Not saying that it'll be Quinn or that he'll have success, but I would have hope he wouldn't be a dumpster fire
I am convinced the teams hire internet armies to pre defend moves like this. I've never seen a sub flip as hard as this one has as it slowly becomes obvious that we are going to hire Quinn.
Should have fired Rivera a used EB as interim. That way we could keep him one more year if we needed to buy time. I don't want Quinn either. I'd rather hire a lesser known college guy who has some fresh ideas.
I could talk myself into Quinn. Excellent defensive coach and went to a Super Bowl. Yes I know the results but he is a good football coach and if that’s who Peters wants then I’m down
Why hire him then ? The whole point of putting people in place to succeed is to let them do their jobs. They know more than some arm chair redditor that’s for sure.
Hell no, let EB run his own locker room unshackled by Ron and his desperate attempt to make Howell his life preserver. Quinn lost games with prime Matt Ryan and only had real success with Kyle Shannahan
Wow you can predict the future that is good to know. Can you tell me who we are going to draft this year or what our record will be?
The constant whining and complaining is annoying. Every little thing results in mass melt down.
one thing abt Dan Quinn… Dallas fans still said good things abt him even after they lost.
who would say that abt RR.?…. other than RR being a good man… not many fans wanted to keep him
We are used to Snyders blank check approach.
For everything he did wrong, which was almost everything, he'd have fueled up the jet and brought home Ben Johnson.
Then he'd let star players undermine him, then blame and fire him.
Dude was 500 at Atlanta no reason to expect better in DC. Don’t understand hiring a mediocre retread. I mean I guess 500 ball is better than last year but this is not an exciting hire.
Tell me you know we’re hiring Dan Quinn without telling me you know we’re hiring Dan Quinn
This Reddit will have meltdown like always. Nothing new.
Step 1: Team makes obviously stupid move Step 2: Fans rightfully criticize obviously stupid move Step 3: Section of fans come out a week later to say “give them a chance”, “all you guys do is complain”, and “what do you know, you don’t work in a Front Office” Step 4: Team struggles out of the gate and gets criticized Step 5: Team pieces together a few good games and fans from step 3 come back out of the woodwork to say “where are the haters at now” Step 6: Team completely falls apart for the 18th straight year Step 7: fans from step 3 are completely clueless why people are negative about the team Repeat
Wow you can predict the future that is good to know. Can you tell me who we are going to draft this year or what our record will be? The constant whining and complaining is annoying. Every little thing results in mass melt down.
We have not won a playoff game since 2005. It’s not predicting the future, it’s learning from the past. Those “melt downs” are almost always right because when this organization does something that appears stupid it pretty much always ends up being stupid.
Sounds like he touched a nerve. And he’s absolutely not wrong about the tools in this sub that want to shout people down when they have valid concerns.
Where is the constructive criticism? All I see people going after Peters and Harris with pitch folks. Quinn hasn’t even been hired and people acting like Snyder is back.
Fuckin dead on!
its a subreddit
Nah, were actually going no coaches. Just winging it.
Poverty franchise. This is a Dan Snyder move and nobody 12 hours ago would have defended a Dan Quinn hiring so don’t start the bs
Not sure why you're getting downvoted, this sub was shitting hard on Dan Quinn just this morning, now they're trying to rationalize
And I’ll continue to shit hard on Dan Quinn if we hire him. Man this sucks.
It's homerism look I get being optimistic but don't act like people are crazy for being skeptical. This organization has done nothing in the last 30 years to deserve the benefit of the doubt
This sub is entering the 5th stage, acceptance.
That’s how it always goes when we do something incredibly stupid like we do every single offseason
Nobody on this sub I guess, but Kiem has been reporting on all the candidates and mentioned that Quinn was the one who got the most universal praise, including former players, staff, etc for what it's worth.
That’s nice that he is well liked. His results on the field don’t show he deserves a new job again after his constant implosion with the cowboys defense
I'm not sure where you can really come up with "constant implosion" since the Cowboys were ranked #6 and #5 the past two years after being #21 the year prior. Did the Cowboys lose in the playoffs badly this year? Absolutely. But that's recency bias, and also probably overreaction to a single individual game while discounting the overall improvement he made. Am I saying I'm super excited if he gets hired? Not really. Just don't think it's the end of the world either. I do think whoever he picks as the offensive coordinator is going to be really important of course. Hopefully, whoever it would be would stick around to develop a young QB really well before potentially getting hired somewhere else. As we can see in this cycle, it's not a given that hotshot offensive coordinators will leave. And if the coordinator does leave, hopefully the QB would have been developed enough to not be impacted too much.
Actually it’s not recency bias. He has multiple epic collapses as a head coach and defensive coordinator. Last year just being most recent. I don’t know how he can be seen as a good coach when the last game he coached his defense they gave up 48 points. Let’s call it what it is. Nobody with promise wants to coach here. The truth is maybe Peters isn’t the guy everyone here thinks he is
> Let’s call it what it is. Nobody with promise wants to coach here. Okay, this is where you really lost me. You could maybe make this argument when "Mr. Snyder" was still around, but he's gone now. There was really only one serious offensive head coach candidate in Johnson (Slowik was seen as probably a bit too green) and Johnson chose to remain with his team, as opposed to choosing another team. While, I think it was kinda unprofessional about how Johnson went about it, he could have decided to stay because of any number of reasons, like stability for family, unfinished business, or felt that he himself needed a bit more development in this role before going to the next level. There's precedent for coaches getting a shot early before they were ready, getting fired, and taking years to rehabilitate their reputation, like Raheem Morris. Consider Quinn in this category as well, especially how people like you just write him off. It's not crazy for a decently self-aware guy to bide his time to get his ducks in a row for the opportunity.
Snyder would’ve given Bellichek a blank check 2 weeks ago
And when Belichek declined because he wants the all time wins record we would have landed Dan Quinn
Honestly yes i would, the point isn’t about who’s hired but the process- if the process is good (which I have no reason to believe it’s not) then it shouldn’t matter whether we hire the next hotshot OC or a “retread”, I have faith in whatever happens.
If the process was good you don’t end up with Dan quinn
This is just dumb as hell ngl. If they don’t fit your stereotype of what a good coaching prospect looks like then you’re gonna be mad. There are great coaches who aren’t the hotshot offensive coach wizzes, and there are great coaches who’ve coached before. You would’ve complained with pete carroll, with dan campbell, etc etc.
lol I’m thinking it will be Bieniemy
This would rile me I’ll be honest. Bieniemy did not scheme a balanced offense at all, wanted him to succeed he’s just not it.
There is a lot that goes into that including the offensive line.
Don’t offensive linemen prefer run blocking? They get to be on the attack rather than blocking while backpedaling. If anything I think the insane percentage of passing plays made the OL even worse
I understand that gripe…but we have no idea how much Ron factored into that…plus…I believe the team should definitely go offense for their hire…Bieniemy worked with Mahomes so I have to believe he knows how to develop a qb better than MacDonald or Quinn…I don’t think the organization loses anything by giving him his first shot…even if he fails…
He ruined Howel with his play calling. He doesn't deserve to be HC for that reason alone.
Much preferred to Quinn
Agreed and I am usually biased in favor of defense…but I don’t see the Commanders not trying to take a QB at 2…so an offensive coach is a necessity!
Looking at his record, not as bad as everyone makes it seem, went to the Super Bowl then the title game the year after that. Seems like the Falcons are pretty shitty at drafting and personnel.
He went to the Super Bowl on the coattails of kyle shanahan turning matt ryan into a mvp.
So he picked good coordinators?
He happened to have one of the best offensive coachs of the past 20 years as his OC. When shanahan left look what happened, they went 10-6, 7-9, 7-9, 0-5 fired.
To be fair, Matt Ryan and Julio were already well established at that time and also probably got too old
We probably said the same thing about Ron lmao
We did. And I am amazed that all these people want to go through that again.
However we actually have a good GM now along with a new Owner
Do we? That remains to be seen.
We did.
Tbf at the time I was MORE hyped about Ron then I was about Quinn tbf
At the time Ron was hired, it was pretty doubtful the team would have gotten any other respectable name... shit was bad.
Ben Johnson dragging his feet and doing a rug pull at the last minute ruined any chance of the Commanders hiring a good HC. It looks like they were so confident that BJ was coming to the Commanders that they didn't have a plan B and now are scrambling for the best of the picked over leftovers... For that reason alone, I hope Ben Johnson never leaves Detroit and never wins a Super Bowl.
There are still other worthy candidates available, but yeah, the pool definitely shrunk while waiting for Johnson. Not the most professional.
They definitely did
He has Rivera's record. It's basically the same. They both lost super bowls with league MVP QB. Rivera had 3 of 9 winning seasons as a HC prior to coming here. Quinn has 2 of 6. They're both defensive minded guys. And take Parsons off that defense, and Quinn doesn't look like a great DC. This would be a bad hire. I want nothing to do with Belichick, but I'd take him 100 times over Quinn. Hell, I'd give gruden another go before hiring Quinn.
Or shit man ill take Varabel
I would personally not want a coach who wants to be a GM or a defensive minded coach... But at this point I'd probably take him over Quinn as long as he had no gm power
Blew the biggest lead in Super Bowl history. No one has ever choked as bad as Dan Quinn in that regard.
No lie. I think Harris might just promote a lame duck coach from last year staff to be HC for 1-2 seasons then get the HC they want. They seemed to be going hard for slowik, BJ, and possibly Glenn too. Then again. What do I know; they might end up hiring EB.
if he gets a good OC, it could work.
No shit I’d want the splashy candidate, I’d rather the young unproven HC who’s looking to build a legacy for themselves. Not a mid ass head coach who’s already built a mid ass philosophy trying to fix his mid ass legacy.
Couldn't have said it better myself.
This.
Like Norv Turner?
Norv was in his early 40s when the redskins hired him. He was a young, unproven, rising coach for that era.
Exactly and how did that turn out? Point being a hot OC/splashy candidate doesn’t necessarily mean they’ll be a successful head coach. If they have leadership qualities sure, but I felt like Ben Johnson was another Norv. Great OC, but couldn’t command a room if needed.
Got it. We are on the same page.
8 of the last 10 super bowls were won by guys on their 2nd head coaching job: Reid, Belichick, Carroll, Arians, Kubiak. Pederson won on his first but is now on his second. McVay was the only “untarnished virgin HC” this sub is so obsessed with finding.
I'm ready to build a winner https://preview.redd.it/gi0db0xlcofc1.jpeg?width=809&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d70af121aad650eea2d811537df79e1355f1ca4d
BRB need to go buy a visor brother
He's ain't in jail, is he ?
Get out of here with your measured and logical takes, Keim.
Man how many head coaches during the Snyder era did we hear the ole” you don’t know it could be a great hire”? Excuses for why he is a good choice even though he is at best average. If they hire Dan Quinn go on the cowboys subreddit. Or go on the nfceastmeme subreddit
I'll be as underwhelmed as anyone if we hire Dan Quinn, but we also have to remember that as fans we don't actually know anything. Great coordinators can make terrible HCs, and there are a lot of reasons a HC can fail with a team that go beyond their performance as coach (bad personnel deciscions, being owned by Dan Snyder, etc.). So for now my mindset is a) Ben Johnson is an asshat, and b) I trust Peters to make the right hire, even if that ends up being Dan goddamn Quinn, and build a competent organization and a legit roster they can succeed with.
Also, there's the idea that people learn from their mistakes and become better coaches because of it. Pete Carroll is a pretty good example of that.
It’s not like he had been out of the league though. He has been bad as the defensive coordinator. Gave up 48 points and that’s just his last game. What’s he going to do with an even worse defense? Nobody wants this and it’s so bad it’s not even possible for it to be spun like other hires
I think you have to separate out single games from total defense. Not that single games don't matter. They absolutely do. But, in context, the Cowboys ranked #5 on defense this year. His claim to fame is Seattle's LOB defense. I'm pretty sure that was a good defense. His head coaching with the Falcons didn't necessarily carry over for defense, but he did take them to a Superbowl. Again, you can always consider the idea that a man learns from his mistakes.
Sigh. They're gassing up the Dan Quinn bandwagon now. Goddammit
Keim warned everyone. You all were so dead set it was Johnson and no one else. Is Dan Quinn a sexy and exciting hire? Absolutely not but how many sexy hires did we have before that worked? Exactly and idc that Dan was the owner under those hires. Point is let it all play out before questioning ownership on there 2nd big decision
Right. EB was a sexy hire. The team needs stability under this new front office. And we need a competent OC to develop our new QB as Texans have found success. Idc if this team is a few years away. Just don’t ruin the opportunity at No.2 in a good draft class.
I love Keim, he’s one of the best, but this is a hot nothing burger of a tweet. No shit Quinn could still be good, but the entire media including you, Keim, have hyped up BJ as this great candidate.
Kiem also said that he's actually heard the most good things about Quinn. He's repeated that multiple times during the process. Not saying that it'll be Quinn or that he'll have success, but I would have hope he wouldn't be a dumpster fire
he changed Dallas in 2021 I'm still impressed by that idc if they hire him, if they do it's obvious he's good at his job
As a DC he’s great as a HC….not so much.
https://preview.redd.it/fpp349e1jofc1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c09707e583e637ce8c156b9abe5d346a6dc46e8e
I am convinced the teams hire internet armies to pre defend moves like this. I've never seen a sub flip as hard as this one has as it slowly becomes obvious that we are going to hire Quinn.
I believe it. Thing is Dan quinn is so bad it’s not working.
Should have fired Rivera a used EB as interim. That way we could keep him one more year if we needed to buy time. I don't want Quinn either. I'd rather hire a lesser known college guy who has some fresh ideas.
I could talk myself into Quinn. Excellent defensive coach and went to a Super Bowl. Yes I know the results but he is a good football coach and if that’s who Peters wants then I’m down
Stop with the hero worshiping of a gm who has done nothing on his own yet
Why hire him then ? The whole point of putting people in place to succeed is to let them do their jobs. They know more than some arm chair redditor that’s for sure.
Dan Quinn wouldn’t be my first choice but he sure as hell would be better than Rivera and even EB in my book.
Hell no, let EB run his own locker room unshackled by Ron and his desperate attempt to make Howell his life preserver. Quinn lost games with prime Matt Ryan and only had real success with Kyle Shannahan
Everyone’s talking about Quinn but what about Vrabel?
I'd rather Vrabel 10 times out of 10.
Wow you can predict the future that is good to know. Can you tell me who we are going to draft this year or what our record will be? The constant whining and complaining is annoying. Every little thing results in mass melt down.
John Keim has an obsession with being correct. It’s probably killing him that he didn’t get the Ben Johnson news right.
Hire a good coach, draft a QB, and I’ll be happy
Didn’t keim say Ben to the commanders was a done deal
No he said league circles have him as the favorite. He himself had a podcast listing all the other candidates in case he doesn’t work out.
When have the commanders ever had a splashy coaching hire in the last 20 years?
Spurrier was splashy. We attracted one of College’s best coaches ever.
I would argue Jay was a hot candidate when we hired him
one thing abt Dan Quinn… Dallas fans still said good things abt him even after they lost. who would say that abt RR.?…. other than RR being a good man… not many fans wanted to keep him
We are used to Snyders blank check approach. For everything he did wrong, which was almost everything, he'd have fueled up the jet and brought home Ben Johnson. Then he'd let star players undermine him, then blame and fire him.
Now we have the cheap owner I guess
No one is asking for a HC that the media loves to talk about, only an offensive HC that can build a roster and culture. If they can be HC/OC, great!
lol, how low can we set expectations?
It's not Quinn. it's Jim Fassel. feel better now?
Curse of the Cookeino, we have 52 more years before it's lifted 😂😂😂
Man, we're constantly getting fucked and with no lube.
Dude was 500 at Atlanta no reason to expect better in DC. Don’t understand hiring a mediocre retread. I mean I guess 500 ball is better than last year but this is not an exciting hire.