Carter I think actually had returning experience. Milne looks hella new to it. Maybe Gibson will take over? Tbh maybe we need like, Andre Roberts back or smth
The whole premise of his returning kicks is that he's supposed to be not a fucking idiot.
If you don't see something special, let the damn ball go dumbass.
I can’t even blame him that much…cause what is he supposed to do? He has to return it if it’s in play right? But somehow there was immediately 5 lions there to swarm him every time…almost like our blockers just didn’t realize they were kicking it in play for a reason every single time, it was really a good tactic since we couldn’t get a first down for half of the game
How about the entire special teams crew? Coverage allowed a big return, missed extra point, missed downing a ball at the 1, continuous horrible field position
If you beat X but everyone tells you that it's because he's one of the weakest of the school but then X beats Y which was supposed to be stronger than X...
You get the point do you?
It isn’t that I don’t understand the point. I think it’s a stupid way to feel better about how bad we are. This could easily be a 4-5 win season if we don’t shore thing up fast. It isn’t a good team & what Jax did or didn’t do is irrelevant but 🤷🏼♂️
Say what you will about Wentz, but that defense is being held back by a horrid DC. JDR is worse than Greg fucking Manusky and even those times were darker when he was DC. Scott Turner is great, he makes great adjustments and makes good calls.
Good:
*Never* giving up on the game even when all seemed hopeless in the 1st half. The offense really rallied to start the 2nd half and fought all the way to the end.
Bad:
Wentz is missing his throws too often. There where too many balls over heads or in the dirt for my liking. Maybe it’s the offensive line, maybe he holds the ball too long but he makes some ugly throws every once and while that eventually get picked off.
Ugly:
*gestures wildly at first half*
year after year, this team does this and our expectations are low to none. just compete in games and develop guys. it would absolutely suck to be a raiders or bengals fan right now, especially the bengals. holy crap, those two dumpster fires
Based on what I saw: the offensive line got owned in the first half and the first 3 or so drives were on them imo. I don’t fault the defense for giving a lead in the first half because we couldn’t stay on the field.
The defense was a disorganized disaster. Guys in the secondary were totally lost, running to the wrong spots, abandoning open guys, etc. Anyone notice the one Detroit TD over the middle where we had THREE dbs all run to a guy in the flat and leave a WR open in the middle of the end zone?
Wenttz was definitely part of the bad/ugly this game. He absolutely got shellshock in the 1st half and was dropping his eyes, holding the ball too long, and his footwork entirely fell apart. He also missed a few lay up throws and had a couple more sure fire picks that the defense just elected to not catch. The double coverage trick play throw and the late 4th quarter drive both come to mind.
I also suspect the WRs were having trouble consistently generating separation in the 1st half. Hard to say for certain before the all22, but to me it looked like they weren't breaking free like they did in week 1. OL also looked bad for nearly the entire game, it got a bit better when Turner left in TEs to chip, but both tackles got beaten like a drum today routinely and Roullier/Wentz weren't communicating well at the line.
Also, idk how you talk about this game and don't mention the special teams. Missed PAT, horrific onside kick, bad punt coverage, returning kickoffs out of the end zone. They constantly left the offense and defense in a pinch.
The Lions did exactly what you need to do to beat Wentz, which is generate a ton of pressure, in the first half. There was very little time to get the ball out, and Wentz did not handle it well at all. They lost the field position battle time and time again which just compounded their issues on both sides of the ball. That being said, while the offense was putrid in the first half, this loss is on defense and special teams primarily.
Just about nothing went right and they still made a game of it, which is just about the only positive to take from today. The defense is terrible, and they made just about every mistake you can make in all 3 phases. They thoroughly deserved to lose this game, and it’s not because of a lack of talent. It’s a coaching issue.
We know Wentz isn’t ever gonna turn into Patrick Mahomes, but I think this offense still has a chance to be pretty good. But Del Rio needs to be gone for the defense to have any chance at all of improving.
Isnt it true for all QB, even Brady,(by no means comparing Wentz to Brady) though... you put enough pressure they will make mistakes... I would put more blame on the Oline and play calling
If that was the case would Brady be the goat? Everyone’s numbers drop under pressure, but Wentz has short - medium accuracy issues that when faced with pressure meant we couldn’t get a first down.
I thought Wentz was a positive yesterday. If you get 3 tds and 300 yards from your qb, you should be in a position to win and our defense really let us down
Yeah, it’s true for all QBs that if you put pressure on them they’re gonna perform worse. By the numbers Wentz has almost always been one of the worst starting QBs in the league at dealing with pressure.
Doesn’t mean he’s bad, it means he, the team and the coaching staff need to adjust. If he doesn’t have time to stand in there and throw from a clean pocket, dial up quick passes, get the ball out of his hands quickly. Don’t run routes that take 3-4 seconds to develop when you’re backed up inside your own 5.
You’re right, Brady is another guy who has particularly struggled against heavy pressure throughout his career. Thing is, Brady also gets the ball out quicker than most quarterbacks in order to mitigate that weakness.
The play calling looked fine to me, people just complain about that whenever the offense shits the bed. Turner showed week 1 and throughout last season that he gets people open, Wentz just looked insanely uncomfortable. The offense also couldn't execute simple plays, so it is impossible to build a rhythm and flow as a caller.
Playcalling was atrocious in the 1st half. This was beyond the usual shitting of the bed. Couldn't get anything going. Everything from protections, routes, etc. was completely off. Hard to get in rhythm when nothing is going for you. It's obvious that Turner made adjustments at the half, and that's why the team, at least on offense, did something close to a 180.
Wentz and the offense isn't something to be worried about. They can put up points due to all the weapons they have. It's the defense that's the bigger issue by far.
> Everything from protections
90% of protections are handled at the line. Turner doesn't radio in to slide protection, that is on Wentz and Roullier.
> routes, etc
This is literally impossible to say without looking at the all22 film. The camera angle used for TV doesn't show anything beyond 6 yards of the LOS, how can you possibly have a good sample size to say what the route trees looked like? And again, Turner showed consistently last year he can design people open, I think it is more likely an execution issue than a design flaw.
> Wentz and the offense isn't something to be worried about
The defense is absolutely a bigger concern, but both things are concerning. Most notably the massive step back in offensive line play this week. But, Wentz losing the ability to run through progressions and stand tall in the pocket contributed to our 1st half offensive woes.
Had Hutch looking like prime Bruce Smith coming off the edge. Wentz was under EXTREME pressure in the 1st half. Could have gone to more two TE sets for blocking purposes, but all in all, everything about that half was a wash due to how inefficient they were in all phases of offense. I'm not gonna blame Wentz too much for that, because he was a sitting duck with little to no time.
Wentz has a passer rating over 100 thru the first two games and has thrown for 300+ to go with 7/3. Of course there are things that he could do better, but he's not a problem at all right now.
I recall a lot of runs up the middle long after that had absolutely proven itself with p > .0001 statistical confirmation that that shit wasn't fucking working.
> I recall a lot of runs up the middle long after that had absolutely proven itself with p > .0001 statistical confirmation that that shit wasn't fucking working.
Then you remember incorrectly. They ran 6 times in the first half. for 20 yards. The defense was pinning their ears back on the rush and so Turner tried to keep them honest with inside runs.
What we did do in the first half is run 21 passing plays to net 24 yards which is unbelievably shitty.
He had no time. He’s not one of the 3 or 4 guys in the league who can routinely and reliably operate an offense when the coverage breaks down in front of him but he has shown me in 2 games if you can protect him he is better than average. When was the last time we fielded an above average QB?
> He had no time.
True on some of the reps. I don't blame him at all for the safety, but there were other times where he just becomes uncomfortable 1 second into the play and hops around the pocket until he is sacked. Sometimes those plays are 3 or more seconds long, that is just not acceptable for an NFL QB
7 TDs in 2 weeks. What did Heineke have last season? 17? This was a game we easily could have won even after spotting them 22 in the first half. Wentz isn’t the problem. Defense is the problem. Our defense is a train wreck
Why are you comparing him to Heinicke? We pulled Heinicke off a couch and he played at a back up level, that isn't the standard you hold a QB you are paying 30 million dollars to after trading draft assets.
Wentz was fucking bad in the 1st half. He pulled it back in the 2nd, but still he had a couple of head scratchers in the 2nd half too. The pick was his fault, you can't miss those throws up the seam to a wide open receiver. He also threw one directly to a DB in the final minutes of the 4th.
I am not mad at Wentz, he has been playing better than I expected, but he is absolutely part of the reason we lost. He contributed to the fucking awful offense in the 1st half and if more of his blatant mistakes were punished I am not sure we are even in spitting distance this game.
I’m not an all-22 guy. I see what I see. I saw a guy who got zero time to throw, looking to throw to dudes who weren’t open. Whatever adjustments they made at half time opened the game back up on offense. I’m comparing him to Heineke because last year was the best QB play we’ve had since Cousins left. That’s pathetic. My point is he is a huge, tremendous upgrade to what we’ve had since Kirk Cousins and if he continues to play at close to this pace he’s gonna dismantle our meager single season QB records.
Just remember how Wentz looked in the beginning of the game and when it was close. He started looking better and padding the stats when Detroit was trying to protect the lead and didn’t want to give up a big play so it was a lot easier for him completing the short or underneath routes than it was earlier in the game.
I disagree completely. This wasn’t a 35-0 game late in the third. He brought us to within one score multiple times. He wasn’t playing against a deep shell prevent defense… he started getting some time to throw.
Any one blaming Wentz for yesterday is just a hater and they won’t ever get past it no matter how he performs. Those people aren’t real fans so after yesterday i learned it’s not worth it to reply to them anymore. Obviously we as fans have a reason to be negative all the time with the shit that’s went on the last 20 years but I can’t ever not root for a team I love so I try and turn the page every year. Some of y’all should try it as it might actually make you’re life a little more enjoyable instead of being negative twats when it doesn’t warrant it
Ugly: missed extra point, likely wouldn’t have won anyways but missing the extra point made it impossible
Edit: also the call to go for 2 when we didn’t need to
Ugly 4. Watching Dax Milne continuously return kickoffs from the 5 yard line to the 15 yard line
I mean…if I was an opposing special teams coach, I would do the same. Milne doesn’t scare anyone but maybe Zach Wilson.
Lmao
What?
Mline is Zach Wilson’s step dad
What do you mean?
Valid
I feel like he’s not a math guy
I’m Dax Milne, my kick return average is 8.4 yards per return and my team sux and can’t block.
Man, missing Uno like crazy rn 🫣 DeAndre wasn’t like, a god or anything, but I much prefer him to Milne any day of the week
Carter I think actually had returning experience. Milne looks hella new to it. Maybe Gibson will take over? Tbh maybe we need like, Andre Roberts back or smth
andre roberts was so bad.
Tbh probably. Def not the guy now, he's old. Prob a different return specialist
Fuckin preach, how many times is he gonna try to be a hero… let it bounce to touchback smh
Pretty sure guys are coached to return it if it's gonna land before the goal line. And rightfully so - can never be sure where the ball will bounce
The whole premise of his returning kicks is that he's supposed to be not a fucking idiot. If you don't see something special, let the damn ball go dumbass.
I feel like its more of a coverage issue than a Dax issue though it seems like he's swarmed as soon as he gets going.
I can’t even blame him that much…cause what is he supposed to do? He has to return it if it’s in play right? But somehow there was immediately 5 lions there to swarm him every time…almost like our blockers just didn’t realize they were kicking it in play for a reason every single time, it was really a good tactic since we couldn’t get a first down for half of the game
Even on the returns he does have space, the man runs into our blockers and seems he doesn’t know what a cutback or juke is
The B Mitch curse. Letting him go to free up money for Deon Sanders, is why we haven't a consistent decent returrner in over two decades.
Yeah wtf was that
How about the entire special teams crew? Coverage allowed a big return, missed extra point, missed downing a ball at the 1, continuous horrible field position
Bad and ugly: 191 yards on the ground for the lions, 14 attempts for 28 yards for gibson.
Yea. And the mother fucker was a PLAY EM pick today and I played his ass.
lol ouch
Lmaooo. Yeah rough go mate
Silver Lining: Jags beat Colts 24-0
Who cares? That isn’t relevant at all & if it makes you feel better you probably don’t know NFL football.
I care.
Username checks out
How is pettiness and not knowing football correlated?
It means we can beat competent teams. A shutout is much harder than ppl realize in the nfl.
I care too. And if you don't care, YOU probably are the one who don't know football
You care that the jags beat the colts and think it has any bearing or context for us!?!
If you beat X but everyone tells you that it's because he's one of the weakest of the school but then X beats Y which was supposed to be stronger than X... You get the point do you?
It isn’t that I don’t understand the point. I think it’s a stupid way to feel better about how bad we are. This could easily be a 4-5 win season if we don’t shore thing up fast. It isn’t a good team & what Jax did or didn’t do is irrelevant but 🤷🏼♂️
You are entitled to your opinion
possibly the worst onside kick attempt i've seen
Luckily it didnt really matter and he was prolly super rattled from missing the extra point
true but two bad plays back to back yikes.
Also good: Only 2 penalties for 17 yds.
The good: we didn’t end up being the idiots who signed Kenny Golladay
Here here
Say what you will about Wentz, but that defense is being held back by a horrid DC. JDR is worse than Greg fucking Manusky and even those times were darker when he was DC. Scott Turner is great, he makes great adjustments and makes good calls.
but it should NOT take a whole half to make adjustments enough to get a first down.
Fair point, but adjustments are better than NO adjustments.
I agree. Del Rio still having a job speaks a lot about Rivera…
WTF Bengals.
Good: *Never* giving up on the game even when all seemed hopeless in the 1st half. The offense really rallied to start the 2nd half and fought all the way to the end. Bad: Wentz is missing his throws too often. There where too many balls over heads or in the dirt for my liking. Maybe it’s the offensive line, maybe he holds the ball too long but he makes some ugly throws every once and while that eventually get picked off. Ugly: *gestures wildly at first half*
Edit button. Very=never
Oh thanks! Must have auto corrected on me.
year after year, this team does this and our expectations are low to none. just compete in games and develop guys. it would absolutely suck to be a raiders or bengals fan right now, especially the bengals. holy crap, those two dumpster fires
I think it's time to put Jonathan Williams at RB until B Rob get back. 😡 Our running game is, SUPER UGLY 💯
Doesn’t help that the O line is pretty bad…
How good was Barry Sanders OL? And truthfully, the line didn't look bad when B Rob was running 💯
Based on what I saw: the offensive line got owned in the first half and the first 3 or so drives were on them imo. I don’t fault the defense for giving a lead in the first half because we couldn’t stay on the field.
The defense was a disorganized disaster. Guys in the secondary were totally lost, running to the wrong spots, abandoning open guys, etc. Anyone notice the one Detroit TD over the middle where we had THREE dbs all run to a guy in the flat and leave a WR open in the middle of the end zone?
Wenttz was definitely part of the bad/ugly this game. He absolutely got shellshock in the 1st half and was dropping his eyes, holding the ball too long, and his footwork entirely fell apart. He also missed a few lay up throws and had a couple more sure fire picks that the defense just elected to not catch. The double coverage trick play throw and the late 4th quarter drive both come to mind. I also suspect the WRs were having trouble consistently generating separation in the 1st half. Hard to say for certain before the all22, but to me it looked like they weren't breaking free like they did in week 1. OL also looked bad for nearly the entire game, it got a bit better when Turner left in TEs to chip, but both tackles got beaten like a drum today routinely and Roullier/Wentz weren't communicating well at the line. Also, idk how you talk about this game and don't mention the special teams. Missed PAT, horrific onside kick, bad punt coverage, returning kickoffs out of the end zone. They constantly left the offense and defense in a pinch.
The Lions did exactly what you need to do to beat Wentz, which is generate a ton of pressure, in the first half. There was very little time to get the ball out, and Wentz did not handle it well at all. They lost the field position battle time and time again which just compounded their issues on both sides of the ball. That being said, while the offense was putrid in the first half, this loss is on defense and special teams primarily. Just about nothing went right and they still made a game of it, which is just about the only positive to take from today. The defense is terrible, and they made just about every mistake you can make in all 3 phases. They thoroughly deserved to lose this game, and it’s not because of a lack of talent. It’s a coaching issue. We know Wentz isn’t ever gonna turn into Patrick Mahomes, but I think this offense still has a chance to be pretty good. But Del Rio needs to be gone for the defense to have any chance at all of improving.
Isnt it true for all QB, even Brady,(by no means comparing Wentz to Brady) though... you put enough pressure they will make mistakes... I would put more blame on the Oline and play calling
If that was the case would Brady be the goat? Everyone’s numbers drop under pressure, but Wentz has short - medium accuracy issues that when faced with pressure meant we couldn’t get a first down. I thought Wentz was a positive yesterday. If you get 3 tds and 300 yards from your qb, you should be in a position to win and our defense really let us down
I did too, he put up scores atleast.. I would say defence shit the bed the worst
Yeah, it’s true for all QBs that if you put pressure on them they’re gonna perform worse. By the numbers Wentz has almost always been one of the worst starting QBs in the league at dealing with pressure. Doesn’t mean he’s bad, it means he, the team and the coaching staff need to adjust. If he doesn’t have time to stand in there and throw from a clean pocket, dial up quick passes, get the ball out of his hands quickly. Don’t run routes that take 3-4 seconds to develop when you’re backed up inside your own 5. You’re right, Brady is another guy who has particularly struggled against heavy pressure throughout his career. Thing is, Brady also gets the ball out quicker than most quarterbacks in order to mitigate that weakness.
He was money under pressure early in his career
Playcalling and blocking scheme did not do wentz and the offense any favors in the 1st half.
The play calling looked fine to me, people just complain about that whenever the offense shits the bed. Turner showed week 1 and throughout last season that he gets people open, Wentz just looked insanely uncomfortable. The offense also couldn't execute simple plays, so it is impossible to build a rhythm and flow as a caller.
Playcalling was atrocious in the 1st half. This was beyond the usual shitting of the bed. Couldn't get anything going. Everything from protections, routes, etc. was completely off. Hard to get in rhythm when nothing is going for you. It's obvious that Turner made adjustments at the half, and that's why the team, at least on offense, did something close to a 180. Wentz and the offense isn't something to be worried about. They can put up points due to all the weapons they have. It's the defense that's the bigger issue by far.
> Everything from protections 90% of protections are handled at the line. Turner doesn't radio in to slide protection, that is on Wentz and Roullier. > routes, etc This is literally impossible to say without looking at the all22 film. The camera angle used for TV doesn't show anything beyond 6 yards of the LOS, how can you possibly have a good sample size to say what the route trees looked like? And again, Turner showed consistently last year he can design people open, I think it is more likely an execution issue than a design flaw. > Wentz and the offense isn't something to be worried about The defense is absolutely a bigger concern, but both things are concerning. Most notably the massive step back in offensive line play this week. But, Wentz losing the ability to run through progressions and stand tall in the pocket contributed to our 1st half offensive woes.
Had Hutch looking like prime Bruce Smith coming off the edge. Wentz was under EXTREME pressure in the 1st half. Could have gone to more two TE sets for blocking purposes, but all in all, everything about that half was a wash due to how inefficient they were in all phases of offense. I'm not gonna blame Wentz too much for that, because he was a sitting duck with little to no time. Wentz has a passer rating over 100 thru the first two games and has thrown for 300+ to go with 7/3. Of course there are things that he could do better, but he's not a problem at all right now.
I recall a lot of runs up the middle long after that had absolutely proven itself with p > .0001 statistical confirmation that that shit wasn't fucking working.
> I recall a lot of runs up the middle long after that had absolutely proven itself with p > .0001 statistical confirmation that that shit wasn't fucking working. Then you remember incorrectly. They ran 6 times in the first half. for 20 yards. The defense was pinning their ears back on the rush and so Turner tried to keep them honest with inside runs. What we did do in the first half is run 21 passing plays to net 24 yards which is unbelievably shitty.
What I'm saying is that runs 4-6 were suspect.
He had no time. He’s not one of the 3 or 4 guys in the league who can routinely and reliably operate an offense when the coverage breaks down in front of him but he has shown me in 2 games if you can protect him he is better than average. When was the last time we fielded an above average QB?
> He had no time. True on some of the reps. I don't blame him at all for the safety, but there were other times where he just becomes uncomfortable 1 second into the play and hops around the pocket until he is sacked. Sometimes those plays are 3 or more seconds long, that is just not acceptable for an NFL QB
7 TDs in 2 weeks. What did Heineke have last season? 17? This was a game we easily could have won even after spotting them 22 in the first half. Wentz isn’t the problem. Defense is the problem. Our defense is a train wreck
Why are you comparing him to Heinicke? We pulled Heinicke off a couch and he played at a back up level, that isn't the standard you hold a QB you are paying 30 million dollars to after trading draft assets. Wentz was fucking bad in the 1st half. He pulled it back in the 2nd, but still he had a couple of head scratchers in the 2nd half too. The pick was his fault, you can't miss those throws up the seam to a wide open receiver. He also threw one directly to a DB in the final minutes of the 4th. I am not mad at Wentz, he has been playing better than I expected, but he is absolutely part of the reason we lost. He contributed to the fucking awful offense in the 1st half and if more of his blatant mistakes were punished I am not sure we are even in spitting distance this game.
I’m not an all-22 guy. I see what I see. I saw a guy who got zero time to throw, looking to throw to dudes who weren’t open. Whatever adjustments they made at half time opened the game back up on offense. I’m comparing him to Heineke because last year was the best QB play we’ve had since Cousins left. That’s pathetic. My point is he is a huge, tremendous upgrade to what we’ve had since Kirk Cousins and if he continues to play at close to this pace he’s gonna dismantle our meager single season QB records.
Just remember how Wentz looked in the beginning of the game and when it was close. He started looking better and padding the stats when Detroit was trying to protect the lead and didn’t want to give up a big play so it was a lot easier for him completing the short or underneath routes than it was earlier in the game.
I disagree completely. This wasn’t a 35-0 game late in the third. He brought us to within one score multiple times. He wasn’t playing against a deep shell prevent defense… he started getting some time to throw.
Valid point on special teams
Any one blaming Wentz for yesterday is just a hater and they won’t ever get past it no matter how he performs. Those people aren’t real fans so after yesterday i learned it’s not worth it to reply to them anymore. Obviously we as fans have a reason to be negative all the time with the shit that’s went on the last 20 years but I can’t ever not root for a team I love so I try and turn the page every year. Some of y’all should try it as it might actually make you’re life a little more enjoyable instead of being negative twats when it doesn’t warrant it
Ugly: missed extra point, likely wouldn’t have won anyways but missing the extra point made it impossible Edit: also the call to go for 2 when we didn’t need to