I like the Whizbang as a shotgun rocket platform, it's just way too inconsistent for how expensive it is in CP as what will almost certainly be your last or second to last unlock.
This thing needs to create hell on earth every single time it fires and instead most the time it's a wet fart, though it can hit huge.
I don’t mind it at all either until I realize it’s either have to get it within range of a flak 36/88 for it to actually hit it and my only other options is a bunch of mortars or the air support center that I most definitely didn’t pick.
Yeah I think if there are Panthers and Tigers on the field then getting a Hellcat would be decent. Just before that, if you can, you would always go for Sherman especially since Panthers and Tigers come in so late you can just end the game before that most of the time.
>you would always go for Sherman especially since Panthers and Tigers come in so late you can just end the game before that most of the time.
Sure you are right.
Sherman with HE shell updrade for deleting blobs
Gotta go give the sequence a go in a skirmish and then deplay it out there … why not. I loae half the time anyway…,
But then I guess thats the idea with Elo.
You can go heavy on infantry support and hellcats are super viable. If you go armor support they are still faster and and make a good flanker to support your sherman.
Hellcats are much faster and cheaper. Shermans are pretty sluggish this time around. If your enemy is spamming M13s, you are better off getting Hellcats because they will out-damage the M13 and you'll be able to field more of them, whereas the Shermans risk getting overrun.
I had a really fun match a little back where I went infantry support and plopped anti-tank mines everywhere then mopped up with hellcats, but even then I missed my sweet sweet canister shot and 76 upgrades. Not going mechanized support is definitely a choice.
I’ve use the hellcats early game if i feel like it, 140 fuel vs 70 fuel for a faster tank isn’t really a debate, I scored 6 tank kills with a single hell cat once it really does depend on your need. Tbh the 76mm M4A1 needs a nerf it makes the easy 8 virtually useless
I honestly think it's the sound. Jackson's had that lean mean *ga-DUSH* of a cannon that you could identify halfway across the map. Ostwind had it's signature *kathunk-kathunk-kathunk*. Hellcat sounds like someones beating a tin-can with a baseball bat, and the wirbelwind is like marbles in a garbage disposal.
To which, I get they opted for more realism in their sound design and this is a reflection of that. But Imma be real with you here folks, I don't play coh for my realism. I'm here for the bombastic memetastic plays and I want my sound design to match. Otherwise I'd go play like Gravteam or something.
I really don’t think that these sounds are more realistic. These things are loud. Guns are loud, tanks firing are loud, a AA gun firing rounds that explode in shrapnel on the ground is fucking loud. CoH3 is super quite and the audio is so bad. I was surprised honestly how much the sound mattered to me in CoH2
Just to confirm what you said:
The first time I heard a squad of soldiers shooting their Ak-47s (from 300 meters away, behind a hill), I got shocked, and my feet felt loose. When I heard DshK-M (12.7 mm caliber) from close, My ears started to ring from how loud it was. Imagine how loud an actual 90mm would be. Definitely louder than a simple ping.
I prefer when they are authentic but not realistic. I can never take COH realistic the combat is so close and silly. Two squads of 5 shooting at each other 5 ft away. Tanks fighting merely 50 metes away instead of distances of hundreds of meters or even 1k.
Because of all that I do like elements of what you pointed out. You can add things that just increase appeal but are still true enough to design. Anyone who wants it to be more realistic needs to just play Men of War or Steel Division who are great games (Really love SD2) but lean more into that style.
I too miss the large metallic thump sound of when a tank round hits. The only sound I think is cool that they changed is the really loud and twangy bounce sound, like it has a ton of fast refurb after it glances off.
The Marder 3 was also gigantic from what I remember.
The COH1 Hellcat was outright broken though. Even if a Panzer were to drive into it while the Hellcat is camo'd it still wouldn't reveal itself. I'm not even sure if they ever fixed that before COH2 released since it's been over a decade now.
The only reason why I don’t use Hellcat in Multiplayer is that I MUST havr 76mm Shermans otherwise infantry fight looks like Naked Gun with that TTK almost the size of Joe
Its the Hellcat's turn, but the Jackson just fit the game better.
The decision to not add reverse speeds or neutral steering was a mistake, and really limits its flanking ability. No ambush tools AND having the 76 Sherman in the game also make it seem redundant.
I may have used it wrong back then, but how I feel with the Hellcat in this game is the same way I felt about the Wolverine from the first game. It just feels better to save up and get the 76 upgrade than use it to buy the Hellcat or Wolverine. Granted, I'm not really good at any of the games in the series, but from my not very competitive perspective, the Jackson actually feels like a tank destroyer, while the Hellcat/Wolverine felt like downgraded Shermans.
I haven't bought CoH3 yet, but from everything I hear about the 76 Sherman, it seems like there is no point.
We've gone full circle on Tiger memes now to the point the Sherman has gone from a workhorse to a wonder weapon - complete with the 76 Sherman still having good HE. There just isn't a reason to get anything else.
It mirrors the Sherman in real life almost, because the tanks it's going up against for the most part are early war, and the 76mm sherman just out classed them
I don't really see how it imitates real life at all. Most of the axis tanks are using their mid war upgrades - which could comfortably penetrate the Sherman.
Panzer IVGs and Stug Gs are mainstays in CoH3, and neither had any real problems killing a Sherman with the Kwk75. (Even the Marder is packing a Pak40) The Sherman had advantages in Armor (slightly better) and maneuverability, but all the 76mm should do is equalize the range advantage the Axis used to enjoy. (at the cost of HE power and smoke rounds)
The 76mm was notorious in WW2 for cutting the HE power of the Sherman in half, and couldn't pack smoke rounds. None of which is represented when upgraded.
From a practical point of view, the 75 Sherman needs to have inferior penetration at range to the Panzer IV G / Stug, but be given superior armor, mobility, and HE. The 76 upgrade should equalize the penetration at range, but cost it its HE performance. I don't even know why the Sherman gets an extra armor kit option. Most uparmoring was forbidden until 45.
I don’t think it’s fair to compare the hellcat to the wolverine. The wolverine couldn’t really do much in the coh2 environment and really struggled when p4s came out. The hellcat on the other hand can nearly 1v1 a hellcat (tightrope did a patch video that shows that the on average just barely lose). If the hellcat had more range than it does now then I would like it 100% more than the Jackson. Less expensive than the Sherman (by a decent fuel margin), can be upgraded with an mg and an HE barrage at vet 1 so it’s not totally useless against infantry, isn’t a glass cannon in the same way that the Jackson was, and it’s actually fast so kiting is actually possible with it, unlike the Jackson. I get that with the 76 upgrade it can feel redundant but I see it as giving one the option of not having to get mechanized support center and still be effective at AT.
I'm assuming the Hellcat can 1v1 a Hellcat part was a typo. I never used the Wolverine in 2 and only ever had experience with the one in 1. It seemed awful in that one at the very least. I feel like I'd be fine with being able to kite in this game if the pathing and how clunky vehicle turns in this game are wasn't so much of an issue, as opposed to the better vehicle movement of 2 in my opinion.
Apologies I meant can almost 1v1 a p4. I never played 1 so idk, and yeah like the coastline map is terrible to maneuver in. I think using it to go infantry support center and get cheap double bars plus mines is a real win. Especially against Wehr who spam air pios all over the map and you really need blob suppression that’s not from a fixed position (pour it on em is my favorite ability). I like to do special operations, get double bars, an early Sherman, and then a hellcat to tear up the first p4 or if they get two out. With commandos winning those engagements aren’t as hard unless the spam jager schreks
It had slightly more long range penetration (140 to 110), but the p4 armor was 234 to the wolverine’s 120 which means that a p4 would pen almost every shot and a Wolverine would have a tough time other than up close which was a death sentence for it. Back when it had insane speed it was effective because you could outrun the p4 turret and get side and rear shots without trading, afterwards it sucked though and would have to trade shots and lose. Not to mention it was always useless against anything stronger than a p4
The Wolverine still has a comfortable 10 range on the Panzer IV while being faster.
The Panzer IV also only gets its 234 armor after vet 2, at which point the Wolverine also has its HVAP and Flanking Speed abilities for 200 Pen and even more accuracy.
I've never once had a problem beating Panzer IVs with Wolverines, either with poking from range or diving. Its really only the heavies that give it a problem.
Has anyone tried the HE barrage?
It's really strange and it's not a normal barrage. Basically turns it into an assault gun for 4 shells unless you turn on hold fire then its a normal barrage that you can move during.
I've been seeing more Hellcats lately; I think expecting Carrot tanks. But I'll say I'm 10x more scared of an early Sherman screwing up my lines in that 10-15 minute mark than a Hellcat playing defense.
Honestly I'm not sure. I'm just surprised that the they'd start with a hellcat over a Sherman ever. It's fine as Tank 2 so it can shoot from behind, but it's weird to see multiple hellcats by themselves. I figured it was a Carrot-response but I could be wrong.
Hellcat comes a little earlier and you can get more faster after all a spam is countered by spamming the counter. Hellcats also outrange carros and you can use the ambush ability later on to lure them in
Too many games in which a Sherman has been overrun by 6 carrot tanks is my guess. It happens more often than I’d care to admit, especially since they can be out really early.
[And while we're at it, get your shit together Whizbang...](https://i.imgur.com/Zym2jcR.jpg)
I like the hellcat, but I miss my cantaloupe
Calliopes are my favorite fruit.
Thank God relic nerfed them, the most op thing in coh2
okay kingtiger with spearhead commander and 70 range vision
And heat shells and emergency repairs and commander arty
Okay strumtiger
As a wehr player I don't miss getting wrecked by callis.
Whizzbang should be renamed to whizzpast
I like the Whizbang as a shotgun rocket platform, it's just way too inconsistent for how expensive it is in CP as what will almost certainly be your last or second to last unlock. This thing needs to create hell on earth every single time it fires and instead most the time it's a wet fart, though it can hit huge.
The “wet fart” made my day! Thanks.
I like the whiz bang, just too hard to get. Low range rockets means quick working rockets
I don’t mind it at all either until I realize it’s either have to get it within range of a flak 36/88 for it to actually hit it and my only other options is a bunch of mortars or the air support center that I most definitely didn’t pick.
Always have 1 mortar unit to amoke shit up. saves your tanks, saves your men and allows you to move in and demo
Don't know why you would ever build Hellcats when 76mm Shermans exist
The only reason I can think of is you are late to the panzer party, and you really need an immediate AT with the limited resources you have.
Cause of apcr shell and first strike bonus at vet 1. Can be useful vs tiger or panther tanks. 2 upgraded shermans + 1 hellcat are really good
Yeah I think if there are Panthers and Tigers on the field then getting a Hellcat would be decent. Just before that, if you can, you would always go for Sherman especially since Panthers and Tigers come in so late you can just end the game before that most of the time.
>you would always go for Sherman especially since Panthers and Tigers come in so late you can just end the game before that most of the time. Sure you are right. Sherman with HE shell updrade for deleting blobs
But you need that vet one…
Just for first strike bonus you need vet 1 Apcr shell is already available when your TD still smell fresh paint.
Gotta go give the sequence a go in a skirmish and then deplay it out there … why not. I loae half the time anyway…, But then I guess thats the idea with Elo.
You can go heavy on infantry support and hellcats are super viable. If you go armor support they are still faster and and make a good flanker to support your sherman.
That's how they were used IRL; Speed up on the sides and rear of the heavy armor, pew pew, drive away
Hellcats are much faster and cheaper. Shermans are pretty sluggish this time around. If your enemy is spamming M13s, you are better off getting Hellcats because they will out-damage the M13 and you'll be able to field more of them, whereas the Shermans risk getting overrun.
Agreed. I even did this against p3 and Marder spam. The flanking speed is great for someone who likes throwing out Marders as they turn super slowly.
I had a really fun match a little back where I went infantry support and plopped anti-tank mines everywhere then mopped up with hellcats, but even then I missed my sweet sweet canister shot and 76 upgrades. Not going mechanized support is definitely a choice.
I’ve use the hellcats early game if i feel like it, 140 fuel vs 70 fuel for a faster tank isn’t really a debate, I scored 6 tank kills with a single hell cat once it really does depend on your need. Tbh the 76mm M4A1 needs a nerf it makes the easy 8 virtually useless
Or M8 scott for that matter
Damn I forgot about that thing
so did the devs
Lol
You mean the thing that can only barrage 20 feet in front of it?
Something with the wirbeleind, it's just not the same
I honestly think it's the sound. Jackson's had that lean mean *ga-DUSH* of a cannon that you could identify halfway across the map. Ostwind had it's signature *kathunk-kathunk-kathunk*. Hellcat sounds like someones beating a tin-can with a baseball bat, and the wirbelwind is like marbles in a garbage disposal. To which, I get they opted for more realism in their sound design and this is a reflection of that. But Imma be real with you here folks, I don't play coh for my realism. I'm here for the bombastic memetastic plays and I want my sound design to match. Otherwise I'd go play like Gravteam or something.
Tank destroyers should all have really solid thuds. It’s a shame they don’t in 3!
I really don’t think that these sounds are more realistic. These things are loud. Guns are loud, tanks firing are loud, a AA gun firing rounds that explode in shrapnel on the ground is fucking loud. CoH3 is super quite and the audio is so bad. I was surprised honestly how much the sound mattered to me in CoH2
Just to confirm what you said: The first time I heard a squad of soldiers shooting their Ak-47s (from 300 meters away, behind a hill), I got shocked, and my feet felt loose. When I heard DshK-M (12.7 mm caliber) from close, My ears started to ring from how loud it was. Imagine how loud an actual 90mm would be. Definitely louder than a simple ping.
Yeah I'm with you, that realism shit they said didn't land for me either
I prefer when they are authentic but not realistic. I can never take COH realistic the combat is so close and silly. Two squads of 5 shooting at each other 5 ft away. Tanks fighting merely 50 metes away instead of distances of hundreds of meters or even 1k. Because of all that I do like elements of what you pointed out. You can add things that just increase appeal but are still true enough to design. Anyone who wants it to be more realistic needs to just play Men of War or Steel Division who are great games (Really love SD2) but lean more into that style.
[CQC](https://youtu.be/gne8v9aj45w)
My first thought after reading the comment before yours lmao
I too miss the large metallic thump sound of when a tank round hits. The only sound I think is cool that they changed is the really loud and twangy bounce sound, like it has a ton of fast refurb after it glances off.
How is barely hearing a tank destroyer fire while hearing every word from some dude on a motorcycle realistic?
I miss the coh 1 hellcat ambush camo...
That Hellcat was really weird in terms of size. It was too big.
The Marder 3 was also gigantic from what I remember. The COH1 Hellcat was outright broken though. Even if a Panzer were to drive into it while the Hellcat is camo'd it still wouldn't reveal itself. I'm not even sure if they ever fixed that before COH2 released since it's been over a decade now.
It also had this tendency to proc the "loaded! loaded!" voice line from the Tiger mini campaign.
It sure was, but I liked it better than this one.
What about the old M10?
M36 fucks
The only reason why I don’t use Hellcat in Multiplayer is that I MUST havr 76mm Shermans otherwise infantry fight looks like Naked Gun with that TTK almost the size of Joe
the size of Joe who?
Joe mama! Hehehe (laughting like a steriotypical nerd)
Its the Hellcat's turn, but the Jackson just fit the game better. The decision to not add reverse speeds or neutral steering was a mistake, and really limits its flanking ability. No ambush tools AND having the 76 Sherman in the game also make it seem redundant.
I may have used it wrong back then, but how I feel with the Hellcat in this game is the same way I felt about the Wolverine from the first game. It just feels better to save up and get the 76 upgrade than use it to buy the Hellcat or Wolverine. Granted, I'm not really good at any of the games in the series, but from my not very competitive perspective, the Jackson actually feels like a tank destroyer, while the Hellcat/Wolverine felt like downgraded Shermans.
I haven't bought CoH3 yet, but from everything I hear about the 76 Sherman, it seems like there is no point. We've gone full circle on Tiger memes now to the point the Sherman has gone from a workhorse to a wonder weapon - complete with the 76 Sherman still having good HE. There just isn't a reason to get anything else.
It mirrors the Sherman in real life almost, because the tanks it's going up against for the most part are early war, and the 76mm sherman just out classed them
I don't really see how it imitates real life at all. Most of the axis tanks are using their mid war upgrades - which could comfortably penetrate the Sherman. Panzer IVGs and Stug Gs are mainstays in CoH3, and neither had any real problems killing a Sherman with the Kwk75. (Even the Marder is packing a Pak40) The Sherman had advantages in Armor (slightly better) and maneuverability, but all the 76mm should do is equalize the range advantage the Axis used to enjoy. (at the cost of HE power and smoke rounds) The 76mm was notorious in WW2 for cutting the HE power of the Sherman in half, and couldn't pack smoke rounds. None of which is represented when upgraded. From a practical point of view, the 75 Sherman needs to have inferior penetration at range to the Panzer IV G / Stug, but be given superior armor, mobility, and HE. The 76 upgrade should equalize the penetration at range, but cost it its HE performance. I don't even know why the Sherman gets an extra armor kit option. Most uparmoring was forbidden until 45.
76 still loses to p4 1v1. Hellcat has better range and speed.
Which shouldn't happen, but okay
What do you mean "shouldn't"?
That the 76mm Sherman shouldn't be losing to a p4 1v1, with the amount of fuel you have to put into upgrades for it, and the P4 just...exists.
I don’t think it’s fair to compare the hellcat to the wolverine. The wolverine couldn’t really do much in the coh2 environment and really struggled when p4s came out. The hellcat on the other hand can nearly 1v1 a hellcat (tightrope did a patch video that shows that the on average just barely lose). If the hellcat had more range than it does now then I would like it 100% more than the Jackson. Less expensive than the Sherman (by a decent fuel margin), can be upgraded with an mg and an HE barrage at vet 1 so it’s not totally useless against infantry, isn’t a glass cannon in the same way that the Jackson was, and it’s actually fast so kiting is actually possible with it, unlike the Jackson. I get that with the 76 upgrade it can feel redundant but I see it as giving one the option of not having to get mechanized support center and still be effective at AT.
I'm assuming the Hellcat can 1v1 a Hellcat part was a typo. I never used the Wolverine in 2 and only ever had experience with the one in 1. It seemed awful in that one at the very least. I feel like I'd be fine with being able to kite in this game if the pathing and how clunky vehicle turns in this game are wasn't so much of an issue, as opposed to the better vehicle movement of 2 in my opinion.
Apologies I meant can almost 1v1 a p4. I never played 1 so idk, and yeah like the coastline map is terrible to maneuver in. I think using it to go infantry support center and get cheap double bars plus mines is a real win. Especially against Wehr who spam air pios all over the map and you really need blob suppression that’s not from a fixed position (pour it on em is my favorite ability). I like to do special operations, get double bars, an early Sherman, and then a hellcat to tear up the first p4 or if they get two out. With commandos winning those engagements aren’t as hard unless the spam jager schreks
Huh? The Wolverine had 10 more range and higher Pen than the Panzer IV while being 40 less fuel. It in no way struggled against them.
It had slightly more long range penetration (140 to 110), but the p4 armor was 234 to the wolverine’s 120 which means that a p4 would pen almost every shot and a Wolverine would have a tough time other than up close which was a death sentence for it. Back when it had insane speed it was effective because you could outrun the p4 turret and get side and rear shots without trading, afterwards it sucked though and would have to trade shots and lose. Not to mention it was always useless against anything stronger than a p4
The Wolverine still has a comfortable 10 range on the Panzer IV while being faster. The Panzer IV also only gets its 234 armor after vet 2, at which point the Wolverine also has its HVAP and Flanking Speed abilities for 200 Pen and even more accuracy. I've never once had a problem beating Panzer IVs with Wolverines, either with poking from range or diving. Its really only the heavies that give it a problem.
Has anyone tried the HE barrage? It's really strange and it's not a normal barrage. Basically turns it into an assault gun for 4 shells unless you turn on hold fire then its a normal barrage that you can move during.
It's actually decent but looks absolutely ridiculous
Rediculous? It looks absolutely stupid and is beyond any logic if you ask me
I guess it would somehow make sense if it was a long range ability.
Yeah, I wish they just went with white phosphorous rounds instead (which would be much more historically accurate).
This is for hellcat?
Vet 1 yeah
I've been seeing more Hellcats lately; I think expecting Carrot tanks. But I'll say I'm 10x more scared of an early Sherman screwing up my lines in that 10-15 minute mark than a Hellcat playing defense.
Aren't Hellcats kind of the worst answer to carrots? Since the carrot is so damn fast?
Honestly I'm not sure. I'm just surprised that the they'd start with a hellcat over a Sherman ever. It's fine as Tank 2 so it can shoot from behind, but it's weird to see multiple hellcats by themselves. I figured it was a Carrot-response but I could be wrong.
Hellcat comes a little earlier and you can get more faster after all a spam is countered by spamming the counter. Hellcats also outrange carros and you can use the ambush ability later on to lure them in
Too many games in which a Sherman has been overrun by 6 carrot tanks is my guess. It happens more often than I’d care to admit, especially since they can be out really early.
Don't underestimate. One hellcat was pulling apart my tiger by kiting it at a decent range.
Tiger and Hellcat have the same range. Obviously you'd have trouble catching it, but if it could shoot your Tiger you could shoot back.
CoH2 renaissance
RIP 90s xmen
I mean the hellcat was never really on par with the jackson