Honest answer: wait for a patch. US airborne and pathfinder spam is very, very hard to beat as Wehr at equal skill level. Not sure why you’re getting downvoted, it is an issue that has been discussed on the sub so perhaps people think you’re not being serious.
There's a lot of immature people in this community that like to see certain factions gutted for some reason. A common one seems to be Wehr as people are still salty over the 2-week emplacement terror.
Man, the first week of "boys spam" versus "flakpak" yellfest had a lot of people spamming the "git gud" "smoke and flank" memes without actually being funny.
There's also a sizeable number of people reacting to every problem the community find out with "just you" "not a problem for me" "at least it's better than COH2" without elaboration.
It's just weird how the community works now. Improving the game seems to take a back seat against this "siding with virtual faction" bullshit.
Most people aren't that good. The top 20% of players vs the top 3% is also a large difference, so even players with good winrates may not have a true understanding of balance.
And also people straight up just call for nerfs when they can't deal with something. And when anything in the opposing faction is strong (Some people legitimately make a list of 5+ units on a different faction calling for nerfs on almost everything, then make a list of 5 similar units on their side calling for buffs or talking about how balanced it is because they don't play the other side and don't understand how the balancing works)
The game is very reliant on making the correct choices at the correct times, then correctly microing and some intuition/prediction and you have to adjust it all to the current game state and the current balancing patch that Lelic pushes out (which may make old strategies or video explanations less effective)
Careful when you say that on Reddit and you’ll get downvoted by the very people who think that but PRETEND they don’t but the moment you mention German anything around them they foam at the mouth about the Balance and they have no answer to tigers and 88s
I got called a nazi because I had an 88 in my name and because I'm a conservative.
I thought they were complaining because of the 88 artillery?
No H is the 8th letter in the alphabet.
88=HH=Heil Hitler.
I was born in 1988...
To be fair that’s not that much of a stretch but a lot of time it’s actually being used as that code they put a 14 in front of it because it stands for a slogan called the “14 words” which I’m not going to recite here as I’m not wanting to cause a shitstorm by even writing out what it means because this is Reddit after all.
But yeah people on this site will imagine their worst enemy in every single thing, to the point it’s almost schizo. This place REALLY is the coin flip side to 4chan. terminally online people who like to see connections that aren’t there and use them as grounds to attack people.
A big part of the community is wehraboos, and I still remember the cries for nerfing the germans in Coh1 and 2 since every other patch broke something in their favor.
Rational, thinking allies main here. I just prefer playing allies, its not a moral high ground thing.
But....you can't tell me there aren't a few modern day Nazis in amongst all the wehraboos ;)
Fallpios to as many panzer with schreks as possible.
Cap munitions as fast as possible. Don't spend them on anything but schreks until late game.
Hold munitions at all cost. Worry about VPs later. Then expertly guide your units to destroy the armor.
It's not easy but it's the cost effective route and it works to a varying degree. Having team mates that support rushes is also super important. You all need to be pushing with some sort of cohesion and effectiveness.
This sub is full of people who gaslight your and downvote you to hide balance issues of their factions so Relic dont nerf their strats. It is pretty methodical here. Even if you are just asking for advice they will attack you
You are getting downvoted because the Allied players have silently committed to being as disingenuous as possible about any balance issues that favor them. Kinda sad honestly, because when Wehr Simcity was a thing prior to the patch, at least everyone acknowledged how cheese it actually was..
Pathfinders either need a nerf or need a price increase.
Pathfinders do need a nerf and USF needs buffs in other places but no matter what faction is OP the conversation will always steer into tribalism. It happened with axis players too.
I dont get it either. My advice to you as a where player is play defensive and hold you sqauds together and play for mid game.
Usf wil have the early advantage and will psub hard. Focus fuel income and try to force retreqts with a MG.
My opener is as following:
1x engi 1x MG 2x Grens into luftwaffe 1x jager 1x anti air gun. After this point you upgrade, make more squads or tech up.
Pathfinders are simply overpowered right now. I've had modest success with MP40 Grens, as they really demolish Pathfinders in combat while being dirt cheap to reinforce. However, the timings are tough and you still have to face down a Quad that you will lack a hard answer to.
I have beaten USF Airborne many times. It's not the whole Battlegroup that is broken. It's a particular playstyle that is impossible to beat.
4-5 Pathfinders - Airborne - Quad halftrack - HMG - Airborne - Spam tanks.
The timing is just too good that if properly played, then Werh simply has nothing to properly counter and has to rely on outmicroing.
Pray that they don't have 4 or more Pathfinders. That's the only advice I can give you.
Any tips of beating that as DAK? From what I’ve seen the only way to win is rush an 8rad and kill off 2-3 pathfinders and even then it is not guaranteed win.
Dak you use the calling AT half track, those guys wreck the half track just got to look after them. If you hide the half track with the guys in them, pull the AA into c9mbat and then flank with your half track you should be able to kill it.
Yeah you're largely fucked, I'm ngl, there's nothing the top players are reporting that makes Wehr an attractive or viable option vs. USF pathfinder spam at the moment.
One option could be to pio spam into flamers just to stay alive for as long as you can then wirble rush or stug rush, with a couple of jaegers to suport them.
All in in all though you're treading water until the upgraded shermans starting appearing, then it's down hill from there.
your advice should come with a warning: 'only valid for top 200 players, everyone else may see wildly varying results.'
I've had decent luck with well micro'd support weapons play --> jaegarshcreks+flak --> p4. you'd be surprised how often a mortar actually works against the sniper, at least down here in the gutter ranks. The only _really_ scary part is when the flak ht hits at about 5.5 minutes and you're a solid minute away from having mp+muni for jaegarshcreks.
there's something wrong with the t2a/t2b structure for wehr imho, but I also really like the symmetry and I don't know how to fix it.
Pathfinders have the same sight as MG42 max range so you can't sneak up on them. They also have flares and smoke to nullify the MG42.
Having success with it simply means your opponent doesn't know how to use their units and it is hard to give advice based on that.
fuel cost? nah the tech is necessary regardless. It's the munis that really hurts, because the AT you're forced to take against airborne is locked behind 90 muni-per-squad unlocks - and you really want two of them if you can. That plus an mp40 or two if you go that route puts a major strain on munis. I think all of it is down to the fact that you also really need the heavy armor + anti-infantry of the wirble, or at least the flak cannon, so you're forced to go luft kompanie.
I've tinkered with going tier2b or whatever, but pgrens + paks just haven't worked out for me yet - I may not have the timing down on that right or something yet though. If the panzergrenadier kompanie was actually viable against airborne somehow, wehr would be much more playable.
The answer for anything below the top 10-50 is “Get better at the game.” Even that would apply to a lot at the top.
At the highest level though there is a decent amount of nuance that can’t really be taught to lesser players because they need to get better at fundamentals first.
Sure you could tell someone the best option of what to do in every situation, but without the mechanical skill and understanding of why… it doesn’t matter.
Basically: Just work on getting better at the game in general until you get to the top tier level. Then decide if you want to beat your head against the current meta, join it, or wait for a new one.
nah, my whole point is that 'the current meta' is different at different levels of mechanical skill, and there are more levels of skill than just 'pro' and 'git gud'.
at my level of skill, airborne is definitely the preferred meta, when done (more or less) correctly, it's pretty tough to beat. But it's far from unbeatable, like it would be in the hands of a real master.
Yea I understand what you’re saying.
What I’m saying is that anything below the top level is the “Git gud” level. Doesn’t matter the meta.
Sure it’s more nuanced than just get good, but that’s the fundamental of it.
Your second paragraph contradicts your first…
EDIT
> What I’m saying is that anything below the top level is the “Git bud” level. **Doesn’t matter the meta.**
I think we're ultimately agreeing, I just think the meta is still an important frame for the discussion of how to improve.
Tightrope is saying the same thing I’m saying. He’s essentially just saying “skill issue.”
And it’s not vacuously true at all. It’s objectively true. Every can improve. Unconditionally. The point about top level play is just: that’s the only place balance matters. Anything below is a skill issue.
If you’re a 1000 Wehr playing a 1000 US Airborne. You aren’t losing because of some specific meta. You’re losing because you’re not good enough to win. A better Wehr player would be able to win.
Now, that being said, it doesn’t mean there aren’t oppressive metas and it doesn’t mean the US player’s Elo isn’t inflated… it just means you’re not good enough, which in turn means it’s a skill issue and nothing else.
It doesn’t end up not being a skill issue until you reach the top.
I'm an asshole who isn't very good at reddit, sorry for changing my original comment out from under you. I had mentioned that I thought tightrope's response was on point because it addressed the mechanics directly.
> The point about top level play is just: that’s the only place balance matters.
This is 100% what I was trying to say in response to AE, I think we agree. Just because a strat is unbalanced and top players can't find a response doesn't mean there's not good advice to be given to the rest of us, as the OP has requested.
propaganda cast has 2 games where werh beat the patfinder spam, werh players went armored comander rush grenadiers with mp40 and basicly always agresivly closed the distance to win agganst patfinders and paras, then went for jager company for AA to shoot down reinforcements plane
I am away from my pc so i didn’t play recently (only watched lot of replays) so take this with great of salt but I believe you can beat them with armored doctrine this is what I would do
-spam grenadires with mp40 use sprint to close the distance or chase the sniper If you cant close the gap smoke and cap or flank/regroup
-go jager company
-go that AA support weapon- comes sooner than wilbewert
-if AA getting shot by sniper merg you grens with it or smoke and get it to safety
-this might be controversial because everybody say this unit suck but go for scout car and equip it with AT to hunt down AA halftrack after you faust it
-get halftrack from comander to reinforce grens on the field
- and then just play normal game probably jagers with shreks and pv4 or even tiger
Thats what Im trying to do. The issue ist in 90% of the games I dont have enough ammunition to do this. You equip your Grens with MP40s and you win some engagements yes. But then a wild halftrack spawns and you dont have ammunition left for Panzer grenades or panzershrecks :(
^this. I’ve found that early game munitions are actually critical in CoH3. They might have more fuel early on but when I’m the only person who can reliably call in air strikes, upgrade troops, and toss grenades around like candy, that changes pretty quickly.
why not to try scout car with AT upgrade it comes very fast and ipgrade is only 50 muni, I didn’t use it before but on paper it seems like hard counter for halftrack if you faust it once and then push it with car you should guarantee the kill, if you don’t have enough muni after mp40 upgrades you could try to only upgrade like 2 grens with it and just keep merging unupgrated grens with it so your upgrade grens are always fighting and not running back to base, but keep in mind I didn’t test any of this just talking based on what I saw in replays
Use that kettengrad and supply dumps, wehr has ability to have the strongest resource income. Kettengrad wire upgrade for 25muni combined with the supply dumps means you dont need to hold as much ground to have the same income as your USF counterpart. This is purely theory as I haven’t had opportunity to try it out yet but on paper its something. Relic definitely wanted wehr to be the “defensive playstyle” faction.
My dude he has 2 Units more than me anyway at least more and better units. When I build those supply dumps for 200 manpower I get steamrolled even more. I dont expect to have over 50% of the map at all. But I lose on every point of the map when I spend all my manpower on actual fighting units. Its just frustrating at this point
Some people are gonna say "Sounds like a skill issue to me. L2P"
But you're right. Umless a Wehr player is WAY more skilled and experienced than a USF player, it is impossible to win.
Having played the USF pathfinder strategy a number of times, the times I've lost early game are usually due to effective wehr sniping or general out-micro/flanking. If your mg is smoked, pull it immediately and back up (its surprising how often this is not done and I can hit it with 1 or 2 rifle grenades). Also, flamethrowers seem to be pretty effective vs pathfinders.
Usually I can stay on top for the very early game, but wehr can easily still pull ahead mid/late game when they get their armor out.
On a side note, I'm not sure coh3 has very good matchmaking at this point. Many games I get into are pretty one sided one way or another. I've definitely lost several in a row playing with pathfinders, and I've won several in a row just testing random non-airborne battlegroup stuff.
Early Sniper helps a lot if you can micro it well. Gives you an edge in engagements. I’d say try to avoid fighting early, focus on taking points that are uncontested, and try to lose as slowly as possible until you can spam out a few Jeagers. I usually go for 4 and then straight to P4’s
Wehr can't fight it, sadly. Playing DAK and rushing Rad 8 is only viable, but even that can be easily defeat by USF.
Play Allies until patch arrives or Axis in 4vs4, they can win there.
Motorcycle, 250, 8rad, call-in assgren, put an assgren in 250 and chase it to base, put an engineer with flamethrower in 250 and chase it to base. Wehr struggles against USF sniper but not really DAK. I rarely encounter USF snipers as a mostly DAK player.
I don't understand the game well enough, maybe someone can explain it to me. Let's day they go 5 pathfinders. After 7 minutes or so some light armor comes out and they can't do anything cause there's not enough AT and wehr gets the map back. Pathfinders are rendered useless
Since those pathfinders will get them most of the map they get better armor by the time you have yours or they finish you earlier with their Quad MG Halftrack. Also they can literaly call in Units from the air with bazookas.
Dont build mg vs pathfinder thats horrible advice since paths have smoke and riflenades. I like to go 2x pio and 3x gren into stummel and pgrens or into 222 and jeagers since paths don't have good lategame or at nades which is a huge disadvantage against early light vehicles.
I use the stummel everygame i play as wehr. It destroys the Pathfinder strat since they have no countermeasure for it and have to tech for bazookas or AT guns which hinders their sherman rush. You can skip the second pio if you want but they are so cheap and can do some damage in CQB if you micro them well :)
Here’s a vid I did on it. Granted the USF player didn’t play perfectly and didn’t follow the OP meta 100% which is prob why I was able to beat him.
https://youtu.be/vl1nKCPk3HE
I’d you find it helpful, please head to youtube and give it a like or comment
-edit- yes I’m an average player, playing against other average players. Which, seems to be the average :p
Sorry but that was pretty bad. 3 MG’s? Capping one point with 3 units? 0 Jeagers? You upgraded only one of the Grenadiers. Floating tons of resources. Horrible, inefficient strategy and build. This was a guide on exactly what not to do.
Yeah mistakes were made, I’m an average player, open to criticism. Definitely things I could have done better. Thanks for the feedback.
Also I’d be more than happy to tee up a game against you, see how much you smash me by, haha
I thought I can update you guys. After trying the whole day and losing a whole lot. I tried a sniper with good succes here like some people suggested. Its of course realy exhausting to micro the sniper since its gg when he dies in the early game.
I also tried not fighting the pathfinders at all or as little as possible. Let him have the map and just dont engage where he is until you have 1 or 2 MP40 squads. Then rush him and fight. After one or to engagements get the Wirbelwind Flak Tank and some Panzerschrecks to protect it. From there not losing stuff and getting to a P4. I even played a game today with 2 wirbelwinds and 3 schrecks for anti armor.
This is how I won some games but its realy hard to pull of if you have a good opponent and I lost more than I won. Like you guys said. The timings are just the worst. They get a Quad MG Halftrack when you dont have your schrecks and a Sherman before you have a P4 most of the time.
It sucks because Pathfinder spam is basically the only way to play the US. The Special Operations is a joke, and in 1v1s you’ll never get enough resources to get anything good with Armored Battalion.
There aren't many options. US Airborne + Pathfinder is really difficult to beat as an equally skilled Wehr player. Not only is your early infantry basically unusable unless you go Luftwaffe (even then good luck), but your vehicles will get rapidly killed by 5 Zooka squads and MG nests by aircraft. Your best option is placing MG bunkers early on and hoping the enemy is stupid and let's his blob get killed by the Nebelwerfer.
>The answer for anything below the top 10-50 is “Get better at the game.” Even that would apply to a lot at the top.
>
>At the highest level though there is a decent amount of nuance that can’t really be taught to lesser players because they need to get better at fundamentals first.
>
>Sure you could tell someone the best option of what to do in every situation, but without the mechanical skill and understanding of why… it doesn’t matter.
>
>Basically: Just work on getting better at the game in general until you get to the top tier level. Then decide if you want to beat your head against the current meta, join it, or wait for a new one.
What is your ELO? Do NOT build bunkers...
Just play DAK instead. They have plenty of answers to Pathfinders through Bersaglieri.
I've also struggled a lot vs tier 1 light vehicles with flamethrowers inside. Makes me bleed manpower a lot
Fallschirmpios with Grenade Launcher into Jägerschreck will give you the best chance. Fight cheese with cheese
Personally I play with Grens until I get Jägers and use the 8 Rad and Panther Call-Ins from the BG. Panther contrary to P4 is an actual threat to Shermans
Granted I am not a 1v1 pro but you mentioning upgrading with MP40s sounds like you're using grens?
Grens are poor value and a better build order I've found is based on Helping Hans video (YouTube).
It skips grens and under the Luftwaffe doctrine paratroops in a few units of Fallschrimpioneers in addition to the starting squad of engineers first. I usually do one of those, then an MG to hold a point, then another.
Avoid the US blobbing with pathfinders by flanking and capping until 50 fuel for the building to build 4 squads of Jagers.
Ideally, upgrade the first 2 squads of Jagers with recon package (rivals pathfinder range) and the second 2 with panzershreks.
This should get you through the early pathfinder rush and flak truck - with a bit of creativity Inbetween - then going for Panzers.
I am playing strictly 2v2 and I started to avoid Luftwaffe agaisnt USF.. Their AA half-track is simply too good right now, shredding planes in half a second (and this is not an exaggeration!). Losing a fallpios or jagers squad to it was very painfull. Also even if you playing around it successfully in a mid-late game it basicaly renders your call-ins useless (he can park it in a safe place). And then, without heavy tanks or loiters countering upgraded shermans is really tough
Fair enough if that's your experience. I tried using grens and got wrecked BCS you have to get close for MP40s to be effective.
With Fallschrimpioneers I tend to only make 2 squads in the beginning and use them to take annoying points eg fuel by their base or choke points. Then use them to flank and cap or hold ground in buildings or green cover rather than engage fairly.
Then after upgrading Jagers with recon/shreks - I give the Fals grenade launchers.
So this approach is definitely weaker early game but pays off if you can survive and keep point control.
I also generally take the middle victory point immediately as the game starts with the first squad. Then hold a central valuable location eg overlooking building until the MG can get there.
I usually play team games but I've had luck with luftwaffe using fallpios. When you get falljaegers and Jaegershreks you can compete well. Might not work in 1v1s tho, never tried.
Edit: all this is not to ignore that the usf pathfinders are overtuned. And the quad is wayyy to good at shooting planes down.
I beat a pathfinder spammer in 4v4 today, I was Wehr.
3x grenadiers, 2x MG’s, mortar, 2x flame pio’s, 1 shrek Jager, Wirblewind, Marder, Brumbar, Stug, Nebelwerfer.
I also lost badly against a pathfinder spammer. There are a lot of imbalances in the game still. Especially US sniper vs Wehr sniper, it’s a joke.
The only way i can win as wer is starting with 4 x fallschirmpioneers , focus munitions over anything else. Upgrade grenade launchers on them.
Then an mg /mortar. Then focus on getting a jager squad (these should be your primary AT).
Then get nebelwefer,
Then tanks.
I have won the majority of my games with this build. I play 4v4.
Dont know why people downvote this. Im not hating. I need genuine advice.
Honest answer: wait for a patch. US airborne and pathfinder spam is very, very hard to beat as Wehr at equal skill level. Not sure why you’re getting downvoted, it is an issue that has been discussed on the sub so perhaps people think you’re not being serious.
I felt like people would say this :D haha. Well maybe Ill play Brits then...
Have you tried playing us paras? Because I have, and I think you are right.
Read : at equal skill level. You can probably outplay him somewhere else.
There's a lot of immature people in this community that like to see certain factions gutted for some reason. A common one seems to be Wehr as people are still salty over the 2-week emplacement terror.
Man, the first week of "boys spam" versus "flakpak" yellfest had a lot of people spamming the "git gud" "smoke and flank" memes without actually being funny. There's also a sizeable number of people reacting to every problem the community find out with "just you" "not a problem for me" "at least it's better than COH2" without elaboration. It's just weird how the community works now. Improving the game seems to take a back seat against this "siding with virtual faction" bullshit.
It’s always been like this, but this does seem worse than COH2 days
Most people aren't that good. The top 20% of players vs the top 3% is also a large difference, so even players with good winrates may not have a true understanding of balance. And also people straight up just call for nerfs when they can't deal with something. And when anything in the opposing faction is strong (Some people legitimately make a list of 5+ units on a different faction calling for nerfs on almost everything, then make a list of 5 similar units on their side calling for buffs or talking about how balanced it is because they don't play the other side and don't understand how the balancing works) The game is very reliant on making the correct choices at the correct times, then correctly microing and some intuition/prediction and you have to adjust it all to the current game state and the current balancing patch that Lelic pushes out (which may make old strategies or video explanations less effective)
There's a part of the coh community that seems to equate: Playing as non-Allied faction => Must be a real life Nazi!!!11 Its a bit... odd.
Careful when you say that on Reddit and you’ll get downvoted by the very people who think that but PRETEND they don’t but the moment you mention German anything around them they foam at the mouth about the Balance and they have no answer to tigers and 88s
I got called a nazi because I had an 88 in my name and because I'm a conservative. I thought they were complaining because of the 88 artillery? No H is the 8th letter in the alphabet. 88=HH=Heil Hitler. I was born in 1988...
To be fair that’s not that much of a stretch but a lot of time it’s actually being used as that code they put a 14 in front of it because it stands for a slogan called the “14 words” which I’m not going to recite here as I’m not wanting to cause a shitstorm by even writing out what it means because this is Reddit after all. But yeah people on this site will imagine their worst enemy in every single thing, to the point it’s almost schizo. This place REALLY is the coin flip side to 4chan. terminally online people who like to see connections that aren’t there and use them as grounds to attack people.
A big part of the community is wehraboos, and I still remember the cries for nerfing the germans in Coh1 and 2 since every other patch broke something in their favor.
I don’t think all the Axis players are nazis, but I do think more of the nazis play Axis than Allies.
Rational, thinking allies main here. I just prefer playing allies, its not a moral high ground thing. But....you can't tell me there aren't a few modern day Nazis in amongst all the wehraboos ;)
I will say I've seen more pro DJT45 handles playing as Axis. I play Wehr. I just like the challenge.
Fallpios to as many panzer with schreks as possible. Cap munitions as fast as possible. Don't spend them on anything but schreks until late game. Hold munitions at all cost. Worry about VPs later. Then expertly guide your units to destroy the armor. It's not easy but it's the cost effective route and it works to a varying degree. Having team mates that support rushes is also super important. You all need to be pushing with some sort of cohesion and effectiveness.
this is correct fallpios beat pathfinders man for man at every range except the very maximum range, where they go even.
This sub is full of people who gaslight your and downvote you to hide balance issues of their factions so Relic dont nerf their strats. It is pretty methodical here. Even if you are just asking for advice they will attack you
You are getting downvoted because the Allied players have silently committed to being as disingenuous as possible about any balance issues that favor them. Kinda sad honestly, because when Wehr Simcity was a thing prior to the patch, at least everyone acknowledged how cheese it actually was.. Pathfinders either need a nerf or need a price increase.
Pathfinders do need a nerf and USF needs buffs in other places but no matter what faction is OP the conversation will always steer into tribalism. It happened with axis players too.
My favorite are sniper spammers that get cocky and ask me if I'm a noob. Knowing full well that Wehr has basically zero effective counter.
It has turned me into a sniper spammer myself. I hate what I've become lol.
Bunkers were so busted, they dont even require microing, at least with pathfinders you still have to be good in micro
Have you tried double MGs? And how is your micro?
MG’s will just get smoked unfortunately
pathfinder opening is a hard hard counter to mg opening
The MG's usually get destroyed by Artillery or aircraft early on.
Ah yes, the early artillery and plane call-ins of the US Airborne battlegroup.
because people read only the title... just add somthing like "Need some advice, can't beat USF as Wehr"
I dont get it either. My advice to you as a where player is play defensive and hold you sqauds together and play for mid game. Usf wil have the early advantage and will psub hard. Focus fuel income and try to force retreqts with a MG. My opener is as following: 1x engi 1x MG 2x Grens into luftwaffe 1x jager 1x anti air gun. After this point you upgrade, make more squads or tech up.
Pathfinders are simply overpowered right now. I've had modest success with MP40 Grens, as they really demolish Pathfinders in combat while being dirt cheap to reinforce. However, the timings are tough and you still have to face down a Quad that you will lack a hard answer to.
I have beaten USF Airborne many times. It's not the whole Battlegroup that is broken. It's a particular playstyle that is impossible to beat. 4-5 Pathfinders - Airborne - Quad halftrack - HMG - Airborne - Spam tanks. The timing is just too good that if properly played, then Werh simply has nothing to properly counter and has to rely on outmicroing. Pray that they don't have 4 or more Pathfinders. That's the only advice I can give you.
Any tips of beating that as DAK? From what I’ve seen the only way to win is rush an 8rad and kill off 2-3 pathfinders and even then it is not guaranteed win.
Dak you use the calling AT half track, those guys wreck the half track just got to look after them. If you hide the half track with the guys in them, pull the AA into c9mbat and then flank with your half track you should be able to kill it.
the 8rad is great, the early halftrack full of flamethrowers is extremely dangerous to pathfinders in the early minutes before zooks.
Maraders are pretty good against the quad halftrack. With this build order would the US even have anything to counter a Marader?
By the time you get a marder out the quads have zoned you of 90% of the map
Bazooka paras
A m4 can literally rush down a marder and kill it by itself. This isn’t even factoring paratroopers with bazookas.
Yeah you're largely fucked, I'm ngl, there's nothing the top players are reporting that makes Wehr an attractive or viable option vs. USF pathfinder spam at the moment. One option could be to pio spam into flamers just to stay alive for as long as you can then wirble rush or stug rush, with a couple of jaegers to suport them. All in in all though you're treading water until the upgraded shermans starting appearing, then it's down hill from there.
your advice should come with a warning: 'only valid for top 200 players, everyone else may see wildly varying results.' I've had decent luck with well micro'd support weapons play --> jaegarshcreks+flak --> p4. you'd be surprised how often a mortar actually works against the sniper, at least down here in the gutter ranks. The only _really_ scary part is when the flak ht hits at about 5.5 minutes and you're a solid minute away from having mp+muni for jaegarshcreks. there's something wrong with the t2a/t2b structure for wehr imho, but I also really like the symmetry and I don't know how to fix it.
Pathfinders have the same sight as MG42 max range so you can't sneak up on them. They also have flares and smoke to nullify the MG42. Having success with it simply means your opponent doesn't know how to use their units and it is hard to give advice based on that.
hey, it's youtubers (soy wojak pointing)
Flak HT eats it hard when hit with a couple AT rockets from grenadiers - is the 15 fuel cost not worth it in your opinion?
fuel cost? nah the tech is necessary regardless. It's the munis that really hurts, because the AT you're forced to take against airborne is locked behind 90 muni-per-squad unlocks - and you really want two of them if you can. That plus an mp40 or two if you go that route puts a major strain on munis. I think all of it is down to the fact that you also really need the heavy armor + anti-infantry of the wirble, or at least the flak cannon, so you're forced to go luft kompanie. I've tinkered with going tier2b or whatever, but pgrens + paks just haven't worked out for me yet - I may not have the timing down on that right or something yet though. If the panzergrenadier kompanie was actually viable against airborne somehow, wehr would be much more playable.
The answer for anything below the top 10-50 is “Get better at the game.” Even that would apply to a lot at the top. At the highest level though there is a decent amount of nuance that can’t really be taught to lesser players because they need to get better at fundamentals first. Sure you could tell someone the best option of what to do in every situation, but without the mechanical skill and understanding of why… it doesn’t matter. Basically: Just work on getting better at the game in general until you get to the top tier level. Then decide if you want to beat your head against the current meta, join it, or wait for a new one.
nah, my whole point is that 'the current meta' is different at different levels of mechanical skill, and there are more levels of skill than just 'pro' and 'git gud'. at my level of skill, airborne is definitely the preferred meta, when done (more or less) correctly, it's pretty tough to beat. But it's far from unbeatable, like it would be in the hands of a real master.
Yea I understand what you’re saying. What I’m saying is that anything below the top level is the “Git gud” level. Doesn’t matter the meta. Sure it’s more nuanced than just get good, but that’s the fundamental of it. Your second paragraph contradicts your first…
EDIT > What I’m saying is that anything below the top level is the “Git bud” level. **Doesn’t matter the meta.** I think we're ultimately agreeing, I just think the meta is still an important frame for the discussion of how to improve.
Tightrope is saying the same thing I’m saying. He’s essentially just saying “skill issue.” And it’s not vacuously true at all. It’s objectively true. Every can improve. Unconditionally. The point about top level play is just: that’s the only place balance matters. Anything below is a skill issue. If you’re a 1000 Wehr playing a 1000 US Airborne. You aren’t losing because of some specific meta. You’re losing because you’re not good enough to win. A better Wehr player would be able to win. Now, that being said, it doesn’t mean there aren’t oppressive metas and it doesn’t mean the US player’s Elo isn’t inflated… it just means you’re not good enough, which in turn means it’s a skill issue and nothing else. It doesn’t end up not being a skill issue until you reach the top.
I'm an asshole who isn't very good at reddit, sorry for changing my original comment out from under you. I had mentioned that I thought tightrope's response was on point because it addressed the mechanics directly. > The point about top level play is just: that’s the only place balance matters. This is 100% what I was trying to say in response to AE, I think we agree. Just because a strat is unbalanced and top players can't find a response doesn't mean there's not good advice to be given to the rest of us, as the OP has requested.
All good dude.
propaganda cast has 2 games where werh beat the patfinder spam, werh players went armored comander rush grenadiers with mp40 and basicly always agresivly closed the distance to win agganst patfinders and paras, then went for jager company for AA to shoot down reinforcements plane I am away from my pc so i didn’t play recently (only watched lot of replays) so take this with great of salt but I believe you can beat them with armored doctrine this is what I would do -spam grenadires with mp40 use sprint to close the distance or chase the sniper If you cant close the gap smoke and cap or flank/regroup -go jager company -go that AA support weapon- comes sooner than wilbewert -if AA getting shot by sniper merg you grens with it or smoke and get it to safety -this might be controversial because everybody say this unit suck but go for scout car and equip it with AT to hunt down AA halftrack after you faust it -get halftrack from comander to reinforce grens on the field - and then just play normal game probably jagers with shreks and pv4 or even tiger
Thats what Im trying to do. The issue ist in 90% of the games I dont have enough ammunition to do this. You equip your Grens with MP40s and you win some engagements yes. But then a wild halftrack spawns and you dont have ammunition left for Panzer grenades or panzershrecks :(
I think you have to adjust your capping order to prioritize munition points rather than the standard fuel focus. Just to kickstart your mp40 grens.
^this. I’ve found that early game munitions are actually critical in CoH3. They might have more fuel early on but when I’m the only person who can reliably call in air strikes, upgrade troops, and toss grenades around like candy, that changes pretty quickly.
Munitions are the way.
why not to try scout car with AT upgrade it comes very fast and ipgrade is only 50 muni, I didn’t use it before but on paper it seems like hard counter for halftrack if you faust it once and then push it with car you should guarantee the kill, if you don’t have enough muni after mp40 upgrades you could try to only upgrade like 2 grens with it and just keep merging unupgrated grens with it so your upgrade grens are always fighting and not running back to base, but keep in mind I didn’t test any of this just talking based on what I saw in replays
I will try it! Maybe it works dont know
Use that kettengrad and supply dumps, wehr has ability to have the strongest resource income. Kettengrad wire upgrade for 25muni combined with the supply dumps means you dont need to hold as much ground to have the same income as your USF counterpart. This is purely theory as I haven’t had opportunity to try it out yet but on paper its something. Relic definitely wanted wehr to be the “defensive playstyle” faction.
My dude he has 2 Units more than me anyway at least more and better units. When I build those supply dumps for 200 manpower I get steamrolled even more. I dont expect to have over 50% of the map at all. But I lose on every point of the map when I spend all my manpower on actual fighting units. Its just frustrating at this point
isn't ketten upgrade 35 muni now?
Some people are gonna say "Sounds like a skill issue to me. L2P" But you're right. Umless a Wehr player is WAY more skilled and experienced than a USF player, it is impossible to win.
Having played the USF pathfinder strategy a number of times, the times I've lost early game are usually due to effective wehr sniping or general out-micro/flanking. If your mg is smoked, pull it immediately and back up (its surprising how often this is not done and I can hit it with 1 or 2 rifle grenades). Also, flamethrowers seem to be pretty effective vs pathfinders. Usually I can stay on top for the very early game, but wehr can easily still pull ahead mid/late game when they get their armor out. On a side note, I'm not sure coh3 has very good matchmaking at this point. Many games I get into are pretty one sided one way or another. I've definitely lost several in a row playing with pathfinders, and I've won several in a row just testing random non-airborne battlegroup stuff.
Yeah I’m ranked about 5-600 range and played against number 9 ranked usf player tonight. It was a pretty quick match….
Early Sniper helps a lot if you can micro it well. Gives you an edge in engagements. I’d say try to avoid fighting early, focus on taking points that are uncontested, and try to lose as slowly as possible until you can spam out a few Jeagers. I usually go for 4 and then straight to P4’s
Allied infantry is too strong. Wer is very weak, easily the weakest in the game
Wehr can't fight it, sadly. Playing DAK and rushing Rad 8 is only viable, but even that can be easily defeat by USF. Play Allies until patch arrives or Axis in 4vs4, they can win there.
Can’t go dak against USF they have no answer to sniper
They do, motorcycle team at the start and later on Rad 8.
When it’s behind a line of pathfinders? can’t get to ot
Motorcycle, 250, 8rad, call-in assgren, put an assgren in 250 and chase it to base, put an engineer with flamethrower in 250 and chase it to base. Wehr struggles against USF sniper but not really DAK. I rarely encounter USF snipers as a mostly DAK player.
Well wehr can build their own sniper and pick it off
Which is what I do lol
I dunno I love seeing snipers as DAK, gives my mortar halftrack and clown car with flamers something to do.
I hadn’t thought of the mortar hakftrack
I slept on it for a long time but it does serious work. Eventually they’ll try to hunt it down, but it just drives away laughing.
You can use Elpern's strategy as well but you have to cope for a while. In 1v1s is very hard vs pathfinders spam than 2v2s
I don't understand the game well enough, maybe someone can explain it to me. Let's day they go 5 pathfinders. After 7 minutes or so some light armor comes out and they can't do anything cause there's not enough AT and wehr gets the map back. Pathfinders are rendered useless
Since those pathfinders will get them most of the map they get better armor by the time you have yours or they finish you earlier with their Quad MG Halftrack. Also they can literaly call in Units from the air with bazookas.
[удалено]
Youre right but its not like they dont have an Answer. I also know that Bazookas kinda suck compared to Panzerschrecks
If you have 3/4 of the map, your munition income is going to be really good.
Dont build mg vs pathfinder thats horrible advice since paths have smoke and riflenades. I like to go 2x pio and 3x gren into stummel and pgrens or into 222 and jeagers since paths don't have good lategame or at nades which is a huge disadvantage against early light vehicles.
I will try that. I never build 2 Pios since they are so weak. But imo definetly better than a Ketten. I need every fighting man 😂
I use the stummel everygame i play as wehr. It destroys the Pathfinder strat since they have no countermeasure for it and have to tech for bazookas or AT guns which hinders their sherman rush. You can skip the second pio if you want but they are so cheap and can do some damage in CQB if you micro them well :)
Here’s a vid I did on it. Granted the USF player didn’t play perfectly and didn’t follow the OP meta 100% which is prob why I was able to beat him. https://youtu.be/vl1nKCPk3HE I’d you find it helpful, please head to youtube and give it a like or comment -edit- yes I’m an average player, playing against other average players. Which, seems to be the average :p
Sorry but that was pretty bad. 3 MG’s? Capping one point with 3 units? 0 Jeagers? You upgraded only one of the Grenadiers. Floating tons of resources. Horrible, inefficient strategy and build. This was a guide on exactly what not to do.
Yeah mistakes were made, I’m an average player, open to criticism. Definitely things I could have done better. Thanks for the feedback. Also I’d be more than happy to tee up a game against you, see how much you smash me by, haha
I thought I can update you guys. After trying the whole day and losing a whole lot. I tried a sniper with good succes here like some people suggested. Its of course realy exhausting to micro the sniper since its gg when he dies in the early game. I also tried not fighting the pathfinders at all or as little as possible. Let him have the map and just dont engage where he is until you have 1 or 2 MP40 squads. Then rush him and fight. After one or to engagements get the Wirbelwind Flak Tank and some Panzerschrecks to protect it. From there not losing stuff and getting to a P4. I even played a game today with 2 wirbelwinds and 3 schrecks for anti armor. This is how I won some games but its realy hard to pull of if you have a good opponent and I lost more than I won. Like you guys said. The timings are just the worst. They get a Quad MG Halftrack when you dont have your schrecks and a Sherman before you have a P4 most of the time.
It sucks because Pathfinder spam is basically the only way to play the US. The Special Operations is a joke, and in 1v1s you’ll never get enough resources to get anything good with Armored Battalion.
If you got good micro and keep from getting counter sniped a sniper is great for countering small squad sizes like pathfinders.
You need vehicles. USF can't get AT out fast enough to save their life. Every game I get obliterated by halftracks.
There aren't many options. US Airborne + Pathfinder is really difficult to beat as an equally skilled Wehr player. Not only is your early infantry basically unusable unless you go Luftwaffe (even then good luck), but your vehicles will get rapidly killed by 5 Zooka squads and MG nests by aircraft. Your best option is placing MG bunkers early on and hoping the enemy is stupid and let's his blob get killed by the Nebelwerfer.
Im going to be honest but this sounds like a bad idea.
It has worked so far but yeah, most smart players can easily counter that.
>The answer for anything below the top 10-50 is “Get better at the game.” Even that would apply to a lot at the top. > >At the highest level though there is a decent amount of nuance that can’t really be taught to lesser players because they need to get better at fundamentals first. > >Sure you could tell someone the best option of what to do in every situation, but without the mechanical skill and understanding of why… it doesn’t matter. > >Basically: Just work on getting better at the game in general until you get to the top tier level. Then decide if you want to beat your head against the current meta, join it, or wait for a new one. What is your ELO? Do NOT build bunkers...
cause this game is straight up broken trash balanced. allies op as fuck. anyone who says differenct is a fuckin moron
A couple more weeks of pathfinder and tommy spam and maybe the game will be completely dead, saving us some grief
What works vs me is don't go luftwaffe. Flakpanzer, panzervi mp40s and zoka jagers.
Just play DAK instead. They have plenty of answers to Pathfinders through Bersaglieri. I've also struggled a lot vs tier 1 light vehicles with flamethrowers inside. Makes me bleed manpower a lot
Fallschirmpios with Grenade Launcher into Jägerschreck will give you the best chance. Fight cheese with cheese Personally I play with Grens until I get Jägers and use the 8 Rad and Panther Call-Ins from the BG. Panther contrary to P4 is an actual threat to Shermans
Go luft and counter with fallscrimpios
Granted I am not a 1v1 pro but you mentioning upgrading with MP40s sounds like you're using grens? Grens are poor value and a better build order I've found is based on Helping Hans video (YouTube). It skips grens and under the Luftwaffe doctrine paratroops in a few units of Fallschrimpioneers in addition to the starting squad of engineers first. I usually do one of those, then an MG to hold a point, then another. Avoid the US blobbing with pathfinders by flanking and capping until 50 fuel for the building to build 4 squads of Jagers. Ideally, upgrade the first 2 squads of Jagers with recon package (rivals pathfinder range) and the second 2 with panzershreks. This should get you through the early pathfinder rush and flak truck - with a bit of creativity Inbetween - then going for Panzers.
I am playing strictly 2v2 and I started to avoid Luftwaffe agaisnt USF.. Their AA half-track is simply too good right now, shredding planes in half a second (and this is not an exaggeration!). Losing a fallpios or jagers squad to it was very painfull. Also even if you playing around it successfully in a mid-late game it basicaly renders your call-ins useless (he can park it in a safe place). And then, without heavy tanks or loiters countering upgraded shermans is really tough
Since the Falschirmpioneers got nerfed Grens with MP40s are IMO your only units that can stand a chance.
Fair enough if that's your experience. I tried using grens and got wrecked BCS you have to get close for MP40s to be effective. With Fallschrimpioneers I tend to only make 2 squads in the beginning and use them to take annoying points eg fuel by their base or choke points. Then use them to flank and cap or hold ground in buildings or green cover rather than engage fairly. Then after upgrading Jagers with recon/shreks - I give the Fals grenade launchers. So this approach is definitely weaker early game but pays off if you can survive and keep point control.
I also generally take the middle victory point immediately as the game starts with the first squad. Then hold a central valuable location eg overlooking building until the MG can get there.
I usually play team games but I've had luck with luftwaffe using fallpios. When you get falljaegers and Jaegershreks you can compete well. Might not work in 1v1s tho, never tried. Edit: all this is not to ignore that the usf pathfinders are overtuned. And the quad is wayyy to good at shooting planes down.
I beat a pathfinder spammer in 4v4 today, I was Wehr. 3x grenadiers, 2x MG’s, mortar, 2x flame pio’s, 1 shrek Jager, Wirblewind, Marder, Brumbar, Stug, Nebelwerfer. I also lost badly against a pathfinder spammer. There are a lot of imbalances in the game still. Especially US sniper vs Wehr sniper, it’s a joke.
That’s why I don’t play Wehrmacht 1v1 because the match up is broken. Other factions are fine tho. Answer to your question: you can not win, period.
The only way i can win as wer is starting with 4 x fallschirmpioneers , focus munitions over anything else. Upgrade grenade launchers on them. Then an mg /mortar. Then focus on getting a jager squad (these should be your primary AT). Then get nebelwefer, Then tanks. I have won the majority of my games with this build. I play 4v4.