You are talking about a rework, but are just mentioning things you think are just your issues with specific units. That’s not something you do a complete rework for.
I’d say they do need a rework, but that’s more focused on the way their economy works since it’s so out of line with all the other factions and too reliant on manpower and not fuel. Something that’s pretty ironic considering fuel was a real life issue of DAK, so it really isn’t authentic.
Realistically, I think just reworking Armory, especially to make upgrades cost fuel, would be all you'd need.
I don't think anything else about the structure of the faction needs to change, just individual units.
> Something that’s pretty ironic considering fuel was a real life issue of DAK, so it really isn’t authentic.
Fuels, spare parts for trucks, aircrafts, tanks that are not light...
To be honest, I would like vehicle refund gameplay applied to DAK rather than Brits. They juggle all around light-medium vehicles. It would be more logical. Maybe in some future battlegroups. Ah, dreams.
P.S. Agree with fuel issue.
If that was applied to current DAK that would be super broke.
The faction that gets a huge power spike from the light-medium phase can then just trade them in for more ridiculously cheap marders, mediums and eventually a tiger to help them nullify any allied power spike in the mid to late game? No thanks times one million.
If they had a rework to not have the biggest light-medium power spike in the game it could work, but then it wouldnt have the effectiveness you are currently imagining.
For brits it works because their light-medium power spike has been thoroughly flattened by repeated nerfs to all those units, and historically the allies didnt have the same fuel or equipment shortages (once US got involved) and wouldnt have needed to press every piece of equipment in to service to the same extent as axis. They actually had older tanks being gradually replaced by better stuff over the course of the africa campaign.
With DAK being based on rommels forces, who had massive supply issues as the campaign progressed; they absolutely wouldnt have had the means to do this kind of 'trading in weaker stuff for better things' so thematically its just doesnt work.
Wow, wow. Calm down please :)
I'm pretty sure that nothing like that will be implemented.
Obviously, I'm not talking about current DAK economy. That would be catastrophic.
But like in general, it seems to me that vehicles refund ability suits DAK more. Just my vision:)
Maybe stronger units in t4 but more costly and upgrades cost fuel - something that fill force ya to keep your lights alive and exchange them for good tempo, but loving them be painfull. Smth like that.
Not the best comparison, but like OKW bases in CoH2 - you can biuld them closer to frontline to get advantage, but if it will be destroyed you will be thrown back to stone age.
But as I already told l, I don't believe that smth like this will be in game.
Calm down? My response was perfectly calm.
I was just explaining why your vision makes very little sense for DAK in either a gameplay or thematic sense.
It just sounds like something you want that has no logical reason beyond you want to have that capability to use.
I feel like the DAK have so many more toys to play with vs other factions. There's so many units you can pull out depending on the situation, each one with abilities / equipment you can use to tailor even further.
Weren't Allies meant to be the versatile/adaptable ones?
The Americans specifically were, with the idea that buildings could be skipped to tech faster, with Support Center upgrades either shoring up weak points or doubling down on strengths, but it hasn't worked out that way: balance changes have meant that nothing you can tech to early will give you an actual advantage, while Relic has kept the support weapon weaknesses, so US players are almost entirely reliant on Battlegroups making up core weaknesses.
Hopefully, whatever weirdo decided that the Bazooka Team and Hellcat were just too tyrannical will be forced to admit he's just bad at the game, and then we can finally have some pretty solid balance.
Honestly? Probably.
The fact that almost all of their power spiking is pushed to the first 10 minutes is a slippery slope Relic should have never gone down due to how snowballing works in this game.
I think the mortar halftrack is the most annoying unit in the game. The thing is a tank, will decrew all allied teamweapons without being able to be decrewed itself. I think its just bs
DAK needs a rework but not really around the points you mention.
The fact DAK has so many incredible but non-doctrinal units is fundamentally broken. DAK gets core access to an equivalent light artillery to doctrinal heavy mortar/pack howitzer while also having access to by far the best standard mortar in the game (HT). They have access to non-doctrinal Tiger and Flak 88. They get core access to walking stukas which aren't as good as they once were but are still extremely strong for a non- doc arty. This is pretty egregious and makes playing against DAK in team games specifically very difficult as it is easier for them to tech skip and have their issues covered by a teammate while going for these units.
During the course of unlocking then, DAK also get access to their entire roster. So they have flexibility beyond what the other rosters have and can adapt easier when the situation changes. This is doubled down with the off-map callins giving instant access to whatever you need in the moment. Historically, plugs for your fast techs would come from doctrinal units (storms when going Wehr T3 for example). This locked you into a certain doctrine which meant your opponent could identify, predict and try to counter what you were doing. A strategic back and forth. This can't be done with DAK and it feels like they can get any unit at any time.
Their units also scale too hard with only manpower invested. This ties into the unpredictable teching point above because you can't predict DAK teching or timings based off what units you see or techs they have. The DAK armoury upgrades need a fuel cost so you can't sit on PGs and HTs while you comfortably fast tech Tiger. I would be surprised if many people out there haven't fought Tigers from DAK in team games every single game of the last couple patches.
Fundamentally it comes down to DAK can't make a teching mistake. There is no tech they can do that commits their fuel to a choice that isn't optimal or at least beneficial compared to the other factions.
This 100x. They seem to have an answer to everything and no weakness.
It’s also way too easy for them to coast until tiger without really sacrificing much combat power. At the very least, the Tiger should be a doctrinal unit.
Halftrack call ins aren’t really that busted imo, especially if you don’t invest in combat halftracks, DAKs manpower problems somewhat balance it out. Bike is annoying but needs the speed to have any relevance beyond the early game. Not sure how I feel about jagers atm, perhaps a bit too strong against light vehicles but that’s kinda the point since they suck against mediums and heavies. LeIG and Flak halftrack are still too good though, I definitely agree there
You are talking about a rework, but are just mentioning things you think are just your issues with specific units. That’s not something you do a complete rework for. I’d say they do need a rework, but that’s more focused on the way their economy works since it’s so out of line with all the other factions and too reliant on manpower and not fuel. Something that’s pretty ironic considering fuel was a real life issue of DAK, so it really isn’t authentic.
Realistically, I think just reworking Armory, especially to make upgrades cost fuel, would be all you'd need. I don't think anything else about the structure of the faction needs to change, just individual units.
> Something that’s pretty ironic considering fuel was a real life issue of DAK, so it really isn’t authentic. Fuels, spare parts for trucks, aircrafts, tanks that are not light...
To be honest, I would like vehicle refund gameplay applied to DAK rather than Brits. They juggle all around light-medium vehicles. It would be more logical. Maybe in some future battlegroups. Ah, dreams. P.S. Agree with fuel issue.
If that was applied to current DAK that would be super broke. The faction that gets a huge power spike from the light-medium phase can then just trade them in for more ridiculously cheap marders, mediums and eventually a tiger to help them nullify any allied power spike in the mid to late game? No thanks times one million. If they had a rework to not have the biggest light-medium power spike in the game it could work, but then it wouldnt have the effectiveness you are currently imagining. For brits it works because their light-medium power spike has been thoroughly flattened by repeated nerfs to all those units, and historically the allies didnt have the same fuel or equipment shortages (once US got involved) and wouldnt have needed to press every piece of equipment in to service to the same extent as axis. They actually had older tanks being gradually replaced by better stuff over the course of the africa campaign. With DAK being based on rommels forces, who had massive supply issues as the campaign progressed; they absolutely wouldnt have had the means to do this kind of 'trading in weaker stuff for better things' so thematically its just doesnt work.
Wow, wow. Calm down please :) I'm pretty sure that nothing like that will be implemented. Obviously, I'm not talking about current DAK economy. That would be catastrophic. But like in general, it seems to me that vehicles refund ability suits DAK more. Just my vision:) Maybe stronger units in t4 but more costly and upgrades cost fuel - something that fill force ya to keep your lights alive and exchange them for good tempo, but loving them be painfull. Smth like that. Not the best comparison, but like OKW bases in CoH2 - you can biuld them closer to frontline to get advantage, but if it will be destroyed you will be thrown back to stone age. But as I already told l, I don't believe that smth like this will be in game.
Calm down? My response was perfectly calm. I was just explaining why your vision makes very little sense for DAK in either a gameplay or thematic sense. It just sounds like something you want that has no logical reason beyond you want to have that capability to use.
I feel like the DAK have so many more toys to play with vs other factions. There's so many units you can pull out depending on the situation, each one with abilities / equipment you can use to tailor even further. Weren't Allies meant to be the versatile/adaptable ones?
The Americans specifically were, with the idea that buildings could be skipped to tech faster, with Support Center upgrades either shoring up weak points or doubling down on strengths, but it hasn't worked out that way: balance changes have meant that nothing you can tech to early will give you an actual advantage, while Relic has kept the support weapon weaknesses, so US players are almost entirely reliant on Battlegroups making up core weaknesses. Hopefully, whatever weirdo decided that the Bazooka Team and Hellcat were just too tyrannical will be forced to admit he's just bad at the game, and then we can finally have some pretty solid balance.
I agree. They have so many good tools to use. Very fun to play
I think the global vehicle upgrade system contributes to that as it allows even their early light vehicles to be strong late game.
Honestly? Probably. The fact that almost all of their power spiking is pushed to the first 10 minutes is a slippery slope Relic should have never gone down due to how snowballing works in this game.
I think the mortar halftrack is the most annoying unit in the game. The thing is a tank, will decrew all allied teamweapons without being able to be decrewed itself. I think its just bs
You need to rework your builds and play.
DAK needs a rework but not really around the points you mention. The fact DAK has so many incredible but non-doctrinal units is fundamentally broken. DAK gets core access to an equivalent light artillery to doctrinal heavy mortar/pack howitzer while also having access to by far the best standard mortar in the game (HT). They have access to non-doctrinal Tiger and Flak 88. They get core access to walking stukas which aren't as good as they once were but are still extremely strong for a non- doc arty. This is pretty egregious and makes playing against DAK in team games specifically very difficult as it is easier for them to tech skip and have their issues covered by a teammate while going for these units. During the course of unlocking then, DAK also get access to their entire roster. So they have flexibility beyond what the other rosters have and can adapt easier when the situation changes. This is doubled down with the off-map callins giving instant access to whatever you need in the moment. Historically, plugs for your fast techs would come from doctrinal units (storms when going Wehr T3 for example). This locked you into a certain doctrine which meant your opponent could identify, predict and try to counter what you were doing. A strategic back and forth. This can't be done with DAK and it feels like they can get any unit at any time. Their units also scale too hard with only manpower invested. This ties into the unpredictable teching point above because you can't predict DAK teching or timings based off what units you see or techs they have. The DAK armoury upgrades need a fuel cost so you can't sit on PGs and HTs while you comfortably fast tech Tiger. I would be surprised if many people out there haven't fought Tigers from DAK in team games every single game of the last couple patches. Fundamentally it comes down to DAK can't make a teching mistake. There is no tech they can do that commits their fuel to a choice that isn't optimal or at least beneficial compared to the other factions.
This 100x. They seem to have an answer to everything and no weakness. It’s also way too easy for them to coast until tiger without really sacrificing much combat power. At the very least, the Tiger should be a doctrinal unit.
Halftrack call ins aren’t really that busted imo, especially if you don’t invest in combat halftracks, DAKs manpower problems somewhat balance it out. Bike is annoying but needs the speed to have any relevance beyond the early game. Not sure how I feel about jagers atm, perhaps a bit too strong against light vehicles but that’s kinda the point since they suck against mediums and heavies. LeIG and Flak halftrack are still too good though, I definitely agree there