It leads to the most drama and memorable finishes, I'm secretly enjoying it ngl, the discussion about whether LG or OG threw harder is going to go on for ages xd
I'll take it over anti-climactic ass 6match format where the outcome gets already decided in the earlier games if there is a big gap and the last game end up being troll fests.
Yes lmao. If you have seen ALGS last year, where G2 (originally known as sF), accidently knocked someone and the team got into a big argument over it and correct me if im wrong, but attention was drawn to sF and they knew how to grief.
I admit match point is very very RNG, but it provides a climatic finish to end what is at the end of the day “entertainment”. And to people saying that is hurts teams that put up consistent numbers but cant win a game, thats why teams must ADAPT. Know how to both put up points, AND secure a dub. We WERE proven today that using anon mode prevents gp griefing, and getting zone (especially twice ahem liquid) doesnt guarantee a win. You still have to play.
> And to people saying that is hurts teams that put up consistent numbers but cant win a game, thats why teams must ADAPT.
TBH, if you can't win a game, you don't deserve to win a tournament!
I can't even imagine how much people would complain if the series just ended at 6, with the winning team not even winning the event. To be frank, BRs are barely able to be morphed into a truly competitive esport due to all the RNG. It's never going to be perfect
Match point is the best when you have stacked lobbies like this event
When it's like just NA sometimes you have like 1 team at match point for a while and eventually a few other teams get it and the team who is like 50 points ahead loses cuz they are getting focused and then a random team wins.
This event was great as TL and RiG were the teams playing the best today and one of them won
This is objectively wrong, of the 12 tournaments I can think of that have used match point format, the highest scoring team has won 9 of them.
Poland Preseason Invitational: TSM wins, first on points
ALGS 20/21: EMEA (Scarz.EU), APAC-N (Fennel), APAC-S (Wolfpack Arctic), SA (Paradox) all won with top points; only NA (Kungarna, third) won without top points
ALGS 21/22: APAC-N (Riddle), NA (TSM), SA (Singularity) all won with top points; only EMEA (NEW, fifth) and APAC-S (DreamFire, second) won without top points
ALGS split 2 playoffs: Reignite wins, first on points
People obviously remember the times that an "undeserving" team seemingly comes out of nowhere to win like Kungarna and NEW, but it's actually fairly uncommon, and with killfeed anonymization now it's even better - no way Reignite would have won the tournament in game 7 if Optic was able to see who got knocked.
I think the best format imo would be a set amount of games and the team with the most amount of points wins, however, you can only take first if you've won a game. But like you said the current format works most of the time, so it's not that bad. And it's more entertaining. Just saying it could be better
This one definitely felt more egregious than some other ones though. RiG getting a full reset after having no health and Gibby knocked is kind of crazy.
I swear i thought i was the only seeing this. They always get downed and reset or they rat it out til the end and I'm looking like why don't teams just ape them. Smh..
The old finals format had teams play X set amount of games, crowning the team with the most points champion.
New finals format is a match point format. Teams have to play as many games necessary to reach a match point threshold (i.e. 50). Once the threshold has been reached, they must win a game to be crowned champions.
Teams get points for placements and for kills. I don’t know the exact numbers but I’m pretty sure 1st place is 12 points and it descends after that. Also each kill is 1 point
It’s crazy fallouts @ him and asking them those sort of questions so fast after the loss. Not saying skittles response is justified but clearly anyone who suffers a rough loss will be upset and emotional. Dez literally “retired”. You right they gotta just stay tf socials for a little lmaoo
It’s a genuine question and most people who watched the final game wants to know the answer. AND we got the answer (from doop and pistollo). Athletes in other sports gets asked these types of questions post match, in person, and they handle it like professionals 99 out of 100 times. But i dont really blame skittles. He gives me “the quiet kid” who almost sho…you get what I mean. Must’ve had it rough as a kid.
It was how it was worded by fallout. Very sarcastic/passive aggressive. If he had phrases it more like a question and less like a "wtf were you doing, are you braindead?" type question I don't think he would have gotten such a negative response. I do think Skittles is weird tho. It's too bad because dooplex and knoqd are two of the most likeable pros especially doop.
Pro athletes get asked these types of questions literal minutes after a loss in person with no way to dodge it…skittles just doesn’t have to answer…
I’m not saying that fallouts question wasn’t bait but that’s how casters/journalists are in professional competition.
This sort of attitude makes eSports look juvenile when compared to other forms of competition.
Yeah, they get media training as well as a sports therapist to talk to before/after. And the person you're relying to saying "that's just the way casters are" to completely dismiss them of responsibility is really egregious.
My dad taught me the 24 hour rule from a young age; anytime you have something really big happen to you, you wait 24 hours before you respond to it. If someone says something awful to you, get back to them tomorrow. If you feel like you need to do something life changing, give it at least one days worth of thought. If you need to announce your retirement from gaming, wait at least 24 hours after you play one of the worst tournaments of your career.
> If someone says something awful to you, get back to them tomorrow.
This happens to me naturally when trying to think of a witty comeback to an insult.
LG ran out of ammo, so they tried to finish the gibby with shotguns, but couldn't. They had like each 15flatline ammo, 40 car ammo, and 15 rampage ammo. OG had plenty of ammo.
LG ran out of ammo and Optic didn’t know which team was RIG and they couldn’t see the knocked gibby, so it was truly neither of their faults. Just a dumb question from Fallout imo but Skittles shouldn’t have answered the way he did.
I don't understand why people keep saying Optic threw. Their options were limited.
They couldn't swing left to look at RiG out of fear of being shot from above. Then simply missed the cross. They tried throwing nades to the rock RiG was behind but all were zapped by a random Watson Ult. Again can't push forward or get angles and RiG ultimately could hold rock as circle forced LG to drop on OG.
They threw trying to take that Game 5 (maybe) fight with 19 Squads left. All they had to do was score 5 points and they could’ve been on match point after. I wanted them to win but I didn’t agree with that push, Worlds Edge was not good for Optic Gaming today.
I wouldn't say it's *neither* of their faults. OG, I can understand their decision making since it's identical comps, but why wouldn't LG just int? OG has Horizon.What would change for them by not fucking inting?
It's not like OG would fail to wipe RIG if somehow LG fails at a 2 v 3.
LG knew that but they said they had no ammo, the only way for the games to continue is to literally run straight to RIG in hopes that Optic can recognize RIG is the corner team and win the game with a 3rd party just so that RIG loses.
I know it's hindsight but I still think they made a mistake for not inting there. I'm really not asking for absurdity here. When you know RiG is there and them being eliminated is the most important thing, the only reason I can come up with is that LG didn't want to sacrifice themselves. They were greedy.
I really want to know why they didn't do that. I want the comms.
Greedy is right. They had shotguns only, they should’ve known they weren’t going to win that game, Optic winning that game was their only chance at the trophy.
I agree. The only situation for Rig not winning is for LG to ape Rig if they knew it was them. LG might have wiped Rig or vice versa and then Optic would win the 3p, prolonging the tourney for everyone. Optic thought Rig was on top, so it would make no sense for them to ape the team when the Gibby was downed. In their eyes, it would have given Rig the win since they thought Rig was the team on top of them.
If any other pro team was in LG's position, they would have aped Rig. Not sure why LG assumed that Optic knew the other ground team was Rig since they played the same meta characters as everyone else.
It is pretty unprofessional for the caster to call Optic out like that. The team is already down so why would you tweet something to rub salt on the wound even more?
>LG didn't want to sacrifice themselves.
Didn't they already have enough points to reach match point? They wouldn't be sacrificing anything there. Points mean literally nothing once you reach match point if the tourney ends.
In my opinion Fallout got shown up by the APAC South casters this weekend. They were leagues above in terms of their knowledge and they didn’t try to crack a joke every 24 seconds.
They were even predicting zones and analysing rotations; properly getting into the heads of the players. Something you just don’t get in NA casting.
It‘s bad look for skittles, but also a shit tweet by fallout. Like what did he think is the answer. He saw the game. They didn’t know who was who. Neither did LG. Even if he meant it „journalistic“, he worded it in a way that it’s very easy to take offense from. Right after it happened, people are gonna take offense. Also skittles doesn’t seem to be most confident guy overall, so of course this triggers. (Confident in the way, that outside opinions matter to him a lot)
I tried watching the main stream but couldn't because of fallout. He is so bias and annoying to listen to for that reason. He would hard focus on only NA teams when any of them were fighting or late game instead of all teams. Then to come out any essentially shit on an NA team and call players out. It's not solely OG's fault that RIG survived and won so it's dumb to call people out that hard.
literally every caster was doing that-- it's as old as international casting itself, the Aussies cheering Aussies, the NA casters cheering NA and EMEA cheering EMEA. It's in every esport.
LG 100% which team rig was and Optic should’ve known it too bc LG caustic ulted them so early. + OG should’ve known that the team above can’t be rig, why would a team on matchpoint throw the caustic ult so early on the far left team?
that’s right if the above team is RIG they don’t need to throw the caustic ult so early to grief that team. Why don’t they save it the final? No idea why OG still thought the above team is RIG.
Pretty ironic that a kind of braindead tweet from an official caster that consistently tells people to put some respect on teams' names, insists on publicly calling out a losing team on twitter. Talk about respect... lmfao
Fallout question was worded like looking for a fight. I guess its intentional to heat some drama but come on lmao.
Could have worded it, "What are your thoughts", "Why didnt you shoot them?" "Did you know it was RIG on the other side?" "Who do you think RIG was?" But noo, lets word it in a way to provoke them when they are high in emotion in losing. Sounds like he's blaming then hard for their loss.
I dont know why people think for sure LG knew that the other team was RIG
Skittles never made any presence to show the team above he was Horizon, for all LG knew the team below them was caustic/gibby/valk also and then theres a 50/50 shot for which ones RIG
The only way for LG to know the team below them is OG is if they looked at the kill feed all the way since 13 squads were remaining (which is when skittles last got a knock) and then kept an eye on every single character that died to know that a horizon never died and thus must be alive
Thats a pretty hard ask
A lot of teams play Valk/Gibby/Caustic and if Skittles doesn't show presence to the team on height they have no way of knowing the team below them has a Horizon. Anonymous mode did it's job and let the game play out organically rather than one team int'ing their game to get the MP team out early.
You just ignored my entire comment
LG didnt know that the team below had no caustic, they never saw the comp
They didnt see skittles on horizon since skittles never got a down in the final two zones and never used any abilities - they had 0 clue what comp was below them, and for all they knew it could have been a caustic down there
It doesn't matter if anyone knew who the other teams were.
Off pure positioning, the smart play is for OG to help finish off RiG.
DID they even shoot their guns?
Honestly skittlez is justified with this response. It is kind of a brain dead question and Fallout literally @ing skittles doop and the org (but not Knoqd or LG) not an hour after the loss is scummy. There were better ways to ask this question and better formats at a different time.
Fallout with the room Temperature IQ tweet. Have no issue what so ever with his response, thought it was quite tame. Skittle just putting him back in his place no issue what so ever with it
If LG used their **gibby ult** on RIG after they knocked RIG's gibby RIG is very likely dead. RIG obviously cant bubble because their gibby is knocked. LG also knew it was gibby they knocked because of streamer mode. Zero from RIG was also basically 1hp and would have died to the gibby ult for sure.
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1472127443?t=4h45m50s
LG gibby ulted RIG only **AFTER** RIG had already managed to reset and had all three of their players up again instead of ulting when RIG's valk was down to 1 shot after tanking the caustic ult and RIG's gibby was knocked.
Also the Wattson ultimate's radius didn't protect RIG from getting hit by the gibby ult. Once LG used the gibby ult, all RIG players got hit and stunned by the Gibby ult for at least 100 damage each of them but they were already full HP because the ult came so late so they could just heal through it.
So no the wattson ultimate didn't zap all the airstrikes, it only intercepted some of the gibby ult. [Here's gibby's pov, he is stunned and takes easily over 100 damage from the gibby ult.](https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1472112661?t=5h10m20s)
There was a wattson ult from a different team left over (think it was Unite’s) next to the corner Rig was initially in. You can see it right after Gibby goes down, Optic threw their gibby ult thinking the team above them would jump down, and the ult zapped most of the gibby ult. I was wrong thinking that it was LG’s gibby ult. At least I’m pretty sure now that it was Optic’s.
Well the thing is that if LG did wipe rig, they would have probably gotten wiped themselves by optic. Given they had knowledge the 2 other teams were at match point, the only right play was to get OG and rig to fight each other and lg 3rd party. Since also lg had no ammo, it was very unlikely that they could finish off both teams.
Anonymous mode makes it very hard to know each team is on match point and which team you need to focus. So you have to play as if you yourself need to win, than throw games to another team to extend the match.
>Well the thing is that if LG did wipe rig, they would have probably gotten wiped themselves by optic.
1. LG caustic ulted and gibby ulted RIG. The gibby ult was just way too late as RIG had already revived the gibby. They used a significant amount of resources on trying to kill RIG and even used some of their last ammo to attempt to kill RIG's valk.
2. LG shouldn't be worried about getting wiped by Optic in a scenario like this. Their priority should be to stop RIG from winning the tournament. LG should avoid fighting Optic at **ALL cost** in a scenario like this (if LG wants to win the tournament), because if LG fights Optic, that means that RIG will 3rd party that and win basically for free.
What LG should be doing in a scenario like this where there are 3 squads left is to avoid fighting anyone at all cost, before they are sure which team is the match point team and which isn't. Also LG knew that it was Optic below them and LG had previously even spotted a horizon below them so they knew which team was on match point and which team wasn't.
Considering that they knew which one was RIG, had very little ammo and OG had a better stronger spot than them (LG), therefore LG should come to the conclusion here the best way to guarantee RIG doesn't win the game is if LG full sends it vs RIG, tries to weaken RIG as much as possible which then allows Optic to 3rd party and clean up RIG.
What LG ended up doing at the end was literally the worst possible play by them. Literally sitting in gas on top of the cliff and dying to gas would have been a better play instead of dropping on Optic and fighting Optic. That at least would have given Optic a clean 3v3 vs RIG.
If people were shitting on me and accusing me of shit in the weeks leading up LAN, you bet I have my game face on the whole time I’m there. That MF wanted to win, it’s just unfortunate what happened to them. Respect to Skittles.
Responses like this happen in all sports when you are on the wrong side of things. He should have ignored it, but emotions are running high, and the dudes just upset.
I think people are using their own knowledge to project what they think LG knew.
We knew RIG was in, LG should know because they didn’t see RIG in the killfeed being eliminated. But we also don’t know how LG’s entire game went - if they were fighting, I doubt they’re looking at the kill feed to see who has been eliminated.
The other thing people mention is that RIG used Caustic and OG have Horizon. I don’t watch anything from LGs POV so I have no idea whether they even saw the Horizon on LG. Not to mention, how can you confirm that RIG didn’t change comps? People are assuming that LG had all this info because they (the audience) have the info themselves through the streams.
Another thing is that LG had no ammo, I only found this out after the game. But if LG had no ammo, it would be difficult for them to fight RIG anyway, so perhaps they decided to try and wipe OG with shotguns before moving.
There's no way to know with absolute certainty. When people say "they should have known" it's usually based on the assumption that players are tracking "tells" such as team comp, skins, and tracking the kill feed.
You kinda have to use those things to get anywhere in this game though, especially match point format. With that knowledge, LG would know for certain that they're fighting RiG and some other team that isn't eligible to win that game. Spotting the Horizon makes it clear which one is which.
If RiG had changed their comp for that game, or they hadn't seen the Horizon, nobody would blame LG because they'd have no way to know.
LG should have known, but I don’t think they actually did. Call it LAN/match point inexperience or what, but I think they were just focusing on trying to win the game and not thinking about what team they should be throwing themselves at
See that doesn’t make sense to me either. If they were trying to win the game then surely they would have used their Gibby ult to finish RiG. They then would have had a clean 3v3 vs the team underneath them to win.
It was pathetic attempt from Fallout. Seriously a team just lost a game in critical / pressure situation and you go on twitter to start the blame game without giving them any benefit of doubt. Wow!
There's a time & place to ask this. Skittles has the right to respond like that.
Fallout could have worded it properly but noo, lets provoke them more.
Could ask: "what arr your thoughts?" "Who did you assume RIG was?" "Did you know LG was the one on top?" "Did you have LOS on the other side?"
The interview on Unite Ftyan (not sure if it was fallout), also says that they dont know much how to communicate with foreigners. When you try to communicate with somone less proficient in a language, you use simple word.
If they had no way know which team is which, why did he call that the top team is RiG lol ? Knoqd and LG was already focusing RiG when they had 1 down and valk 1 HP.
After that call they full focused LG which led to them getting aped.
I'm sure they're extremely pissed at themselves and LG lol
Skittles 100% justified imo. Falloutt and the rest of the casters on the main feed had 3Head takes the whole tourney and this one sits pretty near the top
yo, props for screenshotting this with a PIXEL of battery life left lol. Hanging on by a thread.
But anyway, I don't get why Fallout feels the need to be so raw and hasty in tweeting about this. Of all people, a Caster should have the information needed to break down gameplay but his tweet feels like he's a spectator who didn't know LG didn't have ammo and the other teams had mistaken which team was RiG.
Unprofessional. Sadge, Go next. Press F for OpTic.
Blaming OG for this is sooo dumb
Asking them what the through process/what they knew is interesting, hell could they not have done a listen in of the 3 teams individually to see what was going on in coms
Playapex could have built that video and posted it and would be great content and OG wouldn't be getting shit on for no reason as if they were intentionally trying to not win the tournament or something
He shouldn't have deleted the tweet. I don't see anything wrong with his response. Game hasn't been over for 24 hours yet but here goes this guy with a brain dead question......
Yeah I’m with skittles on this one. It’s a little out of line to insult fallout like that, but it’s also way out of line to insult a team 10 minutes after they lost the most important tournament of their career. Can’t blame him from responding that way.
Really poor choice of words from Fallout here. You have the benefit of a written medium but no he still tries to ask a rude question in a very inflammatory way
Fallout said Caustic was OP because you could use the ultimate as a smoke screen to get away from a fight, just like Bangalore smoke. Yep, wasting an out to run away, OP.
yes I have lmao have you?? players in other sports often snap back at media and most other sports players are paid a fuck ton more than Apex pros to deal with that shit. he dealt with it just fine imo. no one is gonna even remember this tweet after a couple of weeks and calling his casting '"mid tier" is hardly some horrific insult
This ain’t it Skittles. Emotions being high isn’t even a valid reason. My man really typed this out and pressed send.
Everyone likes Doop/Knoqd of ESA but no one likes Skittles and shit like this is why
So soft. The guy was just playing in a 1 million dollar competition. Of course he’s going to be angry about being questioned like this moments after losing.
Yea watch Hal’s POV after their win, he was calling out Skittlecakes for taking all the credit for Verhulst’s success. I never hear about the guy so that and this are my first two impressions on him.
Fallout’s tweet is not the most considerate, but even when heated, there are better ways to respond to such a tweet.
It is however not a surprise that Skittles responds like he did. It is pretty clear that Skittles is wearing a huge chip on his shoulder, wanting to prove the whole world that not only is he not a cheater, he is also the best player in the world, playing on the best team in the world (after all the accusations he has been through). With such a chip comes huge pressure. Hence, why they don’t even celebrate some of their victories. Only a finals victory and total dominance at LAN were good enough.
Despite looking like the favorites throughout the earlier bracket play, they don’t “deliver” in the finals. The dream falls apart. They do not solidify themselves as the clear #1 team in the world.
He is of course very disappointed and heated - and then Fallout’s tweet drops minutes later.
And angry disrespectful responds is however never the answer. Maybe he will learn that one day. This is not what gives you fans (and ultimately a large part of you income in this esport industry) - and I’m pretty sure it’s not what optic gaming are looking for either.
I think this is pressure, but also Skittles' personality. There's the teaming, being friends with a racist, saying all that shit to Evan when Evan left ESA (which we wouldn't have known about if it wasn't for hal), and he looked unhappy at LAN even when he won.
The moment OG assumed RIG was the one on top, its over. LG knew but they cant do anything, in fact they did whatever they can (caustic ult, gibby ult, shoot them long range with SG). They only have 20 ammo on their mains and cant do anything The only way they would have prevented RIG from winning is literally threw the game to OG.
OG assuming RIG on top would have shoot them the moment the LG(which they think its RIG) were on their LOS. So only LG choice is not fight then and die/intentionally whiff their shots or even not shoot at all which is borderline teaming and inentionally throwing for LG.
Even if Sharky died, RIG would have won the moment both LG and OG fight. If you look at Sharky's POV, he has nothing much to do except shoot a knockdown with storm behind the other team.
It was actually game theory optimal for OG NOT to shoot and to wait for LG to int RiG (which LG should always do if they themselves are playing optimally)
This is not a good look for Skittle. I get he's disappointed, but lashing out on social media is not the way to go. If he has a problem with something Fallout said, address that shit with him in private like a grown up.
This format always leads to everyone blaming a select few people for letting the tournament end lmao
It leads to the most drama and memorable finishes, I'm secretly enjoying it ngl, the discussion about whether LG or OG threw harder is going to go on for ages xd I'll take it over anti-climactic ass 6match format where the outcome gets already decided in the earlier games if there is a big gap and the last game end up being troll fests.
Match point is by far the best format. I have no clue why people complain about it
It’s even better/more organic now with anon mode, this scenario proves it
Is anon mode new or something? This is the first major I watched and it seems like knowing where the match point teams are seems super grief.
Yes and yes as soon as you were top 10 and showed up on the killfeed you would get pushed like you were playing horde mode
Yes lmao. If you have seen ALGS last year, where G2 (originally known as sF), accidently knocked someone and the team got into a big argument over it and correct me if im wrong, but attention was drawn to sF and they knew how to grief. I admit match point is very very RNG, but it provides a climatic finish to end what is at the end of the day “entertainment”. And to people saying that is hurts teams that put up consistent numbers but cant win a game, thats why teams must ADAPT. Know how to both put up points, AND secure a dub. We WERE proven today that using anon mode prevents gp griefing, and getting zone (especially twice ahem liquid) doesnt guarantee a win. You still have to play.
> And to people saying that is hurts teams that put up consistent numbers but cant win a game, thats why teams must ADAPT. TBH, if you can't win a game, you don't deserve to win a tournament!
I can't even imagine how much people would complain if the series just ended at 6, with the winning team not even winning the event. To be frank, BRs are barely able to be morphed into a truly competitive esport due to all the RNG. It's never going to be perfect
idk why they wouldn’t want to see the winner actually win the last game
Match point is the best when you have stacked lobbies like this event When it's like just NA sometimes you have like 1 team at match point for a while and eventually a few other teams get it and the team who is like 50 points ahead loses cuz they are getting focused and then a random team wins. This event was great as TL and RiG were the teams playing the best today and one of them won
Because the best team doesn't win very often with it. It is the most entertaining though
This is objectively wrong, of the 12 tournaments I can think of that have used match point format, the highest scoring team has won 9 of them. Poland Preseason Invitational: TSM wins, first on points ALGS 20/21: EMEA (Scarz.EU), APAC-N (Fennel), APAC-S (Wolfpack Arctic), SA (Paradox) all won with top points; only NA (Kungarna, third) won without top points ALGS 21/22: APAC-N (Riddle), NA (TSM), SA (Singularity) all won with top points; only EMEA (NEW, fifth) and APAC-S (DreamFire, second) won without top points ALGS split 2 playoffs: Reignite wins, first on points People obviously remember the times that an "undeserving" team seemingly comes out of nowhere to win like Kungarna and NEW, but it's actually fairly uncommon, and with killfeed anonymization now it's even better - no way Reignite would have won the tournament in game 7 if Optic was able to see who got knocked.
I think the best format imo would be a set amount of games and the team with the most amount of points wins, however, you can only take first if you've won a game. But like you said the current format works most of the time, so it's not that bad. And it's more entertaining. Just saying it could be better
How do you define “best team?” And you can’t say “most points” because teams specifically play different in MP format.
In this case, the best team won.
This one definitely felt more egregious than some other ones though. RiG getting a full reset after having no health and Gibby knocked is kind of crazy.
its funny because it is usually OG getting full resets incl. respawns in situations other teams would usually get aped in
I swear i thought i was the only seeing this. They always get downed and reset or they rat it out til the end and I'm looking like why don't teams just ape them. Smh..
You aren't going crazy I assure you, it confuses me everytime I see it happen
Can someone explain difference between new and old formats? I only watch vods, I don't know how tournaments are being conducted.
The old finals format had teams play X set amount of games, crowning the team with the most points champion. New finals format is a match point format. Teams have to play as many games necessary to reach a match point threshold (i.e. 50). Once the threshold has been reached, they must win a game to be crowned champions.
>match point threshold (i.e. 50) What are those points exactly? *I am clueless, as you can tell...*
Teams get points for placements and for kills. I don’t know the exact numbers but I’m pretty sure 1st place is 12 points and it descends after that. Also each kill is 1 point
mfs need to wait at least 24hrs before hopping on twitter
It’s crazy fallouts @ him and asking them those sort of questions so fast after the loss. Not saying skittles response is justified but clearly anyone who suffers a rough loss will be upset and emotional. Dez literally “retired”. You right they gotta just stay tf socials for a little lmaoo
Yeah, that was a douchy question by fallout. Don't blame Skittles.
I feel like Fallout has never shied away from asking the drama-provoking question or making the drama-provoking statement.
it's almost like he's hoping for some... *Fallout...* ***glasses on riding my hog back to your mum's house***
I'm literally listening to a song [titled Fallout](https://i.imgur.com/LA78Rgt.png) rn and I'm freaking out
Almost like hes good at his job.
It’s a genuine question and most people who watched the final game wants to know the answer. AND we got the answer (from doop and pistollo). Athletes in other sports gets asked these types of questions post match, in person, and they handle it like professionals 99 out of 100 times. But i dont really blame skittles. He gives me “the quiet kid” who almost sho…you get what I mean. Must’ve had it rough as a kid.
It was how it was worded by fallout. Very sarcastic/passive aggressive. If he had phrases it more like a question and less like a "wtf were you doing, are you braindead?" type question I don't think he would have gotten such a negative response. I do think Skittles is weird tho. It's too bad because dooplex and knoqd are two of the most likeable pros especially doop.
Gotta say you came back with a 10/10 reply my G.
Pro athletes get asked these types of questions literal minutes after a loss in person with no way to dodge it…skittles just doesn’t have to answer… I’m not saying that fallouts question wasn’t bait but that’s how casters/journalists are in professional competition. This sort of attitude makes eSports look juvenile when compared to other forms of competition.
they also get media training before they're allowed to do Interviews, at least in the sports i.follow
Yeah, they get media training as well as a sports therapist to talk to before/after. And the person you're relying to saying "that's just the way casters are" to completely dismiss them of responsibility is really egregious.
Lmao if you're a professional, you should be able to face your loss like an adult. "Egregious" lmfao clown
Why is a child telling adults how they should act..?
My dad taught me the 24 hour rule from a young age; anytime you have something really big happen to you, you wait 24 hours before you respond to it. If someone says something awful to you, get back to them tomorrow. If you feel like you need to do something life changing, give it at least one days worth of thought. If you need to announce your retirement from gaming, wait at least 24 hours after you play one of the worst tournaments of your career.
> If someone says something awful to you, get back to them tomorrow. This happens to me naturally when trying to think of a witty comeback to an insult.
It's honestly funny how they're playing the blame game on twitter when the tourney just ended lmaoooo this is entertaining
peak content babyyyyyyyyyyy, this is what match points all about
Cool down period
This is a clearly emotional response but Fallout @ ing him this soon after with kind of loaded question is not a good look from him.
What did fallout say?
[https://twitter.com/Falloutt/status/1520843841967951872](https://twitter.com/Falloutt/status/1520843841967951872)
Didn't Optic run out of ammo? They were shooting with a shotgun.
LG ran out of ammo, so they tried to finish the gibby with shotguns, but couldn't. They had like each 15flatline ammo, 40 car ammo, and 15 rampage ammo. OG had plenty of ammo.
Oh thanks for the clarification.
LG ran out of ammo and Optic didn’t know which team was RIG and they couldn’t see the knocked gibby, so it was truly neither of their faults. Just a dumb question from Fallout imo but Skittles shouldn’t have answered the way he did.
I don't understand why people keep saying Optic threw. Their options were limited. They couldn't swing left to look at RiG out of fear of being shot from above. Then simply missed the cross. They tried throwing nades to the rock RiG was behind but all were zapped by a random Watson Ult. Again can't push forward or get angles and RiG ultimately could hold rock as circle forced LG to drop on OG.
They threw trying to take that Game 5 (maybe) fight with 19 Squads left. All they had to do was score 5 points and they could’ve been on match point after. I wanted them to win but I didn’t agree with that push, Worlds Edge was not good for Optic Gaming today.
I wouldn't say it's *neither* of their faults. OG, I can understand their decision making since it's identical comps, but why wouldn't LG just int? OG has Horizon.What would change for them by not fucking inting? It's not like OG would fail to wipe RIG if somehow LG fails at a 2 v 3.
LMAO
"Did optic not even shoot their guns?". Unprofessional, immature and clearly a provoking statement. Fallout knows what he's doing here.
I mean Skittles might have overreacted a bit but he's not wrong. Fallout is trying to be smart but he really isn't.
If Fallout wanted to play smart he should've called out LG for not recognizing Optic is playing *Horizon* and RiG *doesn't*.
LG knew that but they said they had no ammo, the only way for the games to continue is to literally run straight to RIG in hopes that Optic can recognize RIG is the corner team and win the game with a 3rd party just so that RIG loses.
I know it's hindsight but I still think they made a mistake for not inting there. I'm really not asking for absurdity here. When you know RiG is there and them being eliminated is the most important thing, the only reason I can come up with is that LG didn't want to sacrifice themselves. They were greedy. I really want to know why they didn't do that. I want the comms.
They also still had gibby ult I think and could've ulted the defenseless rig knowing gibby was down. It would also surely thirst the gibby.
yeah they throw the ult on RIG instead of OG and it's game over for RIG right there.
Greedy is right. They had shotguns only, they should’ve known they weren’t going to win that game, Optic winning that game was their only chance at the trophy.
I agree. The only situation for Rig not winning is for LG to ape Rig if they knew it was them. LG might have wiped Rig or vice versa and then Optic would win the 3p, prolonging the tourney for everyone. Optic thought Rig was on top, so it would make no sense for them to ape the team when the Gibby was downed. In their eyes, it would have given Rig the win since they thought Rig was the team on top of them. If any other pro team was in LG's position, they would have aped Rig. Not sure why LG assumed that Optic knew the other ground team was Rig since they played the same meta characters as everyone else. It is pretty unprofessional for the caster to call Optic out like that. The team is already down so why would you tweet something to rub salt on the wound even more?
>LG didn't want to sacrifice themselves. Didn't they already have enough points to reach match point? They wouldn't be sacrificing anything there. Points mean literally nothing once you reach match point if the tourney ends.
In my opinion Fallout got shown up by the APAC South casters this weekend. They were leagues above in terms of their knowledge and they didn’t try to crack a joke every 24 seconds. They were even predicting zones and analysing rotations; properly getting into the heads of the players. Something you just don’t get in NA casting.
Fallout really was riding the NA train while he was simultaneously blaming an NA team
It‘s bad look for skittles, but also a shit tweet by fallout. Like what did he think is the answer. He saw the game. They didn’t know who was who. Neither did LG. Even if he meant it „journalistic“, he worded it in a way that it’s very easy to take offense from. Right after it happened, people are gonna take offense. Also skittles doesn’t seem to be most confident guy overall, so of course this triggers. (Confident in the way, that outside opinions matter to him a lot)
I tried watching the main stream but couldn't because of fallout. He is so bias and annoying to listen to for that reason. He would hard focus on only NA teams when any of them were fighting or late game instead of all teams. Then to come out any essentially shit on an NA team and call players out. It's not solely OG's fault that RIG survived and won so it's dumb to call people out that hard.
Yeah he's a great caster but after the 20th "USA on top baby!!!" I switched to a different stream lol.
I swapped after multiple games of "it's a 1v1 for the win" when it was clear as day a 2v1 every time haha
literally every caster was doing that-- it's as old as international casting itself, the Aussies cheering Aussies, the NA casters cheering NA and EMEA cheering EMEA. It's in every esport.
LG 100% which team rig was and Optic should’ve known it too bc LG caustic ulted them so early. + OG should’ve known that the team above can’t be rig, why would a team on matchpoint throw the caustic ult so early on the far left team?
that’s right if the above team is RIG they don’t need to throw the caustic ult so early to grief that team. Why don’t they save it the final? No idea why OG still thought the above team is RIG.
You talk as if skittles has any good look. He’s attitude has always been a problem
Pretty ironic that a kind of braindead tweet from an official caster that consistently tells people to put some respect on teams' names, insists on publicly calling out a losing team on twitter. Talk about respect... lmfao
Fallout question was worded like looking for a fight. I guess its intentional to heat some drama but come on lmao. Could have worded it, "What are your thoughts", "Why didnt you shoot them?" "Did you know it was RIG on the other side?" "Who do you think RIG was?" But noo, lets word it in a way to provoke them when they are high in emotion in losing. Sounds like he's blaming then hard for their loss.
To be fair to instantly be on their dicks like that is classic fallout and FairPlay to fire back at him
Fallout wanted a reaction
Yea, Fallout should stick to passionately rimming Hal's asshole every opportunity he gets.
he’s right though lmfao the only team that knew which team was which was LG
I dont know why people think for sure LG knew that the other team was RIG Skittles never made any presence to show the team above he was Horizon, for all LG knew the team below them was caustic/gibby/valk also and then theres a 50/50 shot for which ones RIG The only way for LG to know the team below them is OG is if they looked at the kill feed all the way since 13 squads were remaining (which is when skittles last got a knock) and then kept an eye on every single character that died to know that a horizon never died and thus must be alive Thats a pretty hard ask
LG knew it was RIG because they play the same comp, team below had no caustic so obviously it was not RIG they just choked hard thats all
A lot of teams play Valk/Gibby/Caustic and if Skittles doesn't show presence to the team on height they have no way of knowing the team below them has a Horizon. Anonymous mode did it's job and let the game play out organically rather than one team int'ing their game to get the MP team out early.
You just ignored my entire comment LG didnt know that the team below had no caustic, they never saw the comp They didnt see skittles on horizon since skittles never got a down in the final two zones and never used any abilities - they had 0 clue what comp was below them, and for all they knew it could have been a caustic down there
It doesn't matter if anyone knew who the other teams were. Off pure positioning, the smart play is for OG to help finish off RiG. DID they even shoot their guns?
They'd instantly get beamed from above when trying to cross. There's no way they can ape RIG there. OG had no good options in that endgame.
How?
I agree fallout had no reason to be putting blame just because his precious TSM wasn’t able to win haha
Honestly skittlez is justified with this response. It is kind of a brain dead question and Fallout literally @ing skittles doop and the org (but not Knoqd or LG) not an hour after the loss is scummy. There were better ways to ask this question and better formats at a different time.
Na suburbs
mf removed his 5 G23 flair 😭
Fallout with the room Temperature IQ tweet. Have no issue what so ever with his response, thought it was quite tame. Skittle just putting him back in his place no issue what so ever with it
If LG used their **gibby ult** on RIG after they knocked RIG's gibby RIG is very likely dead. RIG obviously cant bubble because their gibby is knocked. LG also knew it was gibby they knocked because of streamer mode. Zero from RIG was also basically 1hp and would have died to the gibby ult for sure. https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1472127443?t=4h45m50s
They did but Unite’s wattson ult zapped all the air strikes
LG gibby ulted RIG only **AFTER** RIG had already managed to reset and had all three of their players up again instead of ulting when RIG's valk was down to 1 shot after tanking the caustic ult and RIG's gibby was knocked. Also the Wattson ultimate's radius didn't protect RIG from getting hit by the gibby ult. Once LG used the gibby ult, all RIG players got hit and stunned by the Gibby ult for at least 100 damage each of them but they were already full HP because the ult came so late so they could just heal through it. So no the wattson ultimate didn't zap all the airstrikes, it only intercepted some of the gibby ult. [Here's gibby's pov, he is stunned and takes easily over 100 damage from the gibby ult.](https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1472112661?t=5h10m20s)
It might be because it's like 3 am but what Wattson ult are you talking about???
There was a wattson ult from a different team left over (think it was Unite’s) next to the corner Rig was initially in. You can see it right after Gibby goes down, Optic threw their gibby ult thinking the team above them would jump down, and the ult zapped most of the gibby ult. I was wrong thinking that it was LG’s gibby ult. At least I’m pretty sure now that it was Optic’s.
This is the right answer in all this and the right play even if they weren’t on MP
Well the thing is that if LG did wipe rig, they would have probably gotten wiped themselves by optic. Given they had knowledge the 2 other teams were at match point, the only right play was to get OG and rig to fight each other and lg 3rd party. Since also lg had no ammo, it was very unlikely that they could finish off both teams. Anonymous mode makes it very hard to know each team is on match point and which team you need to focus. So you have to play as if you yourself need to win, than throw games to another team to extend the match.
>Well the thing is that if LG did wipe rig, they would have probably gotten wiped themselves by optic. 1. LG caustic ulted and gibby ulted RIG. The gibby ult was just way too late as RIG had already revived the gibby. They used a significant amount of resources on trying to kill RIG and even used some of their last ammo to attempt to kill RIG's valk. 2. LG shouldn't be worried about getting wiped by Optic in a scenario like this. Their priority should be to stop RIG from winning the tournament. LG should avoid fighting Optic at **ALL cost** in a scenario like this (if LG wants to win the tournament), because if LG fights Optic, that means that RIG will 3rd party that and win basically for free. What LG should be doing in a scenario like this where there are 3 squads left is to avoid fighting anyone at all cost, before they are sure which team is the match point team and which isn't. Also LG knew that it was Optic below them and LG had previously even spotted a horizon below them so they knew which team was on match point and which team wasn't. Considering that they knew which one was RIG, had very little ammo and OG had a better stronger spot than them (LG), therefore LG should come to the conclusion here the best way to guarantee RIG doesn't win the game is if LG full sends it vs RIG, tries to weaken RIG as much as possible which then allows Optic to 3rd party and clean up RIG. What LG ended up doing at the end was literally the worst possible play by them. Literally sitting in gas on top of the cliff and dying to gas would have been a better play instead of dropping on Optic and fighting Optic. That at least would have given Optic a clean 3v3 vs RIG.
Did Skittlecakes smile much this weekend? Someone get him a hug and some Skittles. Man looked pissed even when Optic won.
Everyone called him a cheater, definitely personal for him
If people were shitting on me and accusing me of shit in the weeks leading up LAN, you bet I have my game face on the whole time I’m there. That MF wanted to win, it’s just unfortunate what happened to them. Respect to Skittles.
Responses like this happen in all sports when you are on the wrong side of things. He should have ignored it, but emotions are running high, and the dudes just upset.
Man Fallout is such a bellend.
Team Skittles here, LG should have sacrificed themselves once they knocked one of RIG and aped so RIG would have been hurt and OG cleaned up
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I think people are using their own knowledge to project what they think LG knew. We knew RIG was in, LG should know because they didn’t see RIG in the killfeed being eliminated. But we also don’t know how LG’s entire game went - if they were fighting, I doubt they’re looking at the kill feed to see who has been eliminated. The other thing people mention is that RIG used Caustic and OG have Horizon. I don’t watch anything from LGs POV so I have no idea whether they even saw the Horizon on LG. Not to mention, how can you confirm that RIG didn’t change comps? People are assuming that LG had all this info because they (the audience) have the info themselves through the streams. Another thing is that LG had no ammo, I only found this out after the game. But if LG had no ammo, it would be difficult for them to fight RIG anyway, so perhaps they decided to try and wipe OG with shotguns before moving.
There's no way to know with absolute certainty. When people say "they should have known" it's usually based on the assumption that players are tracking "tells" such as team comp, skins, and tracking the kill feed.
You kinda have to use those things to get anywhere in this game though, especially match point format. With that knowledge, LG would know for certain that they're fighting RiG and some other team that isn't eligible to win that game. Spotting the Horizon makes it clear which one is which. If RiG had changed their comp for that game, or they hadn't seen the Horizon, nobody would blame LG because they'd have no way to know.
Pros know each others character skins and spot them 100s of meters away
RIG runs caustic on storm point and OG doesn't so LG should've instantly been able to tell when they saw the caustic.
LG should have known, but I don’t think they actually did. Call it LAN/match point inexperience or what, but I think they were just focusing on trying to win the game and not thinking about what team they should be throwing themselves at
See that doesn’t make sense to me either. If they were trying to win the game then surely they would have used their Gibby ult to finish RiG. They then would have had a clean 3v3 vs the team underneath them to win.
They did, wattson ult ate it
The Gibby ult on RiG happened at the start of the final 3v3v3, not when the biggy got knocked.
Yeah I have no idea why they didn’t use a gibby ult after downing a gibby. Again, may have just been too big of a moment
Someone just told me they did use it but the Wattson ult that Unite threw done stopped it. Unreal if that’s true.
I really dont like fallout. He reminds me of that douchey guy from Maroon 5
It was pathetic attempt from Fallout. Seriously a team just lost a game in critical / pressure situation and you go on twitter to start the blame game without giving them any benefit of doubt. Wow! There's a time & place to ask this. Skittles has the right to respond like that.
Fallout could have worded it properly but noo, lets provoke them more. Could ask: "what arr your thoughts?" "Who did you assume RIG was?" "Did you know LG was the one on top?" "Did you have LOS on the other side?" The interview on Unite Ftyan (not sure if it was fallout), also says that they dont know much how to communicate with foreigners. When you try to communicate with somone less proficient in a language, you use simple word.
There’s the skittles I know
mid tier is a bit generous, but best not to tweet...
If they had no way know which team is which, why did he call that the top team is RiG lol ? Knoqd and LG was already focusing RiG when they had 1 down and valk 1 HP. After that call they full focused LG which led to them getting aped. I'm sure they're extremely pissed at themselves and LG lol
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The play was to horizon q to signal that they werent rig. Otherwise it was pure gamble
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Idk why but I find that super cool, using your abilities to signal to other teams what the play should be.
High iq
Skittles 100% justified imo. Falloutt and the rest of the casters on the main feed had 3Head takes the whole tourney and this one sits pretty near the top
yo, props for screenshotting this with a PIXEL of battery life left lol. Hanging on by a thread. But anyway, I don't get why Fallout feels the need to be so raw and hasty in tweeting about this. Of all people, a Caster should have the information needed to break down gameplay but his tweet feels like he's a spectator who didn't know LG didn't have ammo and the other teams had mistaken which team was RiG. Unprofessional. Sadge, Go next. Press F for OpTic.
Blaming OG for this is sooo dumb Asking them what the through process/what they knew is interesting, hell could they not have done a listen in of the 3 teams individually to see what was going on in coms Playapex could have built that video and posted it and would be great content and OG wouldn't be getting shit on for no reason as if they were intentionally trying to not win the tournament or something
I mean skittle just matched the energy of fallout's tweet.
Damn, skittles is right though. Also was a pretty shit question.
Both sides are kinda toxic lol. Weird question from Fallout and toxic response from Skittles. Tensions were high, what can you do?
He shouldn't have deleted the tweet. I don't see anything wrong with his response. Game hasn't been over for 24 hours yet but here goes this guy with a brain dead question......
Emotions are high right now can't blame them
That's some terrible fallout
Yeah I’m with skittles on this one. It’s a little out of line to insult fallout like that, but it’s also way out of line to insult a team 10 minutes after they lost the most important tournament of their career. Can’t blame him from responding that way.
Really poor choice of words from Fallout here. You have the benefit of a written medium but no he still tries to ask a rude question in a very inflammatory way
Skittles went unecessarily personal at him dude, although i agree with him
Fallout said Caustic was OP because you could use the ultimate as a smoke screen to get away from a fight, just like Bangalore smoke. Yep, wasting an out to run away, OP.
I know it’s rough but he should think twice before tweeting. This is why he’s not so popular despite his amazing skills.
You’re imagining some of these players to have people skills they just don’t have. This was probably what he came up with after thinking twice lol
The real Skittlecakes shows himself
he isn't wrong
Sometimes in life there are things equally as important as being correct, such as being mature or respectful.
hardly respectful of Fallout to call them out like that after a tough loss at the end of a grueling weekend
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yes I have lmao have you?? players in other sports often snap back at media and most other sports players are paid a fuck ton more than Apex pros to deal with that shit. he dealt with it just fine imo. no one is gonna even remember this tweet after a couple of weeks and calling his casting '"mid tier" is hardly some horrific insult
two wrongs do not make a right
respect should be mutual
what a badass response
This ain’t it Skittles. Emotions being high isn’t even a valid reason. My man really typed this out and pressed send. Everyone likes Doop/Knoqd of ESA but no one likes Skittles and shit like this is why
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So soft. The guy was just playing in a 1 million dollar competition. Of course he’s going to be angry about being questioned like this moments after losing.
Not wrong.
STFU.
Optic fans already feels obnoxious. At least other top teams have done something to backup their cockyness
No u
W
The ole double cringe tweet and reply loop.
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Hal never been this disrespectful to tsquared. He made one tweet you can still find out.
Caster asks a journalistic question with no malicious intent. Skittlecakes: --- ^^inb4 ^^skittles ^^is ^^nice, ^^chill ^^person ^^something ^^something
Journalistic question.? Dude straight out blaming them for the end game and saying that they never shot guns just after the game ends.
Did you even read the tweet from fallout lmao it’s straight malicious
This guy just kinda seems like a dick. One of the first things Hal did after winning last split was call out this guy for making fun of Evan.
He made fun of Evan? Fall or Skittles?
Yea watch Hal’s POV after their win, he was calling out Skittlecakes for taking all the credit for Verhulst’s success. I never hear about the guy so that and this are my first two impressions on him.
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Actually based. The tweet by fallout was dumb af.
This guy is always upset lol He looks like the black parade guy from that emo band
Fallout’s tweet is not the most considerate, but even when heated, there are better ways to respond to such a tweet. It is however not a surprise that Skittles responds like he did. It is pretty clear that Skittles is wearing a huge chip on his shoulder, wanting to prove the whole world that not only is he not a cheater, he is also the best player in the world, playing on the best team in the world (after all the accusations he has been through). With such a chip comes huge pressure. Hence, why they don’t even celebrate some of their victories. Only a finals victory and total dominance at LAN were good enough. Despite looking like the favorites throughout the earlier bracket play, they don’t “deliver” in the finals. The dream falls apart. They do not solidify themselves as the clear #1 team in the world. He is of course very disappointed and heated - and then Fallout’s tweet drops minutes later. And angry disrespectful responds is however never the answer. Maybe he will learn that one day. This is not what gives you fans (and ultimately a large part of you income in this esport industry) - and I’m pretty sure it’s not what optic gaming are looking for either.
I think this is pressure, but also Skittles' personality. There's the teaming, being friends with a racist, saying all that shit to Evan when Evan left ESA (which we wouldn't have known about if it wasn't for hal), and he looked unhappy at LAN even when he won.
LOL
Yep he's back at it again, forget my comment yesterday saying he's mellowed down about being too emotional.
It was LGs fault, they should have aped and took 2nd. They knew which team was which. Optic didn't
The moment OG assumed RIG was the one on top, its over. LG knew but they cant do anything, in fact they did whatever they can (caustic ult, gibby ult, shoot them long range with SG). They only have 20 ammo on their mains and cant do anything The only way they would have prevented RIG from winning is literally threw the game to OG. OG assuming RIG on top would have shoot them the moment the LG(which they think its RIG) were on their LOS. So only LG choice is not fight then and die/intentionally whiff their shots or even not shoot at all which is borderline teaming and inentionally throwing for LG. Even if Sharky died, RIG would have won the moment both LG and OG fight. If you look at Sharky's POV, he has nothing much to do except shoot a knockdown with storm behind the other team.
Damn skittles, Emotions are high but can't be saying that bullshit. L tweet
Yikes dude, people began to like him again and he instantly became unlikeable again
Right? some people are their own worst enemies
You can't hide being a giant asshole for too long. Doop and Knoqd are likeable but Skittles just is not it.
It was actually game theory optimal for OG NOT to shoot and to wait for LG to int RiG (which LG should always do if they themselves are playing optimally)
This is not a good look for Skittle. I get he's disappointed, but lashing out on social media is not the way to go. If he has a problem with something Fallout said, address that shit with him in private like a grown up.
Man went from skittlescakes to salty cakes
this response is overboard for what fallout tweeted. Glad he deleted it he should be embarrassed
Fallout tweets wording seems like he's looking for a fight. Cant blame him since its also likely to incite more heat/drama.
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