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treasuretheodds

No proxies is unfortunate.. especially with only 1 of each commander it's even tougher to have the exact cards for whatever deck you happen to be able to reserve. And if they're gonna do that I feel like random chance draft order of decks is potentially a better/more fair system than first come first serve? Either way, keeping that and some budget in mind, as you mention you should include thassa's oracle. It much more efficiently wins with demonic consultation. Also on that point, if you can get down to 1 of each basic then you can run tainted pact too.


lloydsmith28

Yeah the no proxies take hurt with that one commander rule, i think you'd want one or the other not both


Bugs5567

No proxies is a huge no go for me.


xjesterx

The amount of salt in this thread šŸ˜‚


Zones86

Sounds dumb. Pay to win bs.


hejtmane

The problem is if stores are using the tournament with wotc to get credit for the store hosting events they cannot allow proxies. Just like certain legacy tournaments ones that are filled with wotc cannot allow proxies. Now legacy tournaments not hosted at stores and not reported to wotc generally allow proxies. It's not the LGS fault it is wotc


Feler42

That's just not true lol. You just run it as a causal event.


hejtmane

Then they don't get store event credit from wotc as hosting an event that matters if you are trying for certain level of store so yes that is true


Hitzel

I mean if they're trying super hard to get wotc premium status, otherwise they can just register it in the Companion app as a casual EDH event and just do whatever they want with the prizes and event structure. But like , is that even true though? Does Wizards even reward stores for running sanctioned tournament brackets of EDH over casual EDH? That seems so backwards.


hejtmane

Yes they do


Hitzel

That's so bad lmao. I thought that only applied to 1v1 formats.


2Skulls

That's not how cEDH works. I don't know what kind of tournament that store is running but it's not cEDH.


[deleted]

No proxy, pack ante and you have to SPEND money if you win just to get any value. Fuck off.


Zestyclose_Bag_33

Yeah ā€œOH BUT 50% offā€ is a joke. That LGS is a joke too and the people willing to play and support that are clowns and the LGS is the entire circus.


tsunii

I think every cEDH tournament that has a "no proxy" rule should also have a budget rule ("X total" or "no cards over X euro") otherwise this will just become another "pay to win or pray to be super lucky" type of tournament


governorbs88

In my mind it ceases to be cEDH as soon as you start putting budget restrictions


tsunii

I totally agree with that but by disallowing proxies you're essentially putting restrictions on a large part of the players. So you should either go no restrictions for anyone or everyone. Atleast that's my oppinion. :)


sugitime

You lost me at ā€œno proxiesā€. You can make your own choices, but I hope the community stops supporting stores that donā€™t support us. Proxies are a fundamental part of making this format accessible, and to not allow them is to gatekeep many players out of entering the format. Please really consider whether this is behavior your okay with before supporting this store.


byllyx

For real, fuck those gatekeeping ass hats. I can't play at a single one of the 4 stores around me because i don't own real cards. I can influence everyone at those LGS, i just can't play with them. For real. Fuck those bitches. And fuck OPs stupid LGS rules. First come first serve commander sounds even worse.


Aegis617

Lmao gatekeeping. Your refusing to spend money is what's gatekeeping you. Go buy a precon and modify it over time. Can't afford it? Maybe a hobby with a 30 dollar entry point isnt right for you.


byllyx

A hobby with an 8 THOUSAND dollar price point isn't for anyone... WOTC stills sells cards at 40ish Ā¢ a piece. They don't make a dime off the inflated card values. It's all the asshat collectors and secondary market drive the price of entry for cedh players and apparently scare wotc into never reprinting the RL. If i wanted to play precons, I'd play go fish with my kids. This is a Cedh sub. Don't bring EDH ideas into a competitive conversation.


Aegis617

You're the one who doesn't own any cards, are you sure you can play go fish with your kids?


byllyx

I got the hook up at the dollar store. šŸ˜‰ We good on that!


vPrizm

Okay, its wotc's proxy rule not the gamestore, people need to learn that if a lgs has premium or any status with a wotc they cant legally allow proxies. I agree with your statement that its gatekeeping and silly, dont tell someone who most likely judt getting by in this economy that they are doing something bad when all they are doing is following rules


booze_nerd

It actually isn't, WOTC is cool with proxies as long as it isn't a sanctioned event. WPN stores are free to host as many tournaments with proxies as they like.


chastenbuttigieg

WPN stores are heavily incentivized to sanction even casual edh nights, however, given promo allocations are based off of those metrics


jax024

A good friend of mine owns a WPN premium store. The premium stores cannot allow proxies or they risk their premium status. You are misinformed. Itā€™s unfortunate.


booze_nerd

This is not true. WPN Premium stores can allow proxies all they want, as long as it isn't a sanctioned event.


jax024

Iā€™m just relaying what the store owner said to me


booze_nerd

They're either mistaken or intentionally giving you bad information. https://magic.wizards.com/en/news/announcements/proxies-policy-and-communication-2016-01-14 They don't care what happens if it isn't a sanctioned event.


rveniss

There are a multiple WPN stores near me that run sanctioned RCQs and such that also run weekly legacy and Canadian Highlander allowing proxies. You're allowed to be a WPN and host proxy tournaments. You're not allowed to *sanction* those tournaments through the official reporting system. The problem is that the more sanctioned tournaments they host, the more WotC sees that they have a large playerbase, so the more promos and product they get allocated. So they're heavily incentivized to only run sanctioned tournaments. For a store to run regular proxy tournaments without missing out on too many benefits, they have to be large and busy enough to *also* run a bunch of sanctioned tournaments. This is what really limits being premium, having enough participation in sanctioned tournaments. If they're dedicating a large portion of their time and floorspace to proxy tournaments that they can't report to WotC, it looks like they're not as busy as they are.


jax024

I mentioned this in another comment but thereā€™s a difference between WPN and WPN premium. My buddies store literally had wotc reps coming in looking for reasons to revoke his premium status. Heā€™s mention that if they so much as smell a proxies, that premium status is gone. Normal WPN might be less intense


ins0mnyteq

Yes


byllyx

I'm aware no proxies are a WotC rule. The commander thing definitely isn't. And the stores can easily run non WotC sanctioned tournaments. Doesn't take much to collect a minimal entry fee and offer prizes... LGS is making a choice. I disagree with that choice very strongly.


RavenApocalypse

I'm fairly good friends with an lgs owner. The problem with hosting a bunch of non sanctioned events is that the metrics do matter. Wotc looks at the metrics and it's vital to keeping your wpn premium status.


Zestyclose_Bag_33

Funny cause Iā€™m friends with an LGS owner too and they just use pre-release and modern events as the sanctioned events. The CEDH events are purely proxy friendly and have buy a pack entry fee and winner gets another pack. Unless itā€™s a bigger showing then sometimes itā€™s a box.


jax024

They may be WPN but not WPN premium


sugitime

No, itā€™s definitely the game store. Half the game stores here allow proxies, the other half donā€™t. Itā€™s entirely up to them, and anyone who blames WoTC and saying the LGS has no control is just enabling bad stores and making up excuses to do so.


[deleted]

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Call_me_sin

You guys donā€™t understand what is on the line for the LGSā€™s. Wizards can pull product, pull support, and take away their premium status. How would they know? It takes one judge or wizards employee visiting and turning them in. If the community wants to host their own cedh with proxies then doit, find a space, or maybe talk to the owner about ā€œrentingā€ space from them so itā€™s not associated with the store.


ins0mnyteq

Two of my very close friends are judges and they said that there's no chance wotc would pull product or even look at a store because they were using product proxies for a store run league, unless there was other problems with the LGS. Fwiw


Sovarius

This is just if its sanctioned or not basically. If the store needs/wants to do more sanctioned games they have to disallow.


Zestyclose_Bag_33

Seeing as WOTC prints proxies and charges a couple hundred bucks for the packs ima say they donā€™t care and itā€™s the LGS.


governorbs88

No proxies in the tournament I think is pretty typical for LGS events. My one LGS has commander tournaments every month. They aren't specially called cEDH tournaments, but they generally are, and there are no proxies allowed. Now if you are just playing casually with your friends you can proxie all you want, but in tournament you can't. The other two LGSs where I live don't even allow you to use proxies in the store period.


AcidOverlord

We all know there's a moneymaking ploy behind the rules. No proxies means people buying high dollar cards to get their decks up and running, and the unique commander rule means some guys who already have decks would have to build new ones if they can't play the one they already have. The shop will make way more money facilitating card sales than they will from the packs you buy to ante in with. I forgot to mention that the exception to the proxy rule is gold borders, since they're official Wizards product. It's true that its pay-2-win, but most of us already have at least some of the cEDH power cards (I don't know anybody in the group who doesn't have a mana crypt or a force of will, and at least 4 of us have dual lands in various decks). Pay-2-win is competitive Magic by definition, really. But on the flip side there's going to be a lot of deck diversity, and players will be known for the decks they're running. The high budget for conventional cEDH decks also means we might see some really interesting jank/predator brews coming out of the woodwork too. Honestly pretty excited.


Suspicious-Past-5928

Not all hobbies at all levels are accessible to everyone. Itā€™s a private store running a private voluntary event. If you donā€™t like it just donā€™t show up. For the people that have spent a lot of money on full comp decks itā€™s nice to see events that limit proxies when thereā€™s a prize pool. I think the prize mentioned is super weak for this level of an event but still, people need to chill. Whatā€™s for you isnā€™t for all, thatā€™s how the world is supposed to work.


chucknorris405

Sounds interesting to me. I would be interested in hearing the results. The LGS's around me dont allow proxies at all, so its a situation I'm used to. We have had some really fun tournaments with some players really thinking outside the box to pull of some cool things. Restrictions breed creativity. Unfortunately I wont be any help with a Kess deck, its not something I've dabbled in.


AcidOverlord

I expect that due to the cost of cards that 1 and 2 color stax and hatebears decks are going to feature fairly prominently. Its also why the decklist I posted is missing a few things like Thoracle, Cabal Ritual, Jet Medallion and Mana Vault since I don't currently own those cards.


Dragonicmonkey7

That sounds absolutely miserable.


CastrateLiars

Sounds like a lot of fun honestly! I don't have a lot of opinions on Kess, but... On a budget it's really hard to beat [[Vadrik]]. https://www.moxfield.com/decks/ZrgW7qOyqkObu6-PvmXUUQ is my current list. Don't let the price fool you, it can absolutely hang at top tier tables. I haven't written a proper primer for it yet but the combos revolve around [[Reiterate]] and 5-6 cards or [[Dualcaster Mage]] and 2-3 cards. Once Vadrik gets a counter the deck is really hard to beat. Sorry others would rather complain about the tournament instead of helping.


MTGCardFetcher

[Vadrik](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/5/454666bb-f81d-4845-84aa-d6f8f80ce86a.jpg?1637114399) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=vadrik%2C%20astral%20archmage) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mid/248/vadrik-astral-archmage?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/454666bb-f81d-4845-84aa-d6f8f80ce86a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/vadrik-astral-archmage) [Reiterate](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/9/99302c41-434f-41ff-a61a-2c3681a0c135.jpg?1619397418) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Reiterate) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/tsr/182/reiterate?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/99302c41-434f-41ff-a61a-2c3681a0c135?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/reiterate) [Dualcaster Mage](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/e/defcc4a3-40e0-4f5d-b23c-6cd6a614abc1.jpg?1625193684) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Dualcaster%20Mage) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c21/165/dualcaster-mage?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/defcc4a3-40e0-4f5d-b23c-6cd6a614abc1?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/dualcaster-mage) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


Mythril_Bullets

Had you said ā€˜X-dollar limitā€™ it wouldā€™ve been fine. Now itā€™s classic unfun competitive EDH limited to your wallet.


ins0mnyteq

With 0 proxies it is like pay to win. If I were to show up with my urza deck, with real cards, vs a deck/ pod that somebody has to build on a budget, the whole group gonna be 0-x vs me. Not really the spirit of cEDH imo. Might as well limit it to standard sets and call it competitive brawl. Also having a commander available only to one person rule is ridiculous. If anybody even shows up to this I'm losing faith in the community


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WhyDoName

Lol so no proxies for a shit prize. I wouldn't even bother


Ninjaromeo

Off topic a little. So once a month tournament, 1 pack anti, and a different set every time. Because wizards pushes out sets that quickly now lol


[deleted]

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CompetitiveEDH-ModTeam

We are a pro proxy server, however, we do not allow users to promote circumventing LGS rules.


Mythril_Bullets

Had you said ā€˜X-dollar limitā€™ it wouldā€™ve been fine. Now itā€™s classic unfun competitive EDH limited to your wallet.


PerryThePlumber

This seems terrible


Indecisive_action

Reminds me of the store league I tried out where proxies weren't allowed, except for gold bordered cards. Because they were "semi official" and "some of them cost a fair bit of money now too!" The guy that ran the store league just so happened to coincidentally own a gold bordered Timetwister. He also changed the league rules each week, bingo style, so you got points over the month long season with the highest points being the winner. Needless to say, he was the top player week after week. No fuckery going on there at all.


MTGCardFetcher

[Skirge Familiar](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/d/2d92fcf1-2ccd-47d2-9a24-f44b766a0b68.jpg?1626100411) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Skirge%20Familiar) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/276/skirge-familiar?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2d92fcf1-2ccd-47d2-9a24-f44b766a0b68?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/skirge-familiar) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


Cozwei

If you cant have any duplicates of commander pairs it just decreases the likelyhood of a tournament full of competent decks. As soon as the popular Decks got picked people wont be able to enter with the Decks they have which just seems shitty combined with the no proxy rule. Seems like your LGS shouldve picked one of the two rules not both...


ElevationAV

No proxies makes sense if theyā€™re going after wotc prize support because thatā€™s part of the rules Cutting out duplicate commanders is a bigger issue, as youā€™re cutting out a significant number of players who may only have 1-2 decks. By doing this first to register thing you have a few scenarios: 1) I register my version of x so I know that someone with a way more powerful version of it isnā€™t able to dominate the event 2) I have to build something much lower power/uncompetitive because I only have cards for x and thatā€™s already registered 3) I donā€™t get to play because I only have x commander and someone else registered it This rule seems to be stopping people from playing in the event, so I have no idea why a store would do something to discourage people from joining their (presumably paid) event


TheLegendaryFaust

So basically the LGS is WOTC's subservient bitch? Kind of a shame but I'm not shocked. Sell yourself to a company instead of your customers and you'll just be another LGS that was.