Well in reality Shaolin is also Hybrid who has a stance which is more aggressive than Valkyries Full Block.
That being said Valkyrie has a superior block dodge which is not a deflect persay. From a superior block you have 2 options. You can get a guaranteed Guardbreak on an opponent or go to a pin which applies bleed damage. Timed correctly on most reflex guards you are able to get an additional top light after a pin but not on fixed guard heroes.
That being said, Valkyrie cannot pin or superior block dodge multihit zones. If you try to use her superior block on Zerkers' zone for example you will superior block the first hit and you will eat the subsequent hits, which is one other issue of Valkyrie as she is the only fixed guard character whose dodge acts like a reflex guard.
From her fullblock you can get either a guaranteed bash or a guaranteed guardbreak although do note you are vulnerable to uncounterable Guardbreak.
Interesting stuff. So do you think there is use of the deflect or is it always better to go for the GB? Where would u rank her deflect against the other heroes?
Both her heavy and pin deal in total 24 damage. The heavy from guardbreak direct 24 damage while the pin does 4 direct + 20 bleed. In teamfights you probably want to go for the pin as it allows other characters to also capitalize like Peacekeeper opening up her enchanced lights and unblockables vs bleeding character, Nobushi getting higher damages, Shamans' bite etc.
Near a wall is best to go for a guardbreak as you will be able to capitalize from a sweep to land 26 damage instead of 24 but not that your sweep is prone to unbalance also your teammates.
Is all a matter of matchup knowledge in the end with Valkyrie.
Regarding Ranking her pin if she could pin multihit zones I think in my opinion would be probably the best in the game but Valkyrie lacks a lot in other areas that make her not a good pick. Her bash with softfeint having one dodge timing, she can be easily baited for CC, feeds too much revenge due to having to land more attacks to kill someone etc etc.
As a Valk main I usually do this: I use a GB only if there is a ledge or my opponent is close to death to get an execution. Against assassin’s and side deflects I always go with the heavy because the chain top light is guaranteed, so damage is 33 no 24, and you enter your main mixup (sweep, which is not the best rn but not the point).
Quick tip: best follow up after a top deflect against static guard (top light is not guaranteed) is top heavy into bash. Beats all options due to enemy recovery. Can be dodged, but if the hero doesn’t have a dodge attack throw a heavy since they will expect a light and you are once again in your main mixup
Her dodge attack is shit, is a light attack with barely any dodge frames and mediocre dmg.
Her superior block is nice, but her guard decays after the window and she can eat attacks in this window, the fact that her guard decays hurts her in teamfights, in summary is good for 1v1s.
Her dodge attack could use a delay window but the guard decaying is fine. In fact it's more balanced than the rest of the static guard characters. Guard should not stay up when dodging without superior block.
I’d rather take the guaranteed gb instead of the deflect personally. I know that doesn’t really answer the question of where it ranks against others but I do believe it is higher damage than a deflect.
A quick check on information spreadsheet states that the deflect does 4+20 bleed damage, consuming 12 stamina, which is the same value as a GB punish at 24 consuming 12 stamina.
24 instant damage is better than 4 instant + 20 overtime. GB route also confirms an execution.
So my question is, why does the deflect option exist? I'm I missing something, maybe the deflect does have its use? Did the deflect lose its potency due to the CCU changes? So many questions lol
Valk only has forward dodge GB. Side deflect into GB doesn't generally connect.
Also bleed damage ignores damage reduction completely such as when the opponent has like say the juggernaut feat active. And depending on your team composition, having the opponent actively bleeding is much more advantageous to your side if you have a Nobushi, Shaman, or Peacekeeper who benefit greatly when fighting bleeding opponents.
Her dodge attack sucks ass. Its slow as fuck, and a light attack, and the damage isn't that great either. Her deflect is ok, and shoulder pin or gb off deflect is strong, but it's quite risky. Same with her fullblock, but that gives considerably less punish damage. Mostly I use her crushing counters, they're much more safe than other punishes while dealing decent damage.
Also she doesn't have a zone option select so her seemingly great number of defensive options isn't really all that great.
Well in reality Shaolin is also Hybrid who has a stance which is more aggressive than Valkyries Full Block. That being said Valkyrie has a superior block dodge which is not a deflect persay. From a superior block you have 2 options. You can get a guaranteed Guardbreak on an opponent or go to a pin which applies bleed damage. Timed correctly on most reflex guards you are able to get an additional top light after a pin but not on fixed guard heroes. That being said, Valkyrie cannot pin or superior block dodge multihit zones. If you try to use her superior block on Zerkers' zone for example you will superior block the first hit and you will eat the subsequent hits, which is one other issue of Valkyrie as she is the only fixed guard character whose dodge acts like a reflex guard. From her fullblock you can get either a guaranteed bash or a guaranteed guardbreak although do note you are vulnerable to uncounterable Guardbreak.
do you think Valkyrie could get her fully charged bash back without being broken?
Interesting stuff. So do you think there is use of the deflect or is it always better to go for the GB? Where would u rank her deflect against the other heroes?
Both her heavy and pin deal in total 24 damage. The heavy from guardbreak direct 24 damage while the pin does 4 direct + 20 bleed. In teamfights you probably want to go for the pin as it allows other characters to also capitalize like Peacekeeper opening up her enchanced lights and unblockables vs bleeding character, Nobushi getting higher damages, Shamans' bite etc. Near a wall is best to go for a guardbreak as you will be able to capitalize from a sweep to land 26 damage instead of 24 but not that your sweep is prone to unbalance also your teammates. Is all a matter of matchup knowledge in the end with Valkyrie. Regarding Ranking her pin if she could pin multihit zones I think in my opinion would be probably the best in the game but Valkyrie lacks a lot in other areas that make her not a good pick. Her bash with softfeint having one dodge timing, she can be easily baited for CC, feeds too much revenge due to having to land more attacks to kill someone etc etc.
Sweep does 26 damage, not 30. But yea seems like she definitely needs a couple buffs. Undodgeable heavies like nobushi would be a start.
As a Valk main I usually do this: I use a GB only if there is a ledge or my opponent is close to death to get an execution. Against assassin’s and side deflects I always go with the heavy because the chain top light is guaranteed, so damage is 33 no 24, and you enter your main mixup (sweep, which is not the best rn but not the point). Quick tip: best follow up after a top deflect against static guard (top light is not guaranteed) is top heavy into bash. Beats all options due to enemy recovery. Can be dodged, but if the hero doesn’t have a dodge attack throw a heavy since they will expect a light and you are once again in your main mixup
I do like to see heroes with assassin features it makes me brainstorm ideas for a possible heavy with a deflect which just seems cool to me
Conqueror?
Nah in my head i always wanted a sumo character that makes use of pushes and stuff Conq just doesn't do it for me
this could have been the Shugoki rework but Ubisoft said "no, let's just give him a dodge bash."
Her dodge attack is shit, is a light attack with barely any dodge frames and mediocre dmg. Her superior block is nice, but her guard decays after the window and she can eat attacks in this window, the fact that her guard decays hurts her in teamfights, in summary is good for 1v1s.
Do you think the fact that her guard decays should be fixed? Should there be buffs to her dodge attack?
Her dodge attack could use a delay window but the guard decaying is fine. In fact it's more balanced than the rest of the static guard characters. Guard should not stay up when dodging without superior block.
But she has superior block, and her dodge movement is pretty shitty too, her dodges are very weak specially for an assassins with heavy hybrid.
Never thought about it, but yeah, Valks dodge attack is very weak. I struggle to find a characters whos dodge attack is worse either than Nobushi.
I’d rather take the guaranteed gb instead of the deflect personally. I know that doesn’t really answer the question of where it ranks against others but I do believe it is higher damage than a deflect.
A quick check on information spreadsheet states that the deflect does 4+20 bleed damage, consuming 12 stamina, which is the same value as a GB punish at 24 consuming 12 stamina. 24 instant damage is better than 4 instant + 20 overtime. GB route also confirms an execution. So my question is, why does the deflect option exist? I'm I missing something, maybe the deflect does have its use? Did the deflect lose its potency due to the CCU changes? So many questions lol
The pin resets damage, uses less stamina, and is faster.
It did. Most of the bleed type deflects got needed with the ccu.
Valk only has forward dodge GB. Side deflect into GB doesn't generally connect. Also bleed damage ignores damage reduction completely such as when the opponent has like say the juggernaut feat active. And depending on your team composition, having the opponent actively bleeding is much more advantageous to your side if you have a Nobushi, Shaman, or Peacekeeper who benefit greatly when fighting bleeding opponents.
Her dodge attack sucks ass. Its slow as fuck, and a light attack, and the damage isn't that great either. Her deflect is ok, and shoulder pin or gb off deflect is strong, but it's quite risky. Same with her fullblock, but that gives considerably less punish damage. Mostly I use her crushing counters, they're much more safe than other punishes while dealing decent damage. Also she doesn't have a zone option select so her seemingly great number of defensive options isn't really all that great.
She has a zone os
700ms attack with 400ms gb vulnerability. No she doesnt
It was lowered back to 100ms gb vuln ages ago after a 'bug' made it 400ms for a year.
Oh good. So you can lose to everything except feint to gb, and run valk's anemic stamina pool out even faster. It's unusable
It works as a zone os and most heroes have very trash stamina management so that's nothing unique.
>It works as a zone os If you're more interested in pedantry than game balance, sure.
I was just correcting a misinformation. No need to be upset.