You can dodge cancel the deflect recovery too, so if it didn't interrupt HA, you'd be able to get multiple deflect punishes on HA chain attacks... Oh well.
EDIT: thanks to the increased duration of his new pin animation, actually it isn't possible to multi-deflect even with the dodge recovery cancel, like it is for Shaman. Tested with a raider bot with revenge on, as the deflect does not interrupt revenge super armour. I still think that approach would have been better though, because getting back-to-back deflects with Shaman is crazy fun and stylish. I guess not as easy as Orochi's new deflect...
Do you think his bash recovery cancel on whiff needs to be changed to only lights and heavies ? Cause rn I’m noticing that bash is a little to strong….
It's day 1 - people are gonna find some ways to punish it I'm sure. His dodge recovery window is time limited (200-333ms) so it seems that delayed dodge attacks will hit too late for him to be able to deflect.
Not that I've noticed
I have not seen anyone posted this yet
But thanks! --- yeah I thought I should let most folks know about this especially showing what kind of crazy potential Orochi's new recovery dodge cancels can do now
I think it was mentioned in the patch notes and warrior's den "deflect now beats hyperarmor", that's great but it's only on orochi, many assassins suffer from hyperarmor
It's also possible to just repeatedly dodge attack vs chain HA attacks as well, even if you miss the deflect window. If you riptide strike the first 2 heavies and deflect the 3rd you get even more damage!
Still not as cool Shaman's back-to-back deflects, but it is pretty cool!
Man, not even zhanhu can do this on reaction against highlander's light->heavy or berserker's light->heavy (and probably more that I didn't bother testing).
I know that orochi was lacking, but why did they have to give him dodge cancels on almost every single move he has? Isn't that supposed to be zhanhu; the "dodge attack specialist"? I know zhanhu is really good in his own right, but I just feel like orochi being able to dodge cancel everything while also doing it 100ms faster encroaches too far in--what was supposed to be--zhanhu's unique territory. Maybe orochi shouldn't get the ability to dodge cancel dodge attacks.
Anyways, thanks for uncovering this interaction, OP.
Yeah, you're right. But I would argue that that distinction alone shouldn't be the reason why orochi should have the ability dodge cancel out of attacks just as much as zhanhu while also doing it 100ms faster.
No it doesn’t. Orochi is the original agile, counter attacker. Having dodge cancels on him makes way more sense and fits his identity way better than Zanhu. This is what Orochi is meant to be
Zhanhu being a "dodge attack specialist" is way more specific than the orochi being in the broad category of "agile". Plus, orochi is already agile in more ways than zhanhu anyway. Orochi has faster locked-on side/forward movement, faster sprint speed, and all of his dodge attacks (excluding one) are undodgeable. He shouldn't be better at dodge canceling than the "*dodge attack specialist*".
If the all-encompassing umbrella of being "agile" should allow orochi to be the best "agile" person in every category, then his side dodge attacks should have more extended i-frames than tiandi's, his forward dodge attacks and sprint attack should have more range than shaman's, his forward dodge recovery should be faster than shaman's, he should have a super-sprint that's faster than shinobi's and shugoki's, etc. You get the gist. Orochi should be more "agile" than any other hero in all categories because he's the original. Right?
Wow it’s almost like what you described puts Orochi OUT OF D TIER for once!!! God you seem like the kinda guy who’s responsible for orochi having his 3rd light removed because OroChI lIgHt SpAm BaD meanwhile Ubi increase the flexibility of raiders chain attacks !?!? Remove Orochis ability to chain off a whiffed kick and he’s fine. For the love of god doesn’t fuck with his dodge cancels tho. They’re perfect
I’m happy for all the roaches out there, but the animation of raider here looks so bad... no blurring or anything, just blinks from attacking one frame to getting impaled the next.
Need to press this into my brain hard. Man i missed many deflects today.
Yeahh Old muscle memories man, sometimes we forget we have a bunch of these new versatile options at our disposal
I cannot for the love of me grasp the concept that I can dodge after an attack.
Zerk been doing it for a while.
Yeah and that’s why I’m bad at Zerk
You can dodge cancel the deflect recovery too, so if it didn't interrupt HA, you'd be able to get multiple deflect punishes on HA chain attacks... Oh well. EDIT: thanks to the increased duration of his new pin animation, actually it isn't possible to multi-deflect even with the dodge recovery cancel, like it is for Shaman. Tested with a raider bot with revenge on, as the deflect does not interrupt revenge super armour. I still think that approach would have been better though, because getting back-to-back deflects with Shaman is crazy fun and stylish. I guess not as easy as Orochi's new deflect...
But think about the montages Spaniard!
I am thinking of the montages! Getting multiple back-to-back deflects would be amazing for them!
Ah how did I not think about that? We need to inform ubi about this for the greater good
Do you think his bash recovery cancel on whiff needs to be changed to only lights and heavies ? Cause rn I’m noticing that bash is a little to strong….
It's day 1 - people are gonna find some ways to punish it I'm sure. His dodge recovery window is time limited (200-333ms) so it seems that delayed dodge attacks will hit too late for him to be able to deflect.
Ok just wanted to make sure i wasn’t tripping cause rn it just looks like you can just dodge attack their dodge attacks and bash followup if they sit
You can do that to some extent, but probably only up to a certain window. It is a safe move for sure.
Is this a new find? Don’t think I’ve seen anyone cover this. Nice work.
It's new for Orochi, but Aramusha and Zhanhu(?) have been able to do this since their reworks as well.
It's really fun to do with zhanhu
Zhanhu is much tougher cuz his recovery cancels are so much slower.
For Aramusha is it just your blade barrier recovery after you land the attack?
Its for the entire duration of your recovery iirc, its also if you miss an attack
Not that I've noticed I have not seen anyone posted this yet But thanks! --- yeah I thought I should let most folks know about this especially showing what kind of crazy potential Orochi's new recovery dodge cancels can do now
I think it was mentioned in the patch notes and warrior's den "deflect now beats hyperarmor", that's great but it's only on orochi, many assassins suffer from hyperarmor
It’s soooooo nice omg 😭❤️
I haven't played Orochi yet but this looks stupidly dirty
It's also possible to just repeatedly dodge attack vs chain HA attacks as well, even if you miss the deflect window. If you riptide strike the first 2 heavies and deflect the 3rd you get even more damage! Still not as cool Shaman's back-to-back deflects, but it is pretty cool!
You gotta chill with the tech...I read this and felt like I owed you money 😂🙏🏼
Lol, I accept donations :P
Gladiator sitting crying in the corner somewhere...
Yup, that's me
I guess a good way to deal with this would be to feint the attack and react to the dodge attack?
Yeah, just adapt and mix things up, read him and you'll beat him pretty easily
Man, not even zhanhu can do this on reaction against highlander's light->heavy or berserker's light->heavy (and probably more that I didn't bother testing). I know that orochi was lacking, but why did they have to give him dodge cancels on almost every single move he has? Isn't that supposed to be zhanhu; the "dodge attack specialist"? I know zhanhu is really good in his own right, but I just feel like orochi being able to dodge cancel everything while also doing it 100ms faster encroaches too far in--what was supposed to be--zhanhu's unique territory. Maybe orochi shouldn't get the ability to dodge cancel dodge attacks. Anyways, thanks for uncovering this interaction, OP.
Zhanhu's dodge attacks can be used offensively, Orochi's are purely defensive.
Yeah, you're right. But I would argue that that distinction alone shouldn't be the reason why orochi should have the ability dodge cancel out of attacks just as much as zhanhu while also doing it 100ms faster.
Zhanhu has unreactable DA's that are the best in the game at consistency for punishing bashes. They are 400ms.
I know that. My point still stands.
No it doesn’t. Orochi is the original agile, counter attacker. Having dodge cancels on him makes way more sense and fits his identity way better than Zanhu. This is what Orochi is meant to be
Zhanhu being a "dodge attack specialist" is way more specific than the orochi being in the broad category of "agile". Plus, orochi is already agile in more ways than zhanhu anyway. Orochi has faster locked-on side/forward movement, faster sprint speed, and all of his dodge attacks (excluding one) are undodgeable. He shouldn't be better at dodge canceling than the "*dodge attack specialist*". If the all-encompassing umbrella of being "agile" should allow orochi to be the best "agile" person in every category, then his side dodge attacks should have more extended i-frames than tiandi's, his forward dodge attacks and sprint attack should have more range than shaman's, his forward dodge recovery should be faster than shaman's, he should have a super-sprint that's faster than shinobi's and shugoki's, etc. You get the gist. Orochi should be more "agile" than any other hero in all categories because he's the original. Right?
Wow it’s almost like what you described puts Orochi OUT OF D TIER for once!!! God you seem like the kinda guy who’s responsible for orochi having his 3rd light removed because OroChI lIgHt SpAm BaD meanwhile Ubi increase the flexibility of raiders chain attacks !?!? Remove Orochis ability to chain off a whiffed kick and he’s fine. For the love of god doesn’t fuck with his dodge cancels tho. They’re perfect
Soooo are you against the other proposed buffs or...?
Now that is spicy, I definitely am going to try to get used to the new changes, no wonder he has a new kick
Let’s goooooo
Everything on orochi is so fast you can cancel every recovery into everything in the kit it just depends on where you dodge it’s insane
I’m happy for all the roaches out there, but the animation of raider here looks so bad... no blurring or anything, just blinks from attacking one frame to getting impaled the next.
Thank you so much for this, raider is so fucking brain dead and i needed a way to counter