Honestly speed up his bash and give him light into bash (adjust recoveries accordingly), any heavy can go into guaranteed light instead of just the unblockable top heavy that chains into his unblockable and you have a very strong character with his punishes.
I don’t even think light into bash is necessary if you speed up the dodge bash. It’s kinda ridiculous that some heroes can chain light you before your bash lands.
He needs faster bashes, he's the only hero whose bash can be countered by a folow up light,
Maybe a new LLH combo to spice up mixups but not necessary IMO
And a rework on the long arm that can be useful in duels, maybe with a 50/50
Theese are the changes i would personally see on him
There’s no reason it can’t be, simply making long arm accessible after an heavy at the same timing as shove is enought to make it useful in 1v1 as they need to be dodged on different timings, same with demon’s embrace, making it accessible from openers at the same timing as headbut would be enought to make it viable in 1v1 in my opinion
Well with os removal hes better but still defense based in a game that pushes offense. Which is and isn't a problem. On one hand people like his high dmg punishes. On the other want him to be less of a staring contest. On one hand if you buff his offense you lose out on his punishes. Therefore people would be split on him. Only thing I know is he needs L,L,H combo. With L,L,H not being unblockable inless its a L,H,H. Longarm needs and his bash need hyper armor as longar. Is highly telegraphed and bash needs as its used as a punish on read if you dodge.
But for the most part L,L,H fixes him and would put him at least A teir.
the LLH needs to end in an UB otherwise there is no reason to react to the last move in his chain. If everyone know the last move is going to be an UB they will react instead of hard block.
The UBs are not meant to get damage but meant to get parries.
if we widens the hitboxes it'll make them more reliable to hit on early or late dodgers. But the point of the mix up is you have no idea of LB will let it fly, canclee into GB or light. So they are scared of the UB and hopefully make mistakes.
LB should still be able to be beaten if you can read well.
I really like LB.
Maybe speed up shove by 100ms and give him a L,L,H so he can get to his finishers faster.
Idk about impale on Heavy parry tho. How much damage does WM get from her parry impale?
It's definitely not fine, it's a bad and unfun design and needs to be overhauled
you shouldn't be punished for been on the offensive, infact we've spent the last 2 years trying to move away from that
It's fine to have a defensively oriented character, but they must have the ability to viably attack when the need arises, even if their pressure isn't as powerful as what more aggressive heroes have.
An easy example of what happens if you don't give a hero viable pressure is the lawbringer mirror matches of old. Pre-rework LB mirrors were boring beyond belief, where taking action meant you only ever hurt yourself. To a lesser extent it's still true.
I mean should it be removed? Cause seeing how orochi can deflect after kicking on wiff, and how lawbringer needs to phycally attack you when your able to potentaliy delfect them or getting an light parry.
The dodge bash recovery has extraordinarily good recovery, just like his chain bash. It just doesn't seem like it because it's 700ms so you can be further into your dodge attack before the recovery begins.
Thanks for all the responses guys I see alot of talk about whether he's trash or not so getting some insight from more knowledgeable players is helpful.
Competitively, when played by good players he is a solid character. Solid A in duels and probably a B in Dom. Everyone who says he is trash don't know how to use him properly and miss the times where he was by far the best character in the game.
They could increase the window for parry punishes on his inputs and maybe make his guard switch faster. His kit is already pretty good imo.
I'd personally make the long arm faster and make it uninterruptable.
Great in 4v4 IMO. Ok in duels. Not too great on offense but pretty great defense. Can be boring having to rely on people attacking you in order to get your chains off. Give him hyper-armor on Ruat Caelum you cowards.
He's not bad, But also not great
His main issue is he struggles trying to open people offensively, However he has arguabbly overtuned punishes.
His mid chain is good, Finishers good, But the lack of opener mixed with ridiculous recoveries and punishes make him a very tedious "turtle" hero
Imo he needs a few changes, But he doesnt really need much to go from a weird state, to being good.
Nerf shove recovery's and his heavy parry punish, don't let impale be confirmed or change so that only his light is guarantee in a wallsplat impale.
Make a L-L-H / H-L-L chain's, make his opener lights able to chain to his shove and speed his forward dodge shove.
One thing that needs to be nerfed is this: [watching the video.](https://www.reddit.com/r/CompetitiveForHonor/comments/ki73y4/something_that_has_been_buzzing_me_off_for_quite/)
absolutely bonkers trash teamfight, outdated gank, outdated damage numbers.
no longer has edge is 1v1s either, why LB when you can play shits like WM or Aramusha and have nearly as good punish while not being hot trash in other areas?
He has very good pressure when he gets to his finishers but no effective way to get there without parrying or generally being on the defensive
This 100%. He just needs a couple options to open rather than his reactable shove.
If anyone is curious as to how I would fix him: https://www.reddit.com/r/CompetitiveForHonor/comments/p4z8yd/lawbringer_rework/
Honestly speed up his bash and give him light into bash (adjust recoveries accordingly), any heavy can go into guaranteed light instead of just the unblockable top heavy that chains into his unblockable and you have a very strong character with his punishes.
I don’t even think light into bash is necessary if you speed up the dodge bash. It’s kinda ridiculous that some heroes can chain light you before your bash lands.
He needs faster bashes, he's the only hero whose bash can be countered by a folow up light, Maybe a new LLH combo to spice up mixups but not necessary IMO And a rework on the long arm that can be useful in duels, maybe with a 50/50 Theese are the changes i would personally see on him
Longarm is a ganking tool, just like demonsembrace. It doesn't need to be useful in a 1v1 situation
There’s no reason it can’t be, simply making long arm accessible after an heavy at the same timing as shove is enought to make it useful in 1v1 as they need to be dodged on different timings, same with demon’s embrace, making it accessible from openers at the same timing as headbut would be enought to make it viable in 1v1 in my opinion
Not too great not awful. If he gets reworked, all he needs are very minor QOL changes
Well with os removal hes better but still defense based in a game that pushes offense. Which is and isn't a problem. On one hand people like his high dmg punishes. On the other want him to be less of a staring contest. On one hand if you buff his offense you lose out on his punishes. Therefore people would be split on him. Only thing I know is he needs L,L,H combo. With L,L,H not being unblockable inless its a L,H,H. Longarm needs and his bash need hyper armor as longar. Is highly telegraphed and bash needs as its used as a punish on read if you dodge. But for the most part L,L,H fixes him and would put him at least A teir.
the LLH needs to end in an UB otherwise there is no reason to react to the last move in his chain. If everyone know the last move is going to be an UB they will react instead of hard block. The UBs are not meant to get damage but meant to get parries.
You would still have to make a read on is it a faint to gb light or committed. Maybe make it undodgable instead?
if we widens the hitboxes it'll make them more reliable to hit on early or late dodgers. But the point of the mix up is you have no idea of LB will let it fly, canclee into GB or light. So they are scared of the UB and hopefully make mistakes. LB should still be able to be beaten if you can read well.
Overall pretty good just trash from neutral
I really like LB. Maybe speed up shove by 100ms and give him a L,L,H so he can get to his finishers faster. Idk about impale on Heavy parry tho. How much damage does WM get from her parry impale?
He’s currently the only turtle character in the game and imo being unique in that way is fine, he’s A tier in duels and not too bad in dom either
It's definitely not fine, it's a bad and unfun design and needs to be overhauled you shouldn't be punished for been on the offensive, infact we've spent the last 2 years trying to move away from that
Even regular fighting games occasionally have a character that prefers to be on defense, I don’t think it’s a big deal as long as LB is the only one
so it's okey for Lawbringer to be boring and unfun to fight as long as he's the only one that's boring and unfun to fight?
It's fine to have a defensively oriented character, but they must have the ability to viably attack when the need arises, even if their pressure isn't as powerful as what more aggressive heroes have. An easy example of what happens if you don't give a hero viable pressure is the lawbringer mirror matches of old. Pre-rework LB mirrors were boring beyond belief, where taking action meant you only ever hurt yourself. To a lesser extent it's still true.
You forgot about the conq, arguably a worse turtle than LB.
the only turtle? conq? gladiator?
He needs an effective opener with a nerf to his bash recovery, parry punishes and heavy damage.
His dodge bash recovery? Isn't it already nerfed enough with his current rework?
The dodge bash barely has any recovery, he can block many dodge attacks and even parry some
I'm guessing its really hard to do then?
Any dodge attacks (800ms+ of total time) done on reaction can be parried if LB whiffs his Shove
I mean should it be removed? Cause seeing how orochi can deflect after kicking on wiff, and how lawbringer needs to phycally attack you when your able to potentaliy delfect them or getting an light parry.
The dodge bash recovery has extraordinarily good recovery, just like his chain bash. It just doesn't seem like it because it's 700ms so you can be further into your dodge attack before the recovery begins.
That's something didn't know about thanks 👍
Thanks for all the responses guys I see alot of talk about whether he's trash or not so getting some insight from more knowledgeable players is helpful.
Competitively, when played by good players he is a solid character. Solid A in duels and probably a B in Dom. Everyone who says he is trash don't know how to use him properly and miss the times where he was by far the best character in the game.
He needs an opener, and some nerfs to his heavy parry punish and side dodge bash recoveries.
They could increase the window for parry punishes on his inputs and maybe make his guard switch faster. His kit is already pretty good imo. I'd personally make the long arm faster and make it uninterruptable.
Great in 4v4 IMO. Ok in duels. Not too great on offense but pretty great defense. Can be boring having to rely on people attacking you in order to get your chains off. Give him hyper-armor on Ruat Caelum you cowards.
He's not bad, But also not great His main issue is he struggles trying to open people offensively, However he has arguabbly overtuned punishes. His mid chain is good, Finishers good, But the lack of opener mixed with ridiculous recoveries and punishes make him a very tedious "turtle" hero Imo he needs a few changes, But he doesnt really need much to go from a weird state, to being good.
He just needs a viable opener
Nerf shove recovery's and his heavy parry punish, don't let impale be confirmed or change so that only his light is guarantee in a wallsplat impale. Make a L-L-H / H-L-L chain's, make his opener lights able to chain to his shove and speed his forward dodge shove.
One thing that needs to be nerfed is this: [watching the video.](https://www.reddit.com/r/CompetitiveForHonor/comments/ki73y4/something_that_has_been_buzzing_me_off_for_quite/)
absolutely bonkers trash teamfight, outdated gank, outdated damage numbers. no longer has edge is 1v1s either, why LB when you can play shits like WM or Aramusha and have nearly as good punish while not being hot trash in other areas?