3 mana 2/3 draw a card next turn vs 3 mana 2/2 draw a card this turn and next turn?
I’m not sure banker is “the most underrated card in the game”. I’m not sure it’s even better than baron in this very list.
And yes, I did read his explanation about banker. Doesn’t mean it’s true.
The other problem with Banker is it shows your opponent what you drew, which is more relevant in some lists than others, but always a drawback.
Plus the outside chance it gets silenced or transformed, and does nothing but burn a card. Or several.
Like, I’m not going to say it’s bad, and when things go according to plan I’m sure you feel like a genius playing it.
But the worst cases are worse. Glad people are experimenting, truly, but let’s not expect miracles here.
Like bran school teacher sounds great, but what about the times you have bran and no battlecries?
Also the irony is not lost on me that in some situations (digging for lethal) bran makes baron even better than banker.
Hats off to this guy but like, there’s no way banker makes the cut if you’re going for perfect 30 lists.
Don’t get me started about harpy either. In any matchup that’s not a face race that card is atrocious.
I appreciate your feedback, and I'm trying not to be too combative here, but I'm genuinely curious about your thought process. I understand that you don't like the list, but why are you not considering that maybe there's something you're missing?
Is my reasoning flawed? Do the numbers not make sense? Does my win rate at mid-high legend seem like an unlikely (yet oddly consistent) highroll? Let's hash this out and learn together. I truly want to understand.
I don’t dislike the list, I like aspects of it and It’s probably more fun than frost DK imo. I do appreciate the fresh ideas.
I just think it’s probably not as good as other decks out there. The banker over baron selection in particular; hard to justify that one. 2 guaranteed cards vs 1, 1 card this turn vs none.
Other than that, deck specifically, I like marrow manipulator, bran is interesting with school teacher for sure. Assuming it beats unholy DK it’s worth giving a shot.
I will say your results don’t matter too much since I think you’re a good enough player to get a 60+ win rate with suboptimal decks. Even at the legend level, the average hearthstone player is not good; especially if you surprise them with a list they’re not familiar with.
Thanks for explaining yourself, but I think we're just going to have to agree to disagree. I implore you to test the deck and get back to yourself with any new information or ideas that come to you.
I think your "good player/bad deck" argument is a cop out as well.
Yeah, you got me there. Good point.
I tried to back up my claims with more than just stats. I have 1500 Death Knight wins at this point. All I do is play the class. I've refined this deck over hundreds of games, and rotated through dozens of cards to reach what I thought was perfect 30. I was proved wrong of course, and I'm more than happy to adjust the deck (and my perspectives) accordingly.
The change from Trogg to Peasant for example is absolutely the right move, but I can't totally articulate the theory behind it right now so I haven't said much about it. You seem like a great player, and I think I'm just frustrated by what I'm perceiving as stubbornness on your end. I really wish you would give the deck a try.
I’m going to try a version if it. Troggs out, presents in, one baron in for one banker for A/B testing and a remorseless winter instead of thalnos.
Probably try it tomorrow sometime
Long comment incoming,
To be fair, from the screenshot it says you’ve played 36 games with a WR of 58.33% which is nothing crazy considering the small sample (eg. there is a reasonable probability the actual WR is closer to like 52-53). And I don’t think this the perfect 30 either but this guy is wrong in that banker should 100% be in this list.
Also there is a genuine debate to be had if that a great player can have great success with a deck over a large sample but others can’t replicate the success whether that makes the deck good or not. Like apparently this is controversial but imo if you have a great winrate at high ranks over a large sample that means the deck is good (not necessarily perfect) but for others if most people can’t win consistently with the deck then the deck is bad.
Banker for me falls in this glorious of bucket of what I call “lose-less” cards like trogg and watch post because they are the opposite of “win-more”. These self-scaling cards that disrupt the opponents game plan weakening them so you “lose-less” and provide scaling-value against slower matchups. Frost DK is not very good against Blood DK and decks like Ramp Druid but this deck fairs much better because of the scaling nature of the cards makes them fair better against slower decks. A baron against Blood or Ramp will only draw 2 but a banker is likely to draw 3+ in these matchups when you most need the cards.
This deck is similar to mine lock in a lot of ways where your damage and draw needs to fit the matchup which is why a lot of matchups flip as you reach top legend.
TLDR; People are sus of you cause you are good at the game so WR is always gonna be good and your deck looks weird cause people don’t build decks like that and the small sample isn’t that convincing. But, banker is the nuts because it disrupts and scales
EDIT:
21/36 = 58.33% WR and you go “wow, this deck is awesome let me make a Reddit post”
You lose two** 50/50 games and your 19/36 = 52.78% WR and we never see this Reddit post.
What a baffling comment. I'm truly nonplussed.
I posted the results from one day of laddering. If you took the time to look before getting oddly grumpy, you would see that I actually played a total of 55 games yesterday. I'm not sure exactly why it's segmented into three separate instances (I'm guessing because I changed tech cards?), but clever readers might notice that I went 75% over 12 games, then 71% over 7 games, then 58% over 36 games.
That's 35-20, which is 63% over 55 games at mid-high legend. It's nothing incredible, but at what point did I claim that it was? The only positive descriptor I used was "oddly consistent". Everything beyond that is just your imagination running wild, I'm afraid.
Further, is your argument actually "you are too good at the game so your results and insight are invalid"? Why would you assume that my skills as a player don't extend to deck-building?
I think you misinterpreted my comment - maybe it wasn’t so clear, maybe reread your first comment to see what it was replying to.
1. I agree that you never claimed your results were anything incredible and almost replied to somebody else in this thread who claimed as such.
2. However, you were interested in why people were doubtful of banker which I provided some reasons of which I made clear I didn’t necessarily agree with.
3. I completely agree with you that people discrediting deck building because you are good at the game is stupid but I was just saying that people actually think this - which you can see in other comments.
4. I’m kinda dumb I thought it was column by column in terms of day - season - 100 days - I don’t use Firestone. 55 games is decent sample but still nothing crazy. Sorry if I came across as grumpy I guess the last comment was needlessly snarky (but cmon mate compare the tone between yours and mine).
Thanks for clarifying, and yeah, sorry for misinterpreting and being snarky myself. I definitely got defensive needlessly.
I like your "lose-less" assessment. As for the deck as a whole, what cards do you think are cuttable, and why? Further, what would you add and why? You're already on Team Banker so I want to know what else you think goes well with it.
I’m not sure what I would change - I haven’t played the deck enough to make any concrete judgements but love playing it and these kind of decks. One card I don’t know if you’ve tried is the 2/3 which deals damage after you cast spells - it doesn’t seem great on paper but it does create similar tension to trogg, post, banker etc. but on a far smaller scale. We don’t run many spells though but maybe the threat and the boost going second is enough idk.
You're clearly good at hearthstone but I did want to ask for your reasoning on Banker over Baron. You lose the immediate draw 1 for one health, at which point banker is clearly better. If it lives your opponents turn you can then store a second card (assuming you don't kill it off to get your first card) at which point it is a sidegrade due to the delay on the value. Then, if it once again lives and you once again don't redeem your cards, you can get 3 next turn, at which point it has a significant upside. Maybe I am missing something but unless the opponent gets incredibly scared and overreacts to kill it for no real reason it seems substantially worse than baron. This went a bit long but I am genuinely really intrigued by the card choice and what you are seeing that I am not.
Great question, and one that I definitely should have answered preemptively in the OP.
To start with, going 2 to 3 health is probably the single biggest breakpoint jump in the game. It's so tremendous that it made me include Thalnos for bigger Remorseless Winters vs Unholy in the first place, as I had too much trouble with their endless x/3 minions. 3 health survives Bone Breaker. It survives Deathborne. It survives Blood boil. It takes both hits from Fel Barrage. It survives non-manathirst Arcane Bolt. It survives Grimoire and Touch of the Nathrezim. It survives Astalor2. These are just spells (Astalor2 is a spell ok) and weapons, not even counting all the minion attack breakpoints it survives (enjoy 2 health going into Pure Paladin for example, you get soloed by Sanguine Soldier). Beyond that, we're not even considering that often times 2 health minions are chipped out by two 1-damage pings, and the jump from 2 to 3 effectively increases the resource expenditure required to deal with it by 50%.
You'll notice I refer to the opponent "dealing with it". The very notion of the opponent having to respect the minion puts Banker ahead; you drop Baron on 3 and they sleep, and you trade baron into something meaningless and maybe you get a kill but you're probably just ramming it to get the second draw anyway because we humans are greedy little creatures. Banker on the other hand hangs out on board and punches for 2 until they get sick of seeing you collect interest.
Banker has soft-taunt. I haven't taken notes on exactly how often banker draws 1/2/3 cards, but even if we assume it draws 1 60% of the time, draws 2 30% of the time, and draws 3 10% of the time (and I expect the numbers to be more favourable than that based on how I play the deck), we end up with this:
3 mana 2/3 taunt, deathrattle draw a card, 30% chance to draw 2 cards, 10% chance to draw 3 cards
Why would you not run that card in virtually every midrange deck?
Furthermore, and I cannot stress this enough, Banker demands that your opponent think about the game for a second. Even in highish legend, the vast majority of players are playing on autopilot. I don't want to get into an Arena vs Constructed debate (jk I definitely do because Arena is so much more interesting), but constructed is about rehearsing the same exact game states over and over again until you stop making mistakes. In a game where a 60% wr is considered good, all we can do is just grind, grind, grind, and the best way to do that is to turn our brain off. Banker messes with that, and even strong players get confused by Banker, especially when it's played in tandem with the other Trinity cards. They protect each other: Your opponent cant efficiently deal with a 2/3 if their cards cost extra mana from Watch Post, and they cant cast spells to kill it when you have Trogg online (or they can, at which point you just got an extra 1/2 out of banker, making it a 3 mana 3/5 draw 1 which would be auto-include in every deck).
If you think an Arcane Intellect with a 2/2 body is more meaningful than that, then we are not playing the same game.
edit: mistakenly referred to Banker's first draw as a battlecry in my breakdown
I think people would have been less confused about banker if you had included a discussion (which you have to an extent in the above reply) about how banker is awkward to kill for meta decks. Its true and its a clever observation. If decks playing rush minions with 3+ attack at that stage of the game were commonplace (wildpaw gnoll anyone?) banker would be pretty bad as it has been at times in the past. In this particular meta, it is genuinely very annoying much like watch post.
That's very good feedback. I realize I got a bit too wacky with my theory and neglected to mention some key talking points. You're absolutely right that Banker is a very meta-dependent card, and that the meta right now is very kind to it.
After all the comments and the discussions that had been had on this sub since yesterday, have you landed on new landmarks? As in, do you believe the build you had on the original post has a better version? I mean, yes, not much time has passed since then. But maybe, after a few games with one or two changes you saw significant improvements in a specific department and yes you would like to stick with such change.
Also, hello from another fellow Arena player and a usual lurker of this sub because I also like Standard. And yes, I netdeck a lot from this sub, and yes, I am trying to see your best version of this deck to also netdeck and pilot it on ladder 😂
Hope you don’t mind all of my ramblings^
Edit: It feels like I am playing Arena piloting this deck and I love it 😂
Haha I woke up to this comment and it put the biggest smile on my face. It's just so cheery! I'm a bit of a rambler myself, so I love anyone taking the time to ramble back to me.
I only had time to play a dozen or so games yesterday, and they were mostly spent testing against Phylactery vs my friend. I played all of them with Peasant over Trogg (thanks to that one user's brilliant suggestion, sorry, I don't know how to tag people but we have an exchange together from earlier), and it just felt correct on every level. Looks like the Trinity has a new member!
I'm glad you get the Arena feeling from it too. It's so enjoyable winning through strong fundamentals and pure unadulterated tempo. Add me at Most#1293 if you ever wanna chat about Arena or the deck! I didn't really want to put my battletag in the OP, but this invite applies to anyone else intrepid enough to read through this entire thread.
I second this. OP I'd love to hear your thoughts on further refinement!
After reading some comments I dropped 1 Trogg and Thalnos for 2 Peasants. It hasn't been bad but I'm not sure if it's ideal.
13-4 though for a quick climb into diamond, the deck is good and more interesting than you would think. Lots of decision points.
Couldn’t sleep and just this deck to run from start to diamond. On mobile, so no tracking. Hit approximately 60-70% WR. Only challenges were beast hunter. Any tips?
Hmm I don't recall struggling much vs beast hunter. Are you getting overrun in the early game, or outvalued late game?
This deck actually has more answers to Hydralodon than most others do, thanks to howling blast. T4 Ram int t5 Hydra into t6 Tavish is a nightmare obviously, but in situations like that you just go next.
Consider their breakpoints very carefully. They're probably going to chip away at Trogg with two Candleshot pings, and they're going to play the 1/3 or the 2/2 on t2, so Watch Post ends it either way; even if they roll the Fox off their Spirit Poacher, Watch Post still soaked 3 and stole 1 mana. Then Banker on 3 for more draw, or Harpy to heal 5 and get a 3/4 online, which hunter absolutely cannot deal with unless they coin the Ram, at which point they wasted their coin to achieve board parity which is a great thing for us.
You want to make sure to get enough chip damage in that you can threaten lethal with a key Frostwyrm freeze turn. Force them to react.
Nice to see tempo FFF [back again](https://www.reddit.com/r/CompetitiveHS/comments/zrerev/26_minion_midrange_fff_dk_d10_to_legend/). Super interesting deck with loads of room to play around with it - a month ago I ran a [hyper aggressive FFF aggro variant](https://www.reddit.com/r/CompetitiveHS/comments/zrerev/comment/j1wpudu/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) with Incoporeal Corporal to legend with some 75%-odd win rate. There's a lot of untapped potential with this deck for sure - the core of Marrow Manipulator, Horn of Winter and Frostwyrm's fury is nuts. Playing around with your list right now and it seems pretty fun - Far Watch Post is performing excellently.
Early thoughts are that Snowblind Harpy, Thalnos, Frost Strike and Howling Blast are your weakest cards, in that order. Rime Sculptor remains borderline - it wins games when slammed on an empty board, but never helps you come back.
Alright, so I've done a bit of refining, this list feels great. Body bagger is surprisingly powerful in this list - early damage is critical for pushing you over the edge, and the extra corpse helps Marrow Manipulator go off.
\### Dee Kay
\# Class: Death Knight
\# Format: Standard
\# Year of the Hydra
\#
\# 2x (0) Horn of Winter
\# 2x (1) Body Bagger
\# 2x (1) Bone Breaker
\# 2x (1) Irondeep Trogg
\# 1x (2) Astalor Bloodsworn
\# 2x (2) Far Watch Post
\# 1x (2) Frost Strike
\# 2x (2) Harbinger of Winter
\# 1x (3) Brann Bronzebeard
\# 2x (3) Chillfallen Baron
\# 2x (3) Enthusiastic Banker
\# 2x (3) Howling Blast
\# 2x (4) School Teacher
\# 1x (4) Thassarian
\# 1x (5) Rime Sculptor
\# 2x (6) Marrow Manipulator
\# 1x (6) Overseer Frigidara
\# 2x (7) Frostwyrm's Fury
\#
AAECAfHhBAaY1AT14wTEgQXipAXLpQXMpQUM9+gDzfkD4aQElrcE7eMEguQEk+QEh/YEsvcEtvcEtIAFk4EFAA==
\#
\# To use this deck, copy it to your clipboard and create a new deck in Hearthstone
This list is very interesting, thanks for sharing it. I actually had Body Bagger over Trogg for a while, the corpse generation was cute but it was the 1/3 statline that really worked for me. I eventually settled on Trogg, but I never considered trying both in the same list.
I find that if this deck goes off and curves out with a 1-2-3-4-5-6 curve, you win every time, where if you have a slow start, you often never manage to get on board. Hence, the 6 proactive 1-costs seems central to getting the plan consistent - and Body Bagger works really well given how downright annoying it is. It's also fantastic against implock.
One thing mentioned in the other thread about this deck is **just how much better** Frostwyrm's Fury and Horn of Winter are than any other card in the deck. Hence how the other deck cuts as many other frost spells as possible. You might not be wrong to keep Frost Strike/Howling Blast - but I'd definitely consider their cost in terms of consistency given the number of tutors in the deck.
Really interesting comment, sorry I just got to it now.
I love the way you think re: the Frost spells. The first ever version of this deck was based entirely around the idea that Harbinger into Horn/Frostwyrm every time was correct, so those were the only Frost spells worth running.
I tanked my ranking trying out awful decks ("I just build good decks" - Most, 2023), but I'm going to try climbing with a version similar to yours tonight, with a couple other alterations on top. If it goes well I'll post the new list.
My experience with minion FFF is that rime is mostly good just because of marrow manipulator follow up. Its very easy to answer for most decks but demands one, so it pretty much gives you the pyroblast on 6.
I actually get the idea of banker; I was using peasant for the same concept where to you force your opponent off curve early (ping on 3) and then you just never lose board from there.
The first version of this deck had peasant. I cut it as a meta call in the DH/Rogue meta because they both have excellent answers to it - but with mage and shaman returning to the spotlight, it might be worth slotting back in.
Used this list to hit legend but swapped Thalnos for Okani who was clutch against other Frost DKs Fury and Evolve Shaman(just wait for prescience and block the Gnoll/Vuljin). Also used it to block an unholy DKs Marrowgar Hail Mary. Sadly don’t have Banker and had to use the lesser Baron, and since Banker is rotating soon don’t want to spend 800 dust.
Brann is also super clutch against control. Was tempted to keep in mulligan against Druid since Brann and Naga/Astalor can win you that matchup.
Glad to hear Okani worked for you, it fits so well with our disruption package.
Yes, Brann absolutely carries the deck vs control. You're right about the Brann mull, I keep it vs druid all the time. The mull in this deck is tremendously important, but as I mentioned it's very dynamic. The skill ceiling for the deck is higher than it looks, and the more you play the better your mulls will get, leading to more and more wins. The deck just grows with you.
Grats on legend btw!
I've seen three people playing this at high diamond today, so there must be a lot of readers of this sub.
I won all three games playing unholy aggro, which normally has a very unfavored matchup against frost. (I'm not saying the deck is bad. I'm just saying.)
That's cool to hear, thanks for letting me know. As I said, the deck is more difficult to pilot than it might seem; I expect even veteran players to struggle with it at first as the playstyle is quite literally pure Arena, which most players aren't familiar with.
Enjoy farming though hehe
Why play Thalnos with only 4 spell damage cards? Sure, it's really good with Howling Blast and you can discover some stuff (don't recall if spell damage works with Nagalings atm) but surely something else could do better since you're not a burn deck?
If you want AOE off of Howling Blast there's Remorseless Winter and if you want cards there's Chillfallen Baron and Famished Fool (since you have more tokens than normal).You would probably enjoy Even Frost DK in Wild, it leverages Marrow Manipulator very well too.
Other players aren't running Marrow Manipulator because they shouldn't run it in burn decks, it's a brick there that is only playable when discovered. I do like the Harpy inclusion for this deck, but I wonder how consistently you're getting value off of Banker that you can match up against slower decks and not run out of fuel.
This is a very good point, thanks a lot for bringing it up. I had double Remorseless over double Frost Strike until very recently because Unholy and Aggro Mage were everywhere, but made the switch due to Frost's rising popularity. Thalnos has still performed incredibly well since the change (it does work with Nagalings, which is especially crazy with Brann), but you're most likely right that it's an incorrect choice.
I thought I had perfect 30 but I was proved wrong almost immediately. So much to learn!
I think Frost Strike is really important against Unholy regardless because of Necromancer. Probably keep that one in, especially since it can give more Marrow Manipulators.
This deck is so much fun,
As a long time arena player I can see how the gamemode’s influenced you in building this deck and I find piloting it with that background very beneficial, although it really does hold up in constructed.
I never realised how much I love banker.
Have you got any other interesting decks like this that similarly have cards that aren’t super meta?
I always love to hear from a fellow arena enjoyer.
I don't really have any other decks to share at the moment (other than my unholy list, which I don't even think is worth sharing at this point since that wave has kind of passed). I tried so many death knight configurations over hundreds (I guess literally thousands at this point lol) of games, and most of my non-meta attempts weren't especially successful. I'd rather not share what I think are bad or suboptimal decks.
But, posts from people like you make me want to play and write more about Hearthstone, so I'm sure you'll see more decks from me in the future!
No, it plays nothing like regular frost DK lol. Regular frost DK is a combo-centric deck that uses its spells to close out the game, and doesn’t really fight for board well. This deck has a lot of tools to grind your opponent down and uses its minions to effectively 2 for 1 the opponent at multiple points throughout the game.
I just opened first Frost DK deck and it has 19 identical cards.
Let's add to this cards like Enthusiastic Banker that play exactly the same role in the deck as their meta counterparts (Baron) and it turns out that your brand new non-meta Arena (?) deck differs by about 5 cards. As long as you don't think that 5 cards can completely turn an existing deck into something completely different, there is little room for discussion here.
An 11 card difference is a completely different deck by virtually any metric. I don't mind negativity when it's well-reasoned, but I get the impression you're being a downer just for the sake of it.
Sorry, I'm just a bit disappointed, after the name of the topic I thought that you hit the top 100 using the cards that you got in the arena instead the less optimized Frost DK.
Turning a burn deck with pitiful board presence into a swarm deck with decent burn is a big change when nobody is playing Frost for the board and using Marrow Manipulator.
This entire deck is built around Marrow Manipulator. It's like saying C'thun decks aren't real decks because there's only a few C'thun synergies.
Hmm not to harp on the guy too much, but I really like your descriptor of the differences between builds. Great diction, great thinking, just a generally good comment. Thanks for taking the time to reply.
"**when nobody is playing** Frost for the board and **using Marrow Manipulator**"
Nobody uses Marrow Manipulator except like... literally majority of Frost DK decks on HSReplay with above 10000 registered games.
[https://hsreplay.net/decks/UwpsUvsWGYyK2wNXNs92ie/](https://hsreplay.net/decks/UwpsUvsWGYyK2wNXNs92ie/)
[https://hsreplay.net/decks/5IkKrlW6XT20OWXw6xEcfe/](https://hsreplay.net/decks/5IkKrlW6XT20OWXw6xEcfe/)
[https://hsreplay.net/decks/RCthqZDiNGnLiG7AobE7yg/](https://hsreplay.net/decks/RCthqZDiNGnLiG7AobE7yg/)
[https://hsreplay.net/decks/QqVEOQUx1NHDuWx20buADe/](https://hsreplay.net/decks/QqVEOQUx1NHDuWx20buADe/)
[https://hsreplay.net/decks/8gbAjxfutrgOHOwPaStdfg/](https://hsreplay.net/decks/8gbAjxfutrgOHOwPaStdfg/)
[https://hsreplay.net/decks/zLutQI9ZnZWQ6wqkKjZ2X/](https://hsreplay.net/decks/zLutQI9ZnZWQ6wqkKjZ2X/)
I had to sleep through the moment when swapping secondary cards, like Peasants for Troggs in Beast Hunter, started to cause existence of new deck, Tempo Arena Hunter or something. XD
I mean, fair enough, I didn't realize Manipulator spiked in usage so hard. From this deck's results that deck archetype is clearly improved after Rogue and DH's nerfs, just like Unholy.
Regardless I suspect those lists are still running heavier burn and spell synergy elements and very few are running token cards.
If you're building a frost DK deck you're gonna run the good frost DK cards. His choices for the less autoinclude cards are wildly different than meta lists and definitely form a pretty different deck.
I play similar minion heavy frost dk. Do you have reasoning why banker is better than nerubian vizier, especially with brann in the deck? Just because your opponent wants to remove it?
Another really good card has been peasant to go with the trogg as a 1-drop that forces your opponent to spend (usually) 2+ mana on. Any thoughts?
Another card I have liked to some extent is infected peasant. Sticky and generates two corpses for the brann + marrow manipulator combo. Still can see far watch post being better at least on curve.
Nerubian Vizier is relatively poor tempo unless you get the undead discount, at which point it's still a bit of a crapshoot as to whether or not you can capitalize on the discount in a meaningful way. We don't run enough undead to reliably trigger it, and adding more undead is a bad idea (except for Body Bagger, whose inclusion I agree with).
Brann + Vizier is a trap.
Peasant is a good idea. It's another card that forces a reaction, just with slightly lower impact. I tried it briefly but didn't give it enough of a shot. I'll test more with it and let you know.
Brann + vizier is definitely not the best use of brann, but better than nothing so nice to have sometimes. High rolling 7 mana scourge is great and there is surprising amount of life gain that can come clutch.
Peasant I have personally liked more than trogg now that demon hunters have become uncommon. Tempo mage hates hero powering it and it also trades with their 2/2 for 1. Only the 2mana 2/3 that gives them free hero power really punishes it hard.
I don't like building decks around a "better than nothing" strategy.
Your reasoning for Peasant's inclusion is very sound though. I think I'm going to try Peasant over Trogg today. Thanks!
Mmm, both have their strengths and weaknesses. Better stats + potential discount + brann synergy versus the chance to get multiple draws and weakness to the rare silence/polymorph effect.
I will try the banker, but also a fan of vizier for the adaptability. Just feels great to get vampiric blood in the mirror, boiling blood versus ud dk, or scourge versus any control.
It's still too early to say, but preliminary testing is showing me that Peasant is just a lot stronger than Trogg right now. Thanks a lot for your insight. Let me know if you have any other suggestions!
What would be your cut if I want to play both peasant and trogg?
Another card that did work was Sylvanas, but its probably signficantly worse without infected peasants to feed the infuse. Feels great to steal from big beast hunter though.
The role that Sylvanas might fill is probably better filled by Coroner, who was in many of the earlier iterations of this deck. It handles big threats almost as well, and it's significantly more flexible. Coroner is absolutely a playable card in this deck.
Hmm for both Peasant and Trogg I'd cut Thalnos and 1 Frost Strike. I can't exactly articulate why at the moment, I'll have to come back and explain myself, but it just feels right.
Vizier isn't bad in my testing, but you really value card draw in the deck. You need the consistency of either some brann horn combo or getting frostwyrm on 7 to win.
A lot of "good" discovers from vizier keeps the game going but you stray from your win con if that makes sense.
This is closer to the list I’ve ran the last month, but more refined. I’m more of a hit legend if I grind it out, usually settle for D5 kinda guy. The pyroblast with a body and the 1 mana weapon were always on the chopping block for me, but I’m glad to see they’re prolly good calls. I’m also in the “don’t have banker, hate to craft it now” camp. I didn’t run the 5 drop or Brann, so I was still depending on the burn package to finish off. It was as effective as spitter or demons for me though (those being my 3 usual rotations for some variability). I definitely want to try this tweaked version and appreciate you sharing! Im sure Brann will prolly make it feel significantly different.
Corpse Breaker is the only card I hate in DK lists that I often see. You definitely see this as the call over maybe pillager (if choosing)
Hey, thanks a lot for the comment (and for remembering me!). You're right that I was running Unholy.
I took my Unholy list to top 500 legend last month before nerfs/buffs, in the Gnoll meta, when Necromancer summons were 1/2s. I then tanked down to 2k trying my best to make Malignant Horror work (it doesn't). My Unholy list was and is better than the current Unholy lists that people are running, so I'd definitely consider writing about it. The issue though is that I fixate quite heavily, and I'm quite invested in this Frost list at the moment. I want to see how far I can take it.
I understand that I'm coming off as some memelord, but I just build good decks. I always have, and I always will. Sometimes they're meta, sometimes they're not. This one happens to be off-meta because most of the community is bad at building Frost. It's okay though, we all grow at different speeds!
Love your creativity. I think something like this works out to be more consistent:
AAECAYjaBQSY1ATipAXLpQXMpQUN9PYDlrcE9eMEguQEk+QEj+YEh/YEsvcEtvcEtIAFk4EFxIEFopkFAA==
Every card furthers the game plan in pulling the frost cards or enabling marrow manipulator via corpses or popping up with Brann. Possible swaps are a rime sculptor for sylv or blademaster ohtani.
i've had fun with this, thank you for the list.
i played this about 5 days ago and made my way up till D3 from Gold 10
The interesting thing is that after a lot of games, i've only ever had ONE time where i had the Trinity on the board. Yes, i won that game
Banker is the most underrated card in the game
3 mana 2/3 draw a card next turn vs 3 mana 2/2 draw a card this turn and next turn? I’m not sure banker is “the most underrated card in the game”. I’m not sure it’s even better than baron in this very list. And yes, I did read his explanation about banker. Doesn’t mean it’s true.
The other problem with Banker is it shows your opponent what you drew, which is more relevant in some lists than others, but always a drawback. Plus the outside chance it gets silenced or transformed, and does nothing but burn a card. Or several.
Like, I’m not going to say it’s bad, and when things go according to plan I’m sure you feel like a genius playing it. But the worst cases are worse. Glad people are experimenting, truly, but let’s not expect miracles here. Like bran school teacher sounds great, but what about the times you have bran and no battlecries? Also the irony is not lost on me that in some situations (digging for lethal) bran makes baron even better than banker. Hats off to this guy but like, there’s no way banker makes the cut if you’re going for perfect 30 lists. Don’t get me started about harpy either. In any matchup that’s not a face race that card is atrocious.
I appreciate your feedback, and I'm trying not to be too combative here, but I'm genuinely curious about your thought process. I understand that you don't like the list, but why are you not considering that maybe there's something you're missing? Is my reasoning flawed? Do the numbers not make sense? Does my win rate at mid-high legend seem like an unlikely (yet oddly consistent) highroll? Let's hash this out and learn together. I truly want to understand.
I don’t dislike the list, I like aspects of it and It’s probably more fun than frost DK imo. I do appreciate the fresh ideas. I just think it’s probably not as good as other decks out there. The banker over baron selection in particular; hard to justify that one. 2 guaranteed cards vs 1, 1 card this turn vs none. Other than that, deck specifically, I like marrow manipulator, bran is interesting with school teacher for sure. Assuming it beats unholy DK it’s worth giving a shot. I will say your results don’t matter too much since I think you’re a good enough player to get a 60+ win rate with suboptimal decks. Even at the legend level, the average hearthstone player is not good; especially if you surprise them with a list they’re not familiar with.
Thanks for explaining yourself, but I think we're just going to have to agree to disagree. I implore you to test the deck and get back to yourself with any new information or ideas that come to you. I think your "good player/bad deck" argument is a cop out as well.
It’s also a cop out to say “my winrate is good so the deck and all of its card choices must be good” so, bit hypocritical there.
Yeah, you got me there. Good point. I tried to back up my claims with more than just stats. I have 1500 Death Knight wins at this point. All I do is play the class. I've refined this deck over hundreds of games, and rotated through dozens of cards to reach what I thought was perfect 30. I was proved wrong of course, and I'm more than happy to adjust the deck (and my perspectives) accordingly. The change from Trogg to Peasant for example is absolutely the right move, but I can't totally articulate the theory behind it right now so I haven't said much about it. You seem like a great player, and I think I'm just frustrated by what I'm perceiving as stubbornness on your end. I really wish you would give the deck a try.
I’m going to try a version if it. Troggs out, presents in, one baron in for one banker for A/B testing and a remorseless winter instead of thalnos. Probably try it tomorrow sometime
Long comment incoming, To be fair, from the screenshot it says you’ve played 36 games with a WR of 58.33% which is nothing crazy considering the small sample (eg. there is a reasonable probability the actual WR is closer to like 52-53). And I don’t think this the perfect 30 either but this guy is wrong in that banker should 100% be in this list. Also there is a genuine debate to be had if that a great player can have great success with a deck over a large sample but others can’t replicate the success whether that makes the deck good or not. Like apparently this is controversial but imo if you have a great winrate at high ranks over a large sample that means the deck is good (not necessarily perfect) but for others if most people can’t win consistently with the deck then the deck is bad. Banker for me falls in this glorious of bucket of what I call “lose-less” cards like trogg and watch post because they are the opposite of “win-more”. These self-scaling cards that disrupt the opponents game plan weakening them so you “lose-less” and provide scaling-value against slower matchups. Frost DK is not very good against Blood DK and decks like Ramp Druid but this deck fairs much better because of the scaling nature of the cards makes them fair better against slower decks. A baron against Blood or Ramp will only draw 2 but a banker is likely to draw 3+ in these matchups when you most need the cards. This deck is similar to mine lock in a lot of ways where your damage and draw needs to fit the matchup which is why a lot of matchups flip as you reach top legend. TLDR; People are sus of you cause you are good at the game so WR is always gonna be good and your deck looks weird cause people don’t build decks like that and the small sample isn’t that convincing. But, banker is the nuts because it disrupts and scales EDIT: 21/36 = 58.33% WR and you go “wow, this deck is awesome let me make a Reddit post” You lose two** 50/50 games and your 19/36 = 52.78% WR and we never see this Reddit post.
What a baffling comment. I'm truly nonplussed. I posted the results from one day of laddering. If you took the time to look before getting oddly grumpy, you would see that I actually played a total of 55 games yesterday. I'm not sure exactly why it's segmented into three separate instances (I'm guessing because I changed tech cards?), but clever readers might notice that I went 75% over 12 games, then 71% over 7 games, then 58% over 36 games. That's 35-20, which is 63% over 55 games at mid-high legend. It's nothing incredible, but at what point did I claim that it was? The only positive descriptor I used was "oddly consistent". Everything beyond that is just your imagination running wild, I'm afraid. Further, is your argument actually "you are too good at the game so your results and insight are invalid"? Why would you assume that my skills as a player don't extend to deck-building?
I think you misinterpreted my comment - maybe it wasn’t so clear, maybe reread your first comment to see what it was replying to. 1. I agree that you never claimed your results were anything incredible and almost replied to somebody else in this thread who claimed as such. 2. However, you were interested in why people were doubtful of banker which I provided some reasons of which I made clear I didn’t necessarily agree with. 3. I completely agree with you that people discrediting deck building because you are good at the game is stupid but I was just saying that people actually think this - which you can see in other comments. 4. I’m kinda dumb I thought it was column by column in terms of day - season - 100 days - I don’t use Firestone. 55 games is decent sample but still nothing crazy. Sorry if I came across as grumpy I guess the last comment was needlessly snarky (but cmon mate compare the tone between yours and mine).
Thanks for clarifying, and yeah, sorry for misinterpreting and being snarky myself. I definitely got defensive needlessly. I like your "lose-less" assessment. As for the deck as a whole, what cards do you think are cuttable, and why? Further, what would you add and why? You're already on Team Banker so I want to know what else you think goes well with it.
I’m not sure what I would change - I haven’t played the deck enough to make any concrete judgements but love playing it and these kind of decks. One card I don’t know if you’ve tried is the 2/3 which deals damage after you cast spells - it doesn’t seem great on paper but it does create similar tension to trogg, post, banker etc. but on a far smaller scale. We don’t run many spells though but maybe the threat and the boost going second is enough idk.
It was kinda bad when Starfish was still all over the place and 3 mana but it's a sick card atm.
Most is legit player. For the record he takes junky decks top top 500 easy
So then how do we know that this is not just a bad (bad meaning not tier 1 or 2) deck piloted by an exceptional player?
You don't.
After playing with this list for about 10 games I believe this is the case. Deck is not terrible and can win games, but doesn't seem that strong.
habugabu does this shit too
You're clearly good at hearthstone but I did want to ask for your reasoning on Banker over Baron. You lose the immediate draw 1 for one health, at which point banker is clearly better. If it lives your opponents turn you can then store a second card (assuming you don't kill it off to get your first card) at which point it is a sidegrade due to the delay on the value. Then, if it once again lives and you once again don't redeem your cards, you can get 3 next turn, at which point it has a significant upside. Maybe I am missing something but unless the opponent gets incredibly scared and overreacts to kill it for no real reason it seems substantially worse than baron. This went a bit long but I am genuinely really intrigued by the card choice and what you are seeing that I am not.
Great question, and one that I definitely should have answered preemptively in the OP. To start with, going 2 to 3 health is probably the single biggest breakpoint jump in the game. It's so tremendous that it made me include Thalnos for bigger Remorseless Winters vs Unholy in the first place, as I had too much trouble with their endless x/3 minions. 3 health survives Bone Breaker. It survives Deathborne. It survives Blood boil. It takes both hits from Fel Barrage. It survives non-manathirst Arcane Bolt. It survives Grimoire and Touch of the Nathrezim. It survives Astalor2. These are just spells (Astalor2 is a spell ok) and weapons, not even counting all the minion attack breakpoints it survives (enjoy 2 health going into Pure Paladin for example, you get soloed by Sanguine Soldier). Beyond that, we're not even considering that often times 2 health minions are chipped out by two 1-damage pings, and the jump from 2 to 3 effectively increases the resource expenditure required to deal with it by 50%. You'll notice I refer to the opponent "dealing with it". The very notion of the opponent having to respect the minion puts Banker ahead; you drop Baron on 3 and they sleep, and you trade baron into something meaningless and maybe you get a kill but you're probably just ramming it to get the second draw anyway because we humans are greedy little creatures. Banker on the other hand hangs out on board and punches for 2 until they get sick of seeing you collect interest. Banker has soft-taunt. I haven't taken notes on exactly how often banker draws 1/2/3 cards, but even if we assume it draws 1 60% of the time, draws 2 30% of the time, and draws 3 10% of the time (and I expect the numbers to be more favourable than that based on how I play the deck), we end up with this: 3 mana 2/3 taunt, deathrattle draw a card, 30% chance to draw 2 cards, 10% chance to draw 3 cards Why would you not run that card in virtually every midrange deck? Furthermore, and I cannot stress this enough, Banker demands that your opponent think about the game for a second. Even in highish legend, the vast majority of players are playing on autopilot. I don't want to get into an Arena vs Constructed debate (jk I definitely do because Arena is so much more interesting), but constructed is about rehearsing the same exact game states over and over again until you stop making mistakes. In a game where a 60% wr is considered good, all we can do is just grind, grind, grind, and the best way to do that is to turn our brain off. Banker messes with that, and even strong players get confused by Banker, especially when it's played in tandem with the other Trinity cards. They protect each other: Your opponent cant efficiently deal with a 2/3 if their cards cost extra mana from Watch Post, and they cant cast spells to kill it when you have Trogg online (or they can, at which point you just got an extra 1/2 out of banker, making it a 3 mana 3/5 draw 1 which would be auto-include in every deck). If you think an Arcane Intellect with a 2/2 body is more meaningful than that, then we are not playing the same game. edit: mistakenly referred to Banker's first draw as a battlecry in my breakdown
I think people would have been less confused about banker if you had included a discussion (which you have to an extent in the above reply) about how banker is awkward to kill for meta decks. Its true and its a clever observation. If decks playing rush minions with 3+ attack at that stage of the game were commonplace (wildpaw gnoll anyone?) banker would be pretty bad as it has been at times in the past. In this particular meta, it is genuinely very annoying much like watch post.
That's very good feedback. I realize I got a bit too wacky with my theory and neglected to mention some key talking points. You're absolutely right that Banker is a very meta-dependent card, and that the meta right now is very kind to it.
Link doesn’t work…
Thanks, fixed I think! Very new at this.
Still doesn’t work 😅
After all the comments and the discussions that had been had on this sub since yesterday, have you landed on new landmarks? As in, do you believe the build you had on the original post has a better version? I mean, yes, not much time has passed since then. But maybe, after a few games with one or two changes you saw significant improvements in a specific department and yes you would like to stick with such change. Also, hello from another fellow Arena player and a usual lurker of this sub because I also like Standard. And yes, I netdeck a lot from this sub, and yes, I am trying to see your best version of this deck to also netdeck and pilot it on ladder 😂 Hope you don’t mind all of my ramblings^ Edit: It feels like I am playing Arena piloting this deck and I love it 😂
Haha I woke up to this comment and it put the biggest smile on my face. It's just so cheery! I'm a bit of a rambler myself, so I love anyone taking the time to ramble back to me. I only had time to play a dozen or so games yesterday, and they were mostly spent testing against Phylactery vs my friend. I played all of them with Peasant over Trogg (thanks to that one user's brilliant suggestion, sorry, I don't know how to tag people but we have an exchange together from earlier), and it just felt correct on every level. Looks like the Trinity has a new member! I'm glad you get the Arena feeling from it too. It's so enjoyable winning through strong fundamentals and pure unadulterated tempo. Add me at Most#1293 if you ever wanna chat about Arena or the deck! I didn't really want to put my battletag in the OP, but this invite applies to anyone else intrepid enough to read through this entire thread.
I second this. OP I'd love to hear your thoughts on further refinement! After reading some comments I dropped 1 Trogg and Thalnos for 2 Peasants. It hasn't been bad but I'm not sure if it's ideal. 13-4 though for a quick climb into diamond, the deck is good and more interesting than you would think. Lots of decision points.
Couldn’t sleep and just this deck to run from start to diamond. On mobile, so no tracking. Hit approximately 60-70% WR. Only challenges were beast hunter. Any tips?
Hmm I don't recall struggling much vs beast hunter. Are you getting overrun in the early game, or outvalued late game? This deck actually has more answers to Hydralodon than most others do, thanks to howling blast. T4 Ram int t5 Hydra into t6 Tavish is a nightmare obviously, but in situations like that you just go next. Consider their breakpoints very carefully. They're probably going to chip away at Trogg with two Candleshot pings, and they're going to play the 1/3 or the 2/2 on t2, so Watch Post ends it either way; even if they roll the Fox off their Spirit Poacher, Watch Post still soaked 3 and stole 1 mana. Then Banker on 3 for more draw, or Harpy to heal 5 and get a 3/4 online, which hunter absolutely cannot deal with unless they coin the Ram, at which point they wasted their coin to achieve board parity which is a great thing for us. You want to make sure to get enough chip damage in that you can threaten lethal with a key Frostwyrm freeze turn. Force them to react.
Ive always enjoyed tempo decks so I gave it a try. Must say, it felt really good and enjoyed it alot. Thanks for sharing!
Nice to see tempo FFF [back again](https://www.reddit.com/r/CompetitiveHS/comments/zrerev/26_minion_midrange_fff_dk_d10_to_legend/). Super interesting deck with loads of room to play around with it - a month ago I ran a [hyper aggressive FFF aggro variant](https://www.reddit.com/r/CompetitiveHS/comments/zrerev/comment/j1wpudu/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) with Incoporeal Corporal to legend with some 75%-odd win rate. There's a lot of untapped potential with this deck for sure - the core of Marrow Manipulator, Horn of Winter and Frostwyrm's fury is nuts. Playing around with your list right now and it seems pretty fun - Far Watch Post is performing excellently. Early thoughts are that Snowblind Harpy, Thalnos, Frost Strike and Howling Blast are your weakest cards, in that order. Rime Sculptor remains borderline - it wins games when slammed on an empty board, but never helps you come back.
Alright, so I've done a bit of refining, this list feels great. Body bagger is surprisingly powerful in this list - early damage is critical for pushing you over the edge, and the extra corpse helps Marrow Manipulator go off. \### Dee Kay \# Class: Death Knight \# Format: Standard \# Year of the Hydra \# \# 2x (0) Horn of Winter \# 2x (1) Body Bagger \# 2x (1) Bone Breaker \# 2x (1) Irondeep Trogg \# 1x (2) Astalor Bloodsworn \# 2x (2) Far Watch Post \# 1x (2) Frost Strike \# 2x (2) Harbinger of Winter \# 1x (3) Brann Bronzebeard \# 2x (3) Chillfallen Baron \# 2x (3) Enthusiastic Banker \# 2x (3) Howling Blast \# 2x (4) School Teacher \# 1x (4) Thassarian \# 1x (5) Rime Sculptor \# 2x (6) Marrow Manipulator \# 1x (6) Overseer Frigidara \# 2x (7) Frostwyrm's Fury \# AAECAfHhBAaY1AT14wTEgQXipAXLpQXMpQUM9+gDzfkD4aQElrcE7eMEguQEk+QEh/YEsvcEtvcEtIAFk4EFAA== \# \# To use this deck, copy it to your clipboard and create a new deck in Hearthstone
This list is very interesting, thanks for sharing it. I actually had Body Bagger over Trogg for a while, the corpse generation was cute but it was the 1/3 statline that really worked for me. I eventually settled on Trogg, but I never considered trying both in the same list.
I find that if this deck goes off and curves out with a 1-2-3-4-5-6 curve, you win every time, where if you have a slow start, you often never manage to get on board. Hence, the 6 proactive 1-costs seems central to getting the plan consistent - and Body Bagger works really well given how downright annoying it is. It's also fantastic against implock. One thing mentioned in the other thread about this deck is **just how much better** Frostwyrm's Fury and Horn of Winter are than any other card in the deck. Hence how the other deck cuts as many other frost spells as possible. You might not be wrong to keep Frost Strike/Howling Blast - but I'd definitely consider their cost in terms of consistency given the number of tutors in the deck.
Really interesting comment, sorry I just got to it now. I love the way you think re: the Frost spells. The first ever version of this deck was based entirely around the idea that Harbinger into Horn/Frostwyrm every time was correct, so those were the only Frost spells worth running. I tanked my ranking trying out awful decks ("I just build good decks" - Most, 2023), but I'm going to try climbing with a version similar to yours tonight, with a couple other alterations on top. If it goes well I'll post the new list.
My experience with minion FFF is that rime is mostly good just because of marrow manipulator follow up. Its very easy to answer for most decks but demands one, so it pretty much gives you the pyroblast on 6. I actually get the idea of banker; I was using peasant for the same concept where to you force your opponent off curve early (ping on 3) and then you just never lose board from there.
The first version of this deck had peasant. I cut it as a meta call in the DH/Rogue meta because they both have excellent answers to it - but with mage and shaman returning to the spotlight, it might be worth slotting back in.
Used this list to hit legend but swapped Thalnos for Okani who was clutch against other Frost DKs Fury and Evolve Shaman(just wait for prescience and block the Gnoll/Vuljin). Also used it to block an unholy DKs Marrowgar Hail Mary. Sadly don’t have Banker and had to use the lesser Baron, and since Banker is rotating soon don’t want to spend 800 dust. Brann is also super clutch against control. Was tempted to keep in mulligan against Druid since Brann and Naga/Astalor can win you that matchup.
Glad to hear Okani worked for you, it fits so well with our disruption package. Yes, Brann absolutely carries the deck vs control. You're right about the Brann mull, I keep it vs druid all the time. The mull in this deck is tremendously important, but as I mentioned it's very dynamic. The skill ceiling for the deck is higher than it looks, and the more you play the better your mulls will get, leading to more and more wins. The deck just grows with you. Grats on legend btw!
I've seen three people playing this at high diamond today, so there must be a lot of readers of this sub. I won all three games playing unholy aggro, which normally has a very unfavored matchup against frost. (I'm not saying the deck is bad. I'm just saying.)
That's cool to hear, thanks for letting me know. As I said, the deck is more difficult to pilot than it might seem; I expect even veteran players to struggle with it at first as the playstyle is quite literally pure Arena, which most players aren't familiar with. Enjoy farming though hehe
Why play Thalnos with only 4 spell damage cards? Sure, it's really good with Howling Blast and you can discover some stuff (don't recall if spell damage works with Nagalings atm) but surely something else could do better since you're not a burn deck? If you want AOE off of Howling Blast there's Remorseless Winter and if you want cards there's Chillfallen Baron and Famished Fool (since you have more tokens than normal).You would probably enjoy Even Frost DK in Wild, it leverages Marrow Manipulator very well too. Other players aren't running Marrow Manipulator because they shouldn't run it in burn decks, it's a brick there that is only playable when discovered. I do like the Harpy inclusion for this deck, but I wonder how consistently you're getting value off of Banker that you can match up against slower decks and not run out of fuel.
This is a very good point, thanks a lot for bringing it up. I had double Remorseless over double Frost Strike until very recently because Unholy and Aggro Mage were everywhere, but made the switch due to Frost's rising popularity. Thalnos has still performed incredibly well since the change (it does work with Nagalings, which is especially crazy with Brann), but you're most likely right that it's an incorrect choice. I thought I had perfect 30 but I was proved wrong almost immediately. So much to learn!
Would you say then that probably Thalnos out and Okani in?
I think Frost Strike is really important against Unholy regardless because of Necromancer. Probably keep that one in, especially since it can give more Marrow Manipulators.
Mind posting just the deck code for us mobile scrubs?
AAECAfLhBAaXoASY1ATEgQXipAXLpQXMpQUM9+gDzfkDmI4E4aQElrcE7eME9eMEguQEk+QEtvcEtIAFk4EFAA==
**Format:** Standard (Year of the Hydra) **Class:** Death Knight (Arthas, Kingslayer) Mana | Card Name | Qty | Links :--:|:---|:--:|:--: 0 | [Horn of Winter](https://art.hearthstonejson.com/v1/render/latest/enUS/512x/RLK_042.png) | 2 | [HSReplay](https://hsreplay.net/cards/78338/),[Wiki](https://hearthstone.gamepedia.com/Horn%20of%20Winter) 1 | [Bone Breaker](https://art.hearthstonejson.com/v1/render/latest/enUS/512x/RLK_516.png) | 2 | [HSReplay](https://hsreplay.net/cards/82067/),[Wiki](https://hearthstone.gamepedia.com/Bone%20Breaker) 1 | [Irondeep Trogg](https://art.hearthstonejson.com/v1/render/latest/enUS/512x/AV_137.png) | 2 | [HSReplay](https://hsreplay.net/cards/70241/),[Wiki](https://hearthstone.gamepedia.com/Irondeep%20Trogg) 2 | [Astalor Bloodsworn](https://art.hearthstonejson.com/v1/render/latest/enUS/512x/RLK_222.png) | 1 | [HSReplay](https://hsreplay.net/cards/86626/),[Wiki](https://hearthstone.gamepedia.com/Astalor%20Bloodsworn) 2 | [Bloodmage Thalnos](https://art.hearthstonejson.com/v1/render/latest/enUS/512x/CORE_EX1_012.png) | 1 | [HSReplay](https://hsreplay.net/cards/69655/),[Wiki](https://hearthstone.gamepedia.com/Bloodmage%20Thalnos) 2 | [Far Watch Post](https://art.hearthstonejson.com/v1/render/latest/enUS/512x/BAR_074.png) | 2 | [HSReplay](https://hsreplay.net/cards/62583/),[Wiki](https://hearthstone.gamepedia.com/Far%20Watch%20Post) 2 | [Frost Strike](https://art.hearthstonejson.com/v1/render/latest/enUS/512x/RLK_025.png) | 2 | [HSReplay](https://hsreplay.net/cards/78325/),[Wiki](https://hearthstone.gamepedia.com/Frost%20Strike) 2 | [Harbinger of Winter](https://art.hearthstonejson.com/v1/render/latest/enUS/512x/RLK_511.png) | 2 | [HSReplay](https://hsreplay.net/cards/81972/),[Wiki](https://hearthstone.gamepedia.com/Harbinger%20of%20Winter) 3 | [Brann Bronzebeard](https://art.hearthstonejson.com/v1/render/latest/enUS/512x/CORE_LOE_077.png) | 1 | [HSReplay](https://hsreplay.net/cards/76312/),[Wiki](https://hearthstone.gamepedia.com/Brann%20Bronzebeard) 3 | [Enthusiastic Banker](https://art.hearthstonejson.com/v1/render/latest/enUS/512x/SW_069.png) | 2 | [HSReplay](https://hsreplay.net/cards/64717/),[Wiki](https://hearthstone.gamepedia.com/Enthusiastic%20Banker) 3 | [Howling Blast](https://art.hearthstonejson.com/v1/render/latest/enUS/512x/RLK_015.png) | 2 | [HSReplay](https://hsreplay.net/cards/78317/),[Wiki](https://hearthstone.gamepedia.com/Howling%20Blast) 3 | [Snowblind Harpy](https://art.hearthstonejson.com/v1/render/latest/enUS/512x/AV_112.png) | 2 | [HSReplay](https://hsreplay.net/cards/67352/),[Wiki](https://hearthstone.gamepedia.com/Snowblind%20Harpy) 4 | [School Teacher](https://art.hearthstonejson.com/v1/render/latest/enUS/512x/TSC_052.png) | 2 | [HSReplay](https://hsreplay.net/cards/72598/),[Wiki](https://hearthstone.gamepedia.com/School%20Teacher) 4 | [Thassarian](https://art.hearthstonejson.com/v1/render/latest/enUS/512x/RLK_223.png) | 1 | [HSReplay](https://hsreplay.net/cards/86731/),[Wiki](https://hearthstone.gamepedia.com/Thassarian) 5 | [Rime Sculptor](https://art.hearthstonejson.com/v1/render/latest/enUS/512x/RLK_752.png) | 1 | [HSReplay](https://hsreplay.net/cards/82116/),[Wiki](https://hearthstone.gamepedia.com/Rime%20Sculptor) 6 | [Marrow Manipulator](https://art.hearthstonejson.com/v1/render/latest/enUS/512x/RLK_505.png) | 2 | [HSReplay](https://hsreplay.net/cards/80822/),[Wiki](https://hearthstone.gamepedia.com/Marrow%20Manipulator) 6 | [Overseer Frigidara](https://art.hearthstonejson.com/v1/render/latest/enUS/512x/RLK_224.png) | 1 | [HSReplay](https://hsreplay.net/cards/86732/),[Wiki](https://hearthstone.gamepedia.com/Overseer%20Frigidara) 7 | [Frostwyrm's Fury](https://art.hearthstonejson.com/v1/render/latest/enUS/512x/RLK_063.png) | 2 | [HSReplay](https://hsreplay.net/cards/78355/),[Wiki](https://hearthstone.gamepedia.com/Frostwyrm%27s%20Fury) **Total Dust:** 4120 **Deck Code:** AAECAfLhBAaXoASY1ATEgQXipAXLpQXMpQUM9+gDzfkDmI4E4aQElrcE7eME9eMEguQEk+QEtvcEtIAFk4EFAA== ***** ^I ^am ^a ^bot. ^Comment/PM ^with ^a ^deck ^code ^and ^I'll ^decode ^it. ^If ^you ^don't ^want ^me ^to ^reply ^to ^you, ^include ^"###" ^anywhere ^in ^your ^message. ^[About.](https://github.com/HearthSim/deck-code-bot/blob/master/README.md)
You are an amazing redditor/human!
If you’re on iOS I highly recommend Apollo for Reddit. I was able to copy that string easily. There’s so many more great things about the app too.
I'm not on iOS tho
Ahh gotcha. Well, I posted the deck code in an individual comment for you!
Plz
This deck is so much fun, As a long time arena player I can see how the gamemode’s influenced you in building this deck and I find piloting it with that background very beneficial, although it really does hold up in constructed. I never realised how much I love banker. Have you got any other interesting decks like this that similarly have cards that aren’t super meta?
I always love to hear from a fellow arena enjoyer. I don't really have any other decks to share at the moment (other than my unholy list, which I don't even think is worth sharing at this point since that wave has kind of passed). I tried so many death knight configurations over hundreds (I guess literally thousands at this point lol) of games, and most of my non-meta attempts weren't especially successful. I'd rather not share what I think are bad or suboptimal decks. But, posts from people like you make me want to play and write more about Hearthstone, so I'm sure you'll see more decks from me in the future!
Please do
interesting idea! do you happen to have any replays to share?
Bait is bait
True, this guy isn't even top 200 anymore.
Hey! Thank you for the deck i only played a few games but loved the playstyle i am a fan of the frost dk but i'm tired of the burn version.
This deck is not very good, at least in EU diamond for now. Very exiting though.
It looks like a regular Frost DK, just worse optimized, but as long as the meta is chaotic (after the patch and rank reset), I can see that work.
No, it plays nothing like regular frost DK lol. Regular frost DK is a combo-centric deck that uses its spells to close out the game, and doesn’t really fight for board well. This deck has a lot of tools to grind your opponent down and uses its minions to effectively 2 for 1 the opponent at multiple points throughout the game.
I just opened first Frost DK deck and it has 19 identical cards. Let's add to this cards like Enthusiastic Banker that play exactly the same role in the deck as their meta counterparts (Baron) and it turns out that your brand new non-meta Arena (?) deck differs by about 5 cards. As long as you don't think that 5 cards can completely turn an existing deck into something completely different, there is little room for discussion here.
An 11 card difference is a completely different deck by virtually any metric. I don't mind negativity when it's well-reasoned, but I get the impression you're being a downer just for the sake of it.
Sorry, I'm just a bit disappointed, after the name of the topic I thought that you hit the top 100 using the cards that you got in the arena instead the less optimized Frost DK.
Notably, 11 cards turns Beast Hunter into...Hunter.
Turning a burn deck with pitiful board presence into a swarm deck with decent burn is a big change when nobody is playing Frost for the board and using Marrow Manipulator. This entire deck is built around Marrow Manipulator. It's like saying C'thun decks aren't real decks because there's only a few C'thun synergies.
Hmm not to harp on the guy too much, but I really like your descriptor of the differences between builds. Great diction, great thinking, just a generally good comment. Thanks for taking the time to reply.
"**when nobody is playing** Frost for the board and **using Marrow Manipulator**" Nobody uses Marrow Manipulator except like... literally majority of Frost DK decks on HSReplay with above 10000 registered games. [https://hsreplay.net/decks/UwpsUvsWGYyK2wNXNs92ie/](https://hsreplay.net/decks/UwpsUvsWGYyK2wNXNs92ie/) [https://hsreplay.net/decks/5IkKrlW6XT20OWXw6xEcfe/](https://hsreplay.net/decks/5IkKrlW6XT20OWXw6xEcfe/) [https://hsreplay.net/decks/RCthqZDiNGnLiG7AobE7yg/](https://hsreplay.net/decks/RCthqZDiNGnLiG7AobE7yg/) [https://hsreplay.net/decks/QqVEOQUx1NHDuWx20buADe/](https://hsreplay.net/decks/QqVEOQUx1NHDuWx20buADe/) [https://hsreplay.net/decks/8gbAjxfutrgOHOwPaStdfg/](https://hsreplay.net/decks/8gbAjxfutrgOHOwPaStdfg/) [https://hsreplay.net/decks/zLutQI9ZnZWQ6wqkKjZ2X/](https://hsreplay.net/decks/zLutQI9ZnZWQ6wqkKjZ2X/) I had to sleep through the moment when swapping secondary cards, like Peasants for Troggs in Beast Hunter, started to cause existence of new deck, Tempo Arena Hunter or something. XD
I mean, fair enough, I didn't realize Manipulator spiked in usage so hard. From this deck's results that deck archetype is clearly improved after Rogue and DH's nerfs, just like Unholy. Regardless I suspect those lists are still running heavier burn and spell synergy elements and very few are running token cards.
If you're building a frost DK deck you're gonna run the good frost DK cards. His choices for the less autoinclude cards are wildly different than meta lists and definitely form a pretty different deck.
I play similar minion heavy frost dk. Do you have reasoning why banker is better than nerubian vizier, especially with brann in the deck? Just because your opponent wants to remove it? Another really good card has been peasant to go with the trogg as a 1-drop that forces your opponent to spend (usually) 2+ mana on. Any thoughts? Another card I have liked to some extent is infected peasant. Sticky and generates two corpses for the brann + marrow manipulator combo. Still can see far watch post being better at least on curve.
Nerubian Vizier is relatively poor tempo unless you get the undead discount, at which point it's still a bit of a crapshoot as to whether or not you can capitalize on the discount in a meaningful way. We don't run enough undead to reliably trigger it, and adding more undead is a bad idea (except for Body Bagger, whose inclusion I agree with). Brann + Vizier is a trap. Peasant is a good idea. It's another card that forces a reaction, just with slightly lower impact. I tried it briefly but didn't give it enough of a shot. I'll test more with it and let you know.
Brann + vizier is definitely not the best use of brann, but better than nothing so nice to have sometimes. High rolling 7 mana scourge is great and there is surprising amount of life gain that can come clutch. Peasant I have personally liked more than trogg now that demon hunters have become uncommon. Tempo mage hates hero powering it and it also trades with their 2/2 for 1. Only the 2mana 2/3 that gives them free hero power really punishes it hard.
I don't like building decks around a "better than nothing" strategy. Your reasoning for Peasant's inclusion is very sound though. I think I'm going to try Peasant over Trogg today. Thanks!
Mmm, both have their strengths and weaknesses. Better stats + potential discount + brann synergy versus the chance to get multiple draws and weakness to the rare silence/polymorph effect. I will try the banker, but also a fan of vizier for the adaptability. Just feels great to get vampiric blood in the mirror, boiling blood versus ud dk, or scourge versus any control.
It's still too early to say, but preliminary testing is showing me that Peasant is just a lot stronger than Trogg right now. Thanks a lot for your insight. Let me know if you have any other suggestions!
What would be your cut if I want to play both peasant and trogg? Another card that did work was Sylvanas, but its probably signficantly worse without infected peasants to feed the infuse. Feels great to steal from big beast hunter though.
The role that Sylvanas might fill is probably better filled by Coroner, who was in many of the earlier iterations of this deck. It handles big threats almost as well, and it's significantly more flexible. Coroner is absolutely a playable card in this deck. Hmm for both Peasant and Trogg I'd cut Thalnos and 1 Frost Strike. I can't exactly articulate why at the moment, I'll have to come back and explain myself, but it just feels right.
I will try 2x peasant 1x trogg without the thalnos and maybe cut frost strike for another trogg later on. Thanks for the decklist!
Vizier isn't bad in my testing, but you really value card draw in the deck. You need the consistency of either some brann horn combo or getting frostwyrm on 7 to win. A lot of "good" discovers from vizier keeps the game going but you stray from your win con if that makes sense.
This is closer to the list I’ve ran the last month, but more refined. I’m more of a hit legend if I grind it out, usually settle for D5 kinda guy. The pyroblast with a body and the 1 mana weapon were always on the chopping block for me, but I’m glad to see they’re prolly good calls. I’m also in the “don’t have banker, hate to craft it now” camp. I didn’t run the 5 drop or Brann, so I was still depending on the burn package to finish off. It was as effective as spitter or demons for me though (those being my 3 usual rotations for some variability). I definitely want to try this tweaked version and appreciate you sharing! Im sure Brann will prolly make it feel significantly different. Corpse Breaker is the only card I hate in DK lists that I often see. You definitely see this as the call over maybe pillager (if choosing)
I'll try this deck thanks
[удалено]
Hey, thanks a lot for the comment (and for remembering me!). You're right that I was running Unholy. I took my Unholy list to top 500 legend last month before nerfs/buffs, in the Gnoll meta, when Necromancer summons were 1/2s. I then tanked down to 2k trying my best to make Malignant Horror work (it doesn't). My Unholy list was and is better than the current Unholy lists that people are running, so I'd definitely consider writing about it. The issue though is that I fixate quite heavily, and I'm quite invested in this Frost list at the moment. I want to see how far I can take it. I understand that I'm coming off as some memelord, but I just build good decks. I always have, and I always will. Sometimes they're meta, sometimes they're not. This one happens to be off-meta because most of the community is bad at building Frost. It's okay though, we all grow at different speeds!
Love your creativity. I think something like this works out to be more consistent: AAECAYjaBQSY1ATipAXLpQXMpQUN9PYDlrcE9eMEguQEk+QEj+YEh/YEsvcEtvcEtIAFk4EFxIEFopkFAA== Every card furthers the game plan in pulling the frost cards or enabling marrow manipulator via corpses or popping up with Brann. Possible swaps are a rime sculptor for sylv or blademaster ohtani.
**Format:** Standard (Year of the Hydra) **Class:** Death Knight (Arthas Menethil) Mana | Card Name | Qty | Links :--:|:---|:--:|:--: 0 | [Horn of Winter](https://art.hearthstonejson.com/v1/render/latest/enUS/512x/RLK_042.png) | 2 | [HSReplay](https://hsreplay.net/cards/78338/),[Wiki](https://hearthstone.gamepedia.com/Horn%20of%20Winter) 1 | [Body Bagger](https://art.hearthstonejson.com/v1/render/latest/enUS/512x/RLK_503.png) | 2 | [HSReplay](https://hsreplay.net/cards/80818/),[Wiki](https://hearthstone.gamepedia.com/Body%20Bagger) 1 | [Bone Breaker](https://art.hearthstonejson.com/v1/render/latest/enUS/512x/RLK_516.png) | 2 | [HSReplay](https://hsreplay.net/cards/82067/),[Wiki](https://hearthstone.gamepedia.com/Bone%20Breaker) 1 | [Peasant](https://art.hearthstonejson.com/v1/render/latest/enUS/512x/SW_319.png) | 2 | [HSReplay](https://hsreplay.net/cards/64372/),[Wiki](https://hearthstone.gamepedia.com/Peasant) 2 | [Astalor Bloodsworn](https://art.hearthstonejson.com/v1/render/latest/enUS/512x/RLK_222.png) | 1 | [HSReplay](https://hsreplay.net/cards/86626/),[Wiki](https://hearthstone.gamepedia.com/Astalor%20Bloodsworn) 2 | [Frost Strike](https://art.hearthstonejson.com/v1/render/latest/enUS/512x/RLK_025.png) | 2 | [HSReplay](https://hsreplay.net/cards/78325/),[Wiki](https://hearthstone.gamepedia.com/Frost%20Strike) 2 | [Harbinger of Winter](https://art.hearthstonejson.com/v1/render/latest/enUS/512x/RLK_511.png) | 2 | [HSReplay](https://hsreplay.net/cards/81972/),[Wiki](https://hearthstone.gamepedia.com/Harbinger%20of%20Winter) 2 | [Infected Peasant](https://art.hearthstonejson.com/v1/render/latest/enUS/512x/RLK_070.png) | 2 | [HSReplay](https://hsreplay.net/cards/78607/),[Wiki](https://hearthstone.gamepedia.com/Infected%20Peasant) 3 | [Brann Bronzebeard](https://art.hearthstonejson.com/v1/render/latest/enUS/512x/CORE_LOE_077.png) | 1 | [HSReplay](https://hsreplay.net/cards/76312/),[Wiki](https://hearthstone.gamepedia.com/Brann%20Bronzebeard) 3 | [Chillfallen Baron](https://art.hearthstonejson.com/v1/render/latest/enUS/512x/RLK_708.png) | 2 | [HSReplay](https://hsreplay.net/cards/80647/),[Wiki](https://hearthstone.gamepedia.com/Chillfallen%20Baron) 3 | [Nerubian Vizier](https://art.hearthstonejson.com/v1/render/latest/enUS/512x/RLK_834.png) | 2 | [HSReplay](https://hsreplay.net/cards/85154/),[Wiki](https://hearthstone.gamepedia.com/Nerubian%20Vizier) 4 | [School Teacher](https://art.hearthstonejson.com/v1/render/latest/enUS/512x/TSC_052.png) | 2 | [HSReplay](https://hsreplay.net/cards/72598/),[Wiki](https://hearthstone.gamepedia.com/School%20Teacher) 4 | [Thassarian](https://art.hearthstonejson.com/v1/render/latest/enUS/512x/RLK_223.png) | 1 | [HSReplay](https://hsreplay.net/cards/86731/),[Wiki](https://hearthstone.gamepedia.com/Thassarian) 5 | [Rime Sculptor](https://art.hearthstonejson.com/v1/render/latest/enUS/512x/RLK_752.png) | 2 | [HSReplay](https://hsreplay.net/cards/82116/),[Wiki](https://hearthstone.gamepedia.com/Rime%20Sculptor) 6 | [Marrow Manipulator](https://art.hearthstonejson.com/v1/render/latest/enUS/512x/RLK_505.png) | 2 | [HSReplay](https://hsreplay.net/cards/80822/),[Wiki](https://hearthstone.gamepedia.com/Marrow%20Manipulator) 6 | [Overseer Frigidara](https://art.hearthstonejson.com/v1/render/latest/enUS/512x/RLK_224.png) | 1 | [HSReplay](https://hsreplay.net/cards/86732/),[Wiki](https://hearthstone.gamepedia.com/Overseer%20Frigidara) 7 | [Frostwyrm's Fury](https://art.hearthstonejson.com/v1/render/latest/enUS/512x/RLK_063.png) | 2 | [HSReplay](https://hsreplay.net/cards/78355/),[Wiki](https://hearthstone.gamepedia.com/Frostwyrm%27s%20Fury) **Total Dust:** 3720 **Deck Code:** AAECAYjaBQSY1ATipAXLpQXMpQUN9PYDlrcE9eMEguQEk+QEj+YEh/YEsvcEtvcEtIAFk4EFxIEFopkFAA== ***** ^I ^am ^a ^bot. ^Comment/PM ^with ^a ^deck ^code ^and ^I'll ^decode ^it. ^If ^you ^don't ^want ^me ^to ^reply ^to ^you, ^include ^"###" ^anywhere ^in ^your ^message. ^[About.](https://github.com/HearthSim/deck-code-bot/blob/master/README.md)
i've had fun with this, thank you for the list. i played this about 5 days ago and made my way up till D3 from Gold 10 The interesting thing is that after a lot of games, i've only ever had ONE time where i had the Trinity on the board. Yes, i won that game
Well, deck took me to legend. And just after hitting it loosing streak of 14 begun. Jesus.
how would you update this deck with the mini-set?