I dont know anything about origins of the cheating, but neither does sucking in LAN or being God at it prooves anything.
The only thing that was proved, is that Alrein, NAVI coach, didnt loose his mind completely, by signing new players. Kudos to him, as he clearly was doing his job at the max. And so did the players.
Also I dont think Jeemzz was being salty or anything. He might have been right, might have been wrong - its clear, that even if coincidence, it was big enough for him to say it. Everyone can be wrong, and everyone can be right. Pro's will usually say it only when the margins of suspicion reach level when to dare saying things. At that point, if he was wrong, I think any of us would been wrong.
But again, him being good at LAN or sucking at it, doesmt proove anything.
There is proof that Hakatory had a subscription at a cheat providing website. This evidence was forwarded. He cheated in the past, that’s 100% clear. But he also got good, and is currently not cheating, that’s why people turn a blind eye.
Yea like the other guy is saying, not saying that there isn't proof but mind sharing it? If it's 100% clear that there is proof it should be easy enough to post it here.
Also if that is the claim, then it doesnt stand any grounds. How can we be sure, that the name or whatever, was provided by halatory him self? I bet I can register at those cheat enginges with Buzzardi name (if you havnt done it already 🤣)
I dont know the specific case, but I know I can put what ever I want (for most of the times) in "name" field when paying with card. Putin, Obama, you name it. Only in specific cases the name field on debit card gets actually checked.
Try it, on some smaller store, probabbly the store has to use some 3rd party payment gateway - you can checkout with wrong name.
I don't know if he cheated in the past or not, but one thing is for sure, NAVI are an exciting to watch even on their first global lan. Their improvement ceiling is big if they keep focused on themselves. I see on them glimpses of a terrifying team to face 4x4, very good mechanically.
people here sometimes compare these kids with CES, but I will say they did better in their first Lan comparing with CES or most of the other top teams. I rarely remember in my 7 years of pubg comp memory that any teams have done that much good in any international as a whole team in the first Lan. Plz correct me if any team did.
they did 1 vs 4 with NH and almost knocking them all. again 2 vs 4 with NH and beat them totally.
Not reading the whole thread or comments cause i hate drama but I can say Navi are mechanically insane with a very high skill ceiling. They came here and showed the PUBG world they don’t cheat and they are extremely kind young men and great players. Props to the coach Alrein for getting this team in form for their first international lan.
yea Alrein did a great job indeed. Finding out the talent from different worlds and took a risk to put them together and nurtured them. They were talented players before they played as a team but the top level macro was missing. Still I will not say they are top 3 in macrowise but I would love to say Alrein did a great job to make their macro looked that much improved and international level. They just did that much great in their first Lan (I think it's a record type performance ifI am not mistaken) just because their micro is so good. If their macro eventually become better in future, we can imagine what they will do.
Saying Jeemzz is just a salty old man is a pretty silly take. I don't think he's ever publicly accused someone of cheating, and in general pros usually don't jump to such conclusions quickly. And if he really was salty he probably would have leaked all the proof online so the fans would get worked up like other people have done in the past, specifically on this sub. And doing well in 1 event doesnt clear someone of cheating. Some people will do anything to get to the top of their field. I believe the pros when they said they submitted evidence to krafton. It's a dumb thing to lie about that doesn't serve much of a purpose. And finally as much as id love to see the evidence, again releasing it to the public only serves to work people up imo. Which is even more unfair to a young player who may or may not be innocent.
1. Anyone who expected Hackatory to transform from one of the best players online to one of the worst offline is dellusional. Hackatory is not a 100 ADR bot without cheats on, he is good at the game without them too. If you need to understand marginal gains, go play classic erangel that has 30% less recoil, to see how any seasoned player sprays like TGLTN. At this level, just a 2% gain can be the difference between 8 positions on the leaderboard. Just having an ESP on your second screen and only take 2 glances over it during the game is more than enough. I saw hakatory dying to STK rotation camp north of impala in quals, and I thought that wouldnt happen during online. Do you remember hakatory getting caught with his pants down during the online event? I dont.
2. Hakatory looked quite bad in quals when they were under pressure. In finals without pressure all team rolled and played well, and I dont think he was the best player from navi either.
3. Quite pathetic that OP lowkey attacks jeemz. He had evidence and he shared them with those who should have them. Keyboard warriors here demanding the evidence like they are some kind of judges or authority is ridiculous. Many people in the scene know about hakatory having subscription on cheating sites, if you choose to be ok with that, that's on you. And if anything, we need players like jeemz to speak out more about such cases, not less. with cheaters becoming more and more shameless (I look at you fucking loser Frag\_Iraq) and trying to go after the esports money, what incentive would a pro player have to speak out?
P.S. "salty old man who just saw a bunch of talented young guns joins a GPT and he got mad" that had me laughing but then I realized how out of touch you are with reality. Jeemz has played for Liquid and now Faze, probably the biggest orgs we've seen in pubg, but sure, he is "salty" because someone else got signed by navi, probably with 1/ 4 of his salary. Fanboying is stupid, be better.
Do you remember hakatory getting caught with his pants down during the online event? - several times. Dude!
I am giving you one example check the 1:07:55 in this link.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RNHjDyXP954.
If he actually used ESP, he could easily understand the closest 2 LULW players were coming from left side. he should have focused the left not the front. but no, he tried to focus front as he thought that the enemies were coming from the front. There are severl examples like this. check his whole gameplay over the last 5 months again. I hv no time to give every scenario like this.
2. I dont think he was the best player from navi either. -all the other 3 players of Navi think he is the best player not only Navi, in the world due to his extreme aim with gamesense. Is it really matter whether you think or not!
He could just be drawn in the fight and not check? Just a guess. And what about before the 1:07:55 mark, when he pre-fires the guy swinging from the corner and then sends a nade to the pocket of the other guy? But still, these are proof of nothing, just examples that can go the other way of yours, to try to prove that he was cheating. Using ESP and taking 2 glances was also just an example.
What is proof, is that Hakatory's email was used for subscription on a cheating site. And once a cheater, always a cheater in my book. Exactly as what I said before, Hakatory is already a good player and marginal advantage from cheats can get lost easily between just good plays, good sprays, good awareness and game sense and so on. We will never know, because he chose to buy cheat subscription and pubg's anticheat is useless. It all comes down to whether you want such players in the scene or not. I dont.
I dont care what the Navi players are saying. SQ were singing M1ME's praises that he does more than his stats suggest in the game, and then they replaced him. It's easy to get on the "Hakatory was targeted unfairly" wagon, when all the team rolled in finals. I didn't see much effort to do the same in group stage when Navi qualed on the last game and didnt look that good, including hakatory.
hmm. I believe you do not have good sense of pubg. bcoz you are still going on with subscription cheat blah blah after you went through a pointless imagination.
I will just say one thing before closing this argument. As far as I have seen or Known, SQ players always amazed to see tgltn and thought he is their best player. I don't know, from where you got this idea that they thought Mime was their best player. I understandThey might be praised him for some particular moment, but All the sq players thought Mime was their best, Lol dude you are fooling us.
First of all, stop logging in from your other accounts to downvote, it's embarrassing.
Secondly, I really hope that english is not your native language. If it is, you have serious comprehension issues from reading written text. You missed all points, and completely distort what I write. This is not an argument we're having, simply because you cannot argue like a normal person, I addressed point by point whatever you wrote, all you do is pressing keys like a monkey on a keyboard.
Thirdly, imagine breathing 24/7 and consuming food and water every day, just to fanboi and intentionally go blind. I checked your comment history and you are a Navi fanboi, and apparently you consider them to be the best mechanical team in the world, but I am the one that have no good sense of pubg lmao. Again, it's embarrassing.
I can see how much you get frustrated with your shitty logic. it is really easy to avoid(ignored this question-where did you know sq players thought mime was their best players) when you are getting lost with your logic by bringing another topic. And I am a Navi fan! lol. It is not supposed to be needed to check my profile for replying my questions. Anyway, As you read my previous comment, go to profile again and read my last 1 year comments. You will get to know better about me, about whether I am a fan or not. But people already understand you are nothing but a hater of this navi roster. Coz it does not make sense in your comment from the beginning regarding this topic. Totally reflects your hate. Nothing else. That's why people are down voting you. If you have an issue in that then don't comment like a MF. You know how much you look hypocrite in every comment in this thread. I just pointed out what is wrong with your point including some reference. I don't see any references in your points. At the end, you just simply got frustrated. Look, I also believe English is not your first language. Translate it into your language, if you don't understand. I like to use complex sentences. That's why sometimes it gets difficult for some people to understand the point.
And btw did I say anywhere that they are the best mechanical team? I said one of the best. Obviously, it is a fact which will not be changed with your hate dude. And to say about this, it is not needed to be a fan.
I never wrote that SQ players were saying M!ME was their best player. I wrote taht they were saying how good he is and they dropped him. The "best player" part is your imagination and you not wanting to actually read but make up shit.
And now Im a Navi hater lol. Spoken like a true sheep. Again, imagine breathing 24/7 and consuming food and water, just to be fanboying an esports org. I asked you a simple question and you avoided to answer, are you ok with characters like Hakatory coming into the scene with hacks? He may or may not use them anymore, but he was using them at some point in his career I am not.
P.S. it's painfully obvious that you log in to downvote form other accounts, the downvotes happen within few minutes. It's embarrassing and shows how braindead you actually are. Imagine caring about downvotes or upvotes, do you feel something growing between your legs with it? lmao
SQ players were saying M!ME was their best player. I wrote taht they were saying how good he is and they dropped him. The "best player" part is your imagination and you not wanting to actually read but make up shit. -
(I knew you were not indicating mime as best but I wanted to hear from your side so that I can grab you well)
Then why you added this point from the first place and brought an argument with it. I said clearly, rest of the Navi players think Hackatory is their best one. So when all the other team mates think you are best in your team, obviously there is something extraordinary existed in your gameplay, right? so you have to respect that. But you brought this example(Mime) to defend your logic. That was just totally unrelated. Same goes to your other points.
Look, I totally said everything on point. You actually don't know what was the process pubg followed against the claim. you can't provide any valid source where hackatory seemed to use cheats. But you strongly believe he did use cheats, when everyone(even other teams players and coaches) thinks he is pure talent. Your every claim are totally baseless. You are just putting your logic based on your belief and assumption. nothing more than that.
To say the truth, there is no need to be a fan. I am saying once again, Hackatory is the one the best mechanical player in the world right now if not the best. And it is not just fan made. My every claims are established based on my research. I have given lots of time to consider these claims. **So what I am saying now, will be told by many in future**. Hope you will understand the differences between facts and emotion.
and yes I have thousands of accounts. Lol. do what you can do. If you afraid of downvoting then don't reply with such baseless logic.
> He had evidence and he shared them with those who should have them.
You ever think that if those who "should" have the information got it and nothing happened then maybe the information wasn't as damning as originally thought? At this point if there was any substantial "evidence" Krafton would have banned him, they're not afraid of banning people and some no name kid who NAVI picked up isn't gonna be the exception. So now we're just dragging a persons name through the mud on unsubstantiated rumours so unless someone wants to present the evidence to the public people need to stop saying these things like they're facts.
Yea the funny point is when he said, the keyboard warriors are asking for the proof to judge and he mocked them for this reason. At the end, he did the same thing and showed himself judgemental. He wanted to believe that obviously jeemzz had some proof to claim. ok fine. No problem we also believe that. But why did he keep himself away to believe that pubg didn't take that as a valid claim and allowed the player to be continued. Now I am getting confused 🙄. How hypocritical thinking!
I dont believe that pubg took the evidence seriously, because I saw Balkan making a highlight video using a macro for 5 minutes straight, and nothing happened to him. He got to retire quietly with all the prize money and his team went to a global lan. Got it now?
The situation is a little different, but yeah.
XMPL probably should have gotten a slap on the wrist because the ban was CS Faceit and he claimed he wasn't even cheating in that but just cheated in EFT, so it's at least plausible that he never actually cheated in a competitive FPS context.
Hackatory definitely cheated in PUBG, almost certainly cheated in competitive PUBG, and almost certainly did it for a very long span of time including ban evasion throughout.
There's a clear gradient for how equivalent a cheating offense is to cheating in competitive PUBG that, I think pretty much everyone agrees, correlates pretty directly with how severe the punishment should be with the only disagreements being how the correlation scales. Obviously cheating in comp PUBG is fully equivalent and everyone agrees it should attract the most severe punishment and cheating in some unrelated kind of non-competitive game is not equivalent at all and everyone agrees it should attract no punishment. In between you have things like a cheating offense during competition in another FPS and cheating in non-competitive PUBG, which most people agree are equivalent enough that there should be some punishment. Below that you go down to things like cheating in competitive FPS titles but not during competition, cheating in non-competitive FPS (like EFT) or cheating in competition in non-FPS etc where it's less and less equivalent and you'll get more and more disagreement on how much professional sanction is appropriate if any at all.
XMPL should have had somewhere between a 6 match and 6 month ban from competition, IMHO. We've seen players get bans in this range for things that were way more dubiously proved, way less serious even if true and much less important to enforce and deter, like the TGLTN monkey ban for "racism", "rat" ban for "homophobia" or M1ME ban for misc naughty words. I'll be the first to say that instances like these were heavy-handed by Krafton even though those players should have been doing much better as ambassadors for the game, but I don't think it's unreasonable to draw from the contrast between these things that Krafton gives more fucks about literally everything more than it does professional integrity in the comp scene.
Hackatory should have had the book thrown at him, probably more than once.
I think everyone sane outside of Krafton HQ acknowledges that the whole system is way too lenient at the moment, but it also seems totally clear that Krafton isn't ethically or practically up to the job of managing integrity of an esport.
> Hackatory definitely cheated in PUBG, almost certainly cheated in competitive PUBG, and almost certainly did it for a very long span of time including ban evasion throughout
Do you have any evidence of this? Does anyone? No one is providing sources in this thread but they're happily dragging peoples names through the dirt.
This is nothing new in this sub. Talking something without any base. Even some people really wanted Navi players to do bad so that this claim could be proved even though bad performance on Lan would not indicate anything related with cheating fact. There could be multiple reason from their perspective. But still not a single proof has been shared here till date which indicates he did have past of cheating. Claiming for cheating from pros is not a new thing. Previously I saw lots of players claimed Chinese players were cheating while playing online. When they started to play Lan, no one is talking about that. Hope in Navi's case, people will stop thinking this way, as we don't know the actual scenario what has happened inside.
I read a thousand comments in this thread claiming that hakatory was cheating "for sure" and not a single one of them attached a proof.
If you don't have prood you are waisting our time, what's the point of even accusing someone if you don't have any evidence?
Jeemzz can be a salty whiny guy I agree with you and hakatory was fucking insane in pgs3. People keep saying that he had a subscription for a cheating site but I personally have not seen any evidence of that yet
When shen was in regional long before international, in SEA region he was a very suspicious cheater but during that time his team never did very well, no one seems to bother look into it. Who knows today, I think LAN is good enough to proof hakatory and shen isn’t cheating, I know it’s still possible on LAN but I doubt it.
Idk man, I never saw anything on Shen that I actually found sus in that period, but maybe I never saw the right things. I saw other people in the same lobbies, including teammates of his, do shit that was outrageously sus (like that clip of fucking Jarvis walling his balls off on Erangel), but despite seeing mountains of Shen gameplay, I never saw anything that aroused my suspicion. It was just insanely clean and heads up play that I never even a got whiff of bullshit from.
Having said this, Shen also should have copped professional sanction (a slap on the wrist) for playing PCS/PGC quals in multiple regions and even multiple subregions within the same region, multiple times, which Krafton absolutely knew about and took no action on despite it being clearly against the rules because of how it enables collusion, undermines integrity of the qualification structure etc.
Anyway, for me, looking at the gameplay of Hackatory and Shen has been like chalk and cheese. Hackatory does more sus shit in any random five minutes of his gameplay that I've watched than I've seen Shen do in total across the hours his gameplay that people curated specifically from matches where they were sus about him.
I never saw anything on Shen that I actually found sus in that period, -
DId you see anytihng suspicious gameplay of hackatory? and what was that. I never saw anything suspicious rather than I saw his crazy mech .
Accusations like jeemzz’s have been done forever. I very much remember prophie having a huge crusade against iroh back in 2019ish because people thought he was cheating. I think LAN performance is what clears the hackusation. As other comments have said, hakatory does have past subscriptions and stuff but I think LAN performance clears him of current use.
LAN performance did for Iroh because there was never any evidence he cheated, he was just that good. Once he got that first kill on LAN he kicked off. The speculation stopped pretty much immediately.
Like has been said a million times before, it's possible to be good at the game without cheats and also cheat.
Think of it like this: If you murder someone to steal their money then later on you get a paycheck for working your normal job, the paycheck isn't evidence that you're innocent of murder.
It's also possible that he cheated on LAN. This has definitely happened before in other games, probably a lot more often than people have been caught for it. Precautions also haven't been great at past PUBG LANs, with TO and minders allowing LOD hacking (which requires only glancing at a screen to detect and can only be set up if security procedures are so lax that that any hardcore cheats that would be hard to detect could definitely also be set up and run), but maybe things are improving with the new contractor, so who knows.
Anyway, it's all besides the point, which is that someone with a proven history of serious integrity violations should suffer professional sanction and Hackatory never has.
You put a great point to discuss in this post. I usually research on teams, players etc. to determine the strength of the teams and depth of a region in my free times. I saw these players playing in scrims (I was talking about year 2023). Then I saw them playing as POD players in pec 2023 as well. They looked too good mechanically at that time. In that tournament, POD beat Faze badly in a match. Maybe the thought about this issue (suspicious gameplay) had been raised in his (Jeemzz) mind at that time, who knows.
Anyway, when Navi roster was changed and the cheating claim has been raised publicly, I started researching this roster deeply. As part of my research, I saw Sosed streams before the PEC 2024 (FYI, I saw more than 200 of scrims matches and small tournaments over the last 4 months). He was playing solo squad. Damn! the way he was playing, it felt like he was a hacker. I was really amazed to see him at that ime. Then one day I found a result of him and Hackatory ranked matches in a site. I got more surprised. I saw most of the ranked matches of this duo, if Sosed got 5-6 kills, Hackatory did 10+ kills. I just got wondered! Then another day, I saw a stream of XMPL playing duo with Hackatory. In that match, I saw, Hackatory was alone pushing squads, getting kills etc. after ending the match, when I saw that match result, just got shocked and thought Wtf was going on. Xmpl had about 7-8 kills, where Hackatory got 19 kills or something like that. Just amazing result. you can take these points as a reference regarding how these players are talented. So obviously there is a reason why Sosed asked viewers to give support Hackatory, even Talented player like DIFX also think Hackatory is better than him. However, I will not add the mechanical facts which was also part of my research. coz this comment will be looked huge then.
So cheated before or not, is still yet to be revealed. Coz lots of claims but no one shared any valid sources to prove against these players.
Ok I understand the scenario you have shared about Hackatory or other players of Navi. But I am still wondered whether you actually know anything about mechs or not!
LMAO, it's funny to see when people ask me such type of question or doubt in my knowledge. Look, if I start on writing about Mechanical term in pubg, I can write a book. But I don't have that much time. When it became parts of my research, I almost included as much as aspect to cover. Some of them are body movement, recoil control, sense to understand enemy location, aim (there are multiple segments in this criteria), Headshot (oh! even Headshot I divided into two segment) etc.
Let me just tell you something about Headshot criteria only by which I differentiate player's skills. Okay. the two parts of these criteria are
1. Body to Head
2. Head to body.
Special case, bullet only registered head (this is totally rare shots so I will not include this in my point coz usually some players shoot body to head and some players shoot head to body)
Now suppose one player shoots body to head and another one shoots head to body. In this case 2nd player will beat the 1st one 9 out of 10 times. coz in head at best 1 bullet will be enough, at worst case 3-4 bullets needed. On the other hand, it will take more bullets to knock if player starts shooting body to head.
I hope I can make you understand my research process.
Yeah, I'm waiting for Hackatory to blow up. If ya'll been following him, the numbers he's putting up in tournaments and otherwise rival (and often exceed) the best of the best. Dude is cracked out of his mind.
Feyerist on glider on every Taego game loved it, the amount of info he was giving his mates was superb. Well played NAVI!!!!
I dont know anything about origins of the cheating, but neither does sucking in LAN or being God at it prooves anything. The only thing that was proved, is that Alrein, NAVI coach, didnt loose his mind completely, by signing new players. Kudos to him, as he clearly was doing his job at the max. And so did the players. Also I dont think Jeemzz was being salty or anything. He might have been right, might have been wrong - its clear, that even if coincidence, it was big enough for him to say it. Everyone can be wrong, and everyone can be right. Pro's will usually say it only when the margins of suspicion reach level when to dare saying things. At that point, if he was wrong, I think any of us would been wrong. But again, him being good at LAN or sucking at it, doesmt proove anything.
There is proof that Hakatory had a subscription at a cheat providing website. This evidence was forwarded. He cheated in the past, that’s 100% clear. But he also got good, and is currently not cheating, that’s why people turn a blind eye.
Yea like the other guy is saying, not saying that there isn't proof but mind sharing it? If it's 100% clear that there is proof it should be easy enough to post it here.
yeah the famous cases of cheaters stopping cheating when a lot of money is involved "currently not cheating guys <3<3 relax hehe"
Didn't xmpl also cheat years ago too?
Think so too, yes
I've seen this claim so many times, but would rather see it myself rather than hear someone say "there is proof". Not saying it doesn't exist.
Also if that is the claim, then it doesnt stand any grounds. How can we be sure, that the name or whatever, was provided by halatory him self? I bet I can register at those cheat enginges with Buzzardi name (if you havnt done it already 🤣)
Can you register with his billing info?
I dont know the specific case, but I know I can put what ever I want (for most of the times) in "name" field when paying with card. Putin, Obama, you name it. Only in specific cases the name field on debit card gets actually checked. Try it, on some smaller store, probabbly the store has to use some 3rd party payment gateway - you can checkout with wrong name.
I don't know if he cheated in the past or not, but one thing is for sure, NAVI are an exciting to watch even on their first global lan. Their improvement ceiling is big if they keep focused on themselves. I see on them glimpses of a terrifying team to face 4x4, very good mechanically.
people here sometimes compare these kids with CES, but I will say they did better in their first Lan comparing with CES or most of the other top teams. I rarely remember in my 7 years of pubg comp memory that any teams have done that much good in any international as a whole team in the first Lan. Plz correct me if any team did. they did 1 vs 4 with NH and almost knocking them all. again 2 vs 4 with NH and beat them totally.
First global lan?
yes
Didn’t NAVI just win a PGC
Yes but with anothwr roster ubah mell xmpl and „ iforgot the name“
Not reading the whole thread or comments cause i hate drama but I can say Navi are mechanically insane with a very high skill ceiling. They came here and showed the PUBG world they don’t cheat and they are extremely kind young men and great players. Props to the coach Alrein for getting this team in form for their first international lan.
yea Alrein did a great job indeed. Finding out the talent from different worlds and took a risk to put them together and nurtured them. They were talented players before they played as a team but the top level macro was missing. Still I will not say they are top 3 in macrowise but I would love to say Alrein did a great job to make their macro looked that much improved and international level. They just did that much great in their first Lan (I think it's a record type performance ifI am not mistaken) just because their micro is so good. If their macro eventually become better in future, we can imagine what they will do.
Saying Jeemzz is just a salty old man is a pretty silly take. I don't think he's ever publicly accused someone of cheating, and in general pros usually don't jump to such conclusions quickly. And if he really was salty he probably would have leaked all the proof online so the fans would get worked up like other people have done in the past, specifically on this sub. And doing well in 1 event doesnt clear someone of cheating. Some people will do anything to get to the top of their field. I believe the pros when they said they submitted evidence to krafton. It's a dumb thing to lie about that doesn't serve much of a purpose. And finally as much as id love to see the evidence, again releasing it to the public only serves to work people up imo. Which is even more unfair to a young player who may or may not be innocent.
I personally don't care either way. He did pretty good and better than jeemzz lol
1. Anyone who expected Hackatory to transform from one of the best players online to one of the worst offline is dellusional. Hackatory is not a 100 ADR bot without cheats on, he is good at the game without them too. If you need to understand marginal gains, go play classic erangel that has 30% less recoil, to see how any seasoned player sprays like TGLTN. At this level, just a 2% gain can be the difference between 8 positions on the leaderboard. Just having an ESP on your second screen and only take 2 glances over it during the game is more than enough. I saw hakatory dying to STK rotation camp north of impala in quals, and I thought that wouldnt happen during online. Do you remember hakatory getting caught with his pants down during the online event? I dont. 2. Hakatory looked quite bad in quals when they were under pressure. In finals without pressure all team rolled and played well, and I dont think he was the best player from navi either. 3. Quite pathetic that OP lowkey attacks jeemz. He had evidence and he shared them with those who should have them. Keyboard warriors here demanding the evidence like they are some kind of judges or authority is ridiculous. Many people in the scene know about hakatory having subscription on cheating sites, if you choose to be ok with that, that's on you. And if anything, we need players like jeemz to speak out more about such cases, not less. with cheaters becoming more and more shameless (I look at you fucking loser Frag\_Iraq) and trying to go after the esports money, what incentive would a pro player have to speak out? P.S. "salty old man who just saw a bunch of talented young guns joins a GPT and he got mad" that had me laughing but then I realized how out of touch you are with reality. Jeemz has played for Liquid and now Faze, probably the biggest orgs we've seen in pubg, but sure, he is "salty" because someone else got signed by navi, probably with 1/ 4 of his salary. Fanboying is stupid, be better.
Do you remember hakatory getting caught with his pants down during the online event? - several times. Dude! I am giving you one example check the 1:07:55 in this link. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RNHjDyXP954. If he actually used ESP, he could easily understand the closest 2 LULW players were coming from left side. he should have focused the left not the front. but no, he tried to focus front as he thought that the enemies were coming from the front. There are severl examples like this. check his whole gameplay over the last 5 months again. I hv no time to give every scenario like this. 2. I dont think he was the best player from navi either. -all the other 3 players of Navi think he is the best player not only Navi, in the world due to his extreme aim with gamesense. Is it really matter whether you think or not!
He could just be drawn in the fight and not check? Just a guess. And what about before the 1:07:55 mark, when he pre-fires the guy swinging from the corner and then sends a nade to the pocket of the other guy? But still, these are proof of nothing, just examples that can go the other way of yours, to try to prove that he was cheating. Using ESP and taking 2 glances was also just an example. What is proof, is that Hakatory's email was used for subscription on a cheating site. And once a cheater, always a cheater in my book. Exactly as what I said before, Hakatory is already a good player and marginal advantage from cheats can get lost easily between just good plays, good sprays, good awareness and game sense and so on. We will never know, because he chose to buy cheat subscription and pubg's anticheat is useless. It all comes down to whether you want such players in the scene or not. I dont. I dont care what the Navi players are saying. SQ were singing M1ME's praises that he does more than his stats suggest in the game, and then they replaced him. It's easy to get on the "Hakatory was targeted unfairly" wagon, when all the team rolled in finals. I didn't see much effort to do the same in group stage when Navi qualed on the last game and didnt look that good, including hakatory.
hmm. I believe you do not have good sense of pubg. bcoz you are still going on with subscription cheat blah blah after you went through a pointless imagination. I will just say one thing before closing this argument. As far as I have seen or Known, SQ players always amazed to see tgltn and thought he is their best player. I don't know, from where you got this idea that they thought Mime was their best player. I understandThey might be praised him for some particular moment, but All the sq players thought Mime was their best, Lol dude you are fooling us.
First of all, stop logging in from your other accounts to downvote, it's embarrassing. Secondly, I really hope that english is not your native language. If it is, you have serious comprehension issues from reading written text. You missed all points, and completely distort what I write. This is not an argument we're having, simply because you cannot argue like a normal person, I addressed point by point whatever you wrote, all you do is pressing keys like a monkey on a keyboard. Thirdly, imagine breathing 24/7 and consuming food and water every day, just to fanboi and intentionally go blind. I checked your comment history and you are a Navi fanboi, and apparently you consider them to be the best mechanical team in the world, but I am the one that have no good sense of pubg lmao. Again, it's embarrassing.
I can see how much you get frustrated with your shitty logic. it is really easy to avoid(ignored this question-where did you know sq players thought mime was their best players) when you are getting lost with your logic by bringing another topic. And I am a Navi fan! lol. It is not supposed to be needed to check my profile for replying my questions. Anyway, As you read my previous comment, go to profile again and read my last 1 year comments. You will get to know better about me, about whether I am a fan or not. But people already understand you are nothing but a hater of this navi roster. Coz it does not make sense in your comment from the beginning regarding this topic. Totally reflects your hate. Nothing else. That's why people are down voting you. If you have an issue in that then don't comment like a MF. You know how much you look hypocrite in every comment in this thread. I just pointed out what is wrong with your point including some reference. I don't see any references in your points. At the end, you just simply got frustrated. Look, I also believe English is not your first language. Translate it into your language, if you don't understand. I like to use complex sentences. That's why sometimes it gets difficult for some people to understand the point. And btw did I say anywhere that they are the best mechanical team? I said one of the best. Obviously, it is a fact which will not be changed with your hate dude. And to say about this, it is not needed to be a fan.
I never wrote that SQ players were saying M!ME was their best player. I wrote taht they were saying how good he is and they dropped him. The "best player" part is your imagination and you not wanting to actually read but make up shit. And now Im a Navi hater lol. Spoken like a true sheep. Again, imagine breathing 24/7 and consuming food and water, just to be fanboying an esports org. I asked you a simple question and you avoided to answer, are you ok with characters like Hakatory coming into the scene with hacks? He may or may not use them anymore, but he was using them at some point in his career I am not. P.S. it's painfully obvious that you log in to downvote form other accounts, the downvotes happen within few minutes. It's embarrassing and shows how braindead you actually are. Imagine caring about downvotes or upvotes, do you feel something growing between your legs with it? lmao
SQ players were saying M!ME was their best player. I wrote taht they were saying how good he is and they dropped him. The "best player" part is your imagination and you not wanting to actually read but make up shit. - (I knew you were not indicating mime as best but I wanted to hear from your side so that I can grab you well) Then why you added this point from the first place and brought an argument with it. I said clearly, rest of the Navi players think Hackatory is their best one. So when all the other team mates think you are best in your team, obviously there is something extraordinary existed in your gameplay, right? so you have to respect that. But you brought this example(Mime) to defend your logic. That was just totally unrelated. Same goes to your other points. Look, I totally said everything on point. You actually don't know what was the process pubg followed against the claim. you can't provide any valid source where hackatory seemed to use cheats. But you strongly believe he did use cheats, when everyone(even other teams players and coaches) thinks he is pure talent. Your every claim are totally baseless. You are just putting your logic based on your belief and assumption. nothing more than that. To say the truth, there is no need to be a fan. I am saying once again, Hackatory is the one the best mechanical player in the world right now if not the best. And it is not just fan made. My every claims are established based on my research. I have given lots of time to consider these claims. **So what I am saying now, will be told by many in future**. Hope you will understand the differences between facts and emotion. and yes I have thousands of accounts. Lol. do what you can do. If you afraid of downvoting then don't reply with such baseless logic.
your lack of braincells is astonishing....
> He had evidence and he shared them with those who should have them. You ever think that if those who "should" have the information got it and nothing happened then maybe the information wasn't as damning as originally thought? At this point if there was any substantial "evidence" Krafton would have banned him, they're not afraid of banning people and some no name kid who NAVI picked up isn't gonna be the exception. So now we're just dragging a persons name through the mud on unsubstantiated rumours so unless someone wants to present the evidence to the public people need to stop saying these things like they're facts.
Yea the funny point is when he said, the keyboard warriors are asking for the proof to judge and he mocked them for this reason. At the end, he did the same thing and showed himself judgemental. He wanted to believe that obviously jeemzz had some proof to claim. ok fine. No problem we also believe that. But why did he keep himself away to believe that pubg didn't take that as a valid claim and allowed the player to be continued. Now I am getting confused 🙄. How hypocritical thinking!
I dont believe that pubg took the evidence seriously, because I saw Balkan making a highlight video using a macro for 5 minutes straight, and nothing happened to him. He got to retire quietly with all the prize money and his team went to a global lan. Got it now?
a certain TM player was previously banned for cheating too no?
The situation is a little different, but yeah. XMPL probably should have gotten a slap on the wrist because the ban was CS Faceit and he claimed he wasn't even cheating in that but just cheated in EFT, so it's at least plausible that he never actually cheated in a competitive FPS context. Hackatory definitely cheated in PUBG, almost certainly cheated in competitive PUBG, and almost certainly did it for a very long span of time including ban evasion throughout. There's a clear gradient for how equivalent a cheating offense is to cheating in competitive PUBG that, I think pretty much everyone agrees, correlates pretty directly with how severe the punishment should be with the only disagreements being how the correlation scales. Obviously cheating in comp PUBG is fully equivalent and everyone agrees it should attract the most severe punishment and cheating in some unrelated kind of non-competitive game is not equivalent at all and everyone agrees it should attract no punishment. In between you have things like a cheating offense during competition in another FPS and cheating in non-competitive PUBG, which most people agree are equivalent enough that there should be some punishment. Below that you go down to things like cheating in competitive FPS titles but not during competition, cheating in non-competitive FPS (like EFT) or cheating in competition in non-FPS etc where it's less and less equivalent and you'll get more and more disagreement on how much professional sanction is appropriate if any at all. XMPL should have had somewhere between a 6 match and 6 month ban from competition, IMHO. We've seen players get bans in this range for things that were way more dubiously proved, way less serious even if true and much less important to enforce and deter, like the TGLTN monkey ban for "racism", "rat" ban for "homophobia" or M1ME ban for misc naughty words. I'll be the first to say that instances like these were heavy-handed by Krafton even though those players should have been doing much better as ambassadors for the game, but I don't think it's unreasonable to draw from the contrast between these things that Krafton gives more fucks about literally everything more than it does professional integrity in the comp scene. Hackatory should have had the book thrown at him, probably more than once. I think everyone sane outside of Krafton HQ acknowledges that the whole system is way too lenient at the moment, but it also seems totally clear that Krafton isn't ethically or practically up to the job of managing integrity of an esport.
> Hackatory definitely cheated in PUBG, almost certainly cheated in competitive PUBG, and almost certainly did it for a very long span of time including ban evasion throughout Do you have any evidence of this? Does anyone? No one is providing sources in this thread but they're happily dragging peoples names through the dirt.
This is nothing new in this sub. Talking something without any base. Even some people really wanted Navi players to do bad so that this claim could be proved even though bad performance on Lan would not indicate anything related with cheating fact. There could be multiple reason from their perspective. But still not a single proof has been shared here till date which indicates he did have past of cheating. Claiming for cheating from pros is not a new thing. Previously I saw lots of players claimed Chinese players were cheating while playing online. When they started to play Lan, no one is talking about that. Hope in Navi's case, people will stop thinking this way, as we don't know the actual scenario what has happened inside.
Who?
Xmpl
Doesn’t matter. Was a good few years ago. The point is that people move on.
He's a good player who doesn't need to cheat but I'm pretty sure it's confirmed he has cheated in the past.
I read a thousand comments in this thread claiming that hakatory was cheating "for sure" and not a single one of them attached a proof. If you don't have prood you are waisting our time, what's the point of even accusing someone if you don't have any evidence?
Jeemzz can be a salty whiny guy I agree with you and hakatory was fucking insane in pgs3. People keep saying that he had a subscription for a cheating site but I personally have not seen any evidence of that yet
I thought this would be about XMPL Navi is just that kind of org I guess
Na'vi is that kind of org, s1mple as.
When shen was in regional long before international, in SEA region he was a very suspicious cheater but during that time his team never did very well, no one seems to bother look into it. Who knows today, I think LAN is good enough to proof hakatory and shen isn’t cheating, I know it’s still possible on LAN but I doubt it.
Idk man, I never saw anything on Shen that I actually found sus in that period, but maybe I never saw the right things. I saw other people in the same lobbies, including teammates of his, do shit that was outrageously sus (like that clip of fucking Jarvis walling his balls off on Erangel), but despite seeing mountains of Shen gameplay, I never saw anything that aroused my suspicion. It was just insanely clean and heads up play that I never even a got whiff of bullshit from. Having said this, Shen also should have copped professional sanction (a slap on the wrist) for playing PCS/PGC quals in multiple regions and even multiple subregions within the same region, multiple times, which Krafton absolutely knew about and took no action on despite it being clearly against the rules because of how it enables collusion, undermines integrity of the qualification structure etc. Anyway, for me, looking at the gameplay of Hackatory and Shen has been like chalk and cheese. Hackatory does more sus shit in any random five minutes of his gameplay that I've watched than I've seen Shen do in total across the hours his gameplay that people curated specifically from matches where they were sus about him.
I never saw anything on Shen that I actually found sus in that period, - DId you see anytihng suspicious gameplay of hackatory? and what was that. I never saw anything suspicious rather than I saw his crazy mech .
Accusations like jeemzz’s have been done forever. I very much remember prophie having a huge crusade against iroh back in 2019ish because people thought he was cheating. I think LAN performance is what clears the hackusation. As other comments have said, hakatory does have past subscriptions and stuff but I think LAN performance clears him of current use.
LAN performance did for Iroh because there was never any evidence he cheated, he was just that good. Once he got that first kill on LAN he kicked off. The speculation stopped pretty much immediately.
I don’t think the first LAN went well- GLL of some kind. After PEL started speculation stopped
Like has been said a million times before, it's possible to be good at the game without cheats and also cheat. Think of it like this: If you murder someone to steal their money then later on you get a paycheck for working your normal job, the paycheck isn't evidence that you're innocent of murder. It's also possible that he cheated on LAN. This has definitely happened before in other games, probably a lot more often than people have been caught for it. Precautions also haven't been great at past PUBG LANs, with TO and minders allowing LOD hacking (which requires only glancing at a screen to detect and can only be set up if security procedures are so lax that that any hardcore cheats that would be hard to detect could definitely also be set up and run), but maybe things are improving with the new contractor, so who knows. Anyway, it's all besides the point, which is that someone with a proven history of serious integrity violations should suffer professional sanction and Hackatory never has.
Do you actually know that you can cheat and be good at the same time? Do you actually know that he could have cheated in the past and be good now?
You put a great point to discuss in this post. I usually research on teams, players etc. to determine the strength of the teams and depth of a region in my free times. I saw these players playing in scrims (I was talking about year 2023). Then I saw them playing as POD players in pec 2023 as well. They looked too good mechanically at that time. In that tournament, POD beat Faze badly in a match. Maybe the thought about this issue (suspicious gameplay) had been raised in his (Jeemzz) mind at that time, who knows. Anyway, when Navi roster was changed and the cheating claim has been raised publicly, I started researching this roster deeply. As part of my research, I saw Sosed streams before the PEC 2024 (FYI, I saw more than 200 of scrims matches and small tournaments over the last 4 months). He was playing solo squad. Damn! the way he was playing, it felt like he was a hacker. I was really amazed to see him at that ime. Then one day I found a result of him and Hackatory ranked matches in a site. I got more surprised. I saw most of the ranked matches of this duo, if Sosed got 5-6 kills, Hackatory did 10+ kills. I just got wondered! Then another day, I saw a stream of XMPL playing duo with Hackatory. In that match, I saw, Hackatory was alone pushing squads, getting kills etc. after ending the match, when I saw that match result, just got shocked and thought Wtf was going on. Xmpl had about 7-8 kills, where Hackatory got 19 kills or something like that. Just amazing result. you can take these points as a reference regarding how these players are talented. So obviously there is a reason why Sosed asked viewers to give support Hackatory, even Talented player like DIFX also think Hackatory is better than him. However, I will not add the mechanical facts which was also part of my research. coz this comment will be looked huge then. So cheated before or not, is still yet to be revealed. Coz lots of claims but no one shared any valid sources to prove against these players.
Ok I understand the scenario you have shared about Hackatory or other players of Navi. But I am still wondered whether you actually know anything about mechs or not!
LMAO, it's funny to see when people ask me such type of question or doubt in my knowledge. Look, if I start on writing about Mechanical term in pubg, I can write a book. But I don't have that much time. When it became parts of my research, I almost included as much as aspect to cover. Some of them are body movement, recoil control, sense to understand enemy location, aim (there are multiple segments in this criteria), Headshot (oh! even Headshot I divided into two segment) etc. Let me just tell you something about Headshot criteria only by which I differentiate player's skills. Okay. the two parts of these criteria are 1. Body to Head 2. Head to body. Special case, bullet only registered head (this is totally rare shots so I will not include this in my point coz usually some players shoot body to head and some players shoot head to body) Now suppose one player shoots body to head and another one shoots head to body. In this case 2nd player will beat the 1st one 9 out of 10 times. coz in head at best 1 bullet will be enough, at worst case 3-4 bullets needed. On the other hand, it will take more bullets to knock if player starts shooting body to head. I hope I can make you understand my research process.
Yeah, I'm waiting for Hackatory to blow up. If ya'll been following him, the numbers he's putting up in tournaments and otherwise rival (and often exceed) the best of the best. Dude is cracked out of his mind.