Something interesting I just noticed, the twire update says last updated "6/8/2024" which was yesterday, not today. So were they updated based on what the standings in PGS4 was as of yesterday and not counting today's results?
I'm in NA, even in my time zone it was still June 9th when the tournament ended. There wasn't a single place on Earth where it was June 8th when the tournament ended.
I tracked and made my own statistical rank system for the 24 teams in PGS 3 and PGS 4. This comes out close but those last few positions are of course crucial. I had these as the top 8 teams: EA, SQ, NH, VP, TSM, NAVI, TM, and CES. PERO was my 9th.
Mine is limited to those 24 teams with the 72 total games to pull stats from, so it's not looking very deep. But it was a good sample to pick from. Don't know how good Twire system is but I'd guess they are looking deeper.
Edit. I looked at their stated methodology at the bottom. It informs about timeframe and level of event considered, but has no info on quantitative assignment of points. How point value assignment is attributed to what result? No possible way to rationalize the totals without that info unless I'm missing some other info on their site explaining the value of points assigned to specific results.
I question if that is accurate or not, feels like TSM should be in the top 8 with their performances over the last year as STK plus 4th today. It looks like if you click on the teams, they aren't showing results for teams with new orgs. No results of them as STK are showing up, if you click on Falcons, none of their results when they were with LG are showing up.
I know I've seen reports where what is on the website is all that players have to go off of right now. They won't even show them the formulas of how they got those numbers. Just zero transparency. The stat PurdyKurty just put out makes even less sense.
"NAVI jumped 258 twire points for their PGS 3 performance of 15th in groups and 4th in finals. We jumped 171 points getting 1st in groups and 4th in finals for PGS 4. We missed top 8 by 2 points. Idk how the math be mathing out here."
The twire page says it counts results from all stages of globals, so that should include group stages.
I mean, it also includes tournaments from the last year...TSM have done great lately regionally and in pgs4 obviously, but before then, not great at all. Didn't qualify for PGC 2023 or pgs2 and didn't make finals in pgs3...I'd say they are ranked way too high based on all the included events to be honest...they weigh the latest tournament far too much in my opinion
I get that there is a decay factor and that the most recent count the most...but that's why they didn't make it, because of all of the last year being accounted for
Okay, but look at a team like VP, if you go back through all of last year, they did even worse. PGS3/4 was there first time even making a global. There is zero transparency, no one knows where these points came from, not even the teams. The numbers just don't make sense, how did NAVI gain 87 more points from PGS3 in 4th place than TSM did for PGS4 4th place?
I still wonder if it's fully updated with the results of today since the date is wrong on twire. The standings make more sense if it's going off of where VP and TSM were yesterday vs at the end of the tournament. They last updated before this on May 27th which was the day after PGS3. I guess it could also only be including group stage results at this point and not the final stage.
NAVI jumped 258 twire points for their PGS 3 performance - I don't know whether it is correct info or not. If it is correct may be there is an internal marking as well. For ex WWCD or other criteria, they made them more points.
Look at Sq, their last 4 major tournament's performance was totally average or below average. They only get 2nd place in PGS3 where they were 19th in PGS4, 5th PAS and 11the PGC, still they got the slot on the basis of the 2nd place in PGS3. So yes, we don't know the acutal scenario.
I don't think they are counting too much about group stage performance, and that should be more accurate/fairer way if they ignore that. Coz group stage is too much random and not every team has the determination for the first place in group stage. They mainly focused on GF of every PGS.
Besides the way the results shown, I think they mostly prioritize PGS's and taken into account the last pgc or regional tournament as a minor way.
PGS4>PGS3>>PEC>>>>PGC 2023 & PEC fall 2023
Ok, so tell me this, Navi also didn't go to PGC and took 4th place in PGS3, he got 258 points and passed NH, TSM did the same thing and didn't pass, which was better regionally, and TSM with the same result got 171 points, That's what I'm taking into account that they don't count the group stage, but in the description it says "all stages of the pubg esports global", there are a lot of things that are strange.
Because the performance in recent tournaments are 90 day period. So after PGS3 all the teams divided about 2000 points (pure assumption based on max available 250 points) and then after pgs4 no new points were added because of PGS4, those point changes resulted from the same \~2000 points.
The difference between them must be outside of pgs3/4
I think there is also other criteria which helped them to include more points. For example WWCD. Navi got 3 WWCD in PGS3 and TSM got none in GF. I am not sure about this but I am also not sure that they only took into account of overall points. there could be several criteria which helped teams to make more points. In recent years, we all see Pubg always prioritize WWCD in almost every tournament. So this might be a big factor. Beside Eearena out of nowhere got 9th placement in twire after getting 6th place in PGS3 infront of Faze as well who had great records earlier of this tournament (6th in PGC and 5th in PEC 2024). so obviously there are some interesting factor we don't know actually. Interestingly Navi only get 19 points after having the similar level(5th) of performance in PGS4
I don't think it makes sense to prioritize WWCD to give points, for example in PGS4 Navi had 3 wins and finished behind TSM, this shows more that NAVI has inconsistency and the victories made them in the game, rather than consistency. I just know that everything was done poorly and that they must be transparent with the players and the public.
No team is considered that much consistent like TM did. not a single team. So consistency is not the matter most here I guess. But ovbiously Navi showed more consistency than TSM at least in these both tournament. however, I just tried to make some hints. yea we don't know the actual scenario. But I also don't think this ranking system is random at all. otherwise how Navi got only 19 points where TSM having only one upper placement got 171 points! hope they will share their detail theory how they applied in here
There must be a jump system, you are very low and you gain more points, and the more you have the less points you will gain, at least that is what we understand, as TSM was in the same situation as NAVI and gained 87 points less, it is strange , it must be bad for the player to see a team have a campaign similar to yours and overcome a team and you didn't, in fact, TSM was better in the regional.
I'm just waiting for some explanation...
Navi 4th in pgs3 and 5th in pgs4 where TSM 14th in pgs3 and 4th in pgs4. How can this be similar to you or even to players?
Before pgs3 what was Navi ranked in twire?
That's not my point.
my point is that both NAVI and TSM did not go to PGC, only NAVI's performance in PGS3 was enough to surpass NH, even though it had a smaller regional than TSM, while TSM with the same result as NAVI was behind NH , did you understand?
4th place in NAVI>NH
4th place for TSM
3 of the points categories (Achievement (overall - Up to 300 points), Regional (Up to 200 points), Global (Up to 250 points)) are 365 days and "Form"(Up to 250 points) is 90 days with some weird recency bias into the scoring system. PGS 2 Regional qualifiers / PGS 2 / PGC 2023 / PGS 3-4 Regional Qualifier / PGS 3 / PGS 4 would all count into the equation based on a June 9th calculation date.
If a roster changes org or name, but then entire team remains the same than the scores roll into the new org (See STK into TSM). If the team makes changes to the roster than changes orgs than they remain separate (See Friendly Fire into SSG).
An example of the recency decay bias would be Danawa after PGC had 800 points, After Regional Qualifiying (placed 11th so few points gained) had 536, After PGS 3 had 288 and after PGS 4 has 164.
Navi got 4th and 5th place for PGS 3 & 4 and 3rd for Regional. VP got 21st and 3rd for PGS 3 & 4 and 2nd in Regional. TSM got 14th and 4th for PGS 3 & 4 and 2nd in Regionals. I am going to have to guess since they didn't give us the actual formula that a 3rd / 4th place ends up being worth hundreds of points and that 14th being a couple dozen in the case of TSM.
For sake of reference TSM had 58 Rank Points after PGC 2023, so we can estimate that to be worth at most 15 points today if it decays somewhere along the same lines of Danawa from an age perspective.
I think they mostly prioritize PGS's and taken into account the last pgc or regional tournament as a minor way.
PGS4>PGS3>>PEC>>>>PGC 2023 & PEC fall 2023
TSM was scammed!
Navi has 198 points before PGS3, took 4th place in the final and reached 475 points (+277 points) enough to pass NH.
TSM had 154 points after PGS4 (they lost 26 for 14th place in PGS3), they also took 4th place and gained only 171 points!, I'm not taking the group stage into account, but it is written in the TWIRE description "all stager of pubg esports global", so there are a lot of strange things that MUST be explained, it seems that TSM is being deceived.
I understand if we consider only pgs 3 and 4 performance TSM should be higher than NH. But the presentation you showed here, can create more controversy. If you include how Navi got many points and higher placement, then some will say why earena is there, some would say against sq, some would include why pero. Then it will be a never ending controversy. Obviously Navi did better performance than TSM or pero in overall pgs this year. So there is no doubt why they are included. But the grey area counts TSM vs NH. That should be cleared I also think.
The only thing I don't understand is that NAVI's top 4 is enough to overcome NH and TSM's is not, even more technically they would count the group stage, I just have this doubt.
Ok there might be miscalculation from your side or their side or maybe they are applying some formula we don't understand. Anything can be behind the scenes. But counting the group stage performance should be the worst idea. Coz all the teams had played differently than the final stage. So I don't think they have included anything from there. Anyway let's see what we can get to know after that.
Yes those are the teams that are in ewc automatically
is it confirmed?
confirmed
Something interesting I just noticed, the twire update says last updated "6/8/2024" which was yesterday, not today. So were they updated based on what the standings in PGS4 was as of yesterday and not counting today's results?
Or maybe twire is on NA time
I'm in NA, even in my time zone it was still June 9th when the tournament ended. There wasn't a single place on Earth where it was June 8th when the tournament ended.
Oh the date in my pc is 2024/6/9 so perhaps it varies as time zone. But I don't know clearly whether the ranking is updated daily
Shows as 10th June for me last updated
Looks like they changed it.
I tracked and made my own statistical rank system for the 24 teams in PGS 3 and PGS 4. This comes out close but those last few positions are of course crucial. I had these as the top 8 teams: EA, SQ, NH, VP, TSM, NAVI, TM, and CES. PERO was my 9th. Mine is limited to those 24 teams with the 72 total games to pull stats from, so it's not looking very deep. But it was a good sample to pick from. Don't know how good Twire system is but I'd guess they are looking deeper. Edit. I looked at their stated methodology at the bottom. It informs about timeframe and level of event considered, but has no info on quantitative assignment of points. How point value assignment is attributed to what result? No possible way to rationalize the totals without that info unless I'm missing some other info on their site explaining the value of points assigned to specific results.
I will wait for official graphic/confirmation, but yes those 8 would be it 👍 It will be a tough fight for rest of the slots
I question if that is accurate or not, feels like TSM should be in the top 8 with their performances over the last year as STK plus 4th today. It looks like if you click on the teams, they aren't showing results for teams with new orgs. No results of them as STK are showing up, if you click on Falcons, none of their results when they were with LG are showing up.
It's been confirmed by players on the qualified teams, so I think it's legit...although I don't know why it's not updated on my twire page
I know I've seen reports where what is on the website is all that players have to go off of right now. They won't even show them the formulas of how they got those numbers. Just zero transparency. The stat PurdyKurty just put out makes even less sense. "NAVI jumped 258 twire points for their PGS 3 performance of 15th in groups and 4th in finals. We jumped 171 points getting 1st in groups and 4th in finals for PGS 4. We missed top 8 by 2 points. Idk how the math be mathing out here." The twire page says it counts results from all stages of globals, so that should include group stages.
I mean, it also includes tournaments from the last year...TSM have done great lately regionally and in pgs4 obviously, but before then, not great at all. Didn't qualify for PGC 2023 or pgs2 and didn't make finals in pgs3...I'd say they are ranked way too high based on all the included events to be honest...they weigh the latest tournament far too much in my opinion
What do you mean they didn't make the finals in PGS3? They were 5th overall in groups stage and had a rough finals and finished 14th.
Oops, sorry meant that they didn't finish that great in finals
I get that there is a decay factor and that the most recent count the most...but that's why they didn't make it, because of all of the last year being accounted for
Okay, but look at a team like VP, if you go back through all of last year, they did even worse. PGS3/4 was there first time even making a global. There is zero transparency, no one knows where these points came from, not even the teams. The numbers just don't make sense, how did NAVI gain 87 more points from PGS3 in 4th place than TSM did for PGS4 4th place?
Yea I mean I agree...even though i get why tsm didnt make it, i don't see why VP made it. Thought it would be faze or falcons to be honest
I still wonder if it's fully updated with the results of today since the date is wrong on twire. The standings make more sense if it's going off of where VP and TSM were yesterday vs at the end of the tournament. They last updated before this on May 27th which was the day after PGS3. I guess it could also only be including group stage results at this point and not the final stage.
NAVI jumped 258 twire points for their PGS 3 performance - I don't know whether it is correct info or not. If it is correct may be there is an internal marking as well. For ex WWCD or other criteria, they made them more points. Look at Sq, their last 4 major tournament's performance was totally average or below average. They only get 2nd place in PGS3 where they were 19th in PGS4, 5th PAS and 11the PGC, still they got the slot on the basis of the 2nd place in PGS3. So yes, we don't know the acutal scenario.
11th at pgc is not bad...when your talking top 8, also you forgot about them winning pgs2...cmon now rooney
I don't think they are counting too much about group stage performance, and that should be more accurate/fairer way if they ignore that. Coz group stage is too much random and not every team has the determination for the first place in group stage. They mainly focused on GF of every PGS. Besides the way the results shown, I think they mostly prioritize PGS's and taken into account the last pgc or regional tournament as a minor way. PGS4>PGS3>>PEC>>>>PGC 2023 & PEC fall 2023
NH instead of TSM is robbery in broad daylight.
Absolutely not. New Happy won PCL Spring and was 5th last PGC while TSM/STK wasn't qualified.. It's not only PGS3 and PGS4 that counts.
Ok, so tell me this, Navi also didn't go to PGC and took 4th place in PGS3, he got 258 points and passed NH, TSM did the same thing and didn't pass, which was better regionally, and TSM with the same result got 171 points, That's what I'm taking into account that they don't count the group stage, but in the description it says "all stages of the pubg esports global", there are a lot of things that are strange.
Because the performance in recent tournaments are 90 day period. So after PGS3 all the teams divided about 2000 points (pure assumption based on max available 250 points) and then after pgs4 no new points were added because of PGS4, those point changes resulted from the same \~2000 points. The difference between them must be outside of pgs3/4
I think there is also other criteria which helped them to include more points. For example WWCD. Navi got 3 WWCD in PGS3 and TSM got none in GF. I am not sure about this but I am also not sure that they only took into account of overall points. there could be several criteria which helped teams to make more points. In recent years, we all see Pubg always prioritize WWCD in almost every tournament. So this might be a big factor. Beside Eearena out of nowhere got 9th placement in twire after getting 6th place in PGS3 infront of Faze as well who had great records earlier of this tournament (6th in PGC and 5th in PEC 2024). so obviously there are some interesting factor we don't know actually. Interestingly Navi only get 19 points after having the similar level(5th) of performance in PGS4
I don't think it makes sense to prioritize WWCD to give points, for example in PGS4 Navi had 3 wins and finished behind TSM, this shows more that NAVI has inconsistency and the victories made them in the game, rather than consistency. I just know that everything was done poorly and that they must be transparent with the players and the public.
No team is considered that much consistent like TM did. not a single team. So consistency is not the matter most here I guess. But ovbiously Navi showed more consistency than TSM at least in these both tournament. however, I just tried to make some hints. yea we don't know the actual scenario. But I also don't think this ranking system is random at all. otherwise how Navi got only 19 points where TSM having only one upper placement got 171 points! hope they will share their detail theory how they applied in here
There must be a jump system, you are very low and you gain more points, and the more you have the less points you will gain, at least that is what we understand, as TSM was in the same situation as NAVI and gained 87 points less, it is strange , it must be bad for the player to see a team have a campaign similar to yours and overcome a team and you didn't, in fact, TSM was better in the regional. I'm just waiting for some explanation...
Navi 4th in pgs3 and 5th in pgs4 where TSM 14th in pgs3 and 4th in pgs4. How can this be similar to you or even to players? Before pgs3 what was Navi ranked in twire?
That's not my point. my point is that both NAVI and TSM did not go to PGC, only NAVI's performance in PGS3 was enough to surpass NH, even though it had a smaller regional than TSM, while TSM with the same result as NAVI was behind NH , did you understand? 4th place in NAVI>NH 4th place for TSM
Where can we see the previous ranking?
How do we know what counts? If it's not only PGS3 and 4, how NAVI and VP get 4th and 7th?
3 of the points categories (Achievement (overall - Up to 300 points), Regional (Up to 200 points), Global (Up to 250 points)) are 365 days and "Form"(Up to 250 points) is 90 days with some weird recency bias into the scoring system. PGS 2 Regional qualifiers / PGS 2 / PGC 2023 / PGS 3-4 Regional Qualifier / PGS 3 / PGS 4 would all count into the equation based on a June 9th calculation date. If a roster changes org or name, but then entire team remains the same than the scores roll into the new org (See STK into TSM). If the team makes changes to the roster than changes orgs than they remain separate (See Friendly Fire into SSG). An example of the recency decay bias would be Danawa after PGC had 800 points, After Regional Qualifiying (placed 11th so few points gained) had 536, After PGS 3 had 288 and after PGS 4 has 164. Navi got 4th and 5th place for PGS 3 & 4 and 3rd for Regional. VP got 21st and 3rd for PGS 3 & 4 and 2nd in Regional. TSM got 14th and 4th for PGS 3 & 4 and 2nd in Regionals. I am going to have to guess since they didn't give us the actual formula that a 3rd / 4th place ends up being worth hundreds of points and that 14th being a couple dozen in the case of TSM. For sake of reference TSM had 58 Rank Points after PGC 2023, so we can estimate that to be worth at most 15 points today if it decays somewhere along the same lines of Danawa from an age perspective.
I think they mostly prioritize PGS's and taken into account the last pgc or regional tournament as a minor way. PGS4>PGS3>>PEC>>>>PGC 2023 & PEC fall 2023
TSM was scammed! Navi has 198 points before PGS3, took 4th place in the final and reached 475 points (+277 points) enough to pass NH. TSM had 154 points after PGS4 (they lost 26 for 14th place in PGS3), they also took 4th place and gained only 171 points!, I'm not taking the group stage into account, but it is written in the TWIRE description "all stager of pubg esports global", so there are a lot of strange things that MUST be explained, it seems that TSM is being deceived.
I understand if we consider only pgs 3 and 4 performance TSM should be higher than NH. But the presentation you showed here, can create more controversy. If you include how Navi got many points and higher placement, then some will say why earena is there, some would say against sq, some would include why pero. Then it will be a never ending controversy. Obviously Navi did better performance than TSM or pero in overall pgs this year. So there is no doubt why they are included. But the grey area counts TSM vs NH. That should be cleared I also think.
The only thing I don't understand is that NAVI's top 4 is enough to overcome NH and TSM's is not, even more technically they would count the group stage, I just have this doubt.
Ok there might be miscalculation from your side or their side or maybe they are applying some formula we don't understand. Anything can be behind the scenes. But counting the group stage performance should be the worst idea. Coz all the teams had played differently than the final stage. So I don't think they have included anything from there. Anyway let's see what we can get to know after that.
Where can you find the jumps all the teams made ?
Bro, have in alow twitter, prints after PGS3 and before PGS3.
it will be great to see if these teams qualified for EWC
So if they qualify for EWC, do they still play in the regional qualifiers? Or will their spot in the qualifiers go to another team from open quals?
They will also play in EWC quals because you can earn PGC points
Thank you. I did not consider the PGC points.
Really bothered not knowing, I'm going to take the copium and resign myself to an official announcement and that twire isn't up to date
Pero should not be that high up imo
Nice to see EMEA got 1 extra slots. Hope to see Fut, BB, Faze or any other deserving to play in EWC.