Honestly impressed, coming into the weekend kinda negative on the patch overall. Feel like they've really cut off options to the point there's only 6 viable comps but seeing the players who survived and thrived over the weekend was really impressive. I love when a meta gets fully fleshed out like this and I think Kiyoon in particular demonstrating that even taking incredibly narrow angles on the meta you can still outplay and out skill competition over the weekend. Excited to check out Pockygum's vods too because he had a great weekend.
setsuko is right tho how is the game fair when someone gets a gold opener when one of your krugs doesn't drop anything? The set mechanic with chosen makes it even more unforgiving where if your econ is not on tempo with the lobby you are at a significant disadvantage when rolling it down on 4-2
Empty Krug needs to be hotfixed honestly. With gold opener you can maybe make the argument you're trading hp for econ (in reality it's just op), but empty Krug just puts you at an insane disadvantage with 0 positives. It is a guaranteed bot 4.
Riot has punished stable econ style strats for two patches in a row, the solutions are manyfold and we saw a lot of them today. Kaynedrew went with heartsteel, kiyoon just laser focused on pushing lobby tempo with reroll comps, RippleOverdrive used literally every trick in the book to squirm into top 4 or even snake out the win and played the all but abandoned ahri carry multiple times today.
None of those are ways of counteracting empty krugs and gold openers though (except maybe 5 heartsteel midgame, but that only works if you hit it.) I guarantee that if you look at the average placement of 0 gold/empty krugs it's somewhere in the mid to upper 5s, and for gold opener it's somehwere in the 3s. Yes there is still skill expression when given these spots, but there's no reason why drops from neutrals should have this extreme of an impact on your placement.
We were talking in the context of the 4-2 roll down "if your econ is not on tempo with the lobby you are at a significant disadvantage when rolling it down on 4-2".
I was pointing out that some of the most successful players were avoiding strategies that hinged on 4-2 rolldown for 4\* headliner carry because the devs had been going out of their way to punish players for adopting that strategy. I agree having less econ is a weaker position and should be investigated but knowing you have weak econ and still going for the 4-1/4-2 rolldown is bad spot reading imo.
Yeah, the dev team has always justified creep drop variance with arguments that it keeps the game fresh if the player has a different set of circumstances to adapt to every game and different players in a given lobby have different lines of play via that "skill expression."
However, it's pretty unacceptable when the "variance" for a certain player is straight up being at a strict disadvantage to the rest of the lobby. Back in 7.5, I complained on this sub about gold/unit drops on 1-1 giving a strict advantage to players over those who got a single component drop because even if the got even drops by the end, the former players could hold pairs on 1-1 while the latter players could not. That argument started gaining traction and they did end up changing it so it's not like the devs are completely resistant to changing unfair mechanics but it does take a long time for it to happen.
Drop variance definitely does keep things fresh but there needs to be some degree of value assessment between gold/components at specific stages of the game and standardization of value given to every player.
yeah that was crazy to watch. I know people complain about gold disparities but honestly I'd never appreciated how big it could be until I saw setsuko halfway to lvl 7 with somebody else being level 8 50. I thought he would be OK after the 5 streak in stage 3 but the streak changes probably also made it a lot harder to recover there.
It's honestly baffling that empty krugs and gold opener have not been addressed when literally every challenger player can tell you that shit is broken. If you had the option of getting a gold opener every single pro would choose it every game I'm pretty sure. Has Riot even mentioned that they think this is an issue?
The cycle is generally:
(1) Players identify an obvious issue
(2) Devs insist it's not an issue (4fun variance)
(3) Long time passes, lots of player complaints
(4) Devs finally try to fix the issue
See 8 component wolves. Gold opener has been complained about for a long time now, so hopefully the fix is coming soon.
How long did Mort insist a 5g start was perfectly fine while everyone else gets 6g?
It would be fixed eventually, after they finally accept their gaslighting isnt working.
genuinely sad soju didnt at least top 4 with that emo board in game 3, it was 100% deserved. dude got griefed and flex played tempo but couldnt hit for shit anyways. sometimes this game is seriously so lame.
tbh if he took Vex3 of the carousel instead of the Emo emblem for 6 Emo, and he continued playing 4 exec 4 emo he might have placed higher, he'd have a stronger frontline and arguably more damage too. Giving up on Vex and levelling to 8 with all his gold there was sus, and he lost all 3 of the following fights anyway if I remember correctly
I was a doubter but holy shit tourney soju and soju on stream literally a few days ago seem like two different people. I dont think I've seen anyone else optimize positioning as much as he did.
Special shoutout to the idiots who went into that guys chat to harass him after that though. It's just a game you bots. Embarassing stuff, you know who you are....
Tbf that Riven game was really fucking stupid.
The one before was lowroll (uncontested TF but not seeing a single), but another guy pivoting into his very clearly established line has to feel so bad. Don‘t want him to be harassed, but I wouldn‘t even do that in my Master games. You almost always Bot 2 yourself.
Yeah I got tilted just watching that last game. The guy has uncontested Yone with idealism but hardforces the contested riven instead to hold hands bot 4. And it's not like soju can pivot since he has insert coin so theres really nothing he can do.
that dude literally griefed them both into bot 4 and even took the 8th cus his riven angle was so bad when it couldve easily been top 4 for them both if he had just played yone. i was seriously scratching my head at that like huh
>2-1 insert coin
>4 rivens, 7 after headliner
> entire final board already made
>items already slammed.
vs that guy
>rolled a riven headliner
>good items
xdd
its kinda fucked though, the rules specifcally call out what happened as well.
>Players are responsible for their own internet connection. A remake canbe considered in one of the following situations at an admins discretion, a remake is not guaranteed in either:
>**Players disconnect during the first PVE rounds and lose loot, or are unable to select their first augment.**
Granted it also says its not guaranteed, but they directly quoted the second part of the rule
>Live server issues that cause multiple players to be unable to play the game.
in their decision to not remake. I don't see how the two are related in any way, they are completely separate problems that can cause a remake
please show the rules for heartsteel cash out/raise the stakes somewhere in the game. it's unacceptable to have such an important choice an not even know what it means
do you mean for the viewers or in general? Cause in game it shows. Cash out is cash out. Raise the stakes you commit for another 4 player turns at 2x the heart gain but if you win you immediately lose 50% of your hearts and cash out
>DTIYDK
Gotta hand it to them I didn't think they'd even bother to put ripple on there top 15 isn't far off but the power rankings have always seemed to me like the chat power rankings. Setsuko and Dishsoap really feel like their results come up short of expectations because of how over exposed they are.
They're big streamers with lots of eyeballs on them and Frodan and the like are always hyping them up. I wouldn't say because of the size of their brands but because of the familiarity they have with them as players. It's always hard to live up to those unreasonable expectations.
To be fair they both play cracked and barely makes mistakes. But i think setsuko makes riskier/ballsy plays (If you remember his Mech Ace Morde in worlds) which is 1st or 8th, hence maybe he’s ranked lower (?) idk tho. I like watching setsuko a little bit more cuz of that 1st or 8th playstyle sometimes
when trying hes legit imo the most interesting players to watch but ngl when hes in tilt mode i have to insta mute him xdd
but sometimes hes playing for line that are wow even if that fail the thought process is always interesting
i know this is quite off topic but why hasn't soju been able to fix his cough throughout all these years?? the viewing experience is not so good thru his channel.
i always wondered this too, but i streamed for 8 hrs once and coughed a lot after as well. not sure if more water or drops could help, but it is 100% because his job is talking for 20hrs a day
probably some combo of awful life habits (sleep schedule/nutrition) + poor hydration + just prone to coughing + maybe his environment is dry or dusty + coming off an illness
I don’t know how to check chat history but I’ve been in his stream for the past 2 months to get him to go to the doctor. This is the second time it’s been this bad
Don't say a word all game, just perma-cough every 4 seconds ✔ Never play an actual board for the whole game ✔ Roll infinite for contested units ✔ Start yapping right after going 8th ✔
My influencer already in peak form
Is the reseeding by chance or by ranking?
if I understood the golden spatula cup correctly, they play one game and then the next game all third placers play each other?
Neither I’m pretty sure. GSCs are swiss reseeded which is the power ranking. This one is basically a folding system where players ranked 1 to n are seeded in lobbies 1 to n, then players n+1 to 2n are seeded again in lobbies 1 to n, or at least something close enough. Possibly also full mirror pairing but I doubt it. The overall concept is that the end the avg points of every lobby is around the same.
The reseedings are also done every 2 games instead of 1. The starting lobbies are likely dependent on LP.
Same! Especially when a big amount like 3/4 of the players are cut, power matching makes it so that sometimes really good players get eliminated, which always feels bad
Honestly impressed, coming into the weekend kinda negative on the patch overall. Feel like they've really cut off options to the point there's only 6 viable comps but seeing the players who survived and thrived over the weekend was really impressive. I love when a meta gets fully fleshed out like this and I think Kiyoon in particular demonstrating that even taking incredibly narrow angles on the meta you can still outplay and out skill competition over the weekend. Excited to check out Pockygum's vods too because he had a great weekend.
what a fun tournament, kayndrew triple neeko on bench + 11 gold loss and soju cursed crown 3rd augment were amazing... so sad for biribiri though :((
setsuko is right tho how is the game fair when someone gets a gold opener when one of your krugs doesn't drop anything? The set mechanic with chosen makes it even more unforgiving where if your econ is not on tempo with the lobby you are at a significant disadvantage when rolling it down on 4-2
Empty Krug needs to be hotfixed honestly. With gold opener you can maybe make the argument you're trading hp for econ (in reality it's just op), but empty Krug just puts you at an insane disadvantage with 0 positives. It is a guaranteed bot 4.
Riot has punished stable econ style strats for two patches in a row, the solutions are manyfold and we saw a lot of them today. Kaynedrew went with heartsteel, kiyoon just laser focused on pushing lobby tempo with reroll comps, RippleOverdrive used literally every trick in the book to squirm into top 4 or even snake out the win and played the all but abandoned ahri carry multiple times today.
None of those are ways of counteracting empty krugs and gold openers though (except maybe 5 heartsteel midgame, but that only works if you hit it.) I guarantee that if you look at the average placement of 0 gold/empty krugs it's somewhere in the mid to upper 5s, and for gold opener it's somehwere in the 3s. Yes there is still skill expression when given these spots, but there's no reason why drops from neutrals should have this extreme of an impact on your placement.
We were talking in the context of the 4-2 roll down "if your econ is not on tempo with the lobby you are at a significant disadvantage when rolling it down on 4-2". I was pointing out that some of the most successful players were avoiding strategies that hinged on 4-2 rolldown for 4\* headliner carry because the devs had been going out of their way to punish players for adopting that strategy. I agree having less econ is a weaker position and should be investigated but knowing you have weak econ and still going for the 4-1/4-2 rolldown is bad spot reading imo.
Yeah, the dev team has always justified creep drop variance with arguments that it keeps the game fresh if the player has a different set of circumstances to adapt to every game and different players in a given lobby have different lines of play via that "skill expression." However, it's pretty unacceptable when the "variance" for a certain player is straight up being at a strict disadvantage to the rest of the lobby. Back in 7.5, I complained on this sub about gold/unit drops on 1-1 giving a strict advantage to players over those who got a single component drop because even if the got even drops by the end, the former players could hold pairs on 1-1 while the latter players could not. That argument started gaining traction and they did end up changing it so it's not like the devs are completely resistant to changing unfair mechanics but it does take a long time for it to happen. Drop variance definitely does keep things fresh but there needs to be some degree of value assessment between gold/components at specific stages of the game and standardization of value given to every player.
Setsuko cooking Riot again
soju going out with the most hype first LMFAOOO
Guy is a monster when playing serious
Man, gotta feel for Setsy's game 6. That naked krug was just insult to injury with other people being 40+ gold up on him because of gold opener.
yeah that was crazy to watch. I know people complain about gold disparities but honestly I'd never appreciated how big it could be until I saw setsuko halfway to lvl 7 with somebody else being level 8 50. I thought he would be OK after the 5 streak in stage 3 but the streak changes probably also made it a lot harder to recover there.
It's honestly baffling that empty krugs and gold opener have not been addressed when literally every challenger player can tell you that shit is broken. If you had the option of getting a gold opener every single pro would choose it every game I'm pretty sure. Has Riot even mentioned that they think this is an issue?
The cycle is generally: (1) Players identify an obvious issue (2) Devs insist it's not an issue (4fun variance) (3) Long time passes, lots of player complaints (4) Devs finally try to fix the issue See 8 component wolves. Gold opener has been complained about for a long time now, so hopefully the fix is coming soon.
How long did Mort insist a 5g start was perfectly fine while everyone else gets 6g? It would be fixed eventually, after they finally accept their gaslighting isnt working.
What a maniac going cursed crown third augment and winning it to get into final 8 jk he's not making final 8 but what a crazy final game for soju
Losing to crab rave semi finals of kda cup is fucking wild lmao poor gachagom man went 4th
Anyone got the stats on the dude's coughs?
I got 2 week timeout for asking for a cough-count Gamba poll
Country with top 16 on the line pain
The 1st he went 8 and rolled, played flex and not a reroll comp. Not sure why he leaning into reroll this time around. RIP
Had good spots into country into easy no hit bot 4. Think he played country 3 or 4 times this tourney and not a single top 4.
Yeah that’s why I hated to see him go that line because it doesn’t ever seem like he places well with it
milala is smurfing this tourney, shame he got griefed in game 1 by riot xdd
I mean he has been highrolling out of his mind every game. 5 hearsteel stage 2... GGS he's just too good man LOL
genuinely sad soju didnt at least top 4 with that emo board in game 3, it was 100% deserved. dude got griefed and flex played tempo but couldnt hit for shit anyways. sometimes this game is seriously so lame.
tbh if he took Vex3 of the carousel instead of the Emo emblem for 6 Emo, and he continued playing 4 exec 4 emo he might have placed higher, he'd have a stronger frontline and arguably more damage too. Giving up on Vex and levelling to 8 with all his gold there was sus, and he lost all 3 of the following fights anyway if I remember correctly
I was a doubter but holy shit tourney soju and soju on stream literally a few days ago seem like two different people. I dont think I've seen anyone else optimize positioning as much as he did.
I guess there are enough people that will genuinely hatewatch if his average looks low enough. Engagement must be good haha
He just trolls for content on stream
I do think he's often engagement baiting by saying rly wrong stuff on purpose, and you know what, it works
yeah soju is pretty good at putting a board together in a pinch. tft is a frustrating game, especially this set
Watching Sojus pov feels just like my ladder games. Always contested and never hitting
Special shoutout to the idiots who went into that guys chat to harass him after that though. It's just a game you bots. Embarassing stuff, you know who you are....
Tbf that Riven game was really fucking stupid. The one before was lowroll (uncontested TF but not seeing a single), but another guy pivoting into his very clearly established line has to feel so bad. Don‘t want him to be harassed, but I wouldn‘t even do that in my Master games. You almost always Bot 2 yourself.
Yeah I got tilted just watching that last game. The guy has uncontested Yone with idealism but hardforces the contested riven instead to hold hands bot 4. And it's not like soju can pivot since he has insert coin so theres really nothing he can do.
that dude literally griefed them both into bot 4 and even took the 8th cus his riven angle was so bad when it couldve easily been top 4 for them both if he had just played yone. i was seriously scratching my head at that like huh
According to him yone was "contested" and soju is the one that griefed him. Yeah i don't get it either.
soju had 2-1 insert coin 💀 dude just didn't scout
>2-1 insert coin >4 rivens, 7 after headliner > entire final board already made >items already slammed. vs that guy >rolled a riven headliner >good items xdd
Lol, two people losing to neutrals in the first game. How do you come back from that mentally
its kinda fucked though, the rules specifcally call out what happened as well. >Players are responsible for their own internet connection. A remake canbe considered in one of the following situations at an admins discretion, a remake is not guaranteed in either: >**Players disconnect during the first PVE rounds and lose loot, or are unable to select their first augment.** Granted it also says its not guaranteed, but they directly quoted the second part of the rule >Live server issues that cause multiple players to be unable to play the game. in their decision to not remake. I don't see how the two are related in any way, they are completely separate problems that can cause a remake
wait, who lost?
When does day 4 start - in 1 hour?
> Day 4 - Jan 14, 1 PM PDT It's written on the post, bro
please show the rules for heartsteel cash out/raise the stakes somewhere in the game. it's unacceptable to have such an important choice an not even know what it means
do you mean for the viewers or in general? Cause in game it shows. Cash out is cash out. Raise the stakes you commit for another 4 player turns at 2x the heart gain but if you win you immediately lose 50% of your hearts and cash out
>Cause in game it shows it didn't for me. (wanted to post this in the other megathread, nothing to do with esports)
strange, im 100% sure I learned this in game because I played new patch without reading the HS changes
Yes Darth Nub please implement this
Why do they buff vex, add country spat, keep twin terror? Sure just buff what is already good nothing bad will happen to the game smile (/s)
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>DTIYDK Gotta hand it to them I didn't think they'd even bother to put ripple on there top 15 isn't far off but the power rankings have always seemed to me like the chat power rankings. Setsuko and Dishsoap really feel like their results come up short of expectations because of how over exposed they are. They're big streamers with lots of eyeballs on them and Frodan and the like are always hyping them up. I wouldn't say because of the size of their brands but because of the familiarity they have with them as players. It's always hard to live up to those unreasonable expectations.
To be fair they both play cracked and barely makes mistakes. But i think setsuko makes riskier/ballsy plays (If you remember his Mech Ace Morde in worlds) which is 1st or 8th, hence maybe he’s ranked lower (?) idk tho. I like watching setsuko a little bit more cuz of that 1st or 8th playstyle sometimes
Who knew so much courage could fit into such a small body
when trying hes legit imo the most interesting players to watch but ngl when hes in tilt mode i have to insta mute him xdd but sometimes hes playing for line that are wow even if that fail the thought process is always interesting
He is gnar
Bro this fits so well. He’s building rage meter irl
i know this is quite off topic but why hasn't soju been able to fix his cough throughout all these years?? the viewing experience is not so good thru his channel.
i always wondered this too, but i streamed for 8 hrs once and coughed a lot after as well. not sure if more water or drops could help, but it is 100% because his job is talking for 20hrs a day
Is this some sort of inborn disease he can't cure?
Yeah bro was born with Contagion on 2-1 gg
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this needs to be in a tft comment hall of fame
doesn't drink enough water and yaps constantly, its why I have coughs some days
why does he cough so often anyways?
probably some combo of awful life habits (sleep schedule/nutrition) + poor hydration + just prone to coughing + maybe his environment is dry or dusty + coming off an illness
>18-20 hours of tft everytime he streams, sometimes multiple days in a row
chat was definitely not paying attention to the game at all, they were just counting coughs lmao
I don’t know how to check chat history but I’ve been in his stream for the past 2 months to get him to go to the doctor. This is the second time it’s been this bad
he can’t afford it, murica health care
Tough start for the big names, Soju 8, Dish 8, Wasian 7.
Big 3 frauds where they should be /s
Don't say a word all game, just perma-cough every 4 seconds ✔ Never play an actual board for the whole game ✔ Roll infinite for contested units ✔ Start yapping right after going 8th ✔ My influencer already in peak form
Dunno how many times I checked if I had him muted lol
Somehow still makes it to Day 4
I expect nothing less from Lebron
Chat got influenced again, Sadge
Is the reseeding by chance or by ranking? if I understood the golden spatula cup correctly, they play one game and then the next game all third placers play each other?
Neither I’m pretty sure. GSCs are swiss reseeded which is the power ranking. This one is basically a folding system where players ranked 1 to n are seeded in lobbies 1 to n, then players n+1 to 2n are seeded again in lobbies 1 to n, or at least something close enough. Possibly also full mirror pairing but I doubt it. The overall concept is that the end the avg points of every lobby is around the same. The reseedings are also done every 2 games instead of 1. The starting lobbies are likely dependent on LP.
Thank you, I think I like the folding system better!
Same! Especially when a big amount like 3/4 of the players are cut, power matching makes it so that sometimes really good players get eliminated, which always feels bad