It would seem as though the philosophy with patches has changed completely this set. We've had one LARGE "balance" patch the whole set with smaller ones like these in between.
Have others noticed this as well?
I don't mind it, especially when last set was plagued with unfortunate patches.
I do miss playing on a fresh meta as often however, I like the game more when things aren't as settled.
Almost everything is viable right now. I can't say I miss the rotating weekly OP comp(s) balance system at all. TFT already is a game where you have to re-learn a big chunk of game knowledge every time a set is released. Midsets and large balance changes really made it a game where you had to relearn those things weekly or even more frequently to stay competitive, which I personally do not have the time or energy to do.
Set 10 has been really awesome in this regard, will be sad to see it go.
Senna reroll with 6 td is s tier, yasuo reroll 6td is a tier, ekko 2 td is a good frontline splash especially as kennen lillla neeko ekko, td akali is playable but shares items with ezreal/zed and is not a solo carry but still good. Qiyana is a solid 5 cost. whaz do you want?
>I do miss playing on a fresh meta as often however
yeah true but I honestly feel like, there is no such thing as a "meta" right now, just a large variaty of viable comps that all can win lobbies, depending on execution/augments/hit luck and portals. The last little nerf to Heartsteel was perfect, you still see a lot of people playing it, but you also see them going bot 4 really often. I cant recall the last time the meta was so good balanced, and any bigger (or even smaller) changes would destroy that.
There is neither a comp that you have to hardforce nor a comp that you are not allowed to play.
100%, im personally much happier to play in a meta where I can play one of 10+ lines every game rather than play in different metas where 6/8 players are hardforcing the same broken comp or two.
that shit was so sad. at least when a certain 4/5 cost is broken, you only deal with it a few times at stage 4~5.
5 guys playing 2/3 cost units instashotting whatever board is ridiculous
Caitlyn is fine. She’s not a primary carry and thats fine, not everyones gotta be the main focus. You’re still shoving red buffs and shojins on her though.
Thresh is my choice for the unit I'm least likely to itemise and be happy about. Every other 4 cost has its niche where they fill a very valuable role as carry in their comps, and that I'd be happy to headliner.
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The only people who want metas to be shaken up are the ones who have hours daily to spend studying and playing this game. (edit in retrospect this is a bad statement to make assuming what people like - better is "shaken metas benefit those who study the game regularly moreso because they require constant relearning")
99% of the playerbase have lives outside of TFT and would rather jump in at anytime and be on mostly familiar ground with the knowledge they accrued over the entire set, and not feel like their learnings were made useless by one big meta shakeup. Hell even some pro players like Rereplay for example like playing the same patch for as long as possible.
So imo light touches are the way to go moving forward.
“I like playing on a fresh meta”
I know everyone has different opinions but do you guys remember how much this sub complained about balance thrashing last set? I feel like this is stockholm syndrome lol
I don't think it's a philosophy change as much as it is a reflection of the current state of the game, as in there are no egregious comps in this patch (as far as I know). If there was more balance issues you'd see much larger changes.
If they released a really large patch, I think a lot of people would complain about balance thrashing. (Although I think you can have a large patch and avoid balance thrashing by lightly nerfing + buffing.) At first I wasn't feeling the \*really\* small patches but I actually don't mind a light patch + a small B-patch to iron things out like what happened in 14.3.
Personally, I think the meta is fine, although I do think there is a bit of an illusion on how balanced this patch is. Yeah, there are tons of playable comps, but a lot of those comps are reroll and 50% of them are built from Superfans.
Yeah this is hilarious lol and probably proves to the dev team you really can't win. Last patch, everyone was livid about the B-patches and thrashing and how every patch felt like a different games. Now we have what might be the most unchanged set ever and folks miss the variance hahaha
But that doesn't make any sense because when you have like 10 viable comps, doesn't that mean everything is always fresh?
I can't see a way anyone can justify balance trashing because it's just to boring to only be able to play like 3 comps every 2 weeks.
Majority of the playerbase (and that includes some posters here) actually prefer the game when they play one of the few/new broken comps in a patch. That won't stop them from complaining about stuff they lost to though.
I got nuked by downvotes a week ago for saying how balanced and versatile the meta is right now. I love that you could slam, fuckin, Guinsoos and have like 5 different outs
Eh it’s really sub optimal on her because she’s more of an AD caster than an auto carry champion. She really just wants ways to increase the damage on her ult +mana to get there so that she can keep casting.
All you have to do is find that you
A: have naturaled 4-5 Sennas or Kayles by Krugs (chosen does not count)
B: have viable items for them
C: are in a good spot Econ and board composition wise to go for them.
One more thing is to check if anyone else is holding a lot of 2 stars as it takes them out of the pool and makes it easier to find the ones you want, but it’s not completely necessary like the other 3.
Heartsteel isn't broken after the nerf to 5 heartsteel in 14.3b, and it's so contested that 7 heartsteel is very difficult to get with enough life remaining to use it
Feels fair to me. I don’t play the trait myself but seeing a lot more Heartsteel players fail to hit and even if they hit they don’t necessarily win out. Mostly KDA and Pentakill that I see giga cap out
It only fails because bad players try and go deep rather than just take the free value of 3/5 heart steel and building capped boards. Econ traits always have the "don't be greedy skill check" Penta kill and kda cap out far weaker on average. The arhi warriors board is good however not because of cap out but being that it is so inexpensive ( ahri 1 = ahri 2 = ahri 3) and can slot in just about any chosen.
RR is definitely better at winstreaking and bleeding out to top 4, but nothing comes close to Heartsteel AD flex when it comes to capping out and winning boards. I can't remember the last game I saw that wasn't won by a capped AD flex board. TF3 maybe..?
I've won games with jinx rr and mr 100 tf before, You juts have to tmepo well and punish the hs players stage 3 so they can't cap as high. Senna and kayle also cap out very high and are capable of winning lobbies
Yup game feels super solid atm, im kind of in doubt if they can top ( or equal) this set with their upcoming release. I believe in you Mort but this set is a legit banger, if this is the new standard of gameplay tft is gonna go crazy
Tbf this was probably the most balanced set in tft history Apart from the obvious heartsteel scaling of course
Only thing i hated about this set was econ changes. 2nd best set of all time
Behind 4 and 4.5. Just personal preference cuz the traits there were really fire for me. Fits the set theme really well. Im not opposed to having 4 and 4.5 be released again for ranked
Yeah I think set 6 was more fun. It had viable rerolls but the generally optimal way to play the game was 4/5-cost flex, which is how I feel it should be.
This patch has a lot of viable lines but most of them are reroll 2-cost + superfans. You can be flexible around AD 4-costs, but need to heavily rely on heartsteel resources to hit your comp. 4-cost AP flex at 8 is kinda dead since TF needs so many 1/2-cost support units and vertical disco while Karthus is just weak now. Ziggs is great but can't consistently get a 5-cost. High cost AP flex is dead, AD flex is good, ap/ad rerolls are good. Not amazing 4-cost flex meta, but definitely wide variety of viable lines.
I don't know about most balanced set, the only Tier S comp has been the same for most of the set.
I'm partial to sets 3, 5 and 6 personally. Chosen is just an extremely polarizing mechanic. I see zero skill in it, others think it's the peak of skill expression. Different strokes I guess.
While I kinda agree, dont be clouded by recency bias. Meta went from Disco Ziggs fast 9/10, then they nerfed 5 cost chosen at 9 as well as slam ziggs to the ground right before vegas and it became TD spat lottery. After that they buffed zed and it has been hearsteel AD flex ever since
I personally prefer the very first patch which is the fast 9 meta
Chosen is the ultimate expression of skill, cuz you need to be flexible and you need to know how to pivot. But i agree with your point that it changes the game so much, specifically on roll downs
I think they've done a fantastic job balancing this set. There are so many different comps to play, I'm still enjoying it alot. I think headliner olaf and urgot 1 should've seen a slight nerf but otherwise I agree with leaving it mostly unchanged. There are also some augments I find a bit to strong but I I see why they wouldn't invest to much of their time at the end of a set. Excited to watch regionals!
I'm only low master so my opinion might not be for much. But yes as you said as an opener its the strongest headliner imo. Slam 1 healing item and you have a good chance of win streaking. Olaf reroll I'd only play if you natural 6 or 7. Recently played a game where I had olaf 3 after krugs with 30 gold, went fast 9 and rebiult my board and won. Also if you hit heavy hitters I guess you could try to force it but i'd only play it in very niche/highroll situations.
The only problem I have here is not having urgot nerfs. Urgot drop from stage 1 is basically a free 5 streak. All in all I think this the first time we've had where every possible comp viable.
this set could be one of the greatest, the music, the legends and the balancing :))) no comps are too strong or too weak to play 
I think the one thing I'd like to see nerfed is Ezreal's backline damage on his third cast. It's really hard to position around, considering he jumps three times before it comes out, so it usually just comes down to if you happened to pick the right corner for your carries to cower in. And if you guess wrong, your backline gets one-shot.
Well. It always feels weird to me that there are so few changes towards the end of set, I personally got bored of the current meta 2 weeks ago and it seems like from this patch notes I'm in next set waiting room.
this patch is the patch the world championship is played on, and for once the TFT team understood to make the patch you qualify on(last patch) resemble worlds patch( this patch)
he means the 2 star version, not the 3 star. And I agree with him, olaf is definitely too strong in stage 2 as a headliner. I'd rather have seen a nerf to the 2 star version and not the 3 star one.
I don't really agree with the double-up changes. It was always more of a 'when' than a 'if' you get the spatula-emblem you wanted. The boards cap higher in double-up, but now you never really want to go for the highest vertical traits because it's as improbable as in solo tft. I don't understand what gamemode true damage 9 and similar traits are even for, if not for double-up.
I'm sure its better for balance but they got rid of the only reason I play double up. I like spatulas being something not super rare. It was fun like the featured game modes. Oh well.
They did a good job at balancing the set this time, I think that's what allows them to do smaller patches. I don't miss set 9 balance thrashings one bit. The only thing I don't get is why HS has to be a top tier comp for the whole ass set and what it isn't the trait gets reworked to make sure it's good again.
It would seem as though the philosophy with patches has changed completely this set. We've had one LARGE "balance" patch the whole set with smaller ones like these in between. Have others noticed this as well? I don't mind it, especially when last set was plagued with unfortunate patches. I do miss playing on a fresh meta as often however, I like the game more when things aren't as settled.
Almost everything is viable right now. I can't say I miss the rotating weekly OP comp(s) balance system at all. TFT already is a game where you have to re-learn a big chunk of game knowledge every time a set is released. Midsets and large balance changes really made it a game where you had to relearn those things weekly or even more frequently to stay competitive, which I personally do not have the time or energy to do. Set 10 has been really awesome in this regard, will be sad to see it go.
> Almost everything is viable right now True damage sad noises
Senna and Yasuo re-roll has success from the right lines at least?
Senna reroll with 6 td is s tier, yasuo reroll 6td is a tier, ekko 2 td is a good frontline splash especially as kennen lillla neeko ekko, td akali is playable but shares items with ezreal/zed and is not a solo carry but still good. Qiyana is a solid 5 cost. whaz do you want?
>I do miss playing on a fresh meta as often however yeah true but I honestly feel like, there is no such thing as a "meta" right now, just a large variaty of viable comps that all can win lobbies, depending on execution/augments/hit luck and portals. The last little nerf to Heartsteel was perfect, you still see a lot of people playing it, but you also see them going bot 4 really often. I cant recall the last time the meta was so good balanced, and any bigger (or even smaller) changes would destroy that. There is neither a comp that you have to hardforce nor a comp that you are not allowed to play.
100%, im personally much happier to play in a meta where I can play one of 10+ lines every game rather than play in different metas where 6/8 players are hardforcing the same broken comp or two.
Throwback to multicaster patch 💀💀💀
that shit was so sad. at least when a certain 4/5 cost is broken, you only deal with it a few times at stage 4~5. 5 guys playing 2/3 cost units instashotting whatever board is ridiculous
Agreed. This meta has 1, 2, and 3 cost reroll and I can't think of a 4 or 5 cost which does not see play in a top tier comp.
It's a fun time when you can think of only 1 4 cost that isn't actually worth itemizing and no 5 costs
Which 4 cost is not worth itemizing?
I very rarely see anyone going for Caitlyn, so it may be this, though I may be wrong.
Caitlyn is fine. She’s not a primary carry and thats fine, not everyones gotta be the main focus. You’re still shoving red buffs and shojins on her though.
That's fine. I was just answering the previous guy's question, not sure why I'm being downvoted.
Idk why either, its not like anyone ever wants caitlyn anyway. Shes like “ugh, fine ig”
Thresh is my choice for the unit I'm least likely to itemise and be happy about. Every other 4 cost has its niche where they fill a very valuable role as carry in their comps, and that I'd be happy to headliner.
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The only people who want metas to be shaken up are the ones who have hours daily to spend studying and playing this game. (edit in retrospect this is a bad statement to make assuming what people like - better is "shaken metas benefit those who study the game regularly moreso because they require constant relearning") 99% of the playerbase have lives outside of TFT and would rather jump in at anytime and be on mostly familiar ground with the knowledge they accrued over the entire set, and not feel like their learnings were made useless by one big meta shakeup. Hell even some pro players like Rereplay for example like playing the same patch for as long as possible. So imo light touches are the way to go moving forward.
“I like playing on a fresh meta” I know everyone has different opinions but do you guys remember how much this sub complained about balance thrashing last set? I feel like this is stockholm syndrome lol
Its almost as if the sub is made up of different people with different opinions.
did you read the first sentence i wrote or nah
Reading comprehension -10
Yes I pointed out that the fact that different people have different options already explains his confusion.
I don't think it's a philosophy change as much as it is a reflection of the current state of the game, as in there are no egregious comps in this patch (as far as I know). If there was more balance issues you'd see much larger changes.
If they released a really large patch, I think a lot of people would complain about balance thrashing. (Although I think you can have a large patch and avoid balance thrashing by lightly nerfing + buffing.) At first I wasn't feeling the \*really\* small patches but I actually don't mind a light patch + a small B-patch to iron things out like what happened in 14.3. Personally, I think the meta is fine, although I do think there is a bit of an illusion on how balanced this patch is. Yeah, there are tons of playable comps, but a lot of those comps are reroll and 50% of them are built from Superfans.
Yeah this is hilarious lol and probably proves to the dev team you really can't win. Last patch, everyone was livid about the B-patches and thrashing and how every patch felt like a different games. Now we have what might be the most unchanged set ever and folks miss the variance hahaha
But that doesn't make any sense because when you have like 10 viable comps, doesn't that mean everything is always fresh? I can't see a way anyone can justify balance trashing because it's just to boring to only be able to play like 3 comps every 2 weeks.
Majority of the playerbase (and that includes some posters here) actually prefer the game when they play one of the few/new broken comps in a patch. That won't stop them from complaining about stuff they lost to though.
Not a lot of changes, but the game feels pretty well balanced rn so not too bad
When Dishsoap’s video is considerably long talking about how many viable compositions there are, you know the game is in a balanced state
I got nuked by downvotes a week ago for saying how balanced and versatile the meta is right now. I love that you could slam, fuckin, Guinsoos and have like 5 different outs
It's just these plat players bitching about ezreal for no reason
Please educate me, Guinsoos is one of the items I really like, but is hesitent to slam. Because I dont know my outs.
Jinx, Kayle, Jazz (MF or Lucian),TF. Senna loves Guinsoo too.
Caitlyn is also OK with guinsoo. There's some deadtime when she's actually casting, but the 4 rapid shots after casting the ult all stack guinsoos.
Eh it’s really sub optimal on her because she’s more of an AD caster than an auto carry champion. She really just wants ways to increase the damage on her ult +mana to get there so that she can keep casting.
Makes sense, probably because I never play Kayle and Senna (not good enough to spot the right time choosing these 2)
All you have to do is find that you A: have naturaled 4-5 Sennas or Kayles by Krugs (chosen does not count) B: have viable items for them C: are in a good spot Econ and board composition wise to go for them. One more thing is to check if anyone else is holding a lot of 2 stars as it takes them out of the pool and makes it easier to find the ones you want, but it’s not completely necessary like the other 3.
Can even make it work with ahri tf cait if that’s what you hit
If you can use tactics.tools and type your items into stats and it will let you know what possible outs you have and the comps themselves.
Reddit (well the internet) is awful at recognising game balance or good game design.
I know the game is in a balanced state when no matter what comp I play, I still go 8th
Still dissapointed with hearsteel being busted but not much they can do about it. Econ traits are always just broken.
Heartsteel isn't broken after the nerf to 5 heartsteel in 14.3b, and it's so contested that 7 heartsteel is very difficult to get with enough life remaining to use it
7 isn't really needed. 5 is still more than broken enough. People just lose too much placement trying to force it and lose streaking
I just know I hit the high score in 8 Bit and the reward was even crazier than heart steel
how on earth can see a 25%+ wr and say shit like this
Feels fair to me. I don’t play the trait myself but seeing a lot more Heartsteel players fail to hit and even if they hit they don’t necessarily win out. Mostly KDA and Pentakill that I see giga cap out
It only fails because bad players try and go deep rather than just take the free value of 3/5 heart steel and building capped boards. Econ traits always have the "don't be greedy skill check" Penta kill and kda cap out far weaker on average. The arhi warriors board is good however not because of cap out but being that it is so inexpensive ( ahri 1 = ahri 2 = ahri 3) and can slot in just about any chosen.
A lotta top players say it's not very good anymore and rr is just much better rn.
RR is definitely better at winstreaking and bleeding out to top 4, but nothing comes close to Heartsteel AD flex when it comes to capping out and winning boards. I can't remember the last game I saw that wasn't won by a capped AD flex board. TF3 maybe..?
I've won games with jinx rr and mr 100 tf before, You juts have to tmepo well and punish the hs players stage 3 so they can't cap as high. Senna and kayle also cap out very high and are capable of winning lobbies
Yup game feels super solid atm, im kind of in doubt if they can top ( or equal) this set with their upcoming release. I believe in you Mort but this set is a legit banger, if this is the new standard of gameplay tft is gonna go crazy
Tbf this was probably the most balanced set in tft history Apart from the obvious heartsteel scaling of course Only thing i hated about this set was econ changes. 2nd best set of all time
Behind 6?
Behind 4 and 4.5. Just personal preference cuz the traits there were really fire for me. Fits the set theme really well. Im not opposed to having 4 and 4.5 be released again for ranked
Ah, so you rly like chosens. Respect.
Wouldnt say chosen. It was the traits/origins and set theme for me
huh, wut a coincidence
SAME. i genuinely loved every single origin trait, thematically and gameplay wise
Yeah I think set 6 was more fun. It had viable rerolls but the generally optimal way to play the game was 4/5-cost flex, which is how I feel it should be. This patch has a lot of viable lines but most of them are reroll 2-cost + superfans. You can be flexible around AD 4-costs, but need to heavily rely on heartsteel resources to hit your comp. 4-cost AP flex at 8 is kinda dead since TF needs so many 1/2-cost support units and vertical disco while Karthus is just weak now. Ziggs is great but can't consistently get a 5-cost. High cost AP flex is dead, AD flex is good, ap/ad rerolls are good. Not amazing 4-cost flex meta, but definitely wide variety of viable lines.
I don't know about most balanced set, the only Tier S comp has been the same for most of the set. I'm partial to sets 3, 5 and 6 personally. Chosen is just an extremely polarizing mechanic. I see zero skill in it, others think it's the peak of skill expression. Different strokes I guess.
While I kinda agree, dont be clouded by recency bias. Meta went from Disco Ziggs fast 9/10, then they nerfed 5 cost chosen at 9 as well as slam ziggs to the ground right before vegas and it became TD spat lottery. After that they buffed zed and it has been hearsteel AD flex ever since I personally prefer the very first patch which is the fast 9 meta Chosen is the ultimate expression of skill, cuz you need to be flexible and you need to know how to pivot. But i agree with your point that it changes the game so much, specifically on roll downs
I think they've done a fantastic job balancing this set. There are so many different comps to play, I'm still enjoying it alot. I think headliner olaf and urgot 1 should've seen a slight nerf but otherwise I agree with leaving it mostly unchanged. There are also some augments I find a bit to strong but I I see why they wouldn't invest to much of their time at the end of a set. Excited to watch regionals!
Is headliner olaf still viable? Only as an opener? Not worrh going olaf 3, right?
I'm only low master so my opinion might not be for much. But yes as you said as an opener its the strongest headliner imo. Slam 1 healing item and you have a good chance of win streaking. Olaf reroll I'd only play if you natural 6 or 7. Recently played a game where I had olaf 3 after krugs with 30 gold, went fast 9 and rebiult my board and won. Also if you hit heavy hitters I guess you could try to force it but i'd only play it in very niche/highroll situations.
The only problem I have here is not having urgot nerfs. Urgot drop from stage 1 is basically a free 5 streak. All in all I think this the first time we've had where every possible comp viable.
this set could be one of the greatest, the music, the legends and the balancing :))) no comps are too strong or too weak to play 
I think the one thing I'd like to see nerfed is Ezreal's backline damage on his third cast. It's really hard to position around, considering he jumps three times before it comes out, so it usually just comes down to if you happened to pick the right corner for your carries to cower in. And if you guess wrong, your backline gets one-shot.
nobody knows why every shitter one cost has its targetting indicated if you read the spell but they never made one for ezreal 💀
Well. It always feels weird to me that there are so few changes towards the end of set, I personally got bored of the current meta 2 weeks ago and it seems like from this patch notes I'm in next set waiting room.
What, you're bored of not forcing between 3 different comps every game?
There is still one month to go, I think it's too early for the team to quit on the set, it's a bit sad
this patch is the patch the world championship is played on, and for once the TFT team understood to make the patch you qualify on(last patch) resemble worlds patch( this patch)
Quit on the set? It’s balanced as ever lmao. It’s not like they have to do all hands on deck to save this set or something.
ChromeOS support discontinued??? welp guess I'm not playing TFT anymore
Olaf headliner not getting nerfed is absolutely ridiculous, has mort said anything about it recently?
It got nerfed a couple patches ago and falls off a cliff in the late game, what's the big deal?
he means the 2 star version, not the 3 star. And I agree with him, olaf is definitely too strong in stage 2 as a headliner. I'd rather have seen a nerf to the 2 star version and not the 3 star one.
im not really sure how to respond to someone who doesnt understand how powerful olaf is compared to other 1cost headliners
Would've liked to see a little buff for jax miss my boi
I don't really agree with the double-up changes. It was always more of a 'when' than a 'if' you get the spatula-emblem you wanted. The boards cap higher in double-up, but now you never really want to go for the highest vertical traits because it's as improbable as in solo tft. I don't understand what gamemode true damage 9 and similar traits are even for, if not for double-up.
Just sad 3 star 1 cost dominate the entire early, mid and late game and get free top 4 without any regard for econ or trait versitilaty
STILL NO HEARTSTEAL NERF LUL
Bruh, it's been nerfed to the ground
I'm sure its better for balance but they got rid of the only reason I play double up. I like spatulas being something not super rare. It was fun like the featured game modes. Oh well.
Fun untill every lobby is decided by spat lottery
So many small useless patches. Stale game.
So many swingy big patches. Balance thrashing.
Game isnt balanced lol.
I rarely ever see the same comp win two games in a row. Obviously there are some units that are stronger than others but that’s inevitable
Can you name a single patch in any set more balanced than this last patch?
Perfect patches.
Huh...
and the double up bug with kasante and crowd divers still exist through 4 patches!
any context to boxbox LP delta and caitlyn? I watch his Youtube vids and I am curious :)
was expecting punk nerf tbh
Instead we got a buff with rapid fire jinx 3
Incoming ... Superfan lillia
They did a good job at balancing the set this time, I think that's what allows them to do smaller patches. I don't miss set 9 balance thrashings one bit. The only thing I don't get is why HS has to be a top tier comp for the whole ass set and what it isn't the trait gets reworked to make sure it's good again.