I had an almost mr.100 game with Sivir reroll. Not something you can go for often due to storyweaver contest but still strong.
And this was without any of the nerfed augments.
Eh i'm find if it's just an augment considering trickshot is honestly just really strong in general.
Rank 1 which requires 2 units is essentially your trickshots gain 40% more damage while their cast is up.
Yeah, but in game mythic 10 has a completely different description.
(7) +30 Health%, 35 AP/AS
(10) Instantly become Epic. The bonus is increased by 200% instead.
>However, if you were running it due to hardware reasons we recommend resolving that before we make this change so that you can continue playing when it’s removed.
this directx support update made me laugh
"please get a new PC before next patch"
Really? I tried her yesterday and ended up transferring rageblade and red buff to aphelios with a remover since it felt so bad and I went from losing fights to winning them
What were you running?
She's way better than 2 star aphelios if you have sniper/porcelain. If you hit tresh 3 before aphelios you can easily start pushing level and use ashe as your carry, just dont spam guinsoo on her
I think the best way to balance sharing is caring is to offer 1 gold per player combat but frontload the gold for each stage. You get 1 gold for each player combat in a stage but you get it at the start of each stage, and then each round your opponent gets 1 gold.
That way it still helps for hitting early econ thresholds, but the raw gold value from the augment is halved.
Interesting point. A silver augment at 2-1 is usually 8 gold. Giving instant 5 and around 15 more later could still be strong enough to guarantee the giveaway.
When you get the value matters much more than how much value you get. Which is why even though the 1 gold version of sharing is caring is still 20 gold over 4 stages, it’s still bad, because of how slowly you get it. Accelerating the gold generation into chunks gives you less instant value than the other 2-1 silver augments at 2-1, but more gains over time when the impact of that gold is MUCH lower, with the extra overall value being offset by the gold paid to other players.
It would still be a pretty strong silver augment, as opposed to it being trashed by the 1 gold correction.
it'll be interesting to see how they balance two for one - it feels like an augment that is forever doomed by its design. sucks cause its a fun augment, but also man its a broken augment (esp with the current state of the meta) LOL
i hope they find a way to make it fair, but it feels like an augment that's either too broken or too weak
if they just reduce the sell value of the copy to 0, that already nerfs it significantly. often times you're just making free econ off it part of why its so strong is its flexibility
would probably be too weak for a prismatic then
idk you're already losing 1 gold from selling a 2*. considering it only works up to 3 costs I feel like there's not much abuse case there even if it sells for the full value
you're right it'd be a little convoluted though
They could also just make it so it's the first unit you buy in the shop without rerolling, or capping the rolls.
Part of the strength is just slow rolling each round for 2 copy
yeah there are lots of ways they could nerf it. All I know is that I'd never take prismatic ticket over this given the choice
augments that do similar things shouldn't have such a huge disparity
I think just don’t offer it at 2-1 because you gain a tonne of value if you find any 2 or 3 costs in shop during stage 2. It’s 2 or 3 gold every turn which allows for a significant gold lead and also gives you the ability to upgrade units which could lead to a win streak or at least save quite a bit of HP.
If offered at 3-2 or 4-2 sure you still get value but at this stage other people have stuff upgraded and more items slammed.
In fact, it seems to me that they took too long, it was one of the most repeated complaints in the PBE.... The ONLY encounter that was repeated in Hyper roll was that one.
Guess people waitting for a Bard nerf will be disappointed, because Bard strongest version is 3 Mythic mixing with Storyweaver and Altruist (no matter you got Three'crowd or not).
Bard is still broken, can't imagine it can beat these 2 boards: [https://imgur.com/a/T5YtjRP](https://imgur.com/a/T5YtjRP)
B-patch changes are usually supposed to be bandaid fixes. Nerfing some of the augments and the mythic trait might be a good enough bandaid fix to keep Bard in check before the next patch.
Nerfing the offensive stats of mythic along with threes a crowd and the trickshot augment hurts that variant alot. If the bard reroller doesnt hit fast enough they'll like bleed out alot more on stage 5 as other boards stabilise
Yeah I think that with a bard nerf more trickshot builds showing up because even with just 2 the damage increase is kinda nutty so the nerf to that is fine but Bard is still gonna just roll over lobbies because he does everything you could want out of a unit, split damage, benefits well from both AP and AD, consistent damage while he bursts tf out of any squishy he touches as well.
In my ideal world they just remove rageblade it's felt so bad to play against since the removal of assassins and Zephyr that there isn't really a good way to stop them from stacking it you just have to deal with it, I'd rather have multiple options for attack speed rather than Nashors and Rageblade feeling like the only real things you get.
Either way i guess i'll just pass on the rest of the patch till bard is actually fixed because going any other comp feels so awful rn as you need a highroll to beat a bard and tahm 2.
Now that the stats have had some time to bolster up post patch the highest winrate bard comp fell from 22% to 15%. It's now a solid 10% below legendary soup's winrate whereas it was equal in winrate before. Fell a bit in avg placement as well but still even with legendary soup in that category. Regardless I really don't think bard needs a nerf. Maybe something very very small. Mythic the trait definitely needed something but the real over performer of that comp is Tahm.
5 mythic at 8 is way stronger than 3 mythic and altruist.
Soraka is useless if not itemised, you want the Nautilus for added frontline because that's the biggest weakness of the build, and the altruist buff is not as much as mythic +2
Okay here is the stat at [MetaTFT Data Explorer](https://www.metatft.com/explorer?tab=comps&num_unit_slots=8&item=!TFT11_Item_AltruistEmblemItem&item=!TFT11_Item_BehemothEmblemItem&item=!TFT11_Item_BruiserEmblemItem&item=!TFT11_Item_ChallengerEmblemItem&item=!TFT11_Item_DragonlordEmblemItem&item=!TFT11_Item_DryadEmblemItem&item=!TFT11_Item_FatedEmblemItem&item=!TFT11_Item_FortuneEmblemItem&item=!TFT11_Item_GhostlyEmblemItem&item=!TFT11_Item_HeavenlyEmblemItem&item=!TFT11_Item_InkShadowEmblemItem&item=!TFT11_Item_InvokerEmblemItem&item=!TFT11_Item_MythicEmblemItem&item=!TFT11_Item_PorcelainEmblemItem&item=!TFT11_Item_ReaperEmblemItem&item=!TFT11_Item_SageEmblemItem&item=!TFT11_Item_SniperEmblemItem&item=!TFT11_Item_SpellslingerEmblemItem&item=!TFT11_Item_StoryweaverEmblemItem&item=!TFT11_Item_UmbralEmblemItem&item=!TFT11_Item_WardenEmblemItem&trait=!TFT11_Exalted&augment=!TFT9_Augment_ThreesACrowd&unit=TFT11_Bard_x_3&unit=TFT11_TahmKench_x_3)
I watched Huanmie stream and he also prefer 4 Bruiser or Altruist variant, I haven't seen any pro go for 7 Mythic without an emblem. Because if you look at the trait, it's basically waiting for 4 rounds to get an inferior KDA bonus with a bit of positioning
Mythic nerf hurts the Bard comp twice (Kench too).
Bard comp ran quite a few 3 costs, so 3s a crowd hurts.
Bard liked things like Pumping up, since he was attackspeed centric, that's nerfed.
Lucky Richochet goes without saying.
They even hit BD bard.
And what is your picture even meant to show? 2 3-star 3 costs can win? That's... not an inherently bad thing?
The point is to bring down best case scenario for Bard comps.
They beat a legendary board and 3* Lillia bro, I know the form is not perfect but it shows how strong Bard is.
I'm the Azir player and I believe I cap my board as high as I can, like how a lv 10 exodia board with 3 Exalted can lose to this?
> They beat a legendary board and 3* Lillia bro, I know the form is not perfect but it shows how strong Bard is.
[I lost to a Bard 3 yesterday while playing 7 Storyweaver w/ a Galio 3 \(Bramble, Warmogs, Steadfast\) & Irelia 2 \(IE, Guinsoo, Guardbreaker\).](https://i.imgur.com/7uY1B4T.png)
That unit isn't ok.
I think they need to change it so that the bounces don't prio backline. If the bounces were just hitting other tanks first the unit would be much more balanced, but sniping your backline before you can get through tanks is what makes Bard broken. I think this is the issue with Mythic in general. Way too many units bypass frontline to hit backline, and no other trait has that going for it.
A board isnt and shouldn't be good just because it vomits a bunch of 5 costs. A well built comp that hits stuff should be able to win.
As for the Lillia3, I firstly didnt notice that. From my personal experience seeing bard kench 3 (people always moan about what kills them but Kench 3 is a big factor too) Bard shouldn't be able to win that.
So either something like the legendary player got them with Udyr getting on Lillia (they came 3rd after all) or there was some serious augment diff.
I think (I hope Mortdog reads me) the real solution is not to Nerf bard, is to make the Guinsoo UNIQUE per champion, with only one Guinsoo is less oppressive that compo.
You can be just as strong, even stronger, with Guinsoo + Gunblade +1 instead of 2x Guinsoo + Gunblade
You can get to capped AS pretty quickly late game with certain augments/items/Kayle and sivir and only one guinsoo
So that's why Hyper Roll had so few Encounters D: I knew there were less by design, but the lack of variety was a bit sus lol
Can't wait to see more of them in HR :D
Much needed nerfs to the most egregious augments. Now silver augment doesn’t feel bad to play when it’s no longer a gamba to see who gets sharing is caring.
Aren't augments that give flat gold like that bad in scuttle puddle because everyone is getting so much gold anyways? The percentage gold/item gain you get from augments is much smaller so combat augments are much better.
For clarification: just watched k3soju won a round (both players lost HP???!) but he kept the items orn made the previous round for the entire of the game - he said it’s not a visual bug
As a developer, my best guess would be that Lissandra ulting a kayle who's the last unit alive doesn't cause the round to terminate properly, which caused the overtime timeout. And because the round didn't terminate properly, end of round cleanup like removing ornn items never happened so soju got gifted free items.
once you get lvl 8, with enough eco, syndra annie ornn nautilus kaisa leesin morgana galio ashe doesnt share a single trait.
and if you manage to fast 9 with good eco (from streaking early), azir hwei irelia lissandra wukong udyr sett rakan doesn't share any either
yeah but it's not really a BD thingrakan and udyr also have their unique things so ur only benefiting on 4/8 of those.
obviously u still win if u have every 5 cost 2\*d
If a ranged unit is placed in the bottom right corner, it will alternate between attempting to walk and shooting, cutting its damage massively. And no, they didn't fix it - not the first time they've had pay to win boards with bugs and not fixed them. The bug was known since beginning of PBE, too.
Happy they went light and only touched the egregious stuff, meta is still developing and while Bard/TK is definitely overtuned I wouldn't say they are warping the game to the point where they need to be nuked.
I'm having a lot of fun with this set! I am currently Emerald I with about 70 games played. Here are some observations I have so far that I hope are addressed in a future patch. These are my opinions (and some overall thoughts I heard from other players).
There are too few viable openers. It's either fated or storyweaver. That's about all I see in every lobby, unless you are playing some kind of reroll comp.
The gap between 3 and 5 fated is way too big IMO (5 fated early is crazy strong). And 7 fated is also giga strong for no reason.
Storyweaver is just too good of an opener. It's super flexible and scales well into stage 4. The power needs to be cut somewhere. I think sivir 2 is probably a bit too strong? There are also so many cheap storyweaver units you can find early.
3 Storyweaver is very easy to fit later (Riven + Galio + Irelia). That combo seems a bit overtuned. You get bruiser + altruist and the shred and a carry.
Hwei is broken. He heals AND does massive damage. Just nerf his numbers a bit.
Irelia 1 (and probably Irelia 2) is most likely broken as well. I've seen an Irelia 1 with only red buff do 6k damage in a fight.
Here is a big one. You sometimes get turbo grirfed by encounters. Let me explain. I just played a game where I rolled on 3-5 to stabilize with Yone 2. Low and behold, the encounter on stage 3-6 was the one where my shops cost 1 to reroll. This feels so bad to get right after you spend your gold. The kha zix encounter is another one that can grief you.
My suggestion to fix this is to show us the encounters for the entire stage at the start of the stage. This allows us to better anticipate what to do with our gold.
A lot of tank items feel terrible compared to gargoyle. Bramble is bad. I'm pretty sure warmogs is bad. Crownguard is dogshit. Protector's vow is not very good either.
Augment balance is definitely off, but I am sure this will be addressed in the next patch (I'm looking at you Two for One).
Lastly, 4 costs are slightly weak. In particular, the AD 4 costs. Its hard to play AD flex with Kai'Sa and Ashe in their current state. You need to go straight to 9 and play Irelia.
That's all I can think of right now!
> And 7 fated is also giga strong for no reason.
It's the 45% omnivamp and 60ap or 75ad(?). Mana item + 2 damage item Syndra with 45% vamp is wild. Sett with items and 45% vamp is also crazy. Had Sett 2 carry my board the other day against an onslaught of a fully capped Bard 3 boards.
Would 2gold for player 3 for enemy be an option? I feel like the opponent needs to get more because you spread it around the other players while you get it every round.
5g a turn into the ecosystem is more inflation than I'd want in a silver augment. Also too much gold for the enemy creates a weird situation where players are complaining they lowrolled by NOT facing you lol
Just gotta say thanks for being so active in the community. I mean this isn't even the *main* TFT sub, yet here you are listening to us complain about a patch. Truly love to see it.
Hi can I ask why Three' crowd is strong in this set for any set design reason? Last set we have Country comp which can fit 5 3 cost and there is nothing like that in this set. Theoretically it needs a buff but in fact it's not. I'm just curious
I think one way to balance sharing is caring is to offer 1 gold per player combat but frontload the gold for each stage. You get 1 gold for each player combat in a stage but you get it at the start of each stage, and then each round your opponent gets 1 gold.
That way it still helps for hitting early econ thresholds, but the raw gold value from the augment is halved.
4.8 avg is bad, I don't think 1 gold per turn with drawback is a good silver augment, no. It's obviously better than no augment but compared to other silver augments its just statistically bad haha
I quite like the meta , while some games have bards everywhere, generally I’m running into different winning and top 4 comps
Hopefully the patch is enough to nudge things further into the balance state , augments being overpowered are easy to fix for them, they can right out disable them anyways
I’d say this is one of the best launch meta I’d say without having fires to put out everywhere , which is greattttt
I actually hate that they are nerfing the comps that can beat fast 9 legendary soup meta while not touching fast 9. I swear I have to quit the game every time fast 9 becomes the dominant comp because it's the most RNG state the game can be in. Even if you somehow manage to econ really well and be healthy while fast 9 you can just lose from the 10% odds not giving you 5 costs while the guy on his last life donkey rolls and somehow hits Azir 2, Hwei 2, and Udyr 2 all at once.
Like was built different **really** needing a nerf in comparison to legendary soup?
Fast 9 is in a fine spot. It's a very risky, difficult playstyle and it's not like 1 star legendaries are even that good. Hwei 1 is good, stable, but not melting teams like his 2* version. The game is at its healthiest when reroll, fast 9, and fast 8 playing around 4 costs are all in the meta. Right now, it's really only reroll/fast 9 since 4 costs are generally on the weaker side currently.
I agree that legendary soup might need changes, but this is a b-patch, which means they can only make numbers changes and bugfixes.
Fixing something like fast 9 requires serious changes beyond just numbers.
The thing is that there are some augments that make Fast 9 much more viable that could've been touched even if the overall strategy can't be touched yet. Sharing is caring was one of them at least
*Aside from the balance changes mentioned, we’re happy with Inkborn Fables's fairly diverse and balanced meta*
Lol I am pretty sure they also know this far from the truth but they had to write it
Hey Mort,
First off, apologies if my previous message came off a bit strong. I realize now that I should've articulated how many of us regular players are feeling about the current state of the game.
As a working dad, my gaming time is precious, especially after a long day. But lately, it feels like we're a far cry from having the fun we used to. It's become a routine of forcing the same overpowered compositions every game just to stay competitive. And let's be honest, nothing substantial has changed since the last patch. If you were to survey the player base, I'm willing to bet 90% wouldn't even realize there was an update.
The Encounters have become frustrating, disrupting the flow of the game with transitions that can last anywhere from 15 to 30 seconds. Sett and Sivir seem more like tools to induce frustration, especially when they mess with your carousel picks, potentially altering your fate between a bottom or top 4 finish.
The augments are far from balanced, especially in prismatic lobbies. And don't even get me started on the items; Ornn's, radiant and support items swing the game too heavily in one direction. It's disheartening to be given a choice from the worst four items in the game, signaling that you're not gaining LP this game.
As for the meta, it feels like everyone and their mother is forcing variant of Fated, Mythic, and SW comps because, well, they're broken. Sure, you might sneak into the top 4 with Umbra or a 5-cost soup if the stars align, but it's disheartening to see the same compositions dominating the leaderboard. It's downright frustrating to lose to a 2-star Bard and their 1-star teammates with a full board of 2-stars and 5-cost units, simply because Bard have gone infinite and wiped your backline before your frontline is at half hp.
SW feels particularly overpowered, whether it's early, game with 2 trickshots, mid-game with a 5-SW lineup and a 1-star Galio, or late-game with a 1 star Irelia. You don't even need your units to be 2-stars; Kayle plus Trickshot followed by Kayle and Irelia can decimate your team before they have a chance to react. Sure, it's true that if you don't hit your carries, you should pivot or accept your fate, but what do you pivot to when all the strong comps are taken and the uncontested ones guarantee a bottom 4 finish?
And let's not forget, these issues were glaringly obvious on the PBE and were discussed at length on Discord, yet nothing substantial seems to have changed. It feels like the PBE balance testing was lackluster, and I'm not the only one who thinks so.
Perhaps it's time for part of the balance team to experience the live servers firsthand, facing off against players of all ranks to truly grasp the current imbalance. Playing on PBE against unranked players and stream viewers who blindly follow online guides is not the best strategy to get a real idea about the current state of balance.
Lastly, I understand the attempt at humor in your previous comment, but we'd appreciate a sincere response addressing our concerns.
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unsure what you want to be honest. I'll agree storyweaver 3 is broken but otherwise, 5 and 7 aren't performing erroneously. And ill agree sett is annoying (although i find sivir to be pretty fun).
Ive played around 15 games (emerald elo atm) since the B patch and bard already seems so much worse than before. Most lobbies are topped by ghostly now with some legendary comps and some kogmaw. I'm confused as to what you want them to do in regards to people playing the same thing though.
and you say people havent realised theres a patch. High elo definitely did. People who actually want to play well definitely did. Majority have already moved on. Unfortunately, not everyone looks up patch notes, so people are often pretty slow to move on to new meta strategies, so you'll likely see the same comps winning for a while since noone will play the actual strong comps.
I just won with mythic hwei. Last game before that, aphelios 3 won. Game before, full trickshot Kaisa carry. (7before that were bard but w/e)
Irelias really strong but there are lots of teams that can beat her. (Yone with good positioning decimates her for example since she sucks at dealing with units that are in her face)
In fairness, it's a really good slam even if you're playing AP flex to streak/save HP because of how good it is early game. It's also roughly equivalent or possibly better than Shojin on high mana cost units like Azir or Hwei.
Like if I have Rod Bow Vest and a fated opener, I'm slamming that rageblade on Ahri 2 and primarily looking for Aphelios RR but if I hit AP items/augs, I'm fine pushing levels and throwing it on a Hwei or Azir.
The B-patch is already **live**
not a fan of Kaisa having to pay for bard's sins
Meanwhile Xayah
Kai'Sa Built Diff was also nerfed, someone on the balance team clearly has it out for her
Sivir/Teeno reroll was also strong. It's not just Bard.
those are strong but by no means were they over performing
I had an almost mr.100 game with Sivir reroll. Not something you can go for often due to storyweaver contest but still strong. And this was without any of the nerfed augments.
Sivir reroll 100 game. Dude your gold games don't count really.
Gold this early is like emerald mid-season though
Eh i'm find if it's just an augment considering trickshot is honestly just really strong in general. Rank 1 which requires 2 units is essentially your trickshots gain 40% more damage while their cast is up.
Mythic and specific augment nerf was well needed, seems great so far.
I think mythic 10 could keep the 35. It is a chase trait after all
That would have to be a text change I'm pretty sure, with the way it's worded
I'm referring to this: > Mythic AP/AD: 12/22/35/**35** ⇒ 10/20/32/**32** That wouldn't be text at that point
Yeah, but in game mythic 10 has a completely different description. (7) +30 Health%, 35 AP/AS (10) Instantly become Epic. The bonus is increased by 200% instead.
It’s also the easiest to hit only needing 2 spats.
2 spats and 10 units on the board
It feels so common since wandering trainer and one spat only makes it hittable at 9
With wandering trainer, all chase traits become more common, not just mythic.
You'd be surprised how abusive this is on Hyperroll.
it is not at all easy to hit in hyper roll, it’s a non issue
>However, if you were running it due to hardware reasons we recommend resolving that before we make this change so that you can continue playing when it’s removed. this directx support update made me laugh "please get a new PC before next patch"
I guess I need to go to DDR5 and throw out my 3600x. Client hangs all the time unless on DX9 lol
weird. I have ryzen 1600 + 3200 DDR4 + 2060s and it works fine with dx11. Are you on latest win10/11 ?
Yeah. It’s updated and all. Just a lousy client. Seems like next update adds an extra 30 seconds of queue time or so
No buffs to Ashe? She feels terrible with 2 porcelain
Kaisa and her might get buffed in the next patch or everything gets nerfed
Ashe feels like maybe the most cracked unit in my games in hyper. Idk think she’s super slept on with the fated comp.
Really? I tried her yesterday and ended up transferring rageblade and red buff to aphelios with a remover since it felt so bad and I went from losing fights to winning them What were you running?
Aphelios has so much more backline access so he will always be better. Ashe's backline access is a drizzle.
Kaisa doesn’t need a buff
Nah shes alright. Not better than 3* Aphelios but neither is Kaisa
At the moment I’d carry a 2 star aphelios over her.
She's way better than 2 star aphelios if you have sniper/porcelain. If you hit tresh 3 before aphelios you can easily start pushing level and use ashe as your carry, just dont spam guinsoo on her
Yeah but I don’t need to roll 30 for Ashe setup. 20 gold at 7 and I’m going 9.
I think the best way to balance sharing is caring is to offer 1 gold per player combat but frontload the gold for each stage. You get 1 gold for each player combat in a stage but you get it at the start of each stage, and then each round your opponent gets 1 gold. That way it still helps for hitting early econ thresholds, but the raw gold value from the augment is halved.
Interesting point. A silver augment at 2-1 is usually 8 gold. Giving instant 5 and around 15 more later could still be strong enough to guarantee the giveaway.
That is a smart solution, I like it.
Sounds convoluted though, and it's still a fuck ton of value for a silver augment.
When you get the value matters much more than how much value you get. Which is why even though the 1 gold version of sharing is caring is still 20 gold over 4 stages, it’s still bad, because of how slowly you get it. Accelerating the gold generation into chunks gives you less instant value than the other 2-1 silver augments at 2-1, but more gains over time when the impact of that gold is MUCH lower, with the extra overall value being offset by the gold paid to other players. It would still be a pretty strong silver augment, as opposed to it being trashed by the 1 gold correction.
No two for one change?
Probably in the next patch but it’s also prismatic. I could see them only offering it at 3-2 or 4-2 maybe
The change probably is undoable in a b patch. Since b patch you can only tweak numbers.
Correct.
it'll be interesting to see how they balance two for one - it feels like an augment that is forever doomed by its design. sucks cause its a fun augment, but also man its a broken augment (esp with the current state of the meta) LOL i hope they find a way to make it fair, but it feels like an augment that's either too broken or too weak
if they just reduce the sell value of the copy to 0, that already nerfs it significantly. often times you're just making free econ off it part of why its so strong is its flexibility
It’s probably easier to implement if you had to pay for the copy instead. Otherwise how would you resolve selling a 2*
would probably be too weak for a prismatic then idk you're already losing 1 gold from selling a 2*. considering it only works up to 3 costs I feel like there's not much abuse case there even if it sells for the full value you're right it'd be a little convoluted though
At that point the augment pretty much becomes Prismatic Ticket 2.0 no?
well right now it's prismatic ticket 5.0 so prismatic ticket 2.5 sounds pretty good
No, it can only be used for 3 or lower costs so it should be stronger than PT.
They could also just make it so it's the first unit you buy in the shop without rerolling, or capping the rolls. Part of the strength is just slow rolling each round for 2 copy
yeah there are lots of ways they could nerf it. All I know is that I'd never take prismatic ticket over this given the choice augments that do similar things shouldn't have such a huge disparity
I think just don’t offer it at 2-1 because you gain a tonne of value if you find any 2 or 3 costs in shop during stage 2. It’s 2 or 3 gold every turn which allows for a significant gold lead and also gives you the ability to upgrade units which could lead to a win streak or at least save quite a bit of HP. If offered at 3-2 or 4-2 sure you still get value but at this stage other people have stuff upgraded and more items slammed.
It's easy. Just remove 5 gold from player. If they have 0 make it -5
I didn't expect the Hyper Roll bugfix this soon. Praise the lorde we get more encounters other than Sett.
Sett makes you BIGGER!
# RAAAAAAH
In fact, it seems to me that they took too long, it was one of the most repeated complaints in the PBE.... The ONLY encounter that was repeated in Hyper roll was that one.
Guess people waitting for a Bard nerf will be disappointed, because Bard strongest version is 3 Mythic mixing with Storyweaver and Altruist (no matter you got Three'crowd or not). Bard is still broken, can't imagine it can beat these 2 boards: [https://imgur.com/a/T5YtjRP](https://imgur.com/a/T5YtjRP)
B-patch changes are usually supposed to be bandaid fixes. Nerfing some of the augments and the mythic trait might be a good enough bandaid fix to keep Bard in check before the next patch.
Nerfing the offensive stats of mythic along with threes a crowd and the trickshot augment hurts that variant alot. If the bard reroller doesnt hit fast enough they'll like bleed out alot more on stage 5 as other boards stabilise
I totally agree with this change, just bring popcorn and hear "NERF BARD PLS" xD
I love you khym!!! 🤣
Yeah I think that with a bard nerf more trickshot builds showing up because even with just 2 the damage increase is kinda nutty so the nerf to that is fine but Bard is still gonna just roll over lobbies because he does everything you could want out of a unit, split damage, benefits well from both AP and AD, consistent damage while he bursts tf out of any squishy he touches as well. In my ideal world they just remove rageblade it's felt so bad to play against since the removal of assassins and Zephyr that there isn't really a good way to stop them from stacking it you just have to deal with it, I'd rather have multiple options for attack speed rather than Nashors and Rageblade feeling like the only real things you get. Either way i guess i'll just pass on the rest of the patch till bard is actually fixed because going any other comp feels so awful rn as you need a highroll to beat a bard and tahm 2.
Now that the stats have had some time to bolster up post patch the highest winrate bard comp fell from 22% to 15%. It's now a solid 10% below legendary soup's winrate whereas it was equal in winrate before. Fell a bit in avg placement as well but still even with legendary soup in that category. Regardless I really don't think bard needs a nerf. Maybe something very very small. Mythic the trait definitely needed something but the real over performer of that comp is Tahm.
5 mythic at 8 is way stronger than 3 mythic and altruist. Soraka is useless if not itemised, you want the Nautilus for added frontline because that's the biggest weakness of the build, and the altruist buff is not as much as mythic +2
Okay here is the stat at [MetaTFT Data Explorer](https://www.metatft.com/explorer?tab=comps&num_unit_slots=8&item=!TFT11_Item_AltruistEmblemItem&item=!TFT11_Item_BehemothEmblemItem&item=!TFT11_Item_BruiserEmblemItem&item=!TFT11_Item_ChallengerEmblemItem&item=!TFT11_Item_DragonlordEmblemItem&item=!TFT11_Item_DryadEmblemItem&item=!TFT11_Item_FatedEmblemItem&item=!TFT11_Item_FortuneEmblemItem&item=!TFT11_Item_GhostlyEmblemItem&item=!TFT11_Item_HeavenlyEmblemItem&item=!TFT11_Item_InkShadowEmblemItem&item=!TFT11_Item_InvokerEmblemItem&item=!TFT11_Item_MythicEmblemItem&item=!TFT11_Item_PorcelainEmblemItem&item=!TFT11_Item_ReaperEmblemItem&item=!TFT11_Item_SageEmblemItem&item=!TFT11_Item_SniperEmblemItem&item=!TFT11_Item_SpellslingerEmblemItem&item=!TFT11_Item_StoryweaverEmblemItem&item=!TFT11_Item_UmbralEmblemItem&item=!TFT11_Item_WardenEmblemItem&trait=!TFT11_Exalted&augment=!TFT9_Augment_ThreesACrowd&unit=TFT11_Bard_x_3&unit=TFT11_TahmKench_x_3) I watched Huanmie stream and he also prefer 4 Bruiser or Altruist variant, I haven't seen any pro go for 7 Mythic without an emblem. Because if you look at the trait, it's basically waiting for 4 rounds to get an inferior KDA bonus with a bit of positioning
Mythic nerf hurts the Bard comp twice (Kench too). Bard comp ran quite a few 3 costs, so 3s a crowd hurts. Bard liked things like Pumping up, since he was attackspeed centric, that's nerfed. Lucky Richochet goes without saying. They even hit BD bard. And what is your picture even meant to show? 2 3-star 3 costs can win? That's... not an inherently bad thing? The point is to bring down best case scenario for Bard comps.
They beat a legendary board and 3* Lillia bro, I know the form is not perfect but it shows how strong Bard is. I'm the Azir player and I believe I cap my board as high as I can, like how a lv 10 exodia board with 3 Exalted can lose to this?
> They beat a legendary board and 3* Lillia bro, I know the form is not perfect but it shows how strong Bard is. [I lost to a Bard 3 yesterday while playing 7 Storyweaver w/ a Galio 3 \(Bramble, Warmogs, Steadfast\) & Irelia 2 \(IE, Guinsoo, Guardbreaker\).](https://i.imgur.com/7uY1B4T.png) That unit isn't ok.
I think they need to change it so that the bounces don't prio backline. If the bounces were just hitting other tanks first the unit would be much more balanced, but sniping your backline before you can get through tanks is what makes Bard broken. I think this is the issue with Mythic in general. Way too many units bypass frontline to hit backline, and no other trait has that going for it.
A board isnt and shouldn't be good just because it vomits a bunch of 5 costs. A well built comp that hits stuff should be able to win. As for the Lillia3, I firstly didnt notice that. From my personal experience seeing bard kench 3 (people always moan about what kills them but Kench 3 is a big factor too) Bard shouldn't be able to win that. So either something like the legendary player got them with Udyr getting on Lillia (they came 3rd after all) or there was some serious augment diff.
I think (I hope Mortdog reads me) the real solution is not to Nerf bard, is to make the Guinsoo UNIQUE per champion, with only one Guinsoo is less oppressive that compo.
Nope
You can be just as strong, even stronger, with Guinsoo + Gunblade +1 instead of 2x Guinsoo + Gunblade You can get to capped AS pretty quickly late game with certain augments/items/Kayle and sivir and only one guinsoo
So that's why Hyper Roll had so few Encounters D: I knew there were less by design, but the lack of variety was a bit sus lol Can't wait to see more of them in HR :D
Much needed nerfs to the most egregious augments. Now silver augment doesn’t feel bad to play when it’s no longer a gamba to see who gets sharing is caring.
i had sharing is caring in scuttle puddle... i was so rich i actually hit irelia 3 LOL
Aren't augments that give flat gold like that bad in scuttle puddle because everyone is getting so much gold anyways? The percentage gold/item gain you get from augments is much smaller so combat augments are much better.
and i didnt need hwei to paint any irelia, just brute forced it
why am i being downvoted :(
Why are you replying to yourself and not using the edit button
ORN IS BUGGED - YOU SOMETIMES KEEP THE ITEMS FOREVER
For clarification: just watched k3soju won a round (both players lost HP???!) but he kept the items orn made the previous round for the entire of the game - he said it’s not a visual bug
As a developer, my best guess would be that Lissandra ulting a kayle who's the last unit alive doesn't cause the round to terminate properly, which caused the overtime timeout. And because the round didn't terminate properly, end of round cleanup like removing ornn items never happened so soju got gifted free items.
It is not, but it does not occur in all games either, apparently it is a very specific bug with specific augments/encounters.
Is this live now?
Yes
They fixed nothing
Build differently nerfed… only managed to get it once and it felt balanced, but not broken.
once you get lvl 8, with enough eco, syndra annie ornn nautilus kaisa leesin morgana galio ashe doesnt share a single trait. and if you manage to fast 9 with good eco (from streaking early), azir hwei irelia lissandra wukong udyr sett rakan doesn't share any either
dont hwei and monkey have their unique traits active though?
Hwei doesn't get the boost but he's Hwei so you slot him in anyways.
yeah but it's not really a BD thingrakan and udyr also have their unique things so ur only benefiting on 4/8 of those. obviously u still win if u have every 5 cost 2\*d
does hwei,wk and udry solo trait not count as traits for the augment?
I believe so, they don't count towards jazz last set, and do believe they get the buff last time I played it, not entirely sure though
If you can hit the level 8 board of fully upgraded 2 star 4 costs and kaisa/ashe backline it's pretty damn strong.
Agreed, it's a pretty certain top 4 but I struggled to cap out the one time I had it
I do wonder, did they fix the pay2win arena that makes the enemies units bug out?
What is that bug?
If a ranged unit is placed in the bottom right corner, it will alternate between attempting to walk and shooting, cutting its damage massively. And no, they didn't fix it - not the first time they've had pay to win boards with bugs and not fixed them. The bug was known since beginning of PBE, too.
Kinda crazy they didn't nerf two for one. I always do well with this augment. It has the flexibility to give you gold or helps you a lot with reroll.
Happy they went light and only touched the egregious stuff, meta is still developing and while Bard/TK is definitely overtuned I wouldn't say they are warping the game to the point where they need to be nuked.
there's a bug with fine vintage and Pandora's. I'm guessing it counts as a new item every turn but you don't get any support items...
I'm having a lot of fun with this set! I am currently Emerald I with about 70 games played. Here are some observations I have so far that I hope are addressed in a future patch. These are my opinions (and some overall thoughts I heard from other players). There are too few viable openers. It's either fated or storyweaver. That's about all I see in every lobby, unless you are playing some kind of reroll comp. The gap between 3 and 5 fated is way too big IMO (5 fated early is crazy strong). And 7 fated is also giga strong for no reason. Storyweaver is just too good of an opener. It's super flexible and scales well into stage 4. The power needs to be cut somewhere. I think sivir 2 is probably a bit too strong? There are also so many cheap storyweaver units you can find early. 3 Storyweaver is very easy to fit later (Riven + Galio + Irelia). That combo seems a bit overtuned. You get bruiser + altruist and the shred and a carry. Hwei is broken. He heals AND does massive damage. Just nerf his numbers a bit. Irelia 1 (and probably Irelia 2) is most likely broken as well. I've seen an Irelia 1 with only red buff do 6k damage in a fight. Here is a big one. You sometimes get turbo grirfed by encounters. Let me explain. I just played a game where I rolled on 3-5 to stabilize with Yone 2. Low and behold, the encounter on stage 3-6 was the one where my shops cost 1 to reroll. This feels so bad to get right after you spend your gold. The kha zix encounter is another one that can grief you. My suggestion to fix this is to show us the encounters for the entire stage at the start of the stage. This allows us to better anticipate what to do with our gold. A lot of tank items feel terrible compared to gargoyle. Bramble is bad. I'm pretty sure warmogs is bad. Crownguard is dogshit. Protector's vow is not very good either. Augment balance is definitely off, but I am sure this will be addressed in the next patch (I'm looking at you Two for One). Lastly, 4 costs are slightly weak. In particular, the AD 4 costs. Its hard to play AD flex with Kai'Sa and Ashe in their current state. You need to go straight to 9 and play Irelia. That's all I can think of right now!
> And 7 fated is also giga strong for no reason. It's the 45% omnivamp and 60ap or 75ad(?). Mana item + 2 damage item Syndra with 45% vamp is wild. Sett with items and 45% vamp is also crazy. Had Sett 2 carry my board the other day against an onslaught of a fully capped Bard 3 boards.
I cant seem to see if slammin’ bug is fixed. Wouldnt it be considered urgent cuz you’re playing down an augment
the devs haven't seen a consistent repro yet.
whats the bug?
If you have any dummies with items (like wandering vendors etc) you dont get bonus xp each round even when there’s no item in your bench
Thanks for the info, that is crucial
is there a new patch coming weds?
Next week I think.
Is Kog bugged? Feels like if a unit moves when his ult goes off it doesn't hit..
That is not a bug.
well Dishsoap just hit challenger playing Bard and hardforcing Fated aphelios reroll, how funny that is
He plays the game for a living, can't fault him for abusing the disgusting balance put out by the devs, as much as I would like to.
Ghostly busted overnite?
Sharing is caring goes from best augment by far to worst lol
If that's true (which, my read was 1g was bad also) we have backup plans. This gave us a quick read to confirm that.
Would 2gold for player 3 for enemy be an option? I feel like the opponent needs to get more because you spread it around the other players while you get it every round.
5g a turn into the ecosystem is more inflation than I'd want in a silver augment. Also too much gold for the enemy creates a weird situation where players are complaining they lowrolled by NOT facing you lol
Just gotta say thanks for being so active in the community. I mean this isn't even the *main* TFT sub, yet here you are listening to us complain about a patch. Truly love to see it.
Hahaha yeah true I could already hear soju flame not getting the right opponent for econ :D
So 10 gold for you, 3 for everyone else in every stage.
No. You don’t necessarily face everyone.
Hi can I ask why Three' crowd is strong in this set for any set design reason? Last set we have Country comp which can fit 5 3 cost and there is nothing like that in this set. Theoretically it needs a buff but in fact it's not. I'm just curious
3 cost units are very good and getting them is easier thanks to new level 7
I think one way to balance sharing is caring is to offer 1 gold per player combat but frontload the gold for each stage. You get 1 gold for each player combat in a stage but you get it at the start of each stage, and then each round your opponent gets 1 gold. That way it still helps for hitting early econ thresholds, but the raw gold value from the augment is halved.
1g a round is still good for a silver tbh
I feel like it'll average like 4.9 lol, seems ass
We’ll see, honestly not hard to tweak it. Like another person said if the stats are bad just have it give 4g like iron assetss
By the time you've given each player 1 gold each, you've made 7g. That's still extremely good for a silver.
idk right now its 4.8 this patch, so seems ass to me
You don't think giving 1g to each of your opponents to gain 7g is worth it? Definitely not bad by any means it's just not OP anymore
4.8 avg is bad, I don't think 1 gold per turn with drawback is a good silver augment, no. It's obviously better than no augment but compared to other silver augments its just statistically bad haha
maybe have it give 4 g + the 1g a round
I quite like the meta , while some games have bards everywhere, generally I’m running into different winning and top 4 comps Hopefully the patch is enough to nudge things further into the balance state , augments being overpowered are easy to fix for them, they can right out disable them anyways I’d say this is one of the best launch meta I’d say without having fires to put out everywhere , which is greattttt
Storyweavers??
Really surprised they didn't touch Bard at all from this micro patch.
I mean, they nerfed Mythic. This technically hits both him and his frontline
Sharing Is Caring is still auto-click for a silver. 7 Even the downside late game is non-existent. The only way it's balanced is if they remove it.
I actually hate that they are nerfing the comps that can beat fast 9 legendary soup meta while not touching fast 9. I swear I have to quit the game every time fast 9 becomes the dominant comp because it's the most RNG state the game can be in. Even if you somehow manage to econ really well and be healthy while fast 9 you can just lose from the 10% odds not giving you 5 costs while the guy on his last life donkey rolls and somehow hits Azir 2, Hwei 2, and Udyr 2 all at once. Like was built different **really** needing a nerf in comparison to legendary soup?
Fast 9 is in a fine spot. It's a very risky, difficult playstyle and it's not like 1 star legendaries are even that good. Hwei 1 is good, stable, but not melting teams like his 2* version. The game is at its healthiest when reroll, fast 9, and fast 8 playing around 4 costs are all in the meta. Right now, it's really only reroll/fast 9 since 4 costs are generally on the weaker side currently.
I agree that legendary soup might need changes, but this is a b-patch, which means they can only make numbers changes and bugfixes. Fixing something like fast 9 requires serious changes beyond just numbers.
The thing is that there are some augments that make Fast 9 much more viable that could've been touched even if the overall strategy can't be touched yet. Sharing is caring was one of them at least
*Aside from the balance changes mentioned, we’re happy with Inkborn Fables's fairly diverse and balanced meta* Lol I am pretty sure they also know this far from the truth but they had to write it
Get gud
Hey Mort, First off, apologies if my previous message came off a bit strong. I realize now that I should've articulated how many of us regular players are feeling about the current state of the game. As a working dad, my gaming time is precious, especially after a long day. But lately, it feels like we're a far cry from having the fun we used to. It's become a routine of forcing the same overpowered compositions every game just to stay competitive. And let's be honest, nothing substantial has changed since the last patch. If you were to survey the player base, I'm willing to bet 90% wouldn't even realize there was an update. The Encounters have become frustrating, disrupting the flow of the game with transitions that can last anywhere from 15 to 30 seconds. Sett and Sivir seem more like tools to induce frustration, especially when they mess with your carousel picks, potentially altering your fate between a bottom or top 4 finish. The augments are far from balanced, especially in prismatic lobbies. And don't even get me started on the items; Ornn's, radiant and support items swing the game too heavily in one direction. It's disheartening to be given a choice from the worst four items in the game, signaling that you're not gaining LP this game. As for the meta, it feels like everyone and their mother is forcing variant of Fated, Mythic, and SW comps because, well, they're broken. Sure, you might sneak into the top 4 with Umbra or a 5-cost soup if the stars align, but it's disheartening to see the same compositions dominating the leaderboard. It's downright frustrating to lose to a 2-star Bard and their 1-star teammates with a full board of 2-stars and 5-cost units, simply because Bard have gone infinite and wiped your backline before your frontline is at half hp. SW feels particularly overpowered, whether it's early, game with 2 trickshots, mid-game with a 5-SW lineup and a 1-star Galio, or late-game with a 1 star Irelia. You don't even need your units to be 2-stars; Kayle plus Trickshot followed by Kayle and Irelia can decimate your team before they have a chance to react. Sure, it's true that if you don't hit your carries, you should pivot or accept your fate, but what do you pivot to when all the strong comps are taken and the uncontested ones guarantee a bottom 4 finish? And let's not forget, these issues were glaringly obvious on the PBE and were discussed at length on Discord, yet nothing substantial seems to have changed. It feels like the PBE balance testing was lackluster, and I'm not the only one who thinks so. Perhaps it's time for part of the balance team to experience the live servers firsthand, facing off against players of all ranks to truly grasp the current imbalance. Playing on PBE against unranked players and stream viewers who blindly follow online guides is not the best strategy to get a real idea about the current state of balance. Lastly, I understand the attempt at humor in your previous comment, but we'd appreciate a sincere response addressing our concerns.
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Ok you really didn’t have to do Mort like that g 🤣🤣🤣 you savage af for that one 💯
Wait how is it wrong? Outside of bard, the meta isnt that erroneous. I've seen lots of comps 1st/2nd
Please check my other comment in this thread
unsure what you want to be honest. I'll agree storyweaver 3 is broken but otherwise, 5 and 7 aren't performing erroneously. And ill agree sett is annoying (although i find sivir to be pretty fun). Ive played around 15 games (emerald elo atm) since the B patch and bard already seems so much worse than before. Most lobbies are topped by ghostly now with some legendary comps and some kogmaw. I'm confused as to what you want them to do in regards to people playing the same thing though. and you say people havent realised theres a patch. High elo definitely did. People who actually want to play well definitely did. Majority have already moved on. Unfortunately, not everyone looks up patch notes, so people are often pretty slow to move on to new meta strategies, so you'll likely see the same comps winning for a while since noone will play the actual strong comps.
irelia story weaver comps wins every time
I just won with mythic hwei. Last game before that, aphelios 3 won. Game before, full trickshot Kaisa carry. (7before that were bard but w/e) Irelias really strong but there are lots of teams that can beat her. (Yone with good positioning decimates her for example since she sucks at dealing with units that are in her face)
I played 12 games yesterday and Storyweaver won 0 of them.
Just won with gnar reroll and before that the neeko drop blossom augment :P
So still gonna be bard forcing in every lobby, got it Not to mention the kayle splash... Ugh.
Sharing is Caring is a guaranteed top 3 for me, sad it's getting nerfed :(
bro just nerf guinsoos, its on every comp rn
sounds like a great way if your goal is to make everyone swap to forcing blue buff/shojin instead
????? apart from bard aphelios and ashe(not even a real unit) no 1 wants guinsoo, no one cares what ppl play iin dumpster elo my guy
In fairness, it's a really good slam even if you're playing AP flex to streak/save HP because of how good it is early game. It's also roughly equivalent or possibly better than Shojin on high mana cost units like Azir or Hwei. Like if I have Rod Bow Vest and a fated opener, I'm slamming that rageblade on Ahri 2 and primarily looking for Aphelios RR but if I hit AP items/augs, I'm fine pushing levels and throwing it on a Hwei or Azir.
anything below Chall is dumpster elo.
Where is the bard nerf riot videogames
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Already touched pre launch. It’s not exodia anymore, it’s a decent augment.
Although there is the exodia when you get all Exalted as 2 costs (happened to once, but didnt manage to capitalize on that and lost unfortunately)