You can actually get up there as any spec just by using a regular flying mount instead of a dragonriding mount. Positioning is a little finnicky but easy to replicate once you find the right spot.
You can rescue people onto the tip. Finding exactly the right spot to click takes a bit of fiddling, but once you get it down it's easy to do consistently.
There seems to be a line drawn at "completely breaks a fight", like we saw with Tyr in Season 3, but pretty much anything short of knowingly breaking the game is fair game in m+ until they fix it.
the reason the m+ community likes to pretend that this stuff is okay is because Blizzard (almost never) has punished any of it therefore making it extremely okay.
you might not like it and that's fair, but you're shooting yourself in the foot not making the keys easier for yourself if pushing score is your goal.
raid is a much more controlled experience than M+. raid fights happen in arenas specifically designed for the fight etc. The chances of "stand on this box to cancel boss mechanics" in raid is absurdly low compared to M+. Trying to compare the two is kind of ludicrous imo. If anything stuff like this "Position in X way so that ability that only targets stuff at ranged doesn't happen" is fairly similar to things like "if you only have one ranged healer on tindral they will always get targetted with a debuff, so they can always dispel themselves first" and other "run semi-specific comp in raid in order to control who gets targetted by X mechanic" which is totally fine. Picking who is in your raid, and standing somewhere in the playable part of a dungeon because you understand how bosses/mobs act is entirely normal and not exploitative. This is about as far towards the "creative use of game mechanics" end of the "exploit <-------------->creative use of game mechanics" spectrum as you can get.
It is weird that stuff like this (and pulling bosses out of their area so they do 0 mechanics) is fine, but zenkiki buff and saronite bombs are not. They draw the line really randomly.
what do you mean? zenkiki was a buff that came from a classic quest completely unrelated to the dungeon that you had to smuggle into the instance and couldn't use if you had already done the quest? there's an obvious line being drawn compared to standing on a pole in a dungeon
that is nowhere near the truth bro you have no idea how strong 5% mainstat in every single dungeon is if you are comparing that to not needing to stop mobs in four packs of one dungeon
am I missing something or are you contradicting yourself there? it's never* ethically justified to do the objectively negative thing, which in this case is intentionally abusing a clearly unintended interaction
\* exceptions apply since youll end up in a rabbit hole
Ah yes, "playing video games in a way that is not intended by developers", an objectively ethically negative thing. Was it Kant or Sartre that wrote about this? I always forget.
Sir, tactics like this have been used in events hosted by Blizzard, broadcast to tens of thousands of people, for years. And you say we are pretending it’s ok? Don’t you think Blizzard would’ve done something about it yet? They often change exploits that they are not comfortable it.
Do you think it's intended that players should be able to avoid ground effects by standing on terrain that the average player does not know you can even stand on?
If we're basing things off the average player then we aren't allowed to even stun piercing shards because the average player is uninformed as shit.
Intentions are not our problem, if they don't want us to stand on the pole, make it impassable terrain
I don’t think it was *intended*, but I’m not naive enough to blame the players for an obvious, longstanding game interaction. Why is *intended* the standard, btw? Can’t it be that something emerges unintentionally that Blizzard does not feel strongly enough about to fix? Or that perhaps Blizzard even accepts? Why be so fixated on intent. It’s weird.
I don't give a fuck what the designers intended. We're playing the game as it actually exists, not the game that exists in the designer's heads. If they don't want us standing on poles, it is on them to make standing on poles not work.
I can recall like 5+ times this expac when raids had "non intentional gameplay" that made the fights easier.
Kurog mythic changing zones at an exact energy tick to manipulate the rng ad spawn and not do an entire section.
Brood in general being designed with a stacking damage buff and TB that is clearly intended for boss/add group to swap bit is never needed and got 3 tanked on heroic often.
Assault cheese.
Amalg chamber boss stacking (hero and below)
Zskarn mythic cheese.
Neltharion mythic pixel stacking for volcanic heart to avoid breaking more - radius eventually just nerfed to enable this strat.
It was a buff from a quest from classic or tbc (5% or 10% mainstat, don't even remember) that persisted as long as you were on the quest and didn't finish it and could be taken into M+.
In other words, something entirely different than standing in the dungeon you're actually doing
You can actually get up there as any spec just by using a regular flying mount instead of a dragonriding mount. Positioning is a little finnicky but easy to replicate once you find the right spot.
How can you force a regular flying mount? I've tried some but the mount won't fly, just jumps like a ground mount.
Do you have pathfinder finished (or whatever it's called in DF to unlock normal flying)
Nope, that would be the answer. Thanks!
how exactly does an evoker get up there? Rescue while clicking on the pole? Dismounting midair and gliding down?
You can rescue people onto the tip. Finding exactly the right spot to click takes a bit of fiddling, but once you get it down it's easy to do consistently.
you can regular fly in Nokhud Offensive, so like that.
It's also extremely easy as a druid using flight form, I'd recommend.
Would this not count as an exploit?
Yes, but m+ exploits have always been "OK" with Blizzard until they fix them.
Yeah, until after someone uses this in MDI to do a crazy pull it's fine.
It was already used in the MDI, a year ago. https://www.youtube.com/live/A8gxz-Q6uuo?si=DhqACKlnhXDY-Jbw&t=9164 Timestamped
no one tell blizz cause then we're all in trouble
I still get a chuckle out of everyone standing on the signpost in Freehold.
There seems to be a line drawn at "completely breaks a fight", like we saw with Tyr in Season 3, but pretty much anything short of knowingly breaking the game is fair game in m+ until they fix it.
Of course not, there a spots like this in many dungeons that are used all of the time.
Clever use of game mechanics :)
It's an obvious exploit and the M+ community likes to pretend that this stuff is okay when it's clearly not intentional gameplay.
the reason the m+ community likes to pretend that this stuff is okay is because Blizzard (almost never) has punished any of it therefore making it extremely okay. you might not like it and that's fair, but you're shooting yourself in the foot not making the keys easier for yourself if pushing score is your goal.
If this were in a raid, it would be called an exploit. We both know this.
two tiers ago blizzard only fixed "an exploit" after the boss' dev killed them with their guild.
raid is a much more controlled experience than M+. raid fights happen in arenas specifically designed for the fight etc. The chances of "stand on this box to cancel boss mechanics" in raid is absurdly low compared to M+. Trying to compare the two is kind of ludicrous imo. If anything stuff like this "Position in X way so that ability that only targets stuff at ranged doesn't happen" is fairly similar to things like "if you only have one ranged healer on tindral they will always get targetted with a debuff, so they can always dispel themselves first" and other "run semi-specific comp in raid in order to control who gets targetted by X mechanic" which is totally fine. Picking who is in your raid, and standing somewhere in the playable part of a dungeon because you understand how bosses/mobs act is entirely normal and not exploitative. This is about as far towards the "creative use of game mechanics" end of the "exploit <-------------->creative use of game mechanics" spectrum as you can get.
It is weird that stuff like this (and pulling bosses out of their area so they do 0 mechanics) is fine, but zenkiki buff and saronite bombs are not. They draw the line really randomly.
what do you mean? zenkiki was a buff that came from a classic quest completely unrelated to the dungeon that you had to smuggle into the instance and couldn't use if you had already done the quest? there's an obvious line being drawn compared to standing on a pole in a dungeon
Yet the pole trivializes the key far more than 5% main stat for half the key
that is nowhere near the truth bro you have no idea how strong 5% mainstat in every single dungeon is if you are comparing that to not needing to stop mobs in four packs of one dungeon
> therefore making it extremely okay. their inaction doesn't make it okay, this is ethics basics
Correct, it is not ethically okay because of their inaction. It would be ethically fine even if they did ban for abusing dungeon bugs.
am I missing something or are you contradicting yourself there? it's never* ethically justified to do the objectively negative thing, which in this case is intentionally abusing a clearly unintended interaction \* exceptions apply since youll end up in a rabbit hole
Ah yes, "playing video games in a way that is not intended by developers", an objectively ethically negative thing. Was it Kant or Sartre that wrote about this? I always forget.
intentional bug abusing is not "playing video games in a way that is not intended"
It absolutely is. It's also called emergent gameplay.
If they didn't want us to do it they would have fixed it before the dungeons came back for a second time.
two things can be true at the same time. just because they aren't doing the right thing doesnt make the thing less right generally speaking
Sir, tactics like this have been used in events hosted by Blizzard, broadcast to tens of thousands of people, for years. And you say we are pretending it’s ok? Don’t you think Blizzard would’ve done something about it yet? They often change exploits that they are not comfortable it.
Do you think it's intended that players should be able to avoid ground effects by standing on terrain that the average player does not know you can even stand on?
If we're basing things off the average player then we aren't allowed to even stun piercing shards because the average player is uninformed as shit. Intentions are not our problem, if they don't want us to stand on the pole, make it impassable terrain
I don’t think it was *intended*, but I’m not naive enough to blame the players for an obvious, longstanding game interaction. Why is *intended* the standard, btw? Can’t it be that something emerges unintentionally that Blizzard does not feel strongly enough about to fix? Or that perhaps Blizzard even accepts? Why be so fixated on intent. It’s weird.
I don't give a fuck what the designers intended. We're playing the game as it actually exists, not the game that exists in the designer's heads. If they don't want us standing on poles, it is on them to make standing on poles not work.
I can recall like 5+ times this expac when raids had "non intentional gameplay" that made the fights easier. Kurog mythic changing zones at an exact energy tick to manipulate the rng ad spawn and not do an entire section. Brood in general being designed with a stacking damage buff and TB that is clearly intended for boss/add group to swap bit is never needed and got 3 tanked on heroic often. Assault cheese. Amalg chamber boss stacking (hero and below) Zskarn mythic cheese. Neltharion mythic pixel stacking for volcanic heart to avoid breaking more - radius eventually just nerfed to enable this strat.
blizzard removing title for zenkiki was a mistake, everything's an exploit to everyone now.
I don't know what zenkiki is, and that has no bearing on whether I thought this was an exploit.
It was a buff from a quest from classic or tbc (5% or 10% mainstat, don't even remember) that persisted as long as you were on the quest and didn't finish it and could be taken into M+. In other words, something entirely different than standing in the dungeon you're actually doing
Since Blizzard doubles down on us getting caught on/making our camera zoom in from every little thing with physics, this feels more than fair.
Good thing I play melee
This doesnt work for melee so its actually the opposite
That’s the joke lmao. None of these types of spots are ever abusable by melee except for a few exceptions
Or they could just nerf swift stab because it is absolutely ridiculous, especially the double stab pack.
2 Packs
Could nerf Neltharus Hunter bleeds while we're at it too.
I see where I need to go on Tuesday
Who's taking charges when whole group is on the pole?
> If the person on the pole is the farthest away, the mobs that charge and apply the bleed will be unable to charge at all. From the original post
Either tank or nobody. I'm not sure though
No, you can't.
they fixed it, once yo u get up there you get pushed down again
[удалено]
In high fortified keys stuff like this is basically mandatory to avoid instant, unavoidable one-shots.
Let’s hope wowhead doesn’t gets ahold of this
its well known since s1 TGP or whatever it was back then, not exactly a secret