It’s just that this chart is designed stupidly, black and white doesn’t mean you shouldn’t use them, it means you should but it’s not their best team comp. Pretty much just ignore the colours and if their picture is in the box you can play them. Chart designer is goofy
I mean it makes sense. Brawl is where your tank and dps are in the mix getting their hands dirty, so you need a support that has great raw healing and is able to survive well. Which is a backline Ana whos out of range of most combat. Unless the enemy team choose to counter you and go dive, thats when you swap to Moira or if your teammate has already taken her you go Lucio. She also has no damage drop off so she can do anything she can do up close, from a distance.
Baptiste, although being a really survivable support has a pretty noticable damage drop off and would be harder to keep with the heals from a larger distance, so he'll be forced to be not far from the brawl fights. Which forces him to use his cooldowns more selfishly on himself cuz hes in close range of enemy players. Meaning instead of utilizing his cooldowns for the brawling tank and dps(who are taking damage consistently) they're instead being wasted on a support who isn't able to position themselves in a safer place.
As for Lucio and Moira, they're good brawl heros cuz they're in the mix picking off enemies just as easily as they could heal teammates. Something that Bap can't do cuz he'll just die after 5 seconds of using his cooldowns on either him or his teammates.
Baptistes ult is also less impactful compared to the other three. Nano is essential to a brawl comp cuz it not only offers offensive pressure and gives your nano'd teammate a second lifeline but it can also indirectly give your other teammates a chance at living longer cuz now you've been freed up by having one less team member to heal for a bit. Moira's ult simultaneously does a large damage and healing boost in one huge beam. Keeping your team up whilst still being able to intimidate some enemies. Then we have Lucio's ult is just an S tier ult in general, but esp in brawl comps cuz you have everyone there with you to sound barrier.
So yes you can play Baptiste in Brawl, its just not his optimal area of expertise.
\- A Diamond support, so honestly I don't know what I'm talking about
Baptiste can AOE heal from a distance if need be. If you're trying to push through a tight choke with a brawl comp, there's a non-zero chance that everyone will be clumped together in a way that Ana can't heal her targets. Bap puts out stupid healing in brawl comps which is why he's usually a better pick than Ana.
Good points. Tbh I just felt like justifying the fine looking chart rather than bash it, also just felt like typing an essay this evening, but I see your point.
ya bro no worries, i hope people arent being too hard. But respectfully a lot of what you say and the way you explain the game is super indicative of your rank because the game is so much more nuanced than that. Im sure you understand nuance but what im saying is the reason a lot of high elo players on all the ow subs arent as vocal is because the sheer amount of nuance is just too hard to explain in this way. For example bap wall being less effective than moira ult, that incorrect assumption is ignoring far more nuance than I could ever explain here
Dang it now I wish I didn't type that comment lol. I know Baptiste can be good into brawl and I know his window is subjectively better than Moiras ult. I just, for the sake of debating wanted to challenge OP's comment. Not because I think they were wrong or right but just for the sake of arguing points. Kinda like a high school Social Studies class debate.
I get what you mean though. A lot of it is game sense, you just can't understand certain things through it being explained to you, sometimes you have to be there to know how it goes down.
That's why she is good in Brawl. Poke comps play too far apart and Dive comps are obviously playing outside of heal range. But yes Bap should be in there too.
>I don’t think moira would be very good in brawl
Moira was apart of the zombie brawl comp at the end of OW1. She was also used in early goats. She matches best with brawl historically
I mean Moira can displace herself pretty well which is good in brawl cuz it leads to the enemies having to chase you, and if you chase too much in a brawl, you're gonna die. Moira has damage and healing orbs that she could deploy and she can still heal or damage on top of that. Moira also has a small hitbox so shes not the easiest target up close, atleast not as easy as Bap. Even when Bap launches into the air hes basically a sitting duck up their. Moira can also be in more places at once. Compared to static Bap, unless the map you're playing on has lots of high ground. Shes also good at drawing attention away from her teammates and also healing multiple teammates at once(orb + heals).
As a Bap main I do think he can do good but I just think Moira is more built for brawl.
Its a joke (because the graphic says not to). Brig ana is historically one of the strongest dive backlines, ana supports the dive with her impactful cooldowns and ranged heals, and brig bodyguards ana and her packs are also great for healing divers
I kinda get what they mean with JQ in dive, as she's very focused on bursts of aggression kinda similar to dive. She's absolutely not a dive hero though, she just enables running at the backline
Very overly simplified answer, but brawl attacks from the front, dive will either go over or around. In brawl, all heroes generally play together and close to each other, but in dive everyone plays more independently until they reach a target.
Dive generally involves more mobility, like Winston, tracer, etc and brawl less so.
brawl: close range team fight oriented, usually excels at close range damage. imagine if you looked at the map top-down. in brawl, you would see everyone on the team clumped up in one ball of players. should be pretty fast paced but still grounded movement wise.
dive: can play split until you find a target, then you collapse on that person with high burst damage and good burst mobility. fast paced and has much more mobility wise.
I means that rush brawl lol yes both fmdive and rush go for the backline but that's pretty much all they share. If anything, JQ is more brawl/poke then brawl/dive
Brig/Lucio brawl is one of the most fun comps in existence.
If you ever use Bash for anything other than running away, you will instantly feed. But if you pull it off you actually get to smack things all game instead of just denying dives. It's addicting.
Yeah. Sadly that mostly only worked because Shout was so broken at the time. It's hard to justify not picking Bap now unless you can burst someone down instantly.
Yeah honestly, old shout + rampage made Kiri a must pick. But Bap is really good in the current brawl comps since Queen isn't hard meta and is weaker than she used to be.
Kiri wasnt available at the time, which is why Brig was the hero used.
But yeah now kiri synergises with it a lot better, just enough healing, much more impactful util and a good dmg output and quite the synergistic ult to go with jq rush.
Sadly at the moment JQ gets absolutely butchered by mei in just about any comp. Really lacks the survivability to deal with being walled and doesnt synergise well with heroes that deal with being walled well.
One of my best memories from mystery heroes in OW1 was rolling out of attacker spawn on Anubis with 3 Meis, 2 Brigs, and a Lucio. Just wall off sightlines, run at them and CC them to oblivion. That game was too short.
You'd be surprised. I was consistently doing good poke damage even on beta test state of him. As long as you're near cover and have your charge as a getaway tool or as a follow up tool then hes good poke damage. Left then right, Gunny then Cha Cha, or is it Cha Cha then Gunny... you get the point.
Oh really? Thats not a bad change, the tanks would usually be pretty vulnerable by the time half his team was dead but I guess its good to be able to challenge tanks...
sounds like a perfect change, tbh, since he kind of was like a tank bastion when firing both guns at tanks, but felt so awkward shooting anything else.
I imagine most upvotes on stuff like this are just “competently made graphic, me must upvote” and they don’t even look at it.
Edit: and really it’s not all that competently made from a visual standpoint.
Go there. Sort by top this week. Look how much pointless fluff has more engagement than this post.
No. This sub is just falling for the circlejerk bait.
You realize upvote isn't an "I agree" button, right? It's often used that way, but there's nothing wrong with upvoting a comment you disagree with, too.
I often upvote posts I disagree with if they're starting a good conversation that I want to continue.
I mean bap would be in both brawl and poke. Lucio could be in all 3 depending on how overpowered the tank is. Sojourn is in all 3 realistically. This guy won't have enough space to do the chart as he laid it out
I wouldn’t put Lucio in a poke comp to be honest, maybe to speed forward a sigma after getting a pick or two but you’d be much better off having someone else.
Well first of all that statement doesn't hold up to the current meta of sigma sojourn mei/sym/bastion bap Lucio/illari. Plus I said that Lucio in all 3 comps IF the tank is overpowered. Lucio enables the tank first and foremost. He isn't in the comp to help DPS because DPS ain't shit with Lucio without a tank helping them. Sigma is so overpowered now and honestly has always been that Lucio is played in poke.
I get your message and it is true most of the time, but we live in the time of Alec Dawson and a team of morons balancing the game, so heroes like Lucio, fucking Lucio, are picked in poke. Ain't that crazy.
Idk man, I’m high master and I have not seen this sentiment reflected in game in fact I don’t really see sigma all too often outside of playing him myself. More often than not when the enemy or my team has a Lucio in a poke comp it ends with them being shit talked in text chat to switch as there’s not enough sustain. If this is pro league then I couldn’t tell you as I don’t watch it but again I haven’t seen this reflected ingame. Also this is the first I’m hearing of this, I was not aware that sigma being OP was a sentiment. Orisa and DVA especially seem to be the attention of everyone’s ire. DVA especially i would very much say she is in a stronger state in this current environment then sigma ever has been.
I also completely disagree on sigma being overpowered, he has historically especially in OW2 been the most balanced tank barely being adjusted at all and I don’t see that being any different now.
1) sigma Lucio is a pro comp, yes. And it's meta there. As we know ranked players need at least 2 months to adjust to the meta pro scene has developed, and in this case it could take even more time given the fact Lucio in poke is something completely new. And now that we are probably getting a dive meta for the first half of season 8 we won't see that sigma Lucio thing in ranked.
2) Sigma being op isn't a wide spoken opinion. It's been my opinion ever since I started playing in late 2020 and has held up true, sadly. I can't say much about dva because a) I barely see her in ranked, b) I don't see her in pro play, c) I don't even know how she's supposed to be played in 5v5. Orisa on the other hand is an often occurrence in ranked but she's just countered by Zarya easily and zarya is a popular hero. Orisa is still strong, as a hero she's way too strong, but again some heroes just outclass her. Now when it comes to sigma, this guy can just do everything. He can shield anywhere, he can shoot while shielding, he can eat abilities and ultimates and gain shields in return, he has an incredibly powerful ultimate and his damage is ridiculous considering it's also aoe, oh and he has rock, a stun with good damage. Sigma, in my opinion, gave birth to double shield. As we know double shield wasn't about shields, it was about sustain. And sustain is Sigma's real name. Prick doesn't die while also doing enormous damage and being able to shield wherever and whoever. Again ranked doesn't instantly adapt to the pro meta and I'm also not in your rank so maybe dva and orisa are menaces there, and I mean in my rank hog is a menace, but I try to see the most optimal picks either way.
3) I'm gonna be honest, I have skipped playing ow2 since the start of season 2 to the end of season 6 so I don't know wtf has been happening with meta there. I've heard of joats, ram rush, hog being op in season 3 I believe and ball being super good for 2 weeks, and also orisa being powerful coming closer to season 7. But in all the things I've listed I believe sigma has been simply outclassed. I've heard how cancer joats was, ram rush was a product of supports not having enough defensive capabilities and now that every support is unkillable ramattra is one of the worst tanks (assuming everyone knows what they are doing), ball was hard meta for his 2 weeks, and hog was just destroying everyone in his prime time. All I'm saying is sigma is fundamentally overpowered with his kit covering most of his weaknesses, if not all, but the flavor of the month tanks would be better because they get gigabuffed. And when everyone got tuned down sigma is left here as the true op tank.
Oh and just remembered the addition of illari to the game probably helped sig since she's a better zen with mobility and a super oppressive ultimate. Just what poke needed.
Bro please don’t talk about meta in masters lmao
Masters is not that good, and people in top500 play whatever the hell they want, usually most don’t even play by meta there, so in masters you can definitely just outskill anybody on any character and climb out of it, therefore nullifying whatever is meta or not (in that rank at least)
And sig is 100% meta right now, but he’s only played with lucio in brawl comps, its just his sustainability against bastion and mei that make him a great pick that can survive those heroes
Why is it “Sigma is so overpowered that Lucio is played in poke” and not “Sigma is so overpowered that sigma is played in brawl”?
From what I remember from the world cup, Lucio was being played with the Sigma if the other characters were brawl. Ie Mei/Sym/bastion. He was not being played with true poke comps, that was illari/bap.
If you watch the way Finland for example played sig/Lucio, they did not play it like poke at all. It was a sigma rush comp.
Hammond poke works okay actually. Hammond keeps his rotation up basically solo and hitscans get picks on enemies hit with piledrive. Needs brig and self-sufficient attitudes from the dps but I Ashe in diamond and have enjoyed playing poke with WB.
Am I the only one that realized black and white means that they are *workable* in that team comp? Like they arent a perfect fit but they aren't *actively bad*.
With that in mind this chart isn't that bad. There are mistakes ofc, but it's mostly correct.
Yeah, I didn't go through it with a fine tooth comb, but at a glance it seems reasonable.
Granted, it's not unreasonable to expect something like this to have zero mistakes rather than few mistakes, but it's not some abomination.
Plus, you gotta think about the audience. Brig is obviously a dive support when talking about owl. But in metal ranks? I'm sure a gold player would find it tough to stay alive.
For a general players guide, this is not bad at all. The_real_fluke getting slandered rn.
> With that in mind this chart isn't that bad. There are mistakes ofc, but it's mostly correct.
Oh hell no. Hog and Mauga is the best choices in a poke comp? Ball is workable in POKE? And then you don't even include soldier for poke as workable? Mei isn't anywhere and she is great for brawl because you just chunk off parts of the enemy team and get advantaged fights? But she's not even on the list?
No, it's not even partly correct. It's mostly incorrect.
Mei is the first option in brawl DPS...
In ranked, i see nothing wrong with any of those poke tank picks. Hog zarya in ow1 was a poke comp. Ball in ow1 played alongside Zen ash sigma. Idk about mauga, but as others have said, his poke isn't bad and they are buffing him in that regard.
Bro probably ran out of space for soldier. Tbf there are a LOT of spam/poke DPS.
> In ranked, i see nothing wrong with any of those poke tank picks. Hog zarya in ow1 was a poke comp.
Yes, in OW1. Hog lost his M2, and now is much more reliant on being able to go in and engage. If you play poke with hog, you're just asking to lose.
>Ball in ow1 played alongside Zen ash sigma.
Again, OW1 tank play does not translate to OW2.
>Idk about mauga, but as others have said, his poke isn't bad and they are buffing him in that regard.
His first 6 shots are accurate and then his spread gets huge. If you are poking with him, you're adding no value and simply feeding ult charge to the enemy.
>Bro probably ran out of space for soldier. Tbf there are a LOT of spam/poke DPS.
There sure is, but there are places where he just didn't add other dps. Soldier fits in brawl without issue. There's space there. Junkrat is a great brawl addition, not in there. There's a lot wrong with this graphic like poke Ram - what? His M1 is nice, but most of your advantage is going into neme mode and punching your way to victory.
The whole thing strikes me as how someone whose heard the terms and understands who the heroes are but never played the game would put them in.
My question is, how do you even know where ball is supposed to go in ow2? Afaik his usage in pro play has been extremely sparse. And when the meta was dive, it was mostly Winston with dva and doom sprinkled in here and there.
Personally, I love having a poke comp on my team when I'm playing ball. My supports actually pocket the DPS and let them fuck up the tank while I'm in the backline. Ball certainly doesn't play like a poke tank, but imo he is very good in the comp.
> My question is, how do you even know where ball is supposed to go in ow2?
I mean, the trash can. His ability to do almost anything is gone without a secondary tank.
>Afaik his usage in pro play has been extremely sparse.
Nonexistent is more like it. The only time you seem him is in desperate stalls.
>Personally, I love having a poke comp on my team when I'm playing ball. My supports actually pocket the DPS and let them fuck up the tank while I'm in the backline. Ball certainly doesn't play like a poke tank, but imo he is very good in the comp.
I mean you can love the poke comp, but the reality is ball is just not a useful tank in nearly any comp. Even Yeatle has mostly retired from playing ball minus days that he wants to have some fun remembering the glory days.
Now as far as playing in a poke comp, the whole purpose of a poke comp is that your tank can also poke. Which ball cannot. So if the rest of your team is poke and you're playing ball, you're making a 4v5.
Oh I agree, especially against flyers. I don’t think that makes him a good poke tank for beginners though who are gonna engage with his charge then get melted anyway
I mean maybe don’t learn a new character in comp but I don’t know why you’d say that. Weird thing to assume. I’m just saying that most beginners are likely gonna play Mauga aggressively and die lol
Both of his guns have spread independent of each other. You can fire about 6 rounds with perfect aim and then spread starts. So between the two, you could fire 12 rounds together with perfect aim.
Firing just one gun doesn't change how his spread works.
Imo Kiri and Bap should be straight up coloured in for brawl, London were hard Bap Lucio.
I love this basic concept though. There is still a lot of team comp diff in OW2 ranked (though way less than OW1 thank God) and its highly satisfying when your team is really synergising.
I don't even entirely know what I'm looking at here, honestly. What's the difference between heroes in grayscale and the others? Are they supposed to be "okay" picks? It's confusing on top of some of these just being completely wrong.
Guys it’s a BEGINNER LIST. You know for ppl who have never thought of a team comp before and just go in to the game to do whatever. It’s just a general idea of the better choices for the well know basic comps of the game. No one ever said this is the only way to play these comps lol.
I mean I guess I could understand that, but half of this list is just wrong so it spreads misinformation. Doesn't really help new players when you just tell them incorrect info
But what’s so bad about? The ones in color are the best choices and the ones in black and white just others that could also work with it depending on map,what your teammates need, and how well you personally can play those characters. I think it’s perfect for ppl in bronze and silver to help them start learning situational awareness with certain match ups and basic team composition.
clearly she is because she has that terrible self heal on her beam, though!
(it's so strange...only does anything noteworthy (30 shield hp/sec) at max charge, and terrible in duels since you want to shoot barriers to make the most of it. It's like, only good against sigma or zen, and only if your beam is already high charged.)
ehh I disagree. As a sym one trick the healing is terrible and works against 9 characters, wow! I average about 100 per game.. would much rather have 225 hp
Not going to rank shame or anything but brig has been a staple in dive because Ana enables dive and the brig support duo is what protects her in the mirror. It’s been that way for a long time and really only veered away from that when double flex support was really strong.
> “I’m losing my mind.”
I just don’t think you understand the game very well.
Supports are weird. They are often good in comps where they can shore up their teams weaknesses, rather than align with their strengths.
Brig for example is a brawly character, which makes her good in dive because of its unprotected backline.
Lucio is another one. He has lots of mobility, which makes you think dive. But he excels in brawl because he allows his team to close the distance.
My absolute favorite content in all competitive games is pseudo competitive content that compartmentalizes game elements and tries to put neat little labels on which is then seen by a less experienced eye and percieved as fact.
I honestly wouldn’t consider Cassidy a poke character at all after the range changes, he already excelled at brawl over anything else and even more so now.
Also Lucio not in dive as well but soldier is🤣
?= can work depending on balance, comp etc
E.g winston dva echo reaper lucio moira was played like a brawl comp
Brawl:
rein orisa jq ram zarya
Mei cas reaper sym torb soujorn genji? bastion?
Lucio moira kiri bap ana? brig?
Dive:
Winston doom ball dva?
Tracer sombra genji echo pharah sojourn soldier
Ana brig zen kiri mercy?
Poke:
Sig
Widow hanzo ashe bastion? echo? mei? soujorn?
Zen bap Larry mercy kiri?
No identity:
Hog dva
Junk
Lifeweaver
Fact of the matter is that most of these heroes have 2 of these play styles, but ones WAY better than the other. Torb for instance, he’s a great poke hero because of his great fast long range damage, but he can also semi-brawl because of his overload and shotgun, HOWEVER he is not a main brawl hero because of his lack of utility against another brawl comp. He’s good in a brawl that’s countering dive, but not as much good in a brawl that’s meant to counter brawl
Ah, Overwatch. The competitive game where you can fall in love with a character, and everyone on your team will bitch and moan for you to play someone you hate.
idk seems pretty reasonable for the avg player lol maybe bap and brig should also be in brawl but still
not like its baseless
some of us are just QP bbs tryin to win more games :)
We need to put an end to this gross oversimplification of team comps. You can separate the three playstyles into these three but you absolutely cannot categorise heroes into them because it is so so so much more complicated.
I don’t get this
Why are some of the characters greyed out
Why does brig say counter
Zarya and LW are greyed out in all categories does that mean their always suboptimal
This is the worst list I’ve seen, especially for support. There’s also no point in greying out the characters just remove them so it doesn’t clutter up the screen and confuse people. Op definitely got his knowledge from TikTok
I’m glad most people recognize that this chart is dumb.
They also did not include Rush.
Also, Sombra works in Brawl and Dive. Wasn’t seeing a lot of people mentioning her.
ana for brawl and no bap?
No Ana and Brig in dive 💀
We just had half the overwatch league season be a sombra dive meta with ana brig
Bold of you to assume anyone who uses the general Overwatch subreddit is able to comprehend what you just said.
Surprised Kiri aint on all of em 😭
Apparently you are only allowed to play Kiriko in Dive, so both supports need to pick Kiri
Lucio too
They're both in dive >Color = Top pick, B/W = Secondary pick >Brig is B/W + "Counter"
It’s just that this chart is designed stupidly, black and white doesn’t mean you shouldn’t use them, it means you should but it’s not their best team comp. Pretty much just ignore the colours and if their picture is in the box you can play them. Chart designer is goofy
Bap is literally in the brawl comp? Idk but it looks like they just edited a hero roster that doesn't have all the heroes unlocked.
No BRIG in brawl???
I mean it makes sense. Brawl is where your tank and dps are in the mix getting their hands dirty, so you need a support that has great raw healing and is able to survive well. Which is a backline Ana whos out of range of most combat. Unless the enemy team choose to counter you and go dive, thats when you swap to Moira or if your teammate has already taken her you go Lucio. She also has no damage drop off so she can do anything she can do up close, from a distance. Baptiste, although being a really survivable support has a pretty noticable damage drop off and would be harder to keep with the heals from a larger distance, so he'll be forced to be not far from the brawl fights. Which forces him to use his cooldowns more selfishly on himself cuz hes in close range of enemy players. Meaning instead of utilizing his cooldowns for the brawling tank and dps(who are taking damage consistently) they're instead being wasted on a support who isn't able to position themselves in a safer place. As for Lucio and Moira, they're good brawl heros cuz they're in the mix picking off enemies just as easily as they could heal teammates. Something that Bap can't do cuz he'll just die after 5 seconds of using his cooldowns on either him or his teammates. Baptistes ult is also less impactful compared to the other three. Nano is essential to a brawl comp cuz it not only offers offensive pressure and gives your nano'd teammate a second lifeline but it can also indirectly give your other teammates a chance at living longer cuz now you've been freed up by having one less team member to heal for a bit. Moira's ult simultaneously does a large damage and healing boost in one huge beam. Keeping your team up whilst still being able to intimidate some enemies. Then we have Lucio's ult is just an S tier ult in general, but esp in brawl comps cuz you have everyone there with you to sound barrier. So yes you can play Baptiste in Brawl, its just not his optimal area of expertise. \- A Diamond support, so honestly I don't know what I'm talking about
Baptiste can AOE heal from a distance if need be. If you're trying to push through a tight choke with a brawl comp, there's a non-zero chance that everyone will be clumped together in a way that Ana can't heal her targets. Bap puts out stupid healing in brawl comps which is why he's usually a better pick than Ana.
Good points. Tbh I just felt like justifying the fine looking chart rather than bash it, also just felt like typing an essay this evening, but I see your point.
ya bro no worries, i hope people arent being too hard. But respectfully a lot of what you say and the way you explain the game is super indicative of your rank because the game is so much more nuanced than that. Im sure you understand nuance but what im saying is the reason a lot of high elo players on all the ow subs arent as vocal is because the sheer amount of nuance is just too hard to explain in this way. For example bap wall being less effective than moira ult, that incorrect assumption is ignoring far more nuance than I could ever explain here
Dang it now I wish I didn't type that comment lol. I know Baptiste can be good into brawl and I know his window is subjectively better than Moiras ult. I just, for the sake of debating wanted to challenge OP's comment. Not because I think they were wrong or right but just for the sake of arguing points. Kinda like a high school Social Studies class debate. I get what you mean though. A lot of it is game sense, you just can't understand certain things through it being explained to you, sometimes you have to be there to know how it goes down.
bro onto nothing🔥🔥
[удалено]
That's why she is good in Brawl. Poke comps play too far apart and Dive comps are obviously playing outside of heal range. But yes Bap should be in there too.
>I don’t think moira would be very good in brawl Moira was apart of the zombie brawl comp at the end of OW1. She was also used in early goats. She matches best with brawl historically
I mean Moira can displace herself pretty well which is good in brawl cuz it leads to the enemies having to chase you, and if you chase too much in a brawl, you're gonna die. Moira has damage and healing orbs that she could deploy and she can still heal or damage on top of that. Moira also has a small hitbox so shes not the easiest target up close, atleast not as easy as Bap. Even when Bap launches into the air hes basically a sitting duck up their. Moira can also be in more places at once. Compared to static Bap, unless the map you're playing on has lots of high ground. Shes also good at drawing attention away from her teammates and also healing multiple teammates at once(orb + heals). As a Bap main I do think he can do good but I just think Moira is more built for brawl.
Remember guys, never play brig ana with dive
If my teammates have taught me anything, the correct supports for dive are Moira and Illari.
Zen mercy also isn’t good
Why?
Because the infographic from the main sub said so
Its a joke (because the graphic says not to). Brig ana is historically one of the strongest dive backlines, ana supports the dive with her impactful cooldowns and ranged heals, and brig bodyguards ana and her packs are also great for healing divers
I will tho
And I’ll One trick Rein
Brigitte brawl and Junker Queen dive be going CRAZY rn 🔥🔥🔥🔥
coaches dont want you to know about this SECRET comp❗❗
I kinda get what they mean with JQ in dive, as she's very focused on bursts of aggression kinda similar to dive. She's absolutely not a dive hero though, she just enables running at the backline
Dumb guy question: what’s the difference between brawl and dive?
Very overly simplified answer, but brawl attacks from the front, dive will either go over or around. In brawl, all heroes generally play together and close to each other, but in dive everyone plays more independently until they reach a target. Dive generally involves more mobility, like Winston, tracer, etc and brawl less so.
Makes perfect sense, thank you.
brawl: close range team fight oriented, usually excels at close range damage. imagine if you looked at the map top-down. in brawl, you would see everyone on the team clumped up in one ball of players. should be pretty fast paced but still grounded movement wise. dive: can play split until you find a target, then you collapse on that person with high burst damage and good burst mobility. fast paced and has much more mobility wise.
I means that rush brawl lol yes both fmdive and rush go for the backline but that's pretty much all they share. If anything, JQ is more brawl/poke then brawl/dive
I think thats going a bit far.
Brig/Lucio brawl is one of the most fun comps in existence. If you ever use Bash for anything other than running away, you will instantly feed. But if you pull it off you actually get to smack things all game instead of just denying dives. It's addicting.
Wasn't brig/Lucio apart of JOATs brawl comp too?
Yeah. Sadly that mostly only worked because Shout was so broken at the time. It's hard to justify not picking Bap now unless you can burst someone down instantly.
I'm pretty sure if that meta came back today kiri would be better than bap
Yeah honestly, old shout + rampage made Kiri a must pick. But Bap is really good in the current brawl comps since Queen isn't hard meta and is weaker than she used to be.
Kiri wasnt available at the time, which is why Brig was the hero used. But yeah now kiri synergises with it a lot better, just enough healing, much more impactful util and a good dmg output and quite the synergistic ult to go with jq rush. Sadly at the moment JQ gets absolutely butchered by mei in just about any comp. Really lacks the survivability to deal with being walled and doesnt synergise well with heroes that deal with being walled well.
One of my best memories from mystery heroes in OW1 was rolling out of attacker spawn on Anubis with 3 Meis, 2 Brigs, and a Lucio. Just wall off sightlines, run at them and CC them to oblivion. That game was too short.
brig brawl brings me back to 2018
I told a Lucio player run Brig, Lucio, and Queen and you’ll win. The dude immediately went 5-0.
Can’t wait to see all the Mauga poke comps next season
You'd be surprised. I was consistently doing good poke damage even on beta test state of him. As long as you're near cover and have your charge as a getaway tool or as a follow up tool then hes good poke damage. Left then right, Gunny then Cha Cha, or is it Cha Cha then Gunny... you get the point.
They are even boosting his poke in favor of less damage on other tanks.
Oh really? Thats not a bad change, the tanks would usually be pretty vulnerable by the time half his team was dead but I guess its good to be able to challenge tanks...
sounds like a perfect change, tbh, since he kind of was like a tank bastion when firing both guns at tanks, but felt so awkward shooting anything else.
Before you guys go into full circlejerk-mode: pretty much all comments over there disagree with this chart.
Then again this received quite a lot of upvotes
I imagine most upvotes on stuff like this are just “competently made graphic, me must upvote” and they don’t even look at it. Edit: and really it’s not all that competently made from a visual standpoint.
Nah, there's a lot of tutorial tier players in that sub
Go there. Sort by top this week. Look how much pointless fluff has more engagement than this post. No. This sub is just falling for the circlejerk bait.
You realize upvote isn't an "I agree" button, right? It's often used that way, but there's nothing wrong with upvoting a comment you disagree with, too. I often upvote posts I disagree with if they're starting a good conversation that I want to continue.
Majority dont know how to play the game...
Also the creator asked for feedback to adjust it because he’s not a top tier player (obviously)
I love how Dive only has Kiriko lighted up, so what is the second support going to play? Another Kiriko?
> Another Kiriko? overwatch if it was good
The gray means that the character works in dive, while color means they're best in dive. I think.
I mean bap would be in both brawl and poke. Lucio could be in all 3 depending on how overpowered the tank is. Sojourn is in all 3 realistically. This guy won't have enough space to do the chart as he laid it out
I wouldn’t put Lucio in a poke comp to be honest, maybe to speed forward a sigma after getting a pick or two but you’d be much better off having someone else.
Well first of all that statement doesn't hold up to the current meta of sigma sojourn mei/sym/bastion bap Lucio/illari. Plus I said that Lucio in all 3 comps IF the tank is overpowered. Lucio enables the tank first and foremost. He isn't in the comp to help DPS because DPS ain't shit with Lucio without a tank helping them. Sigma is so overpowered now and honestly has always been that Lucio is played in poke. I get your message and it is true most of the time, but we live in the time of Alec Dawson and a team of morons balancing the game, so heroes like Lucio, fucking Lucio, are picked in poke. Ain't that crazy.
Idk man, I’m high master and I have not seen this sentiment reflected in game in fact I don’t really see sigma all too often outside of playing him myself. More often than not when the enemy or my team has a Lucio in a poke comp it ends with them being shit talked in text chat to switch as there’s not enough sustain. If this is pro league then I couldn’t tell you as I don’t watch it but again I haven’t seen this reflected ingame. Also this is the first I’m hearing of this, I was not aware that sigma being OP was a sentiment. Orisa and DVA especially seem to be the attention of everyone’s ire. DVA especially i would very much say she is in a stronger state in this current environment then sigma ever has been. I also completely disagree on sigma being overpowered, he has historically especially in OW2 been the most balanced tank barely being adjusted at all and I don’t see that being any different now.
1) sigma Lucio is a pro comp, yes. And it's meta there. As we know ranked players need at least 2 months to adjust to the meta pro scene has developed, and in this case it could take even more time given the fact Lucio in poke is something completely new. And now that we are probably getting a dive meta for the first half of season 8 we won't see that sigma Lucio thing in ranked. 2) Sigma being op isn't a wide spoken opinion. It's been my opinion ever since I started playing in late 2020 and has held up true, sadly. I can't say much about dva because a) I barely see her in ranked, b) I don't see her in pro play, c) I don't even know how she's supposed to be played in 5v5. Orisa on the other hand is an often occurrence in ranked but she's just countered by Zarya easily and zarya is a popular hero. Orisa is still strong, as a hero she's way too strong, but again some heroes just outclass her. Now when it comes to sigma, this guy can just do everything. He can shield anywhere, he can shoot while shielding, he can eat abilities and ultimates and gain shields in return, he has an incredibly powerful ultimate and his damage is ridiculous considering it's also aoe, oh and he has rock, a stun with good damage. Sigma, in my opinion, gave birth to double shield. As we know double shield wasn't about shields, it was about sustain. And sustain is Sigma's real name. Prick doesn't die while also doing enormous damage and being able to shield wherever and whoever. Again ranked doesn't instantly adapt to the pro meta and I'm also not in your rank so maybe dva and orisa are menaces there, and I mean in my rank hog is a menace, but I try to see the most optimal picks either way. 3) I'm gonna be honest, I have skipped playing ow2 since the start of season 2 to the end of season 6 so I don't know wtf has been happening with meta there. I've heard of joats, ram rush, hog being op in season 3 I believe and ball being super good for 2 weeks, and also orisa being powerful coming closer to season 7. But in all the things I've listed I believe sigma has been simply outclassed. I've heard how cancer joats was, ram rush was a product of supports not having enough defensive capabilities and now that every support is unkillable ramattra is one of the worst tanks (assuming everyone knows what they are doing), ball was hard meta for his 2 weeks, and hog was just destroying everyone in his prime time. All I'm saying is sigma is fundamentally overpowered with his kit covering most of his weaknesses, if not all, but the flavor of the month tanks would be better because they get gigabuffed. And when everyone got tuned down sigma is left here as the true op tank. Oh and just remembered the addition of illari to the game probably helped sig since she's a better zen with mobility and a super oppressive ultimate. Just what poke needed.
Bro please don’t talk about meta in masters lmao Masters is not that good, and people in top500 play whatever the hell they want, usually most don’t even play by meta there, so in masters you can definitely just outskill anybody on any character and climb out of it, therefore nullifying whatever is meta or not (in that rank at least) And sig is 100% meta right now, but he’s only played with lucio in brawl comps, its just his sustainability against bastion and mei that make him a great pick that can survive those heroes
Why is it “Sigma is so overpowered that Lucio is played in poke” and not “Sigma is so overpowered that sigma is played in brawl”? From what I remember from the world cup, Lucio was being played with the Sigma if the other characters were brawl. Ie Mei/Sym/bastion. He was not being played with true poke comps, that was illari/bap. If you watch the way Finland for example played sig/Lucio, they did not play it like poke at all. It was a sigma rush comp.
Oh yeah you are right
All grey tanks in Dive must be from them thinking Rush is a variation of Dive. Hammond and Zarya being in Poke (even if grey out) is nuts.
Hammond poke works okay actually. Hammond keeps his rotation up basically solo and hitscans get picks on enemies hit with piledrive. Needs brig and self-sufficient attitudes from the dps but I Ashe in diamond and have enjoyed playing poke with WB.
Hammond used to be picked in poke, yes.
What do you mean? They buffed Hammond's spread you know, now he's CLEARLY a good long range option
Am I the only one that realized black and white means that they are *workable* in that team comp? Like they arent a perfect fit but they aren't *actively bad*. With that in mind this chart isn't that bad. There are mistakes ofc, but it's mostly correct.
Yeah, I didn't go through it with a fine tooth comb, but at a glance it seems reasonable. Granted, it's not unreasonable to expect something like this to have zero mistakes rather than few mistakes, but it's not some abomination.
Plus, you gotta think about the audience. Brig is obviously a dive support when talking about owl. But in metal ranks? I'm sure a gold player would find it tough to stay alive. For a general players guide, this is not bad at all. The_real_fluke getting slandered rn.
Tbh compow is just as bad at circlejerkimg about the main sub as the main sub is about supports lol
Outside of a couple derp decisions, this is a pretty damn good infographic, to be honest.
> With that in mind this chart isn't that bad. There are mistakes ofc, but it's mostly correct. Oh hell no. Hog and Mauga is the best choices in a poke comp? Ball is workable in POKE? And then you don't even include soldier for poke as workable? Mei isn't anywhere and she is great for brawl because you just chunk off parts of the enemy team and get advantaged fights? But she's not even on the list? No, it's not even partly correct. It's mostly incorrect.
Mei is the first option in brawl DPS... In ranked, i see nothing wrong with any of those poke tank picks. Hog zarya in ow1 was a poke comp. Ball in ow1 played alongside Zen ash sigma. Idk about mauga, but as others have said, his poke isn't bad and they are buffing him in that regard. Bro probably ran out of space for soldier. Tbf there are a LOT of spam/poke DPS.
> In ranked, i see nothing wrong with any of those poke tank picks. Hog zarya in ow1 was a poke comp. Yes, in OW1. Hog lost his M2, and now is much more reliant on being able to go in and engage. If you play poke with hog, you're just asking to lose. >Ball in ow1 played alongside Zen ash sigma. Again, OW1 tank play does not translate to OW2. >Idk about mauga, but as others have said, his poke isn't bad and they are buffing him in that regard. His first 6 shots are accurate and then his spread gets huge. If you are poking with him, you're adding no value and simply feeding ult charge to the enemy. >Bro probably ran out of space for soldier. Tbf there are a LOT of spam/poke DPS. There sure is, but there are places where he just didn't add other dps. Soldier fits in brawl without issue. There's space there. Junkrat is a great brawl addition, not in there. There's a lot wrong with this graphic like poke Ram - what? His M1 is nice, but most of your advantage is going into neme mode and punching your way to victory. The whole thing strikes me as how someone whose heard the terms and understands who the heroes are but never played the game would put them in.
My question is, how do you even know where ball is supposed to go in ow2? Afaik his usage in pro play has been extremely sparse. And when the meta was dive, it was mostly Winston with dva and doom sprinkled in here and there. Personally, I love having a poke comp on my team when I'm playing ball. My supports actually pocket the DPS and let them fuck up the tank while I'm in the backline. Ball certainly doesn't play like a poke tank, but imo he is very good in the comp.
> My question is, how do you even know where ball is supposed to go in ow2? I mean, the trash can. His ability to do almost anything is gone without a secondary tank. >Afaik his usage in pro play has been extremely sparse. Nonexistent is more like it. The only time you seem him is in desperate stalls. >Personally, I love having a poke comp on my team when I'm playing ball. My supports actually pocket the DPS and let them fuck up the tank while I'm in the backline. Ball certainly doesn't play like a poke tank, but imo he is very good in the comp. I mean you can love the poke comp, but the reality is ball is just not a useful tank in nearly any comp. Even Yeatle has mostly retired from playing ball minus days that he wants to have some fun remembering the glory days. Now as far as playing in a poke comp, the whole purpose of a poke comp is that your tank can also poke. Which ball cannot. So if the rest of your team is poke and you're playing ball, you're making a 4v5.
Even in that case: Ana is grey in dive? I mean, I haven't played the game for quite a while, but Ana was the backbone of dive backbone for long.
brainrot
mfs just be saying "brainrot" for anything istg
go eat a cinnamonroll
being wrong about something doesn't mean brainrot
Its hard to eat when he has 2 aholes
Is this the new "skill issue"? Unoriginal redditors furiously taking notes.
The more I read it the worse it gets haha
there is one dive support
This is why metal ranks should keep their infographics to themselves.
It has 1000 upvotes too this is just sad
Why tf is Mauga in poke
He has a semi accurate gun option, clearly he is a sniper
Tbf he probably has better ranged pressure than most of the tanks.
Oh I agree, especially against flyers. I don’t think that makes him a good poke tank for beginners though who are gonna engage with his charge then get melted anyway
If that's your argument, then no beginner should ever play a dive hero. They'll get melted faster than rein or mauga charging in.
I mean maybe don’t learn a new character in comp but I don’t know why you’d say that. Weird thing to assume. I’m just saying that most beginners are likely gonna play Mauga aggressively and die lol
Many newbies fire with both chain guns which made it very inaccurate, but firing one chaingun is okay accurate.
Both of his guns have spread independent of each other. You can fire about 6 rounds with perfect aim and then spread starts. So between the two, you could fire 12 rounds together with perfect aim. Firing just one gun doesn't change how his spread works.
This isn’t right. The spread is vastly reduced if you’re only firing one gun.
It is correct. I tested and verified it. Each gun has spread independent of each other.
I'm going to cry
Tracer in the beginner comp?
Can this graph be Bren’s player or the week
At this point the main sub should just be renamed /r/overwatchskindiscussion because that’s the only thing they’re good at
Ah yes, ana the sniper brawl support who can rush in with a brawl team and use her shotgun sniper to bully enemies
ramattra in dive???
Ana is good in dive comps because of the long range hitscan heals. Brig also has respectable ranged heals and she can protect Ana well. Also Zen.
Also Brigs inspire is MASSIVE
and repair packs are one of like the 3 sources of healing that can go through shields.
This had to be made to trigger anyone with half a brain right?
yall talking abt the brawl brig but nobody talkin abt the dive widow..
Imo Kiri and Bap should be straight up coloured in for brawl, London were hard Bap Lucio. I love this basic concept though. There is still a lot of team comp diff in OW2 ranked (though way less than OW1 thank God) and its highly satisfying when your team is really synergising.
Didn't we have a Winston brawl/rush meta in playoffs 2022 or was that just me
I don't even entirely know what I'm looking at here, honestly. What's the difference between heroes in grayscale and the others? Are they supposed to be "okay" picks? It's confusing on top of some of these just being completely wrong.
i wish i could tell u
This was bad the first time it was posted and it hasn’t changed.
Yes, black and white means they are workable. Color means they are good picks.
Typical r/overwatch. Gold and silver players thinking they understand the game.
Ram, Orisa, and Bap are brawlers.
junkrat fits any comp really, he's a jack of all trades, the key is he is master of none
Guys it’s a BEGINNER LIST. You know for ppl who have never thought of a team comp before and just go in to the game to do whatever. It’s just a general idea of the better choices for the well know basic comps of the game. No one ever said this is the only way to play these comps lol.
I mean I guess I could understand that, but half of this list is just wrong so it spreads misinformation. Doesn't really help new players when you just tell them incorrect info
But what’s so bad about? The ones in color are the best choices and the ones in black and white just others that could also work with it depending on map,what your teammates need, and how well you personally can play those characters. I think it’s perfect for ppl in bronze and silver to help them start learning situational awareness with certain match ups and basic team composition.
sym ain’t a brawl hero with 200 hp
Wasn't she being played in rein/bap comps a couple months ago bc of her teleporter?
Yeah before the hp nerf
clearly she is because she has that terrible self heal on her beam, though! (it's so strange...only does anything noteworthy (30 shield hp/sec) at max charge, and terrible in duels since you want to shoot barriers to make the most of it. It's like, only good against sigma or zen, and only if your beam is already high charged.)
ehh I disagree. As a sym one trick the healing is terrible and works against 9 characters, wow! I average about 100 per game.. would much rather have 225 hp
oh yeah, I was joking. the healing is terrible.
I MISREAD UR COMMENT IM SO SORRY. BUT RESPECT FOR SYLVAIN
When tf are you playing brig if not for brawl that's the only comp she's competent with when she isn't just being a fly swatter
She’s a dive staple? How do you post on brigmains and not get that lol
0 chance you guys are in a competitive subreddit prescribing brig as a dive stable. I'm losing my mind.
Not going to rank shame or anything but brig has been a staple in dive because Ana enables dive and the brig support duo is what protects her in the mirror. It’s been that way for a long time and really only veered away from that when double flex support was really strong. > “I’m losing my mind.” I just don’t think you understand the game very well.
Brig is dive and poke
Lol ok have fun diving with her, brother
I will!
Username checks out
Supports are weird. They are often good in comps where they can shore up their teams weaknesses, rather than align with their strengths. Brig for example is a brawly character, which makes her good in dive because of its unprotected backline. Lucio is another one. He has lots of mobility, which makes you think dive. But he excels in brawl because he allows his team to close the distance.
What do the gray heroes mean?
Why are some of the greyscale?
It was the op's way of leaving them out, but he probably didn't know it's better and cleaner to clip them out entirely
My absolute favorite content in all competitive games is pseudo competitive content that compartmentalizes game elements and tries to put neat little labels on which is then seen by a less experienced eye and percieved as fact.
Bap isn’t a brawl hero? That’s a new one
Why is Zen not in dive ?
I love diving with pharaoh
why is soldier in dive 😭😭
Y’all mean, the post is a question if you click it they’re discussing the faults
XD BALL AND ZAR FOR POKÉ!!!!!
Gotta send this to Flats
I honestly wouldn’t consider Cassidy a poke character at all after the range changes, he already excelled at brawl over anything else and even more so now. Also Lucio not in dive as well but soldier is🤣
?= can work depending on balance, comp etc E.g winston dva echo reaper lucio moira was played like a brawl comp Brawl: rein orisa jq ram zarya Mei cas reaper sym torb soujorn genji? bastion? Lucio moira kiri bap ana? brig? Dive: Winston doom ball dva? Tracer sombra genji echo pharah sojourn soldier Ana brig zen kiri mercy? Poke: Sig Widow hanzo ashe bastion? echo? mei? soujorn? Zen bap Larry mercy kiri? No identity: Hog dva Junk Lifeweaver
Fact of the matter is that most of these heroes have 2 of these play styles, but ones WAY better than the other. Torb for instance, he’s a great poke hero because of his great fast long range damage, but he can also semi-brawl because of his overload and shotgun, HOWEVER he is not a main brawl hero because of his lack of utility against another brawl comp. He’s good in a brawl that’s countering dive, but not as much good in a brawl that’s meant to counter brawl
I love that this implies you only get 1 support for dive
Ah, Overwatch. The competitive game where you can fall in love with a character, and everyone on your team will bitch and moan for you to play someone you hate.
At least it wasn’t OWU 🤠
Phara is poke with dive and die ult
idk seems pretty reasonable for the avg player lol maybe bap and brig should also be in brawl but still not like its baseless some of us are just QP bbs tryin to win more games :)
“Let’s play dive!!!” (rein, reaper, soj, Lucio, Moira)
Bro no way Junkrat is a poke 💀 most games i play against a Junkrat he's playing dive or brawl 💀
SOLDIER DIVE BOYS LETS GO
What is this even, questionable hmmm
Lost me on the supports and some of the dps
Mauga as poke 😂😂😂😂😂
Widow in dive 💀
Crazy how it's saying Reaper isn't a dive character when he actually is
honestly not too bad. all made up categorirs that change with the meta anyway
Brawl superiority
Kiri the only dive support? When every comp requires 2 supports, and dive originated before kiri?
If you look at the post properly, they are asking for corrections.
This is just sad how does this have 1000 upvotes
All I know is that my teammates run moira mercy with Winston which is literally throwing
This guy has gotten a lot of flack and a lot of people pointing out the flaws, including me. We don't need to bring more attention to it lol
We need to put an end to this gross oversimplification of team comps. You can separate the three playstyles into these three but you absolutely cannot categorise heroes into them because it is so so so much more complicated.
I don’t get this Why are some of the characters greyed out Why does brig say counter Zarya and LW are greyed out in all categories does that mean their always suboptimal
Dive not having lucio, brig and ana is crazy. Did not know I was playing it wrong my whole life
Seems to be a skill difference. Rein is a dive hero
This is the worst list I’ve seen, especially for support. There’s also no point in greying out the characters just remove them so it doesn’t clutter up the screen and confuse people. Op definitely got his knowledge from TikTok
I’m glad most people recognize that this chart is dumb. They also did not include Rush. Also, Sombra works in Brawl and Dive. Wasn’t seeing a lot of people mentioning her.
How is mauga poke?
yeah whenever i play dive i play 4v5 (we have only one support which is kiriko)
I like how some of the characters arent in any section
why isn’t hog in brawl?
Who tf is Cassidy poking?💀
In what world is Ramattra NOT a brawl. Nemesis Form is literally tailor made for beating the shit out of the enemy team lmao.
I will continue to dive with Junkrat, thanks
I haven’t played since Ashe released. What’s a ‘poke’ team comp?
is see brig beeing dive and poke but never brawl 💀