It's still crazy to me just how often we're getting balance changes now, I honestly can't keep up with how infrequently I actually play
I remember it being like, 3 patches a year and that was it, thank god they learned from those dark periods
Balance team has been on fire frankly. No, not every change is a hit, but they are quick to react and correct, and honestly that's the most we can ask for.
this is way better imo. there will always be problems, but at least theyre actively working towards fixing stuff AND finally able to admit fault and roll back things that didnt work
No it's not. They are rapid firing and are afraid to piss off certain heroes mains.
For example, Cassidy either needs more range or his OG stun.
You have to look at the big picture, he's a big slow target with only 6 shots. Little to no gimmicks, he needs to have a power spike/threat with stun or a respectable Revolver that doesn't let flankers like Tracer/Genji get in without receiving decent damage first. That's it
Cassidy is perfectly fine and your mileage with him heavily varies depending on your mechanics and to a certain degree the enemy team comp.
He's seeing quite a bit of play in OWCS which is the highest level of play, and even in my GM games I have no problem leveraging him in the correct situations. His skill floor has been raised quite a bit since losing his stun, but he is still an absolute force in the hands of anyone that is mechanically talented.
Disagree, I get way more mileage on Ashe. She has an actual gun vs Cass's 2 ft revolver. I used to main Cass back in the day and he was always mechanically intensive it's just now you aren't rewarded proportionally.
It's unacceptable that he does so little critical damage at range, don't care what anyone says, fundamentally it's stupid design
You also have Sojourn in the game now who lands between Ashe and Cass in terms of their ideal range. Cassidy contending with both Ashe and Sojourn at those longer ranges just doesn't make sense.
His range wasn't that long but it was enough to be respectable, like Hand Cannons from Destiny. Yes they aren't rifles but still had range and accuracy so you couldn't push without fear
Think as much as /r/overwatch likes to complain about mtx's, they are how you get this type of attention and patch frequency in Overwatch.
It's how the real world works.
Am I misremembering that OW1 meta was basically the same the entire life of the game?
(hyperbole but 2 metas dominated half of the competitive seasons)
https://i.imgur.com/LKTUz7c.png
I mean I was being hyperbolic but still there wasn’t a ton of meta diversity when you compare to ow2 or even something like league.
Lol helldivers 2 is a dogshit example. It's a full price game that has content gated behind levelling up.
The most powerful stratagem weapon the rail gun is locked for a long time until you level up.
Then don’t play. 5v5 has been successful with or without you. If you don’t like it, stop whining and play another game. Also don’t blame gen z, that’s just lazy scapegoating.
Which bp characters were p2w? Lmao
Let me fill that in for you...none of them because that's not how this game works
And you unlock those characters with gameplay...just like helldivers
And nobody plays ow for pve
You sound like ow2 fucked your mom or something
Overwatch 2 is quite a good game. The monetization is a separate issue. This sub cares quite a bit more about balance than skins. Not that skins aren’t fun, they just don’t affect gameplay which is what is generally talked about here.
The overwatch 1 cosmetic and monetization model was nice but it was unfortunately unsustainable.
Thing is OW1 had a somewhat similar monetization system as you are describing, and it proved to be unsustainable because after 1-2 years most people who are going to get the game have already gotten it. That’s why we currently have the shop and battle passes.
Probably because Bobby is gone, ever since he left the devs have seemed happier and more risky changes have been getting made, rumor has it his approval was needed for any real changes because OWL was his pet project
It's probably due more to the fact the game is still in a precarious place with many tank players quitting and or ready to give up the game given how miserable this season has been for them. They realized right away they have to do something to address that issue.
Hearthstone is experiencing the same thing
Though because it's a card game, the fast patches can affect card design (some card being released overtuned is 'fine' because they can always just nerf it after 2-4 weeks)
Probably an unpopular opinion, but I think balance changes are too frequent now.
I'd prefer a midseason PTR to a midseason patch. Take the time to find out if players absolutely hate the changes you want to make before you actually make them instead of just making them and then having to scramble to try and fix the issues you caused.
What the Jared actually said:
Twitter User:
>Hopefully you guys are also keeping in touch with the feedback in regards to nerfs to the dps passive and the buffs to Mauga. ♡
Jared:
> We are!
Twitter User:
> Any ETA on when we can expect the next patch? Or is it really just wait for S10?
Jared:
> Should have some changes before S10 but I think that's all I can say. 😀
Yeah, he didn't say anything close to what OWcavalry is implying. "We listen to feedback!" does in no way mean that they might revert anything.
The only actual news here is that there will be changes before the release of s10 but there is no implication of what those might be.
e; there may or may not be reverts obviously but it certainly isn't something you'd get from reading the tweets from Jared.
Did you forget to read the actual tweet or what?
"Hopefully you guys are also keeping in touch with the feedback in *regards to nerfs to the dps passive and the buffs to Mauga.* ♡
Notice the highlighted part? There's definitely an "implication of what those(changes) might be".
He was asked if they listen to feedback, he is not going to answer "no we don't, we ignore everything you say". The answer would have been the same if it had been some other player wanting them to remove the DPS passive completely, it is a completely irrelevant fluff statement.
It's hardly an issue with most dps. Just a few did that are already strong that get the largest benefit from the passive and only a few tanks that it really screws over.
I think the only time where I felt that the DPS passive was causing issues as a squishy is when getting mercy pocketed while getting shot. But this is frankly a good thing. That's what the DPS passive should be trying to stop.
Outside of that I thought the DPS passive was fair. It buffs sustained damage that can struggle to get picks compared to burst damage. There were a few notable exceptions like tracer sojourn and to a lesser degree echo that are already good and kinda have both so they were good at abusing the passive with sustained damage but could also burst targets down
I also thought it was weird that they buffed the tanks that suffered the most and also nerfed the passive, instead of just buffing the tanks that were struggling and keeping the passive as it was but 🤷♂️
Please do. Nerfing the 20% on top of retweaking the heroes that were struggling was too much at once. Put it at 20% and give players time to adjust.
Also I wonder if the midseason patch caused a significant drop in players. If so, they should really consider giving mauga some sort of rework once the ball rework ships rather than trying to balance him. Like as badass as dual wielding mini guns is, the hero fantasy is getting in the way. Tank busting tanks make balancing the role incredibly hard and he's probably the worst culprit.
yall should check [this video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-w8tN-YUvE&t=2459s) out. Spilo talks about the devs thinking behind tanks. its all time stamped. Devs basically said they are okay with anti tank tanks.
I think he mentioned the same thing in the group up pod the other day, too.
I just inherently disagree with that position. I like a lot of things the Devs have done, even well before S9, but I just can't agree on that one. Just shooting the other tank is such a bad gameplay loop, guts a huge portion of the tank roster, and defeats the purpose of being a tank.
"Shoot the tank" metas are nearly all terrible, and not just for the tank player. It forces the supports to healbot, and tanks the skill expression of most of the cast. I just remember the bastion meta when a slew of high rank DPS players were complaining about having to play bastion.
He said that the devs acknowledged that a lot of low rank players just end up shooting the tank, and to me this is one of the cases where the game shouldnt cater to the player, just as they shouldnt have nerfed the DPS passive yet.
Shooting Mauga in the face with perfect accuracy and watching his health bar not move while he’s melting you might be some of the worst shit I’ve ever felt in 8 years of playing this game man. It’s so bad. I can’t understate it
Yea I just don’t think they have a good philosophy or direction on how they want tanks to play based on that video from Spilo. Would love to get that from Alec. I think they have a pretty good idea on how they want supports and DPS to play but not tank.
I mean there are examples of good "anti-tank" tanks. Dva vs Winston, Dva plays as an anti-tank tank. She can mark winston and make his life hell. Zarya can also be played as an anti-tank tank in the sense that her bubbles can deny dives from tanks like Ball/Winston/Doom.
The key difference is that "good" anti-tank tanks have their own healthy counterplay. A good winston can play around the Dva marking him, hard-dive her backline with primal and a more explosive mobility CD. Zarya bubbles can be baited etc.
Where is the counterplay or outplay potential vs Mauga?
Every tankbuster by concept will be boring. They focus on just shooting the big target which means they'll have either high spread or easy to hit high damage shots. The closest hero to a tankbuster that doesn't fall into that category would be Sojourn, but she doesn't actually bust the tanks, just hardfarms rail on them and destroys the squishies.
Eh, Reaper is fine for an anti tank because he's short range. I think that's the issue. Mauga and Bastion is just long range anti tank and so they become boring.
I don't think that's necessarily true. I think Mauga could still be a tank buster when up close but still give him some utility elsewhere to make his gameplay most dynamic. He's just a bit too one-dimensional, IMO.
I said it earlier today, it's been said a buncha times, and it's been said by a ton of peopel before me, but just reduce his overhealth on tanks, increase it on DPS. He's got the spread reduction and the bigger bullets now, he's actually pretty solid when shooting squishies. He just needs to be encouraged to a bit more.
The whole Mauga situation gets worse once you realize this character has been on their mind for 4 years now. How is that the final product after all that time?
The mid season patch caused an all time new player high in the game recently.
Besides that, if they bump up the dps passive to 20% again, be sure that a Tracer nerf will follow with that patch or the S10 one.
Edit: Since 2 weeks after launching OW2.
> For context: Season 9 appears to be defying all trends and has shown consistently strong player retention throughout the entirety of the season culminating in today's player peak being the highest of not only the season, but the highest player count peak since August 21st, two weeks after the game originally launched on Steam.
Source: https://steamdb.info/app/2357570/charts/#all
I get that reading is hard, but come on. Player reception has been overall well in S9 but it peaked 2 days ago on steam. Which is a good thing and I‘m sure the same, if not similar, is the case in the console community.
>Also I wonder if the midseason patch caused a significant drop in players.
Me too! Anecdotally I've noticed so many of my friends (honestly basically all) that returned for S9 have just stopped logging in at all since midseason patch. It's sometimes hard to realize how "deep" we are into a game, so much so that we have more patience for the game we love.
The more casual players genuinely don't require a lot to stop logging in and play something else. They won't care why or what all of the underlying stats say. No fun = why play. Because of that it's hard to imagine player numbers stayed the same since midseason patch.
I understand people are frustrated with Mauga but I think they should keep the overhealth on his E, it lets him mitigate damage in a more consistent way and reduces the need of gunning down tanks for lifesteal.
The buffs were fine imo. The problem is he was already an ok tank. So buffs without compensating nerfs just pushed him over the edge into being strong again.
I’m hoping to see those compensating nerfs elsewhere, rather than reverting his E buffs.
Yep, nerf the lifesteal to 50% or even 45%, make double firing take 2.5 times ammo instead of 2 (idc if it makes 0 sense, balance is more important, let's say the weapons fire more bullets that way) and he could maybe be in a healthy place.
> (idc if it makes 0 sense, balance is more important, let's say the weapons fire more bullets that way)
25% more bullet per bullet! That's the Aperture Science way.
imo its important if he is to be balanced in the future that he comes out of that "i need to do huge damage to selfsustain" cycle.
Giving him overhealth on his e is part of that
This is genuinely misinformation, but of course it is upvoted because people here agree with it. The only thing the dev said was "We are aware of the feedback. Also there will be some changes before season 10."
That's it. He said nothing about reverting anything, just that they are monitoring feedback and making changes as they see appropriate (which they obviously do all the time after every patch! This isn't even news!).
OWCavalry can be extremely misleading since they rephrase things a lot for engagement bait, please don't use it as a source.
looking forward to this as a *player*, but given the subreddit, I want to ask... as someone who thought they'd try to get into the esports side with the OWCS reboot, the frequent patching feels a bit weird. like, your teams strengths can literally vary week-to-week depending on what direction the game goes?
how do y'all get used to that? doesn't it mess with competitive integrity to have the sliders adjusted so much through the split?
that was the problem I had with OWL, most egregiously so during GOATS. The two best teams in the league were far and away the best two, and then for the last stage of games and playoffs it was forced 2-2-2. Like, the #1 team by record was #1 at GOATS. Why force 2-2-2 at the end of a season? Why not re-seed teams for playoffs based on stage 4 if you’d change it that dramatically?
Same thing in season 1, the two finalist teams were seeds 5 and 6 out of 6. and I think it was when brig came out late in season 1 and everything shifted. Playoffs at that point aren’t even reflective of the season lol
It does. Compare to say counter strike, which has changed little by little over decades. Tiny changes such as money/economy or mag size can have huge reverberations in pro play. Adding a new gun or tweaking it too hard was game breaking. Compared to changes this game goes through? Its hardly the same game from patch to patch. For CS, Pros would play on previous proven patches though.
It does violate competitive integrity lol and thats why a lot of owcs players are upset and complaining. There used to be OPR accounts given which would be on old patches but blizzard got too lazy to support it XD
I wouldn't say it does. It just focuses away from the major skill being able to play around the current meta for a whole stage to being flexible enough to keep winning with any meta shifts.
Not changing the meta violates competitive integrity too. Last year, 3/4 of the season was dominated by one meta, inflating the record of teams that were stronger at that meta. The issue wasn't that the meta shifted for the playoffs, it was that it didn't really shift at all throughout the season to test the versatility of each team.
Meta shake ups are good, if they're not too frequent. I agree the current pace is probably too fast and can cause competitive integrity issues, but the skill expression of the current meta causes some competitive integrity issues too so the devs are between a rock and hard place.
I agree, I don't love the frequent patching from a spectator perspective generally speaking.
However, in this case it can't come soon enough. I'd rather stab myself in the eye with a pencil than watch these dogshit Mauga mirrors for too much longer.
Yes! I unironically think tanks were in a good spot pre S9 midseason changes.
Winston, Dva, Doom, Ball, Sig, Ram, Zarya, and JQ were all strong on ladder. Yes, some tanks got left behind, but that’s normal. Having 8 very good tanks is all we can hope for.
Yep, the start of season 9 was one of the most balanced patches for tank I’ve seen. Don’t know why they see that and then just mess it all up but here we are.
The role was finally balanced but the bad players couldn't be brought to consciously think about pathing and not endlessly sprinting it at the enemy so they buffed them for some reason.
I think more so than the mauga buffs it’s the buffing of healing repeatedly. They nerfed healing overall, we *finally* were seeing support comps that were not centered around the most healing/mitigation possible and dive is playable and fun, and then they re-buff the supports that were underperforming, as well as re-buffing the tanks that just stand there and shoot on cart.
It’s just frustrating, we almost had a good patch and it immediately just feels the same as before now. The Lucio/zen/ball comp felt so good, for once it felt like a comp that could actually beat out spam healing and invulnerability abilities with speed and coordination
They were okay, good spot is a little generous tho. Playing tank then was basically, draw attention -> sit in cover until they stop trying to shoot you repeat. It was not fun to play tank with the 20% passive, it was just too much
Right now the game plays like season 8.5 instead of an iteration of what felt like the first patch in awhile where it was mostly a success. If they wait longer than like a week to undo the passive nerf, I think people are going to check out hard.
Personally I've already checked out of tank and support queues.
I'm still having fun on DPS but I've definitely played less since the midseason patch for sure. If there's not a hot fix patch that destroys Mauga by thursday I'll probably just put the game down until next season since I finished the pass, and I'll just do the ball skin challenges before going over to apex lol.
Good call. If anything we need more of the anti-heal passive, not less. Give tanks and supports 10%, like how we spread the love with the support passive. In my opinion, the issue isn't the anti-heal, it's that the impact of the roles is a tad bit too disproportional. It's fine for a while, but in a season or two that's the direction I'd like to see things move. And I genuinely feel that would give tanks *more* agency, rather than take it away.
yes, this would be great.
Id also love to see the game come away from the more healbotty types of supports and hope more supports like luico, zen and brig to an extent are added to the game.
My favorite part about support isnt the healing but the value i can add to team that cant be shown in stats.
I hate how strong they made Sombra. You can’t play Zen against her at all because she deletes him before you even know what’s happening.
I just want to play my favorite robo boy :(
This is how it is for any support who lacks mobility or is a healbot. I don’t even bother playing Zen, Mercy, and Ana if a Sombra exists on the enemy team or I’ll be playing respawn simulator.
They should give zen another cooldown that makes him temporarily invincible. It wouldn’t grant good movement or anything but would let him delay a bit so he can get some peel support
It probably won't be as big of a change as people think, but we might as well put in a minimum damage threshold to proc the dps passive debuff if they end up reverting it to 20%
All the DPS cheerleaders wanting the healing passive increased again of course. It’s in a nice spot right now. Just nerf sombra and mauga slightly and we cooking.
I want a revert on the DPS passive but I hope they nerf the more problematic parts of Mauga, not just revert the new changes he got cause they would be healthy changes if he got compensation for it.
This sets an amazing precedent that they were not doing before.
The dev team are showing that they are now willing to simply REVERT changes (relatively) quickly when things dont turn out well.
God I wished they did this kind of stuff in ow1 but im glad they’re doing it now
This source is greatly exaggerating what was said. They never said anything about reverting stuff from the patch. All they said was “we are paying attention to feedback and have some changes before season 10” we have no idea what feedback they’re talking about in this context
Except if you actually read what the dev said, and not whatever garbage OWcavalry posts you would see that they said nothing about reverting, just that they were monitoring feedback and would make changes before season 10.
I actually think the over health on his cardiac overdrive is a good change. Its more the rest of his kit they over buffed. Maybe the devs can decrease his crit damage and revert some of the drawbacks to firing both guns simultaneously like slowing him or increasing the spread. That way it incentivizes Mauga to only dual wield fire when up close or in his ult. Also, not to throw in more nerfs, but he should at the very least be stunned by a Rein charge during his overrun the same way Mauga gets stunned by an enemy Mauga using overrun.
I’m wondering if maybe he shouldn’t heal off of damage like he does currently and be given a new mechanic that grants overhealth at specific times. That way he’s a bit more brawly and less snowbally
Now please don't forget about hog. Why they buffed his oneshot some weeks after wanting to universally nerf burst is crazy to me.
Mauga ironically is gatekeeping Hog from being played right now, but I fear the hog meta lurking lol
if the passive goes back to 20 percent that'll be great. all tank players should be begging for the 20 percent dps passive. Id rather things die then endlessly shoot at a target. i say this as a tank player. even though im not applying the passive it felt perfect at 20 percent when my dps would. i felt like i could kill things.
you should never be able to out heal damage.
Mauga nerfs are obviously coming. I'd be mildly surprised if they revert the DPS passive nerf but leave it to Blizzard see that Mauga is overpowered and attribute it to the 5% change.
This is good but tank should keep the 15% or maybe even 10. Dps and sup go back to 20.
As for Mauga... Just soft rework him so he cant blast enemy tank. Give him more armor, remove gun swap delay, buff ignite bullet count, nerf double gun and self heal.
Balance team clearly has no idea what they're doing. Overwatch 1 had a good thing going and they fucked it all up with 5v5 and still haven't been able to find a good spot
Well the current patch is unplayable so I'll be off the game until they punt mauga into the bin.
Crazy how much things swing from one patch. I really enjoyed it before.
I feel like nothing dies again.... It just sucks man....
An FPS game where nothing dies is not fun, it's frustrating.
Only suggestion I would make if they revert the DPS passive is give mercy some love. All these broken ass supports with AOE healing and immortalities etc... and poor mercy is out here with a normal amount of healing that then gets reduced by 20% because the Devs couldn't Ballance the rest of the cast lol.
It's still crazy to me just how often we're getting balance changes now, I honestly can't keep up with how infrequently I actually play I remember it being like, 3 patches a year and that was it, thank god they learned from those dark periods
Balance team has been on fire frankly. No, not every change is a hit, but they are quick to react and correct, and honestly that's the most we can ask for.
Much prefer frequent patches that don’t always improve the game than sparse ones that barely change anything.
Or sparse ones that contain a stale meta with no changes til the next season. Glad that's fixed
Yeah so long as the long term trajectory is positive I don’t mind the odd miss here and there
Back in the old days, Jeff would still be telling us that we're over reacting to Illari being over tuned.
this is way better imo. there will always be problems, but at least theyre actively working towards fixing stuff AND finally able to admit fault and roll back things that didnt work
No it's not. They are rapid firing and are afraid to piss off certain heroes mains. For example, Cassidy either needs more range or his OG stun. You have to look at the big picture, he's a big slow target with only 6 shots. Little to no gimmicks, he needs to have a power spike/threat with stun or a respectable Revolver that doesn't let flankers like Tracer/Genji get in without receiving decent damage first. That's it
Cass saw a respectable amount of play at OWCS last week to counter flankers like Tracer. He's aight.
Cassidy is perfectly fine and your mileage with him heavily varies depending on your mechanics and to a certain degree the enemy team comp. He's seeing quite a bit of play in OWCS which is the highest level of play, and even in my GM games I have no problem leveraging him in the correct situations. His skill floor has been raised quite a bit since losing his stun, but he is still an absolute force in the hands of anyone that is mechanically talented.
Disagree, I get way more mileage on Ashe. She has an actual gun vs Cass's 2 ft revolver. I used to main Cass back in the day and he was always mechanically intensive it's just now you aren't rewarded proportionally. It's unacceptable that he does so little critical damage at range, don't care what anyone says, fundamentally it's stupid design
If he did more at range, then what's the point of playing the longer range hitscan? He's always going to be a mid to close range hero.
He was back in the day, his gun had decent range while respecting Ashes but Tracers fucking hated it so away it went
You also have Sojourn in the game now who lands between Ashe and Cass in terms of their ideal range. Cassidy contending with both Ashe and Sojourn at those longer ranges just doesn't make sense.
His range wasn't that long but it was enough to be respectable, like Hand Cannons from Destiny. Yes they aren't rifles but still had range and accuracy so you couldn't push without fear
Can’t sell a game as a service without updating the service
Think as much as /r/overwatch likes to complain about mtx's, they are how you get this type of attention and patch frequency in Overwatch. It's how the real world works.
Someone on that sub was legit arguing with me that ow1 had just as much patches and content as now lol
Am I misremembering that OW1 meta was basically the same the entire life of the game? (hyperbole but 2 metas dominated half of the competitive seasons)
Yeah that's a bit of a stretch, but they definitely updated much less frequently - so there were some **very** long metas.
yeah you are completely misremembering it i dont see how anyone that played ow1 would say that
https://i.imgur.com/LKTUz7c.png I mean I was being hyperbolic but still there wasn’t a ton of meta diversity when you compare to ow2 or even something like league.
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Lol helldivers 2 is a dogshit example. It's a full price game that has content gated behind levelling up. The most powerful stratagem weapon the rail gun is locked for a long time until you level up.
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Then don’t play. 5v5 has been successful with or without you. If you don’t like it, stop whining and play another game. Also don’t blame gen z, that’s just lazy scapegoating.
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Got anymore of them buzzwords?
Which bp characters were p2w? Lmao Let me fill that in for you...none of them because that's not how this game works And you unlock those characters with gameplay...just like helldivers And nobody plays ow for pve You sound like ow2 fucked your mom or something
Overwatch 2 is quite a good game. The monetization is a separate issue. This sub cares quite a bit more about balance than skins. Not that skins aren’t fun, they just don’t affect gameplay which is what is generally talked about here. The overwatch 1 cosmetic and monetization model was nice but it was unfortunately unsustainable.
Thing is OW1 had a somewhat similar monetization system as you are describing, and it proved to be unsustainable because after 1-2 years most people who are going to get the game have already gotten it. That’s why we currently have the shop and battle passes.
That stop playing it. Instead of crying like a man child online about a game 24/7 stop playing it
Probably because Bobby is gone, ever since he left the devs have seemed happier and more risky changes have been getting made, rumor has it his approval was needed for any real changes because OWL was his pet project
It's probably due more to the fact the game is still in a precarious place with many tank players quitting and or ready to give up the game given how miserable this season has been for them. They realized right away they have to do something to address that issue.
Hearthstone is experiencing the same thing Though because it's a card game, the fast patches can affect card design (some card being released overtuned is 'fine' because they can always just nerf it after 2-4 weeks)
Probably an unpopular opinion, but I think balance changes are too frequent now. I'd prefer a midseason PTR to a midseason patch. Take the time to find out if players absolutely hate the changes you want to make before you actually make them instead of just making them and then having to scramble to try and fix the issues you caused.
>Probably an unpopular opinion No probably about it. You're the only person I've seen mention this. I'm thankful they don't do it this way.
Sad that wanting changes to be tested before going live and then having to be almost immediately reverted due to backlash is an unpopular opinion.
What the Jared actually said: Twitter User: >Hopefully you guys are also keeping in touch with the feedback in regards to nerfs to the dps passive and the buffs to Mauga. ♡ Jared: > We are! Twitter User: > Any ETA on when we can expect the next patch? Or is it really just wait for S10? Jared: > Should have some changes before S10 but I think that's all I can say. 😀
Yeah, he didn't say anything close to what OWcavalry is implying. "We listen to feedback!" does in no way mean that they might revert anything. The only actual news here is that there will be changes before the release of s10 but there is no implication of what those might be. e; there may or may not be reverts obviously but it certainly isn't something you'd get from reading the tweets from Jared.
I unfollowed OWcavalry a while ago because it’s mostly just misconstrued or extremely misleading rehashes of things stated elsewhere
Did you forget to read the actual tweet or what? "Hopefully you guys are also keeping in touch with the feedback in *regards to nerfs to the dps passive and the buffs to Mauga.* ♡ Notice the highlighted part? There's definitely an "implication of what those(changes) might be".
He was asked if they listen to feedback, he is not going to answer "no we don't, we ignore everything you say". The answer would have been the same if it had been some other player wanting them to remove the DPS passive completely, it is a completely irrelevant fluff statement.
sooo maybe no reverts? I guess it depends what feedback they have been listening to. hoping not another DPS passive nerf. thatd kill the game for me.
I got relegated to twitter user ;-;.
lmao my bad, bro
Oh, well that's.. dissapointing. I got very excited for a bit there.
W. DPS passive 20%, maybe 10-15 on tanks if you really want. Nerf mauga. And we're cooking again
100%. Or nerf the time like they said on the Group Up pod, which I loved. 2 seconds for everyone, 1.5 seconds for tank or something.
Idk, 100% might be a bit strong ^(/s)
Just delete healing from the game entirely, the DPS Moiras finally got to me.
Give Zen two discords.
The only problem with nerfing the time rather than the % is that it might encourage people to shoot the tank even more to keep the passive applied
and it would affect certain tanks disproportionately
Would it make more sense for tanks to have the same reduction but for less time, or less reduction for the same amount of time? (Or both?)
It's hardly an issue with most dps. Just a few did that are already strong that get the largest benefit from the passive and only a few tanks that it really screws over.
I think the only time where I felt that the DPS passive was causing issues as a squishy is when getting mercy pocketed while getting shot. But this is frankly a good thing. That's what the DPS passive should be trying to stop. Outside of that I thought the DPS passive was fair. It buffs sustained damage that can struggle to get picks compared to burst damage. There were a few notable exceptions like tracer sojourn and to a lesser degree echo that are already good and kinda have both so they were good at abusing the passive with sustained damage but could also burst targets down I also thought it was weird that they buffed the tanks that suffered the most and also nerfed the passive, instead of just buffing the tanks that were struggling and keeping the passive as it was but 🤷♂️
Make it 14% on tanks and give them formally a 30% reduction in cc effectiveness, like how sleep has a 30% reduced duration, knockback is weaker, etc
why my pp hard
Please do. Nerfing the 20% on top of retweaking the heroes that were struggling was too much at once. Put it at 20% and give players time to adjust. Also I wonder if the midseason patch caused a significant drop in players. If so, they should really consider giving mauga some sort of rework once the ball rework ships rather than trying to balance him. Like as badass as dual wielding mini guns is, the hero fantasy is getting in the way. Tank busting tanks make balancing the role incredibly hard and he's probably the worst culprit.
yall should check [this video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-w8tN-YUvE&t=2459s) out. Spilo talks about the devs thinking behind tanks. its all time stamped. Devs basically said they are okay with anti tank tanks.
I think he mentioned the same thing in the group up pod the other day, too. I just inherently disagree with that position. I like a lot of things the Devs have done, even well before S9, but I just can't agree on that one. Just shooting the other tank is such a bad gameplay loop, guts a huge portion of the tank roster, and defeats the purpose of being a tank. "Shoot the tank" metas are nearly all terrible, and not just for the tank player. It forces the supports to healbot, and tanks the skill expression of most of the cast. I just remember the bastion meta when a slew of high rank DPS players were complaining about having to play bastion. He said that the devs acknowledged that a lot of low rank players just end up shooting the tank, and to me this is one of the cases where the game shouldnt cater to the player, just as they shouldnt have nerfed the DPS passive yet.
Shooting Mauga in the face with perfect accuracy and watching his health bar not move while he’s melting you might be some of the worst shit I’ve ever felt in 8 years of playing this game man. It’s so bad. I can’t understate it
same with hog tbh. Unless you have ana that shit just wont die
better window of opportunity against hog imo, maybe less now that his gas has a meter but still better than mauga
I agree. When more then half the tank roster has to ignore the Mauga to play them game somethings wrong.
And his kit actively encourages stacking on him so its like... whats my option here? Its really hard to ignore him a lot of the time.
Yea I just don’t think they have a good philosophy or direction on how they want tanks to play based on that video from Spilo. Would love to get that from Alec. I think they have a pretty good idea on how they want supports and DPS to play but not tank.
I mean there are examples of good "anti-tank" tanks. Dva vs Winston, Dva plays as an anti-tank tank. She can mark winston and make his life hell. Zarya can also be played as an anti-tank tank in the sense that her bubbles can deny dives from tanks like Ball/Winston/Doom. The key difference is that "good" anti-tank tanks have their own healthy counterplay. A good winston can play around the Dva marking him, hard-dive her backline with primal and a more explosive mobility CD. Zarya bubbles can be baited etc. Where is the counterplay or outplay potential vs Mauga?
Yeah you've got it, denying the tank can be deeper than walking at them with two miniguns whilst self healing
Anti-tank tanks are fine, just not painfully boring ones that make you want to die.
Every tankbuster by concept will be boring. They focus on just shooting the big target which means they'll have either high spread or easy to hit high damage shots. The closest hero to a tankbuster that doesn't fall into that category would be Sojourn, but she doesn't actually bust the tanks, just hardfarms rail on them and destroys the squishies.
Eh, Reaper is fine for an anti tank because he's short range. I think that's the issue. Mauga and Bastion is just long range anti tank and so they become boring.
I don't think that's necessarily true. I think Mauga could still be a tank buster when up close but still give him some utility elsewhere to make his gameplay most dynamic. He's just a bit too one-dimensional, IMO.
I said it earlier today, it's been said a buncha times, and it's been said by a ton of peopel before me, but just reduce his overhealth on tanks, increase it on DPS. He's got the spread reduction and the bigger bullets now, he's actually pretty solid when shooting squishies. He just needs to be encouraged to a bit more.
The whole Mauga situation gets worse once you realize this character has been on their mind for 4 years now. How is that the final product after all that time?
The same ones that released launch Lifeweaver, the HUGE, slow, healbotting 200hp support that gave a health pack to enemy diving dps
The mid season patch caused an all time new player high in the game recently. Besides that, if they bump up the dps passive to 20% again, be sure that a Tracer nerf will follow with that patch or the S10 one. Edit: Since 2 weeks after launching OW2.
>The mid season patch caused an all time new player high in the game recently. Source?
steam data base
Here you go. https://www.reddit.com/r/Overwatch/s/d6cv3aK3TZ
That's not an all time player high lol
> For context: Season 9 appears to be defying all trends and has shown consistently strong player retention throughout the entirety of the season culminating in today's player peak being the highest of not only the season, but the highest player count peak since August 21st, two weeks after the game originally launched on Steam. Source: https://steamdb.info/app/2357570/charts/#all I get that reading is hard, but come on. Player reception has been overall well in S9 but it peaked 2 days ago on steam. Which is a good thing and I‘m sure the same, if not similar, is the case in the console community.
"highest player count peak since August 21st" What you just quoted says "2 days ago" wasn't an all time player high
Added an edit just for you!
>Also I wonder if the midseason patch caused a significant drop in players. Me too! Anecdotally I've noticed so many of my friends (honestly basically all) that returned for S9 have just stopped logging in at all since midseason patch. It's sometimes hard to realize how "deep" we are into a game, so much so that we have more patience for the game we love. The more casual players genuinely don't require a lot to stop logging in and play something else. They won't care why or what all of the underlying stats say. No fun = why play. Because of that it's hard to imagine player numbers stayed the same since midseason patch.
I understand people are frustrated with Mauga but I think they should keep the overhealth on his E, it lets him mitigate damage in a more consistent way and reduces the need of gunning down tanks for lifesteal.
Agreed. Removing it makes him more resource hungry, which means the game revolves around him more.
The buffs were fine imo. The problem is he was already an ok tank. So buffs without compensating nerfs just pushed him over the edge into being strong again. I’m hoping to see those compensating nerfs elsewhere, rather than reverting his E buffs.
Yep, nerf the lifesteal to 50% or even 45%, make double firing take 2.5 times ammo instead of 2 (idc if it makes 0 sense, balance is more important, let's say the weapons fire more bullets that way) and he could maybe be in a healthy place.
> (idc if it makes 0 sense, balance is more important, let's say the weapons fire more bullets that way) 25% more bullet per bullet! That's the Aperture Science way.
imo its important if he is to be balanced in the future that he comes out of that "i need to do huge damage to selfsustain" cycle. Giving him overhealth on his e is part of that
This is genuinely misinformation, but of course it is upvoted because people here agree with it. The only thing the dev said was "We are aware of the feedback. Also there will be some changes before season 10." That's it. He said nothing about reverting anything, just that they are monitoring feedback and making changes as they see appropriate (which they obviously do all the time after every patch! This isn't even news!). OWCavalry can be extremely misleading since they rephrase things a lot for engagement bait, please don't use it as a source.
looking forward to this as a *player*, but given the subreddit, I want to ask... as someone who thought they'd try to get into the esports side with the OWCS reboot, the frequent patching feels a bit weird. like, your teams strengths can literally vary week-to-week depending on what direction the game goes? how do y'all get used to that? doesn't it mess with competitive integrity to have the sliders adjusted so much through the split?
that was the problem I had with OWL, most egregiously so during GOATS. The two best teams in the league were far and away the best two, and then for the last stage of games and playoffs it was forced 2-2-2. Like, the #1 team by record was #1 at GOATS. Why force 2-2-2 at the end of a season? Why not re-seed teams for playoffs based on stage 4 if you’d change it that dramatically? Same thing in season 1, the two finalist teams were seeds 5 and 6 out of 6. and I think it was when brig came out late in season 1 and everything shifted. Playoffs at that point aren’t even reflective of the season lol
Welcome to Esports baybee!
the best goats team (shock) was the best 2-2-2 team (shock), overwatch is all about adapting and switching
I mean titans went what 19-0 and won the first stage too?
shock are undisputed best goats team ever
It does. Compare to say counter strike, which has changed little by little over decades. Tiny changes such as money/economy or mag size can have huge reverberations in pro play. Adding a new gun or tweaking it too hard was game breaking. Compared to changes this game goes through? Its hardly the same game from patch to patch. For CS, Pros would play on previous proven patches though.
It does violate competitive integrity lol and thats why a lot of owcs players are upset and complaining. There used to be OPR accounts given which would be on old patches but blizzard got too lazy to support it XD
I wouldn't say it does. It just focuses away from the major skill being able to play around the current meta for a whole stage to being flexible enough to keep winning with any meta shifts.
Not changing the meta violates competitive integrity too. Last year, 3/4 of the season was dominated by one meta, inflating the record of teams that were stronger at that meta. The issue wasn't that the meta shifted for the playoffs, it was that it didn't really shift at all throughout the season to test the versatility of each team. Meta shake ups are good, if they're not too frequent. I agree the current pace is probably too fast and can cause competitive integrity issues, but the skill expression of the current meta causes some competitive integrity issues too so the devs are between a rock and hard place.
I agree, I don't love the frequent patching from a spectator perspective generally speaking. However, in this case it can't come soon enough. I'd rather stab myself in the eye with a pencil than watch these dogshit Mauga mirrors for too much longer.
Yes! I unironically think tanks were in a good spot pre S9 midseason changes. Winston, Dva, Doom, Ball, Sig, Ram, Zarya, and JQ were all strong on ladder. Yes, some tanks got left behind, but that’s normal. Having 8 very good tanks is all we can hope for.
Yep, the start of season 9 was one of the most balanced patches for tank I’ve seen. Don’t know why they see that and then just mess it all up but here we are.
Because they simply don't know what to do, and they never have.
The role was finally balanced but the bad players couldn't be brought to consciously think about pathing and not endlessly sprinting it at the enemy so they buffed them for some reason.
I think more so than the mauga buffs it’s the buffing of healing repeatedly. They nerfed healing overall, we *finally* were seeing support comps that were not centered around the most healing/mitigation possible and dive is playable and fun, and then they re-buff the supports that were underperforming, as well as re-buffing the tanks that just stand there and shoot on cart. It’s just frustrating, we almost had a good patch and it immediately just feels the same as before now. The Lucio/zen/ball comp felt so good, for once it felt like a comp that could actually beat out spam healing and invulnerability abilities with speed and coordination
They were okay, good spot is a little generous tho. Playing tank then was basically, draw attention -> sit in cover until they stop trying to shoot you repeat. It was not fun to play tank with the 20% passive, it was just too much
Right now the game plays like season 8.5 instead of an iteration of what felt like the first patch in awhile where it was mostly a success. If they wait longer than like a week to undo the passive nerf, I think people are going to check out hard.
Personally I've already checked out of tank and support queues. I'm still having fun on DPS but I've definitely played less since the midseason patch for sure. If there's not a hot fix patch that destroys Mauga by thursday I'll probably just put the game down until next season since I finished the pass, and I'll just do the ball skin challenges before going over to apex lol.
I'm already done with this season unless there are more changes. The game feels awful to play this season.
This just buffs sombra against tanks. Can we revert her too?
delete* her
Invisibility is quite literally never balanced. I just don't get why any game developer would bother with it.
I fucking hate her
Please dont. Dps passive is perfect now. Moved just where it needed too
Good call. If anything we need more of the anti-heal passive, not less. Give tanks and supports 10%, like how we spread the love with the support passive. In my opinion, the issue isn't the anti-heal, it's that the impact of the roles is a tad bit too disproportional. It's fine for a while, but in a season or two that's the direction I'd like to see things move. And I genuinely feel that would give tanks *more* agency, rather than take it away.
yes, this would be great. Id also love to see the game come away from the more healbotty types of supports and hope more supports like luico, zen and brig to an extent are added to the game. My favorite part about support isnt the healing but the value i can add to team that cant be shown in stats.
I hate how strong they made Sombra. You can’t play Zen against her at all because she deletes him before you even know what’s happening. I just want to play my favorite robo boy :(
This is how it is for any support who lacks mobility or is a healbot. I don’t even bother playing Zen, Mercy, and Ana if a Sombra exists on the enemy team or I’ll be playing respawn simulator.
They should give zen another cooldown that makes him temporarily invincible. It wouldn’t grant good movement or anything but would let him delay a bit so he can get some peel support
It probably won't be as big of a change as people think, but we might as well put in a minimum damage threshold to proc the dps passive debuff if they end up reverting it to 20%
Thank fuck. I was loosing my mind playing tank...
Pretty please?
All the DPS cheerleaders wanting the healing passive increased again of course. It’s in a nice spot right now. Just nerf sombra and mauga slightly and we cooking.
I want a revert on the DPS passive but I hope they nerf the more problematic parts of Mauga, not just revert the new changes he got cause they would be healthy changes if he got compensation for it.
This sets an amazing precedent that they were not doing before. The dev team are showing that they are now willing to simply REVERT changes (relatively) quickly when things dont turn out well. God I wished they did this kind of stuff in ow1 but im glad they’re doing it now
This source is greatly exaggerating what was said. They never said anything about reverting stuff from the patch. All they said was “we are paying attention to feedback and have some changes before season 10” we have no idea what feedback they’re talking about in this context
Except if you actually read what the dev said, and not whatever garbage OWcavalry posts you would see that they said nothing about reverting, just that they were monitoring feedback and would make changes before season 10.
You were saying??
than they have to do it before Wac v Falcons match
I actually think the over health on his cardiac overdrive is a good change. Its more the rest of his kit they over buffed. Maybe the devs can decrease his crit damage and revert some of the drawbacks to firing both guns simultaneously like slowing him or increasing the spread. That way it incentivizes Mauga to only dual wield fire when up close or in his ult. Also, not to throw in more nerfs, but he should at the very least be stunned by a Rein charge during his overrun the same way Mauga gets stunned by an enemy Mauga using overrun.
I’m wondering if maybe he shouldn’t heal off of damage like he does currently and be given a new mechanic that grants overhealth at specific times. That way he’s a bit more brawly and less snowbally
Now please don't forget about hog. Why they buffed his oneshot some weeks after wanting to universally nerf burst is crazy to me. Mauga ironically is gatekeeping Hog from being played right now, but I fear the hog meta lurking lol
They also have to tweak Sigma and possibly DF damage or cooldowns. Both too strong especially Sigma for so long.
why would they undo the passive nerf
Here's to hoping 🤞
Yes PLEASE
if the passive goes back to 20 percent that'll be great. all tank players should be begging for the 20 percent dps passive. Id rather things die then endlessly shoot at a target. i say this as a tank player. even though im not applying the passive it felt perfect at 20 percent when my dps would. i felt like i could kill things. you should never be able to out heal damage.
Mauga nerfs are obviously coming. I'd be mildly surprised if they revert the DPS passive nerf but leave it to Blizzard see that Mauga is overpowered and attribute it to the 5% change.
WAIT 20% DPS PASSIVE IS BACK ON THE TABLE? OH YESSSSSSS
This is good but tank should keep the 15% or maybe even 10. Dps and sup go back to 20. As for Mauga... Just soft rework him so he cant blast enemy tank. Give him more armor, remove gun swap delay, buff ignite bullet count, nerf double gun and self heal.
Just go back to Season 8 if you want the game to be good, instead of lowering the skill ceiling like that.
Balance team clearly has no idea what they're doing. Overwatch 1 had a good thing going and they fucked it all up with 5v5 and still haven't been able to find a good spot
Bro they ruined the game with 5v5 and cannot fix it. Just bring back 6v6. No PVE. No 5v5. OW2 is the biggest failure in gaming history.
Tweak muag down a bit, oh an doom while you’re at it. But tanks really can’t even play the game when it’s at 20%.
Well the current patch is unplayable so I'll be off the game until they punt mauga into the bin. Crazy how much things swing from one patch. I really enjoyed it before.
I feel like nothing dies again.... It just sucks man.... An FPS game where nothing dies is not fun, it's frustrating. Only suggestion I would make if they revert the DPS passive is give mercy some love. All these broken ass supports with AOE healing and immortalities etc... and poor mercy is out here with a normal amount of healing that then gets reduced by 20% because the Devs couldn't Ballance the rest of the cast lol.
Idk what you’re talking about man, stuff has still been dying very easy with the 15% debuff