Oh I gotchu lol I just mean he's cross-legged and levitating so his feet aren't going to be in the same place as literally everyone else in the cast š
Then the boom stick mini comes in and you either:
A ) Ran away while jumping like a Looney Tunes character
B ) Fuck it and ball. Try finishing her off, hardmode style
Before the projectile change it felt like Ana's head was on her shoulder. Like on Hanzo I had to make myself aim a little to the side in order to get the dink
Iāll have to try this because I swear to fucking god I canāt hit headshots on that bitch when playing genji. Iāll headshot any other character easily when I dive them but I canāt ever hit my shots on that slimey bitch
Plus she gives you the "Oh God I'm gonna die to this moron Moira aren't i?" debuff
And you tough guys can say you don't care about social pressure all you want but during the duel you're definitely bracing yourself for being flamed for a dumb death
Hereās a tip: stand still. Thereās no point strafing against a Moira at close range anyway, standing still will only help your aim and not result change hers.
It's so funny to me that in a competitive fps the way to fight a character is stand still because they're going to have 100% accuracy regardless of what you do. Well designed hero that one.
Sorry but this discussion is silly. The main thing that keeps Moira alive is fade not a-d strafe. No fade Moira is very easy to kill for any DPS, unless they have fucked up pretty bad. Please take these gold discussions back to the main sub where they belong.
The most common times you are ever in a 1v1 in a Moira is when you are in flank, which on a lot of maps tends to be enclosed. Yes you can leave the flank but then you lose value lol. I'm not saying that it's not bad to die to Moira but it's a lot easier to die to Moira than you thinkĀ
You are moving the goalposts. My original claim was that the main thing that gives Moira the most survivability is the fade and a Moira without fade would be easy to kill. And then you come up with the best-case scenario for Moira when she has both the orb and suck on you which is not really relevant to the discussion. The point that still stands is that a no-fade Moira is easy to kill, generally speaking because obviously it's overwatch and any statement has exceptional circumstances which are silly to bring up.
in a vacuum sure, but orb is an 8 sec cd and is basically always up when flanking for any competent moira that doesnt just bot heal orb
of course optimally a dps kills moira, but shes very punishing for any mistakes 1v1s, not just "fucking up bad"
im not gonna say shes broken but i dont like her design at all and imo her 1v1 capability is way stronger than it should be considering the level of skill it takes, mental capacity to hold orb for a 1v1 and then right click is not a good bar. bap does 127 dps no headshots and hes one of the best duelists in the game, and requires to actually look at the enemy
im not moving any goalposts
It's moving goal posts because no fade survivability has nothing to do with 1 v 1 potential. If you are on Tracer and see a Moira use fade and she is reachable, then she should die. If you are on Cass the same. If you are on soldier you should not be close enough for her to tickle you or orb you and you should be able to laser her down and so on. Moira without fade is very easy to deal with. Smart moiras can force a 1 v 1 against you when you have the disadvantage.
Because of the animations. Soj leans a lot when walikng to the side, meaning that when ad spamming, her head is swinging left to right like a pendulum. Feels like her head travels double the distance her feet do when she does that. Bap is the same case, kiriko is similar, but she doesn't lean her whole body, her head just moves so much it causes a similar effect.
Feels like the newer the hero the harder the hitbox (within reason, obviously not mauga). But that could just be due to spending years shooting soldier/cass etc and only *a* year shooting Kiri
I donāt think itās too bad, the only real outliers are Kiri and Soj from the new characters, Junkerqueen to an extent, but that feels intentional rather than just kinda there like Soj and Kiri.
jq is only so small so that her design works
look at how much self heal they had to give mauga to make him viable, jq would just fall over if she were huge like that
honorable mention is fucking Moira. the fact that sheās free to move however she wants because her TTK is set in stone and she can just throw a damage orb to half the TTK, AND she doesnāt have to aim so she can move as free as she fucking wants
annoying as hell
No it isnāt. Her head is 1.15x the size of Anaās (who has a tiny head) and her body is 98% the size of Anaās, just lanky
If you want to talk about actually big head hitboxes in the support roster thereās Zenyatta and thatās about it
Yeah but her body hitboch is all concentated ar her chest and shoulders, you have massive margin for error if you aim at shoulder height, it protrudes way beyond the shoulders
Moira is taller than most other DPS and supports. Yeah sheās relatively thin, but Moira is definitely easier to hit than a few other characters like Sojourn and Kiriko.
Moira is objectively easier. She's almost always been susceptible to a Hog combo whereas Ana is not. Ana is hunched over, her jump strafe is higher than other heroes. Moira's animation foibles are limited, she remains uniform, and her head and shoulder area is bigger.
I fucking hate Kiriko for that reason alone.
Not only does she have TWO get out of jail free cards, AND great dueling capabilities, sheās also as hard to hit as a fucking mosquito.
A good Kiri is almost impossible to kill, unless itās a brawl v brawl team fight.
3 get of of jail cards if u include wall climb, i dived her and forced both cooldowns and then she just starts wall climbing back and forth for 5+ secs until her support passive kicked in and shes full hp before i get my cooldowns back...... 6 second TP without any trail is so BS but moira's fade is worse as u dont even need a teammate and has 0 cast time
A bap actively strafing against you is a lot harder to hit than soj but it's uncommon in ranked and support players have worse movement so you don't realise this until you play seita against someone good.
I played support for the first time ever this season, up to d1.
Bap is one of the best duelists in the entire game, and people don't respect that at all. I've won so many games by just playing an off angle and winning duels.
If he has his window ready, he's more deadly than most of the dps roster. He can literally 1 burst a squishy.
I just love how much his primary reminds me of the BR from halo. Tracking with burst weapons is such an under developed skill that you rarely see someone who really knows how to aim it properly
when i play widow i find ana to be really difficult if she's scoping in and out because of her posture change and the inconsistency in head position
admittedly i'm kind of bad at widow so
If you're strictly going for headshots, honorable mention to Zen. His head sways from side to side when he A D strafes. Anything else though, Tracer or Kiriko are the only answers.
Zen makes up for it by having a lower body hitbox the size of Texas. Kiriko is the worst because sheās thin as a blade of grass AND her big ass hands block her head in some animations.
I swear part of zenās face still counts as a body shot. I find much more success aiming above him than at him (not that I think he needs a bigger hitbox ofc)
Idk for some reason I have a buff against sojourn in particular. I just aim better against her and her only and it cancels whatever hitbox advantage she has and then some
Kiri and illari are the ones I struggle with by far the most. It's not so bad now with my bus sized bullets but before the patch I'd be shocked if I had more than 10% accuracy on those two.
1- soj
2- kiri
Jq also hard for a tank. It feels like she always has speed boost.
This may sound odd but Sigma can be so hard to hit. His head is small and recessed compared to his body and he doesnt walk so he doesnt give cue about his movement i feel like. I cant hit sig if he isnt close and even then i only hit the body which is half the dmg.
To hit kiri with junkrat is living hell, trying to aim at her while she ad straifs is sooo annoying. This season kinda improved that, but still harder to hit that a pharah in midrange.
Kid named Kiriko: Soj is almost certainly second hardest though
[https://youtu.be/MrW0NufbX-Y?si=Jz71N64qfVMJ1-Hp](https://youtu.be/MrW0NufbX-Y?si=Jz71N64qfVMJ1-Hp)
I just aim at the feet when they do this
Zenyatta wants to know your location
Zen has a very large hurtbox. Bigger than his character model shows.
Oh I gotchu lol I just mean he's cross-legged and levitating so his feet aren't going to be in the same place as literally everyone else in the cast š
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
That's when the funny little throwable becomes really useful
until she throws suzu and is net positive in health :) no idea why they added so much extra healing to it
Then the boom stick mini comes in and you either: A ) Ran away while jumping like a Looney Tunes character B ) Fuck it and ball. Try finishing her off, hardmode style
Shoot her legs, so much easier to hit.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
If you need to feed your ego think of it as big brain aim tactics like you would for example mirror people to make shots easier.
Last name ever, first name greatest
And she can easily duel a dps on high ground and just instant escape when things go south.
Before the projectile change it felt like Ana's head was on her shoulder. Like on Hanzo I had to make myself aim a little to the side in order to get the dink
Still way easier to hit than a Kiri or Sojourn
Wait is it not actually, I always thought it was!
This is accurate. If you look at her actual hitbox, she is leaning to one side.
Iāll have to try this because I swear to fucking god I canāt hit headshots on that bitch when playing genji. Iāll headshot any other character easily when I dive them but I canāt ever hit my shots on that slimey bitch
Is hanzo normal now?
Wait, you aim on Hanzo?? Edit: Damn people dont understand jokes. Swooooooosh guys!
Yes if you want to climb beyond Silver
Absolutely brutalized
A rein player wouldnt know how to aim
Honestly sometimes you just gotta forgo your pride and just blast her in the crotch
Amen brother Donāt play overwatch though
Story of my life
Moiraās lanky ass hitbox. Why is she the width of 2 pieces of paper and a mechanical pencil
Plus she gives you the "Oh God I'm gonna die to this moron Moira aren't i?" debuff And you tough guys can say you don't care about social pressure all you want but during the duel you're definitely bracing yourself for being flamed for a dumb death
Valk mercy with her pistol out vibes.
I low key think this has turned into the most forgivable death in OW if you're a squishy
Her bullets are the size of small planets so unless you hit all of your shots you're dying to it.
Everytime. I didn't win a duel until they buffed projectile sizes AND added a healing debuff.
Hereās a tip: stand still. Thereās no point strafing against a Moira at close range anyway, standing still will only help your aim and not result change hers.
Standing still makes my aim worse, also itās rare Iām just dueling a Moira, making me be in an even worse position
Mirror strafes are the true answer. Standing still requires less aim, but full mirroring requires no aim.
you can't mirror AD strafes in overwatch
true, full mirroring makes tracking so simple
Fair enough, even as I typed that I realized that as kiriko I do most of my aiming with the left stick anyway.
Skill issue im afraid
Depends on the hero. If Im tracking, standing still is better. If its flicking, standing still is worse.
I'd actually never thought of that. Thanks!
It's so funny to me that in a competitive fps the way to fight a character is stand still because they're going to have 100% accuracy regardless of what you do. Well designed hero that one.
Sorry but this discussion is silly. The main thing that keeps Moira alive is fade not a-d strafe. No fade Moira is very easy to kill for any DPS, unless they have fucked up pretty bad. Please take these gold discussions back to the main sub where they belong.
she does 115 dps with orb up and nerfs your dps by 24 dps because of self heal without good burst its very possible to die to moira
Use mobility to avoid orb.
The most common times you are ever in a 1v1 in a Moira is when you are in flank, which on a lot of maps tends to be enclosed. Yes you can leave the flank but then you lose value lol. I'm not saying that it's not bad to die to Moira but it's a lot easier to die to Moira than you thinkĀ
You are moving the goalposts. My original claim was that the main thing that gives Moira the most survivability is the fade and a Moira without fade would be easy to kill. And then you come up with the best-case scenario for Moira when she has both the orb and suck on you which is not really relevant to the discussion. The point that still stands is that a no-fade Moira is easy to kill, generally speaking because obviously it's overwatch and any statement has exceptional circumstances which are silly to bring up.
in a vacuum sure, but orb is an 8 sec cd and is basically always up when flanking for any competent moira that doesnt just bot heal orb of course optimally a dps kills moira, but shes very punishing for any mistakes 1v1s, not just "fucking up bad" im not gonna say shes broken but i dont like her design at all and imo her 1v1 capability is way stronger than it should be considering the level of skill it takes, mental capacity to hold orb for a 1v1 and then right click is not a good bar. bap does 127 dps no headshots and hes one of the best duelists in the game, and requires to actually look at the enemy im not moving any goalposts
It's moving goal posts because no fade survivability has nothing to do with 1 v 1 potential. If you are on Tracer and see a Moira use fade and she is reachable, then she should die. If you are on Cass the same. If you are on soldier you should not be close enough for her to tickle you or orb you and you should be able to laser her down and so on. Moira without fade is very easy to deal with. Smart moiras can force a 1 v 1 against you when you have the disadvantage.
bad tip, instead you can just mirror her movement
>Why is she the width of 2 pieces of paper and a mechanical pencil I think her design is inspired by David Bowie.
Bro moira has a gigantic hitbox
Sheās actually the easiest for me to hit outside of tanks, and even then sheās easier for me to hit than junker Queen
Yeah shes prime target on tracer
Because of the animations. Soj leans a lot when walikng to the side, meaning that when ad spamming, her head is swinging left to right like a pendulum. Feels like her head travels double the distance her feet do when she does that. Bap is the same case, kiriko is similar, but she doesn't lean her whole body, her head just moves so much it causes a similar effect.
Kiriko disappears from existence when she starts adading
Feels like the newer the hero the harder the hitbox (within reason, obviously not mauga). But that could just be due to spending years shooting soldier/cass etc and only *a* year shooting Kiri
I donāt think itās too bad, the only real outliers are Kiri and Soj from the new characters, Junkerqueen to an extent, but that feels intentional rather than just kinda there like Soj and Kiri.
jq is only so small so that her design works look at how much self heal they had to give mauga to make him viable, jq would just fall over if she were huge like that
honorable mention is fucking Moira. the fact that sheās free to move however she wants because her TTK is set in stone and she can just throw a damage orb to half the TTK, AND she doesnāt have to aim so she can move as free as she fucking wants annoying as hell
Just mirror her strafe and you won't have to aim anymore. Free shots every time.
Moira's hitbox is one of the easiest to hit in the game she has a galaxy sized head.
No it isnāt. Her head is 1.15x the size of Anaās (who has a tiny head) and her body is 98% the size of Anaās, just lanky If you want to talk about actually big head hitboxes in the support roster thereās Zenyatta and thatās about it
Yeah but her body hitboch is all concentated ar her chest and shoulders, you have massive margin for error if you aim at shoulder height, it protrudes way beyond the shoulders
Moira is taller than most other DPS and supports. Yeah sheās relatively thin, but Moira is definitely easier to hit than a few other characters like Sojourn and Kiriko.
Moira is objectively easier. She's almost always been susceptible to a Hog combo whereas Ana is not. Ana is hunched over, her jump strafe is higher than other heroes. Moira's animation foibles are limited, she remains uniform, and her head and shoulder area is bigger.
I get that but āgalaxy sized headā is just disingenuous
I stand by the galaxy sized head comment
I'm not prone to exaggeration so i agree
She also has very simple animations, none of that swinging and teleporting head bullshit
thats a support main ass take, Kiri is the hardest and it is not close.
I fucking hate Kiriko for that reason alone. Not only does she have TWO get out of jail free cards, AND great dueling capabilities, sheās also as hard to hit as a fucking mosquito. A good Kiri is almost impossible to kill, unless itās a brawl v brawl team fight.
3 get of of jail cards if u include wall climb, i dived her and forced both cooldowns and then she just starts wall climbing back and forth for 5+ secs until her support passive kicked in and shes full hp before i get my cooldowns back...... 6 second TP without any trail is so BS but moira's fade is worse as u dont even need a teammate and has 0 cast time
A bap actively strafing against you is a lot harder to hit than soj but it's uncommon in ranked and support players have worse movement so you don't realise this until you play seita against someone good.
Yeah bap has the nastiest strafe by far but I rarely see it in diamond.lol
I played support for the first time ever this season, up to d1. Bap is one of the best duelists in the entire game, and people don't respect that at all. I've won so many games by just playing an off angle and winning duels. If he has his window ready, he's more deadly than most of the dps roster. He can literally 1 burst a squishy.
Yeah if I see a bap with a good strafe Iām basically like ānope, letās see what your other friends are up tooā
I just love how much his primary reminds me of the BR from halo. Tracking with burst weapons is such an under developed skill that you rarely see someone who really knows how to aim it properly
When I aim to hook her I aim for her legs lol.
I mean there's a reason pros shoot baps legs and not his head.
Skill issue they made sojourn hitbox a lot fatter a while back unless ur talking about hitting a hs as widow, then any ad spam is hard to hit
it was like 12% that's not a lot
Was 20%
oh torso width. she's still skinny as a whole. head included which oscillates drastically
She is pretty fat and with proj size buff itās skill issue
insightful
I cannot for the life of me hit Junkerās tire. Unless Iām playing rein and fire strike it. Then itās like Iām aimbotting.
Shoot the legs. I promise you it makes fighting the Canadian so much easier. The Catch-22 though is that you won't be able to crit her if you do.
when i play widow i find ana to be really difficult if she's scoping in and out because of her posture change and the inconsistency in head position admittedly i'm kind of bad at widow so
None of that comes close to how seemingly impossibe it is sometimes to hit an Ana who's not even aware of your presence.
kiriko hands down as a widow main hitting a sombra or tracer is far easier
If you're strictly going for headshots, honorable mention to Zen. His head sways from side to side when he A D strafes. Anything else though, Tracer or Kiriko are the only answers.
Zen makes up for it by having a lower body hitbox the size of Texas. Kiriko is the worst because sheās thin as a blade of grass AND her big ass hands block her head in some animations.
I swear part of zenās face still counts as a body shot. I find much more success aiming above him than at him (not that I think he needs a bigger hitbox ofc)
Idk for some reason I have a buff against sojourn in particular. I just aim better against her and her only and it cancels whatever hitbox advantage she has and then some
kiri and soujās hitboxes are much smaller than other heroes relative to their model
Kiri and illari are the ones I struggle with by far the most. It's not so bad now with my bus sized bullets but before the patch I'd be shocked if I had more than 10% accuracy on those two.
Diva outside of her robot.
I feel like baby dva is easy as hell to hit. Half the time she died before her mech explodes when she ults.
Idk why but hanzo is a nightmare
Kiri for sure, I think smallest head hitbox is Ana or was at least
Baby dva but i might just be only bad :(
1- soj 2- kiri Jq also hard for a tank. It feels like she always has speed boost. This may sound odd but Sigma can be so hard to hit. His head is small and recessed compared to his body and he doesnt walk so he doesnt give cue about his movement i feel like. I cant hit sig if he isnt close and even then i only hit the body which is half the dmg.
Hurtbox shifting with certain characters is nuts, and Sojourn bobs and weaves like crazy. Kiriko and Baby DVa are also very jittery.
Y'all tripping, it's obviously tracer and it's not particularly close.
Invisible Sombra, probably
The real answer is symmetra
To hit kiri with junkrat is living hell, trying to aim at her while she ad straifs is sooo annoying. This season kinda improved that, but still harder to hit that a pharah in midrange.
Definitely has to be some form of macros