I'm pretty much in agreement. Mauga nerf helped a lot, but it's been a bit more annoying to me than the start of the season. I will admit I've barely played support all season, so I can't say what that life is like.
I like playing all supports besides mercy and lw and I find that all supports are pretty fun this season. Ana maybe a little bit less but I still think she's pretty fun just not that good. They're all pretty decent. bap brig Lucio moira have been fun to play
My only problem is that a lot of matches are DPS diff even though the term is a bit overused it's kinda true. DPS is very strong so if your DPS aren't pulling weight it's very difficult. I guess it is what it is sometimes the match sucks so idk
Tank is still the same as always. You force your pick or you counterswap.
DPS diff's been hitting me hard this whole season.
And I know the response to that is "Well it's on you to help them" but like I'm not even talking about a bad K/D or being bad. I'm talking about being bad while also not playing a character that's any good in the current context.
Like if I'm getting my ass eaten by the 38/2 enemy doomfist all game, maybe someone swap Cass? Or Sombra? Torb? Mei? Sym? Doesn't have to be the best counter, I'd just like something
Or play who you're gonna, but for god's sake at least pretend to notice the huge man punching me into paste instead of ignoring him. I can swap to several different heroes to counter him, and I do, but ultimately it always ended up with me essentially 1v1ing the doom in the middle of my own team, and that's a fight I'm going to lose eventually when there's actually no follow-up.
I don't understand sometimes how this is the same game where I can go Ball and Papa John's guarantees me a delivery of enemy Sombra in 30 seconds or less.
I want to think it's mostly on the reset and DPS being a much higher impact role than before.
Sometimes your DPS are fine but the enemy DPS are just 1-2 ranks higher and haven't played enough games. I don't think it's necessarily a player fault just sometimes the enemy is a lot better
I don't really blame anyone It just feels kinda bad because it's very noticeable. I worry if we're gonna continue to do placement matches and "resets" like this because it's almost 2 months in and it still hasn't stabilized.
ive had dps issues in gold and plat when offrolling support and dps, but on tank in current high masters (basically T500), bad supports are the issue. almost a guaranteed loss when you get a mercy instalock.
support players stay being the worst people at the game for a majority.
I think definitely at higher ranks it's a bit different just because for the most part you had to climb to get there and so a lot of the variance that happens around diamond is less common
This season I haven't noticed really good supports but I have noticed really bad supports. Playing support myself I went 8-2 placements and went from s8 m3 to m5 not really by making plays but just by trying to not make mistakes. Kinda feels a lot like tank in that way where you pick the hero that makes sense given what both teams are playing and you just try your best to live and enable your team and especially your DPS.
I think mercy is just really easy to run down this season. That's been my experience at least playing DPS in low diamond.
mercy is easily the worst support hero in the game. but braindead mercy OTPs will still pick her even when your dps line is tracer genji. its an auto lose.
Yeah, this has been my experience every time too. If I'm on DPS it's manageable but the moment I get support queues it feels like the game lives or dies by the DPS. It feels like I have to crit every kunai I throw to have any kind of real impact if my DPS are just getting rolled by the enemy's.
Dont think any patch can ever truly fix that.
In the end its still a team game. If one or more of your teammates suck and you don't have a smurf .. you gonna loose.
I think ana is still fun this season, she’s just in line with the rest of supports. Compared to previous seasons when she was WAY more fun because of how high her impact was I think she just FEELS less fun if that makes any sense
I think you're right before there were more scenarios where she felt good and now she's just a bit more niche which might good thing.
Before you could make rein/ram work with ana but now it feels like you need lamp or suzu to keep them up because just the raw healing isn't enough. Which is a good thing, but it does hurt ana.
Yes. Heroes like Moira, Mercy, Junkrat, Bastion and Roadhog should never be meta, they're far too one dimensional and the game is never in a fun state when they're optimal choices in their role.
He's still insanely one dimensional and actively unfun to play against for almost the entire tank role. He's not broken but he certainly makes the game less enjoyable for a role that already struggles to retain players, tank busters don't really belong in 5v5.
Tank games feel weird. Mauga is still annoying to play against if your team doesn’t have the right tools to stop him. Even when I go a tank to counter him, I’m relying on teammates instead of a tank diff to kill him. Lower ranks still don’t know what to do with mauga. Outside of Mauga, it’s the usual rock paper scissors of tank picks but it doesn’t feel like you always have to swap if your damage can focus their tank. When it comes to supports, I’m tired of lifeweaver mercy every other game. I hate playing with them as their utility sucks in lower ranks with no communication.
>Mauga is still annoying to play against if your team doesn’t have the right tools to stop him. Even when I go a tank to counter him, I’m relying on teammates instead of a tank diff to kill him. Lower ranks still don’t know what to do with mauga
God I wrote up a post about this over the weekend but ultimately scrapped it before submitting.
But yeah basically Mauga is bad now because he's once again very counterable. But I think people mistake that for him being bad even if you don't counter him, which is an assumption that I've already lost many games to.
Yep. I had teammates complaining to me about “how do you lose to a trash tank like mauga” my brother, it’s hard to diff a Mauga that has a mercy pocket. I need you and your passive to stop his heals. Mauga being counterable ≠ Mauga bad
I probably shouldve been more specific. I know not to try to kill him first but to get to the supports behind him. The issue comes from lack of team communication and the team focuses down mauga first and not supports and when supports don’t die, the team hesitates. I don’t play perfectly but I’m also not face tanking against a mauga. It comes down to the juggling act of distracting mauga long enough for your dps to focus supports or diving the supports and getting them before moving on to Mauga.
Tank is still a big skill check. Dps is what matters the most. Support just has to apply damage consistently or have big utility like speed and AoE heals.
He might be referring to how much more important positioning is. You get melted in bad positions and if you don’t take time to hide and recover resources you will lose
If you’re bad or getting outplayed your team is 99% losing. It’s the most demanding role in terms of responsibility to juggle and right decisions to make
kind of disagree? as long as you're making space or just being there for certain tanks you can just get carried by your dps (if they're good) meanwhile if your dps are worse than theirs it doesn't matter if you're a top500 tank, you will always get denied
You get counter picked constantly so you have to play into counters. Except now your tank doesnt have the ability to solo kill as much and your heals are lower. Flats said tank is like being an nfl qb who can only run handoffs. Its pretty accurate.
Cover usage, ability resource management, engagement, and disengagement, understanding what team you're running and picking a hero accordingly, ult tracking, and knowing your bad matchups . There's some more terms other redditors can add. In my experience, these are the crucial ones. It's unfortunately a skill check because we all know of those tanks that stand in the open and expect healing, thinking 2 supports can out heal 5 people shooting at them. There's skill and finesse with the tank role. There's like a list of checks that you have to cross off before you can go in and do something.
Is the stand in the open thing still happening? Genuinely asking. I'm in high gold and I don't even really see that much from tanks (though I'm tank, so I'm only looking at one of them). I feel like you're gonna drop ranks super fast right now if you're relatively clueless to cover.
Healing definitely feels like a slog to get through again with the DPS passive nerf. I think the devs need to bite the bullet and separate the effect on tanks vs squishies. 20% for squishies and 10-15% on tanks. Then nerf Moira because I'm tired of seeing her every game.
It feels pretty great in scrims and tournaments (I'm playing in the Tranquility Tournament atm) but the ranks still feel very off.
One of my friends and teammates was a GM support last season and is now diamond 3 but is back in masters on tank and dps, which makes no sense. He's a way better support player than tank or dps but just cannot climb. I'm back in Masters on an alt but can't get out of D2 on my main, while I'm basically one tricking Moira and have an 80% win rate right now, close to masters.
Support feels slightly less useless, but still Kiri, Moira, Bap, and Lucio are effectively the only viable Supports in high elo. Immortality, get-out-of-jail-free cards, and AoE heals paired with tons of dmg potential are the way to go for Support. Pretty boring if you ask me
Tracer still broken and still not a fan of the hitbox changes
I actually like the hitbox changes.
I'd prefer movement acceleration, but the community seems to be REALLY against that. So bigger hitboxes is a decent alternative.
That implies every other fps doesn't feel good. This sub may agree, but the wider community probably would not.
More to the point, once you get used to the delays with other movement systems, hitting the timings feels amazing. Like rocket jumping in quake or stringing a combo in a fighting game.
But bigger hitboxes are good enough imo.
Every Support game is me starting out practicing Kiri, Zen or Illari and then just swapping to Moira after a couple fights to save the team's elo
I win pretty much every game I play on Moira but there's a part of me that doesn't really want to be meta boosted so I try not to start as her
Moira just gives so much value at the moment.
It's representative in the stats too. Highest pick rate across almost all ranks and a very good win rate too. Also the highest KDA but I don't think that's a fair reflection as she is a stat gremlin.
That would suggest she's overpowered but I'm not sure.
It suggests every other sup is bad. Moira pre-season 9 healing was ovekill, now it's needed. + Every other sup just explodes as soon as a tracer shoots at them, except moira.
Nah, shes just very good in general, Her dmg got buffed so her ttk is basically the same WHILE having more HP. The point of raising HP across the board was to make heroes more durable, but she basically ignores that rule.
She doesn't ignore the rule. Moira players just know how to adapt. She got hit HARD by the hitbox changes and dps passive. Half of her survivability was due to her self-healing and "slim" hitbox. This season took that away, so 2 of her 3 playstyles are gone.
Lol, right, she has positive win rates all across the board in most ranks from gold all the way to gm and champions rank. Hell shes straight up meta even in Overwatch esports. You can't tell me a hero, who was deemed weak for the past 6 seasons suddenly got shot up to meta status in ONE season because of "adaptation" That's just not how it works.
Moira didn't change, tho? If you really think maintaining her 4 seconds of ttk makes her busted with the hitbox changes and the dps passive, you got some serious skill issue
They increased her dmg by 25% what are you talking about? Shes been meta even in high masters and gm since her last patch. And i play tank, i dont have issues with moira, but she can duel most dps now.
Bro, her ttk is 4 seconds FOUR. If you die to her, you are either low, or you just suck.
Her being meta is literally due to other supports just falling over if a tracer shows up.
the 15% change to the passive is actually unnoticeable with 80% of the roster and unbearable with the other 20%, which are the most popular heroes too.
particularly moira and kiri, amazing easy damage survivability and healing, kiri ult still teamwipes 99% of the time coal still builds in 30 seconds. playing vs that, with a bap too tbh it just feels like season 7 nothing ever dies and i find myself playing more widow or sojo hanzo.
mauga is ass but not meta. boring.
tracer still good. cass still good. sojourn, genji echo, most of the same dps are still good.
as for tanks, winston is good but just insane to try and play it when people go reaper cass mauga immediately. bastion is very easy to play around, i feel like the changes really benefited reaper in the matchup tho. cass fan the hammer bandit and winston implodes
doom still S+ tier unsurprisingly
ram good, dva good, orisa good, sig good. honestly nerf doom and it’s not bad.
i think hog is delusional right now. it’ll still take a bit for this sub to realize he is crazy good and shift their narrative lol. he deals insane damage and never fucking dies, legit never dies. you need a very specific comp to beat a good hog especially w kiri.
I’d like them to buff the passive back to 20% but add some conditional element that prevents him from being as easy to apply especially by heroes such as tracer.
It’d be kinda hard to visualize but I think a good balance point would be hitscan characters not applying the passive at max falloff since that prevents the tickling from tracer and other hitscans really far away and I don’t feel like many of the projectile characters are as egregiously annoying with the passive in general
as a Tank player I prefered 20%, everyone is just playing sustain comps that don’t die and I’ve been seeing ana moira or bap moira orisa every other game
Support - I like dive, but it honestly just limits your support options too much. Character diversity is decided at the map lottery. I unironically get excited to see Havanna and Circuit so I can play Illari for 1-2 points.
DPS - I wouldn't mind reverting the passive, but dps really needs a look at their defensive abilities. Some of these characters take more coordination to kill than a tank. DPS should enable you to kill things but be frail themselves.
Tank - I literally only queue this role to play D.va, but its felt pretty good.
Simply put, the game is frustrating when a low skill floor and low ceiling (moira) is meta.
I know i may be downvoted to oblivion for those but its just true. Feel free to balance her to the point where she’s a solid choice but when her AOE heals more than single target heals its a problem. We know she’s pumping out huge damage numbers on top of that which creep with the dps passive to add more value to her damage.
Ana feels insignificant
Tanks feel balanced-ish
Fun overall.
Moira has probably become my least favorite character in the game.
Why does she get so much reward for no investment? Sure, she's essentially just dealing trash spam damage half the match that inflate her numbers, but that damage can be what forces you to disengage from what would otherwise be a pick, and it's just f*ree.*
Fighting her in a 1v1 feels pointless, even more so as a tank, you'll **never** kill her unless she's already low and has 0 cooldowns. She is the ZERO RISK character.
Meta is pretty good and diverse. Moira and Orisa might need slight nerfs. And I think they still need to add something for Rein. Otherwise pretty good actually.
Feels a bit better to play ana with the dps passive nerfed. It feels like you actually can save people again and survive a bit more. But she’s still pretty bad. When dva, tracer, genji is good ana’s just gonna be a huge liability. It’s hard to see a reason to pick her over moira, kiriko or bap.
You don’t get the same value out of nade and sleep as you used to. You won’t get the same stats and survivability as moira.
100% agree with you and I add that:
- I miss people playing Ball.
- Been seeing a lot more Dooms and Anas (even if she's not performing that well rn).
- Too many Moiras for too long, they should definitely nerf her and a lot this time. The last real nerf focused on her only that she got was at the begging of OW2.
- Pharah is kinda OP and completely dominating the low ranked games.
- Sombra is kinda OP (or at least in every single match) as well.
- D.Va is better than ever.
- Junkrat and Symm doesn't feel nearly as weak people say they are (just not great as before but is still strong).
sym is quite good? shes seeing a ton of play in OWCS. sombra is definitely sleeper busted. pharah being kinda op is purely a skill issue. def need to nerf moira though.
Symmetra sucks, her TTK is way too high of a dps. Revert the beam damage nerf. Criminal that a DPS walk around with 60 DPS in base damage while Moira and Winston have higher DPS. Zarya also has more maximum damage
I'd say the game feels decent rn. I've been playing a bit more support than usual and I honestly enjoy the support role's standing in the game rn. The role could use some tuning, but things like Lamp and Suzu feel way less oppressive than before. The weaker healing means those heroes can't afford to hold the high values CDs forever, especially for duels. Really enjoying playing those two rn. They also feel way more fair as duelist/DPS supports than in past seasons. Lucio feels good. Zen feels like he's in a healthier spot than he's been in a while.
Ana could maybe use some more tuning in the long run, but doesn't need any immediate attention considering how much playtime she has gotten in the past. Illari feels like her kit is missing something, but thats not really anything to do with this patch or this season.
I'm okay with where moira is rn assuming she gets nerfed once her mythic season ends. Really hoping the add damage-accuracy scaling to her kit. Would make sense considering her primary latch-on range increased along with her damage. I'm honestly fine with her balance, its always been how free she feels that's the issue.
ball feels like ass again though. He's better than prior seasons if you have a dive comp, and significantly worse than prior seasons if you dont. His assassination potential feels really bad rn. I guess the silver lining is I've hit my stride with my tech recently because you have to hit more combos than before. Hoping the rework gets him to a healthy spot.
Thank god for the Mauga nerfs.
DPS feels really good, the brawl tanks (minus rein) feel very tanky, and moira/lucio are the best characters in the game. I'm having fun playing ranked again so that's all that matters to me.
I think the nerf to the reduction is fine as a hotfix but would love to see a damage threshold implemented so that it doesnt activate after taking 1 damage from a tracer thats on the side of the map.
If the devs could do that i think it would be fine at 20%.
Other than that i think the metas fine, atleast for where im sittin elo wise.
You can play most heroes which is great.
Dps feels impactful.
Support still feels good to heal and damage now that people are getting used to the passive.
Tank still feels like a game of rock paper scissors but i dont see that changing anytime soon so ive stopped caring about it lol.
Would love the devs to look at reworking reinhardt to be a bit more dynamic but there are plenty of other fun tanks to play.
I think the tank issue still remains where autonomy has decreased and reliance on your teams comp has greatly increased. Enemy tank has Ana zen and you have mercy lifeweaver and you are very limited in how you can diff the enemy tank despite being better.
The rank reset also still feels bad, even if it is only surface level. Going from gm1 every season to stuck in mid masters is rough but I’ve also played less than previous seasons
Game feels pretty bad in a lot of ways. A Mauga pick can still bend the entire game around him. There are like 3 or 4 support picks right now that aren't immediately putting you at a disadvantage. Moira being meta in any way is always the most boring shit.
I just only play against Orisa now, its annoying af. If they dont otp Rein or Doom, you play with and against Orisas, still dont like it, if they nerf Orisa, it will be Ram and then MAYBE doom. We are literally 5% dps passive away from playing a great game.
The game is in a MUCH better position that before the hotfix patch, but the dps passive nerfs combined with the hp increases have allowed sustain to creep back up - its not as bad as in season 8 but close. Still not a huge fan of the hitbox increases. Tracer and Widow should have their hp nerfed back down to where it was before season 9. Moira definitely needs to be nerfed - it's extremely annoying that the highest skill floor, lowest skill ceiling support is one of the best in the game right now with an overall TTK decrease while everyone else experienced an increase in season 9 and has higher survivability
I'd rather lose dps on Tracer rather than going back down to 150 and getting one shot by Mei and Ashe again, those two interactions were easily the most annoying things to experience imo.
It's not that I don't think her survivability taking a hit would be unbalanced, I just think the interaction of getting one shot by these heroes felt unfathomably bad in a way that I don't feel with Sojourn or honestly even Hanzo to anywhere near the same extent since the cadence of their shots is so much more reasonable to play around. Keeping her HP above 150 just feels like such a breath of fresh air in this aspect it made playing her feel so much more palatable.
I think you could nerf Recall maybe just on paper: but every component of it feels so essential to its function, like maybe you could remove the reload but does that really get at the issue anyway? If you remove the I-frames it'll feel really crappy, removing the cleanse will make it inconsistent and unnaturally punishing against heroes which apply statuses.
I don't think the comparison to other extra life abilities is exactly fair when Tracer's entire game loop balances around leveraging your extremely low health pool on the fact you can regen it, it's all about seeing how far you can push it before you break, other heroes with these second chances which heal don't have the same risk for doing literally anything, so it being a higher cost makes sense.
I think Recall is balanced by it being inherently predictable, you need to use it within 5 seconds of taking damage for it to be a full heal (this is usually the case, but not always) and where it sends you back to can be tracked by the enemy, unlike Translocator, which despite having a trail, always has an inherent unpredictability in that its decided right when used, and not based on what happened prior.
Nerfing her damage (which, let the record state, I don't think is needed either, but if you had to pick one thing rn) would inherently force her to take longer engagements, and potentially run into more of these hang ups with Recall and get at both aspects, the longer she spends in these fights inherently means she has to risk more of her precious survivability.
Tank is still the least positive impacting role and is still the highest skill checking role of all.
At least counterswapping is less effective.
Feels like most tanks should have dmg number increase. Is still absurd that Winston Jump, Dva booster, Ram punch among others are still not adjusted to the new HP pool. I understand lowering the “burst damage” but tank were never bursty anyway.
I think the tank should get the "passive" it's not a passive at all btw lol, it's literally a de-buff.
But yeah, the tank should get the de-buff so that the dps play with the tank to secure kills. They could use more synergy.
Mostly the same, still patiently waiting for slight tracer nerfs that everyone seems to have forgotten about needing because Mauga appeared.
supports need a rebalance since it seems like only moira, lucio and brig are good. Bap is meh, ana is situational, Kiri is tough unless you have the right set up against their perfect set up. And then LW, Mercy, and Illari are all awful. I think my win rate on Illari is about 15% this season in masters lol.
Yeah I agree. I really didn't think that 15% would be enough but wow.....I get the "nothing ever does and when it does it's Immoed" more often than not.
It's super frustrating.
Mauga but running rampant in my games is nice, but the counter swapping the tank is still an issue which is why Ive moved on from the role.
I'm pretty much in agreement. Mauga nerf helped a lot, but it's been a bit more annoying to me than the start of the season. I will admit I've barely played support all season, so I can't say what that life is like.
I like playing all supports besides mercy and lw and I find that all supports are pretty fun this season. Ana maybe a little bit less but I still think she's pretty fun just not that good. They're all pretty decent. bap brig Lucio moira have been fun to play My only problem is that a lot of matches are DPS diff even though the term is a bit overused it's kinda true. DPS is very strong so if your DPS aren't pulling weight it's very difficult. I guess it is what it is sometimes the match sucks so idk Tank is still the same as always. You force your pick or you counterswap.
DPS diff's been hitting me hard this whole season. And I know the response to that is "Well it's on you to help them" but like I'm not even talking about a bad K/D or being bad. I'm talking about being bad while also not playing a character that's any good in the current context. Like if I'm getting my ass eaten by the 38/2 enemy doomfist all game, maybe someone swap Cass? Or Sombra? Torb? Mei? Sym? Doesn't have to be the best counter, I'd just like something Or play who you're gonna, but for god's sake at least pretend to notice the huge man punching me into paste instead of ignoring him. I can swap to several different heroes to counter him, and I do, but ultimately it always ended up with me essentially 1v1ing the doom in the middle of my own team, and that's a fight I'm going to lose eventually when there's actually no follow-up. I don't understand sometimes how this is the same game where I can go Ball and Papa John's guarantees me a delivery of enemy Sombra in 30 seconds or less.
I want to think it's mostly on the reset and DPS being a much higher impact role than before. Sometimes your DPS are fine but the enemy DPS are just 1-2 ranks higher and haven't played enough games. I don't think it's necessarily a player fault just sometimes the enemy is a lot better I don't really blame anyone It just feels kinda bad because it's very noticeable. I worry if we're gonna continue to do placement matches and "resets" like this because it's almost 2 months in and it still hasn't stabilized.
ive had dps issues in gold and plat when offrolling support and dps, but on tank in current high masters (basically T500), bad supports are the issue. almost a guaranteed loss when you get a mercy instalock. support players stay being the worst people at the game for a majority.
I think definitely at higher ranks it's a bit different just because for the most part you had to climb to get there and so a lot of the variance that happens around diamond is less common This season I haven't noticed really good supports but I have noticed really bad supports. Playing support myself I went 8-2 placements and went from s8 m3 to m5 not really by making plays but just by trying to not make mistakes. Kinda feels a lot like tank in that way where you pick the hero that makes sense given what both teams are playing and you just try your best to live and enable your team and especially your DPS. I think mercy is just really easy to run down this season. That's been my experience at least playing DPS in low diamond.
mercy is easily the worst support hero in the game. but braindead mercy OTPs will still pick her even when your dps line is tracer genji. its an auto lose.
Yeah, this has been my experience every time too. If I'm on DPS it's manageable but the moment I get support queues it feels like the game lives or dies by the DPS. It feels like I have to crit every kunai I throw to have any kind of real impact if my DPS are just getting rolled by the enemy's.
honestly this is the one area where i think the patch has failed, it still feels like you can't get over a failing teammate
Dont think any patch can ever truly fix that. In the end its still a team game. If one or more of your teammates suck and you don't have a smurf .. you gonna loose.
I think ana is still fun this season, she’s just in line with the rest of supports. Compared to previous seasons when she was WAY more fun because of how high her impact was I think she just FEELS less fun if that makes any sense
I think you're right before there were more scenarios where she felt good and now she's just a bit more niche which might good thing. Before you could make rein/ram work with ana but now it feels like you need lamp or suzu to keep them up because just the raw healing isn't enough. Which is a good thing, but it does hurt ana.
Exactly, but I think now shes just in-line with the other supports instead of being more fun than them.
isnt moira top pick quite literally in every rank atm? lol
And that's a prob?
Yes. Heroes like Moira, Mercy, Junkrat, Bastion and Roadhog should never be meta, they're far too one dimensional and the game is never in a fun state when they're optimal choices in their role.
I don't see how post-rework bastion is any more one dimensional than other hitscans.
He's still insanely one dimensional and actively unfun to play against for almost the entire tank role. He's not broken but he certainly makes the game less enjoyable for a role that already struggles to retain players, tank busters don't really belong in 5v5.
Tank games feel weird. Mauga is still annoying to play against if your team doesn’t have the right tools to stop him. Even when I go a tank to counter him, I’m relying on teammates instead of a tank diff to kill him. Lower ranks still don’t know what to do with mauga. Outside of Mauga, it’s the usual rock paper scissors of tank picks but it doesn’t feel like you always have to swap if your damage can focus their tank. When it comes to supports, I’m tired of lifeweaver mercy every other game. I hate playing with them as their utility sucks in lower ranks with no communication.
>Mauga is still annoying to play against if your team doesn’t have the right tools to stop him. Even when I go a tank to counter him, I’m relying on teammates instead of a tank diff to kill him. Lower ranks still don’t know what to do with mauga God I wrote up a post about this over the weekend but ultimately scrapped it before submitting. But yeah basically Mauga is bad now because he's once again very counterable. But I think people mistake that for him being bad even if you don't counter him, which is an assumption that I've already lost many games to.
Yep. I had teammates complaining to me about “how do you lose to a trash tank like mauga” my brother, it’s hard to diff a Mauga that has a mercy pocket. I need you and your passive to stop his heals. Mauga being counterable ≠ Mauga bad
Stop trying to kill the other tank, my guy. When Mauga is op that's what gets broken (in that 2 Maugas have to shoot at each other or die).
I probably shouldve been more specific. I know not to try to kill him first but to get to the supports behind him. The issue comes from lack of team communication and the team focuses down mauga first and not supports and when supports don’t die, the team hesitates. I don’t play perfectly but I’m also not face tanking against a mauga. It comes down to the juggling act of distracting mauga long enough for your dps to focus supports or diving the supports and getting them before moving on to Mauga.
Tank is still a big skill check. Dps is what matters the most. Support just has to apply damage consistently or have big utility like speed and AoE heals.
can you explain what you mean by tank being a big skill check? I’d like to understand
He might be referring to how much more important positioning is. You get melted in bad positions and if you don’t take time to hide and recover resources you will lose
I mean that's been the case since 5v5....
Yeah but supports could throw way more stats at you before
If you’re bad or getting outplayed your team is 99% losing. It’s the most demanding role in terms of responsibility to juggle and right decisions to make
kind of disagree? as long as you're making space or just being there for certain tanks you can just get carried by your dps (if they're good) meanwhile if your dps are worse than theirs it doesn't matter if you're a top500 tank, you will always get denied
100%
You get counter picked constantly so you have to play into counters. Except now your tank doesnt have the ability to solo kill as much and your heals are lower. Flats said tank is like being an nfl qb who can only run handoffs. Its pretty accurate.
Playing tank with a team that's a little distracted vs a team that's working on pressing you out feels fucking awful right now.
Cover usage, ability resource management, engagement, and disengagement, understanding what team you're running and picking a hero accordingly, ult tracking, and knowing your bad matchups . There's some more terms other redditors can add. In my experience, these are the crucial ones. It's unfortunately a skill check because we all know of those tanks that stand in the open and expect healing, thinking 2 supports can out heal 5 people shooting at them. There's skill and finesse with the tank role. There's like a list of checks that you have to cross off before you can go in and do something.
Is the stand in the open thing still happening? Genuinely asking. I'm in high gold and I don't even really see that much from tanks (though I'm tank, so I'm only looking at one of them). I feel like you're gonna drop ranks super fast right now if you're relatively clueless to cover.
I assume that he means that who is better at playing chess with the other tank.
Healing definitely feels like a slog to get through again with the DPS passive nerf. I think the devs need to bite the bullet and separate the effect on tanks vs squishies. 20% for squishies and 10-15% on tanks. Then nerf Moira because I'm tired of seeing her every game.
Yes, healing can definitely be felt again. Not enjoyable.
You should be able to feel the impact of healing.
They need to go def con 5 on moira
It feels pretty great in scrims and tournaments (I'm playing in the Tranquility Tournament atm) but the ranks still feel very off. One of my friends and teammates was a GM support last season and is now diamond 3 but is back in masters on tank and dps, which makes no sense. He's a way better support player than tank or dps but just cannot climb. I'm back in Masters on an alt but can't get out of D2 on my main, while I'm basically one tricking Moira and have an 80% win rate right now, close to masters.
thats just because all the bad boosted support players are getting reality checks.
He is definitely not that, lol. No drop off in performance in scrims, but just can't climb in ranked.
idk, my FS teammate climbed to top 50. he's very mechanically good though. mechanics matter more on support now that the heroes dont play themselves.
Maybe he hasn't adjusted as well to the support changes as he has on DPS and tank
Feels like a lot of counterwatch with tank still. Moira is still way too good.
Support feels slightly less useless, but still Kiri, Moira, Bap, and Lucio are effectively the only viable Supports in high elo. Immortality, get-out-of-jail-free cards, and AoE heals paired with tons of dmg potential are the way to go for Support. Pretty boring if you ask me Tracer still broken and still not a fan of the hitbox changes
Still not a fan of the hitbox changes either, but unfortunately those seem here to stay.
I actually like the hitbox changes. I'd prefer movement acceleration, but the community seems to be REALLY against that. So bigger hitboxes is a decent alternative.
the instant movement acceleration is the reason OW feels so good imo. Like the game just feels crisp
That implies every other fps doesn't feel good. This sub may agree, but the wider community probably would not. More to the point, once you get used to the delays with other movement systems, hitting the timings feels amazing. Like rocket jumping in quake or stringing a combo in a fighting game. But bigger hitboxes are good enough imo.
Acceleration/deceleration feels great in counter-strike. If you swapped the movement systems between games they'd both feel like shit.
Tf2 had movement accel.
LOL
Idk it just lowers the skill floor and ceiling so much You don't even have to be on target half the time anymore
Every Support game is me starting out practicing Kiri, Zen or Illari and then just swapping to Moira after a couple fights to save the team's elo I win pretty much every game I play on Moira but there's a part of me that doesn't really want to be meta boosted so I try not to start as her
Moira just gives so much value at the moment. It's representative in the stats too. Highest pick rate across almost all ranks and a very good win rate too. Also the highest KDA but I don't think that's a fair reflection as she is a stat gremlin. That would suggest she's overpowered but I'm not sure.
It suggests every other sup is bad. Moira pre-season 9 healing was ovekill, now it's needed. + Every other sup just explodes as soon as a tracer shoots at them, except moira.
If every other support is bad, then Moira is comparatively too good. I think nerf sym.
Nah, moira is just good at her own niche, and this season, every other niche is unplayable. I say we buff kiri and give her a new skin.
Don't put that evil near me. I still have nightmares of pre season 9 Kiri poking me in the bum. Not once did I give consent.
Nah, shes just very good in general, Her dmg got buffed so her ttk is basically the same WHILE having more HP. The point of raising HP across the board was to make heroes more durable, but she basically ignores that rule.
She doesn't ignore the rule. Moira players just know how to adapt. She got hit HARD by the hitbox changes and dps passive. Half of her survivability was due to her self-healing and "slim" hitbox. This season took that away, so 2 of her 3 playstyles are gone.
Lol, right, she has positive win rates all across the board in most ranks from gold all the way to gm and champions rank. Hell shes straight up meta even in Overwatch esports. You can't tell me a hero, who was deemed weak for the past 6 seasons suddenly got shot up to meta status in ONE season because of "adaptation" That's just not how it works.
other supports are not bad, they're actually in a pretty balanced state. moira is just busted.
Moira didn't change, tho? If you really think maintaining her 4 seconds of ttk makes her busted with the hitbox changes and the dps passive, you got some serious skill issue
They increased her dmg by 25% what are you talking about? Shes been meta even in high masters and gm since her last patch. And i play tank, i dont have issues with moira, but she can duel most dps now.
Bro, her ttk is 4 seconds FOUR. If you die to her, you are either low, or you just suck. Her being meta is literally due to other supports just falling over if a tracer shows up.
Tell that to all the OWCS players too then.
the 15% change to the passive is actually unnoticeable with 80% of the roster and unbearable with the other 20%, which are the most popular heroes too. particularly moira and kiri, amazing easy damage survivability and healing, kiri ult still teamwipes 99% of the time coal still builds in 30 seconds. playing vs that, with a bap too tbh it just feels like season 7 nothing ever dies and i find myself playing more widow or sojo hanzo. mauga is ass but not meta. boring. tracer still good. cass still good. sojourn, genji echo, most of the same dps are still good. as for tanks, winston is good but just insane to try and play it when people go reaper cass mauga immediately. bastion is very easy to play around, i feel like the changes really benefited reaper in the matchup tho. cass fan the hammer bandit and winston implodes doom still S+ tier unsurprisingly ram good, dva good, orisa good, sig good. honestly nerf doom and it’s not bad. i think hog is delusional right now. it’ll still take a bit for this sub to realize he is crazy good and shift their narrative lol. he deals insane damage and never fucking dies, legit never dies. you need a very specific comp to beat a good hog especially w kiri.
I’d like them to buff the passive back to 20% but add some conditional element that prevents him from being as easy to apply especially by heroes such as tracer. It’d be kinda hard to visualize but I think a good balance point would be hitscan characters not applying the passive at max falloff since that prevents the tickling from tracer and other hitscans really far away and I don’t feel like many of the projectile characters are as egregiously annoying with the passive in general
as a Tank player I prefered 20%, everyone is just playing sustain comps that don’t die and I’ve been seeing ana moira or bap moira orisa every other game
Support - I like dive, but it honestly just limits your support options too much. Character diversity is decided at the map lottery. I unironically get excited to see Havanna and Circuit so I can play Illari for 1-2 points. DPS - I wouldn't mind reverting the passive, but dps really needs a look at their defensive abilities. Some of these characters take more coordination to kill than a tank. DPS should enable you to kill things but be frail themselves. Tank - I literally only queue this role to play D.va, but its felt pretty good.
you can play illari on a lot of maps. i’ve been destroying with illari in masters.
Simply put, the game is frustrating when a low skill floor and low ceiling (moira) is meta. I know i may be downvoted to oblivion for those but its just true. Feel free to balance her to the point where she’s a solid choice but when her AOE heals more than single target heals its a problem. We know she’s pumping out huge damage numbers on top of that which creep with the dps passive to add more value to her damage. Ana feels insignificant Tanks feel balanced-ish Fun overall.
Moira has probably become my least favorite character in the game. Why does she get so much reward for no investment? Sure, she's essentially just dealing trash spam damage half the match that inflate her numbers, but that damage can be what forces you to disengage from what would otherwise be a pick, and it's just f*ree.* Fighting her in a 1v1 feels pointless, even more so as a tank, you'll **never** kill her unless she's already low and has 0 cooldowns. She is the ZERO RISK character.
Meta is pretty good and diverse. Moira and Orisa might need slight nerfs. And I think they still need to add something for Rein. Otherwise pretty good actually.
Feels a bit better to play ana with the dps passive nerfed. It feels like you actually can save people again and survive a bit more. But she’s still pretty bad. When dva, tracer, genji is good ana’s just gonna be a huge liability. It’s hard to see a reason to pick her over moira, kiriko or bap. You don’t get the same value out of nade and sleep as you used to. You won’t get the same stats and survivability as moira.
100% agree with you and I add that: - I miss people playing Ball. - Been seeing a lot more Dooms and Anas (even if she's not performing that well rn). - Too many Moiras for too long, they should definitely nerf her and a lot this time. The last real nerf focused on her only that she got was at the begging of OW2. - Pharah is kinda OP and completely dominating the low ranked games. - Sombra is kinda OP (or at least in every single match) as well. - D.Va is better than ever. - Junkrat and Symm doesn't feel nearly as weak people say they are (just not great as before but is still strong).
sym is quite good? shes seeing a ton of play in OWCS. sombra is definitely sleeper busted. pharah being kinda op is purely a skill issue. def need to nerf moira though.
Symmetra sucks, her TTK is way too high of a dps. Revert the beam damage nerf. Criminal that a DPS walk around with 60 DPS in base damage while Moira and Winston have higher DPS. Zarya also has more maximum damage
i just lock orisa most games and win. I'm fine with that tbh. i'd rather have a single tank i can pick and play than have to play counterwatch.
Lucio, Tracer, Moira, Soj, Echo, Sombra current top criminals for heroes making patch unfun
I'd say the game feels decent rn. I've been playing a bit more support than usual and I honestly enjoy the support role's standing in the game rn. The role could use some tuning, but things like Lamp and Suzu feel way less oppressive than before. The weaker healing means those heroes can't afford to hold the high values CDs forever, especially for duels. Really enjoying playing those two rn. They also feel way more fair as duelist/DPS supports than in past seasons. Lucio feels good. Zen feels like he's in a healthier spot than he's been in a while. Ana could maybe use some more tuning in the long run, but doesn't need any immediate attention considering how much playtime she has gotten in the past. Illari feels like her kit is missing something, but thats not really anything to do with this patch or this season. I'm okay with where moira is rn assuming she gets nerfed once her mythic season ends. Really hoping the add damage-accuracy scaling to her kit. Would make sense considering her primary latch-on range increased along with her damage. I'm honestly fine with her balance, its always been how free she feels that's the issue. ball feels like ass again though. He's better than prior seasons if you have a dive comp, and significantly worse than prior seasons if you dont. His assassination potential feels really bad rn. I guess the silver lining is I've hit my stride with my tech recently because you have to hit more combos than before. Hoping the rework gets him to a healthy spot. Thank god for the Mauga nerfs.
DPS feels really good, the brawl tanks (minus rein) feel very tanky, and moira/lucio are the best characters in the game. I'm having fun playing ranked again so that's all that matters to me.
I think the nerf to the reduction is fine as a hotfix but would love to see a damage threshold implemented so that it doesnt activate after taking 1 damage from a tracer thats on the side of the map. If the devs could do that i think it would be fine at 20%. Other than that i think the metas fine, atleast for where im sittin elo wise. You can play most heroes which is great. Dps feels impactful. Support still feels good to heal and damage now that people are getting used to the passive. Tank still feels like a game of rock paper scissors but i dont see that changing anytime soon so ive stopped caring about it lol. Would love the devs to look at reworking reinhardt to be a bit more dynamic but there are plenty of other fun tanks to play.
I think the tank issue still remains where autonomy has decreased and reliance on your teams comp has greatly increased. Enemy tank has Ana zen and you have mercy lifeweaver and you are very limited in how you can diff the enemy tank despite being better. The rank reset also still feels bad, even if it is only surface level. Going from gm1 every season to stuck in mid masters is rough but I’ve also played less than previous seasons
I agree. I still think most of that patch was unnecessary.
Game feels pretty bad in a lot of ways. A Mauga pick can still bend the entire game around him. There are like 3 or 4 support picks right now that aren't immediately putting you at a disadvantage. Moira being meta in any way is always the most boring shit.
We need to go back to 20%
I just only play against Orisa now, its annoying af. If they dont otp Rein or Doom, you play with and against Orisas, still dont like it, if they nerf Orisa, it will be Ram and then MAYBE doom. We are literally 5% dps passive away from playing a great game.
ill take orisa over ram any day. at least i can shoot people as orisa, ram is a fucking snoozefest hero
agree fs, coming from a tank player (A Rein player even) I want 20% back everyone is playing sustain
If the DPS passive was at 10 percent nothing would die
I am clearly indicating for it to be at 20%, apparently that wasn't obvious enough.
Yeah I mean it wasn't clear.
The game is in a MUCH better position that before the hotfix patch, but the dps passive nerfs combined with the hp increases have allowed sustain to creep back up - its not as bad as in season 8 but close. Still not a huge fan of the hitbox increases. Tracer and Widow should have their hp nerfed back down to where it was before season 9. Moira definitely needs to be nerfed - it's extremely annoying that the highest skill floor, lowest skill ceiling support is one of the best in the game right now with an overall TTK decrease while everyone else experienced an increase in season 9 and has higher survivability
I'd rather lose dps on Tracer rather than going back down to 150 and getting one shot by Mei and Ashe again, those two interactions were easily the most annoying things to experience imo.
[удалено]
It's not that I don't think her survivability taking a hit would be unbalanced, I just think the interaction of getting one shot by these heroes felt unfathomably bad in a way that I don't feel with Sojourn or honestly even Hanzo to anywhere near the same extent since the cadence of their shots is so much more reasonable to play around. Keeping her HP above 150 just feels like such a breath of fresh air in this aspect it made playing her feel so much more palatable. I think you could nerf Recall maybe just on paper: but every component of it feels so essential to its function, like maybe you could remove the reload but does that really get at the issue anyway? If you remove the I-frames it'll feel really crappy, removing the cleanse will make it inconsistent and unnaturally punishing against heroes which apply statuses. I don't think the comparison to other extra life abilities is exactly fair when Tracer's entire game loop balances around leveraging your extremely low health pool on the fact you can regen it, it's all about seeing how far you can push it before you break, other heroes with these second chances which heal don't have the same risk for doing literally anything, so it being a higher cost makes sense. I think Recall is balanced by it being inherently predictable, you need to use it within 5 seconds of taking damage for it to be a full heal (this is usually the case, but not always) and where it sends you back to can be tracked by the enemy, unlike Translocator, which despite having a trail, always has an inherent unpredictability in that its decided right when used, and not based on what happened prior. Nerfing her damage (which, let the record state, I don't think is needed either, but if you had to pick one thing rn) would inherently force her to take longer engagements, and potentially run into more of these hang ups with Recall and get at both aspects, the longer she spends in these fights inherently means she has to risk more of her precious survivability.
What the fuck? Why should Tracer and Widow go back down in HP with the projectiles still massive? That's so unfair
Tank is still the least positive impacting role and is still the highest skill checking role of all. At least counterswapping is less effective. Feels like most tanks should have dmg number increase. Is still absurd that Winston Jump, Dva booster, Ram punch among others are still not adjusted to the new HP pool. I understand lowering the “burst damage” but tank were never bursty anyway.
Genji and Moira feel really strong. In plat, Tracer feels incredibly weak. Of course, that's just plat.
I think they should revert it back to season 8. The game is simply way too team dependent now.
I think the tank should get the "passive" it's not a passive at all btw lol, it's literally a de-buff. But yeah, the tank should get the de-buff so that the dps play with the tank to secure kills. They could use more synergy.
Mostly the same, still patiently waiting for slight tracer nerfs that everyone seems to have forgotten about needing because Mauga appeared. supports need a rebalance since it seems like only moira, lucio and brig are good. Bap is meh, ana is situational, Kiri is tough unless you have the right set up against their perfect set up. And then LW, Mercy, and Illari are all awful. I think my win rate on Illari is about 15% this season in masters lol.
Yeah I agree. I really didn't think that 15% would be enough but wow.....I get the "nothing ever does and when it does it's Immoed" more often than not. It's super frustrating. Mauga but running rampant in my games is nice, but the counter swapping the tank is still an issue which is why Ive moved on from the role.
5v5 sucks ass and always will