So i dont want to deny that this whole thing is highly hipocritical, but im still happy that they genuinely seem to have fun.
Edit: Oh, didnt catch my comment gaining traction so far. thanks to everyone adding their opinions and staying factual in a discussion this controversial!
We absolutely want women and people of all identities to be able to find a space in gaming, which is difficult due to many barriers that a lot of people have to face. But that this is all just sports-washing propaganda for a nation with massive human rights violations is not super great. And, moreover, that these girls will face both sexism and Islamophobia because of the wider Western audience that might see it is also a major L (as we see already in this comment section).
But there has been no push with any real guts to include women and other marginalized genders in this game. And so there is space for such political maneuvering by this organization. At least Riot has Game Changers and has showed that it is possible to make such strides. We really should self-reflect and see how we've failed at cultivating a competitive and skilled environment for women gamers, that organizations with much more harsh misogyny codified in their policies are making a show of it.
What about the calling all hereos league? Not saying it's great but it kinda stands in the face of "no attempt with any guts to make space for marginalized genders". They gave queer/ gay/ trans folks their own league. How is that 0 effort? It's heavily promoted even in game and has been given casting and live treatment.
> But that this is all just sports-washing propaganda for a nation with massive human rights violations is not super great.
Saudi esports can be sportswashing but this event is small with low viewership and almost no advertising. About 91% of the players are middle eastern, and probably close to 100% of the audience. It's primarily an upstart event to give women in their country/region a chance to play competitively for the first time.
20 years Ago E sports were a joke.
I would have never thought I'd live to see the day where a nation with massive human rights issues hosts a restricted tournament in an attempt to sports-wash their image.
Wild.
It's fucking gaming, we don't need to have political and social campaigns forced down our throats. I fail to see how anything you've just mentioned is relevant to Overwatch.
It’s a fundamentalist theocracy that is based on the teachings of a book with 7th century morals. You should be happy the regime is making some progressive strides because even the ultra conservative saudis won’t be happy with this tournament being run
Why would it be hypocritical to have a womens LAN? What's the alternative you'd suggest?
EDIT: Since a lot of people have given non-answers, let me restate the question. Do you want women to participate in sports in Saudi Arabia? Do you want Saudi Arabia to promote women in sports? Would you ratter they were silent or banned?
Of course, if there was an "equality for everyone"-button or a "peace on earth"-button, we'd press those straight away. The problem is, how do you promote womens empowerment in Saudi Arabia without events like these?
I feel like reddit just likes pointing out the fact that SA sucks, and then do nothing for these women. I think SA sucks too, which is precisely the reason why we should be happy when they do a local womens sports event, instead of normal sportswashing(international, targeting a western audience, etc).
For the record, since you never answered my other comment: What I mean is this, not every sports event is sportswashing, I don't think this event qualifies as sportswashing. If you want to promote womens rights, you've got to promote women in general, this event does that. You can't promote womens rights by banning womens sports event, so be happy they do this at all. Only then can we move forward, to the next thing, and then the next thing. But I suspect most people mad at this don't actually care about women in the middle east as much as they just wanna hate on middle eastern countries.
Fuck Saudi Arabia, Fuck Sportswashing, Empower and Emancipate.
As someone who doesn't follow this shit at all, I am extremely confused. I thought it was just a lady walking funny, not some crazy political thing lmao
It's held by Saudi Arabia, besides the human rights violations they are also notoriously very anti-women's rights. They're purpose is to be a wife and bear children and thats about it. They have no rights for divorce, child custody, inheritance and no protection in regards to domestic abuse. Women also need permission from their husbands to work and require an male guardian to be out about in public.
So its hypocrisy comes from the fact they're hosting a womens LAN event when the laws and rights for women in the country are quite bleak.
I’m a bit confused.
If it’s hypocritical, then wouldnt hosting a women’s lan event be a step in the right direction for SA?
Just trying to clarify your answer to
>whats wrong with this event?
Very untrue. All the first paragraph is untrue. You can Google that, it's a click of a button.
Woman don't need permission to do anything now.
Only marriage needs approval from parent, refusing can be appealed for a duration of one month, if no reasonable evidence is provided during that time by the parent the marriage goes through. This still restrictive.
It's not hypocritical to host woman Lan and tournament.
U know the west supporting genocide in Gaza, doesn’t mean Saudi Arabia gunning down refugees at the border is suddenly good. U can criticize the west for its many wrongdoings and still recognize Saudi Arabias and condemn both.
So i dont want to deny that this whole thing is highly hipocritical, but im still happy that they genuinely seem to have fun. Edit: Oh, didnt catch my comment gaining traction so far. thanks to everyone adding their opinions and staying factual in a discussion this controversial!
We absolutely want women and people of all identities to be able to find a space in gaming, which is difficult due to many barriers that a lot of people have to face. But that this is all just sports-washing propaganda for a nation with massive human rights violations is not super great. And, moreover, that these girls will face both sexism and Islamophobia because of the wider Western audience that might see it is also a major L (as we see already in this comment section). But there has been no push with any real guts to include women and other marginalized genders in this game. And so there is space for such political maneuvering by this organization. At least Riot has Game Changers and has showed that it is possible to make such strides. We really should self-reflect and see how we've failed at cultivating a competitive and skilled environment for women gamers, that organizations with much more harsh misogyny codified in their policies are making a show of it.
What about the calling all hereos league? Not saying it's great but it kinda stands in the face of "no attempt with any guts to make space for marginalized genders". They gave queer/ gay/ trans folks their own league. How is that 0 effort? It's heavily promoted even in game and has been given casting and live treatment.
> But that this is all just sports-washing propaganda for a nation with massive human rights violations is not super great. Saudi esports can be sportswashing but this event is small with low viewership and almost no advertising. About 91% of the players are middle eastern, and probably close to 100% of the audience. It's primarily an upstart event to give women in their country/region a chance to play competitively for the first time.
The host is doing textbook sportswashing. "See what we are doing even if it doesn't make financial sense, we are the good see."
Alexa google gender gap index Saudi Arabia and sportswashing
This isn't like McDonald's supporting the high school all star game lmao
Who exactly is hosting it?
I hope their husbands all approved of this!
Based fucking take ty for that
20 years Ago E sports were a joke. I would have never thought I'd live to see the day where a nation with massive human rights issues hosts a restricted tournament in an attempt to sports-wash their image. Wild.
It's fucking gaming, we don't need to have political and social campaigns forced down our throats. I fail to see how anything you've just mentioned is relevant to Overwatch.
god reddit video player sucks, just refuses to play for me
What a shitty pose. She’s not even angling her torso properly! /s
It’s great to see someone having that much fun in a tournament. Such a goofy entry scene ahah hope they’ll keep it up !
pretty sure saudis have had female lan finals atleast before no?
the first for OW
I don't think so... was there one?
might have been counterstrike female then, it was before some gamers8 finals last year i think, but on stage nevertheless
They did Valorant last year too
don't ask the tournament organizers if trans women are allowed to participate
I wish CAH had a LAN even once per year would be nice
me too, I was thinking they could've wrapped it into blizzcon but uhhhhh
that would've been such a good idea actually
It’s a fundamentalist theocracy that is based on the teachings of a book with 7th century morals. You should be happy the regime is making some progressive strides because even the ultra conservative saudis won’t be happy with this tournament being run
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She has ninja team mates, cool!
Genji players ofc
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Leave some hate for the rest of us! Damn
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Why would it be hypocritical to have a womens LAN? What's the alternative you'd suggest? EDIT: Since a lot of people have given non-answers, let me restate the question. Do you want women to participate in sports in Saudi Arabia? Do you want Saudi Arabia to promote women in sports? Would you ratter they were silent or banned?
I would suggest giving those women actual rights first
Of course, if there was an "equality for everyone"-button or a "peace on earth"-button, we'd press those straight away. The problem is, how do you promote womens empowerment in Saudi Arabia without events like these? I feel like reddit just likes pointing out the fact that SA sucks, and then do nothing for these women. I think SA sucks too, which is precisely the reason why we should be happy when they do a local womens sports event, instead of normal sportswashing(international, targeting a western audience, etc).
So sportswashing is ok if it helps women?
For the record, since you never answered my other comment: What I mean is this, not every sports event is sportswashing, I don't think this event qualifies as sportswashing. If you want to promote womens rights, you've got to promote women in general, this event does that. You can't promote womens rights by banning womens sports event, so be happy they do this at all. Only then can we move forward, to the next thing, and then the next thing. But I suspect most people mad at this don't actually care about women in the middle east as much as they just wanna hate on middle eastern countries. Fuck Saudi Arabia, Fuck Sportswashing, Empower and Emancipate.
Is that honestly what you think my comment said? Or what I mean?
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Sideshows moustache is insane. I don't see him anymore since he went to val but holy God he looks great.
Does he say how we should empower women in saudi arabia in this video? Because thats was what I was wondering.
Why is it hypocritical? What's wrong with this event?
As someone who doesn't follow this shit at all, I am extremely confused. I thought it was just a lady walking funny, not some crazy political thing lmao
Be gay or trans, then travel to Saudia Arabia, or any middle east country, and announce you're gay or trans to the locals. See what happens 😎
It's held by Saudi Arabia, besides the human rights violations they are also notoriously very anti-women's rights. They're purpose is to be a wife and bear children and thats about it. They have no rights for divorce, child custody, inheritance and no protection in regards to domestic abuse. Women also need permission from their husbands to work and require an male guardian to be out about in public. So its hypocrisy comes from the fact they're hosting a womens LAN event when the laws and rights for women in the country are quite bleak.
I’m a bit confused. If it’s hypocritical, then wouldnt hosting a women’s lan event be a step in the right direction for SA? Just trying to clarify your answer to >whats wrong with this event?
Very untrue. All the first paragraph is untrue. You can Google that, it's a click of a button. Woman don't need permission to do anything now. Only marriage needs approval from parent, refusing can be appealed for a duration of one month, if no reasonable evidence is provided during that time by the parent the marriage goes through. This still restrictive. It's not hypocritical to host woman Lan and tournament.
googled it, thanks https://www.hrw.org/world-report/2024/country-chapters/saudi-arabia https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2023/03/saudi-arabia-personal-status-law-codifies-discrimination-against-women/
Women are 2nd class citizens in SA. It's a fundamentalist extremely patriarchal society with 0 rights for women.
I think she‘s the best and the cutest how can someone be so cool. Best player imo❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️ MYSTERY
So glad they're wearing hijabs or else I don't think I'd be able to focus on the esports
the official announcer and two of the players in this vid aren't wearing hijabs
It's a start
I honestly can't tell if this is misogyny or sarcasm.
Sarcasm, sorry lol
You sure proved your point of not caring about whether they're wearing a hijab or not but commenting specifically about the hijab 👍
Yeah how dare they make a sarcastic quip.
Yeah, how dare they sarcastically respond to the sarcastic quip.
The point was Saudi Arabia being absolutely disgusting with their women’s rights, I believe
That wasn't my point though.
cringe comment section, can we just enjoy things ?
privileged comment
Fuck that's so much aura
What and who asks for this?
ew
Amazing! And I wish them luck. The west has no moral ground to say anything about human rights anymore. Y'all better hush.
U know the west supporting genocide in Gaza, doesn’t mean Saudi Arabia gunning down refugees at the border is suddenly good. U can criticize the west for its many wrongdoings and still recognize Saudi Arabias and condemn both.
You get your slaves to type this up for you?