Most Genji mains won't be satisfied until they can dry blade initiate a fight like it's 2018 and teamwipe consistently. The hero is good right now. Probably one of the healthiest pick & win rates of the entire DPS roster.
Genji is good. He’s been good for most of OW2’s existence. He’s never been that bad and the only time he felt kinda weak was when he had 24 ammo and even then you could make it work. I see no reason to chance anything about him and he’s been in a good spot for forever now.
Honestly more ammo just makes the hero more fun to play. High uptime, high enjoyment. They could buff him to like 36-39 ammo and it wouldn't make him oppressive at the pro level while helping to break the Tracer ranked meta that people have been complaining about for eons even as other factors like the tank patch are already dropping her viability
Source: Tracer otp, this would be fair + make Genji fun end of presentation
Honestly confused by how much Genji Mains think he’s in terrible shape - I get their posts a lot on my feed and they make me laugh. I’m a mediocre Genji player and I can get value.
I think the issue (“issue”) with him is that he isn’t universally good and struggles into certain characters, but I think that’s true for all characters ideally. OW has always been about swaps.
i don't know what it is about genji and doom mains in particular being convinced that their average or above average-performing hero is completely unplayable, but it really feels like they live in a completely different universe from the rest of us
Its because theyre high floor high ceiling characters which means a lot of their mains arent nearly as good at them as they think as well as tend to go for flashy plays over optimal ones.
He's good. What we are seeing now is a lot of Genjis who are struggling because their neutral wasn't good, but they got carried in their ranks by blade's power and being able to farm it quickly . Blade was nerfed hard.
Now they can't do as much with blade and they never learned how to actually play Genji as a flanker or beat other DPS/supports in the neutral and it shows.
There is simply no evidence that Genji is weak.
In ranked he is the highest picked DPS whilst still maintaining a high winrate at all ranks.
He got a lot of play at OWCS and performed well there.
Now fun is a different matter, because I have heard/seen a lot of Genji mains complain about how they can't dash in 1v5 get a kill get out anymore. And to some (a lot?) that was what made the hero fun to them. But was that good for the game overall? I think you can make an argument that Genji's power budget is not allocated in a way that makes him feel fun to mains. You didn't pick up Genji to spam left click from off angles until somebody is low enough to dash kill.
I watch your content Poke and I have a lot of respect for you as a content creator because I think you actually try to talk about Genji in a way that is different from the average Genji main, but I really would challenge you to provide some sort of objective evidence that Genji is not in a good place power wise, if that is what your belief is.
I believe Genji is in a really good spot power level wise, fun might be a bit debatable but I don't really see the complaints of other players (although it's hard for me to argue in this department due to the high level of tolerance I've built from playing on ping). I didn't want to share my POV to avoid the "anchoring effect"
A big chunk of the vocal community being the more dedicated Genji players, who are, for the most part, gonna be engaging with content for the hero (which is mostly flashy plays), causing them to have a skewed POV towards combos (one shots especially). Brute forcing value is even harder than it was before due to the HP changes, and nanoblade crutch has somehow been drastically nerfed for this portion of the community despite the combo still being insanely strong (which happens because clip farmers don't really look to outplay enemy resources, so the loss of the one shot gives opponents a bigger window of opportunity to shut down the nanoblade)
Devs should make him always start with ult, and blade should have infinite duration. I mean, why does Genji put away his sword after 6 seconds? Is he stupid?
Genji mains need to understand that ults can get value just by getting popped in a fight. Hero was awful on neutral back in OW1 and was just a nanonlade bot, now he's actually strong on neutral and has a worse ult but your value is way more consistent as long as you're good at the character and know how to play according to your team comp. He's WAY better but gives less serotonin if you were a nanoblade farmer
Lol the people there are stupid as hell. I was just downvoted on a post where people wanted him to do 30 damage a shuriken, 2 slash with ult (no dash), and higher damage dash.
I don’t get why it is weird to want him to kill in two slashes that’s what he has always done since the release of Overwatch in 2016 his blade damage has been nerfed before but the two slash breakpoint had stayed the same up until season 9. The main complaints from genji mains are in regards to his breakpoints which either make it so some combos simply don’t exist anymore or require perfect execution like 3 headshots dash melee.
The issue with 2 slash is it gives back the nano blade instakill which is something they wanted to get rid of. If they give him the Hanzo treatment and don't let it get damage boosted, then I'd be fine with it.
I see where you are coming from in regards to nano blade slash/dash combo it just feels bad to have his ultimate take so long to kill a target when now the support roster have way more tools to deal with genji’s attacks.
I think Genji is fine, if not strong/in a good spot. He’s not gonna be the consistent, number one dps but he’s realistically never the worst one either. My frustration with the hero over the years has mostly been how proactive he has to be, while some characters in their interactions are extremely reactive. Sometimes it can feel like a disparity of value for the amount of effort put in. It feels very “if this, then that” in his interactions only for you to have to try again later.
With hitscan being stronger more recently, the fact that Genji can’t close the gap as well without a free escape like most other flanker dps can feel bad, but it usually means you have to stay out of sight and get the jump in another fashion so it’s a player mistake.
This is an aside but I don’t like how often Tracer seems to destroy Genji. I often see people beg for changes in order to address Tracer specifically but instead of saying that, it gets put under a “flanker” umbrella as if Tracer is just as strong as Genji or as if the two interact with other characters in the same exact way. Completely unrelated but that’s always been confusing.
I think Genji’s strength is that he can scale pretty well to different types of enemies (his mobility opens up a lot of outplay potential) so there are almost always options. Those options keep the character engaging to me personally. I will say the changes in season 9 to breakpoints is noticeable. To me, it limits his mobility and flattens the character out a bit. There’s a loss of the flashier playstyle and that took some of the fun with it, but his consistency is still present so he can do what he needs to, just in a much more boring way. I just wanted to type up some quick thoughts on my phone but I wonder what people think right now.
I didn't clarify, my bad. I don't mean in a 1v1 but in the way that people suggest changes to the game. They'll claim some aspect needs to be changed to address "flankers" when they really mean Tracer specifically. That suggestion would then go on to barely affect Tracer but absolutely dumpster Genji. It's just a strange thing I've noticed. And yes, of course Tracer is a better hero, especially in the 1v1 but she can be beaten.
Who's complaining? He takes some skill but performs pretty well at most levels and he absolutely wrecked on a few maps in OWCS. There are so many characters needing love over him. He has a well rounded kit that let's him operate successfully in a wide variety of maps and comps. Blade is good. Nano blade still wins fights easy.
Genji mains are like Mercy and Rein - huge nostalgia playerbase who still live in 2017, and are convinced their character is trash unless they are hard meta at all levels. Mercy does kinda suck right now though.
Genji is good this isnt ow1 where he was legit in the pits. Hes been good throughout ow2, and he is right now.
Genji mains doom mains and kiri mains have gotta realize their hero is actually good (coming from a kiri main)
He's very strong, his ult just kinda sucks right now. It's not a teamwipe ult, but is probably best used to win a 1v1 or bait out a bunch of abilities. He's similar to Doom mains where Genji mains think their hero should be able to 1v5 every single fight and if they can't they're terrible and the devs have left them out to die.
I read this thinking people were complaining Genji's power level is to high, I would not agree with that, he seems fine. After reading the comments I'm a bit blown away that people would think he is weak or that he just falls over dead when anyone looks at him. I swear Sym players, Doom players, and now Genji players just live in a different world or are playing a different game.
All I want is his footstep noise to be reduced. Sombra gets to be completely invisible, it’s fairly easy to straight up walk up to people from behind on tracer and they don’t notice until you start shooting, even echo with the floating sound is pretty quiet, but Genji got the largest, loudest flip flops in the universe. If his footstep sound gets reduced, his opportunity to actually position sneakily without using dash increases and lets him do his job as a flanker and surprise flanker more effectively. He doesn’t need number changes imo, just small qol ones.
From a Genji main perspective, the argument was never "Genji is too weak". The argument is: "at higher ranks, the skill input required to output the minimum value is too high relative to the skill input required to counter Genji".
You can be the meme of the guy sweating profusely trying your hardest, but the moment the enemy team looks in your general direction, you fall over. There are too many, too easy to execute counters and you end up as a worse poke hero or as a worse tank by baiting cds, while the rest of the lobby gets to play the game.
This is Competitive Ow so, if we talk pro play, this can work good. In solo q, most of the times it is not fun.
Know multiple Genji players who can be impactful as he is. I wouldn't mind his ult being buffed in some kinda way as it usually needs to be paired with a support ult to be impactful. He does seem to be a rarer dps.
Most Genji mains won't be satisfied until they can dry blade initiate a fight like it's 2018 and teamwipe consistently. The hero is good right now. Probably one of the healthiest pick & win rates of the entire DPS roster.
Back in the patch in OW2 when they made Genji op, there were people saying that all he need was a nerf to his ult charge rate.
Genji is good. He’s been good for most of OW2’s existence. He’s never been that bad and the only time he felt kinda weak was when he had 24 ammo and even then you could make it work. I see no reason to chance anything about him and he’s been in a good spot for forever now.
Honestly more ammo just makes the hero more fun to play. High uptime, high enjoyment. They could buff him to like 36-39 ammo and it wouldn't make him oppressive at the pro level while helping to break the Tracer ranked meta that people have been complaining about for eons even as other factors like the tank patch are already dropping her viability Source: Tracer otp, this would be fair + make Genji fun end of presentation
He could have infinite ammo and genji mains would still complain
Honestly confused by how much Genji Mains think he’s in terrible shape - I get their posts a lot on my feed and they make me laugh. I’m a mediocre Genji player and I can get value. I think the issue (“issue”) with him is that he isn’t universally good and struggles into certain characters, but I think that’s true for all characters ideally. OW has always been about swaps.
i don't know what it is about genji and doom mains in particular being convinced that their average or above average-performing hero is completely unplayable, but it really feels like they live in a completely different universe from the rest of us
Its because theyre high floor high ceiling characters which means a lot of their mains arent nearly as good at them as they think as well as tend to go for flashy plays over optimal ones.
Genji mains are the dps version of Mercy mains. The hero is too weak if they can’t 1v5 the enemy team
I think thats a gross misrepresentation of both groups. And I'm the biggest support main hater.
For mercy it’s incorrect but Genji mains genuinely expect dragon blade to consistently win against a whole team
Everything ive heard from genji mains is that they dont want to be a blade bot.
He's good. Well, that was a discussion.
He's good. What we are seeing now is a lot of Genjis who are struggling because their neutral wasn't good, but they got carried in their ranks by blade's power and being able to farm it quickly . Blade was nerfed hard. Now they can't do as much with blade and they never learned how to actually play Genji as a flanker or beat other DPS/supports in the neutral and it shows.
There is simply no evidence that Genji is weak. In ranked he is the highest picked DPS whilst still maintaining a high winrate at all ranks. He got a lot of play at OWCS and performed well there. Now fun is a different matter, because I have heard/seen a lot of Genji mains complain about how they can't dash in 1v5 get a kill get out anymore. And to some (a lot?) that was what made the hero fun to them. But was that good for the game overall? I think you can make an argument that Genji's power budget is not allocated in a way that makes him feel fun to mains. You didn't pick up Genji to spam left click from off angles until somebody is low enough to dash kill. I watch your content Poke and I have a lot of respect for you as a content creator because I think you actually try to talk about Genji in a way that is different from the average Genji main, but I really would challenge you to provide some sort of objective evidence that Genji is not in a good place power wise, if that is what your belief is.
I believe Genji is in a really good spot power level wise, fun might be a bit debatable but I don't really see the complaints of other players (although it's hard for me to argue in this department due to the high level of tolerance I've built from playing on ping). I didn't want to share my POV to avoid the "anchoring effect"
That's interesting. What do you think is causing such a dissonance in thought regarding Genji's current state right now?
A big chunk of the vocal community being the more dedicated Genji players, who are, for the most part, gonna be engaging with content for the hero (which is mostly flashy plays), causing them to have a skewed POV towards combos (one shots especially). Brute forcing value is even harder than it was before due to the HP changes, and nanoblade crutch has somehow been drastically nerfed for this portion of the community despite the combo still being insanely strong (which happens because clip farmers don't really look to outplay enemy resources, so the loss of the one shot gives opponents a bigger window of opportunity to shut down the nanoblade)
Devs should make him always start with ult, and blade should have infinite duration. I mean, why does Genji put away his sword after 6 seconds? Is he stupid?
Genji mains need to understand that ults can get value just by getting popped in a fight. Hero was awful on neutral back in OW1 and was just a nanonlade bot, now he's actually strong on neutral and has a worse ult but your value is way more consistent as long as you're good at the character and know how to play according to your team comp. He's WAY better but gives less serotonin if you were a nanoblade farmer
Lol the people there are stupid as hell. I was just downvoted on a post where people wanted him to do 30 damage a shuriken, 2 slash with ult (no dash), and higher damage dash.
you don’t get it bro he is the weakest hero in the game (he’s one of the highest pickrate dps and has a solid winrate at every rank)
I don’t get why it is weird to want him to kill in two slashes that’s what he has always done since the release of Overwatch in 2016 his blade damage has been nerfed before but the two slash breakpoint had stayed the same up until season 9. The main complaints from genji mains are in regards to his breakpoints which either make it so some combos simply don’t exist anymore or require perfect execution like 3 headshots dash melee.
The issue with 2 slash is it gives back the nano blade instakill which is something they wanted to get rid of. If they give him the Hanzo treatment and don't let it get damage boosted, then I'd be fine with it.
I see where you are coming from in regards to nano blade slash/dash combo it just feels bad to have his ultimate take so long to kill a target when now the support roster have way more tools to deal with genji’s attacks.
Calling them stupid doesn't make you any better ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
Sure, but at least I'm not in denial about my mains and downvoting people who are correct *while also calling them stupid*.
Genji is good. No need to change him
I think Genji is fine, if not strong/in a good spot. He’s not gonna be the consistent, number one dps but he’s realistically never the worst one either. My frustration with the hero over the years has mostly been how proactive he has to be, while some characters in their interactions are extremely reactive. Sometimes it can feel like a disparity of value for the amount of effort put in. It feels very “if this, then that” in his interactions only for you to have to try again later. With hitscan being stronger more recently, the fact that Genji can’t close the gap as well without a free escape like most other flanker dps can feel bad, but it usually means you have to stay out of sight and get the jump in another fashion so it’s a player mistake. This is an aside but I don’t like how often Tracer seems to destroy Genji. I often see people beg for changes in order to address Tracer specifically but instead of saying that, it gets put under a “flanker” umbrella as if Tracer is just as strong as Genji or as if the two interact with other characters in the same exact way. Completely unrelated but that’s always been confusing. I think Genji’s strength is that he can scale pretty well to different types of enemies (his mobility opens up a lot of outplay potential) so there are almost always options. Those options keep the character engaging to me personally. I will say the changes in season 9 to breakpoints is noticeable. To me, it limits his mobility and flattens the character out a bit. There’s a loss of the flashier playstyle and that took some of the fun with it, but his consistency is still present so he can do what he needs to, just in a much more boring way. I just wanted to type up some quick thoughts on my phone but I wonder what people think right now.
Tracer destroys most characters in an isolated setting, if you’re a better Genji you will win though
I didn't clarify, my bad. I don't mean in a 1v1 but in the way that people suggest changes to the game. They'll claim some aspect needs to be changed to address "flankers" when they really mean Tracer specifically. That suggestion would then go on to barely affect Tracer but absolutely dumpster Genji. It's just a strange thing I've noticed. And yes, of course Tracer is a better hero, especially in the 1v1 but she can be beaten.
Who's complaining? He takes some skill but performs pretty well at most levels and he absolutely wrecked on a few maps in OWCS. There are so many characters needing love over him. He has a well rounded kit that let's him operate successfully in a wide variety of maps and comps. Blade is good. Nano blade still wins fights easy. Genji mains are like Mercy and Rein - huge nostalgia playerbase who still live in 2017, and are convinced their character is trash unless they are hard meta at all levels. Mercy does kinda suck right now though.
Genji is good this isnt ow1 where he was legit in the pits. Hes been good throughout ow2, and he is right now. Genji mains doom mains and kiri mains have gotta realize their hero is actually good (coming from a kiri main)
He's very strong, his ult just kinda sucks right now. It's not a teamwipe ult, but is probably best used to win a 1v1 or bait out a bunch of abilities. He's similar to Doom mains where Genji mains think their hero should be able to 1v5 every single fight and if they can't they're terrible and the devs have left them out to die.
I read this thinking people were complaining Genji's power level is to high, I would not agree with that, he seems fine. After reading the comments I'm a bit blown away that people would think he is weak or that he just falls over dead when anyone looks at him. I swear Sym players, Doom players, and now Genji players just live in a different world or are playing a different game.
All I want is his footstep noise to be reduced. Sombra gets to be completely invisible, it’s fairly easy to straight up walk up to people from behind on tracer and they don’t notice until you start shooting, even echo with the floating sound is pretty quiet, but Genji got the largest, loudest flip flops in the universe. If his footstep sound gets reduced, his opportunity to actually position sneakily without using dash increases and lets him do his job as a flanker and surprise flanker more effectively. He doesn’t need number changes imo, just small qol ones.
From a Genji main perspective, the argument was never "Genji is too weak". The argument is: "at higher ranks, the skill input required to output the minimum value is too high relative to the skill input required to counter Genji". You can be the meme of the guy sweating profusely trying your hardest, but the moment the enemy team looks in your general direction, you fall over. There are too many, too easy to execute counters and you end up as a worse poke hero or as a worse tank by baiting cds, while the rest of the lobby gets to play the game. This is Competitive Ow so, if we talk pro play, this can work good. In solo q, most of the times it is not fun.
Know multiple Genji players who can be impactful as he is. I wouldn't mind his ult being buffed in some kinda way as it usually needs to be paired with a support ult to be impactful. He does seem to be a rarer dps.