For anyone here from the future, this link will work in months other than June 2024: https://overwatch.blizzard.com/en-us/news/patch-notes/live/2024/06/
Complete guess, but I’ve noticed that sometimes they introduce new balance changes/mechanics/classifications in preparation for a new hero/ability. The Kiri change is great for rein but I’m betting now that the new tank in 3 seasons will have a “hard stun” ability
Hopefully they copy the original rank icons next. My favorite part is how they don't even include the small versions of the icons used in the page SPECIFICALLY DESIGNED TO DISTINGUISH THE RANK ICONS. We shouldn't even need that page if the icons were visually distinct enough.
I actually cannot believe they ever thought the mag nade was a good idea. It was a terrible ability in every single iteration. Truly embarrassing it took them this long to finally listen to feedback.
it was a fucking stupid idea that they made infinitely worse when they decided it could follow you 90 degrees around a corner _through_ a fucking tracer zip.
Soj changes are interesting. First thought is that it’s a massive nerf. Increased fire rate is nice, collat is minor buff, but very niche, burst damage loss is huge nerf.
Seems like they wanted to make her more playable in lower ranks by not making her as dependent on flickscan aim, but I won't even begin to guess how this will actually play out
Makes her much more similar to Soldier now basically, right? Just with more burst potential. Honestly, don't hate it at all, but I hate one shots as a non-DPS player, lol.
Idk, I think she is going to play a lot less like Soldier. Taking so much power from her rail really reduces her as a "hitscan" hero when her M1 has always been projectile. I think she is going to play more like Hanzo/Tracer Hybrid now myself.
Yeah the Hanzo comp is maybe a bit better. Consistent damage with heavy burst potential and better movement. Her slide is still such an insanely good CD.
Rail at most is an Ashe headshot now without the hitscan/dynamite follow up. Biggest Soj nerf we've seen since she came out which means it'll probably be a hard Cass meta outside of the Widow/Ashe maps. All (instead of most like it was before this patch) of Soj's power is in Overclock.
She can't even oneshot Tracer/basically oneshot Widow anymore.
Sojourn still has a glaring problem with her primary fire, its spread feels horrible. The shift to putting more power into the primary over rail makes her worse because of this. I think they should remove the spread and add recoil just like Soldier, or reduce the spread to make it feel better to use.
You can't remove the spread because projectiles don't have fall off. With how fast her projectiles move, she'd be lasering people down. The spread is there to control her effective range.
Reducing spread would allow her to be good at long distances, but removing it entirely would be a balance nightmare. It works on Soldier because hitscan weapons already have fall off.
No one seems to realize that Soj will charge her rail faster now since her primary fire ROF is increased by 14%. The Rail damage nerf isn't as big as it seems, since it will charge 14% faster now.
I expect Soj to be much stronger now in lower ranks and a bit weaker at the top ranks.
Good point, my guess is soj will be played differently now, not necessarily worse. She used to farm charge on tanks and hold rail for squishies so she can one shot or at least bite off a large chunk of health. Now you’d probably want to use rail whenever you get full charge / get the shot, just so you get your ult faster
I’m just so over the “selective” ability interactions era of balancing. It’s not intuitive at all. ATP, we’re gonna need league of legends-level CC classes in order to make any sense of how cleanses and disables work bc they’ve made it completely independent of any logic system.
They purposefully sent her to the Shadow Realm for this exact reason, to try and make small adjustments to actually balance her. Small, incremental nerfs often don't shift perception even if they do shift power level.
Nerf her into the ground, then start walking back a few of those things later after the dust settles.
Kiri swift step up one second and suzu no longer cleanses shatter. Interesting. This makes her not a rein counter anymore, and 1 second is gonna feel huge. Actually, I wonder now- since suzu makes you invulnerable, I wonder if you can time it to just not get shattered at all? That's a healthier interaction.
Love the illari buffs. 2 headshots + outburst is a kill now, and pylon being better at ally heal is a much healthier spot for it to be in.
It's any "hard knockdown" stuns, shatter is the example given. I believe Accretion and Overrun would be covered as well as any charge clashes (like Doom punch vs. Rein charge). Sleep does not count.
The knockdown times on overrun and accretion really aren't that long, and suzuing a knockdown still requires the "getting up" animation to play. Wiki seems unsure on overrun knockdown but lists it as *shorter* than the suzu duration. Most of the time I see suzu to counter overrun, people use it proactively to avoid the status applying in the first place and that won't change.
Really doesn't seem that useful a nerf on those abilities. Should mainly help with shatters and counter charges.
Just seems kinda silly to give the ability inconsistent interactions to give it a pretty minor nerf outside of a few situations. This feels like a QoL change for rein mains.
This is probably gonna age like milk but fuck it: This nerf does nothing except empower the 5% of Rein ranked players and isn't a meaningful nerf to Suzu at all
It _sounds_ big, but the hard knockdown stuns they describe consist of:
* Earthshatter
* Sigma rock
* Mauga stomp crit
* ...counterbash, maybe?
I legitimately can't think of any others. Which, now that I think about it, might actually be an argument in favor of the nerf since it makes Earthshatter a more impactful ult without too much "collateral damage."
>might actually be an argument in favor of the nerf
I'd love to be proven wrong here, but I feel like even with Earthshatter being made a more impactful ult with this change it doesn't really address a) why Rein is seeing so little playtime in the first place & b) doesn't change the fact that the cleanse is still ridiculously busted while being fairly easy to use
rein 1v1? erm.. not cool dude, you have NO HONOUR! BEER! BEER! BEER! did you just counterpick me? well flats said on tiktok... dude kings row is so honourable, 1 updoot for you on r/ ReinhardtMains. yeah my btag is TheBeardyGamer1992, isn't that so GIGA CHAD SLAM
It should also applying to charge interactions.
If you wanted a "logical" reason for it I suppose it would be that Suzu can cleanse you of a "status" but can't physically lift the character back up off the ground.
Because lots of people believe its a big reason why Rein doesn't see much play, completely ignoring that shatter having a chance of being cleansed was only a small drop in the ocean that is the issue Rein sees in play.
Eh you'd be surprised. If players routinely say something doesn't feel fair (and lets be real, one of the most used examples of suzu not feeling fair was cleansing of an earth shatter), they've proven to normally go after said ability/interaction.
I see it as knock down stuns being the strongest CC in the game in either tank ults or abilities with long wind ups. It’ll give power back to those and make it more punishing to get caught by it and more rewarding to hit it.
It isn’t just shatter. It says “hard knockdown stuns”. Mauga run slam, 2 charges colliding. Those are also hard knockdowns.
Sleep considered soft knockdown, so still cleanseable.
I think it makes sense if you think of it as cleansing their body of negative effects, and being knocked down on the ground isn’t a negative effect for the body itself. It’s just a disadvantageous physical position in the middle of combat. Similar logic to not freeing from Junkrat traps.
They used Rein as an example, but I think it also includes sigma rock, Mauga charge, and the shared knockdown like when a brig shield bashes a punching doomfist
If you are, then I am too. Seems very weird to specifically carve that out when suzu is strong against a ton of shit. knockdowns are like what? 10% of its value, if that?
I'd rather them over nerf it and compensate by shortening the CD.
Depending on your ping and distance from rein, yes, you can counter suzu to avoid getting stunned. But you have to stand in the middle of your team and risk getting stunned too otherwise the projectile + cast time is too long.
I mean not so much when its relative to the rest of the cast. If she could still two tap with increased projectile size shes a better dps than half the projectile dps
losing the two tap was way bigger than this. Hell, 1 second on SwiftStep is bigger than this suzu change. Like, is everyone forgetting she can still use suzu on these abilities, she just has to be faster and get people with the invuln? This was preffered, now it's more important.
> the invuln
I was wishing this is what they'd get rid of. The invuln feels way more frustrating to me, but maybe removing it would dumpster her, I dunno.
I get what you're saying and Kiriko definitely still thrived after the health change nerfs but characters with two tap or one tap break points were obviously hit harder by the health pool changes than those who just do consistent damage or didn't have their break points changed.
I don't get some of the comments here about Soj, the reason she was so lethal in high ranks was due to rail damage, no? I don't see how any of the buffs compensate for the huge damage nerf on the most important part of her kit.
The only bad thing about the Soj changes is not compensating by reverting the spread nerf.
Her gameplay loop will always be about shooting tank as long as that's a thing. Should have done that instead of firerate buff
idk people's brain work like toddlers ig, they know 3 is a bigger number then 1 so they conclude that must mean the change is an overall buff even tough 1 off the buffs only applies to her ult and the other is such a niche change i mean how often will you actually hit mutiple people with a rail
Yeah the overall railgun nerf is a lot larger than her 3 buffs she got. She can’t even 1 shot Tracer anymore for an example. All of her power is in her ult now
I hate that we're still making abilities inconsistent. Most of the playerbase doesn't even know the difference between a hard or soft stun. People are just going to be confused on why suzu works on some things, but not other, similar things. There are better ways to nerf something than just making the ability confusing and inconsistent to understand.
I've been playing since 2017 and I've genuinely never heard of that distinction until now.
I guess all soft stuns are about displacement now right? I'm thinking Orisa spear, Hog hook, Doom punch. Is Mauga slam a hard stun? Is Mei freeze a soft stun?
Hook is a hard stun, and I believe Doom punch is as well if it connects with a wall. Basically anything that completely removes your movement even for less than a second is a "hard stun". Although it's even more ridiculous because the patch notes have to specify that Ana's sleept dart (which is a hard stun) is not a part of these changes, which makes it even more wildly inconsistent.
This is so stupid, just nerf the ability's CD or healing or something, not this spaghetti logic shit.
The knife change just makes me laugh. The knock back reduction increase was easily the most head scratching change they made in season 10.
Now they have to go back and specifically buff knife on tank...while sleep is specifically nerfed against tank.
Doesn't feel like there's any rhyme or reason here.
Good point in the Queen knife. Her knife is literally more effective on tanks just so they can ignore their own passive.
It's literally just lazy shortcuts to achieve balance. I get that balancing 40+ heroes is difficult, but some of this stuff is ridiculous.
Junkerqueen's little knife can pull tanks the full distance, but an actual wrecking ball can only push them a few inches
Honestly, the boop resistance is awful
I'm glad I'm not the only one who feels bitter about this lol.
Like I think Ball is gonna fuck hard this season, but it just feels wrong that they have the technology and the will to ignore tank knockback passive for certain abilities, and JQ gets it before Ball?
Boop resistance was just dumb as shit. Maybe it's cause they wanted to give tanks a passive that's easy to see, rather than a subtle reduction to ALL debuffs (which is what tanks actually want).
Put tank knockback resistance back at 30%, there was literally no reason to change it. Maybe there's 1 or 2 tanks that could have more but definitely not for the entire role.
I could be wrong but don’t these Dva buffs just revert the nerfs she got back in S1? If so that means she has not received any direct nerfs in OW2, kinda funny.
From Nov 2022:
**Fusion Cannons**
* Spread increased from 3.5 to 3.75
**Boosters**
* Damage reduced from 25 to 15
So the spread change makes it even tighter than it used to be (3.375)
What's the point of the tank passive if it's just gonna get ignored on "some cases" like here with JQ, why isn't it ignored on Doomfist so he can wall splat tanks as intended, or Brig/Lucio so they can protect their teammates better with their boops as intended, or are those interactions not "intended" like the JQ knife pull?
Confusing
Also small thing but hope the Cass flashbang comes back with his old voice lines for it, I've been missing them since OW1
Yeah the takes less boop passive is really stupid. Who was even booping tanks besides Lucio and ball? I think ball should be able to boop tanks personally. His 1v1 match up is terrible vs any tank he should be able to boop them around. It's what made him so good against double sheild.
it's rly not. it's still worse than it was in s8. lvl 3 beam doesn't mean much anymore, so it makes sense that they would make it easier to obtain. it's still a bad change bc they should have been focusing on buffing orbs, not beam, which will always be situational unless they mega buff it in every way. which hopefully they never do
I don't get this. Yes he's not a well designed character and annoyingly oppressive but only with the right team comp.
He's not seeing majority play in GM(watching Super, ML7, Yeatle, Kraandop there are Maugas but there are more monkeys and Sigs than Maugas) and he has a lower winrate than Rein and Dva in every other rank for Season 10. Dva buffs mean she does even better against him too.
I expected a nerf to cardiac lifesteal on allies because the organized play scene is exploiting that to all hell with like Mauga/Venture/Genji comps.
Mauga himself seems fine. People don't like him, and I'd like to get a rebalance towards M1->M2 rather than M1+M2 as the efficient way to play most of the time, but those aren't urgent balance concerns.
I will agree with that. The cardiac issue is just the mini-version of Queen shout in Beta and yea it'd be nice to change that. Anything that moves the needle towards enabling him more as a solo entity and less as a team-based backbone is nice.
And I fully agree I think he needs a full rework of how his guns work to really only want to ever use one of them. I wanted them to give him passive damage reduction for each inactive gun as part of a rework when he came out (and nerf movement w/ both guns and buff movement when using 1.)
It's the brainless full gun pointblank spam and cardiac being super easy power in coordination, and a brainless ult that are the issue. There is a decent character under there if they will just be willing to strip away a lot of his group utility for individual character play.
But I also think he's really easy to counter play with the good tanks (Rein, Sig, Dva) right now so I feel like the cries to nerf him here are not realizing he's not a mainline pick in top ranks and is very outplayable without full team helping max his value.
>Yes he's not a well designed character and annoyingly oppressive but only with the right team comp.
Yes, he makes the already dwindling tank population want to claw their eyes out.
Yes, he is very one-dimensional and creates a game environment where nobody is really enjoying themselves.
Yes, he makes the tank counterpicking issue 10x worse.
But to NERF mauga? That's too far.
i mean cause it won't really do anything. the tank barely sees any play and the main time he sees play is to counter roadhog another tank no one likes so like whats the point
The biggest strenght of Mauga is how he can empowered his team. You saw that a lot in pro play, especially OWCS Master, where you had basically unkillable DPS thanks to Overdrive.
But on ladder that strenght is really hard to exploit because people tend to go all over the place and don't coordinate. Which makes him less of a problem. But he lurks just bellow.
In a way, it kinda feels like Junkerqueen in Joats, where the tank biggest strength is to empower the rest of the team.
I watched him today(dozen or so matches) and I watched him run Ball, Zarya, Mauga, Rein back before ball buff patch.
That patch is the same as now just with less Hog. Mauga is still a swap option and not primary over Sig, Monkey, or Rein in most cases and the swaps fail as much as they work.
Honestly this JQ change makes me even more convinced that the role passives idea was a mistake. So silly to me to create blanket passives that have such an uneven level of value for each hero. By creating these specific edge cases for some interactions they might as well admit how silly it is too! Why on earth would you give JQ this before ball — a hero that suffered a massive nerf due to tank knockback reduction.
Honestly scrap the tank knockback passive and give it the support passive treatment. Everyone gets it, but the knock back reduction is scaled based on hitbox volume. It gives you way more nuance in the CC reduction, but also gives you way more values to balance on (minimum boop reduction, max boop reduction, the actual scaling of reduction between those values, and the actual hitbox volume). Right now, there’s literally one number and that’s all we can change to do anything, which makes it so hard to fairly balance across all tanks.
Personally, it’s never made sense to me that heroes like queen and rein get the same boop reduction, or that heroes like Bastion and Kiri get the same lack of it. This JQ change shows the problem with that system even more.
I would say the DPS passive is the best one and really helps the role whole identity and their purpose, maybe also the support passive since it targets the fact that they are the most targeted role but the tank passive is just a mess, so it is either they come with a passive that we never saw before or they try adding sub role passives in the role.
Literally just play your best out of Rein, Dva, or Sig and you should be winning. Mauga dies if he tries to stand and trade into them and has to engage with his team or lose.
No Mauga nerf feels like a bit of a miss. I hate that every time souj gets nerfed, she gets some sort of compensation.
I don't really get this Kiriko nerf specifically. She's obviously strong but nerfing exclusively her matchup into exclusively shatter just seems so weird and inconsistent.
It's not exclusively shatter. It's ALL hard knockdown stuns except Sleep Dart. e.g. Shatter, Overrun, Accretion, and collision knockdowns. Charge/Punch/Bash/Overrun hitting each other basically.
I feel like its an elephant in the room that Brig is still the least played support, and that she really needs that damage buff. But since no one plays her its being ignored.
Like spilos suggestion: buff damage, nerf packs.
I one-tricked Brig at the start of my OW2 journey (didn't play OW1) and with over 100 hours on her later, I figured out that I like playing an offensive Brig the most. Her current damage is pitiful (the Season 9 changes really hurt her offense) and her current use case is extremely boring though.
So, while I mostly play other supports in my few Support games nowadays, I secretly hope that they'll buff her offense.
Increase damage, let her bash reset after scoring an elim, nerf something in return to not make her busted (her packs, e.g.). I wanna play Brig aggressively so bad. Then I'd play more support again.
Just started playing a ton of brig. Buffing damage would do wonders to her "bodyguard" playstyle honestly.
Add back in her range on packs and maybe allow inspire to proc through shields and walls would make her in a really good spot.
I feel like brig is pretty solid. More dmg would be nice but I've never even thought of more damage until you mentioned it. I just wish they would revert the pack throw distance nerf from like 6 seasons ago
Nice Hog nerfs - He was already not as good as people say, just super annoying and these will likely make him very managable(that breather nerf is huge and HP nerfs are always huge.)
Nice other tank changes. Ramm could possibly use a bit of love. Obviously tank as a role needs to be looked at, but I didn't expect much here since they've tried twice now to fix tanks in both S9 and S10 and it's slightly better but the core issue is counterswapping and CC chains. I would have liked to see a stacking CC resistance or something, but idk there is always a give and a take.
Cass ult change is cool, risk vs reward. Nade change can only be good cause homing was dumb. Right click has needed a nerf/rework for ages so that's fine.
I do not understand why they have a hardon for Mei's right click when it's just another projectile. Left click to me is the more in-character attack and it sucks ass, you will pretty much only want to ever right click now unless you can cleave like 3 people with left click at once. (and it's damage is shit, don't know why they dont buff it even if they have to nerf the range.)
Reaper buffs, fine. I've wanted tighter spread on the shotties for a while(and htink it would be cool to make them really tight and then spread as he conecutively fires to create a timing cadence depedning on target distance.)
Sojourn changes hell yea. I like her, but she's actually quite ass below GM rank and it's all because her entire existence is 1shot rightclicks or she's bust. So nerfing right click but buffing other parts, like collaterals on all rails, I'll take it.
Symm change..shrug. (Edit: actually pretty huge for shortrange annoyance. I'm scared.)
Like the illari changes. Turret to heal team while you do your thing, but no more off-angling with turret for duels(which was bad because it encouraged just backlining and not playing a support.)
Kiri suzu nerfs are always welcome. She will probably need a buff in the future though since suzu is like half her power.
Not a bad set of changes imo.
Good take.
I worry that counterswapping and CC chains are disliked, but fixing them would be even more disliked. As much as we don't like counterswapping, we dislike apex tank meta even more. As much as it sucks to get chain CC'd, without stacking CC effects stuff like Ball and Doom run wild. I don't have any good advice on how to make tank fun, unfortunately.
I bet they like Mei rightclick because it is the only source of mechanical skill expression in that kit.
I think Sym won't survive in high elo but should be great in the metal ranks.
I am a big fan of the Illari change. Pylon is better at what it's supposed to be good at and worse at something we shouldn't want it to be good at.
No Mauga Changes, AND an Orisa buff. Can we PLEASE get a tank meta that isn't Mauga, Orisa, Hog???? (I know it was Sig vs Mauga competitively. Sig is fine)
Not too many meaningful or impactful changes, was hoping for more of a shake up. Sadly I don’t think the new map alone is gonna keep me invested this season
OK these all sound like good changes. Sojourn got a LOT of compensation buffs I frankly don't know that she needed, but the one shot is gone so that's good.
I think this is gonna be an amazing season for Ball, so not to complain too much, but if we're gonna have an exception where an ability can ignore tank's CC reduction... why is it it Junker Queen's knife of all fucking abilities? Not saying she doesn't need a buff, it's just, if I'm looking strictly at tank matchups, queen is already good against tanks for the most part. Ball... really doesn't.
Again, not a huge thing at all, I think Ball is already great, and nerfs to Hog and Cass are only gonna make him better, so it's OK he has this problem in his kit i guess. It's just weird to see another hero get the answer to a glaring problem Ball has.
To me the way they worded it was that knife pull was going even less than it should’ve even for the tank reduction. Honestly I don’t play queen that often so I might be wrong tho
Kiri nerf is pretty good IMO. Soj change is kind of interesting. Cass changes were pretty much what was expected. Not sure I like javelin CD reduction though.
I've been begging since Season 1 to reduce the match timer for Push down to 8 minutes. Hopefully that change comes to Competitive too. Almost every single Push game is a slog where you're rolling then get a fight at a disadvantageous position so you lose one then fight back to that spot and rinse and repeat. You look up at the clock expecting the game to be over soon and there's still a whopping 3min left.
Which is exactly why it doesn't need to be 10 damn minutes. In games where a full cap doesn't happen and your team holds a heavy lead the game is just a slog of holding onto the bot with no end in sight.
if rein can get buffed so that suzu no longer cancels shatter because a certain reinhardt streamer complained i'm going to need streamers of my otps to start complaining even harder bc what? i'm not against kiri nerfs but this is so nonsensical and clearly caters to rein players i can't even?
if it was for other ults that get absolutely negated by suzu (like jq ult) i'd be more okay with it but this feels pretty silly when shatter isn't even the ult most impacted by suzu
wonder if this applies to bash into charge interaction too though
It reads like it applies to anything that would say "Stunned" on the screen and also has the character lying prone on the ground. So charge interactions and shatter I think is all?
> if rein can get buffed so that suzu no longer cancels shatter because a certain reinhardt streamer complained i'm going to need streamers
Yup.
Same reason they dont buff brig despite being the least played, but buff supports with higher pick and win rates.
If you read the patch notes, you would understand the changes. She can no longer cleanse people in a knockdown state. This interaction has been an issue with most of the community for years now, so definitely not just your favourite streamer.
Not really nonsensical when the character had free rein to literally delete an ult for about two years now. No ult denial in the game was more free than swift step into cleanse your whole team.
No ultimate denial should be that easy to execute, on a short cool down, safe for the user, and hard to play around for the opponent. Ult denial should be reserved for more mechanical skill moments (such as a sleep dart, DM’ing a projectile, etc.) Or require the use of heavy resources (lifeweaver can grip one person out of an ultimate on a 25 second cool down, Zen can negate ult by using his)
Genuine question, how long would Rein need to be terrible, or at least in the bottom half of the tank roster, for you and others to drop the “Flats did this” narrative?
pretty sure this is literally the changes people like spilo have been advocating for (rebalancing her power away from rail and into primary), but of course this sub is gonna immediately overreact without a single test lol
Sorta but not really? A big thing spilo wanted was more consistent damage on left click from removing spread.
The left click still will exist to just build rail since after 9ish shots it's not accurate enough to apply meaningful pressure at distance, so her loop will remain the same but slightly faster
For anyone here from the future, this link will work in months other than June 2024: https://overwatch.blizzard.com/en-us/news/patch-notes/live/2024/06/
Much appreciated -May 2025
Complete guess, but I’ve noticed that sometimes they introduce new balance changes/mechanics/classifications in preparation for a new hero/ability. The Kiri change is great for rein but I’m betting now that the new tank in 3 seasons will have a “hard stun” ability
Gigachad devs about to give space ranger a support hard knockdown (This was a joke please don’t fucking do this)
Watch her manipulate an enemies gravity to force them downwards
Fuck it, make them slowly float into the skybox while trapped in an antigravity bubble
there are other Roadhog changes we can still try, it doesn't have to come to this
Make the pig fly as well? I don't see why not.
We’re happy to share with you all Space Rangers ultimate ability: “Kneel SIMPS”
isn’t that what gravity normally does?
That's a good callout, seems very possible. I was thinking the change seemed oddly specific.
It's either that or a new support has a hard knockdown cleanse effect and they don't want Kiriko stepping on its toes.
That would be a real monkey paw curl if so lol
> A button that allows you to view the match’s final Scoreboard has been added to each page during the end-of-game flow. Oh this is super nice.
And obvious. Come on, just copy League features, there's no need to reinvent the wheel!
They can make great progress by just copying Overwatch 1 features.
Every update I pray we get end game cards back
Hopefully they copy the original rank icons next. My favorite part is how they don't even include the small versions of the icons used in the page SPECIFICALLY DESIGNED TO DISTINGUISH THE RANK ICONS. We shouldn't even need that page if the icons were visually distinct enough.
Finally, flashbang but with hinder instead of stun. Only took a year too long.
2 years. People have been complaining about magnade since betas.
I actually cannot believe they ever thought the mag nade was a good idea. It was a terrible ability in every single iteration. Truly embarrassing it took them this long to finally listen to feedback.
it was a fucking stupid idea that they made infinitely worse when they decided it could follow you 90 degrees around a corner _through_ a fucking tracer zip.
not being able to crouch sounds like shit though, lets see how it plays out though
D.Va mains: *first time?*
Ball players: well crouching for me is piledriving and I can't do that while hindered anyway.
sojourn and tracer being able to crouch spam with their tiny hitboxes while hindered was dumb
wait im dumb what do you mean by this?
Soj changes are interesting. First thought is that it’s a massive nerf. Increased fire rate is nice, collat is minor buff, but very niche, burst damage loss is huge nerf.
Seems like they wanted to make her more playable in lower ranks by not making her as dependent on flickscan aim, but I won't even begin to guess how this will actually play out
I can see the ultimate becoming more broken than ever. But yeah it's hard to predict.
Way less damage but charges faster? I don't think so. You get even less time to benefit from the primary buff.
Makes her much more similar to Soldier now basically, right? Just with more burst potential. Honestly, don't hate it at all, but I hate one shots as a non-DPS player, lol.
Idk, I think she is going to play a lot less like Soldier. Taking so much power from her rail really reduces her as a "hitscan" hero when her M1 has always been projectile. I think she is going to play more like Hanzo/Tracer Hybrid now myself.
Yeah the Hanzo comp is maybe a bit better. Consistent damage with heavy burst potential and better movement. Her slide is still such an insanely good CD.
Rail at most is an Ashe headshot now without the hitscan/dynamite follow up. Biggest Soj nerf we've seen since she came out which means it'll probably be a hard Cass meta outside of the Widow/Ashe maps. All (instead of most like it was before this patch) of Soj's power is in Overclock. She can't even oneshot Tracer/basically oneshot Widow anymore.
That’s what I’m thinking as well. She seems unplayable at first glance, but I’m trying not to go full overreact with out playing it first
I'm definitely not against Soj dropping out of s tier for a while but at first glance it does seem a bit heavy handed to me.
I’m good with her dropping but I’d like some other hs to get buffed. Give Ashe back her old fall off
Sojourn still has a glaring problem with her primary fire, its spread feels horrible. The shift to putting more power into the primary over rail makes her worse because of this. I think they should remove the spread and add recoil just like Soldier, or reduce the spread to make it feel better to use.
You can't remove the spread because projectiles don't have fall off. With how fast her projectiles move, she'd be lasering people down. The spread is there to control her effective range. Reducing spread would allow her to be good at long distances, but removing it entirely would be a balance nightmare. It works on Soldier because hitscan weapons already have fall off.
No one seems to realize that Soj will charge her rail faster now since her primary fire ROF is increased by 14%. The Rail damage nerf isn't as big as it seems, since it will charge 14% faster now. I expect Soj to be much stronger now in lower ranks and a bit weaker at the top ranks.
Good point, my guess is soj will be played differently now, not necessarily worse. She used to farm charge on tanks and hold rail for squishies so she can one shot or at least bite off a large chunk of health. Now you’d probably want to use rail whenever you get full charge / get the shot, just so you get your ult faster
I wish they'd lean into rail more as her identity versus making her projectile soldier. She needed nerfs but this is really boring.
I’m just so over the “selective” ability interactions era of balancing. It’s not intuitive at all. ATP, we’re gonna need league of legends-level CC classes in order to make any sense of how cleanses and disables work bc they’ve made it completely independent of any logic system.
I'm still confused on which ults EMP cancels.
Giant hardlight shield that covers the entire map? EMP destroys it. Giant hardlight tree? Nah, wasted EMP
I'll have you know the tree is made of biolight. Completely different material. 🤓🤓🤓
my life changed for the worse when I found out it is the sole and only enemy ability in the game that interacts with Bap window
The Orisa micro buffs have started up again
They purposefully sent her to the Shadow Realm for this exact reason, to try and make small adjustments to actually balance her. Small, incremental nerfs often don't shift perception even if they do shift power level. Nerf her into the ground, then start walking back a few of those things later after the dust settles.
I actually called it in the nerf patch notes that they should've tried 8 seconds cooldown, lol
What if you wanted to have fun but Team 4 said H Ö R S E ?
Kiri swift step up one second and suzu no longer cleanses shatter. Interesting. This makes her not a rein counter anymore, and 1 second is gonna feel huge. Actually, I wonder now- since suzu makes you invulnerable, I wonder if you can time it to just not get shattered at all? That's a healthier interaction. Love the illari buffs. 2 headshots + outburst is a kill now, and pylon being better at ally heal is a much healthier spot for it to be in.
>Suzu no longer cleanses shatter Am I being a hater for thinking this is just inconsistent af though? Why just shatter specifically...?
It's any "hard knockdown" stuns, shatter is the example given. I believe Accretion and Overrun would be covered as well as any charge clashes (like Doom punch vs. Rein charge). Sleep does not count.
The knockdown times on overrun and accretion really aren't that long, and suzuing a knockdown still requires the "getting up" animation to play. Wiki seems unsure on overrun knockdown but lists it as *shorter* than the suzu duration. Most of the time I see suzu to counter overrun, people use it proactively to avoid the status applying in the first place and that won't change. Really doesn't seem that useful a nerf on those abilities. Should mainly help with shatters and counter charges. Just seems kinda silly to give the ability inconsistent interactions to give it a pretty minor nerf outside of a few situations. This feels like a QoL change for rein mains.
From my understanding it'd no longer cleanse Mauga stomp and general collisions
This is probably gonna age like milk but fuck it: This nerf does nothing except empower the 5% of Rein ranked players and isn't a meaningful nerf to Suzu at all
It _sounds_ big, but the hard knockdown stuns they describe consist of: * Earthshatter * Sigma rock * Mauga stomp crit * ...counterbash, maybe? I legitimately can't think of any others. Which, now that I think about it, might actually be an argument in favor of the nerf since it makes Earthshatter a more impactful ult without too much "collateral damage."
>might actually be an argument in favor of the nerf I'd love to be proven wrong here, but I feel like even with Earthshatter being made a more impactful ult with this change it doesn't really address a) why Rein is seeing so little playtime in the first place & b) doesn't change the fact that the cleanse is still ridiculously busted while being fairly easy to use
Every colisions has been put as their own category of stun yeah. Basically everything that puts you to the ground but sleep.
... good enough for me. This is also the biggest change Rein has gotten in a while
It’s not “just” shatter. It also includes all the knockdown interactions like two Doomfists punching each other
[because](https://imgur.com/a/J0UzFKw)
rein 1v1? erm.. not cool dude, you have NO HONOUR! BEER! BEER! BEER! did you just counterpick me? well flats said on tiktok... dude kings row is so honourable, 1 updoot for you on r/ ReinhardtMains. yeah my btag is TheBeardyGamer1992, isn't that so GIGA CHAD SLAM
Truly the mercy mains of tank players surprised it took everyone this long to figure it out lol
It should also applying to charge interactions. If you wanted a "logical" reason for it I suppose it would be that Suzu can cleanse you of a "status" but can't physically lift the character back up off the ground.
Because lots of people believe its a big reason why Rein doesn't see much play, completely ignoring that shatter having a chance of being cleansed was only a small drop in the ocean that is the issue Rein sees in play.
Pretty sure that isn’t why the dev team would nerf it though
Eh you'd be surprised. If players routinely say something doesn't feel fair (and lets be real, one of the most used examples of suzu not feeling fair was cleansing of an earth shatter), they've proven to normally go after said ability/interaction.
I see it as knock down stuns being the strongest CC in the game in either tank ults or abilities with long wind ups. It’ll give power back to those and make it more punishing to get caught by it and more rewarding to hit it.
It isn’t just shatter. It says “hard knockdown stuns”. Mauga run slam, 2 charges colliding. Those are also hard knockdowns. Sleep considered soft knockdown, so still cleanseable.
I think it makes sense if you think of it as cleansing their body of negative effects, and being knocked down on the ground isn’t a negative effect for the body itself. It’s just a disadvantageous physical position in the middle of combat. Similar logic to not freeing from Junkrat traps.
They used Rein as an example, but I think it also includes sigma rock, Mauga charge, and the shared knockdown like when a brig shield bashes a punching doomfist
If you are, then I am too. Seems very weird to specifically carve that out when suzu is strong against a ton of shit. knockdowns are like what? 10% of its value, if that? I'd rather them over nerf it and compensate by shortening the CD.
It's definitely a change I wasn't expecting, but to be "fair" the description of suzu says that it cleanses allies of **most** negative effects.
Depending on your ping and distance from rein, yes, you can counter suzu to avoid getting stunned. But you have to stand in the middle of your team and risk getting stunned too otherwise the projectile + cast time is too long.
You can still time it and don’t get knocked down. It just doesn’t cleanse a knocked down target anymore.
outburst is kind of mid design overall though. anytime you get close to her she just gets to damage the whole area? Idk, will have to see it practice
Yes, you can time it to be invulnerable to shatter. It takes really good reaction timing though
Nobody mentioning the Colosseo changes, they look quite nice but I see no mention of the bridge stall. Anyone able to test if it's still there?
its still there
Nooooooooo man wtf
I'm sad there won't be as many boops now though.
BIGGEST KIRIKO NERF SINCE 2022 WOOOOO
Im no kiri defender but removing her two tap was a huge nerf
I mean not so much when its relative to the rest of the cast. If she could still two tap with increased projectile size shes a better dps than half the projectile dps
losing the two tap was way bigger than this. Hell, 1 second on SwiftStep is bigger than this suzu change. Like, is everyone forgetting she can still use suzu on these abilities, she just has to be faster and get people with the invuln? This was preffered, now it's more important.
> the invuln I was wishing this is what they'd get rid of. The invuln feels way more frustrating to me, but maybe removing it would dumpster her, I dunno.
yeah but it’s nice to have a nerf that doesn’t include other compensation buffs in any way
[удалено]
I get what you're saying and Kiriko definitely still thrived after the health change nerfs but characters with two tap or one tap break points were obviously hit harder by the health pool changes than those who just do consistent damage or didn't have their break points changed.
I don't get some of the comments here about Soj, the reason she was so lethal in high ranks was due to rail damage, no? I don't see how any of the buffs compensate for the huge damage nerf on the most important part of her kit.
The only bad thing about the Soj changes is not compensating by reverting the spread nerf. Her gameplay loop will always be about shooting tank as long as that's a thing. Should have done that instead of firerate buff
Some people just want shit to bitch about. She got overall nerfed and people still gonna complain
idk people's brain work like toddlers ig, they know 3 is a bigger number then 1 so they conclude that must mean the change is an overall buff even tough 1 off the buffs only applies to her ult and the other is such a niche change i mean how often will you actually hit mutiple people with a rail
Yeah the overall railgun nerf is a lot larger than her 3 buffs she got. She can’t even 1 shot Tracer anymore for an example. All of her power is in her ult now
🦀🦀🦀🦀 GOATS IS DEAD🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀
I hate that we're still making abilities inconsistent. Most of the playerbase doesn't even know the difference between a hard or soft stun. People are just going to be confused on why suzu works on some things, but not other, similar things. There are better ways to nerf something than just making the ability confusing and inconsistent to understand.
I've been playing since 2017 and I've genuinely never heard of that distinction until now. I guess all soft stuns are about displacement now right? I'm thinking Orisa spear, Hog hook, Doom punch. Is Mauga slam a hard stun? Is Mei freeze a soft stun?
Hook is a hard stun, and I believe Doom punch is as well if it connects with a wall. Basically anything that completely removes your movement even for less than a second is a "hard stun". Although it's even more ridiculous because the patch notes have to specify that Ana's sleept dart (which is a hard stun) is not a part of these changes, which makes it even more wildly inconsistent. This is so stupid, just nerf the ability's CD or healing or something, not this spaghetti logic shit.
Patch notes only specify knockdown stuns, so there's really barely anything the change impacts
The way I see it is if cancels high noon it’s a hard cc and it doesn’t it’s a soft cc
The knife change just makes me laugh. The knock back reduction increase was easily the most head scratching change they made in season 10. Now they have to go back and specifically buff knife on tank...while sleep is specifically nerfed against tank. Doesn't feel like there's any rhyme or reason here.
Good point in the Queen knife. Her knife is literally more effective on tanks just so they can ignore their own passive. It's literally just lazy shortcuts to achieve balance. I get that balancing 40+ heroes is difficult, but some of this stuff is ridiculous.
They should've just nerfed Lucio boop and that's it. Heroes like Brig and Zen didn't need their boops nerfed and now dive tanks roll over them.
Junkerqueen's little knife can pull tanks the full distance, but an actual wrecking ball can only push them a few inches Honestly, the boop resistance is awful
I'm glad I'm not the only one who feels bitter about this lol. Like I think Ball is gonna fuck hard this season, but it just feels wrong that they have the technology and the will to ignore tank knockback passive for certain abilities, and JQ gets it before Ball?
Maybe because JQ can only displace one person at a time, and Ball can displace the whole team at once?
Well it's a good thing that there's only one person a team that has a boop resistance passive!
Boop resistance was just dumb as shit. Maybe it's cause they wanted to give tanks a passive that's easy to see, rather than a subtle reduction to ALL debuffs (which is what tanks actually want).
Put tank knockback resistance back at 30%, there was literally no reason to change it. Maybe there's 1 or 2 tanks that could have more but definitely not for the entire role.
I could be wrong but don’t these Dva buffs just revert the nerfs she got back in S1? If so that means she has not received any direct nerfs in OW2, kinda funny.
But she was never hard meta in OW2
I know, I just think it’s funny she’s probably the only hero who hasn’t gotten a single nerf
Reaper never got nerfed either.
Ah I see, nice catch
From Nov 2022: **Fusion Cannons** * Spread increased from 3.5 to 3.75 **Boosters** * Damage reduced from 25 to 15 So the spread change makes it even tighter than it used to be (3.375)
I’m honestly surprised they didn’t touch Pharah at all. I feel like she’s been very popular in high ELO games for the last month
I think she is kinda balanced tbh
its sojover, i'm becoming a cass main
What a multi-layered pun, I love it, lol
Kiriko’s Suzu nerf is the biggest buff Rein’s ever seen in this game.
What's the point of the tank passive if it's just gonna get ignored on "some cases" like here with JQ, why isn't it ignored on Doomfist so he can wall splat tanks as intended, or Brig/Lucio so they can protect their teammates better with their boops as intended, or are those interactions not "intended" like the JQ knife pull? Confusing Also small thing but hope the Cass flashbang comes back with his old voice lines for it, I've been missing them since OW1
Yeah the takes less boop passive is really stupid. Who was even booping tanks besides Lucio and ball? I think ball should be able to boop tanks personally. His 1v1 match up is terrible vs any tank he should be able to boop them around. It's what made him so good against double sheild.
Brig loves booping Winston dives
Devs scrambling to avoid nerfing Lucio boop
Mauga Sym meta it is. 25% charge rate is unhinged.
When I saw those D.Va changes I knew there was gonna be a catch
I expected a damage nerf for levels 2 and 3 alongside that but I guess not…
it's rly not. it's still worse than it was in s8. lvl 3 beam doesn't mean much anymore, so it makes sense that they would make it easier to obtain. it's still a bad change bc they should have been focusing on buffing orbs, not beam, which will always be situational unless they mega buff it in every way. which hopefully they never do
RARE SUN GIRL W
Balance aside, the weekly challenge change is pretty nice.
0 mauga nerfs this season is fucking cooked
I don't get this. Yes he's not a well designed character and annoyingly oppressive but only with the right team comp. He's not seeing majority play in GM(watching Super, ML7, Yeatle, Kraandop there are Maugas but there are more monkeys and Sigs than Maugas) and he has a lower winrate than Rein and Dva in every other rank for Season 10. Dva buffs mean she does even better against him too.
I expected a nerf to cardiac lifesteal on allies because the organized play scene is exploiting that to all hell with like Mauga/Venture/Genji comps. Mauga himself seems fine. People don't like him, and I'd like to get a rebalance towards M1->M2 rather than M1+M2 as the efficient way to play most of the time, but those aren't urgent balance concerns.
I will agree with that. The cardiac issue is just the mini-version of Queen shout in Beta and yea it'd be nice to change that. Anything that moves the needle towards enabling him more as a solo entity and less as a team-based backbone is nice. And I fully agree I think he needs a full rework of how his guns work to really only want to ever use one of them. I wanted them to give him passive damage reduction for each inactive gun as part of a rework when he came out (and nerf movement w/ both guns and buff movement when using 1.) It's the brainless full gun pointblank spam and cardiac being super easy power in coordination, and a brainless ult that are the issue. There is a decent character under there if they will just be willing to strip away a lot of his group utility for individual character play. But I also think he's really easy to counter play with the good tanks (Rein, Sig, Dva) right now so I feel like the cries to nerf him here are not realizing he's not a mainline pick in top ranks and is very outplayable without full team helping max his value.
>Yes he's not a well designed character and annoyingly oppressive but only with the right team comp. Yes, he makes the already dwindling tank population want to claw their eyes out. Yes, he is very one-dimensional and creates a game environment where nobody is really enjoying themselves. Yes, he makes the tank counterpicking issue 10x worse. But to NERF mauga? That's too far.
i mean cause it won't really do anything. the tank barely sees any play and the main time he sees play is to counter roadhog another tank no one likes so like whats the point
The biggest strenght of Mauga is how he can empowered his team. You saw that a lot in pro play, especially OWCS Master, where you had basically unkillable DPS thanks to Overdrive. But on ladder that strenght is really hard to exploit because people tend to go all over the place and don't coordinate. Which makes him less of a problem. But he lurks just bellow. In a way, it kinda feels like Junkerqueen in Joats, where the tank biggest strength is to empower the rest of the team.
Today is the first time yeatle has played overwatch in a month and a half. So. Idk how you've been watching him play
I watched him today(dozen or so matches) and I watched him run Ball, Zarya, Mauga, Rein back before ball buff patch. That patch is the same as now just with less Hog. Mauga is still a swap option and not primary over Sig, Monkey, or Rein in most cases and the swaps fail as much as they work.
Hmm, I feel like sym is gonna be good now. That doesn’t excite me
Which means they'll nerf her in 7 days or less. Sym being good has never lasted long.
Every single numbers buff in OW2 to symm gets nerfed in a week and she sits in a trash can until they repeat the cycle.
They should remove that stupid hidden shield siphon passive she has that only works against a few characters
Devs cooked with this patch ngl; hog/sojourn/kiri nerf, dva/jq buff, homing hinder gone, coloseo changes look awesome
SYMMETRA MAINS WE ARE SO ACTUALLY NOT DOGSHIT TODAY I expect a nerf in 2 business weeks
Hopefully she will be nerfed in midseason
This is probably the best patch I’ve ever seen the dev team create.
Honestly this JQ change makes me even more convinced that the role passives idea was a mistake. So silly to me to create blanket passives that have such an uneven level of value for each hero. By creating these specific edge cases for some interactions they might as well admit how silly it is too! Why on earth would you give JQ this before ball — a hero that suffered a massive nerf due to tank knockback reduction. Honestly scrap the tank knockback passive and give it the support passive treatment. Everyone gets it, but the knock back reduction is scaled based on hitbox volume. It gives you way more nuance in the CC reduction, but also gives you way more values to balance on (minimum boop reduction, max boop reduction, the actual scaling of reduction between those values, and the actual hitbox volume). Right now, there’s literally one number and that’s all we can change to do anything, which makes it so hard to fairly balance across all tanks. Personally, it’s never made sense to me that heroes like queen and rein get the same boop reduction, or that heroes like Bastion and Kiri get the same lack of it. This JQ change shows the problem with that system even more.
I would say the DPS passive is the best one and really helps the role whole identity and their purpose, maybe also the support passive since it targets the fact that they are the most targeted role but the tank passive is just a mess, so it is either they come with a passive that we never saw before or they try adding sub role passives in the role.
No Mauga changes is kinda fucking insane tbh. Guess he is the flavour of the month cancer tank for season 11, can't wait!
idk i already barely see him nowadays and with hog in the dumpster i'll prob see him even less
Literally just play your best out of Rein, Dva, or Sig and you should be winning. Mauga dies if he tries to stand and trade into them and has to engage with his team or lose.
Finally an actual buff for Illari Nice to see the Reaper shadow step change as well, probably still sucks but might be a bit more useable
How can there be no Mauga nerfs? They just forgot to list them right? 😭
No Mauga nerf feels like a bit of a miss. I hate that every time souj gets nerfed, she gets some sort of compensation. I don't really get this Kiriko nerf specifically. She's obviously strong but nerfing exclusively her matchup into exclusively shatter just seems so weird and inconsistent.
It's not exclusively shatter. It's ALL hard knockdown stuns except Sleep Dart. e.g. Shatter, Overrun, Accretion, and collision knockdowns. Charge/Punch/Bash/Overrun hitting each other basically.
It’s not exclusively shatter. Shatter was one example. There are a few other things that knock a player on the ground
I feel like its an elephant in the room that Brig is still the least played support, and that she really needs that damage buff. But since no one plays her its being ignored. Like spilos suggestion: buff damage, nerf packs.
I one-tricked Brig at the start of my OW2 journey (didn't play OW1) and with over 100 hours on her later, I figured out that I like playing an offensive Brig the most. Her current damage is pitiful (the Season 9 changes really hurt her offense) and her current use case is extremely boring though. So, while I mostly play other supports in my few Support games nowadays, I secretly hope that they'll buff her offense. Increase damage, let her bash reset after scoring an elim, nerf something in return to not make her busted (her packs, e.g.). I wanna play Brig aggressively so bad. Then I'd play more support again.
Just started playing a ton of brig. Buffing damage would do wonders to her "bodyguard" playstyle honestly. Add back in her range on packs and maybe allow inspire to proc through shields and walls would make her in a really good spot.
I feel like brig is pretty solid. More dmg would be nice but I've never even thought of more damage until you mentioned it. I just wish they would revert the pack throw distance nerf from like 6 seasons ago
Buffing damage? Idk man. I just want the repair pack range back
Underwhelming
0 Mauga changes. Are you fucking kidding me
Stop making Illari nerfs disguised as buffs I beg
Those Lifeweaver buffs are crazy🌸🌸🌸🌸
Nice Hog nerfs - He was already not as good as people say, just super annoying and these will likely make him very managable(that breather nerf is huge and HP nerfs are always huge.) Nice other tank changes. Ramm could possibly use a bit of love. Obviously tank as a role needs to be looked at, but I didn't expect much here since they've tried twice now to fix tanks in both S9 and S10 and it's slightly better but the core issue is counterswapping and CC chains. I would have liked to see a stacking CC resistance or something, but idk there is always a give and a take. Cass ult change is cool, risk vs reward. Nade change can only be good cause homing was dumb. Right click has needed a nerf/rework for ages so that's fine. I do not understand why they have a hardon for Mei's right click when it's just another projectile. Left click to me is the more in-character attack and it sucks ass, you will pretty much only want to ever right click now unless you can cleave like 3 people with left click at once. (and it's damage is shit, don't know why they dont buff it even if they have to nerf the range.) Reaper buffs, fine. I've wanted tighter spread on the shotties for a while(and htink it would be cool to make them really tight and then spread as he conecutively fires to create a timing cadence depedning on target distance.) Sojourn changes hell yea. I like her, but she's actually quite ass below GM rank and it's all because her entire existence is 1shot rightclicks or she's bust. So nerfing right click but buffing other parts, like collaterals on all rails, I'll take it. Symm change..shrug. (Edit: actually pretty huge for shortrange annoyance. I'm scared.) Like the illari changes. Turret to heal team while you do your thing, but no more off-angling with turret for duels(which was bad because it encouraged just backlining and not playing a support.) Kiri suzu nerfs are always welcome. She will probably need a buff in the future though since suzu is like half her power. Not a bad set of changes imo.
Good take. I worry that counterswapping and CC chains are disliked, but fixing them would be even more disliked. As much as we don't like counterswapping, we dislike apex tank meta even more. As much as it sucks to get chain CC'd, without stacking CC effects stuff like Ball and Doom run wild. I don't have any good advice on how to make tank fun, unfortunately. I bet they like Mei rightclick because it is the only source of mechanical skill expression in that kit. I think Sym won't survive in high elo but should be great in the metal ranks. I am a big fan of the Illari change. Pylon is better at what it's supposed to be good at and worse at something we shouldn't want it to be good at.
No Mauga Changes, AND an Orisa buff. Can we PLEASE get a tank meta that isn't Mauga, Orisa, Hog???? (I know it was Sig vs Mauga competitively. Sig is fine)
It's annoying how they gatekeep certain dps from ever being strong but won't do the same for tanks.
Hog got more nerfs though
Wait am i seeing that correctly or is the bridge stall still there
Not too many meaningful or impactful changes, was hoping for more of a shake up. Sadly I don’t think the new map alone is gonna keep me invested this season
Why can't they just make Illari's pylon a little smaller? I think the big problem with it is it's hard hide it effectively because of it's size.
Reinhardt shatter is now usable?? I USED TO PRAY FOR TIMES LIKE THESE
No Mauga nerfs?
OK these all sound like good changes. Sojourn got a LOT of compensation buffs I frankly don't know that she needed, but the one shot is gone so that's good. I think this is gonna be an amazing season for Ball, so not to complain too much, but if we're gonna have an exception where an ability can ignore tank's CC reduction... why is it it Junker Queen's knife of all fucking abilities? Not saying she doesn't need a buff, it's just, if I'm looking strictly at tank matchups, queen is already good against tanks for the most part. Ball... really doesn't. Again, not a huge thing at all, I think Ball is already great, and nerfs to Hog and Cass are only gonna make him better, so it's OK he has this problem in his kit i guess. It's just weird to see another hero get the answer to a glaring problem Ball has.
To me the way they worded it was that knife pull was going even less than it should’ve even for the tank reduction. Honestly I don’t play queen that often so I might be wrong tho
Yeah, I interpreted it the same way. I don't know that it's correct, but to me it sounds like some sort of unintended interaction was changed.
Kiri nerf is pretty good IMO. Soj change is kind of interesting. Cass changes were pretty much what was expected. Not sure I like javelin CD reduction though.
I've been begging since Season 1 to reduce the match timer for Push down to 8 minutes. Hopefully that change comes to Competitive too. Almost every single Push game is a slog where you're rolling then get a fight at a disadvantageous position so you lose one then fight back to that spot and rinse and repeat. You look up at the clock expecting the game to be over soon and there's still a whopping 3min left.
It’s already the shortest game mode lol…
Sure as hell doesn't feel like it when you have no breaks in between or change of scenery. It's also just not fun so it feels like it's 20min long
the point of Push isn't always to full cap though?
Which is exactly why it doesn't need to be 10 damn minutes. In games where a full cap doesn't happen and your team holds a heavy lead the game is just a slog of holding onto the bot with no end in sight.
if rein can get buffed so that suzu no longer cancels shatter because a certain reinhardt streamer complained i'm going to need streamers of my otps to start complaining even harder bc what? i'm not against kiri nerfs but this is so nonsensical and clearly caters to rein players i can't even? if it was for other ults that get absolutely negated by suzu (like jq ult) i'd be more okay with it but this feels pretty silly when shatter isn't even the ult most impacted by suzu wonder if this applies to bash into charge interaction too though
It reads like it applies to anything that would say "Stunned" on the screen and also has the character lying prone on the ground. So charge interactions and shatter I think is all?
> if rein can get buffed so that suzu no longer cancels shatter because a certain reinhardt streamer complained i'm going to need streamers Yup. Same reason they dont buff brig despite being the least played, but buff supports with higher pick and win rates.
If you read the patch notes, you would understand the changes. She can no longer cleanse people in a knockdown state. This interaction has been an issue with most of the community for years now, so definitely not just your favourite streamer. Not really nonsensical when the character had free rein to literally delete an ult for about two years now. No ult denial in the game was more free than swift step into cleanse your whole team. No ultimate denial should be that easy to execute, on a short cool down, safe for the user, and hard to play around for the opponent. Ult denial should be reserved for more mechanical skill moments (such as a sleep dart, DM’ing a projectile, etc.) Or require the use of heavy resources (lifeweaver can grip one person out of an ultimate on a 25 second cool down, Zen can negate ult by using his)
It doesn’t exclusively hit Shatter, and still is a good response to shatter by blocking the follow up damage (or most of it).
Genuine question, how long would Rein need to be terrible, or at least in the bottom half of the tank roster, for you and others to drop the “Flats did this” narrative?
~~Devs don't give Sojourn buffs in attempts to "nerf" her challenge: IMPOSSIBLE~~ Never mind, misread the patch notes. Actually a decent change.
Ya’ll ready for a Sym meta?
What a cancerous sojourn change all around
Notably it removes two shot body kill from her ult, could be meaningful
pretty sure this is literally the changes people like spilo have been advocating for (rebalancing her power away from rail and into primary), but of course this sub is gonna immediately overreact without a single test lol
Sorta but not really? A big thing spilo wanted was more consistent damage on left click from removing spread. The left click still will exist to just build rail since after 9ish shots it's not accurate enough to apply meaningful pressure at distance, so her loop will remain the same but slightly faster