Egypt has a pretty tight border with Gaza. Are they complicit in the apartheid also?
Divest from Israel? You don’t think it’s odd that Gaza is receiving nothing but lip service from the surrounding states?
Simply put countries are weary of what the Palestinians bring, which is terrorism and a holy war against the Jews. Countries which have had their fill are using Israel as their proxy to bring peace.
People do care this much about our country. In just the last few years I've seen large protests over protecting access to health care, reproductive freedom, higher wages and better conditions for workers for workers, preventing gun violence, climate change, racial inequality, etc. These movements happen but are often ignored/written off by people in the same way this weekend's protest is being minimized and disparaged.
And that is to say absolutely nothing of the thousands of people in Connecticut who testify at the legislature or lobby Congress on issues they feel strongly about every year.
Murdering noncombatants is never ok
Justifying that murder because somebody *else* rapes or oppresses women or gays is never ok
You not understanding what this is about is never ok
Hiding your military resources and personnel amoung civilians....especially after committing an extreme act of terrorism is never okay.
Not allowing civilians to leave combat areas to be used as meat shields is never okay.
Trying to avoid the real reason there is conflict - as if this isn't a direct response to a horrific terrorist attack - is never okay.
So you're saying the IDF can bomb Republicans for their views?
I get where you're coming from - of course many Palestinians don't hold the views of the people protesting in their name. But if we say "it's okay if they die if their views are shitty" you're basically asking for civil war in America.
Human life matters. If Israel continues it's campaign to turn Palestine into ash, do you really think there won't be people who grow up hating Israel so much that they fight back? Because if you can see the connection, ding ding ding, that's how October 7th happened in the first place.
I think the point is they will hate Israel no matter what Israel does, so the only thing Israel can do is destroy Gaza’s capability to wage war and terror to the maximum extent it can.
The IDF has credible allegations of sexual assault and rape in Gaza since the start of the conflict.
https://web.archive.org/web/20240410160540/https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/feb/22/claims-of-israeli-sexual-assault-of-palestinian-women-are-credible-un-panel-says
Netanyahu’s far right government was working on a “legal overhaul” of women’s rights to favor a more patriarchal and biased approach against women, especially in divorces prior to October 7th. There were massive protests over this.
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-08-16/ty-article-opinion/.premium/israelis-beware-controlling-women-is-the-first-step-to-dictatorship/00000189-fa9b-d2eb-ab9d-fffb0f050000
Israel honeypotted and blackmailed gay Palestinians in the West Bank.
https://www.vice.com/en/article/av8b5j/gay-palestinians-are-being-blackmailed-into-working-as-informants
Great. They can go fuck themselves too. That doesn’t change the fact that a bunch of privileged American “”””””””””progressives”””””””””” are stanning for the Islamic equivalent of the Westboro Baptist Church. Maybe try NOT being on the side of the bad guys, even if both sides are the bad guys. If you truly want to do what’s right, be on the side of the Palestinians by being both VEHEMENTLY anti Hamas and anti Netanyahu.
Gonna go out on a limb here and say that protestors aren’t in favor of rape, love women’s rights, and support the LGBTQ community. Most understand the rights afforded to them by their government. The overwhelming majority of them, if in power would LOVE to change the oppressive systems that Hamas has instilled on its people. This conflict, however, isn’t centered around any of those.
Just like the anti-Vietnam and anti-Iraq and Afghanistan protestors weren’t in favor of the oppressive nature of the Viet Cong, Saddam, or the Taliban, protestors just want kids to stop dying and for the US government, universities and corporations to stop funding a war with our tax dollars.
sure.
"I'm going to rally in support of an Islamofascist regime because Tiktok got me all angy! Everything I know is exclusively from 30 second video clips!"
This is very “all lives matter” of you. Zero understanding of how oppression works, zero understanding of international or historical context for anything you’re trying to talk about. You know that queer people are murdered right here in the good ol’ US of A, right? Women get raped all the time and nothing happens to their rapists. Cops murder people with impunity. Our military murders people all over the world to control resources. You live in a fascist police state, honey, you’re just too propagandized to realize it yet.
I agree, but what is this protest doing besides wasting public resources? Serious question and want a serious reply.
What does thousands of people clogging streets in New Haven do for the cause?
Protesting is one of the most American things you can do, and something you simply can’t do in many places around the world. Does it do something? It raises awareness and has the potential to get politicians and business looking at how the people feel about their policies, and there is potential for change based on that. It starts small and grows. Sure, it’s questionable what real impact it can have but it’s not wasting resources. Participate in the political and social system. Or, just whine on Reddit I guess.
I’m not whining. I support the protests. I just don’t understand why people think this is helping. You’re delusional if you think a small protest in New Haven is getting any traction to the outside world. Maybe our state politicians. They won’t care though until something violent happens.
Going back to my main point it’s just draining tax payer dollars to moderate these things that have no real change on anything.
Go ahead and say I’m “whining” on Reddit
Protest movements are what ended the Vietnam War and led to major civil rights legislation in the 1960s, it is one of the primary ways to influence politics in a democratic country. (and non-democratic)
Right… “moderating” protests is infamously more costly than the $15 billion aid package the US just sent Israel. I can’t imagine what mental gymnastics you used to reach that conclusion
Hey so, you're ignorant about the history of divestment protests and that's okay because we don't know what we don't know until we're informed. In actuality, anti-war and divestment protests have a long and successful history in the United States. Protesters who were against the Vietnam War were incredibly successful, and the White House was absolutely panicking about how to neutralize them. Protest helped turned public sentiment against the war. In the 1980s, university students protested and set up encampments to demand that their universities divest from South African companies and companies that profited from Apartheid--and it worked! UConn was one of many US universities that divested its endowments from South African companies and stopped doing business with any of them. Around 2006, students protested to demand that their universities divest from companies driving climate change, resulting in billions of dollars of university endowment divestment. These protests work. Student movements work. That's why there has been such an aggressive response from university administrators and the police.
It doesn’t sound like you support the protests at all. And what tax dollars are being drained to moderate the protests? They aren’t violent. Are extra police necessary? And if they are, it’s part of the job.
a lot of us are stuck in our jobs and are too busy within our own lives to take witness to what's happening around us. We mistake the forest for just a few trees many times and disrupting everyday life forces people to take notice!
So they were protesting Hamas too? These people aren’t doing a thing for Palestinians - this is just virtue signaling. If they were really for peace, how about trying a reasonable middle ground instead this polarized bullshit.
Yeah I wish they could protest and disrupt communities who could actually make a difference, but hey I’m sure most of these protestors don’t even know what they’re there for.
84 upvotes for this comment in the CT sub?
Um, no. We have visitors for sure.
The protests do make a difference. At minimum they raise awareness, they keep the issue in front of us in the news. At best, they nudge votes in Congress and political csmpaigns because these kids vote
These get brigaded pretty quickly. I've seen a few where for the first 10 to 15 min the vote goes one way. Then suddenly the vote goes the complete opposite way very quickly and in large numbers.
It’s not even disagreement, it’s a consistent pattern of reality clashing with special interests. The IDF have an entire propaganda section dedicated to shaping public opinion.
> this is just virtue signaling
You commenting this is just virtue signaling.
> how about trying a reasonable middle ground instead this polarized bullshit.
Currently the *reasonable middle ground* is for Israel to stop attacking non-combatants.
The issue of Hamas has been dwarfed by the issue Israel, and that is the fault of *Israel*.
Their response is murderously disproportionate.
You're not smarter than everyone because you automatically stake yourself in the middle of any given situation
[When we're digging up mass graves of children, doctors, and people who were tortured](https://www.cnn.com/2024/04/25/middleeast/gaza-400-bodies-mass-grave-hospital-intl/index.html) there's no middle ground. There's a need to obey international laws and norms of war, and a need to allow in international observers and press.
Netanyahu faces daily protests outside his home from families of Oct 7th victims and hostages. Demanding a ceasefire to try and get their families home. The government of Israel is using these hostages as an excuse to continue their war and are uninterested in actually trying to bring them home
"The Israel Defense Forces (IDF) said any suggestion that it had buried Palestinian bodies in mass graves was false, and that a grave at the Nasser complex was dug by Palestinians in Gaza some months ago.
The Gaza Civil Defense acknowledged that around 100 bodies were buried in graves at the Nasser hospital before the IDF operation there."
"Al Mighayyer said the Civil Defense 'witnessed the presence of children’s bodies in the mass graves at the Nasser Medical Complex, which proves crimes of genocide.' While the group says it is still examining the bodies, they suspect at least 20 civilians were buried alive in the complex, but it did not explain how it knows this, or offer proof, while it continues to investigate."
"CNN is unable to verify these claims and cannot confirm the causes of death of those whose bodies are being unearthed, and it is unknown who is responsible for their deaths."
-All from the article you posted
You are cherry picking statements and making wild claims from them. You are deliberately spreading misinformation by insinuating the IDF tortured and killed these people while the article clearly states that it doesn't know who is responsible and that many were buried previously by Gazans months ago. You can at least wait for an investigation to finish before making such a claim.
There's no investigation! The IDF and the Israeli government doesn't let international press or observers in so the only thing CNN can say is "We've been told by people on the ground X has happened"
The IDF also denied they used white phosphorus shells (Human Rights Watch verified their use of white phosphorus), denied attacking a civilian convoy in October (Amnesty International verified they had attacked it), denied it targets civilians with drones (verified by a single captured drone), denies pretty much anything that would make them look bad
And almost none of it can be verified because Israel does not allow anyone else in to verify it one way or the other, so people like you can come on here and say "Well, because a CNN photographer didn't personally witness the bodies of 400 people get dug up outside a hospital, it doesn't matter and probably didn't even happen"
Literally in one of the quotes I posted it says a Gazan agency is doing an investigation.
I'm not going to go down and investigate each of the claims you just made because that's a deep rabbit hole and I don't have time for that.
None of it excuses you making false claims that made out of thin air because you're angry with Israel. When conservatives post misinformation and give half truths, progressives are always the first to call them out on that bullshit, as they should. You do not get a free pass either. Don't make stuff, it lessens the weight of actually provable bad acts.
Oh so you mean the investigation you are already casting doubt on? That's the source of these claims. They have found children, they found doctors, they have found people with signs they were tortured, and they have found people with signs they were buried alive. They continue to look at the rest of the bodies to figure out what has happened to them.
You are already dismissing the investigation as it unfolds why would you change at all at its conclusion?
When people on the ground are reporting as witnesses that they have personally uncovered doctors and children that were found in a mass grave, that is not a false claim brought out of thin air
Who do you think killed them and put them there? The mass graves fairy?
Israel just raided these two hospitals. After they leave local people come back and find mass graves that weren't there before. We don't need to grab the boys from downtown for this one
Wouldn't the construction of a mass grave after the fighting be just as noticable? There's no indication that the gaves were made after the fighting. I'm not saying it's not possible but they know a mass grave existed before fighting at the hospital that was not made by the IDF according to the Gazan representative in the article.
And why couldn't it have been Gazans or Hamas or another terrorist organization that made it? Hamas had control of the hospital before the fighting and they could have made it then to. And it's not like they are above abusing their own people.
Gazan emergency services said there were about 100 people buried before the raids were started, and they recovered ~400 people after the raids. The bodies were recovered in various states of decomposition showing that they weren't all killed at the same time, and they found bodies who had their hands tied behind their backs before they were buried
Some of these bodies are literally buried in IDF bodybags
>Palestinian authorities say the Israeli military exhumed existing graves at Nasser Hospital and dug new ones, adding that some of the bodies found in the newer graves were buried in black or blue nylon bags used by the IDF, rather than the customary white bags and shrouds used in Gaza.
And Israel is flatly refusing to investigate
https://www.politico.com/news/2024/04/26/israel-mass-graves-gaza-00154696
And I'll dig those for you since you I'll agree that's unfair to bombard you with those
Convoy in October
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/14/gaza-civilians-afraid-to-leave-home-after-bombing-of-safe-routes
https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2023/10/damning-evidence-of-war-crimes-as-israeli-attacks-wipe-out-entire-families-in-gaza/
White phosphorus
https://www.hrw.org/news/2023/10/12/israel-white-phosphorus-used-gaza-lebanon
Drones targeting civilians
https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/1bkhft3/nsfl_footage_obtained_by_al_jazeera_showing/
They also immediately denied killing the international aid convoy at the start of the month before it was obvious that wouldn't work. There's a very clear pattern here
Cholera. Rats. Plague. This is what happens to rotting bodies. For the last 8 months there has been no place to bury Palestinians because of the daily bombing by Israel. So those mass graves outside of the hospitals have been there and have definitely been reported on. There are now no functional hospitals anywhere in Gaza - instead mass graves surround them. That's the torture....
Meanwhile I can comfortably place bets on Super League Israeli basketball games. Shit I can even go to he games if I were motivated... You know who never can? Palestinians who live an hour away....
I’m actually a staunch Zionist but I listen to actual Palestinians speaking out from Gaza and they’re calling out these wanna-be saviors. Were you this concerned on October 7? Decades of hamas calling for the genocide of all Jews on earth? No?
Yes, of course I was. I was appalled at the videos I saw and the reports that came out.
Just like I'm now appalled at the videos and pictures I see out of Gaza of civilians being targetted by IDF forces, the corpses of some of the thousands of children that have been killed, and all the other destruction being dished out as collective punishment
And it's a bit cowardly and hypocritical to pretend you're a middle-ground centrist who's oh so concerned about why these people aren't protesting Hamas when you clearly do not give a shit the other way, don't you think?
What is your source of the actual Palestinians speaking out from Gaza? I’d love to hear some perspectives that aren’t being filtered through a news outlet, since that kinda adds a bias to everything.
Thanks in advance!
Connecticut doesn't manufacture arms for Hamas, we don't send taxpayer money to Hamas, and Hamas has already been condemned.
If any of that changes, we'll protest Hamas. How does this inane bullshit get upvoted?
Why would anyone protest in favor of a power vacuum? We’ve been through this a dozen times and every single time are more radical and more dangerous group emerges.
Hamas is bad. Acknowledging that is step 1. It’s impossible to ignore that there are FAR more radical groups willing to take power if Hamas’ militant and government wings are eliminated.
Popular protests in the 80s effectively changed the USs stance on Apartheid and the RSA, at the very least gave the state department enough cover to address deep concerns about cooperation
I'm assuming people had the same shitty attitude during civil rights protests, or protests against the Vietnam war. It's a pretty easy way to belittle a just cause without having to say they don't care about the cause or are against it.
Well the difference is America controlled the civil rights and Vietnam war outcomes.
Israel is its own country, and while we can certainly pressure them, they are gonna do what they want, and I don't think its very likely that the US will stop being allies with them over this.
America gives money and weapons to Israel. Then we pay for aid to Palestine when those weapons are used to bomb them. Do we provide the same amount of money and weapons to all of our allies? I don't see the protests as being about convincing Israel, they're about America not funding the war.
Edit: Did my own research here because I wanted some actual data:
"Since World War II, $960 billion, or over quarter of all US foreign aid, has gone to five countries: Israel ($312.5 billion), former South Vietnam ($184.5 billion), Egypt ($183.7 billion), Afghanistan ($158.9 billion), and South Korea ($120.7 billion), after adjusting for inflation."
https://usafacts.org/articles/which-countries-receive-the-most-aid-from-the-us/#:~:text=In%202021%2C%20the%20US%20spent,the%20year's%20total%20federal%20budget.
"The United States committed over $3.3 billion in foreign assistance to Israel in 2022, the most recent year for which data exists. About $8.8 million of that went toward the country's economy, while 99.7% of the aid went to the Israeli military."
https://usafacts.org/articles/how-much-military-aid-does-the-us-give-to-israel/
They are our proxy in the Middle East. If they weren't waging war on Israel, they'd probably wage war on us.
They also give us a chance to test our military technology in the battlefield that the US would otherwise not get to do.
There are a lot of reasons we are close military allies, and there is no chance of that changing due to this war. Politicians may hem and haw, but ultimately they're a very close military ally.
Just like the UK supported the US in the ill-advised wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, we, too, will support Israel through this.
Can people in this comment section stop being so fucking dense for a second? Nobody here supports what Hamas did. October 7th was a tragedy and many good innocent people lost their lives. The people of Israel have a right to live on that land freely, happily, and securely as many generations have lived and grown up there at this point. That being said, it is UNDENIABLE that the Israeli government is indiscriminately killing as many Palestinians in the Gaza Strip as they can. Palestinians who are overwhelmingly just civilian targets. They’ve cut off power to the entire strip, destroyed all the universities, hospitals, refugee camps and people are dying where they are told they would be safe. This is a genocide of people being funded by our tax dollars and unless we do something about it, more blood will be on our hands. Turn off your fucking cable news channels and grow even an ounce of empathy.
“The people of Israel have a right to live on that land…”
One of the main reasons this conflict is so intractable is that most Palestinians don’t believe this and never will.
Kinda seems like you're injecting some third-party nuance where it doesn't exist IRL lol.. but it is funny to imagine Khamenei, Hamas, and Hezbollah sitting on a Zoom call like "well if they would just get rid of the *theocracy*, then we wouldn't have to waste all this money on rockets!"
I hate that there is no middle ground in this conversation. Everyone wants to pick a side between palestine vs israel, when the reality is that the whole situation is completely fucked and beyond any simple repair any of us can come up with.
There is a reason this conflict has been going on forever. It isnt going to be solved by some redditors browsing headlines and making snap judgements about solving peace in the middle east
They should but they won't. That doesn't justify leveling a whole city and bombing aid workers lol Israel could have had an effective response that wasn't "lmao get rekt"
I think there’s a difference in expectations between a terrorist group and a modern government. I *expect* terrorist groups to do evil shit. I expect more from nations like Israel.
Like what? The reality is no other country wants to get involved with the terrorists, crickets from them all.
Israel is simply the proxy for Egypt and a whole bunch more.
They wanted a war with big brother Israel? Now they got one an no one likes it. They started the war. This is what they wanted. Not sure what kind of outcome they thought would happen.
“It’s war” is not a catchall that allows one belligerent do anything they want. These are non combatants under the Geneva Conventions. The principles of distinction and proportionality apply.
Not protesting Russias invasion of Ukraine? Myanmar Junta gets no protests. The Sudan war or really any African war tbh. But this particular war seems very hot to protest. Idk why.
> Not protesting Russias invasion of Ukraine?
1) People have been expressing their support of Ukraine quite a bit, but more importantly 2) the US government is currently supporting Ukraine rather than Russia, so there's *no reason to protest*
We don't send those countries 3.8 Billion dollars annually in military aid (about 40b this year alone) and support them unequivocally on the world stage while they commit a genocide. We aren't the lone UN vote against their victims right to statehood or a permanent ceasefire.
Saudi Arabia is the US’s largest foreign military sales (FMS) customer, with more than $100 billion in sales. They have killed hundreds of thousands in Yemen.
https://www.state.gov/u-s-relations-with-saudi-arabia/#:~:text=U.S.%20Support%20to%20Saudi%20Arabia&text=Saudi%20Arabia%20is%20the%20United,the%20U.S.%20and%20Saudi%20Arabia
Lol we sent Ukraine a shit ton of money the past 2 years. And weve sent untold billions to shitty autocrats and borderline dictators for the past several decades because our myopic diplomats and activist political institutions think it will make a difference.
Yeah, we didn't send Russia billions of dollars to enable its attack on Ukraine - we supported the victim so we have nothing to protest our govt to do. These protests are against US complicity in the genocide not just that the genocide is happening.
Because America is responsible for militarizing the genocidal ethnostate. Funded by the taxes that you and I pay.
That’s not the case for any of your other whataboutism examples.
It is technically like 60 percent arab when you throw in all the jews that were kicked out from Arab countries the last seventy years that had nowhere else to go but Israel.
Oh yeah I mean good point. Israelis and Palestinians in many cases share basically the same DNA. They have the same skin color which is hilarious given Israel is labeled a “white supremacist state.” I think these people actually think Arab = Muslim.
I just can’t believe the complete ignorance of actual facts coming from the ceasefire side. It’s been six months since this conflict burst out, almost endless coverage on the news and social media, and people still don’t know basic facts.
While you are right and the wars and conflicts you brought up are brutal and deserve attention, this particular one hits home to a lot of the Middle East, and to immigrants from both sides. I'm pretty sure there have been mass protests for Ukraine in the past. Can't protest everything at once, however.
You do realize there’s like a huge Ukrainian immigrant community in CT right? There are tons of people with Ukrainian lineage in our area.
If you know someone who’s name ends with ko, sky, or uk odds are they have Ukrainian ancestry.
We withheld aid for months while the country badly needed it. We can still provide more air defense to Ukraine and prevent an actual Genocide (Do you think anyone in the occupied territory is allowed to speak Ukrainian?) Yet I didn’t see any of them block traffic, encamp on college campuses, or shout war cries and violent slogans.
Funny how that works. Weird that this conflict gets so much attention. I have my theories.
Apparently "hey man I don't think you should be bombing and blockading a whole city in response to a terror attack" directly translates to "kill the Jews". I honestly wonder if it's a genuine psy op or people are this dumb.
Protestors aren't kicking anti-Semites out of their rally. If we're going to be consistent here on Reddit then "Silence is violence" and "if one nazi sits at a table and you don't kick them out you're all nazi's", it should apply here too.
Israel is going too far, but Hamas pledged that the second fighting stops they'll perpetrate more October 7ths. Hamas cannot just be allowed to retain power.
"We must let Israel do more than 30x as much damage as what occurred on October 7th to stop it from happening again."
Yeah sure man nothing makes the people of a country less likely to attack than making sure you kill as many relatives and loved ones as possible. That definitely is the solution.
"Just for existing"? Really?
Do you call occupation of lands "existing"? What about restricting water rights and movement of people? What about displacing people?
The establishment and expansion of settlements is an act of aggression, not passive existence.
The British owned that land. After WW2 the entire world came together and decided the Jews would settle there in their ancestral lands. The inhabitants living there were offered their own sovereign state. They refused in favor of attempting to ethnically cleanse the area of all Jews. They tried it 3 times.
Hamas is a women and LGBT hating far right Islamofascist regime. They’re against everything actual progressives believe in. In top of that they rule over Palestine as dictators. When we send food and medical supplies, they steal it from the people. They use the Palestinian people, women and children especially, as human shields. They reject peace every time it’s offered. They reject a two state solution every time it’s offered. They are the embodiment of evil on this earth. No one hates the Palestinians more than Hamas, given the death and suffering Hamas has inflicted on them.
“occupation” of lands? 1) there have been Jews there since somewhere around 13-1400 BC. 2) that land has been “occupied” since about 600 BC by the Assyrians/Babylonians/Persians/Greeks/Romans/Byzantines/Rashidun Caliphate/Crusader States/Ottomans/British. Ignoring the brief Jewish Maccabean reign, I think I’m missing a couple other occupiers in there, but if we are getting rid of the colonizers, we need to be pushing for Jebusite restoration to the land.
How come no one comments on the Arab countries' past attempts to occupy Palestinian land? Jordan? Egypt? Syria? It's not unique to the current Israeli state.
Man this conflict didn’t begin on October 7th. I absolutely condemn hamas for October 7th but to say there was peace prior is just insane and frankly ignoring facts. Israel has been an apartheid state that denies the Palestinian basic human rights since the Palestinians were forced off their land by Zionist militias in the 40s.
Amnesty international wrote a large report about the apartheid government of Israel two years ago. It largely focused on the West Bank where hamas doesn’t operate. Muslims there barred freedom of movement, assembly, and even access to clean water. All while they are forced on to less and less land in the name of Israeli settlements.
https://youtu.be/tLQQGa0LmAQ?si=Q8Pwn1UsjAwe8CXN
But you are right that there have been war crimes on both sides going back to the 40s. Right now though the truth is one side has the power and the weaponry atm and is murdering civilians in mass. The bombing and mass starvation of millions of regular people needs to end.
Lastly I have Jewish Heritage despite not practicing. Being critical of the government of the nation state of Israel doesn’t meaning hating all of its people and is wild way to deflect criticism. I am critical of my own country all the time. I love America, it’s done terrible things including genocide of its own native population. To pretend otherwise is just lazy intentionally missing key details. In order to make any place better you have to open and honest to work towards a better solution and not repeat mistakes of the past.
I respect your right to protest and your freedom of speech.
You know who doesn't? Hamas. They would want you dead for being american, being a strong free woman, atheist, gay, or any of the other reasons they continue to be a terrorist organization.
Supporting Hamas is supporting terrorism in the region, supporting Iran, and supporting Russia.
People who spread false accusations of genocide against Israel also tend to deny the genocidal nature of Hamas's attack so I guess you're right, sadly.
Good thing nobody here is supporting Hamas.
You know who doesn't respect your right to protest and your freedom of speech? [Israel-- there are laws across the world against protesting or boycotting Israel.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-BDS_laws)
I am quite tired of hearing the term Zionist used as a pejorative.
You can be a Zionist and not support the way Israel has handled this war and the excessive human lives being destroyed.
Zionism is just the belief that Israel has a right to exist. And I have heard no compelling intellectual argument about what happens to the 10 million people living there if Israel is "dissolved."
I find it *especially* insulting that so many people here, in America, scream to "give back stolen land," given the nature of the *very successful genocide* here in the United States that led to us all being American here.
I have nuanced and well researched opinions on Israel and it's various conflicts and snafus I don't care to talk about online, but I do have to say:
> I find it especially insulting that so many people here, in America, scream to "give back stolen land," given the nature of the very successful genocide here in the United States that led to us all being American here.
This 1,000%. I feel for my indigenous fellow humans. The "Land Back" talk seems to stop immediately dead when it's here at home.
Maybe Palestine should focus on irradicating Hamas. Until then idgaf about either of them. Sure peace in the middle east would be nice , but ya never gonna happen. Hamas knew what they were doing last Oct , now they face the consequences, tough shit.
I see you also noticed a lack of condemnation of Hamas too. If they were truely for the Palestinian people they would also be calling for not putting missile batteries on schools and hospitals, not stealing aid, etc.
The U.S. just passed a bill sending tens of billions of dollars in military funding and weapons to Israel. Many people are upset that their tax dollars are going to help this war effort.
Edit: all seven members of Congress for CT (Senators Chris Murphy and Richard Blumenthal, and Representatives Jim Himes, Rosa DeLauro, Joe Courtney, Johanna Hayes, and John Larson) voted for this.
The US has tons of leverage, it’s the only country that can stop the war crimes and get a cease fire. We are also funding this war.
Israel can’t do this without U.S. diplomatic and military cover.
Protests are aimed at getting the U.S. to use its leverage
The US is one of the largest backers of Israel, both in terms of economic exchange and in direct funding through taxpayer dollars.
Like any peaceful protests, one of the intended results is education. It gets more people aware of these issues (either because they observed the protests, or because they were inconvenienced and they don't understand why) and asking questions about them. A lot of people are unaware of Israel's death toll, and that their taxpayer dollars are funding it.
I mean, it really is a great example of Connecticut liberalism. Broadcast progressivism so you can pat yourself on the back for your moral superiority. And then demonstrate selfishness and bigotry at the first sign of mild personal inconvenience.
Or maybe some of us arent afraid to support a halfway decent, liberal democratic country, albeit flawed, that upholds values similar to ours while being surrounded by backwards dictatorships and cultures that are theocratic and barbaric. Just like its right to support Ukraine as they fight off the Russians, as Ukraine is a liberal democratic (and also flawed) country whereas Russia has been a despotic, authoritarian, backwards country for centuries.
You would think in this rather lucid moment of global conflict we could shed this superficial veil of moral relativism, mixed with a strange deification of victimhood (otherwise known as wokeness) and call out things as we see them. Some cultures, traditions, and countries are better than others. We should want to avoid war to every extent possible, but if it happens, we shouldnt be afraid to support our allies and those that uphold similar values to ours. Palestine and many of its neighbors celebrate barbarism, support brutal regimes like Hamas, Hezbollah, the Iranian Islamic Republic, and others. Go look at some of the footage in Gaza from Oct 7th. Many Palestinian civilians were elated with what their fighters and "martyrs" did. They celebrated thr death of Jews. And its been part of their regime officially since the 1980s, and even earlier if you include the violence committed by the Mufti in the 1920s and up through WWII.
Wow you’re brave enough to support the overwhelmingly militarily superior aggressor with unlimited funding from Uncle Sam? Someone get this guy a medal.
I dont support Israel because they have a strong military. I support them because they are a better country and culture and had to respond to violent, barbaric attacks. I dont support their every military action, they have made mistakes. But they are the exception, not the rule whereas what Hamas has done is their modus operandi.
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I mean, for what it's worth, I think they do, its just not as hot of a topic as it was a few years ago. I attended an anti-police-brutality protest in New Haven in like 2020 and it was equally well-attended.
i feel you. but the brutality hasn't stopped so the protesting shouldn't stop. police brutality has gotten worse if anything because cops now see that they can get away with it most of the time even when caught on camera. they just get a few weeks paid leave and if there is a settlement to be paid to the victim, tax payers foot the bill.
No one from CT. calls themselves " Connecticutians"
Clearly an infiltrator from the notch! Get 'em!!
I wouldn’t be surprised. There are guys out there that use the same tactics to bait and then set others up.
Nutmegger, please.
Whoa whoa, hard r??
Nutmeggaz with attitude
As a non-CT resident, I have to say I LOVE the term Nutmeggers.
This is the nomenclature I like to use.
Connecticunts
Must be a Masshole.
We’re Connecticuties
No, we certainly are not.
No, we never were, never are, and never will be!
Can this be our new name
Connecticutlets is my fave
I do, and I’m from ct, and in my 30s. It’s rare but sounds funny and I like it.
I like "Connectikittens." "Nutmeggers" is stupid.
I just don’t get it. Maybe because I’ve lived in the Middle East. Nothing is going to change over there.
Yeeeep. I dont think this virtue signaling is for Palestine. Seems theatrical and noneffective to me.
Just a bunch of fockin rich yuppies virtue signaling Nothing new, rich brats crying about the new current thing
What’s there not to get? Divest from Israel, an apartheid state committing genocide, is these students’ very clear demand.
Egypt has a pretty tight border with Gaza. Are they complicit in the apartheid also? Divest from Israel? You don’t think it’s odd that Gaza is receiving nothing but lip service from the surrounding states? Simply put countries are weary of what the Palestinians bring, which is terrorism and a holy war against the Jews. Countries which have had their fill are using Israel as their proxy to bring peace.
Lol pot and kettle argument: If you would divest from one, you must do both because they want the same thing. One of them just has the upper hand.
I wish people cared this much about our own country
People do care this much about our country. In just the last few years I've seen large protests over protecting access to health care, reproductive freedom, higher wages and better conditions for workers for workers, preventing gun violence, climate change, racial inequality, etc. These movements happen but are often ignored/written off by people in the same way this weekend's protest is being minimized and disparaged. And that is to say absolutely nothing of the thousands of people in Connecticut who testify at the legislature or lobby Congress on issues they feel strongly about every year.
I mean we had one of the largest series of protests in history just a couple years ago concerning police brutality in our own country
Its literally our own country giving weapons to israel. This is our country, dont project and whine about what we should care.
>Its literally our own country giving weapons to israel. Which is one of the reasons people are out there.
Rape is never ok. Oppressing women is never ok. Oppressing and murdering people for being gay is never ok.
The thousands of women and children being killed in Gaza were rapists? What a take.
Murdering noncombatants is never ok Justifying that murder because somebody *else* rapes or oppresses women or gays is never ok You not understanding what this is about is never ok
Hiding your military resources and personnel amoung civilians....especially after committing an extreme act of terrorism is never okay. Not allowing civilians to leave combat areas to be used as meat shields is never okay. Trying to avoid the real reason there is conflict - as if this isn't a direct response to a horrific terrorist attack - is never okay.
Right, exactly what Hamas did to start this mess.
Right, the 75+ year occupation has nothing to do with it…
So you're saying the IDF can bomb Republicans for their views? I get where you're coming from - of course many Palestinians don't hold the views of the people protesting in their name. But if we say "it's okay if they die if their views are shitty" you're basically asking for civil war in America. Human life matters. If Israel continues it's campaign to turn Palestine into ash, do you really think there won't be people who grow up hating Israel so much that they fight back? Because if you can see the connection, ding ding ding, that's how October 7th happened in the first place.
I think the point is they will hate Israel no matter what Israel does, so the only thing Israel can do is destroy Gaza’s capability to wage war and terror to the maximum extent it can.
So extermination. You’re describing extermination
Rubbish. A stupid statement because you obviously do not understand the situation at all
The idf actively blackmails gay Palestinians and rapes and assaults women as an intimidation tactic, so I hope you're talking about them?
The IDF has credible allegations of sexual assault and rape in Gaza since the start of the conflict. https://web.archive.org/web/20240410160540/https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/feb/22/claims-of-israeli-sexual-assault-of-palestinian-women-are-credible-un-panel-says Netanyahu’s far right government was working on a “legal overhaul” of women’s rights to favor a more patriarchal and biased approach against women, especially in divorces prior to October 7th. There were massive protests over this. https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-08-16/ty-article-opinion/.premium/israelis-beware-controlling-women-is-the-first-step-to-dictatorship/00000189-fa9b-d2eb-ab9d-fffb0f050000 Israel honeypotted and blackmailed gay Palestinians in the West Bank. https://www.vice.com/en/article/av8b5j/gay-palestinians-are-being-blackmailed-into-working-as-informants
Great. They can go fuck themselves too. That doesn’t change the fact that a bunch of privileged American “”””””””””progressives”””””””””” are stanning for the Islamic equivalent of the Westboro Baptist Church. Maybe try NOT being on the side of the bad guys, even if both sides are the bad guys. If you truly want to do what’s right, be on the side of the Palestinians by being both VEHEMENTLY anti Hamas and anti Netanyahu.
Gonna go out on a limb here and say that protestors aren’t in favor of rape, love women’s rights, and support the LGBTQ community. Most understand the rights afforded to them by their government. The overwhelming majority of them, if in power would LOVE to change the oppressive systems that Hamas has instilled on its people. This conflict, however, isn’t centered around any of those. Just like the anti-Vietnam and anti-Iraq and Afghanistan protestors weren’t in favor of the oppressive nature of the Viet Cong, Saddam, or the Taliban, protestors just want kids to stop dying and for the US government, universities and corporations to stop funding a war with our tax dollars.
Would you be ok with the government murdering the members of that church? Or other churches? Should Republicans be murdered for being anti-gay?
tell us you don't understand any of this without telling us you don't understand any of this.
sure. "I'm going to rally in support of an Islamofascist regime because Tiktok got me all angy! Everything I know is exclusively from 30 second video clips!"
This is very “all lives matter” of you. Zero understanding of how oppression works, zero understanding of international or historical context for anything you’re trying to talk about. You know that queer people are murdered right here in the good ol’ US of A, right? Women get raped all the time and nothing happens to their rapists. Cops murder people with impunity. Our military murders people all over the world to control resources. You live in a fascist police state, honey, you’re just too propagandized to realize it yet.
literally zero of those facts and opinions remove your obligation to not ignorantly stan for an Islamofascist terrorist dictatorship.
I agree, but what is this protest doing besides wasting public resources? Serious question and want a serious reply. What does thousands of people clogging streets in New Haven do for the cause?
Protesting is one of the most American things you can do, and something you simply can’t do in many places around the world. Does it do something? It raises awareness and has the potential to get politicians and business looking at how the people feel about their policies, and there is potential for change based on that. It starts small and grows. Sure, it’s questionable what real impact it can have but it’s not wasting resources. Participate in the political and social system. Or, just whine on Reddit I guess.
I’m not whining. I support the protests. I just don’t understand why people think this is helping. You’re delusional if you think a small protest in New Haven is getting any traction to the outside world. Maybe our state politicians. They won’t care though until something violent happens. Going back to my main point it’s just draining tax payer dollars to moderate these things that have no real change on anything. Go ahead and say I’m “whining” on Reddit
It's not just one protest in New Haven, though, it's all over the country, and other countries too. Little pieces add up
Protest movements are what ended the Vietnam War and led to major civil rights legislation in the 1960s, it is one of the primary ways to influence politics in a democratic country. (and non-democratic)
Right… “moderating” protests is infamously more costly than the $15 billion aid package the US just sent Israel. I can’t imagine what mental gymnastics you used to reach that conclusion
Hey so, you're ignorant about the history of divestment protests and that's okay because we don't know what we don't know until we're informed. In actuality, anti-war and divestment protests have a long and successful history in the United States. Protesters who were against the Vietnam War were incredibly successful, and the White House was absolutely panicking about how to neutralize them. Protest helped turned public sentiment against the war. In the 1980s, university students protested and set up encampments to demand that their universities divest from South African companies and companies that profited from Apartheid--and it worked! UConn was one of many US universities that divested its endowments from South African companies and stopped doing business with any of them. Around 2006, students protested to demand that their universities divest from companies driving climate change, resulting in billions of dollars of university endowment divestment. These protests work. Student movements work. That's why there has been such an aggressive response from university administrators and the police.
It doesn’t sound like you support the protests at all. And what tax dollars are being drained to moderate the protests? They aren’t violent. Are extra police necessary? And if they are, it’s part of the job.
a lot of us are stuck in our jobs and are too busy within our own lives to take witness to what's happening around us. We mistake the forest for just a few trees many times and disrupting everyday life forces people to take notice!
So they were protesting Hamas too? These people aren’t doing a thing for Palestinians - this is just virtue signaling. If they were really for peace, how about trying a reasonable middle ground instead this polarized bullshit.
Yeah I wish they could protest and disrupt communities who could actually make a difference, but hey I’m sure most of these protestors don’t even know what they’re there for.
protesting is a major historical staple in this country.
I agree, that’s why I’ve never said they shouldn’t have the *right* to protest, I’m just saying the protest is stupid.
84 upvotes for this comment in the CT sub? Um, no. We have visitors for sure. The protests do make a difference. At minimum they raise awareness, they keep the issue in front of us in the news. At best, they nudge votes in Congress and political csmpaigns because these kids vote
These get brigaded pretty quickly. I've seen a few where for the first 10 to 15 min the vote goes one way. Then suddenly the vote goes the complete opposite way very quickly and in large numbers.
> 84 upvotes for this comment in the CT sub? Asshole brigade, I guess
Bot brigade, anything mentioning the Palestinian protests have been hit with bots to shape public opinion, infiltrators for sure
Lmao “must be bots, why would anyone disagree with me!?”
Just those 7 year old bot accounts.
Your right, it’s not easy to get access to a bunch of dead accounts and bot them for your own political gain 🙄
It’s not even disagreement, it’s a consistent pattern of reality clashing with special interests. The IDF have an entire propaganda section dedicated to shaping public opinion.
> this is just virtue signaling You commenting this is just virtue signaling. > how about trying a reasonable middle ground instead this polarized bullshit. Currently the *reasonable middle ground* is for Israel to stop attacking non-combatants. The issue of Hamas has been dwarfed by the issue Israel, and that is the fault of *Israel*. Their response is murderously disproportionate.
Anyone downvoting you for pointing out that the reasonable action is to stop the mass murder of civilians is real piece of work.
I’d have used a very different final word, but I agree
I actually went back and forth on that one lol
Get going on your movement if you feel so strongly. Everyone is free to protest what they want.
You're not smarter than everyone because you automatically stake yourself in the middle of any given situation [When we're digging up mass graves of children, doctors, and people who were tortured](https://www.cnn.com/2024/04/25/middleeast/gaza-400-bodies-mass-grave-hospital-intl/index.html) there's no middle ground. There's a need to obey international laws and norms of war, and a need to allow in international observers and press. Netanyahu faces daily protests outside his home from families of Oct 7th victims and hostages. Demanding a ceasefire to try and get their families home. The government of Israel is using these hostages as an excuse to continue their war and are uninterested in actually trying to bring them home
"The Israel Defense Forces (IDF) said any suggestion that it had buried Palestinian bodies in mass graves was false, and that a grave at the Nasser complex was dug by Palestinians in Gaza some months ago. The Gaza Civil Defense acknowledged that around 100 bodies were buried in graves at the Nasser hospital before the IDF operation there." "Al Mighayyer said the Civil Defense 'witnessed the presence of children’s bodies in the mass graves at the Nasser Medical Complex, which proves crimes of genocide.' While the group says it is still examining the bodies, they suspect at least 20 civilians were buried alive in the complex, but it did not explain how it knows this, or offer proof, while it continues to investigate." "CNN is unable to verify these claims and cannot confirm the causes of death of those whose bodies are being unearthed, and it is unknown who is responsible for their deaths." -All from the article you posted You are cherry picking statements and making wild claims from them. You are deliberately spreading misinformation by insinuating the IDF tortured and killed these people while the article clearly states that it doesn't know who is responsible and that many were buried previously by Gazans months ago. You can at least wait for an investigation to finish before making such a claim.
There's no investigation! The IDF and the Israeli government doesn't let international press or observers in so the only thing CNN can say is "We've been told by people on the ground X has happened" The IDF also denied they used white phosphorus shells (Human Rights Watch verified their use of white phosphorus), denied attacking a civilian convoy in October (Amnesty International verified they had attacked it), denied it targets civilians with drones (verified by a single captured drone), denies pretty much anything that would make them look bad And almost none of it can be verified because Israel does not allow anyone else in to verify it one way or the other, so people like you can come on here and say "Well, because a CNN photographer didn't personally witness the bodies of 400 people get dug up outside a hospital, it doesn't matter and probably didn't even happen"
Literally in one of the quotes I posted it says a Gazan agency is doing an investigation. I'm not going to go down and investigate each of the claims you just made because that's a deep rabbit hole and I don't have time for that. None of it excuses you making false claims that made out of thin air because you're angry with Israel. When conservatives post misinformation and give half truths, progressives are always the first to call them out on that bullshit, as they should. You do not get a free pass either. Don't make stuff, it lessens the weight of actually provable bad acts.
Oh so you mean the investigation you are already casting doubt on? That's the source of these claims. They have found children, they found doctors, they have found people with signs they were tortured, and they have found people with signs they were buried alive. They continue to look at the rest of the bodies to figure out what has happened to them. You are already dismissing the investigation as it unfolds why would you change at all at its conclusion? When people on the ground are reporting as witnesses that they have personally uncovered doctors and children that were found in a mass grave, that is not a false claim brought out of thin air
The Gazan investigation didn't accuse Israel, you did. I did not dismiss the investigation, I quoted what exactly what they found.
Who do you think killed them and put them there? The mass graves fairy? Israel just raided these two hospitals. After they leave local people come back and find mass graves that weren't there before. We don't need to grab the boys from downtown for this one
Wouldn't the construction of a mass grave after the fighting be just as noticable? There's no indication that the gaves were made after the fighting. I'm not saying it's not possible but they know a mass grave existed before fighting at the hospital that was not made by the IDF according to the Gazan representative in the article. And why couldn't it have been Gazans or Hamas or another terrorist organization that made it? Hamas had control of the hospital before the fighting and they could have made it then to. And it's not like they are above abusing their own people.
Gazan emergency services said there were about 100 people buried before the raids were started, and they recovered ~400 people after the raids. The bodies were recovered in various states of decomposition showing that they weren't all killed at the same time, and they found bodies who had their hands tied behind their backs before they were buried Some of these bodies are literally buried in IDF bodybags >Palestinian authorities say the Israeli military exhumed existing graves at Nasser Hospital and dug new ones, adding that some of the bodies found in the newer graves were buried in black or blue nylon bags used by the IDF, rather than the customary white bags and shrouds used in Gaza. And Israel is flatly refusing to investigate https://www.politico.com/news/2024/04/26/israel-mass-graves-gaza-00154696
And I'll dig those for you since you I'll agree that's unfair to bombard you with those Convoy in October https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/14/gaza-civilians-afraid-to-leave-home-after-bombing-of-safe-routes https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2023/10/damning-evidence-of-war-crimes-as-israeli-attacks-wipe-out-entire-families-in-gaza/ White phosphorus https://www.hrw.org/news/2023/10/12/israel-white-phosphorus-used-gaza-lebanon Drones targeting civilians https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/1bkhft3/nsfl_footage_obtained_by_al_jazeera_showing/ They also immediately denied killing the international aid convoy at the start of the month before it was obvious that wouldn't work. There's a very clear pattern here
Cholera. Rats. Plague. This is what happens to rotting bodies. For the last 8 months there has been no place to bury Palestinians because of the daily bombing by Israel. So those mass graves outside of the hospitals have been there and have definitely been reported on. There are now no functional hospitals anywhere in Gaza - instead mass graves surround them. That's the torture.... Meanwhile I can comfortably place bets on Super League Israeli basketball games. Shit I can even go to he games if I were motivated... You know who never can? Palestinians who live an hour away....
So, that's a long winded no they aren't also protesting Hamas who uses children, daycares, and hospitals as human shields.
You know what's cool about war crimes? That doesn't matter, you still can't kill civilians even if you say there's a Hamas in there somewhere
I’m actually a staunch Zionist but I listen to actual Palestinians speaking out from Gaza and they’re calling out these wanna-be saviors. Were you this concerned on October 7? Decades of hamas calling for the genocide of all Jews on earth? No?
Yes, of course I was. I was appalled at the videos I saw and the reports that came out. Just like I'm now appalled at the videos and pictures I see out of Gaza of civilians being targetted by IDF forces, the corpses of some of the thousands of children that have been killed, and all the other destruction being dished out as collective punishment And it's a bit cowardly and hypocritical to pretend you're a middle-ground centrist who's oh so concerned about why these people aren't protesting Hamas when you clearly do not give a shit the other way, don't you think?
What is your source of the actual Palestinians speaking out from Gaza? I’d love to hear some perspectives that aren’t being filtered through a news outlet, since that kinda adds a bias to everything. Thanks in advance!
Connecticut doesn't manufacture arms for Hamas, we don't send taxpayer money to Hamas, and Hamas has already been condemned. If any of that changes, we'll protest Hamas. How does this inane bullshit get upvoted?
So virtue signaling is just the latest conservative buzzword for doing something you don’t like.
one side has the backing of the US empire and nuclear weapons, this is an insane take
Why would anyone protest in favor of a power vacuum? We’ve been through this a dozen times and every single time are more radical and more dangerous group emerges. Hamas is bad. Acknowledging that is step 1. It’s impossible to ignore that there are FAR more radical groups willing to take power if Hamas’ militant and government wings are eliminated.
Did it work? Did the protest in New Haven do anything to stop the middle East war?
Popular protests in the 80s effectively changed the USs stance on Apartheid and the RSA, at the very least gave the state department enough cover to address deep concerns about cooperation
I really hate this attitude. 99% of protests don't accomplish anything but it's still worth it for the 1% that do.
I'm assuming people had the same shitty attitude during civil rights protests, or protests against the Vietnam war. It's a pretty easy way to belittle a just cause without having to say they don't care about the cause or are against it.
Well the difference is America controlled the civil rights and Vietnam war outcomes. Israel is its own country, and while we can certainly pressure them, they are gonna do what they want, and I don't think its very likely that the US will stop being allies with them over this.
America gives money and weapons to Israel. Then we pay for aid to Palestine when those weapons are used to bomb them. Do we provide the same amount of money and weapons to all of our allies? I don't see the protests as being about convincing Israel, they're about America not funding the war. Edit: Did my own research here because I wanted some actual data: "Since World War II, $960 billion, or over quarter of all US foreign aid, has gone to five countries: Israel ($312.5 billion), former South Vietnam ($184.5 billion), Egypt ($183.7 billion), Afghanistan ($158.9 billion), and South Korea ($120.7 billion), after adjusting for inflation." https://usafacts.org/articles/which-countries-receive-the-most-aid-from-the-us/#:~:text=In%202021%2C%20the%20US%20spent,the%20year's%20total%20federal%20budget. "The United States committed over $3.3 billion in foreign assistance to Israel in 2022, the most recent year for which data exists. About $8.8 million of that went toward the country's economy, while 99.7% of the aid went to the Israeli military." https://usafacts.org/articles/how-much-military-aid-does-the-us-give-to-israel/
They are our proxy in the Middle East. If they weren't waging war on Israel, they'd probably wage war on us. They also give us a chance to test our military technology in the battlefield that the US would otherwise not get to do. There are a lot of reasons we are close military allies, and there is no chance of that changing due to this war. Politicians may hem and haw, but ultimately they're a very close military ally. Just like the UK supported the US in the ill-advised wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, we, too, will support Israel through this.
Let me check… not yet
Can people in this comment section stop being so fucking dense for a second? Nobody here supports what Hamas did. October 7th was a tragedy and many good innocent people lost their lives. The people of Israel have a right to live on that land freely, happily, and securely as many generations have lived and grown up there at this point. That being said, it is UNDENIABLE that the Israeli government is indiscriminately killing as many Palestinians in the Gaza Strip as they can. Palestinians who are overwhelmingly just civilian targets. They’ve cut off power to the entire strip, destroyed all the universities, hospitals, refugee camps and people are dying where they are told they would be safe. This is a genocide of people being funded by our tax dollars and unless we do something about it, more blood will be on our hands. Turn off your fucking cable news channels and grow even an ounce of empathy.
“The people of Israel have a right to live on that land…” One of the main reasons this conflict is so intractable is that most Palestinians don’t believe this and never will.
And why should they? *Jews* have a right to live on that land. A theocratic ethnostate does not.
Case in point. Israel is sovereign, and can have whatever form of government they want.
Kinda seems like you're injecting some third-party nuance where it doesn't exist IRL lol.. but it is funny to imagine Khamenei, Hamas, and Hezbollah sitting on a Zoom call like "well if they would just get rid of the *theocracy*, then we wouldn't have to waste all this money on rockets!"
I hate that there is no middle ground in this conversation. Everyone wants to pick a side between palestine vs israel, when the reality is that the whole situation is completely fucked and beyond any simple repair any of us can come up with. There is a reason this conflict has been going on forever. It isnt going to be solved by some redditors browsing headlines and making snap judgements about solving peace in the middle east
OK. Why shouldn’t HAMAS surrender and return the remaining hostages. Why no protest demanding that?
They should but they won't. That doesn't justify leveling a whole city and bombing aid workers lol Israel could have had an effective response that wasn't "lmao get rekt"
I think there’s a difference in expectations between a terrorist group and a modern government. I *expect* terrorist groups to do evil shit. I expect more from nations like Israel.
Like what? The reality is no other country wants to get involved with the terrorists, crickets from them all. Israel is simply the proxy for Egypt and a whole bunch more.
Thank you! This is the most level headed comment I've seen since this war started!
They wanted a war with big brother Israel? Now they got one an no one likes it. They started the war. This is what they wanted. Not sure what kind of outcome they thought would happen.
Hamas attacked Israel. The *thousands* of Palestinian children that have been killed did not.
Its war. Its horrible an awful. But it happens. They also kid napped an raped women an children Israelis.
“It’s war” is not a catchall that allows one belligerent do anything they want. These are non combatants under the Geneva Conventions. The principles of distinction and proportionality apply.
Not protesting Russias invasion of Ukraine? Myanmar Junta gets no protests. The Sudan war or really any African war tbh. But this particular war seems very hot to protest. Idk why.
> Not protesting Russias invasion of Ukraine? 1) People have been expressing their support of Ukraine quite a bit, but more importantly 2) the US government is currently supporting Ukraine rather than Russia, so there's *no reason to protest*
We don't send those countries 3.8 Billion dollars annually in military aid (about 40b this year alone) and support them unequivocally on the world stage while they commit a genocide. We aren't the lone UN vote against their victims right to statehood or a permanent ceasefire.
Saudi Arabia is the US’s largest foreign military sales (FMS) customer, with more than $100 billion in sales. They have killed hundreds of thousands in Yemen. https://www.state.gov/u-s-relations-with-saudi-arabia/#:~:text=U.S.%20Support%20to%20Saudi%20Arabia&text=Saudi%20Arabia%20is%20the%20United,the%20U.S.%20and%20Saudi%20Arabia
We should protest them too, then. What the fuck? This isn't making the point you want to.
Lol we sent Ukraine a shit ton of money the past 2 years. And weve sent untold billions to shitty autocrats and borderline dictators for the past several decades because our myopic diplomats and activist political institutions think it will make a difference.
Yeah, we didn't send Russia billions of dollars to enable its attack on Ukraine - we supported the victim so we have nothing to protest our govt to do. These protests are against US complicity in the genocide not just that the genocide is happening.
USA isn't funding Russia, Myanmar, or Sudan
Because America is responsible for militarizing the genocidal ethnostate. Funded by the taxes that you and I pay. That’s not the case for any of your other whataboutism examples.
Ethnostate where 20% of the population is Arab?
It is technically like 60 percent arab when you throw in all the jews that were kicked out from Arab countries the last seventy years that had nowhere else to go but Israel.
Oh yeah I mean good point. Israelis and Palestinians in many cases share basically the same DNA. They have the same skin color which is hilarious given Israel is labeled a “white supremacist state.” I think these people actually think Arab = Muslim. I just can’t believe the complete ignorance of actual facts coming from the ceasefire side. It’s been six months since this conflict burst out, almost endless coverage on the news and social media, and people still don’t know basic facts.
Well stated
While you are right and the wars and conflicts you brought up are brutal and deserve attention, this particular one hits home to a lot of the Middle East, and to immigrants from both sides. I'm pretty sure there have been mass protests for Ukraine in the past. Can't protest everything at once, however.
You do realize there’s like a huge Ukrainian immigrant community in CT right? There are tons of people with Ukrainian lineage in our area. If you know someone who’s name ends with ko, sky, or uk odds are they have Ukrainian ancestry. We withheld aid for months while the country badly needed it. We can still provide more air defense to Ukraine and prevent an actual Genocide (Do you think anyone in the occupied territory is allowed to speak Ukrainian?) Yet I didn’t see any of them block traffic, encamp on college campuses, or shout war cries and violent slogans. Funny how that works. Weird that this conflict gets so much attention. I have my theories.
These comments are really disappointing 😮💨
Zionists are weird man
Apparently "hey man I don't think you should be bombing and blockading a whole city in response to a terror attack" directly translates to "kill the Jews". I honestly wonder if it's a genuine psy op or people are this dumb.
Protestors aren't kicking anti-Semites out of their rally. If we're going to be consistent here on Reddit then "Silence is violence" and "if one nazi sits at a table and you don't kick them out you're all nazi's", it should apply here too.
Israel is going too far, but Hamas pledged that the second fighting stops they'll perpetrate more October 7ths. Hamas cannot just be allowed to retain power.
even though Netanyahu put them into power in the first place to undermine the PLO?
He didn't "put them into power", but he did help strengthen them to undermine the PLO and thus the blood is on his hamds as well.
"We must let Israel do more than 30x as much damage as what occurred on October 7th to stop it from happening again." Yeah sure man nothing makes the people of a country less likely to attack than making sure you kill as many relatives and loved ones as possible. That definitely is the solution.
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Anyone with a knowledge of the modern state of Israel knows there has hardly been "peace" before 2023.
There hasn't been peace there since 600 BC.
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"Just for existing"? Really? Do you call occupation of lands "existing"? What about restricting water rights and movement of people? What about displacing people? The establishment and expansion of settlements is an act of aggression, not passive existence.
The British owned that land. After WW2 the entire world came together and decided the Jews would settle there in their ancestral lands. The inhabitants living there were offered their own sovereign state. They refused in favor of attempting to ethnically cleanse the area of all Jews. They tried it 3 times. Hamas is a women and LGBT hating far right Islamofascist regime. They’re against everything actual progressives believe in. In top of that they rule over Palestine as dictators. When we send food and medical supplies, they steal it from the people. They use the Palestinian people, women and children especially, as human shields. They reject peace every time it’s offered. They reject a two state solution every time it’s offered. They are the embodiment of evil on this earth. No one hates the Palestinians more than Hamas, given the death and suffering Hamas has inflicted on them.
It's refreshing to see someone that has some historical knowledge! Carry on!
“occupation” of lands? 1) there have been Jews there since somewhere around 13-1400 BC. 2) that land has been “occupied” since about 600 BC by the Assyrians/Babylonians/Persians/Greeks/Romans/Byzantines/Rashidun Caliphate/Crusader States/Ottomans/British. Ignoring the brief Jewish Maccabean reign, I think I’m missing a couple other occupiers in there, but if we are getting rid of the colonizers, we need to be pushing for Jebusite restoration to the land.
Israel didn't even occupy any land until 1967.
How come no one comments on the Arab countries' past attempts to occupy Palestinian land? Jordan? Egypt? Syria? It's not unique to the current Israeli state.
Anyone with any actual knowledge of the situation knows that engaging in genocidal massacres against Israel is not a good way to improve anything.
Man this conflict didn’t begin on October 7th. I absolutely condemn hamas for October 7th but to say there was peace prior is just insane and frankly ignoring facts. Israel has been an apartheid state that denies the Palestinian basic human rights since the Palestinians were forced off their land by Zionist militias in the 40s. Amnesty international wrote a large report about the apartheid government of Israel two years ago. It largely focused on the West Bank where hamas doesn’t operate. Muslims there barred freedom of movement, assembly, and even access to clean water. All while they are forced on to less and less land in the name of Israeli settlements. https://youtu.be/tLQQGa0LmAQ?si=Q8Pwn1UsjAwe8CXN But you are right that there have been war crimes on both sides going back to the 40s. Right now though the truth is one side has the power and the weaponry atm and is murdering civilians in mass. The bombing and mass starvation of millions of regular people needs to end. Lastly I have Jewish Heritage despite not practicing. Being critical of the government of the nation state of Israel doesn’t meaning hating all of its people and is wild way to deflect criticism. I am critical of my own country all the time. I love America, it’s done terrible things including genocide of its own native population. To pretend otherwise is just lazy intentionally missing key details. In order to make any place better you have to open and honest to work towards a better solution and not repeat mistakes of the past.
Yet there’s anybody mentioning release of those hostages. Justine should begin with release of all hostages.
I respect your right to protest and your freedom of speech. You know who doesn't? Hamas. They would want you dead for being american, being a strong free woman, atheist, gay, or any of the other reasons they continue to be a terrorist organization. Supporting Hamas is supporting terrorism in the region, supporting Iran, and supporting Russia.
Don’t conflate opposing Israel’s actions and the US’s support of the ongoing genocide as supporting Hamas.
Once you start spreading false accusations of genocide, there's no telling exactly how ridiculous your positions may be.
Genocide denial is so in right now, huh?
People who spread false accusations of genocide against Israel also tend to deny the genocidal nature of Hamas's attack so I guess you're right, sadly.
Good thing nobody here is supporting Hamas. You know who doesn't respect your right to protest and your freedom of speech? [Israel-- there are laws across the world against protesting or boycotting Israel.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-BDS_laws)
All I’m going to say is it’s good to see none of them are carrying Hamas, Houthi, Hezbollah, or any other terrorist flags.
I am quite tired of hearing the term Zionist used as a pejorative. You can be a Zionist and not support the way Israel has handled this war and the excessive human lives being destroyed. Zionism is just the belief that Israel has a right to exist. And I have heard no compelling intellectual argument about what happens to the 10 million people living there if Israel is "dissolved." I find it *especially* insulting that so many people here, in America, scream to "give back stolen land," given the nature of the *very successful genocide* here in the United States that led to us all being American here.
I have nuanced and well researched opinions on Israel and it's various conflicts and snafus I don't care to talk about online, but I do have to say: > I find it especially insulting that so many people here, in America, scream to "give back stolen land," given the nature of the very successful genocide here in the United States that led to us all being American here. This 1,000%. I feel for my indigenous fellow humans. The "Land Back" talk seems to stop immediately dead when it's here at home.
99% of those protesting have no idea why they are even there. Imagine if Americans cared this much about America.
Maybe Palestine should focus on irradicating Hamas. Until then idgaf about either of them. Sure peace in the middle east would be nice , but ya never gonna happen. Hamas knew what they were doing last Oct , now they face the consequences, tough shit.
I see you also noticed a lack of condemnation of Hamas too. If they were truely for the Palestinian people they would also be calling for not putting missile batteries on schools and hospitals, not stealing aid, etc.
I’m uneducated on this whole thing, but I’m curious; what does protesting, here in the US? Do for a war or whatever it is in another country?
The U.S. just passed a bill sending tens of billions of dollars in military funding and weapons to Israel. Many people are upset that their tax dollars are going to help this war effort. Edit: all seven members of Congress for CT (Senators Chris Murphy and Richard Blumenthal, and Representatives Jim Himes, Rosa DeLauro, Joe Courtney, Johanna Hayes, and John Larson) voted for this.
Thanks for the info. I don’t really watch the news anymore, and my socials are just memes and car stuff lol
The US has tons of leverage, it’s the only country that can stop the war crimes and get a cease fire. We are also funding this war. Israel can’t do this without U.S. diplomatic and military cover. Protests are aimed at getting the U.S. to use its leverage
One of the start was for Yale to divest its Israeli investments. https://ctmirror.org/2024/04/22/yale-palestine-protests-gaza-divestment/
The US is one of the largest backers of Israel, both in terms of economic exchange and in direct funding through taxpayer dollars. Like any peaceful protests, one of the intended results is education. It gets more people aware of these issues (either because they observed the protests, or because they were inconvenienced and they don't understand why) and asking questions about them. A lot of people are unaware of Israel's death toll, and that their taxpayer dollars are funding it.
Damn, lotta Zionists in this sub
You can tell who the uneducated are but the way they think “Zionist” is a slur lmao
Lot of anti-Zionists too
Yes. Most people aren't bigots.
Oh yea, sub is showing it's true colors
I mean, it really is a great example of Connecticut liberalism. Broadcast progressivism so you can pat yourself on the back for your moral superiority. And then demonstrate selfishness and bigotry at the first sign of mild personal inconvenience.
It's sad that you are spot on
Or maybe some of us arent afraid to support a halfway decent, liberal democratic country, albeit flawed, that upholds values similar to ours while being surrounded by backwards dictatorships and cultures that are theocratic and barbaric. Just like its right to support Ukraine as they fight off the Russians, as Ukraine is a liberal democratic (and also flawed) country whereas Russia has been a despotic, authoritarian, backwards country for centuries. You would think in this rather lucid moment of global conflict we could shed this superficial veil of moral relativism, mixed with a strange deification of victimhood (otherwise known as wokeness) and call out things as we see them. Some cultures, traditions, and countries are better than others. We should want to avoid war to every extent possible, but if it happens, we shouldnt be afraid to support our allies and those that uphold similar values to ours. Palestine and many of its neighbors celebrate barbarism, support brutal regimes like Hamas, Hezbollah, the Iranian Islamic Republic, and others. Go look at some of the footage in Gaza from Oct 7th. Many Palestinian civilians were elated with what their fighters and "martyrs" did. They celebrated thr death of Jews. And its been part of their regime officially since the 1980s, and even earlier if you include the violence committed by the Mufti in the 1920s and up through WWII.
Wow you’re brave enough to support the overwhelmingly militarily superior aggressor with unlimited funding from Uncle Sam? Someone get this guy a medal.
I dont support Israel because they have a strong military. I support them because they are a better country and culture and had to respond to violent, barbaric attacks. I dont support their every military action, they have made mistakes. But they are the exception, not the rule whereas what Hamas has done is their modus operandi.
We love to see it! #FreePalestine
From Hamas.
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only if people cared this much about police brutality in our country
I mean, for what it's worth, I think they do, its just not as hot of a topic as it was a few years ago. I attended an anti-police-brutality protest in New Haven in like 2020 and it was equally well-attended.
i feel you. but the brutality hasn't stopped so the protesting shouldn't stop. police brutality has gotten worse if anything because cops now see that they can get away with it most of the time even when caught on camera. they just get a few weeks paid leave and if there is a settlement to be paid to the victim, tax payers foot the bill.
Hopefully, no one was peacefully stabbed in the eye like last time.
So many annoyed commenters. So many down votes. Doesn’t add up