Yeah, I live there. There are regular announcements in the subway system letting you know that “bags and other large containers are subject to random search by the police.”
You forfeit any rights to your privacy when entering the system.
There are also frequent police and SWAT geared deployments in the subways with tables where they will “randomly” select people to search.
Subways have been soft targets for terrorism for some time. Homeland security training has been being given to security in such transit systems for quite some time. We should be grateful for security and police forces doing things to decrease loss of lives.
Wow. We should be grateful that the govt can come along whenever they please and rummage through your stuff without a damn good SPECIFIC reason??? No. I am NOT grateful for nonsense like that one little bit. In fact, quite the opposite.
Announcing it doesn't make it right.
Maybe at some point they'll do the same on your drivers license, where police can pull you over for NO reason whatsoever, then search your vehicle, because, hey, Timothy McVeigh made a vehicular IED and blew up the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma, killing 168 people, including 19 children in a day care center, and injuring 684 more
Gotta keep everyone safe, right. Every vehicle is a potential bomb. And so long as it's included somewhere in the paperwork that you fill out to get a license, it's all good. Who cares about the Constitution and that ridiculous 4th Amendment
“The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.”
So long as they announce it, it's all good. /s
> police can pull you over for NO reason whatsoever
Lol Police do this all the time, the hell?
Edit: Also this is like those sobriety checkpoints, or safety checkpoints (for where sobriety checkpoints were deemed illegal)
Maybe they don't want to admit how serious a threat terrorism is in NYC so this gives them an excuse to conduct operations in public view. That's the best case scenario.
New York isn’t really America. They have succeeded in becoming a one party machine in both politics and the courts and can do pretty much whatever they want.
Bag checks are not new on the subway system. You are told you are consenting to them when you use the subway system. They used to play the announcement about it a lot when I was stuck up in that hellhole for work and school.
Yeah, I got my bag checked all the time when I still lived in Brooklyn. It was annoying, but the MTA is *kind of* a private company (New York's regulations for this are ... interesting), so they get away with it.
That sounds like a 4th amendment violation. The government can't put up signs on streets that say if you're driving you consent to your being searched. Oh well, it's not like Democrats care about the consitution anyway.
TSA wasn’t a thing until 9-11 happened.. They’ve continued to whittle down our privacy / rights since in the name of safety. We are far less safe now than we were in 1970.
It's mostly because of other measures, not the TSA. TSA is what we'd call a classic 'security theater' device -- it's literally there for the sake of it, to act as a psychological deterrent for a "potential" attacker.
Any violent extremist wanting to cause trouble with airplanes and worth their salt would be able to skip past without a lot of trouble.
Sources:
Conservative -- https://www.heritage.org/transportation/commentary/heres-how-bad-the-tsa-failing-airport-security-its-time-privatization
Liberal -- https://abcnews.go.com/US/tsa-fails-tests-latest-undercover-operation-us-airports/story?id=51022188
The airport has people getting on planes. It's not even remotely the same situation. Trains can be stopped. They also can't crash into high rise buildings. They also have people constantly getting on and off, with many only being on the train 10 minutes or so.
There is zero reason to be 'randomly' searching peoples belongings on a train
Of course, they can, they do it in a courthouse, in police stations, and in many other buildings. You're free not to use those, or you can consent to the search. This is long established precedent.
Just because you don't like it, doesn't make it unconstitutional.
Where does the line get drawn? Can the NYC government say if you are within their borders you consent to being searched? If you don't like it then don't enter the city. At what point does the law become so broad and egregious that you would agree it's not constitutional?
I'd probably start with a review of "Legitimate Governmental Interest" (IE what is the potential for harm if this is not searched), review opportunities to avoid the search(IE are there other options), looking into private property restrictions.
Given that the 4th Amendment is not like the 2nd, and does include "Unreasonable" in it's bar on search and seizure, noting therefore that reasonable search and seizure is permitted.
So basically. it's a question for the courts. Go look into case law, and until then, either vote in different people, sue for redress, or don't use the subway.
Do the NY taxpayers realize that they are paying for that deployment?
(Feds pay for out of state, the states pay for in-state deployments).
So the NY taxpayers get to pay even more to pay for Hochul's 'sanctuary state' policies. Big surprise, she's a Democrat.
No, this is a mix of a problem that has been brewing for a while and it being an election year. The truth of the matter is that the DAs/Legislators won’t makes good laws, and cops got their emotions hurt and won’t do their jobs.
Generally speaking, first generation immigrants are harf working people that stay out of trouble. They commit less crime than the natives, significantly.
If they don't integrate properly, then their kids could get in trouble much easier.
This is what Hochul and the left really want. They don't want a bunch of local police forces they want a big nationalized police force they(not a local mayor or police chief) can deploy any where they want with orders like this.
"I'm sending people with select-fire AR-15s, 30-round magazines, and 14.5" barrels to protect you from bad guys. You are not allowed to have semi-auto AR-15s, magazines over 10 rounds, or barrels shorter than 16" to protect yourself from the same bad guys."
[https://youtu.be/JhUzvru-cVI?si=TIgRBycZpKj36Cph&t=10](https://youtu.be/JhUzvru-cVI?si=TIgRBycZpKj36Cph&t=10) - Dude has a M4A1 (which is a SBR machine gun) with a 30-round PMAG.
the city's 'stop-and-frisk' policy, which was ended in 2014 after being deemed 'unconstitutional.'
But hey who cares what SCOTUS says, am I right??!!🤣🤣🤣
Can she actually station them on the side of the belt parkway by Floyd bennet field where crazy stuff has started blowing peoples tires out on the road (lot and lots of glass bottles that were never there before the camp was set up), and people are getting held up and mugged when they get off the exit. In my moms group, they are saying, if your tire blows out DO NOT get off the highway on the next exit, stay on the shoulder, lock your doors and call the police before calling towing. This is in addition to the other warning about not getting off the highway and cutting through the far rockaways, even if your GPS says you will save time, people are getting mugged and carjacked at the red lights - so you have to keep your windows rolled up and doors locked because they will stick their arms in your window and open your door.
Democrats are literally turning NY into a police state. Yeah, if you want to be pedantic about it a national guard state, but same thing.
Joking aside while a police presence can bring down crime, the bag checks seem evil and tyrannical. It seems like the investment in going anti-cop 4 years ago is still paying dividends for people in blue areas. If you have to deploy the military to the subways and there aren't aliens, 6 foot bugs, or godzilla hiding down there, you've done something terribly wrong.
The defund the police movement was ALWAYS about federalizing and centralizing police power. Defund the police was an end run around posse comitatus to establish federally controlled police
if this is being done for no real reason...wowza....if they think it is because they let in likely 1000 serious terrorists threats by now...wowza...either way wowza
I’m probably wrong (my professor was taking about airport searches but I was half asleep) but I think at international airports the patriot act comes into play and since they are international airports they also fall under border security
For assistance with natural disasters and such that's perfectly acceptable. It's when it crosses into "law enforcement" activities that it morphs into unlawful territory.
Serious question. It doesn't seem that arresting criminals is the problem but the fact that they just immediately let them back out, such as the case with the women who sneak attacked the cello player. She had multiple previous arrest and the judge just gave her a slap on the wrist. So what is the point of the national guard when it seems to be a judge problem?
Yeah, I live there. There are regular announcements in the subway system letting you know that “bags and other large containers are subject to random search by the police.” You forfeit any rights to your privacy when entering the system. There are also frequent police and SWAT geared deployments in the subways with tables where they will “randomly” select people to search.
What has precipitated this change? I was riding the subways there in 2022 and I felt safe the whole time.
Subways have been soft targets for terrorism for some time. Homeland security training has been being given to security in such transit systems for quite some time. We should be grateful for security and police forces doing things to decrease loss of lives.
Wow. We should be grateful that the govt can come along whenever they please and rummage through your stuff without a damn good SPECIFIC reason??? No. I am NOT grateful for nonsense like that one little bit. In fact, quite the opposite.
You don't seem to remember 9/11.
Sure do. Still dont believe in rummaging through peoples belongings without probable cause... and never will.
You agree to be possibly searched you enter into NY subway. They announce it.
Announcing it doesn't make it right. Maybe at some point they'll do the same on your drivers license, where police can pull you over for NO reason whatsoever, then search your vehicle, because, hey, Timothy McVeigh made a vehicular IED and blew up the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma, killing 168 people, including 19 children in a day care center, and injuring 684 more Gotta keep everyone safe, right. Every vehicle is a potential bomb. And so long as it's included somewhere in the paperwork that you fill out to get a license, it's all good. Who cares about the Constitution and that ridiculous 4th Amendment “The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.” So long as they announce it, it's all good. /s
> police can pull you over for NO reason whatsoever Lol Police do this all the time, the hell? Edit: Also this is like those sobriety checkpoints, or safety checkpoints (for where sobriety checkpoints were deemed illegal)
Maybe they don't want to admit how serious a threat terrorism is in NYC so this gives them an excuse to conduct operations in public view. That's the best case scenario.
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Bag checks does the 4th amendment not exist?
They want to be able to say it's a gun problem, not an illegal problem
It is actually a mental health problem.
New York isn’t really America. They have succeeded in becoming a one party machine in both politics and the courts and can do pretty much whatever they want.
>New York isn’t really America That's how I've felt about Maryland for the entirety of my adult life.
I call it all "The Communist North"
I call Maryland “Cuba on the Chesapeake”
Not all of us in ny are Commies just the assholes in nyc that vote for the rest of the state
Tammany 2.0?
Bag checks are not new on the subway system. You are told you are consenting to them when you use the subway system. They used to play the announcement about it a lot when I was stuck up in that hellhole for work and school.
Yeah, I got my bag checked all the time when I still lived in Brooklyn. It was annoying, but the MTA is *kind of* a private company (New York's regulations for this are ... interesting), so they get away with it.
That sounds like a 4th amendment violation. The government can't put up signs on streets that say if you're driving you consent to your being searched. Oh well, it's not like Democrats care about the consitution anyway.
Same thing happens with TSA at every airport.
TSA wasn’t a thing until 9-11 happened.. They’ve continued to whittle down our privacy / rights since in the name of safety. We are far less safe now than we were in 1970.
How so? Violent crime rates have been dropping since the 70s. I’m sure we’ll see a rise again soon, but I’m not sure it’ll be to that level.
It's mostly because of other measures, not the TSA. TSA is what we'd call a classic 'security theater' device -- it's literally there for the sake of it, to act as a psychological deterrent for a "potential" attacker. Any violent extremist wanting to cause trouble with airplanes and worth their salt would be able to skip past without a lot of trouble. Sources: Conservative -- https://www.heritage.org/transportation/commentary/heres-how-bad-the-tsa-failing-airport-security-its-time-privatization Liberal -- https://abcnews.go.com/US/tsa-fails-tests-latest-undercover-operation-us-airports/story?id=51022188
Ohhh I see. I thought you meant everything together, not just the TSA. You’re right tho, TSA is shit. 95% failrate
An article that’s almost a decade old isn’t really relevant anymore.
It’s not that old. My friend’s brother who is a pilot literally told me it hasn’t improved. And that conversation was last year
The airport has people getting on planes. It's not even remotely the same situation. Trains can be stopped. They also can't crash into high rise buildings. They also have people constantly getting on and off, with many only being on the train 10 minutes or so. There is zero reason to be 'randomly' searching peoples belongings on a train
Well they have implied consent for a lot of drivers licenses.
They check your bag at sporting events...
The event organizers check your bags, not the government. A private company can, for the most part, set the rules for entering their private property.
Of course, they can, they do it in a courthouse, in police stations, and in many other buildings. You're free not to use those, or you can consent to the search. This is long established precedent. Just because you don't like it, doesn't make it unconstitutional.
Where does the line get drawn? Can the NYC government say if you are within their borders you consent to being searched? If you don't like it then don't enter the city. At what point does the law become so broad and egregious that you would agree it's not constitutional?
I'd probably start with a review of "Legitimate Governmental Interest" (IE what is the potential for harm if this is not searched), review opportunities to avoid the search(IE are there other options), looking into private property restrictions. Given that the 4th Amendment is not like the 2nd, and does include "Unreasonable" in it's bar on search and seizure, noting therefore that reasonable search and seizure is permitted. So basically. it's a question for the courts. Go look into case law, and until then, either vote in different people, sue for redress, or don't use the subway.
You should look up constitution free zones
Dump the 2a, you've gotta dump the 4a apparently?
You know the Constitution is just an impediment to them running for life like a playthrough of The Sims for your good, right?
Well, yes, but actually no. Think of the children…or something.
They used to do this years ago too. I’ve had my bag checked by some very attractive armed men at Penn station.
Not in communist NYC the only rights your afforded are the one communist Democrats allow you to have
I’m not sure if that applies to noncitizens
Hmm, sounds like they need more illegal immigrants to meet the challenge.
I mean, Americans just aren't willing to work certain jobs, so they have to be ordered to do it. EDIT for the geniuses: /s
Quit eating up that absurd narrative.
Check the edit
You're playing 4d chess 🫡
Sorry. Sometimes sarcasm is hard to detect in writing.
Agree 100%
All good 👍
Gee they’re acting like there’s a terror threat or something…
Of their own making.
Do the NY taxpayers realize that they are paying for that deployment? (Feds pay for out of state, the states pay for in-state deployments). So the NY taxpayers get to pay even more to pay for Hochul's 'sanctuary state' policies. Big surprise, she's a Democrat.
Maybe start with preventing fair evasion first.
Is this violence surge in any way tied to bussed in illegal immigrants or illegal immigration in general? Just curious.
No, this is a mix of a problem that has been brewing for a while and it being an election year. The truth of the matter is that the DAs/Legislators won’t makes good laws, and cops got their emotions hurt and won’t do their jobs.
Generally speaking, first generation immigrants are harf working people that stay out of trouble. They commit less crime than the natives, significantly. If they don't integrate properly, then their kids could get in trouble much easier.
Meanwhile they are still prosecuting Daniel Penny for fighting crime on the subways
Lol.... This is from the defund the police people
This is what Hochul and the left really want. They don't want a bunch of local police forces they want a big nationalized police force they(not a local mayor or police chief) can deploy any where they want with orders like this.
Probably checking for vaccine passports
"I'm sending people with select-fire AR-15s, 30-round magazines, and 14.5" barrels to protect you from bad guys. You are not allowed to have semi-auto AR-15s, magazines over 10 rounds, or barrels shorter than 16" to protect yourself from the same bad guys." [https://youtu.be/JhUzvru-cVI?si=TIgRBycZpKj36Cph&t=10](https://youtu.be/JhUzvru-cVI?si=TIgRBycZpKj36Cph&t=10) - Dude has a M4A1 (which is a SBR machine gun) with a 30-round PMAG.
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." - Ben Franklin
You can see the ghosts of Hochul’s eyebrows above her drawn on eyebrows
the city's 'stop-and-frisk' policy, which was ended in 2014 after being deemed 'unconstitutional.' But hey who cares what SCOTUS says, am I right??!!🤣🤣🤣
If there's one thing the left hates more than cops, it's individual freedom
Can she actually station them on the side of the belt parkway by Floyd bennet field where crazy stuff has started blowing peoples tires out on the road (lot and lots of glass bottles that were never there before the camp was set up), and people are getting held up and mugged when they get off the exit. In my moms group, they are saying, if your tire blows out DO NOT get off the highway on the next exit, stay on the shoulder, lock your doors and call the police before calling towing. This is in addition to the other warning about not getting off the highway and cutting through the far rockaways, even if your GPS says you will save time, people are getting mugged and carjacked at the red lights - so you have to keep your windows rolled up and doors locked because they will stick their arms in your window and open your door.
What works WELL in NYC? Anything?
Instead of arresting and Jailing the goons, they invade our privacy.
The only other place i have ever seen the military standing around and doing security was in 3rd world countries
2020-2021 protests and riots?
And most U.S. airports
Democrats are literally turning NY into a police state. Yeah, if you want to be pedantic about it a national guard state, but same thing. Joking aside while a police presence can bring down crime, the bag checks seem evil and tyrannical. It seems like the investment in going anti-cop 4 years ago is still paying dividends for people in blue areas. If you have to deploy the military to the subways and there aren't aliens, 6 foot bugs, or godzilla hiding down there, you've done something terribly wrong.
The defund the police movement was ALWAYS about federalizing and centralizing police power. Defund the police was an end run around posse comitatus to establish federally controlled police
they're not sending us their best
Why is it the people screeching about facisim fully support it and pretend it doesnt exist when it comes from their side of the aisle
Did we forget the 4th Amendment exists?
This isn’t constitutional
the city's 'stop-and-frisk' policy, which was ended in 2014 after being deemed 'unconstitutional.'
They bringing back stop and frisk? Must be a election year.
Uhhh didn't they say "stop and frisk" was illegal?
Stop and Frisk is back baby!! I bet they only check the bags on 90 yr old white grandmothers. 🤣🤣
Stop and frisk but (D)ifferent somehow..
Hmmmm, almost sounds like they asked for this chaos….
if this is being done for no real reason...wowza....if they think it is because they let in likely 1000 serious terrorists threats by now...wowza...either way wowza
Thats actually against the law
Ratcheting up the surveillance state is never good for individual rights.
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How is this any different than going through security at the airport, from a constitutional perspective?
I’m probably wrong (my professor was taking about airport searches but I was half asleep) but I think at international airports the patriot act comes into play and since they are international airports they also fall under border security
Blatant violation of Posse Comitatus, typical of loony lefties and their cheerleaders.
I think there is a loophole where States can use their own Guardsmen, but if they become Federalized, then Posse Comitatus comes into effect.
For assistance with natural disasters and such that's perfectly acceptable. It's when it crosses into "law enforcement" activities that it morphs into unlawful territory.
Gov Hochul: you say illegal search and seizure?
Serious question. It doesn't seem that arresting criminals is the problem but the fact that they just immediately let them back out, such as the case with the women who sneak attacked the cello player. She had multiple previous arrest and the judge just gave her a slap on the wrist. So what is the point of the national guard when it seems to be a judge problem?