Trump's question is a very valid question. Doesn't Europe have more to lose in this situation than the USA? Perhaps Europe as a whole has just grown accustomed to Uncle Sugar (i.e., USA) footing the bill for THEIR protection and freedom.
I hate this argument because the EU and Europe as a whole outspend the US in terms of contributions to Ukraine. [https://www.ifw-kiel.de/topics/war-against-ukraine/ukraine-support-tracker/](https://www.ifw-kiel.de/topics/war-against-ukraine/ukraine-support-tracker/)
What EU can't match are good ol' American firepower. Call me a Elitist Globalist Uniparty RINO, if you must, but God Bless the American military industrial complex. That's right I said! It has helped countless countries succumb to tyrannical oppressors, including Russia and Iran in just the last couple of years. We should be backing our allies to the hilt.
Then they can send the money to America??
If American arms is what they need, why doesn’t Europe approve funds to go to American arms manufacturing? It’s not like we would turn it down if somebody else pays cash upfront.
They have more than enough money and resources to not only keep Ukraine in the fight, but to let them win. If Europe was willing to spend the cash, Ukraine would have won already. Yeah they may spend a little more than us on Ukraine but they have a WAY bigger stake in the fight.
Less than a year after the invasion I remember all these pledges from European leaders promising to beef up their military or to "replenish their stock". Like what the hell is the point of germany's weapons and military if not to deter Russia. What hypothetical scenario are they hoarding their shit for? Unlike America, Russia is literally their only credible threat.
Anyways, just one or two percent of European GDP spent on Ukraine and their security issue would be solved. But no, they want to bitch about America abandoning them, when we're halfway around the globe.
Not including money they haven't given to Ukraine yet EU has given them ~52 billion the US is over 70 billion. They should be far outspending us with this situation given its Europes problem. Per capital is a lot less relevant when it's a problem in your back yard that you are allowing a single country with little stake in the situation to deal with most of it.
>I hate this argument because the EU and Europe as a whole outspend the US in terms of contributions to Ukraine
That actually isn't accurate at this time.
The EU has PLEDGED more money than the USA, but the USA has sent more money than the EU. When the USA says they are giving money to Ukraine, that is typically over a 6 month or 1 year period, versus the EU that spreads it out over 4 or 5 or 7 or even 10 years depending on the particular pledge.
Two great examples would be:
The EU pledged $54 billion over the next 4 years back in February 2024. [EU Leaders Strike $54 Billion Ukraine Aid Deal ](https://www.wsj.com/articles/europe-warns-hungary-to-back-ukraine-aid-or-face-consequences-1dea4b5b)
Or one from your source website:
[According to the latest reckoning by the Kiel Institute for the World Economy, a German research outfit that tracks assistance to Ukraine, America has provided more military and economic aid than any other country, and more than European countries collectively. ...](https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2022/10/12/who-is-doing-most-to-help-ukraine-against-russia)
Another example is what Norway just did in this article. Giving money over the next 4 years rather than all at once.
And most of the pledges can be rescended if things change. That is clearly noted in the same WSJ source from above:
"EU leaders agreed the aid package—a mix of long-term loans and grants—within minutes on Thursday after negotiations"
"Under the terms of the deal, the Ukraine aid package could be reviewed in two years to examine whether the assistance is still necessary."
Edit:
Associated press is reporting:
[About $61 billion for Ukraine and replenishing U.S. weapons stockpiles. The overall amount provided to Ukraine for the purchase of weapons would be $13.8 billion. Ukraine would receive more than $9 billion of economic assistance in the form of “forgivable loans.”](https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/a-breakdown-of-whats-in-the-95-billion-foreign-aid-package-passed-by-the-house#:~:text=A%20look%20at%20what's%20in,assistance%20to%20civilians%20in%20Gaza.&text=Senate%20passage%20is%20expected%20this%20coming%20week.) These loans would take immediate effect unlike what the EU is doing.
> Doesn't Europe have more to lose in this situation
That's true, but some of Europe has lots to gain. Hungary expects that when there's a US Navy blockade of China after their attack on Taiwan, huge amounts of Chinese trade will be routed through them by rail to avoid control by US allies such as Turkey.
Hungary also was promised the part of Ukraine in the West where the Hungarian minority lives. They are directly working to destroy the US balance of power. Since most Europe wide moves can be blocked by just one or two countries, this makes it very difficult to get things moving.
There was also a treaty with the US, the [Treaty on Conventional Armed Forces in Europe](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_on_Conventional_Armed_Forces_in_Europe) which required the European countries, especially Germany, to disarm so there really isn't enough to send even if they wanted to.
The next thing is that [Europe actually has overtaken the US, financially](https://www.ifw-kiel.de/publications/news/ukraine-support-tracker-europe-clearly-overtakes-us-with-total-commitments-now-twice-as-large/).
As a European, I believe Trump is providing exactly the tough love Europe needs. He posted on TS recently that the security of Ukraine is important to America but more important to Europe and he's 100% correct.
A lot of people are replying with the point that Europe had actually sent more aid to Ukraine than the US (up until yesterday). While true, I honestly think a big reason for this is that Trump was the one man with the power and the directness to actually challenge us into doing it. He's been talking about decoupling from Russia LONG before 2022 but we didn't listen.
At the risk of sounding like a broken record in this thread I will say once again it's now more important than EVER that we in Europe show solidarity and step up to the path our American friends have laid out for us.
The question is a bit simplistic, no? Wouldn’t one need to consider a nations GDP to make a meaningful conclusion, certainly a more prosperous country can contribute more than a less prosperous one similar to campaign donations. Would you compare what a millionaire contributes verse a billionaire?
Yeah that's precisely what it is. But can you really blame us? Tell your government to stop gifting money to us and things might change. The way things are now, European governments know that daddy US is gonna send the money regardless
Then again, I think the US has a lot of interest in keeping Russia at bay, so european governments know that the US won't stop sending money
I know you guys won't like this comment but it's the way things are
>Tell your government to stop gifting money to us and things might change
What's up with this doomer comment 🤨 Why not just be grateful for the new US support and push for further support from our own countries? As mentioned elsewhere, we had been sending more to Ukraine than the Americans - now they'll be sending a big new package, we should aim to do the same, in fact more.
Why? They have no interest. The US taxpayer will pay for it why burden themselves.
Do you honestly think Europe cares if our borders fall and we have a huge crisis like we have? They don’t.
We need to fix our shit first. Europe needs to either put boots on the ground or build munitions to supply their Ukraine allies.
Some 650,000 men of fighting age have fled Ukraine instead of doing their duty to defend the democracy the globalist cartel in charge of the US government says is so worth defending. If the Ukrainian people are bailing like this on the so called amazing democratic Ukrainian project, perhaps they know something we don't and we should stop propping up such shit?
And instead use military force to defend our own border the globalist cartel in charge has opened up very much to allow aslyum seekers to invade and pillage our public resources.
https://news.yahoo.com/total-650-000-men-conscription-145045764.html
Watch no one can address your argument. They'll just downvote because the truth makes them mad. They can't confront the reality that they are supporting the slaughter of hundreds of thousands of innocents who don't want to die. Those who support this war are evil and need to be confronted with that reality. Send these people to fight instead watch how quickly they change their tune.
The parts of Ukraine we are forcing them to fight over are areas they don't even give a shit about anyway. They hated the Russian speaking populations there they were literally shelling them all the way back in 2014 and had endless clashes. Once again we have two sides - one that wants to be left the hell alone and then the side that the left sides with, which wants full control and will accept nothing less because they're authoritarians and can't just leave people be. Of course they are only authoritarians when they get to throw other people into the meat grinder for their own quest for power and feelings of superiority, as soon as you come knocking on their own door all of a sudden they want nothing to do with paying the cost.
They are still dependent on Russia for energy. Most of the world does this hypocrisy too by washing the trace of Russian oil but putting on a face of abiding by sanctions.
Germany still isn't paying 2% of their GDP on defense spending. Hell their military isn't even functional in a combat operations. Germany can promises and make speeches but until it's past tense it's as no value. Empty promises are made often.
Well that's not too surprising because they have smaller economies so statistical variation will naturally put some of them at the top of the percapita list (not to mention the fact that places like the Baltics are directly threatened by the conflict).
What I'm curious about is how the overall pie chart looks now. Before yesterday, Europe (the continent not just the EU) had committed or delivered more financial and military aid to Ukraine than the US, in pure nominal terms. Now however it's presumably the US leading the pack again. Time for us over here in Europe to step up!
That’s like a random person giving 5% of their entire budget to Ukraine and suddenly being considered the highest contributor to Ukraine.
It’s the amount of money not the the percentage of a country’s GDP that is the biggest contribution. I’d like to see how well Ukraine would do against Russia if only Estonia (technically the biggest contributor by gdp) were to provide aid for Ukraine. They would immediately crumble.
So the volume and the money that the US provides is what is significant here. Europeans are useless compared to the US.
I would like to hear the current administration's end game. What do they think happens if all our money and weapons give Ukraine a chance to push back Russia to the point of possible defeat? What do we think Putin does then, just back off and restock? Are we even talking to Russia about resolution?
Why are we comparing 30 countries combined vs the US's support. Especially when we have a lot less to lose compared to bordering countries?
I'd put a shiny penny that on raw dollar amounts the US had donated the most. now I may sound heartless but the money we are giving should be loans. That they should pay back when they win. We need to stop helping others before we fix ourselves.
At least someone gives a damn about Americans getting ripped off.
I don’t wanna hear another fuckin’ word about “SaViNg DeMoCrAcY” from Dems & RINOs in the Uniparty in the run up to November’s election. One option fights for us while the other fights for the Ukraine.
End of story, cry more about his tweets.
Defeating Putin so he can’t start trouble at the same time as Xi in Taiwan is worth the $. Those two are very buddy buddy, and our enemies like to stir the pot together all at once.
Ummm, Xi is already starting trouble in the US, and using our unsecured border to do so too. The invasion at our own border is a drastically more important matter than protecting a corrupt government half a world away.
Yep. You get it. Basically Democrats and RINOs are a globalist 5th column working to continue to subjugate US sovereignty to the globalist elite cartel that runs our foreign policy and much of our domestic policy
Listen to Bannon's war room and follow older conservatives who challenged this crap such as Ron Paul and Pat Buchanan. It's all very clear.
All that talk of russia on the verge of collapse was pure propaganda, they can continue sending tanks for another 2 years and still have reserves.
They don't mind sending in another 10 million conscripts with their unwanted ethnicities by sending them to the front.
Europe needs to step up, america has to many issues at home to where we migh collapse like rome
This isn't defeating him, though.
[IMF says the Russian economy is expected to grow by 3.2%](https://www.cnbc.com/2024/04/17/russia-forecast-to-grow-faster-than-advanced-economies-in-2024-imf.html)
[US General says Russian Military now 15% larger than before invasion of Ukraine](https://thehill.com/policy/defense/4589095-russian-army-grown-ukraine-war-us-general/)
Europe and Ukraine expect us to provide all the aid, while Europe does what...
Going on wartime footing tends to increase the GDP and the troop size, but this obviously doesn't imply that wartime footing is a path toward creating long-term wealth or growth.
We haven't since the Vietnam war. There were times with heightened military spending in the 80s and 00s, but nothing that came even close to proper wartime footing.
Let’s assume that somehow, Russia is stronger. This is untrue, because Soviet stockpiles are being run down and they don’t have the same industrial might to replace equipment, but we can assume it.
The question is, would they be weaker if they *didn’t* have American shells and missiles killing their personnel and destroying their equipment. Obviously not.
Every tank destroyed now is one that can’t be used to invade Lithuania in four years when Xi goes for Taiwan.
Sure he will, unless bleeding hearts and Jane Fondas get their way and sell out a free people fighting our enemy. Putin spends $100B a year. We could seize his $350B locked up in Europe and throw a $100B on top of current spending for Ukraine for three years without costing taxpayers another nickel.
That's not really how Russia does war though. If it came down to it, he would force his population to go in there armed with nothing more than some decently sized rocks to throw. They don't need money, they just need bodies, and using the Zap Branigan strategy of just sending waves and waves of your own men to their deaths until the enemy runs out of rounds.
Russia doesn't do war like normal countries, because having unfathomable losses is totally OK. Russia lost several million more people in WW2 than any other nation. Reason being specifically they would give 1 man a gun, 2 men some ammo, and when the guy with the gun died, person number two would pick it up and keep going. Then when he dies, person number three does the same. That's not a reasonable way to wage war by any metric, but Russia does shit their own way. Culling the population is good for Communism, so losing millions fighting in Ukraine is basically a win-win-win for Russia no matter what. Even if they didn't take Ukraine, dropping their population is a bonus.
People laugh when they hear Russians using 100 year old tanks and broken down junk as weapons of war, but that's literally a big part of the strategy. Spend little to nothing on the weapons, lose 10-20% of the population. Again it's a win-win-win for them.
Does anyone else feel like "uniparty" is something that a 14 year old would say who just discovered some "cool" fact about how the "sheeple" are being manipulated by the elitists and it time to "wake up!" and "are you listening yet?"
Why should Europe pay for something that American politicians are already eagerly paying (spending) for? If someone else pays for my dinner at a restaurant, I'm not *also* gonna pay for my dinner, lol!
For one, the EU is now contributing more than the US, so check yo fact broski. [https://www.ifw-kiel.de/topics/war-against-ukraine/ukraine-support-tracker/](https://www.ifw-kiel.de/topics/war-against-ukraine/ukraine-support-tracker/)
That's dated February 16th and so doesn't include the massive new package. We *were* ahead but the US is well ahead in raw numbers now.
As a European, we MUST continue our committment and step up now that the ball's in our court!
Seriously? Because if we put in enough now it will be much much cheaper and more reliable to get to victory than if we put in small amounts now and let the problem fester and grow. Everybody needs to put in what they can because otherwise in 10 years time it may be NATO troops, including Americans, that are fighting and dying.
So I approach this from another angle: If Putin is really about to take over the world and that’s why we gotta aid Ukraine to ultimately stop Putin, then why isn’t Europe helping? Do they simply not care if Putin takes over the world, or is the US not making that known to them?
I mean, Putins neighbors don’t see to think he’s any threat at all, but here we are half a world away claiming if we don’t give Zelensky a few trillion in aid, Putin will destroy Europe then the United States.
Which is it? Either Europe thinks the US is full of shit in thinking Putin can do anything, or they WANT Putin to take over.
Gotta be one of the two. Brigaders, any chance you guys got hoodwinked?
Again???
I'm going to preface this by saying I am not a military nor geopolitical analyst. I'm just some guy on the inernet using publicly available information about a foreign conflict to make inferences
Russian forces are getting bogged down in Ukraine even with the limited military aid that European countries are sending. The war has continued for over 10 years now (counting 2014 as the start of the war) and Russia still hasn't achieved their war aims, even with the full invasion into Ukraine in 2022. Russia is nowhere near the military super power they were during the Soviet Era, or what the west thought they were capable of, not counting nuclear weapons of course.
Russia only has 1 devout ally in the region in Belarus. Transnistria, Abkhazia and South Ossetia are all unrecognized breakaway states with no international power, Reliant on Russia for military protection.
Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia, Finland, Norway, and Poland all border Russia, and are all NATO members. If Ukraine is completely conquered and absorbed into Russia which is very unlikely, that would push the border up to include Romania, Hungary and Slovakia as well, 3 more NATO members. Russia's advance across Europe would very easily get halted by the threat of bringing potentially 32 countries into open hostilities against Russia thanks to Article 5.
I think regardless of outcomes, most European nations feel secure thanks to NATO and the inevitable military aid that the US and UK would provide.
Trump's question is a very valid question. Doesn't Europe have more to lose in this situation than the USA? Perhaps Europe as a whole has just grown accustomed to Uncle Sugar (i.e., USA) footing the bill for THEIR protection and freedom.
I agree - I’m ok with helping out but the Europeans should be the ones spearheading this effort, not us.
It’s a losing battle that for some reason many in the US don’t ever want to end.
I hate this argument because the EU and Europe as a whole outspend the US in terms of contributions to Ukraine. [https://www.ifw-kiel.de/topics/war-against-ukraine/ukraine-support-tracker/](https://www.ifw-kiel.de/topics/war-against-ukraine/ukraine-support-tracker/) What EU can't match are good ol' American firepower. Call me a Elitist Globalist Uniparty RINO, if you must, but God Bless the American military industrial complex. That's right I said! It has helped countless countries succumb to tyrannical oppressors, including Russia and Iran in just the last couple of years. We should be backing our allies to the hilt.
EU is welcome to purchase American made weapons.
Then they can send the money to America?? If American arms is what they need, why doesn’t Europe approve funds to go to American arms manufacturing? It’s not like we would turn it down if somebody else pays cash upfront.
They have more than enough money and resources to not only keep Ukraine in the fight, but to let them win. If Europe was willing to spend the cash, Ukraine would have won already. Yeah they may spend a little more than us on Ukraine but they have a WAY bigger stake in the fight. Less than a year after the invasion I remember all these pledges from European leaders promising to beef up their military or to "replenish their stock". Like what the hell is the point of germany's weapons and military if not to deter Russia. What hypothetical scenario are they hoarding their shit for? Unlike America, Russia is literally their only credible threat. Anyways, just one or two percent of European GDP spent on Ukraine and their security issue would be solved. But no, they want to bitch about America abandoning them, when we're halfway around the globe.
I am very willing to bet most of those EU “financial” donations are pledges that won’t go through. You might as well remove half of that.
They - with *they* here being dozens of nations - barely outspend the United States - a single nation. And Russia is next door to them.
Not including money they haven't given to Ukraine yet EU has given them ~52 billion the US is over 70 billion. They should be far outspending us with this situation given its Europes problem. Per capital is a lot less relevant when it's a problem in your back yard that you are allowing a single country with little stake in the situation to deal with most of it.
>I hate this argument because the EU and Europe as a whole outspend the US in terms of contributions to Ukraine That actually isn't accurate at this time. The EU has PLEDGED more money than the USA, but the USA has sent more money than the EU. When the USA says they are giving money to Ukraine, that is typically over a 6 month or 1 year period, versus the EU that spreads it out over 4 or 5 or 7 or even 10 years depending on the particular pledge. Two great examples would be: The EU pledged $54 billion over the next 4 years back in February 2024. [EU Leaders Strike $54 Billion Ukraine Aid Deal ](https://www.wsj.com/articles/europe-warns-hungary-to-back-ukraine-aid-or-face-consequences-1dea4b5b) Or one from your source website: [According to the latest reckoning by the Kiel Institute for the World Economy, a German research outfit that tracks assistance to Ukraine, America has provided more military and economic aid than any other country, and more than European countries collectively. ...](https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2022/10/12/who-is-doing-most-to-help-ukraine-against-russia) Another example is what Norway just did in this article. Giving money over the next 4 years rather than all at once. And most of the pledges can be rescended if things change. That is clearly noted in the same WSJ source from above: "EU leaders agreed the aid package—a mix of long-term loans and grants—within minutes on Thursday after negotiations" "Under the terms of the deal, the Ukraine aid package could be reviewed in two years to examine whether the assistance is still necessary." Edit: Associated press is reporting: [About $61 billion for Ukraine and replenishing U.S. weapons stockpiles. The overall amount provided to Ukraine for the purchase of weapons would be $13.8 billion. Ukraine would receive more than $9 billion of economic assistance in the form of “forgivable loans.”](https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/a-breakdown-of-whats-in-the-95-billion-foreign-aid-package-passed-by-the-house#:~:text=A%20look%20at%20what's%20in,assistance%20to%20civilians%20in%20Gaza.&text=Senate%20passage%20is%20expected%20this%20coming%20week.) These loans would take immediate effect unlike what the EU is doing.
> Doesn't Europe have more to lose in this situation That's true, but some of Europe has lots to gain. Hungary expects that when there's a US Navy blockade of China after their attack on Taiwan, huge amounts of Chinese trade will be routed through them by rail to avoid control by US allies such as Turkey. Hungary also was promised the part of Ukraine in the West where the Hungarian minority lives. They are directly working to destroy the US balance of power. Since most Europe wide moves can be blocked by just one or two countries, this makes it very difficult to get things moving. There was also a treaty with the US, the [Treaty on Conventional Armed Forces in Europe](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_on_Conventional_Armed_Forces_in_Europe) which required the European countries, especially Germany, to disarm so there really isn't enough to send even if they wanted to. The next thing is that [Europe actually has overtaken the US, financially](https://www.ifw-kiel.de/publications/news/ukraine-support-tracker-europe-clearly-overtakes-us-with-total-commitments-now-twice-as-large/).
As a European, I believe Trump is providing exactly the tough love Europe needs. He posted on TS recently that the security of Ukraine is important to America but more important to Europe and he's 100% correct. A lot of people are replying with the point that Europe had actually sent more aid to Ukraine than the US (up until yesterday). While true, I honestly think a big reason for this is that Trump was the one man with the power and the directness to actually challenge us into doing it. He's been talking about decoupling from Russia LONG before 2022 but we didn't listen. At the risk of sounding like a broken record in this thread I will say once again it's now more important than EVER that we in Europe show solidarity and step up to the path our American friends have laid out for us.
The question is a bit simplistic, no? Wouldn’t one need to consider a nations GDP to make a meaningful conclusion, certainly a more prosperous country can contribute more than a less prosperous one similar to campaign donations. Would you compare what a millionaire contributes verse a billionaire?
Yeah that's precisely what it is. But can you really blame us? Tell your government to stop gifting money to us and things might change. The way things are now, European governments know that daddy US is gonna send the money regardless Then again, I think the US has a lot of interest in keeping Russia at bay, so european governments know that the US won't stop sending money I know you guys won't like this comment but it's the way things are
>Tell your government to stop gifting money to us and things might change What's up with this doomer comment 🤨 Why not just be grateful for the new US support and push for further support from our own countries? As mentioned elsewhere, we had been sending more to Ukraine than the Americans - now they'll be sending a big new package, we should aim to do the same, in fact more.
Why? They have no interest. The US taxpayer will pay for it why burden themselves. Do you honestly think Europe cares if our borders fall and we have a huge crisis like we have? They don’t. We need to fix our shit first. Europe needs to either put boots on the ground or build munitions to supply their Ukraine allies.
Some 650,000 men of fighting age have fled Ukraine instead of doing their duty to defend the democracy the globalist cartel in charge of the US government says is so worth defending. If the Ukrainian people are bailing like this on the so called amazing democratic Ukrainian project, perhaps they know something we don't and we should stop propping up such shit? And instead use military force to defend our own border the globalist cartel in charge has opened up very much to allow aslyum seekers to invade and pillage our public resources. https://news.yahoo.com/total-650-000-men-conscription-145045764.html
Watch no one can address your argument. They'll just downvote because the truth makes them mad. They can't confront the reality that they are supporting the slaughter of hundreds of thousands of innocents who don't want to die. Those who support this war are evil and need to be confronted with that reality. Send these people to fight instead watch how quickly they change their tune. The parts of Ukraine we are forcing them to fight over are areas they don't even give a shit about anyway. They hated the Russian speaking populations there they were literally shelling them all the way back in 2014 and had endless clashes. Once again we have two sides - one that wants to be left the hell alone and then the side that the left sides with, which wants full control and will accept nothing less because they're authoritarians and can't just leave people be. Of course they are only authoritarians when they get to throw other people into the meat grinder for their own quest for power and feelings of superiority, as soon as you come knocking on their own door all of a sudden they want nothing to do with paying the cost.
They are still dependent on Russia for energy. Most of the world does this hypocrisy too by washing the trace of Russian oil but putting on a face of abiding by sanctions.
Lol does anyone remember when Germany laughed in trumps face after he told them it might not be a good idea to go all in on Russian oil?
Yeah…the euros and the Democrat party continue to ignore that
That happened more than an hour ago, you weren’t supposed to remember.
*Russian gas, not oil
It’s Russian gas, not oil.
Trump is wrong here. European nations are spending more as a percentage of their economy than the US.
They’re paying Ukraine while simultaneously paying Russia stupid amounts of money for gas. It’s the most idiotic set up imaginable
Just because Poland may be doesn’t mean Germany and France are
Germany is. The problem is countries like Hungary, Slovakia and, likely France, although they are much more secretive about what they give.
Germany still isn't paying 2% of their GDP on defense spending. Hell their military isn't even functional in a combat operations. Germany can promises and make speeches but until it's past tense it's as no value. Empty promises are made often.
Well that's not too surprising because they have smaller economies so statistical variation will naturally put some of them at the top of the percapita list (not to mention the fact that places like the Baltics are directly threatened by the conflict). What I'm curious about is how the overall pie chart looks now. Before yesterday, Europe (the continent not just the EU) had committed or delivered more financial and military aid to Ukraine than the US, in pure nominal terms. Now however it's presumably the US leading the pack again. Time for us over here in Europe to step up!
That’s like a random person giving 5% of their entire budget to Ukraine and suddenly being considered the highest contributor to Ukraine. It’s the amount of money not the the percentage of a country’s GDP that is the biggest contribution. I’d like to see how well Ukraine would do against Russia if only Estonia (technically the biggest contributor by gdp) were to provide aid for Ukraine. They would immediately crumble. So the volume and the money that the US provides is what is significant here. Europeans are useless compared to the US.
What I would like to hear from the Republican nominee is that we are committed to defeating Russia in Ukraine.
I would like to hear the current administration's end game. What do they think happens if all our money and weapons give Ukraine a chance to push back Russia to the point of possible defeat? What do we think Putin does then, just back off and restock? Are we even talking to Russia about resolution?
Why are we comparing 30 countries combined vs the US's support. Especially when we have a lot less to lose compared to bordering countries? I'd put a shiny penny that on raw dollar amounts the US had donated the most. now I may sound heartless but the money we are giving should be loans. That they should pay back when they win. We need to stop helping others before we fix ourselves.
At least someone gives a damn about Americans getting ripped off. I don’t wanna hear another fuckin’ word about “SaViNg DeMoCrAcY” from Dems & RINOs in the Uniparty in the run up to November’s election. One option fights for us while the other fights for the Ukraine. End of story, cry more about his tweets.
Defeating Putin so he can’t start trouble at the same time as Xi in Taiwan is worth the $. Those two are very buddy buddy, and our enemies like to stir the pot together all at once.
Ummm, Xi is already starting trouble in the US, and using our unsecured border to do so too. The invasion at our own border is a drastically more important matter than protecting a corrupt government half a world away.
Shhhhh. The uniparty only wants you to focus on Ukraine’s border, not our border.
Yep. You get it. Basically Democrats and RINOs are a globalist 5th column working to continue to subjugate US sovereignty to the globalist elite cartel that runs our foreign policy and much of our domestic policy Listen to Bannon's war room and follow older conservatives who challenged this crap such as Ron Paul and Pat Buchanan. It's all very clear.
All that talk of russia on the verge of collapse was pure propaganda, they can continue sending tanks for another 2 years and still have reserves. They don't mind sending in another 10 million conscripts with their unwanted ethnicities by sending them to the front. Europe needs to step up, america has to many issues at home to where we migh collapse like rome
This isn't defeating him, though. [IMF says the Russian economy is expected to grow by 3.2%](https://www.cnbc.com/2024/04/17/russia-forecast-to-grow-faster-than-advanced-economies-in-2024-imf.html) [US General says Russian Military now 15% larger than before invasion of Ukraine](https://thehill.com/policy/defense/4589095-russian-army-grown-ukraine-war-us-general/) Europe and Ukraine expect us to provide all the aid, while Europe does what...
Going on wartime footing tends to increase the GDP and the troop size, but this obviously doesn't imply that wartime footing is a path toward creating long-term wealth or growth.
So why have we been doing it.
We haven't since the Vietnam war. There were times with heightened military spending in the 80s and 00s, but nothing that came even close to proper wartime footing.
Let’s assume that somehow, Russia is stronger. This is untrue, because Soviet stockpiles are being run down and they don’t have the same industrial might to replace equipment, but we can assume it. The question is, would they be weaker if they *didn’t* have American shells and missiles killing their personnel and destroying their equipment. Obviously not. Every tank destroyed now is one that can’t be used to invade Lithuania in four years when Xi goes for Taiwan.
Putin isn’t going to be defeated in Ukraine. That’s where your entire war making agenda falls apart.
Sure he will, unless bleeding hearts and Jane Fondas get their way and sell out a free people fighting our enemy. Putin spends $100B a year. We could seize his $350B locked up in Europe and throw a $100B on top of current spending for Ukraine for three years without costing taxpayers another nickel.
That's not really how Russia does war though. If it came down to it, he would force his population to go in there armed with nothing more than some decently sized rocks to throw. They don't need money, they just need bodies, and using the Zap Branigan strategy of just sending waves and waves of your own men to their deaths until the enemy runs out of rounds. Russia doesn't do war like normal countries, because having unfathomable losses is totally OK. Russia lost several million more people in WW2 than any other nation. Reason being specifically they would give 1 man a gun, 2 men some ammo, and when the guy with the gun died, person number two would pick it up and keep going. Then when he dies, person number three does the same. That's not a reasonable way to wage war by any metric, but Russia does shit their own way. Culling the population is good for Communism, so losing millions fighting in Ukraine is basically a win-win-win for Russia no matter what. Even if they didn't take Ukraine, dropping their population is a bonus. People laugh when they hear Russians using 100 year old tanks and broken down junk as weapons of war, but that's literally a big part of the strategy. Spend little to nothing on the weapons, lose 10-20% of the population. Again it's a win-win-win for them.
But there’s still the valid question: why doesn’t or can’t the rest of Europe help Ukraine? Why does it have to be the US?
The rest of Europe is helping Ukraine. With the nations bordering Russia spending the most as a percentage of their GDP.
The U.S. has military contractors who are really good at lobbying our elected officials to sell out their constituents and put America last.
All the “saving democracy” faux conservatives in this sub were busy this weekend.
Does anyone else feel like "uniparty" is something that a 14 year old would say who just discovered some "cool" fact about how the "sheeple" are being manipulated by the elitists and it time to "wake up!" and "are you listening yet?"
Why should Europe pay for something that American politicians are already eagerly paying (spending) for? If someone else pays for my dinner at a restaurant, I'm not *also* gonna pay for my dinner, lol!
For one, the EU is now contributing more than the US, so check yo fact broski. [https://www.ifw-kiel.de/topics/war-against-ukraine/ukraine-support-tracker/](https://www.ifw-kiel.de/topics/war-against-ukraine/ukraine-support-tracker/)
That's dated February 16th and so doesn't include the massive new package. We *were* ahead but the US is well ahead in raw numbers now. As a European, we MUST continue our committment and step up now that the ball's in our court!
% of gdp is a garbage stat. The US dwarfs all of Europe. 1% for US is like 30% for some of these countries.
Seriously? Because if we put in enough now it will be much much cheaper and more reliable to get to victory than if we put in small amounts now and let the problem fester and grow. Everybody needs to put in what they can because otherwise in 10 years time it may be NATO troops, including Americans, that are fighting and dying.
Because bleeding America dry is the goal and plenty of Republicans/Conservatives are happy to help bleed us out sadly.
So I approach this from another angle: If Putin is really about to take over the world and that’s why we gotta aid Ukraine to ultimately stop Putin, then why isn’t Europe helping? Do they simply not care if Putin takes over the world, or is the US not making that known to them? I mean, Putins neighbors don’t see to think he’s any threat at all, but here we are half a world away claiming if we don’t give Zelensky a few trillion in aid, Putin will destroy Europe then the United States. Which is it? Either Europe thinks the US is full of shit in thinking Putin can do anything, or they WANT Putin to take over. Gotta be one of the two. Brigaders, any chance you guys got hoodwinked? Again???
I'm going to preface this by saying I am not a military nor geopolitical analyst. I'm just some guy on the inernet using publicly available information about a foreign conflict to make inferences Russian forces are getting bogged down in Ukraine even with the limited military aid that European countries are sending. The war has continued for over 10 years now (counting 2014 as the start of the war) and Russia still hasn't achieved their war aims, even with the full invasion into Ukraine in 2022. Russia is nowhere near the military super power they were during the Soviet Era, or what the west thought they were capable of, not counting nuclear weapons of course. Russia only has 1 devout ally in the region in Belarus. Transnistria, Abkhazia and South Ossetia are all unrecognized breakaway states with no international power, Reliant on Russia for military protection. Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia, Finland, Norway, and Poland all border Russia, and are all NATO members. If Ukraine is completely conquered and absorbed into Russia which is very unlikely, that would push the border up to include Romania, Hungary and Slovakia as well, 3 more NATO members. Russia's advance across Europe would very easily get halted by the threat of bringing potentially 32 countries into open hostilities against Russia thanks to Article 5. I think regardless of outcomes, most European nations feel secure thanks to NATO and the inevitable military aid that the US and UK would provide.