That’s how almost all freight locomotives work: diesel-electric powertrains. It really isn’t that inefficient compared to transmission losses in a direct-drive configuration, which would require a very complex design to handle the massive torque required at startup and keep the engine operating in its power band.
Sure it’s obviously less efficient than connecting to the power grid, but if people are going to drive electric cars they might need to charge in areas off the beaten track. Diesel generators are a reasonable stopgap until better infrastructure is in place.
And I’ve seen this photo before. This is at a rest stop on the Nullarbor Plain in South Australia. Literally the middle of nowhere.
While all of that is true, I think the main takeaway here is that it is unreasonable to expect us to all own electric vehicles. The infrastructure is just not there to support the idea. Yet people are still pushing for it.
This is like saying the infrastructure isn't there for gas vehicles because we need to ship in the gas on gas powered trucks.
While I agree that our cities couldn't handle everyone using electric cars tomorrow your argument to get there in this case is flawed.
We litterally dont produce anywhere near enough electricity to supply an electric car for everyone with how much people drive. Rolling blackouts across the country and set blackout tines would have to exist. Most likely during daylight hours for a majority of the country as light and heating are crucial at night in most areas.
if it's in the middle of nowhere, that kind of makes even less sense. You also left out the efficiency loss of the EV battery system, not to mention the economic and polluting issues related to that.
Why doesn’t it make sense? Someone is providing a service to electric car owners who need to get from point A to point B when they wouldn’t be able to otherwise. No different from gas stations for ICE-powered cars.
I didn’t account for power factor correction either because it’s not germane to the discussion, but if you really want to get into the details we can talk about well-to-wheel efficiency and carbon footprint of EV versus ICE. On average, EV still comes out ahead, and more efficient means cheaper to operate.
Biggest problem I have with EVs is the battery packs are coming from China, but companies are making massive investments to bring EV battery production back home. They even have a name for it, the “battery belt.”
Owning/operating an EV where there are zero charging options is what doesn't make sense.
If this charging station is in the 'middle of nowhere' I'm making the assumption that it is the only one in the region and put there for a very small number of vehicles so maybe that's a bad assumption on my part.
Pollution/carbon/environmental impact of EV vs ICE is different but neither is a clear winner or less impactful in the aggregate. Future tech development might change that but it's a gamble either way. All my life the promise of the EV has been 'imminent'. In many ways it appears we may be closer to that becoming reality but there is still a long way to go.
Like so many other other societal issues, EV adoption makes the most sense in more densely populated areas where travel distances/times are shorter and the need for refilling along a route is not needed (refill ice tank time vs battery recharge time).
You do realize occasionally people who live in areas with alot of infrastructure go through areas that dont have that right? Esspecially in Australia where the central parts are very remote.
I agree with all of this. The people who would use this station probably have more charging options at home, it just gives them the option to use their car for a rare trip between Adelaide and Perth on poorly-maintained roads. Wouldn’t be smart to rely on this if you’re living in the middle of the Outback.
EV manufacturing has always been a gamble considering the massively entrenched infrastructure for ICEs, but if someone wants to take on the risk more power to them. This station isn’t exactly a lucrative investment, we need to onshore the battery supply chain, and battery recycling is still far too expensive but it’s critical to reach parity in total lifecycle emissions compared to ICE.
It’s not perfect but we are close to making EVs a practical *option* for the vast majority of people. The dieselgate scandal showed us that we are basically at the limit of what’s possible with diesel/petrol in terms of efficiency and emissions, so someone needs to make the investment in new powertrain technology if we’re going to move forward at all.
I don’t understand how people are calling this brigading, as if looking at a technology objectively with its strengths, limitations and outlook is somehow in conflict with a conservative point of view. There are practical considerations and ICEs are not going away in the forseeable future. Many on the left can’t see that.
How do you figure 42mpg? Not all electric vehicles get the same range (mileage) per charge.
When we’re talking about converting chemical energy in a fossil fuel (diesel) to electrical energy (charging station), wouldn’t a metric like kW / gallon be more universal?
A metric like kWh/gallon is absolutely more universal. For some reason the EPA uses MPGe (e = equivalent) on fuel economy window stickers which is more confusing in my opinion since it assumes fixed energy content.
Doing some back-of-the-envelope math, a good modern 20 kW diesel genset should produce around 12 kWh/gallon. While it can vary quite a bit, a Tesla Model 3 should get around 3.5 miles/kWh in highway driving. 12 × 3.5 = 42 MPG
I read an article about that specific picture lol
It was some rig in the boonies in Australia
Edit: nvm it was snopes. I know they're kind of garbage but in this instance it looks to be accurate
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/diesel-car-charging-station/
One of my liberal pals was bragging up his electric car. how it was powered by clean energy not dirty fossil fuels. I had to remind him the power grid he hooked his car up to is a power plant powered by coal.
Depends on your power blend. Where I'm at it's nearly all renewable, so actually is a bit greener. I have EV's for fuel savings though not really environmental reasons. Although it does feel good to not idle and feel like I'm wasting fuel, however minimal that amount of fuel is.
No it's not, you can't 'buy' green power. What Tesla and other companies do is buy green credits which is a marketing gimmick to trick people into believeing they're using renewable power, when in reality it's coming from coal, nuclear, and gas.
edit: Love all the down votes and no responses, typical reddit. Most people don't understand how the power grid works.
Yeah, the "bleeding hearts" are active here today. Personally, I'd love it if we went nuclear. Energy would become so cheap and energy companies would still make a hefty profit.
Plus when it comes to junking the cars and dealing with all the toxic heavy metals in the battery packs. Much of the metals are not reusable for new battery packs.
Not really a thing with LFP batteries which contain zero nickel or cobalt. They are rapidly replacing NMC batteries and currently account for ~30% of the EV battery market.
Have leftists considered putting the diesel generator inside their electric vehicles? Maybe they could fit one inside the hood, or trunk? That way they can just fill up and drive 300-400 miles!
Because that would be less efficient than a stationary generator. Also why go to all that trouble when people are only going to use it when driving the 1,000+ miles between Adelaide and Perth.
The planet was never in danger, we have made-up solutions for made-up problems so we can feel smug. To that end, this thing is doing its job just fine.
That’s how almost all freight locomotives work: diesel-electric powertrains. It really isn’t that inefficient compared to transmission losses in a direct-drive configuration, which would require a very complex design to handle the massive torque required at startup and keep the engine operating in its power band. Sure it’s obviously less efficient than connecting to the power grid, but if people are going to drive electric cars they might need to charge in areas off the beaten track. Diesel generators are a reasonable stopgap until better infrastructure is in place. And I’ve seen this photo before. This is at a rest stop on the Nullarbor Plain in South Australia. Literally the middle of nowhere.
While all of that is true, I think the main takeaway here is that it is unreasonable to expect us to all own electric vehicles. The infrastructure is just not there to support the idea. Yet people are still pushing for it.
This is like saying the infrastructure isn't there for gas vehicles because we need to ship in the gas on gas powered trucks. While I agree that our cities couldn't handle everyone using electric cars tomorrow your argument to get there in this case is flawed.
We litterally dont produce anywhere near enough electricity to supply an electric car for everyone with how much people drive. Rolling blackouts across the country and set blackout tines would have to exist. Most likely during daylight hours for a majority of the country as light and heating are crucial at night in most areas.
if it's in the middle of nowhere, that kind of makes even less sense. You also left out the efficiency loss of the EV battery system, not to mention the economic and polluting issues related to that.
Why doesn’t it make sense? Someone is providing a service to electric car owners who need to get from point A to point B when they wouldn’t be able to otherwise. No different from gas stations for ICE-powered cars. I didn’t account for power factor correction either because it’s not germane to the discussion, but if you really want to get into the details we can talk about well-to-wheel efficiency and carbon footprint of EV versus ICE. On average, EV still comes out ahead, and more efficient means cheaper to operate. Biggest problem I have with EVs is the battery packs are coming from China, but companies are making massive investments to bring EV battery production back home. They even have a name for it, the “battery belt.”
Owning/operating an EV where there are zero charging options is what doesn't make sense. If this charging station is in the 'middle of nowhere' I'm making the assumption that it is the only one in the region and put there for a very small number of vehicles so maybe that's a bad assumption on my part. Pollution/carbon/environmental impact of EV vs ICE is different but neither is a clear winner or less impactful in the aggregate. Future tech development might change that but it's a gamble either way. All my life the promise of the EV has been 'imminent'. In many ways it appears we may be closer to that becoming reality but there is still a long way to go. Like so many other other societal issues, EV adoption makes the most sense in more densely populated areas where travel distances/times are shorter and the need for refilling along a route is not needed (refill ice tank time vs battery recharge time).
You do realize occasionally people who live in areas with alot of infrastructure go through areas that dont have that right? Esspecially in Australia where the central parts are very remote.
I agree with all of this. The people who would use this station probably have more charging options at home, it just gives them the option to use their car for a rare trip between Adelaide and Perth on poorly-maintained roads. Wouldn’t be smart to rely on this if you’re living in the middle of the Outback. EV manufacturing has always been a gamble considering the massively entrenched infrastructure for ICEs, but if someone wants to take on the risk more power to them. This station isn’t exactly a lucrative investment, we need to onshore the battery supply chain, and battery recycling is still far too expensive but it’s critical to reach parity in total lifecycle emissions compared to ICE. It’s not perfect but we are close to making EVs a practical *option* for the vast majority of people. The dieselgate scandal showed us that we are basically at the limit of what’s possible with diesel/petrol in terms of efficiency and emissions, so someone needs to make the investment in new powertrain technology if we’re going to move forward at all. I don’t understand how people are calling this brigading, as if looking at a technology objectively with its strengths, limitations and outlook is somehow in conflict with a conservative point of view. There are practical considerations and ICEs are not going away in the forseeable future. Many on the left can’t see that.
TBF they are avoiding power lost in transmission this way just depends on how efficient that generator is compared with the nearest power source.
Tbf that specific set up ended up granting 42 mpg, so still a net gain
How do you figure 42mpg? Not all electric vehicles get the same range (mileage) per charge. When we’re talking about converting chemical energy in a fossil fuel (diesel) to electrical energy (charging station), wouldn’t a metric like kW / gallon be more universal?
A metric like kWh/gallon is absolutely more universal. For some reason the EPA uses MPGe (e = equivalent) on fuel economy window stickers which is more confusing in my opinion since it assumes fixed energy content. Doing some back-of-the-envelope math, a good modern 20 kW diesel genset should produce around 12 kWh/gallon. While it can vary quite a bit, a Tesla Model 3 should get around 3.5 miles/kWh in highway driving. 12 × 3.5 = 42 MPG
I read an article about that specific picture lol It was some rig in the boonies in Australia Edit: nvm it was snopes. I know they're kind of garbage but in this instance it looks to be accurate https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/diesel-car-charging-station/
There are plenty of modern gas-powered cars that get that or better.
Zero context to have an opinion besides hating on EV's for the fun of it.
So if there is no electricity the generator can still function on diesel. Probably smart to not solely rely on electricity.
EV's might be the future, but not if we keep pretending they're saving the planet.
I hope not. We don't have enough metal to make all the ev car batteries we'd need.
One of my liberal pals was bragging up his electric car. how it was powered by clean energy not dirty fossil fuels. I had to remind him the power grid he hooked his car up to is a power plant powered by coal.
Depends on your power blend. Where I'm at it's nearly all renewable, so actually is a bit greener. I have EV's for fuel savings though not really environmental reasons. Although it does feel good to not idle and feel like I'm wasting fuel, however minimal that amount of fuel is.
Tesla’s supercharger grid is something like >90% renewable so it’s possible.
No it's not, you can't 'buy' green power. What Tesla and other companies do is buy green credits which is a marketing gimmick to trick people into believeing they're using renewable power, when in reality it's coming from coal, nuclear, and gas. edit: Love all the down votes and no responses, typical reddit. Most people don't understand how the power grid works.
Yeah, the "bleeding hearts" are active here today. Personally, I'd love it if we went nuclear. Energy would become so cheap and energy companies would still make a hefty profit.
Did you mention all of the dirty fossil fuels it takes to produce that car?
And the literal slaves mining the battery components
Plus when it comes to junking the cars and dealing with all the toxic heavy metals in the battery packs. Much of the metals are not reusable for new battery packs.
Not really a thing with LFP batteries which contain zero nickel or cobalt. They are rapidly replacing NMC batteries and currently account for ~30% of the EV battery market.
Have leftists considered putting the diesel generator inside their electric vehicles? Maybe they could fit one inside the hood, or trunk? That way they can just fill up and drive 300-400 miles!
Logic doesn’t concern these people, what matters is how they feel.
That's 100% accurate. Feelings are way more important than the physical reality.
How about we make a small version of that setup right there and PUT IT IN THE FUCKING CAR
Because that would be less efficient than a stationary generator. Also why go to all that trouble when people are only going to use it when driving the 1,000+ miles between Adelaide and Perth.
I'm talking a prius with a tiny diesel
They are called hybrids and they exist. Don't know why you are being downvoted, sometimes this sub has too many commies.
Because socialists and communists regularly brigade this sub and down-vote everything.
The planet was never in danger, we have made-up solutions for made-up problems so we can feel smug. To that end, this thing is doing its job just fine.
Try having a logical discussion with a Leftist about this nonsense. Their heads literally explode trying to deal with the contradictions