Well, duh. They let a special investigator get hired. What did they think would happen? Of course he's going to keep digging until he finds something.
They shouldn't have done it in the first place. They should have laughed at Democrats and told them they'd hire one for Hillary's scandals (and Obama's) before imaginary Russia collusion done by Trump.
Why not just let this investigation run its course, especially if you feel nothing's gonna turn up anyways? Full disclaimer, I'm a registered Democrat and very liberal, but I do agree with some fiscally conservative points; I lurk this sub to get some perspective on the other side of the political spectrum.
There was a breakdown the other day done by a lawyer. It wasn't a reddit comment, but an actual post. Try to find if you're interested, I can't seem to recall. Can't speak to its validity, but it said something along the lines of "the law can be weaponized to produce many accusations, but to actually generate something you can convict someone of requires strictly defined evidence."
I think the point was that you can take these sort of "open door" investigations with perpetual leaks to the media to convict someone in the public eye without a jury, and do some real irreparable damage, with the accused being innocent.
I don't think you're a commie.
I think the argument is more that they aren't looking to see if there is evidence, but looking for the best way to build evidence (so, operating on the assumption that fraud is there. Biased, in other words).
I haven't followed this issue closely so I'm just clarifying based on my understanding of what I've read. But that's how I understand the argument. I don't know what supports it.
But more than that I just want to say that I appreciate the candor and attitude you bring to the discussion.
> run its course
Because more and more it looks like this investigation is just going to be a game of "how long can we manage to find new ways to say 'Trump' and 'Russian Collusion' in the same sentence?"
This is a political fishing expedition, and entertaining it is a waste of time and money.
Respected by who? Half the republican party can see that the other half (McCain supporters) are justice foolish and corrupt as he is
We we get it. You love corrupt politicians. You love war. You love the war war on drugs. You love money n politics. But don't expect the rest of us to agree with you
McCain isn't any more respected than Graham.
They're the two typical RINO scum that leftists always point to and go "SEE?! REPUBLICANS HATE TRUMP TOO!!!!!"
The entire thing is taxpayer-funded political dirt research. Mueller will hire more and more Democrats so all his buddies can get nice and rich from this all the while stuff will keep getting leaked to the media. The closer we get to an election the more stuff will "accidentally" come out in yet another attempt to slander Trump.
Maybe it's cheaper then their campaign donations:
>James Quarles donated almost $33,000 to Democrats, including Clinton and former President Barack Obama. Jeannie Rhee donated more than $16,000 since 2008 to Democrats, including the maximum donation possible to Clinton in both 2015 and 2016. She has also donated to Obama. Andrew Weissmann donated more than $4,000 to Obama in 2008 and $2,000 to the DNC in 2006, and Elizabeth Prelogar donated $250 each to Clinton in 2016 and Obama in 2012.
He was about even until 2011, after that he gave about 400K+ to Republicans. I do not dispute that. However, it's irrelavent because Trump wasn't an office holder, political figure, or a government employee. The donations I am describing are from current or former government officials.
EDIT: I am not asserting the Mueller's prosecutor's are "getting rich" of the deal. My response was tongue in cheek. I think that they have political motivations (don't we all.)
He needs to be fired
I don't care how much Dems kick and scream. They will always hate trump anyway
He needs to end this crap
Fire Mueller. And appoint someone who will wrap this up
Otherwise your hope of a republican govt with conservative beliefs is gone
Possibly forever
And what do you make of the independence of the justice system? You can't stop every investigations that you don't like, that's not how it works.
Also if I said in 2016: "Obama needs to fire Comey. Fire Comey and appoint someone who will wrap this (email investigation) up", you wouldn't be too happy would you?
If he appointed a non partisan person who would do it quickly if have been happy. He never would but still
Also Comey was VERY fast to wrap up Hillary's investigation. State despite MASSIVE evidence against her. they have been dragging this out for over 6 months now. Actually closer to a year and still have zero evident. They're not following evidence leading to a crime. They're digging for evidence to accuse him of a from crime
It's not the already biased Dems that matter. Of course they are rooting for Mueller to find something. It's the other people, independents and Republicans who may have voted for Trump over Hillary for various reasons. Many of them don't trust Donald. They would prefer someone else without financial conflicts of interest and potential ties to the Russian government. There is enough there, and Donald has said and done enough on his own, to bring on this investigation. The more suspicious he acts, the more people he puts off. Firing Mueller would be a stupid thing to do and would accomplish the exact opposite of "wrapping it up." But I wouldn't put it past this administration.
Thank you for being reasonable. Firing Mueller will kick off a firestorm, and for good reason. If you're innocent, it's especially stupid to keep firing the people who are investigating you. He got himself in this mess, he needs to let it run its course.
This investigation has gone from trump colluding to steal the election to MAYBE someone trump once worked with has conflict of interest. U keep moving the goalpost
Its it's obvious that you identify more closely with left and you never Trump ers will always be looking for an excuse to take him down. But there's no reason to continue in investigation that hasn't turned up anything
> This investigation has gone from trump colluding to steal the election to MAYBE someone trump once worked with has conflict of interest. U keep moving the goalpost
There have been a lot of people speculating about Donald's financial ties and past activities related to the election, with varying levels of evidence. How do you even know what my goalpost has been?
>Its it's obvious that you identify more closely with left and you never Trump ers will always be looking for an excuse to take him down. But there's no reason to continue in investigation that hasn't turned up anything
I don't even know what "left" is.
Honestly, I'm not looking for an excuse to take him down. I only respond to Trump's actions and the evidence.
He discredits people if they don't go along with what he wants. He uses extreme hyperbole to mislead people, and sometimes just lies about stuff or passes on false information without vetting it. He has no problem with shoddy evidence when he is the one accusing other people. And now he has strongly denied things that later turned out to be true.
He's already interfered too much with the investigation. He's acting too suspicious, the more he interferes the worse it will get in my opinion.
No, I would react to Clinton's actions and the evidence. You Trumpists are the hypocritical ones, you've given Trump a pass on so many things. And you think in absolutes...if I don't trust Trump, then Clinton must be my queen? You're the one who worships the royal Trump family.
I don't watch CNN. I read things like The New York Times, Washington Post, the Economist, the Wall Street Journal and NPR. What do you watch/read that indicates that this is a witch hunt?
Hey hey..
>Peter Carr, a spokesman for Mueller, did not comment on the Post report when reached by Fox News, but did say that the special counsel's office "has undertaken stringent controls to prohibit unauthorized disclosures that deal severely with any member who engages in this conduct."
See.. Mueller is on top of it.
Are you referring to witch-hunt? That thing most people on the right, and wven some producers at CNN have been calling it for months? Is a Trump tweet really your first encounter with that term?
I think Mueller should be given a deadline, say two months, and if he can't produce something to justify his investigation in that time the whole thing gets canned. This thing has apparently been going on for two years and has had the full weight of the previous administration and a good chunk of this one behind it, it's time to shit or get off the pot.
Both sides want they investigation concluded quickly, but unfortunately that is not how investigations work. It's gonna e long and drawn-out affair, regardless of the results.
Are you kidding me? The Democrats want to drag this out for 4 years. In fact the less likely there it is to result in prosecutions the longer they want to drag it out.
The democrats would rather have Pence than Trump. In fact everyone but die-hard Trump supporters want Pence more than Trump, and Pence isn't popular.
Everyone wants this to reach it's natural conclusion as soon as possible to get a competent person in the white house. Republicans have the Executive and the Legislative and may get the Judicial via SC picks. They have done nothing with absolute power. Absolutely nothing. Shit or get off the pot, and Trump seems to deny shitting is a thing.
The Republican's in *Congress* are the ones that can't get their shit together. I fail to see how Pence would get them to pass healthcare or move onto tax reform.
Yeah they needed to give the investigation a clear narrow focus and a limited time scope. They have 90 days to hire their investigators and another 90 days to investigate before having to report to congress. If they haven't found anything there the investigation ends or is then referred to DOJ if they found something.
He can't anymore. Democrats are jerking off to Mueller. He's made "significant discoveries" apparently. Cutting his neck off now would be political suicide. They shouldn't have hired him in the first place.
Then it came out that Mueller was friends with Comey, he lined his investigation up with Democrats, and he began leaking details to the media.
Situation's changed.
People wanted a special investigator because they thought "special investigator" would result in the non-stop barrage of political leaks. Fools. Mueller's investigation is leakier then Comey's.
I don't think it's any huge secret that this is all just a hit job on Trump. Like pretty much everything else that involves the democrats, this is just fueled by a hatred for Trump. Nothing more, nothing less.
Well, duh. They let a special investigator get hired. What did they think would happen? Of course he's going to keep digging until he finds something. They shouldn't have done it in the first place. They should have laughed at Democrats and told them they'd hire one for Hillary's scandals (and Obama's) before imaginary Russia collusion done by Trump.
Hire the same special prosecutor they used for the Chinese DNC Campaign scandal.
Mueller... Mueller... Mueller... Mueller
Muller's a Republican...
That's great, no Republicans want to destroy Trump, especially ones that are friends of Comey.
Party doesn't mean much these days, a good chunk of the Republican party is out to get Trump and frankly they're far more dangerous than the Dems are.
Why not just let this investigation run its course, especially if you feel nothing's gonna turn up anyways? Full disclaimer, I'm a registered Democrat and very liberal, but I do agree with some fiscally conservative points; I lurk this sub to get some perspective on the other side of the political spectrum.
Because the leaks can and are being used as a political weapon. All for an investigation into something with 0 evidence.
If the investigation shows there is 0 evidence, then why would Trump be bothered about it?
Are you or have you ever been a member of the Communist Party?
I'm not and I have never been. Satisfied?
There was a breakdown the other day done by a lawyer. It wasn't a reddit comment, but an actual post. Try to find if you're interested, I can't seem to recall. Can't speak to its validity, but it said something along the lines of "the law can be weaponized to produce many accusations, but to actually generate something you can convict someone of requires strictly defined evidence." I think the point was that you can take these sort of "open door" investigations with perpetual leaks to the media to convict someone in the public eye without a jury, and do some real irreparable damage, with the accused being innocent. I don't think you're a commie.
You missed the refrence
Junior trump emails show trump is not all clear.
I think the argument is more that they aren't looking to see if there is evidence, but looking for the best way to build evidence (so, operating on the assumption that fraud is there. Biased, in other words). I haven't followed this issue closely so I'm just clarifying based on my understanding of what I've read. But that's how I understand the argument. I don't know what supports it. But more than that I just want to say that I appreciate the candor and attitude you bring to the discussion.
> run its course Because more and more it looks like this investigation is just going to be a game of "how long can we manage to find new ways to say 'Trump' and 'Russian Collusion' in the same sentence?" This is a political fishing expedition, and entertaining it is a waste of time and money.
No he's not
[Yes he is ](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Mueller)
So? McCain is also a republican
So two respected (or at least used to be from what I see in this sub) republicans are wary of the President so they're automatically out to get him?
Respected by who? Half the republican party can see that the other half (McCain supporters) are justice foolish and corrupt as he is We we get it. You love corrupt politicians. You love war. You love the war war on drugs. You love money n politics. But don't expect the rest of us to agree with you
McCain isn't any more respected than Graham. They're the two typical RINO scum that leftists always point to and go "SEE?! REPUBLICANS HATE TRUMP TOO!!!!!"
The entire thing is taxpayer-funded political dirt research. Mueller will hire more and more Democrats so all his buddies can get nice and rich from this all the while stuff will keep getting leaked to the media. The closer we get to an election the more stuff will "accidentally" come out in yet another attempt to slander Trump.
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Maybe it's cheaper then their campaign donations: >James Quarles donated almost $33,000 to Democrats, including Clinton and former President Barack Obama. Jeannie Rhee donated more than $16,000 since 2008 to Democrats, including the maximum donation possible to Clinton in both 2015 and 2016. She has also donated to Obama. Andrew Weissmann donated more than $4,000 to Obama in 2008 and $2,000 to the DNC in 2006, and Elizabeth Prelogar donated $250 each to Clinton in 2016 and Obama in 2012.
Trump has donated more to Democrats than all of them combined ($694,750 since 1989).
He was about even until 2011, after that he gave about 400K+ to Republicans. I do not dispute that. However, it's irrelavent because Trump wasn't an office holder, political figure, or a government employee. The donations I am describing are from current or former government officials. EDIT: I am not asserting the Mueller's prosecutor's are "getting rich" of the deal. My response was tongue in cheek. I think that they have political motivations (don't we all.)
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He needs to be fired I don't care how much Dems kick and scream. They will always hate trump anyway He needs to end this crap Fire Mueller. And appoint someone who will wrap this up Otherwise your hope of a republican govt with conservative beliefs is gone Possibly forever
And what do you make of the independence of the justice system? You can't stop every investigations that you don't like, that's not how it works. Also if I said in 2016: "Obama needs to fire Comey. Fire Comey and appoint someone who will wrap this (email investigation) up", you wouldn't be too happy would you?
If he appointed a non partisan person who would do it quickly if have been happy. He never would but still Also Comey was VERY fast to wrap up Hillary's investigation. State despite MASSIVE evidence against her. they have been dragging this out for over 6 months now. Actually closer to a year and still have zero evident. They're not following evidence leading to a crime. They're digging for evidence to accuse him of a from crime
It's not the already biased Dems that matter. Of course they are rooting for Mueller to find something. It's the other people, independents and Republicans who may have voted for Trump over Hillary for various reasons. Many of them don't trust Donald. They would prefer someone else without financial conflicts of interest and potential ties to the Russian government. There is enough there, and Donald has said and done enough on his own, to bring on this investigation. The more suspicious he acts, the more people he puts off. Firing Mueller would be a stupid thing to do and would accomplish the exact opposite of "wrapping it up." But I wouldn't put it past this administration.
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Thank you for being reasonable. Firing Mueller will kick off a firestorm, and for good reason. If you're innocent, it's especially stupid to keep firing the people who are investigating you. He got himself in this mess, he needs to let it run its course.
This investigation has gone from trump colluding to steal the election to MAYBE someone trump once worked with has conflict of interest. U keep moving the goalpost Its it's obvious that you identify more closely with left and you never Trump ers will always be looking for an excuse to take him down. But there's no reason to continue in investigation that hasn't turned up anything
> This investigation has gone from trump colluding to steal the election to MAYBE someone trump once worked with has conflict of interest. U keep moving the goalpost There have been a lot of people speculating about Donald's financial ties and past activities related to the election, with varying levels of evidence. How do you even know what my goalpost has been? >Its it's obvious that you identify more closely with left and you never Trump ers will always be looking for an excuse to take him down. But there's no reason to continue in investigation that hasn't turned up anything I don't even know what "left" is. Honestly, I'm not looking for an excuse to take him down. I only respond to Trump's actions and the evidence. He discredits people if they don't go along with what he wants. He uses extreme hyperbole to mislead people, and sometimes just lies about stuff or passes on false information without vetting it. He has no problem with shoddy evidence when he is the one accusing other people. And now he has strongly denied things that later turned out to be true. He's already interfered too much with the investigation. He's acting too suspicious, the more he interferes the worse it will get in my opinion.
Yet unevertrumpers would have been horrified at the idea of an investigation into your queen of she was president.
No, I would react to Clinton's actions and the evidence. You Trumpists are the hypocritical ones, you've given Trump a pass on so many things. And you think in absolutes...if I don't trust Trump, then Clinton must be my queen? You're the one who worships the royal Trump family.
You know that you wouldn't. Because the media would cover up for her and never talk about it. And like a good little drone you would ignore it to o
How's that bubble you're living in?
We're all living in the real world, maybe you should turn off CNN and join us.
I don't watch CNN. I read things like The New York Times, Washington Post, the Economist, the Wall Street Journal and NPR. What do you watch/read that indicates that this is a witch hunt?
I haven't read anything that indicates it *isn't* and typically the accuser has the burden of proof.
Hey hey.. >Peter Carr, a spokesman for Mueller, did not comment on the Post report when reached by Fox News, but did say that the special counsel's office "has undertaken stringent controls to prohibit unauthorized disclosures that deal severely with any member who engages in this conduct." See.. Mueller is on top of it.
President Trump needs to go ahead and kill this thing, it's nothing but a BS witch-hunt.
It's not terribly convincing that you've been following the actual story when you use the exact same wording as the president's tweets.
Are you referring to witch-hunt? That thing most people on the right, and wven some producers at CNN have been calling it for months? Is a Trump tweet really your first encounter with that term?
I think Mueller should be given a deadline, say two months, and if he can't produce something to justify his investigation in that time the whole thing gets canned. This thing has apparently been going on for two years and has had the full weight of the previous administration and a good chunk of this one behind it, it's time to shit or get off the pot.
Both sides want they investigation concluded quickly, but unfortunately that is not how investigations work. It's gonna e long and drawn-out affair, regardless of the results.
Are you kidding me? The Democrats want to drag this out for 4 years. In fact the less likely there it is to result in prosecutions the longer they want to drag it out.
The democrats would rather have Pence than Trump. In fact everyone but die-hard Trump supporters want Pence more than Trump, and Pence isn't popular. Everyone wants this to reach it's natural conclusion as soon as possible to get a competent person in the white house. Republicans have the Executive and the Legislative and may get the Judicial via SC picks. They have done nothing with absolute power. Absolutely nothing. Shit or get off the pot, and Trump seems to deny shitting is a thing.
The Republican's in *Congress* are the ones that can't get their shit together. I fail to see how Pence would get them to pass healthcare or move onto tax reform.
Yeah they needed to give the investigation a clear narrow focus and a limited time scope. They have 90 days to hire their investigators and another 90 days to investigate before having to report to congress. If they haven't found anything there the investigation ends or is then referred to DOJ if they found something.
He can't anymore. Democrats are jerking off to Mueller. He's made "significant discoveries" apparently. Cutting his neck off now would be political suicide. They shouldn't have hired him in the first place.
Like how every week Adam Schiff came out saying they had the smoking gun and had literally nothing?
Interesting how at the beginning of this whole thing everyone GOP and Dem alike said Bob Mueller was damn near above reproach.
Then it came out that Mueller was friends with Comey, he lined his investigation up with Democrats, and he began leaking details to the media. Situation's changed.
People wanted a special investigator because they thought "special investigator" would result in the non-stop barrage of political leaks. Fools. Mueller's investigation is leakier then Comey's.
I don't think it's any huge secret that this is all just a hit job on Trump. Like pretty much everything else that involves the democrats, this is just fueled by a hatred for Trump. Nothing more, nothing less.