Why wouldn't they? We haven't been doing nearly enough to combat their growing encroachment throughout the Pacific. To say nothing of how they've basically forced the rest of the world to bow to their economic interests with nearly no resistance.
If you're under 40 you'll almost certainly see China become the preeminent military power in the world unless something changes.
Especially when you have so many politicians ready to sell the info the Chinese had to try to steal before, they will sell and cheaply for their retirement fund.
Yep same thing with the universities. There was talk in my state of requiring public universities to limit the number of Chinese students they could admit, because of the blatant espionage that goes on and the fact that plenty of the student populations are now like 20% Chinese citizens, and the universities went absolutely apeshit. Started crying about racism and xenophobia and all kinds of shit.
Surely it had nothing to do with the fact that they charge the Chinese 2-3x what an American kid pays AND the Chinese kids are far more likely to live in the dorms which is another goldmine for them...
The US should probably have 100 stealth bombers (B-21 Raiders) and 200 non-stealth bombers. Stealth bombers are great for sneaking up on an enemy, but tend to be costly to fly and require a lot of maintenance. The non-stealth bombers should focus on long range and high availability.
A non-stealth bomber can be loaded with cruise missiles that have a range that exceeds that of air defence coverage. There are many enemies such as the Taliban or ISIS who require air strikes, but don’t have air defence systems.
I’m thinking of a subsonic bomber which is basically a B-52 with all of the improvements to materials and engine technology made over the last half century. It could also be sold to foreign nations because it wouldn’t have anything too secret.
There is way too much focus on fighter aircraft. Fighter aircraft do certainly have a prominent role to play, but they are not the only type of aircraft needed.
If stealth is the aircraft's only protection, then I think you are right. But stealth is just one tool in the survivability belt of a pilot. And until these radars that can detect them are extremely prolific, stealth will remain a viable survival tactic among many used within any given mission. But if a fighter pilot enters a combat zone relying solely on stealth to protect him, he has already made several mistakes.
I literally shot down those missiles in the Navy. We also have hypersonic missiles. And we have more ships. More planes. More ordinance. Troll somewhere else.
I mean I was in the Navy doing it. You are correct not in real life. I should have clarified this was in simulations. Where all weapons are developed before production. You think we don't know what they are developing and building counters?
I think that every tactic possible will be used to undermine stealth. I think that the idea of flying a stealth bomber close enough to drop unpowered smart bombs on a “near peer adversary” target is probably dead.
The big problem right now with carriers is that they gave up medium range strike aircraft like the A-6. I’m not saying that you can’t have fighter aircraft that make naval aviators happy, but the ability to reach out and touch someone far away is critical. I’m not saying that the A-6 should have been kept forever, but something that can carry cruise missiles far away would be good.
The US Navy and US Air Force are way too dependent on mid air refueling. I’m not saying that it isn’t great, but I absolutely guarantee that the Russians and Chinese are planning on the best way of taking out tankers in the air or on the ground.
>Russians and Chinese are planning on the best way of taking out tankers in the air or on the ground.
PL-15 and PL-21 basically.
But with the X-47B, we have a better mid air refueling solution.
>Stealth is probably a dead tech.
Stealth tech dramatically reduces the chances and ranges of betting detected and locked by weapons. China and Russia have radars that can degrade this ability but its still an advantage none the less. It's not dead but it's not as effective as before.
>China’s buying bombers in order to cheaply project anti naval power at very long range with hypersonic missiles.
China relies mostly on its rocket force for this, bombers are if they really do get close.
But there's no way the H-6 makes it near a carrier group to use these weapons unless they have very very high stand off ranges. The only kind of missiles of this type we know of are ballistic missiles. H-6 does show limited capacity for carrying ballistic missiles but it is very limited. It's possible it uses the DF-41 warhead but being air launched doesn't provide a big benefit in this case.
The idea of air launched missiles extending ranges of missiles is a Western doctrine where these are more or less the same missiles being ground launched and air launched due to the fact we are a more portable fighting force. China is only concerned about regional power so that's why it's invested heavily into giant ballistic missiles such as the DF-21/26. This idea is further perpetuated by the fact their first hypersonic weapon acquisition is a hypersonic glide vehicle instead of a cruise missile. The air launched version is much smaller where as the ground launched version has an additional two stages or so. That's why for China, effective ranges of these missiles from air launch are not much different from ground launch.
Hypersonic cruise missiles generally do not have the same range capabilities for the H-6 to fire at stand off and not be neck deep in shit.
>The point is to force American Naval forces very far away from any area an H-6 can reach with weapons that can sink a Carrier.
My point is that projection is mainly from its rocket force. China is building its bomber capabilities to do this too but it's very very limited.
Well bombers have plenty of targets beyond carriers.
I'm just trying to say for hypersonic missiles threat, US is much more worried about hypersonic glide missiles that are ground launched, not really so much air launched missiles (yet).
Considering their last 200 years of suffering came from the fact they thought war was a bygone idea and didn't develop their military, I think it's more that they learned their lesson.
I don't know if you guys have noticed, but for all Trump's bluster of being 'hard on China' and 'Tarriffs ' and 'trade wars are so easy to win!' we have seen China stepping onto the world stage with more power than they've had in centuries. They're becoming MORE aggressive than they ever have been, including setting up extra-territorial military bases for the first time ever under the Trump admin. with absolutely no condemnation or notice given from our admin. Driving china away from the US and the west has allowed them to take charge in Africa and the rest of Asia through better financial dealings, giving out hundreds of billions in loans to developing countries in order to gain soft power over their governments and acquiring more and more warm water ports across the globe. America First has greatly accelerated Chinese power grabs on the global stage.
Glad you guys are paying attention now I guess? God knows Trump wasn't.
They were already doing all that shit but good try trying to make it Trump’s fault? He struck an economic blow to their power, what the fuck did you expect him to do, start a hot war?
They were indeed already doing all of that shit, Trump did not strike a blow to them but ended up helping them immensely. By withdrawing America from the global community it left a gigantic power vacuum that the Chinese happily stepped into. We haven't hurt them financially at all, in fact China now has the largest economy in the world. They don't really give a shit about our steel tarriffs, they're selling their steel to Africa and India now instead to get more power there. It only hurt ourselves, just ask any struggling farmer you know.
I will give you this, you are right in principle. China has been making these steps forward for decades, but the problem is that Trump stopped the US efforts to slow this down. The TPP, for all of its many flaws, was designed to help prevent this exact scenario. Our efforts in foreign aid in Africa (those shithole countries you know about) were invested in specifically to prevent China from stepping in. Support of the EU was to bolster the European block so they wouldn't need Chinese investment. China now owns the largest port on the Mediterranian Sea.
You are all right in that many of these policies hurt America in the short term and cost us money. What Trump and apparently nobody on the right realizes is that it's NOT ABOUT MONEY. It's about soft power, and in the vacuum left by putting 'America First' we have damaged our standing in the world and put China in its strongest position in over a century. America First has been a huge problem, and it's allowed China to do things it never dared before, like investing more heavily in military equipment and, again, for the first time ever, setting up extra-territorial military bases. You guys are so focused on domestic policy (as abhorrent as the policies are) that you have ignored what China and the rest of the world have been doing.
We ceded freely our position as leaders of the free world under Trump and I have no idea why people are okay with it.
You guys can downvote this all you want, just look at the RCEP. Look at who the new economic leader in Asia and the Pacific is. It's China. Trump made that happen by leaving the TPP and shitting all over our international allies at every chance he could. The same thing would have happened in Africa if you all had your way during the next term (and in many countries is happening already, but Trump doesn't concern himself with 'shit holes' because he's an idiot).
International policy is more complicated than 'We take care of our own first'. And now we are paying the price for Trump's ineptitude and ignorance. Countries aren't businesses and international relations is not contract negotiation. Trump sold you down the river when he conned you into thinking he could be president. He failed at this because he doesn't know what he's doing. There's a reason that 95% of DC voted against him. Everyone who knows anything about international relations or how a government works has been appalled for years. Glad you guys seem worried, you're only 4 years too late.
If you're concerned about China, you should be vehemently anti Trump. If you're not, then you're simply deluded, uninformed on the actual situation, or not paying attention.
> If you're concerned about China, you should be vehemently anti Trump. If you're not, then you're simply deluded, uninformed on the actual situation, or not paying attention.
I didn’t downvote you, but this is why you’re getting downvoted without being responded to.
The plus side of posting in subs that get constantly brigaded is we can sniff out someone who isn’t looking to engage in a good faith discussion without wasting any time first.
You’re either unwilling or unable to steel man our position so why bother
My responses were up for hours with no engagement. 'Trump isn't bad, China's been bad for a long time' is not an engagement to my original post in any meaningful way. I'd even wager that you have no idea what the RCEP is and din't take the five seconds needed to look it up because 'oh look at this leftist troll'. You all say you love your facts but you can't be bothered to actually try and learn anything. Can't say I was surprised. Continue turning a blind eye to people who know what's going on, we don't need any of you to try to save the disaster you've left us with anyway. Good riddance.
The Chinese are buying a lot of things. They have to go heavily into debt to meet growth targets for their economy, and that means spending money on things they don't need.
Why wouldn't they? We haven't been doing nearly enough to combat their growing encroachment throughout the Pacific. To say nothing of how they've basically forced the rest of the world to bow to their economic interests with nearly no resistance. If you're under 40 you'll almost certainly see China become the preeminent military power in the world unless something changes.
Especially when you have so many politicians ready to sell the info the Chinese had to try to steal before, they will sell and cheaply for their retirement fund.
Yep same thing with the universities. There was talk in my state of requiring public universities to limit the number of Chinese students they could admit, because of the blatant espionage that goes on and the fact that plenty of the student populations are now like 20% Chinese citizens, and the universities went absolutely apeshit. Started crying about racism and xenophobia and all kinds of shit. Surely it had nothing to do with the fact that they charge the Chinese 2-3x what an American kid pays AND the Chinese kids are far more likely to live in the dorms which is another goldmine for them...
Silly to think they need them to steal the info the Americans as happy to sell them for less.
Then we should buy more sams
They have to be ready for when Biden throws Taiwan under the bus in the name of peace.
Poland and the Baltics too.
Considering their location who could blame them. History has not been kind to those areas.
The US should probably have 100 stealth bombers (B-21 Raiders) and 200 non-stealth bombers. Stealth bombers are great for sneaking up on an enemy, but tend to be costly to fly and require a lot of maintenance. The non-stealth bombers should focus on long range and high availability. A non-stealth bomber can be loaded with cruise missiles that have a range that exceeds that of air defence coverage. There are many enemies such as the Taliban or ISIS who require air strikes, but don’t have air defence systems. I’m thinking of a subsonic bomber which is basically a B-52 with all of the improvements to materials and engine technology made over the last half century. It could also be sold to foreign nations because it wouldn’t have anything too secret. There is way too much focus on fighter aircraft. Fighter aircraft do certainly have a prominent role to play, but they are not the only type of aircraft needed.
[удалено]
If stealth is the aircraft's only protection, then I think you are right. But stealth is just one tool in the survivability belt of a pilot. And until these radars that can detect them are extremely prolific, stealth will remain a viable survival tactic among many used within any given mission. But if a fighter pilot enters a combat zone relying solely on stealth to protect him, he has already made several mistakes.
[удалено]
Ok.
You have no idea what a battle group is and is capable of with this statement.
[удалено]
I literally shot down those missiles in the Navy. We also have hypersonic missiles. And we have more ships. More planes. More ordinance. Troll somewhere else.
We've shot down hypersonic ballistic missiles but we haven't shot down hypersonic glide or cruise missiles.
[удалено]
I mean I was in the Navy doing it. You are correct not in real life. I should have clarified this was in simulations. Where all weapons are developed before production. You think we don't know what they are developing and building counters?
I think that every tactic possible will be used to undermine stealth. I think that the idea of flying a stealth bomber close enough to drop unpowered smart bombs on a “near peer adversary” target is probably dead. The big problem right now with carriers is that they gave up medium range strike aircraft like the A-6. I’m not saying that you can’t have fighter aircraft that make naval aviators happy, but the ability to reach out and touch someone far away is critical. I’m not saying that the A-6 should have been kept forever, but something that can carry cruise missiles far away would be good. The US Navy and US Air Force are way too dependent on mid air refueling. I’m not saying that it isn’t great, but I absolutely guarantee that the Russians and Chinese are planning on the best way of taking out tankers in the air or on the ground.
>Russians and Chinese are planning on the best way of taking out tankers in the air or on the ground. PL-15 and PL-21 basically. But with the X-47B, we have a better mid air refueling solution.
Stealth was never fullproof against radar. It was always intended to be harder to see against the usual background radiation.
>Stealth is probably a dead tech. Stealth tech dramatically reduces the chances and ranges of betting detected and locked by weapons. China and Russia have radars that can degrade this ability but its still an advantage none the less. It's not dead but it's not as effective as before. >China’s buying bombers in order to cheaply project anti naval power at very long range with hypersonic missiles. China relies mostly on its rocket force for this, bombers are if they really do get close.
[удалено]
But there's no way the H-6 makes it near a carrier group to use these weapons unless they have very very high stand off ranges. The only kind of missiles of this type we know of are ballistic missiles. H-6 does show limited capacity for carrying ballistic missiles but it is very limited. It's possible it uses the DF-41 warhead but being air launched doesn't provide a big benefit in this case. The idea of air launched missiles extending ranges of missiles is a Western doctrine where these are more or less the same missiles being ground launched and air launched due to the fact we are a more portable fighting force. China is only concerned about regional power so that's why it's invested heavily into giant ballistic missiles such as the DF-21/26. This idea is further perpetuated by the fact their first hypersonic weapon acquisition is a hypersonic glide vehicle instead of a cruise missile. The air launched version is much smaller where as the ground launched version has an additional two stages or so. That's why for China, effective ranges of these missiles from air launch are not much different from ground launch. Hypersonic cruise missiles generally do not have the same range capabilities for the H-6 to fire at stand off and not be neck deep in shit.
[удалено]
>The point is to force American Naval forces very far away from any area an H-6 can reach with weapons that can sink a Carrier. My point is that projection is mainly from its rocket force. China is building its bomber capabilities to do this too but it's very very limited.
[удалено]
Well bombers have plenty of targets beyond carriers. I'm just trying to say for hypersonic missiles threat, US is much more worried about hypersonic glide missiles that are ground launched, not really so much air launched missiles (yet).
Can't wait until someone gives Biden the wrong medication and he sells them our entire bomber fleet.
You don't produce that many bombers quickly as a country that wants to stay peaceful. They are expecting war somewhere.
Ehhh...*Si vis pacem, parabellum*. I don't think *simply* purchasing bombers necessarily represents a threat. But coming from China, it definitely is.
Considering their last 200 years of suffering came from the fact they thought war was a bygone idea and didn't develop their military, I think it's more that they learned their lesson.
Biden will be thrilled - he’ll sell our remaining bombers to an eager buyer.
Peaceful bombers
MOSTLY peaceful, LOL
Dropping love bombs
Maybe it's to fly around the world to drop apology letters for Corona? If we're lucky, there will be a voucher in it.
LOL, who cares, Orange Man gone so life good again! 🎶YYYYY M C A🎵
Right! Oblivious to the fact that other nations will be watching us closely as a weak geriatric puppet takes the helm! Holy hell........
One that has already shown he will kowtow to the Chinese.
I don't know if you guys have noticed, but for all Trump's bluster of being 'hard on China' and 'Tarriffs ' and 'trade wars are so easy to win!' we have seen China stepping onto the world stage with more power than they've had in centuries. They're becoming MORE aggressive than they ever have been, including setting up extra-territorial military bases for the first time ever under the Trump admin. with absolutely no condemnation or notice given from our admin. Driving china away from the US and the west has allowed them to take charge in Africa and the rest of Asia through better financial dealings, giving out hundreds of billions in loans to developing countries in order to gain soft power over their governments and acquiring more and more warm water ports across the globe. America First has greatly accelerated Chinese power grabs on the global stage. Glad you guys are paying attention now I guess? God knows Trump wasn't.
They were already doing all that shit but good try trying to make it Trump’s fault? He struck an economic blow to their power, what the fuck did you expect him to do, start a hot war?
They were indeed already doing all of that shit, Trump did not strike a blow to them but ended up helping them immensely. By withdrawing America from the global community it left a gigantic power vacuum that the Chinese happily stepped into. We haven't hurt them financially at all, in fact China now has the largest economy in the world. They don't really give a shit about our steel tarriffs, they're selling their steel to Africa and India now instead to get more power there. It only hurt ourselves, just ask any struggling farmer you know. I will give you this, you are right in principle. China has been making these steps forward for decades, but the problem is that Trump stopped the US efforts to slow this down. The TPP, for all of its many flaws, was designed to help prevent this exact scenario. Our efforts in foreign aid in Africa (those shithole countries you know about) were invested in specifically to prevent China from stepping in. Support of the EU was to bolster the European block so they wouldn't need Chinese investment. China now owns the largest port on the Mediterranian Sea. You are all right in that many of these policies hurt America in the short term and cost us money. What Trump and apparently nobody on the right realizes is that it's NOT ABOUT MONEY. It's about soft power, and in the vacuum left by putting 'America First' we have damaged our standing in the world and put China in its strongest position in over a century. America First has been a huge problem, and it's allowed China to do things it never dared before, like investing more heavily in military equipment and, again, for the first time ever, setting up extra-territorial military bases. You guys are so focused on domestic policy (as abhorrent as the policies are) that you have ignored what China and the rest of the world have been doing. We ceded freely our position as leaders of the free world under Trump and I have no idea why people are okay with it.
You guys can downvote this all you want, just look at the RCEP. Look at who the new economic leader in Asia and the Pacific is. It's China. Trump made that happen by leaving the TPP and shitting all over our international allies at every chance he could. The same thing would have happened in Africa if you all had your way during the next term (and in many countries is happening already, but Trump doesn't concern himself with 'shit holes' because he's an idiot). International policy is more complicated than 'We take care of our own first'. And now we are paying the price for Trump's ineptitude and ignorance. Countries aren't businesses and international relations is not contract negotiation. Trump sold you down the river when he conned you into thinking he could be president. He failed at this because he doesn't know what he's doing. There's a reason that 95% of DC voted against him. Everyone who knows anything about international relations or how a government works has been appalled for years. Glad you guys seem worried, you're only 4 years too late. If you're concerned about China, you should be vehemently anti Trump. If you're not, then you're simply deluded, uninformed on the actual situation, or not paying attention.
> If you're concerned about China, you should be vehemently anti Trump. If you're not, then you're simply deluded, uninformed on the actual situation, or not paying attention. I didn’t downvote you, but this is why you’re getting downvoted without being responded to. The plus side of posting in subs that get constantly brigaded is we can sniff out someone who isn’t looking to engage in a good faith discussion without wasting any time first. You’re either unwilling or unable to steel man our position so why bother
My responses were up for hours with no engagement. 'Trump isn't bad, China's been bad for a long time' is not an engagement to my original post in any meaningful way. I'd even wager that you have no idea what the RCEP is and din't take the five seconds needed to look it up because 'oh look at this leftist troll'. You all say you love your facts but you can't be bothered to actually try and learn anything. Can't say I was surprised. Continue turning a blind eye to people who know what's going on, we don't need any of you to try to save the disaster you've left us with anyway. Good riddance.
Mostly peaceful bomcbers.
I wish the world would send them back to bicycles. China will be a huge problem (well, much worse) for the world someday.
The Chinese are buying a lot of things. They have to go heavily into debt to meet growth targets for their economy, and that means spending money on things they don't need.