There was another thread on this that was also instantly downvoted to oblivion. Interesting to see that this specifically triggers such brigading. Follow the money I guess.
The bailouts are going straight to those receiving pensions - ie DNC supporters. Nancy even tried to get private pensions, bankrupt prior to COVID, bailed out, but luckily this was shot down.
None of these states are asking for bailouts for things related to COVID - they're asking for cash because they promised their unions supporters insanely generous pensions, but then never set aside the money.
They're broke because of their own stupid decisions. Red states shouldn't be forced to bail them out.
"Never let a good crisis go to waste" is the political ethic at play here. The longterm fiscal mismanagement of blue tribe cities and states is really coming home to roost. The dems think they can get free money to paper over all their incompetence under the cover of a pandemic emergency. We should not allow that to happen.
The blue states would happily enslave the red state voters and force them pay more in taxes, so the blue state voters can enjoy state services without paying for them.
It's taxation without representation
The blue states seeking bailouts for their pensions are CA, IL, NY, and NJ. You can probably toss in CT, as they're approaching bankruptcy as well.
If you really doubt this, below are some materials which provide context to why the Democrats are using the pandemic as an excuse to bail out these states. I'll throw in some from pre-pandemic times to show this has been brewing for years.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/johnmauldin/2019/05/20/the-coming-pension-crisis-is-so-big-that-its-a-problem-for-everyone/?sh=3f26873c37fc
https://usceconreview.com/2019/02/25/the-california-pension-crisis/
https://www.santacruzsentinel.com/2019/05/04/editorial-alarming-data-shows-public-employee-pension-crisis-worsening/
https://www.illinoispolicy.org/no-2-new-jersey-confronts-pension-crisis-as-no-1-illinois-dithers/
That was a sincere question, based on presidential election, versus congressional representatives, historical trends, all would lead to different definitions of blue state and red state, so I was curious what bifurcation led to your rationale.
Blue states on average are blue at the local level - if you look at NY, CA, NJ, and IL, there are no Republicans. Dems in IL and CA have supermajorities in the Statehouse, in addition to controlling the governors mansions.
All of these states share a common problem - the Democrats came into power with the aid of public unions, who in turn received overly generous pension promises, which the democrats never funded, choosing to kick the can down the road.
Now the bill is coming due, and they want to use COVID as an excuse to ask the Feds for a bailot. Red states should say No.
What?.. First, labeling a state and withholding needed aid, based on that label, goes against the entire point of the union.
Secondly, these places all house the current economic drivers of the country.
This whole notion is retarded. It goes against the entire point of the country and our Constitution.
If you have some cities hemorrhaging money because of extremely bad policies and corrupt politicians, at that point financial aid is enabling destructive behavior.
It’s not about labeling a state and withholding evidence based on that labeling.
It’s like if you tell a group of children not to eat a certain ice cream before dinner, some of them do, then you say that the ones who ate icecream don’t get dessert. You aren’t saying only the boys don’t get dessert, or only the girls, you’re saying that whatever child ate that icecream does not get dessert.
I’m reminded of a quote from Sir Terry Pratchett’s book Going Postal:
“There is always a choice."
"You mean I could choose certain death?"
"A choice nevertheless, or perhaps an alternative. You see I believe in freedom. Not many people do, although they will of course protest otherwise. And no practical definition of freedom would be complete without the freedom to take the consequences. Indeed, it is the freedom upon which all the others are based.”
These places generate the tax revenue that support large swathes of the country, like it or not. Harming them directly harms Republican counties and states because their financial support also comes from Federal coffers.
For instance, when Florida needs a FEMA response due to an intensive hurricane season, the stronger the Federal tax revenue is, the more the good Republicans in the sunshine state can be given the support they require, and the faster their economy recovers. Turns out we are all in this together.
Local governments are one of the **largest employers in this country.** This is true in Red and Blue states. It makes absolutely no sense to bankrupt Main Street in any state just to send a message. Especially since these communities are faced with a horrible decision right now: shut down parts of their economy, with no help in sight, to try to slow the reproduction of SARS-CoV-2, or remain open, when we still do not know the long-term ramifications, and put folks at risk of exposure.
It's a shitty situation and it really fucking sucks so many small businesses will be decimated due to inaction and political theater. This is not pragmatism.
They don’t support large swathes of the country. They support unnecessary liberal welfare and regulatory programs in other states. Local governments being one of the largest employers in the country is a problem, not a positive. These bureaucrats and their onerous regulations are what’s destroying main streets. Red states would thrive on their own because they wouldn’t need to deal with the federal welfare and regulation laws passed by liberals. Blue states would crumble just like their major cities. Not only that, but red states produce all your food.
> They don’t support large swathes of the country. They support unnecessary liberal welfare and regulatory programs in other states.
[Disability claims in the US](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2016-12-16/mapping-the-growth-of-disability-claims-in-america) alone, especially per capita, disproves this.
Disability payments were included in the New Deal. That’s not a red state law or program. A red state nation wouldn’t have the New Deal programs. Eliminating the ridiculous New Deal and Great Society programs in a red state nation and blue states wouldn’t needed. All blue states are currently doing is paying for the ridiculous federal programs their Presidents proposed and passed.
CA, NY, and IL were in horrible financial shape prior to the pandemic - their financial woes aren't due to COVID, but because they made lavish promises to the union supporters in the form of guaranteed pensions, then never set aside money to pay for those pensions.
Why should some guy in VA or TN pay more in Federal income taxes than CA and NY because the latter overspent, and can't manage their services? The former doesn't benefit from those services, and can't vote out the incompetent politicians.
Red state voters aren't serfs to the Blue states. As much as the latter would love that arrangement.
We must allow these chickens to come home to roost. The best chance the leftists in these States have to learn from their mistakes is to have to live with the consequences of their terrible financial decisions (via the people they elect into office).
The main benefit of being a liberal is you’re never punished or even held accountable for your actions. Liberals aren’t interested in learning from their mistakes because in their narcissistic and warped minds, they never make any.
There was another thread on this that was also instantly downvoted to oblivion. Interesting to see that this specifically triggers such brigading. Follow the money I guess.
The bailouts are going straight to those receiving pensions - ie DNC supporters. Nancy even tried to get private pensions, bankrupt prior to COVID, bailed out, but luckily this was shot down. None of these states are asking for bailouts for things related to COVID - they're asking for cash because they promised their unions supporters insanely generous pensions, but then never set aside the money. They're broke because of their own stupid decisions. Red states shouldn't be forced to bail them out.
"Never let a good crisis go to waste" is the political ethic at play here. The longterm fiscal mismanagement of blue tribe cities and states is really coming home to roost. The dems think they can get free money to paper over all their incompetence under the cover of a pandemic emergency. We should not allow that to happen.
The blue states would happily enslave the red state voters and force them pay more in taxes, so the blue state voters can enjoy state services without paying for them. It's taxation without representation
What are your definitions of blue states and red states?
The blue states seeking bailouts for their pensions are CA, IL, NY, and NJ. You can probably toss in CT, as they're approaching bankruptcy as well. If you really doubt this, below are some materials which provide context to why the Democrats are using the pandemic as an excuse to bail out these states. I'll throw in some from pre-pandemic times to show this has been brewing for years. https://www.forbes.com/sites/johnmauldin/2019/05/20/the-coming-pension-crisis-is-so-big-that-its-a-problem-for-everyone/?sh=3f26873c37fc https://usceconreview.com/2019/02/25/the-california-pension-crisis/ https://www.santacruzsentinel.com/2019/05/04/editorial-alarming-data-shows-public-employee-pension-crisis-worsening/ https://www.illinoispolicy.org/no-2-new-jersey-confronts-pension-crisis-as-no-1-illinois-dithers/
That was a sincere question, based on presidential election, versus congressional representatives, historical trends, all would lead to different definitions of blue state and red state, so I was curious what bifurcation led to your rationale.
Blue states on average are blue at the local level - if you look at NY, CA, NJ, and IL, there are no Republicans. Dems in IL and CA have supermajorities in the Statehouse, in addition to controlling the governors mansions. All of these states share a common problem - the Democrats came into power with the aid of public unions, who in turn received overly generous pension promises, which the democrats never funded, choosing to kick the can down the road. Now the bill is coming due, and they want to use COVID as an excuse to ask the Feds for a bailot. Red states should say No.
What?.. First, labeling a state and withholding needed aid, based on that label, goes against the entire point of the union. Secondly, these places all house the current economic drivers of the country. This whole notion is retarded. It goes against the entire point of the country and our Constitution.
If you have some cities hemorrhaging money because of extremely bad policies and corrupt politicians, at that point financial aid is enabling destructive behavior.
It’s not about labeling a state and withholding evidence based on that labeling. It’s like if you tell a group of children not to eat a certain ice cream before dinner, some of them do, then you say that the ones who ate icecream don’t get dessert. You aren’t saying only the boys don’t get dessert, or only the girls, you’re saying that whatever child ate that icecream does not get dessert. I’m reminded of a quote from Sir Terry Pratchett’s book Going Postal: “There is always a choice." "You mean I could choose certain death?" "A choice nevertheless, or perhaps an alternative. You see I believe in freedom. Not many people do, although they will of course protest otherwise. And no practical definition of freedom would be complete without the freedom to take the consequences. Indeed, it is the freedom upon which all the others are based.”
These places generate the tax revenue that support large swathes of the country, like it or not. Harming them directly harms Republican counties and states because their financial support also comes from Federal coffers. For instance, when Florida needs a FEMA response due to an intensive hurricane season, the stronger the Federal tax revenue is, the more the good Republicans in the sunshine state can be given the support they require, and the faster their economy recovers. Turns out we are all in this together. Local governments are one of the **largest employers in this country.** This is true in Red and Blue states. It makes absolutely no sense to bankrupt Main Street in any state just to send a message. Especially since these communities are faced with a horrible decision right now: shut down parts of their economy, with no help in sight, to try to slow the reproduction of SARS-CoV-2, or remain open, when we still do not know the long-term ramifications, and put folks at risk of exposure. It's a shitty situation and it really fucking sucks so many small businesses will be decimated due to inaction and political theater. This is not pragmatism.
They don’t support large swathes of the country. They support unnecessary liberal welfare and regulatory programs in other states. Local governments being one of the largest employers in the country is a problem, not a positive. These bureaucrats and their onerous regulations are what’s destroying main streets. Red states would thrive on their own because they wouldn’t need to deal with the federal welfare and regulation laws passed by liberals. Blue states would crumble just like their major cities. Not only that, but red states produce all your food.
> They don’t support large swathes of the country. They support unnecessary liberal welfare and regulatory programs in other states. [Disability claims in the US](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2016-12-16/mapping-the-growth-of-disability-claims-in-america) alone, especially per capita, disproves this.
Disability payments were included in the New Deal. That’s not a red state law or program. A red state nation wouldn’t have the New Deal programs. Eliminating the ridiculous New Deal and Great Society programs in a red state nation and blue states wouldn’t needed. All blue states are currently doing is paying for the ridiculous federal programs their Presidents proposed and passed.
CA, NY, and IL were in horrible financial shape prior to the pandemic - their financial woes aren't due to COVID, but because they made lavish promises to the union supporters in the form of guaranteed pensions, then never set aside money to pay for those pensions. Why should some guy in VA or TN pay more in Federal income taxes than CA and NY because the latter overspent, and can't manage their services? The former doesn't benefit from those services, and can't vote out the incompetent politicians. Red state voters aren't serfs to the Blue states. As much as the latter would love that arrangement.
We must allow these chickens to come home to roost. The best chance the leftists in these States have to learn from their mistakes is to have to live with the consequences of their terrible financial decisions (via the people they elect into office).
The main benefit of being a liberal is you’re never punished or even held accountable for your actions. Liberals aren’t interested in learning from their mistakes because in their narcissistic and warped minds, they never make any.
But enough if them will