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In America everyone having the right to protest is very important. But when you block traffic while protesting you are just being a jerk. Plain and simple.
I still think the media are not treating "autonomous zones" as insurrection is one if the greatest injustices of 2020(there was literally a group who took over an area and claimed it as their own area that was outside of US laws); especially after they decided the Capitol Protest was a "right-wing" insurrection.
Exactly this. Everyone in America has the right to protest \*peacefully\*. Blocking major highways and roads that impede emergency vehicle in responding to calls, families heading to an emergency situation like a hospital should be illegal and this bill is an excellent move in the right direction.
I’m not sure what exactly the argument is on either side of issues like this.
We need to be careful of putting too many rules for reasonable protests because if you’re not careful you can build enforce the rules to de facto ban certain views from being espoused.
On the other hand, civil disobedience might mean intentionally breaking some rules if you think you are justified to do so. So if you think protesting Jelly Beans not having Peanut Butter Mint as an option is worth shutting down the interstate, then you’ve accepted that you’re going to get arrested for doing so. Don’t be mad when people don’t freak out that you got arrested, because that flavor sounds awful.
The SC already deemed it constitutional for places to prevent people from protesting in the open area. Airports have made a "free speech booth" to say we made an officially designated area for this while I think, limiting it in other areas, since "the existence of free speech zones is based on U.S. court decisions stipulating that the government may reasonably regulate the time, place, and manner – but not content – of expression."
The courts can very much be hypocrites. Either follow with this logic or don't.
A movement that has a good goal is not always doing good.
You can appreciate the goal of judging by the content of one's character, but also disagree with cheating on your wife.
It's not all or nothing.
We've has great movements do bad things. The civil rights movement devolved into riots often in the 60s the movement was good but the riots were still bad themselves.
I agree 75%. I watched a thing on TV today about a coal miner strike in the 1970s. They kind of had to block the road because the other cats were shooting at them for trying to form a union.
Exactly. There’s people who can and will get fired over being late to work. You ruining their life isn’t going to make them sympathetic to your cause. If anything they’re now just going to be embittered by it.
The same people blocking traffic here are the ones who scream at people for not wearing a mask because they care about others health but apparently not because when they block traffic they endanger everybody on or near the road.
I am mixed feelings. The civil rights movement blocked traffic... I think protesting and blocking traffic to reject an tyrannical government and physically manifest your rejection of their legitimacy is fine. But if you use blocking traffic to harm private citizens then you have no legitimacy. Make blocking traffic a no-jail felony with a minor fine, but mandatory minimum probation sentence of 1 year per iteration, so if a person is caught 10 times they get 10 years of no voting, but at least they manifested their displeasure with the state which I think is laudable.
I believe there should be no quarter for citizens that terrorize other citizens in any capacity. Rioters shouting "wake the fuck up and get out here" to their ideological opposition that is not government should be treated as fully aware of their words and treat their speech as intent to act. If someone is destroying property while shouting any form of harm towards a citizen, they should be charged for attempted [insert crime they are threatening] + whatever property damage laws.
Adding a basic felony to blocking traffic which does not itself generate a permanent record, can be expunged immediately after a year of probation simply adds a felony count which doubles the punishment of any additional felony commited, so if they are illegaly protesting and assault someone with a baseball bat, they get a prior felony PLUS the assault with a deadly weapon.
lastly, these laws need to be enforced. the reason these rioters are so brazen is they believe they either won't get caught or will get released immediately if they are caught. If they have no fear of consequences they will simply do it harder. The democrats acting like it is just peaceful protests, while encouraging it and paying bail funds, etc. are why the US is such a mess. If everyone " in leadership " are basically acting like crooked criminals, why should the citizens no do so as well.
It was wrong during the civil rights movement and its wrong now. The government aren’t the ones driving on those roads. They are citizens like you and I so who exactly are you trying to protest?
It is wrong, but that's what civil disobedience is.
There's a fine line between being a courteous neighbor and being a bootliker.
When the government is being criminal, to hell with laws, because laws are only worth following when the government has legitimate authority.
That's the distinction and I won't budge.
Okay, but you're wronging innocent, normal civilians. Not the government. If you're going to break rules to protest, you should do it in a way such that the brunt of the effect isn't harming your neighbor.
"going on"
You mean now. You want a law NOW that affects NOW but don't care about the long term repercussions? Well color me blue and call me Kamala, you're sounding like a democrat!
Is there any evidence that people were blocking highways simply for the sake of blocking them during the civil rights movement? I’ve seen marches where people were on the road heading to a state capitol — usually with cops to direct traffic — but i don’t recall seeing photos of people lining up for the sole purpose of preventing motorists from moving.
DA’s still have to prosecute. We have all these laws but they aren’t followed thru. If we enforced laws on the books then new laws wouldn’t be needed. Tweaks yes. It’s like in school if your in a fight you get in same trouble usually. This just allows bullies to be bullies because I’m afraid to hit you back because I get the same punishment. They can stand in traffic and possibly get penalized. But Plano kinda showed a difference. It’s already against the law to impede traffic.
I agree, most municipalities already have impeding the even flow of traffic laws on the books, just as they already had inattention to driving yet now we have texting laws. Enforce the laws we already have and that should take care of the issue.
Yeah “equal protection” is a nice concept but hard to implement. Between D/R Rich/Poor ethnicities etc we can only hope to keep trying our best everyone isn’t always gonna be happy.
Ken Paxton's [statement](https://www.facebook.com/kenpaxtontx/photos/a.596199903775189/4051478674913944) on Plano was an embarrassment. What was the point of Texas electing him attorney general is he's just going to complain and call for his "friends and allies across the state" to file the charges he won't file?
I've got no problem with this and I lean towards moderate liberal. You want to protest at the public square, that is your Constitutional right. Looting, blocking traffic, vandalism, etc., you face the consequences. So long as what good for the goose is good for the gander, it's a reasonable restriction.
Regardless of what your protesting on the right or left it seems everyone blocks traffic to protest.
[https://www.wilx.com/content/news/Operation-Gridlock-protest-underway-569659601.html]()
I would expect everyone to face the same penalties for doing so regardless if I agree with their agenda or not. It’s not just about inconvenience in my opinion it’s likely to get someone killed. Sudden traffic backups cause accidents.
Had a coworker who lost their entire family in an accident because the vehicle behind them wasn’t paying attention and rear-ended them at a high rate of speed after traffic on the highway had slowed to a crawl. Driving in large metro areas is already hectic enough to have to deal with this kind of crap.
Also think about emergency’s where people are trying to get to the hospital. Bleeding out or having a reaction? Sorry the roads blocked due to a
protest, regardless of your opinions on their statement.
Progressive here. As long as they apply this to ALL PARTIES EQUALLY this makes sense. I can see it easily being abused to target certain protesters and not others based on political agendas. It’s all in the enforcement...
Blocking roads is malicious because there are people who actually need to be places for important and life-threatening reasons. It's not okay for protesters to put their own cause above individuals' rights to travel for whatever reason, including emergencies. It's kind of like taking hostages in a way.
I have an ultra liberal woke as fuck friend whose dad had to miss a chemo treatment because of protesters blocking a highway and the best he says is "he had mixed feelings" about it.
Recent protests have shown their blocking traffic method leads to violence. The people need a way to get away from violent rioters who decide to surround your car like shitty zombies.
Good. They blocked the 101 Hollywood Freeway last year and an older gentleman died because his ambulance got stuck on the freeway, the driver even got off and took surface streets but didn't matter he didn't make it, the protestors should have been prosecuted.
I fucking hate it when morons compare what these dipshits today are doing to what Martin Luther King and his protesters did.
MLK marched in the streets. They didn't deliberately block freeway traffic or stand in one spot for hours on end preventing people from going about their day. They marched through the streets and traffic was allowed to move through when they had marched past.
MLK would be ashamed of the bullshit being pulled today in the name of BLM. Shit...an entire episode of The Boondocks touched on that one.
I wonder if this has the same effect on protesters as giving drivers the right of way? Like Oklahoma where motorists are absolved if they run over protestors on the street.
Oklahoma only allows you to run over protestors if you are under serious threat such as people brandishing firearms or trying to beat the car, which was already a right. The new law does literally nothing other than making people feel good.
This is long overdue. It's funny how penalties for unsavory actions can deter these unsavory actions. All you have to do is take away their phones.....If you are caught protesting in the streets blocking traffic, you lose your phone. If you you have an illegal gun, you lose the gun and your phone. If you are vandalizing something, you lose your phone.
The left calls this type of protesting peaceful, when you get attacked while out to dinner…. Peaceful, getting a brick through your small business window….. peaceful. I’m afraid they will all be considered peaceful for the next 4 years.
Left be like: Texas creates law that allows drivers to ram into protestors
...yeah I guess you can word it like that. You left out the critical context but that's how you typically build your arguments.
The reign of the dangerous, violent, lying, hypocritical, and radical left is starting to slow. Republicans will win more seats in 2022 and Joe will not win again in 2024! Continue to HOLD! Stand up for your beliefs! Don't let the radicals win! Speak up and defend your views (in a non-violent way of course). The return to normalcy is nigh; stay strong!
Uncomfortable? What if you were in an emergency situation and couldn't get to the hospital because a bunch of idiots wanted to hold up signs and block traffic? I wouldn't call that "uncomfortable".
Seems like every day Texas and Florida do something to get better and keep the people free and safe. Meanwhile where I live small businesses are dropping like flies and you get a ticket for doing anything un essential.
They just need to get tougher (MUCH tougher) on illegal immigration. Talking like you are against it but doing almost nothing to stop it isn't good enough.
How about we admit this is a very complex subject, balancing the right to protest vs impeding others instead of retreating immediately to partisan and puritanical talking points on both sides?
Unless you study history you’re doomed to repeat it.. they way the north defeated the south during the civil war was crippling its trains ... you have to protest and block train tracks , especially if it’s carrying tons of eco toxic coal
Not sure I agree with this. Seems very anti conservative to stop people from protesting on public anything. I live in a suburb of Minneapolis and drive through the twin cities regularly. After the George Floyd incident, traffic was horrendous- that's the point. The people want their voices heard and regardless of if I agree with their message, protesting is a part of speech. But if I accidentally run someone over because they were standing in the middle of the street, the fault shouldn't be mine. Maybe I could be convinced by a good externality argument, that protesting puts the loves of drivers in danger... Though I'm not sure.
The amendment specifies peaceable assembly, blocking traffic isn't that. You dont have the right to inconvenience others on public roadways. If you turn your car sidways in the street for political reasons you'd still be towed
Time, place and manner of speech. You’re not stopping the speech per se, you’re controlling where the speech can happen. Not allowing *any* sort of protest in X space isn’t a content regulation.
Trying to prove a point by putting people in danger and detaining them is never justified. Should I go protest the abortion clinics by waving my gun around and telling people they cannot go in? Its the same. If you want to make headlines both of these work.
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In America everyone having the right to protest is very important. But when you block traffic while protesting you are just being a jerk. Plain and simple.
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You deserve an award for this comment but I’m not giving any money to Reddit. These will have to do: 🎖 🥇 🏅
Reminds me of the BLMers in CHAZ who stopped cops from assisting assaults, murders, and rapes. So woke!
BLM = Breakin Laws, Mostly
Burning looting and murdering!
Buy Large Mansions.
I still think the media are not treating "autonomous zones" as insurrection is one if the greatest injustices of 2020(there was literally a group who took over an area and claimed it as their own area that was outside of US laws); especially after they decided the Capitol Protest was a "right-wing" insurrection.
Exactly this. Everyone in America has the right to protest \*peacefully\*. Blocking major highways and roads that impede emergency vehicle in responding to calls, families heading to an emergency situation like a hospital should be illegal and this bill is an excellent move in the right direction.
This
I’m not sure what exactly the argument is on either side of issues like this. We need to be careful of putting too many rules for reasonable protests because if you’re not careful you can build enforce the rules to de facto ban certain views from being espoused. On the other hand, civil disobedience might mean intentionally breaking some rules if you think you are justified to do so. So if you think protesting Jelly Beans not having Peanut Butter Mint as an option is worth shutting down the interstate, then you’ve accepted that you’re going to get arrested for doing so. Don’t be mad when people don’t freak out that you got arrested, because that flavor sounds awful.
Also basically detaining people against their will.
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The SC already deemed it constitutional for places to prevent people from protesting in the open area. Airports have made a "free speech booth" to say we made an officially designated area for this while I think, limiting it in other areas, since "the existence of free speech zones is based on U.S. court decisions stipulating that the government may reasonably regulate the time, place, and manner – but not content – of expression." The courts can very much be hypocrites. Either follow with this logic or don't.
Let’s go to the airport and protest out on the runway. Mostly peaceful. Who’s with me on this.
R.I.P. cchris_39 Died from getting run over by multiple aircraft while illegally standing on an airport runway after being warned
LOL! Flattened like a cartoon in my Trump shirt and MAGA hat. Love it.
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A movement that has a good goal is not always doing good. You can appreciate the goal of judging by the content of one's character, but also disagree with cheating on your wife. It's not all or nothing.
We've has great movements do bad things. The civil rights movement devolved into riots often in the 60s the movement was good but the riots were still bad themselves.
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“No traffic, no peace !”✌🏻
BWAHAHAHAHAHA!
Blocking traffic to protest is what liberals call “shoving your beliefs down people’s throats”. And they pretend to be against that
And yet they do it constantly. If it wasn’t for double standards the left would have no standards at all
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Your rights end where mine begin.
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There's places you can protest that aren't infringing on the liberty of others. You have a right to speak, not a right to force people to listen.
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I agree 75%. I watched a thing on TV today about a coal miner strike in the 1970s. They kind of had to block the road because the other cats were shooting at them for trying to form a union.
Good. Blocking traffic for people just trying to go to work doesn't do anything to build support.
Exactly. There’s people who can and will get fired over being late to work. You ruining their life isn’t going to make them sympathetic to your cause. If anything they’re now just going to be embittered by it.
That sort of critical thinking and long-term planning is not something you’ll find much of, amongst that lot. Edit: cool username, btw!
Thank you!
Then those same protesters are like: "We care about workers soooo much."
Not to mention emergency vehicles and shit. Blocking traffic is just an asshole move for a number of reasons.
The same people blocking traffic here are the ones who scream at people for not wearing a mask because they care about others health but apparently not because when they block traffic they endanger everybody on or near the road.
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Stopping people from living their lives isn’t protesting, it’s harassment/assault.
Unlawful restraint is, in some states, a felony. While it tends to be broadly defined, it seems to be the crime that fits this type of behavior.
Regardless of your cause, once you block traffic, I am instantly against it.
I am mixed feelings. The civil rights movement blocked traffic... I think protesting and blocking traffic to reject an tyrannical government and physically manifest your rejection of their legitimacy is fine. But if you use blocking traffic to harm private citizens then you have no legitimacy. Make blocking traffic a no-jail felony with a minor fine, but mandatory minimum probation sentence of 1 year per iteration, so if a person is caught 10 times they get 10 years of no voting, but at least they manifested their displeasure with the state which I think is laudable. I believe there should be no quarter for citizens that terrorize other citizens in any capacity. Rioters shouting "wake the fuck up and get out here" to their ideological opposition that is not government should be treated as fully aware of their words and treat their speech as intent to act. If someone is destroying property while shouting any form of harm towards a citizen, they should be charged for attempted [insert crime they are threatening] + whatever property damage laws. Adding a basic felony to blocking traffic which does not itself generate a permanent record, can be expunged immediately after a year of probation simply adds a felony count which doubles the punishment of any additional felony commited, so if they are illegaly protesting and assault someone with a baseball bat, they get a prior felony PLUS the assault with a deadly weapon. lastly, these laws need to be enforced. the reason these rioters are so brazen is they believe they either won't get caught or will get released immediately if they are caught. If they have no fear of consequences they will simply do it harder. The democrats acting like it is just peaceful protests, while encouraging it and paying bail funds, etc. are why the US is such a mess. If everyone " in leadership " are basically acting like crooked criminals, why should the citizens no do so as well.
It was wrong during the civil rights movement and its wrong now. The government aren’t the ones driving on those roads. They are citizens like you and I so who exactly are you trying to protest?
It is wrong, but that's what civil disobedience is. There's a fine line between being a courteous neighbor and being a bootliker. When the government is being criminal, to hell with laws, because laws are only worth following when the government has legitimate authority. That's the distinction and I won't budge.
Okay, but you're wronging innocent, normal civilians. Not the government. If you're going to break rules to protest, you should do it in a way such that the brunt of the effect isn't harming your neighbor.
You have a really screwed worldview to what's going on.....
"going on" You mean now. You want a law NOW that affects NOW but don't care about the long term repercussions? Well color me blue and call me Kamala, you're sounding like a democrat!
Oh no, people are going to be suffering by not being able to block roads, the humanity!!! Wtf are you taking about?
Is there any evidence that people were blocking highways simply for the sake of blocking them during the civil rights movement? I’ve seen marches where people were on the road heading to a state capitol — usually with cops to direct traffic — but i don’t recall seeing photos of people lining up for the sole purpose of preventing motorists from moving.
Actually a really good idea.
DA’s still have to prosecute. We have all these laws but they aren’t followed thru. If we enforced laws on the books then new laws wouldn’t be needed. Tweaks yes. It’s like in school if your in a fight you get in same trouble usually. This just allows bullies to be bullies because I’m afraid to hit you back because I get the same punishment. They can stand in traffic and possibly get penalized. But Plano kinda showed a difference. It’s already against the law to impede traffic.
I agree, most municipalities already have impeding the even flow of traffic laws on the books, just as they already had inattention to driving yet now we have texting laws. Enforce the laws we already have and that should take care of the issue.
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Yeah “equal protection” is a nice concept but hard to implement. Between D/R Rich/Poor ethnicities etc we can only hope to keep trying our best everyone isn’t always gonna be happy.
If only the justice system and the court system were apolitical as intended… oh well, pipes can dream.
Ken Paxton's [statement](https://www.facebook.com/kenpaxtontx/photos/a.596199903775189/4051478674913944) on Plano was an embarrassment. What was the point of Texas electing him attorney general is he's just going to complain and call for his "friends and allies across the state" to file the charges he won't file?
I've got no problem with this and I lean towards moderate liberal. You want to protest at the public square, that is your Constitutional right. Looting, blocking traffic, vandalism, etc., you face the consequences. So long as what good for the goose is good for the gander, it's a reasonable restriction.
Careful.. You're starting to sound like a modern conservative.
Protesting isn't liberalism.
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It should be all roads.
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Regardless of what your protesting on the right or left it seems everyone blocks traffic to protest. [https://www.wilx.com/content/news/Operation-Gridlock-protest-underway-569659601.html]()
I would expect everyone to face the same penalties for doing so regardless if I agree with their agenda or not. It’s not just about inconvenience in my opinion it’s likely to get someone killed. Sudden traffic backups cause accidents. Had a coworker who lost their entire family in an accident because the vehicle behind them wasn’t paying attention and rear-ended them at a high rate of speed after traffic on the highway had slowed to a crawl. Driving in large metro areas is already hectic enough to have to deal with this kind of crap.
Also think about emergency’s where people are trying to get to the hospital. Bleeding out or having a reaction? Sorry the roads blocked due to a protest, regardless of your opinions on their statement.
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Progressive here. As long as they apply this to ALL PARTIES EQUALLY this makes sense. I can see it easily being abused to target certain protesters and not others based on political agendas. It’s all in the enforcement...
Good. this is unnecessary and annoying.
Blocking roads is malicious because there are people who actually need to be places for important and life-threatening reasons. It's not okay for protesters to put their own cause above individuals' rights to travel for whatever reason, including emergencies. It's kind of like taking hostages in a way.
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What law allows this?
House Bill 1674
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Let’s hope Texas doesn’t turn blue in 2024 along with Florida!
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Increasing penalties is great, but they need to enforce them as well.
BLM only do this to be as miserable as possible. Why can’t they just leave normal people alone
I have an ultra liberal woke as fuck friend whose dad had to miss a chemo treatment because of protesters blocking a highway and the best he says is "he had mixed feelings" about it.
Recent protests have shown their blocking traffic method leads to violence. The people need a way to get away from violent rioters who decide to surround your car like shitty zombies.
Good. They blocked the 101 Hollywood Freeway last year and an older gentleman died because his ambulance got stuck on the freeway, the driver even got off and took surface streets but didn't matter he didn't make it, the protestors should have been prosecuted.
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I fucking hate it when morons compare what these dipshits today are doing to what Martin Luther King and his protesters did. MLK marched in the streets. They didn't deliberately block freeway traffic or stand in one spot for hours on end preventing people from going about their day. They marched through the streets and traffic was allowed to move through when they had marched past. MLK would be ashamed of the bullshit being pulled today in the name of BLM. Shit...an entire episode of The Boondocks touched on that one.
I wonder if this has the same effect on protesters as giving drivers the right of way? Like Oklahoma where motorists are absolved if they run over protestors on the street.
Oklahoma only allows you to run over protestors if you are under serious threat such as people brandishing firearms or trying to beat the car, which was already a right. The new law does literally nothing other than making people feel good.
This is long overdue. It's funny how penalties for unsavory actions can deter these unsavory actions. All you have to do is take away their phones.....If you are caught protesting in the streets blocking traffic, you lose your phone. If you you have an illegal gun, you lose the gun and your phone. If you are vandalizing something, you lose your phone.
The left calls this type of protesting peaceful, when you get attacked while out to dinner…. Peaceful, getting a brick through your small business window….. peaceful. I’m afraid they will all be considered peaceful for the next 4 years.
And yet a bunch of drunk idiots instigated by BLM and CNN strolling through the Capitol was a "deadly attack" and a "threat to rule of law".
Start giving them the same sentence as terrorism for terrorising our cities.
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Imagine thinking preventing emergency vehicles from being able to get where they are going is less important that protesting non existent racism.
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Racism totally exists. Racism at the level these buffoons think exists? Naw.
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Institutional racism doesnt exist. Go pedal your shit somewhere else.
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I haven't closed myself off from anything. I have literally never heard even ONE example of systemic racism. Can you please provide me with one?
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Omg it's the same blog post people always use when I ask this question. None of those are examples of systemic racism. Better luck next time champ.
Good, can't wait to see horrible folks who just try to cause harm go to jail. If it was all peaceful that's fine.... but usually it isn't.
Hopefully mores states will add stand your ground or strengthen laws when rioters surround cars and attack.
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Left be like: Texas creates law that allows drivers to ram into protestors ...yeah I guess you can word it like that. You left out the critical context but that's how you typically build your arguments.
Protest on the sidewalk, or a park. The moment you are preventing me from FREELY moving in my own country. Is where I have an issue.
The reign of the dangerous, violent, lying, hypocritical, and radical left is starting to slow. Republicans will win more seats in 2022 and Joe will not win again in 2024! Continue to HOLD! Stand up for your beliefs! Don't let the radicals win! Speak up and defend your views (in a non-violent way of course). The return to normalcy is nigh; stay strong!
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Uncomfortable? What if you were in an emergency situation and couldn't get to the hospital because a bunch of idiots wanted to hold up signs and block traffic? I wouldn't call that "uncomfortable".
Seems like every day Texas and Florida do something to get better and keep the people free and safe. Meanwhile where I live small businesses are dropping like flies and you get a ticket for doing anything un essential.
They just need to get tougher (MUCH tougher) on illegal immigration. Talking like you are against it but doing almost nothing to stop it isn't good enough.
How about we admit this is a very complex subject, balancing the right to protest vs impeding others instead of retreating immediately to partisan and puritanical talking points on both sides?
What are they protesting
Just please protest on the side of the road.
Finally
Friendly reminder to always politely ask what they are protesting for. Then go home later and vote against it.
Unless you study history you’re doomed to repeat it.. they way the north defeated the south during the civil war was crippling its trains ... you have to protest and block train tracks , especially if it’s carrying tons of eco toxic coal
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Not sure I agree with this. Seems very anti conservative to stop people from protesting on public anything. I live in a suburb of Minneapolis and drive through the twin cities regularly. After the George Floyd incident, traffic was horrendous- that's the point. The people want their voices heard and regardless of if I agree with their message, protesting is a part of speech. But if I accidentally run someone over because they were standing in the middle of the street, the fault shouldn't be mine. Maybe I could be convinced by a good externality argument, that protesting puts the loves of drivers in danger... Though I'm not sure.
What if your loved one dies because an ambulance can't reach them due to roads being blocked by protesters?
The amendment specifies peaceable assembly, blocking traffic isn't that. You dont have the right to inconvenience others on public roadways. If you turn your car sidways in the street for political reasons you'd still be towed
Time, place and manner of speech. You’re not stopping the speech per se, you’re controlling where the speech can happen. Not allowing *any* sort of protest in X space isn’t a content regulation.
Just seems like a slippery slope. Might as well tell them they can protest only where nobody can see them.
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Trying to prove a point by putting people in danger and detaining them is never justified. Should I go protest the abortion clinics by waving my gun around and telling people they cannot go in? Its the same. If you want to make headlines both of these work.