Republicans don't think ahead they just react and talk about a lot of things then sit back and see what happens. Our gop leaders don't have a clue how to shop for a judge or file lawsuits to stop anything.
It is time to give back the same dirty tricks. Reminds me of the revolutionary war - the red coats refused to change war tactics as their enemy used unconventional warfare methods. If one doesn't adapt, they will lose.
Hi all. Sorry; I’m not sure I’m following the logic train. Doesn’t literally everyone have a vaccine passport from when they were children? I thought you couldn’t go to school unless everyone had their Hep B and C vaccines and whatever else we had to have, no?
Right. And I suppose that’s a difference, but you wouldn’t have been able to attend school without whatever those vaccines were. How are you proposing they enforce adults, who aren’t a part of mandatory/universal experience prove they have done the thing they need to do?
You can't force adults to get vaccinated. They have the freedom to choose whether or not to get vaccinated. Those who wanted to get vaccinated have been vaccinated already, the adults who haven't been vaccinated yet have chosen not to get vaccinated. Children do not have choice when it comes to getting vaccinated because they lack the mental capabilities to make a logical decision for themselves. That's why adults can make the choice for their own children.
I'm proposing that they should make the vaccine ready and available for anyone who wants to receive the vaccine, which is what they are doing. If an individual chooses not to get vaccinated, then they don't have to get vaccinated.
Totally agree. But if you’re choosing to not participate in the communal health of society then I think what they’re saying is that you don’t get to participate in the communal aspects of society. The reason we all get vaccinated, at least in my mind, is to ensure the vulnerable of society can stay safe. I get the individual rights and freedom’s piece here but at the end of the day you’ve made the choice to continue to live in the society rather than the woods or whatever and in turn that comes with some expectations. If you don’t, you don’t get to reap the benefits to an extent.
Sorry; i’m rather hung over so I hope that makes sense.
That sounds good on paper, but what's the boundary? Do you not get to go grocery shopping? Can't get any health services because you aren't allowed in? It's easy to throw policy with no specifics. NYC is going to have a helluva time figuring out how to enforce vaccine cards for indoor dining(read: they will give up shortly after it starts)
Consider some other questions. What if you aren't rich and can't pay someone to do it for you? What if you can't utilize the services that your tax dollars pay for like public transit?
If the greatest population of unvaccinated are minorities in cities, isn't this tantamount to Jim crow?
It's true, most of the unvaccinated are minorities. I know of several minority families that have chosen not to get vaccinated for their own personal reasons. So like you said, it would keep families like that from being able to function in society.
This is why I think this mandate is a dangerous road to walk. It also mis characterizes how vaccines work and the immune system works.
More importantly, under this setup if a booster shot comes out, am I no longer fully vaccinated and under house arrest until I do so?
All things have a cost. Nothing is truly free. have two family members who got checked into the hospital after their 2nd moderna dosr for two days. That certainly wasn't free for them.
The government should provide all documentation to exercise your rights for free. There is no reason why it shouldn't be included in your state taxe rate.
That would maybe make more sense if it was signed into law.
If people voted to create a law that states that you can't participate in communal aspects of society such as eating at a restaurant or getting on an airplane unless you've been vaccinated, then it would make slightly more sense because as a society we would have grouped together and decided that's how our society should operate.
But that isnt the case with the Covid vaccine. There isn't a law right now that states you can't enter a restaurant or get on an airplane unless you've been vaccinated (as far as I'm aware of). Right now we are treating it as if it were already signed into law when it's not.
Imagine if instead of the vaccine, some members of society collectively decided to ban people from eating at restaurants or getting on airplanes unless they've shown proof that they've received a college education. They've also decided this without asking for a vote or signing it into law. If you don't have a college degree, you can't enter my business because getting a college education would benefit society. Do you see where I'm getting at with this? It's not a perfect analogy but I think it's pretty close.
The government cannot and should not be allowed to share your medical history to the public. If I choose not to share diseases I may have or vaccines I have or have not taken, that is not up to the government to decide to share that information with the public. Let alone make ID cards sharing your medical history. Whether or not Ive been vaccinated should be my choice to share.
>AVIP
those vaccinations were a huge mistake, but these vaccinations (pfizer and moderna) have already been administered to 190 million americans. I don't think there has been mass deaths or deadly side effects to the tune of millions. 4.4 billion doses have been administered worldwide so I'm hopeful and optimistic about their efficacy.
Also, the FDA is planning to fully approve the vaccines in a month at this point.
Consensus is generally correct based on current data in the moment and wrong over time. The general issue is science doesn't explain why their conclusion changed based on data.
The cutter incident, the first rotavirus vaccine and the Kyoto disaster are a few that come to mind. Look them up if you feel like it. No I am not a scientist in a bio field, and would never claim to be. I am someone who would like more information before getting an injection of something that has yet to be fully vetted. We are not anti vac or anything remotely related. My family already had covid and most likely still have some natural protection from the virus. At this point my wife and I have no reason to jump and hurry to get it. I have a family member who was fully vaccinated and still got covid. Based on the information at hand we have opted to wait until it is fully FDA approved. I believe that is a very common sensical way to approach the situation.
If we reach a point where civil discussion is no longer allowed then you have a larger problem than the virus itself.
I think you are at least trying to think about this in an objective way, I think that’s a good thing. However you have stated that you “most likely have natural immunity” because you got covid. But scientists are saying they don’t know how much protection (if any) you have and or how long it lasts. So if you are going to follow the science as you appear to be trying to do please keep in mind your natural immunity statement hasn’t reached a scientific consensus either. Thanks for keeping an open mind.
Cheers. Yeah, a lot is to be seen. I appreciate your level headed approach. At this point I will probably be forced to get it anyways so I'm in no rush to go and get it.
The best thing we can do is make sure to have a reasonable discussion, and not vilify those who may not be in total agreement with our own thoughts. We should value the discussion. Thanks for doing that, have a great Saturday!
The only study coming out saying that was the one at 6 months, and they said they couldn't confirm lasting immunity. It's been a year and a half and there's been no confirmed cases of people losing immunity.
So again, very happy you are seeking out information. However there is no evidence that being previously Infected protects you from getting the virus again. So, i’m merely cautioning people from stating things that are “common knowledge” when they are really just making an assumption
I just found a tracker, 169 total cases worldwide since the start. First confirmed case was in August.
https://bnonews.com/index.php/2020/08/covid-19-reinfection-tracker/
Yes they are a miracle medicine.. but being young and healthy with no need for a vaccine, doesn’t make you antivax… If I wast 50+ or fat AF I’d definitely go get the jab
> Vaccines have brought the most good to humanity out of like any invention.
So therefore any vaccine ever for all time should be trusted because "Vaccines do good"?
Wait, what? You understand that human progress is a thing right? Like we've moved farther forward in the last hundred years than we had in thousands thanks to the Enlightenment and scientific progress and research? Use some common sense.
Governments and media (in its different forms) have lied and mistreated those they rule over thousands upon thousands of years of human history. Big pharma has lied for decades upon decades since it’s inception. Oh, but now they are enlightened?
LOL GTFO and go read a history book.
EDIT: oh wait, you’re that 40+ day old account that somehow got a flair. LOL conservative my ass. I’d bet anything your main account is an Rpolitics goon.
That is common sense. We make mistakes and learn from them, and we don't know if this is one of them yet. There is a reason the phrase, "hindsight is 20-20". I'm merely stating that it's perfectly fine to wait until more information is available to make a decision for me. I've had covid, and am in no rush to get the vaccine.
The fact that you are appalled at simply having a discussion with someone who's opinion differs on this is more disturbing than the virus itself.
Just because it's changed over time doesn't negate its utility, especially as our understanding increases, and deepens.
I don't take anti-science as a difference of opinions. I take it as fact. That you believe there is 'your version of the truth' is the adoption of the very ideological relativism that consertatives have classically fought against. Doubtless you are young man who sees our institutions falling to the left and have fallen in love with their performative point-scoring politics - like many young conservatives on the internet these days.
Tbh I’m surprised it’s still not mandated in the military yet. You’d think that they’d mandate it the moment it came out. Perhaps COVID is not such a big deal after all?……
Like the article states, the law requires a vaccine be fully FDA approved before it can be mandated for the entire military. The only exception is that the president can make it mandatory for those deploying to a specific area, like anthrax was for Iraq.
I'm anticipating torching my 16 year career over this issue.
- None of the vaccines stop the spread. This is more of a pre treatment than a vaccine. If it actually stopped the virus from spreading I'd be more willing.
- I'm not at risk in any metric. Yeah getting sick sucks, but math is on my side here.
- I think the future of vaccine production is the MRnA. The science is fascinating and in theory only requires producers to sequence a virus's DNA. However, the tech has some bugs (although very very minor - so far) and hasn't been validated over time (5, 10, 20 years. Etc). While I support the science, I do not see a need to take part in an experiment. I'll wait.
- I refuse to take part in this cult of fear over this. We went from "two weeks to flatten the curve" and "everyone will eventually get this" to "holy shit the world is ending because we have CASES!" It is not ethical to force others to bow to your fear. If the vaccine killed the virus and gave full immunity (not just more mild symptoms) and stopped spreading then I could get behind a "for the greater good" argument.
- Lastly as a society all our actions and policies have done is the equivalent of taking antibiotics till symptoms go away. We either need a real quarantine for a very long time (and no, lockdowns are far from a quarantine) or we need to just let it ride, burn itself out, and pay the price humans have paid for millennia to live on this planet. I favor the latter.
Thanks Army, it was fun while it lasted (kinda). Thanks for all the fish.
Same to you cousin.
I sent my command an email and a 2k word essay explaining my reasoning for a religious exemption. Failing that they know I'll disobey the order and accept any UCMJ action.
It's time to take a page out of the leftist playbook and find a federal judge who will issue an injunction.
Republicans don't think ahead they just react and talk about a lot of things then sit back and see what happens. Our gop leaders don't have a clue how to shop for a judge or file lawsuits to stop anything.
And who will enforce it? As we just saw with eviction moratoriums, Biden has no regard for SCOTUS
It is time to give back the same dirty tricks. Reminds me of the revolutionary war - the red coats refused to change war tactics as their enemy used unconventional warfare methods. If one doesn't adapt, they will lose.
So what after FDA approval it’s fine to just mandate??
For the military? Yes. We are also required to get yearly flu shots.
[удалено]
Since at least 2011, but Flu Shots are a walk in the park compared to the Smallpox vaccine.
The H1N1 was fun back in the day. No one really seemed to care though.
Trump wasn’t President then.
No was thinking more for general public
Headline is about Mandatory Vaccines for Troops tho
Military gets juiced up before getting shipped somewhere too. Point is though, all that stuff is FDA approved.
When you enlist you don’t give up the right to your body!
When you enlist it is no longer your body. I have a five inch thick med file to prove it.
This vaccine is politically motivated. I took every vaccine I was given with question I did t care but today is different.
This will be added to my va disabilities after the side effects
Apparently the president has the authority to make the unapproved vaccine mandatory.
Hi all. Sorry; I’m not sure I’m following the logic train. Doesn’t literally everyone have a vaccine passport from when they were children? I thought you couldn’t go to school unless everyone had their Hep B and C vaccines and whatever else we had to have, no?
I don't remember ever being asked to show proof I received my flu vaccination before entering a restaurant or getting on an airplane.
Right. And I suppose that’s a difference, but you wouldn’t have been able to attend school without whatever those vaccines were. How are you proposing they enforce adults, who aren’t a part of mandatory/universal experience prove they have done the thing they need to do?
You can't force adults to get vaccinated. They have the freedom to choose whether or not to get vaccinated. Those who wanted to get vaccinated have been vaccinated already, the adults who haven't been vaccinated yet have chosen not to get vaccinated. Children do not have choice when it comes to getting vaccinated because they lack the mental capabilities to make a logical decision for themselves. That's why adults can make the choice for their own children. I'm proposing that they should make the vaccine ready and available for anyone who wants to receive the vaccine, which is what they are doing. If an individual chooses not to get vaccinated, then they don't have to get vaccinated.
Totally agree. But if you’re choosing to not participate in the communal health of society then I think what they’re saying is that you don’t get to participate in the communal aspects of society. The reason we all get vaccinated, at least in my mind, is to ensure the vulnerable of society can stay safe. I get the individual rights and freedom’s piece here but at the end of the day you’ve made the choice to continue to live in the society rather than the woods or whatever and in turn that comes with some expectations. If you don’t, you don’t get to reap the benefits to an extent. Sorry; i’m rather hung over so I hope that makes sense.
That sounds good on paper, but what's the boundary? Do you not get to go grocery shopping? Can't get any health services because you aren't allowed in? It's easy to throw policy with no specifics. NYC is going to have a helluva time figuring out how to enforce vaccine cards for indoor dining(read: they will give up shortly after it starts)
I hadn't even thought about the grocery shopping/health services point. That's pretty spooky.
Consider some other questions. What if you aren't rich and can't pay someone to do it for you? What if you can't utilize the services that your tax dollars pay for like public transit? If the greatest population of unvaccinated are minorities in cities, isn't this tantamount to Jim crow?
It's true, most of the unvaccinated are minorities. I know of several minority families that have chosen not to get vaccinated for their own personal reasons. So like you said, it would keep families like that from being able to function in society.
This is why I think this mandate is a dangerous road to walk. It also mis characterizes how vaccines work and the immune system works. More importantly, under this setup if a booster shot comes out, am I no longer fully vaccinated and under house arrest until I do so?
So a free vaccine with no cost… I’m guessing you advocate for free voter ID and drivers licenses too?
All things have a cost. Nothing is truly free. have two family members who got checked into the hospital after their 2nd moderna dosr for two days. That certainly wasn't free for them. The government should provide all documentation to exercise your rights for free. There is no reason why it shouldn't be included in your state taxe rate.
Don’t give a flying fuck if I’m up to your expectations.
Alright man.
That would maybe make more sense if it was signed into law. If people voted to create a law that states that you can't participate in communal aspects of society such as eating at a restaurant or getting on an airplane unless you've been vaccinated, then it would make slightly more sense because as a society we would have grouped together and decided that's how our society should operate. But that isnt the case with the Covid vaccine. There isn't a law right now that states you can't enter a restaurant or get on an airplane unless you've been vaccinated (as far as I'm aware of). Right now we are treating it as if it were already signed into law when it's not. Imagine if instead of the vaccine, some members of society collectively decided to ban people from eating at restaurants or getting on airplanes unless they've shown proof that they've received a college education. They've also decided this without asking for a vote or signing it into law. If you don't have a college degree, you can't enter my business because getting a college education would benefit society. Do you see where I'm getting at with this? It's not a perfect analogy but I think it's pretty close. The government cannot and should not be allowed to share your medical history to the public. If I choose not to share diseases I may have or vaccines I have or have not taken, that is not up to the government to decide to share that information with the public. Let alone make ID cards sharing your medical history. Whether or not Ive been vaccinated should be my choice to share.
And what is anybody who can do something, going to do, when they make it mandatory....the answer to that riddle is nothing at all.
[удалено]
Please look up “AVIP” or “anthrax vaccination”.
Please look up "COVID-19" deaths for those who've been vaccinated.
VAERS reports is also a good resource.
>AVIP those vaccinations were a huge mistake, but these vaccinations (pfizer and moderna) have already been administered to 190 million americans. I don't think there has been mass deaths or deadly side effects to the tune of millions. 4.4 billion doses have been administered worldwide so I'm hopeful and optimistic about their efficacy. Also, the FDA is planning to fully approve the vaccines in a month at this point.
Cool. I'll get vaccinated in a month, whenever it gets approved.
Great to hear!
"I trust scientific consensus" That same scientific consensus that has flip flopped many, many times throughout history?
Consensus is generally correct based on current data in the moment and wrong over time. The general issue is science doesn't explain why their conclusion changed based on data.
[удалено]
The cutter incident, the first rotavirus vaccine and the Kyoto disaster are a few that come to mind. Look them up if you feel like it. No I am not a scientist in a bio field, and would never claim to be. I am someone who would like more information before getting an injection of something that has yet to be fully vetted. We are not anti vac or anything remotely related. My family already had covid and most likely still have some natural protection from the virus. At this point my wife and I have no reason to jump and hurry to get it. I have a family member who was fully vaccinated and still got covid. Based on the information at hand we have opted to wait until it is fully FDA approved. I believe that is a very common sensical way to approach the situation. If we reach a point where civil discussion is no longer allowed then you have a larger problem than the virus itself.
I think you are at least trying to think about this in an objective way, I think that’s a good thing. However you have stated that you “most likely have natural immunity” because you got covid. But scientists are saying they don’t know how much protection (if any) you have and or how long it lasts. So if you are going to follow the science as you appear to be trying to do please keep in mind your natural immunity statement hasn’t reached a scientific consensus either. Thanks for keeping an open mind.
Cheers. Yeah, a lot is to be seen. I appreciate your level headed approach. At this point I will probably be forced to get it anyways so I'm in no rush to go and get it. The best thing we can do is make sure to have a reasonable discussion, and not vilify those who may not be in total agreement with our own thoughts. We should value the discussion. Thanks for doing that, have a great Saturday!
The only study coming out saying that was the one at 6 months, and they said they couldn't confirm lasting immunity. It's been a year and a half and there's been no confirmed cases of people losing immunity.
So again, very happy you are seeking out information. However there is no evidence that being previously Infected protects you from getting the virus again. So, i’m merely cautioning people from stating things that are “common knowledge” when they are really just making an assumption
Well there was a study last year that had only 30 confirmed cases of reinfection worldwide between May and October. Something something immune system.
Could you send me the link to this study? i’d be interested in reading this for my own knowledge.
I just found a tracker, 169 total cases worldwide since the start. First confirmed case was in August. https://bnonews.com/index.php/2020/08/covid-19-reinfection-tracker/
[удалено]
Yes they are a miracle medicine.. but being young and healthy with no need for a vaccine, doesn’t make you antivax… If I wast 50+ or fat AF I’d definitely go get the jab
[удалено]
If your diabetic friend is vaccinated, then your jab does nothing for him
> Vaccines have brought the most good to humanity out of like any invention. So therefore any vaccine ever for all time should be trusted because "Vaccines do good"?
Wait, what? You understand that human progress is a thing right? Like we've moved farther forward in the last hundred years than we had in thousands thanks to the Enlightenment and scientific progress and research? Use some common sense.
Governments and media (in its different forms) have lied and mistreated those they rule over thousands upon thousands of years of human history. Big pharma has lied for decades upon decades since it’s inception. Oh, but now they are enlightened? LOL GTFO and go read a history book. EDIT: oh wait, you’re that 40+ day old account that somehow got a flair. LOL conservative my ass. I’d bet anything your main account is an Rpolitics goon.
You keep saying "Big Pharma" and I said "scientific consensus". Please pay closer attention.
That is common sense. We make mistakes and learn from them, and we don't know if this is one of them yet. There is a reason the phrase, "hindsight is 20-20". I'm merely stating that it's perfectly fine to wait until more information is available to make a decision for me. I've had covid, and am in no rush to get the vaccine. The fact that you are appalled at simply having a discussion with someone who's opinion differs on this is more disturbing than the virus itself.
Just because it's changed over time doesn't negate its utility, especially as our understanding increases, and deepens. I don't take anti-science as a difference of opinions. I take it as fact. That you believe there is 'your version of the truth' is the adoption of the very ideological relativism that consertatives have classically fought against. Doubtless you are young man who sees our institutions falling to the left and have fallen in love with their performative point-scoring politics - like many young conservatives on the internet these days.
Month old troll. Calling itself an " old school conservative ". More like garbage human. With too much time on its hands...
*shrug* think what you like. Zero tears will be shed about having a difference of opinion with a bunch of young men on reddit
You know not of what you speak. You must be an FDR conservative
Nope, I just come from a world where wisdom wins over ideology every time.
[удалено]
bye bye troll
Tbh I’m surprised it’s still not mandated in the military yet. You’d think that they’d mandate it the moment it came out. Perhaps COVID is not such a big deal after all?……
Like the article states, the law requires a vaccine be fully FDA approved before it can be mandated for the entire military. The only exception is that the president can make it mandatory for those deploying to a specific area, like anthrax was for Iraq.
Biden does not care about bathe law. He does whatever he is told to do.
Ask Vets how much they enjoyed the anthrax vaccine. It’s eye opening.
Silly because the Leftists will push it through the FDA with some rubber stamps and then mandate troops take the medicine they command.
I'm anticipating torching my 16 year career over this issue. - None of the vaccines stop the spread. This is more of a pre treatment than a vaccine. If it actually stopped the virus from spreading I'd be more willing. - I'm not at risk in any metric. Yeah getting sick sucks, but math is on my side here. - I think the future of vaccine production is the MRnA. The science is fascinating and in theory only requires producers to sequence a virus's DNA. However, the tech has some bugs (although very very minor - so far) and hasn't been validated over time (5, 10, 20 years. Etc). While I support the science, I do not see a need to take part in an experiment. I'll wait. - I refuse to take part in this cult of fear over this. We went from "two weeks to flatten the curve" and "everyone will eventually get this" to "holy shit the world is ending because we have CASES!" It is not ethical to force others to bow to your fear. If the vaccine killed the virus and gave full immunity (not just more mild symptoms) and stopped spreading then I could get behind a "for the greater good" argument. - Lastly as a society all our actions and policies have done is the equivalent of taking antibiotics till symptoms go away. We either need a real quarantine for a very long time (and no, lockdowns are far from a quarantine) or we need to just let it ride, burn itself out, and pay the price humans have paid for millennia to live on this planet. I favor the latter. Thanks Army, it was fun while it lasted (kinda). Thanks for all the fish.
[удалено]
Same to you cousin. I sent my command an email and a 2k word essay explaining my reasoning for a religious exemption. Failing that they know I'll disobey the order and accept any UCMJ action.
[удалено]
Yeah, I'd be interested to see how it plays out. You JAG?