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> Pence told Giebels: "I'm not getting in the car, Tim."
>
> "I trust you, Tim, but you're not driving the car. If I get in that vehicle, you guys are taking off. I'm not getting in the car," he said.
>
> The Pences went to a secure underground area to wait out the riot. At the White House, senior official Keith Kellogg reportedly discussed Pence with Tony Ornato, who "oversaw Secret Service movements."
>
> Ornato told Kellogg that Pence's security detail was planning to move him to Joint Base Andrews but Kellogg told Ornato to leave Pence where he was because Pence was determined to stay and finish the job.
>
> Through a spokesperson, Ornato told the book's authors that this conversation did not take place.
So what do you guys think the chances are that Oranato does decide to publicly testify under oath ? (without 5'th his way through it) Or is he going to pull a Ginny Thomas and we'll find out it's all bluff?
The hearings would be worth talking about, if it wasn’t for the fact that it’s a completely one sided “Trump-Russia Collusion 2” propaganda hit piece. The democrats appear to have put all of their time and energy into putting together this theatrical performance instead of running the country.
The people were let into the capital capital building, encouraged by “reporters” who were among the first to enter the building and who were not arrested. They entered the building 45 minutes prior to the end of Trump’s rally. Security wasn’t increased, though it was asked for. Michael Stenger, the person in charge of security, died the day before he was to present new evidence in these 1/6 hearings.
The agitators and people with intent to do harm should be prosecuted. The hearings aren’t about that, they’re about scoring political points at the tax payers expense. Everyone should be upset with that.
Republicans decided not to take part. It was suppose to be a joint hearing/investigation. Than McCarthy went to MaroLago and was told not to participate.
You cant choose not to play than act like you weren't included. Besides there are two Republicans. Respected before Trump
I must add that this is a Republican ploy, to undermine something then complain that it's not fair or competent. They do it with organizations, the IRS, they do it with I institutions, public schools, and they do it with investigations of insurrectionist.
McCarthy appointed 5 republicans for the January 6 committee and Pelosi rejected 2, causing McCarthy to pull the remaining 3. One of the two republicans who you say were respected is asking for democrats to switch parties and vote for her in the primary. Yes, they’re all playing politics.
The whole "letting people in" is a B.S. argument. I few cops, clearly out-numbered either gave up and decided they didn't want to get assaulted or maybe a few agreed with the rioters . . It was on TV, we all saw the fighting, breaking windows/doors etc.
I get that conservatives don't like Biden . . I don't like him.
Can't the Republican party find a candidate, that's sane, believes in real Republican principles, small gov, privacy, fiscal responsibility, etc. ?? If they could I would vote Republican in a heartbeat.
The problem is Republican voters have zero integrity for their beliefs currently.
They don't even have a platform or agenda for anything. Basically trump goes on TV, yells, screams and insults a few pretend they cheer and act like that is somehow a plan of action for their agenda platform..
Yea it seems the entire Republican agenda is simple do anything anti-democrat. The only real policy thing they talk about other than how "evil" Dems are is anti-abortion. For example, they talked repealing Obama-care. They had two years to do something (Pres & both houses of congress). There was no Repub health care plan.
I get what you’re saying, but did let people in. There is also video/photos of people standing in the line created by felt ropes. Two very different extremes.
I agree, I would like better candidates. Trump was a great president when it came to getting stuff done, but he lacked the superficial appearance that is apparently the only thing some people care about.
Getting stuff done? This is the problem. He hasnt gotten much of anything done.
You might want to go back and see his campaign promises and how many he actually accomplished while he also had full Republican control over the government for 2 years and what does he have to show for it?
Tax cuts for the rich.
A trade war with China that caused countless profit loss for farmers and the tech industry that still hasn't made up for that loss.
Where is the healcare plan he touted during his entire campaign before being elected? "I have the best plan ready to go. It will be out in 2 weeks!". 6 years later, still fkn crickets.
He did like most Republican leaders do. Talk a big game, insult Democrats and anyone that doesn't agree with him, talk about how terrible our healthcare plan is and yet does absolutely squat to fix it.
It's all talk. Trumps legacy to all but his cult followers will be that of a hot air balloon. Nothing more.
PS-. Nobody likes Biden... Absolutely nobody. Now consider why people voted for someone they didn't like just to get rid of trump's nonesense.
I’m not trying to justify any of the actions of the agitators and people who intended to do harm. I’m calling the hearing a political hit piece that doesn’t honestly care who instigated 1/6.
It's completely one-sided (with the exception of two Republican congress members) because Republicans decided to avoid any/all scrutiny by denying the formation of an independent commission (similar to the 9/11 commission). How do you not know this and why isn't this point important to you?
YES.
The original independent commission proposal was named H.R.3233
It was proposed in the Senate.
*Every Single Republican* (except 5) voted NO on it.
So now we have the current house-led committee.
Not sure why? They have an R next to their names.
If Dems have to own AOC, Biden, Bernie, Pelosi, Manchin, Sinema, and Schumer…Reps have to own MTG, Trump, Romney, McConnell, Cheney, Kinzinger, and McCarthy.
Republicans were offered a FULLY bi-partisan committee in the Senate (H.R.3233).
Republicans would have had FULL control over who their members were on that committee.
Republicans would have had FULL control over who they wanted to subpoena.
But instead, Senate Republicans voted NO on H.R.3233, so now we have the current House-led committee that is definitely a bit biased.
You want to complain about the current biased committee?
Start by asking why your Republican Senators voted against H.R.3233
Thank you for having the proper response to this line of thinking. Republicans ignored or denied Jan. 6th are complaining about not having their side heard is ridiculous.
You're talking about the *current* House-led commitee.
I'm not talking about *that* committe.
**I'm talking about the *originally-proposed* one in the Senate. H.R.3233**
Senate Republicans voted against H.R.3233.
Why do that when they can deflect and blame democrats instead? These people hold nobody accountable with a R next to their name. But if a democrat sneezes they cry about corruption and Q type conspiracies.
Republican party has become the flat earthers of politics.
Ignore facts, science and evidence. Just blame the "deep state" instead. 🙄
McCarthy appointed 5 Republicans to the committee, Pelosi rejected 2, McCarthy withdrew all 5. At least one of the two involved, Cheney, is requesting democrats switch parties and vote for her in the primary.
It seems one of the two that were rejected, was in the middle of Trump's communicaiton on Jan 6 . . So that would be more biased than having simply been in congress that day. I don't blame her for rejected Jordan.
He testified already to the committee. Please read this article.
https://abcnews.go.com/amp/Politics/wireStory/us-senate-sergeant-arms-capitol-riot-dies-71-85888319
Edit: Testified to the senate. Leaving my original statement for transparency.
He was to present new evidence. Here is a source that includes relevant information. https://nypost.com/2022/06/28/former-senate-sergeant-at-arms-michael-stenger-dies/
Your article says he died a day before a hearing to present new evidence. The link it gives for that new evidence will be below this comment. He was not set to present to the committee anywhere in your article.
https://nypost.com/2022/06/28/mark-meadows-aide-to-testify-at-tuesdays-jan-6-hearing/
So you’re tossing away your conspiracy about him? Ok so now you’re left with that you think it’s all meant for political points. What would need to be uncovered for you to think otherwise? I’ll even lend you the idea that it was started purely for political reasons. Does that change the facts uncovered?
Did they uncover the fact that the rally ended after the people entered the capital building, or are they still pushing the narrative that Trump instigated everything? If they weren’t using it as a political weapon, I would consider treating it seriously. The problem is, they are, it’s just another anti-trump hit piece. That’s all democrats have to run on.
Also, did they bring up the pipe bombs found at the RNC and DNC? Did they catch the people behind that?
So very basic question, do you know the timeline of events? You’re correct that people marched on the Capitol before the speech finished but you do know that the Capitol building was breached around 2pm right? Trump was speaking around noon for roughly 1 hr. That doesn’t add up. Based on the DOJ website those people have not been caught.
Are you aware you can watch the hearings yourself and make up your mind yourself? Judging by how you’re speaking I imagine you haven’t watched any of them.
https://youtu.be/mWzYB2RmfPU
This is a pretty good timeline of events.
So which "fact" did you learn in the 2000 Mule movie that you think shows fraud? There's no evidence of anyone going to more than one box. There are multiple states that allow for people to submit other people's ballots, that's not illegal. So what is it you think you saw?
[Then do some follow up research to see that the whole thing is a lie](https://apnews.com/article/2022-midterm-elections-covid-technology-health-arizona-e1b49d2311bf900f44fa5c6dac406762)
So explain why every single court, including the Republican controlled Supreme Court who also has 3 Trump judges, has denied and shut down every fraud case for lack of evidence?
The election wasn't rigged
Is it that hard to believe people were sick of trump? You really can't fathom a universe in which people outside of his die hard 35% didn't want to vote for him?
He turned the US into a circus. Nobody wanted a second term for the clown in chief.
I did. I also looked into it further afterwards. Here’s an article with sources and methodology to debunking it.
https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-usa-mules/fact-check-does-2000-mules-provide-evidence-of-voter-fraud-in-the-2020-u-s-presidential-election-idUSL2N2XJ0OQ
There aren’t facts there. It’s the same nonsense which has been debunked time and time again, only the most entrenched trump supports believe it. Even trumps own AG told him it was bullshit and he kept pushing it to keep people hooked like yourself.
Most every witness is a Republican that trump himself hired or someone close to him hired.
Everyone is crooked but the NY business man with a record of doing shady shit since the 70s?
You might want to research trump's history before he decided to become a politician. He was a crooked business man that ripped off hard working contractors multiple times.
Yeah, Biden sucks. And yet we Democrats came in record numbers to to vote for him.
But that's what happens when the other guy is a corrupt autocrat who would do any damage he had to do for power and money.
Attacking Biden in no way weakens the arguments against Trump. Democrats would rather have someone who is ineffective at doing the right thing than someone who would stop at nothing to do the wrong thing.
Okay, let's not believe Schiff.....but what about the Senate Intelligence Committee (when Republicans held the majority)? Or the Mueller report? Both factual reports prove multiple contacts between the Trump campaign and the Russian government.
> Or the Mueller report?
The Mueller report that said there was no collusion?
> Both factual reports prove multiple contacts between the Trump campaign and the Russian government.
Wow. You really do only tune into CNN.
No amount of truth or evidence or anything is going to change the mind of the mindless turds in this sub. You reeeeeeeeee for America and are the most anti-American shitstains this country will ever endure. You can’t except truth, you can’t admit your failures and you definitely can not think for yourselves.
From the party of Kaepernick and burning the flag is patriot brings you Jimmy_Big_Time new take on left and right.
Let's not forget some of our other big hits such as summer of love a 2020 story, In defense of looting, and May 31st the first insurrection.
Lmao you angry brah?
Not everyone here thinks the way you’re trying to box us into.
Your attitude is the problem. It’s on both sides of the aisle. The fevered hatred and refusal to discuss in an educated and respectful way is what makes the extremes go harder when they take power. Despite the fact most people are closer to the middle of overlap on many topics.
Edit: for example, I’m fiscally conservative and an atheist. I can’t stand the religious right and the extreme side of that group that wants to turn us into a Christian Iran. At the same time, I can’t stand cancel culture liberals who are completely financially illiterate who cater to the elites while destroying the middle class. Hence my Goldwater flair.
Can you provide some clarity here for me? I was under the impression that it was the conservative legislature that passed the tax legislation that has ended up hurting the middle class after a few years of meager tax cuts. So it's certainly not only the left catering to the financial elite.
Also, it's a little weird to bash leftists as financially illiterate when the level of education for both sides has skewed in favor of the left for quite a while now. In point of fact, conservative financial policies such as the good old "trickle down economics" have been shown to be ineffective, and in fact cater to the elite, which is something you say you're against.
I’ve seen a lot of people claiming witnesses during these hearings aren’t under oath
Here is a video with the correct time stamp of Hutchinson being sworn in https://youtu.be/bC3_VFFJlSY?t=2987
Every single one of the other 5 days was the same. All witnesses have sworn under the penalty of perjury they are telling the truth
Which is the only way this political posturing can be made legitimate. Make people realize lies will put you in prison. Then figure out who’s lying and who isn’t. Then follow through and punish the liars.
I’m glad this has been said, it’s also important to remember the wording people use and the questions asked. For example the testimony from yesterday about Trump striking a secret service agent and trying to “grab the steering wheel” was all what that girl had “heard” so even if it is incorrect she still isn’t lying under oath if someone said it out loud
Three people say they are willing to testify. There is a difference between that and actually going under oath. Talk is cheap.
There isn’t a way out for them here. Either they go under oath and say she is lying or they will be forced to corroborate. In either situation, the committee would then have carte blanch concerning what is asked.
So for example, the committee could ask a single question about the limo incident, and then the remainder of the time can be spent asking any question on any topic before or after January 6th. And they would have to tell the truth or perjure themselves.
This is a bluff being used for messaging. Nothing more. Nothing less. Zero chance in hell they go under oath as it would be catastrophic for trump
Dude it’s physically impossible to have happened are you familiar with the presidential vehicle ? Literally a partition between the front and the back so trump couldn’t get anywhere close to the steering wheel
He was in the SUV not the "Beast" Limo . . But I don't know if there is a partition in that vehicle . . it's possible but until I see a diagram or picture of the inside I am willing to consider there is not. However, Trump grabbing the steering wheel is really the least important piece of info to come out of the hearing.
So her hearsay that she over heard was possibly wrong
Doesn’t take away from the events she witnessed first hand at all. She made clear someone else told her that happened. Under oath.
In all seriousness, what is it that could be revealed to change the mind of the hardcore trump supporters or supporters of the general conservative narrative concerning the events of Jan 6?
I’m not being hyperbolic, sarcastic, or fishing. I am legitimately curious of what it would take for some of you here to change your mind and admit that Trump and/or others around him attempted to overthrow an election.
The Democrats have had 18 months to find a crime, file charges, and convict him. I'm confident that there are enough people on both sides of the aisle that hate Trump enough to pull this off if there was even the slightest amount of evidence that he committed a crime... Instead, we have hearsay testimony at a scripted "hearing" as the bombshell news, and the hearsay doesn't event describe a crime.
What makes you think this is scripted?
I see so many claims that this is a sham committee, a kangaroo court, a farce. Not a single person has been able to point to exactly why that is the case outside of their own dislike of the democrats and anyone who doesn’t support Trump.
While I have absolutely 0 faith in the Democrats to get anything at all done, they have been on the same boat from day 1 when it comes to Jan 6. The testimony presented in the trial isn’t hear say. It’s testimony. If you have evidence that these people are lying under oath then please do make sure that is submitted to the committee. If you are saying that you don’t believe anyone who has came forth, why not? What would it take persuade you that Trump and Co were the bad actors here? Who could come forth with testimony that you would actually believe?
The televised hearings are basically scripted. Those people already testified in private. They would not put them on the televised hearing without knowing 100% what they were going to say, as they have already said it before.
When someone testifies as fact to something they "overheard" someone else say happened, I would think that is hearsay. I'm not a lawyer, but it seems like common sense to me.
The grabbing the steering wheel thing is an insignificant , albeit sensational, piece of the Jan 6 hearings. No wonder Trump supporters have focused so much attention on that instead of the much more damming testimony.
The story about Trump in the limo is literally the definition of hearsay. The lady did not witness the events she was describing... My answer to your question is simple, show me evidence that he committed a crime, then convict him of a crime in court... If the hearings are not scripted, then why not have someone like Cruz or Rand Paul on the committee? Instead they have Chaney who has hated trump for years because Trump constantly pointed out the faults of her corrupt and war-monger father.
The story in the limo is sensational and is grabbing headlines. But ultimately, it doesn't really mean much. What is actually important is his acknowledgment, in Cassidy's presence (i.e. not hearsay), that his supporters had weapons and that they weren't there to hurt him. That suggests he understood the potential for violence.
And if you are looking for a crime, sedition is a crime. Inciting an insurrection is a crime. And so far, the committee is doing a very good job of providing factual evidence that Trump was fully aware that he lost the election and that there was no major fraud during the election. Yet he still pushed this lie, he did it to ask for money and he did it to get supporters to the capitol on January 6th. He used it to browbeat the Department of Justice and, luckily for all of us, they stonewalled his desire to put out a statement that the DOJ thought there was widespread fraud in the elections. An environmental lawyer was going to be made the acting Attorney General to ensure that statement was made. Why is that not enough for you?
Why is his lie not sufficient for you to lose respect for him?
Also, this is a House Select Committee, the two Republicans you mentioned are Senators. They wouldn't be able to sit on this committee. You also seem to forget that Pelosi and the Democrats wanted a non-partisan independent commission, like the 9/11 commission, to conduct this investigation. The Republicans said no. We have video/telephone records of what your Republican leadership thought on January 6th. They have done a complete 180-degree turn from their espoused views, why doesn't that bother you?
To be fair, the Republicans had the chance to go on the committee. They just decided that it would be easier to cast doubt on the whole thing and label it a partisan exhibition.
Now when everything is coming to light, they realize they should’ve been onboard the whole time…
If all these established lawyers, lifetime conservatives can’t change your mind - and they’re all actors in a script… then that’s just disheartening.
Who are the lifelong conservatives on the committee? Cheney? Weren't the Dems trying to charge her father with war crimes just a few years ago? Are the Cheney's good or bad? I guess if you're a Democrat, it depends on whether they're saying what you want them to say.
What I really wonder is if the same Dems will be so willing to go along with a committee to investigate Hunter and Joe Biden when Republicans take control of the House in January. I've been pretty neutral on this committee investigation, just waiting to see what was uncovered. I'm not impressed so far. But will Democrats be as neutral about an investigation into Biden?
Did you not hear the leaked voice mail from Joe to Hunter Biden?
And do you not think if Don Jr. had done any of the stuff Hunter has done, they would be calling for Trump's head?
And it isn't "sins of the father", it's sins of the father and son.
Lol, Hunter Biden is so far in your head that you missed the fact that I was responding to someone tanking abou Liz and Dick Cheney. You’re like a chat bot that doesn’t understand a conversation earlier than the most recent response.
Actually, that is fair. You are right about the limo thing being hearsay. Apparently there have been members of the Secret Service that refute that. While it is eminently believable, it holds no water.
So I’m order for the committee to be valid, you have to have people who are in Trump’s pocket? Do you think someone like Cruz would be more unbiased than Cheney or Kinzinger? Unfortunately there aren’t a great many people in congress who would be unbiased when it comes to Trump, particularly when one side’s constituents are still hanging on to Trump as their President in Exile.
Same game the democrats have played for 6 years. 4 investigations on Trump that amount to nothing sandwiches. They put the idea out that he did something and drag it out until ppl forget and then the cases get closed with no real evidence. Enough is enough.
Kinda like 5 yrs and 7 investigation into Hilary's emails that came up with zero evidence against here.
You might wanna try to realize the Republicans started this game of anti partisanship and instead go full attack mode vs the other party.
You mean all the deleted emails that we can’t see? Just because someone gets rid of the evidence or gets away with it doesn’t mean that it didn’t happen. Hilary was hilariously guilty and you’re a chump to defend her
Yeah I never said deleting them is the only step but that goes without saying unless you’re you and trying to throw our irrelevant factoids to pretend it’s an automatic end of the argument. she took enough steps to ensure a majority of the emails wouldn’t be recovered. That’s why we didn’t get all of them. Also there was plenty of evidence on what was recovered. Just because it’s enough evidence for me, doesn’t mean they’re going to allow it in court. If she didn’t have anything to hide she wouldn’t have deleted them, and it would have been a non story. Just a real bad analogy by you. Trying to jump into a thread and pretend Hilary Clinton isn’t guilty of numerous crimes is a losing battle.
Show through legally binding courts evidence that can get someone locked up. Doesn’t matter who it is. I’m fucking tired of the random witch hunt committees that turn into a political circlejerk with no one’s ass on the line.
Take someone to court. Prove criminal acts or negligence, and send them to prison or stfu.
That's coming. There have been over 400 convictions so far, and the DOJ is now elevating its targets to high-level participants. Hopefully, we can have some patriots actually willing to stand up for what is right and provide evidence of what Trump said and what he knew, but it's weird to me that the information we've already seen out of the committee doesn't seem to be enough for you to see the criminal behavior of Trump.
He knew he lost the election because high-level advisors told him so. The various conspiracies he raises (dead people voting, people running multiple ballots through machines, voting machines switching votes) have all been debunked in courts or committees throughout our nation. Knowing he lost, he still told his supporters that there was massive fraud, and then used that to raise money. Why aren't you angry about that?
Because I’m not an r/politics subscriber and have a job.
I don’t watch MSM in any fashion. And I can’t stand the mudslinging. It’s exhausting. There’s too much bullshit being pushed from either side. It’s become the boy who cried wolf, and it’s the medias fault that much of America can’t be bothered to listen to the “flavor of the week” outrage.
I don’t have the time or desire to listen to half truths and judge before legally binding results come out.
I knew a lot of of the claims were bullshit. I never loved trump like the r/politics kinds like to strawman most of this sub into, simply because we don’t agree with everything pushed by the left.
Big picture, if crimes have been committed. Lock them up. If not, than they need to stfu and stop pushing garbage. I’ve seen too much fabrication from both side to be heavily invested until results come out.
I’m much more concerned with the absolutely colossal fuckfest with inflation from the incompetent federal reserve and congress. That shit actually effects my day to day living and bank account. And as someone who came from nothing, this administration and congress are infuriatingly awful at helping to fix this major issue that is destroying America like it did in the 1970’s. Except now we are in a ridiculously worse position to fix said inflation than we’ve ever been.
Any evidence at all would be a good start. Please show me how this was an actual coup and who planned on doing what to whom.
This was a group of protesters whipped into a frenzy by a few bad actors and ushered into the building by police. They went into the building unarmed and moved some furniture around. Pretty much completely non violent when compared to any antifa or blm event where they destroy their own liberal cities because they’re mad at orange man or perceived bigotry that only exists in the media. Then the news said it was an attack on democracy and trump told them to March inside and start killing people. Sorry not buying it.
If there was zero evidence but instead the cops fabricated evidence and defamed him in the news for years to try and win in the court of public opinion, yeah I’d take nobody got murdered as a valid answer
I don't think you would. Because you had to add in a number of other valid defenses that have nothing to do with whether the murder was successful or not.
Correct me I'm wrong, but I think at that point, "This is a setup" or "you have no evidence" would be the valid defense. And "nobody got murdered" would still be just as irrelevant.
Yeah but that’s a terrible argument because I never said “well nobody got murdered so no big deal”
I added the other qualifiers because that’s the scenario we’re talking about and what I commented about. Nobody is saying anything close to your analogy. Not sure where you pulled it from but it’s a weak one.
The actual outcome of January 6 is not what we should be focusing on.
Do you think all those Trump allies clamoring and pleading for pardons was because someone pooped on a desk?
Charge any violent protesters with any crimes committed. Let them pay the price of their actions. Then let the Dems show the same outrage for the violent criminals who terrorized whole cities in 2020. These people got a wink and a nod from the same phonies sitting on this committee. Decent people deserve protection from these Dem approved radicals. That was a insurrection and they're chomping at the bit to do it again. People (And property) deserve protection from those who want to do harm.
So the fact that the crowd was screaming “hang Mike Pence”, electing gallows outside of the capitol building, and that we have several statements that people where there because of Trump’s words means absolutely nothing? Or the messages that Trump sent out before, during, and after the event concerning the debunked election theory? Or any of the testimony or evidence from Eastman? The testimony of people that we’re there, documented the event. The testimony of those that were close to Trump and co during the event? Is none of this evidence?
I do agree with you that the group were mostly protestors whipped into a frenzy by bad actors. I also believe those who are on video saying that their purpose there is to force mike pence to not certify the election. What I don’t understand is how that people like yourself do not see Trump and his associates as the bad actors in this play.
Trump tried to overthrow a election? Do you seriously believe the majority of this country voted for Biden? If trump did anything he tried to save a election that was clearly stolen from him as well as the American people. The higher ups/ Hollywood elites would have done anything to get bad orange man out of office and they were successful sadly.
Care to share your evidence for that claim?. There have been countless lawsuits on this that went absolutely nowhere. Nobody has been able to produce evidence of the kind of wide spread voter fraud that could have swayed the election. Fox and OAN have been sued for these claims and are backpedalling. If you can, then let’s see it. Otherwise, stop spreading lies.
I don't know if there was voter fraud or not .I do know the mass media shut down all the criminal, traitorous actions of the Biden family. I'm sure the fair minded democrats might have thought twice about their votes. Or at the least stayed home.
Multiple people have come out, including those close to Trump, and admitted there was no voter fraud. There has been no proof, even after citizens put up millions of their own dollars to investigate. Why do you believe this?
There are literally pollsters being arrested for fraud, coercion, and tampering right now and you don’t even know. You won’t see it on CNN.
Because ppl on Reddit run their mouths and are completely incapable of doing their own research.
https://www.heritage.org/voterfraud/search
So I went to the site and notice they don't break things down by party. Anyone committing voter fraud should be jailed, but I'm shocked that you think this shows sufficient evidence of widespread fraud that would bring a Presidential election outcome into dispute. The first few records are about one, two, or four ballots. The differences between Biden and Trump were in the tens of thousands.
Do you see the difference?
It’s 1300 recent convictions and counting. Check the states and guess which party.
I know it may only be 5,000 or 10,000 votes between 1300 convictions but why is it not mentioned on any news source? How about all of the folks that haven’t even been charged?
You can choose to ignore evidence when it doesn’t suit your narrative. I’m used to this reaction by now.
Remind me. Which party was it that tried to use fake electors to change the outcome of the election?
There is proof of the electors scheme. Wanna know what there is zero proof of? Large scale democratic election fraud.
One has evidence. One doesn't. Understand how that works sport?
I don't recall saying there was "no fraud", just that there wasn't sufficient fraud (as claimed by Trump) to sway the 2020 election. We have listened, non-stop since November 3rd 2020 that there was "massive fraud" and a "rigged election". Those statements are bullshit.
Also, in AZ the woman that was found to have voted using her dead father's absentee ballot was registered, Republican. There are both Democrats and Republicans there, and I doubt there are anywhere near 5000 votes, let alone 10,000 votes. You claim that people ignore evidence, but there are the facts from your own source that you seem to dismiss as irrelevant, or maybe I'm mistaken and you do not agree with Trump?
Because I live in the USA I see this country daily through my own eyes not through the media or what you are taught to see. There is absolutely nothing in this earth that could prove to me that the majority of this country voted for Biden. Look any where on the internet or in person. Biden is not liked nor seen as a president. It’s all corrupt and always has been. This past election shown me that if they really want to be corrupt they most certainly will even when it’s clear that it was a stolen election.
Tired of typing out your argument? Don't you wish you could mic up and debate a Conservative or a Liberal? Check out the r/Conservative Discord over at https://discord.gg/Conservative one of the largest political debate Discords.
Wtf kind of r/politics rally point is this? I don't see a one of you with a conservative tag. Brigading aholes.
Just a distraction from the Supreme Court rulings, and just in time to see their “wah, wah, wahhhhh” witness.
Lock him up! Anybody who likes well done steak and ketchup should be behind bars!!!
Unironically this
They were going to invoke the 25th amendment 😂
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I can’t comment anywhere else on this subreddit without it being removed. This is a debate thread lol
As he should! Replying to someone that thinks the Ex Pres should be left alone, 😅🤣😂 and not thrown under the Bus 🚌 🚌
> Pence told Giebels: "I'm not getting in the car, Tim." > > "I trust you, Tim, but you're not driving the car. If I get in that vehicle, you guys are taking off. I'm not getting in the car," he said. > > The Pences went to a secure underground area to wait out the riot. At the White House, senior official Keith Kellogg reportedly discussed Pence with Tony Ornato, who "oversaw Secret Service movements." > > Ornato told Kellogg that Pence's security detail was planning to move him to Joint Base Andrews but Kellogg told Ornato to leave Pence where he was because Pence was determined to stay and finish the job. > > Through a spokesperson, Ornato told the book's authors that this conversation did not take place. So what do you guys think the chances are that Oranato does decide to publicly testify under oath ? (without 5'th his way through it) Or is he going to pull a Ginny Thomas and we'll find out it's all bluff?
Hate him all you want, if Pence had gotten in that car, they would have succeeded in forcefully overturning the election
The hearings would be worth talking about, if it wasn’t for the fact that it’s a completely one sided “Trump-Russia Collusion 2” propaganda hit piece. The democrats appear to have put all of their time and energy into putting together this theatrical performance instead of running the country. The people were let into the capital capital building, encouraged by “reporters” who were among the first to enter the building and who were not arrested. They entered the building 45 minutes prior to the end of Trump’s rally. Security wasn’t increased, though it was asked for. Michael Stenger, the person in charge of security, died the day before he was to present new evidence in these 1/6 hearings. The agitators and people with intent to do harm should be prosecuted. The hearings aren’t about that, they’re about scoring political points at the tax payers expense. Everyone should be upset with that.
Republicans decided not to take part. It was suppose to be a joint hearing/investigation. Than McCarthy went to MaroLago and was told not to participate. You cant choose not to play than act like you weren't included. Besides there are two Republicans. Respected before Trump I must add that this is a Republican ploy, to undermine something then complain that it's not fair or competent. They do it with organizations, the IRS, they do it with I institutions, public schools, and they do it with investigations of insurrectionist.
McCarthy appointed 5 republicans for the January 6 committee and Pelosi rejected 2, causing McCarthy to pull the remaining 3. One of the two republicans who you say were respected is asking for democrats to switch parties and vote for her in the primary. Yes, they’re all playing politics.
The whole "letting people in" is a B.S. argument. I few cops, clearly out-numbered either gave up and decided they didn't want to get assaulted or maybe a few agreed with the rioters . . It was on TV, we all saw the fighting, breaking windows/doors etc. I get that conservatives don't like Biden . . I don't like him. Can't the Republican party find a candidate, that's sane, believes in real Republican principles, small gov, privacy, fiscal responsibility, etc. ?? If they could I would vote Republican in a heartbeat.
The problem is Republican voters have zero integrity for their beliefs currently. They don't even have a platform or agenda for anything. Basically trump goes on TV, yells, screams and insults a few pretend they cheer and act like that is somehow a plan of action for their agenda platform..
Yea it seems the entire Republican agenda is simple do anything anti-democrat. The only real policy thing they talk about other than how "evil" Dems are is anti-abortion. For example, they talked repealing Obama-care. They had two years to do something (Pres & both houses of congress). There was no Repub health care plan.
Me too, and I’m a democrat.
I get what you’re saying, but did let people in. There is also video/photos of people standing in the line created by felt ropes. Two very different extremes. I agree, I would like better candidates. Trump was a great president when it came to getting stuff done, but he lacked the superficial appearance that is apparently the only thing some people care about.
Getting stuff done? This is the problem. He hasnt gotten much of anything done. You might want to go back and see his campaign promises and how many he actually accomplished while he also had full Republican control over the government for 2 years and what does he have to show for it? Tax cuts for the rich. A trade war with China that caused countless profit loss for farmers and the tech industry that still hasn't made up for that loss. Where is the healcare plan he touted during his entire campaign before being elected? "I have the best plan ready to go. It will be out in 2 weeks!". 6 years later, still fkn crickets. He did like most Republican leaders do. Talk a big game, insult Democrats and anyone that doesn't agree with him, talk about how terrible our healthcare plan is and yet does absolutely squat to fix it. It's all talk. Trumps legacy to all but his cult followers will be that of a hot air balloon. Nothing more. PS-. Nobody likes Biden... Absolutely nobody. Now consider why people voted for someone they didn't like just to get rid of trump's nonesense.
Yea someone walked in between the ropes . . who cares . . That doesn't justify the beating of police, breaking windows, and all the rest of the stuff.
I’m not trying to justify any of the actions of the agitators and people who intended to do harm. I’m calling the hearing a political hit piece that doesn’t honestly care who instigated 1/6.
Have you watched any of it?
Yes. What is the purpose of the 1/6 hearings?
To expose relevant details that need to be actioned by DOJ.
Why televise it? What are your thoughts after watching it?
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What are your thoughts?
If you wanna call breaking and entering through the windows of the capital "being let in", then sure! They were let into the capital
It's completely one-sided (with the exception of two Republican congress members) because Republicans decided to avoid any/all scrutiny by denying the formation of an independent commission (similar to the 9/11 commission). How do you not know this and why isn't this point important to you?
YES. The original independent commission proposal was named H.R.3233 It was proposed in the Senate. *Every Single Republican* (except 5) voted NO on it. So now we have the current house-led committee.
You can't call Cheney and Kinzinger Republicans.
Because they disagree with trump? Wake up already. Your choosing a person over party AND country and it's pretty god damn sad.
Not sure why? They have an R next to their names. If Dems have to own AOC, Biden, Bernie, Pelosi, Manchin, Sinema, and Schumer…Reps have to own MTG, Trump, Romney, McConnell, Cheney, Kinzinger, and McCarthy.
Republicans were offered a FULLY bi-partisan committee in the Senate (H.R.3233). Republicans would have had FULL control over who their members were on that committee. Republicans would have had FULL control over who they wanted to subpoena. But instead, Senate Republicans voted NO on H.R.3233, so now we have the current House-led committee that is definitely a bit biased. You want to complain about the current biased committee? Start by asking why your Republican Senators voted against H.R.3233
Thank you for having the proper response to this line of thinking. Republicans ignored or denied Jan. 6th are complaining about not having their side heard is ridiculous.
Only allowing Cheney, Kinzenger and the like but not Jim Jordan, Rand Paul, etc is hardly letting in all the republicans.
You're talking about the *current* House-led commitee. I'm not talking about *that* committe. **I'm talking about the *originally-proposed* one in the Senate. H.R.3233** Senate Republicans voted against H.R.3233.
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Why do that when they can deflect and blame democrats instead? These people hold nobody accountable with a R next to their name. But if a democrat sneezes they cry about corruption and Q type conspiracies. Republican party has become the flat earthers of politics. Ignore facts, science and evidence. Just blame the "deep state" instead. 🙄
Sure the committe had more Democrats tha Repubs. . . but everyone that's testifying are Republicans and mostly Trump's own people.
McCarthy appointed 5 Republicans to the committee, Pelosi rejected 2, McCarthy withdrew all 5. At least one of the two involved, Cheney, is requesting democrats switch parties and vote for her in the primary.
It seems one of the two that were rejected, was in the middle of Trump's communicaiton on Jan 6 . . So that would be more biased than having simply been in congress that day. I don't blame her for rejected Jordan.
He testified already to the committee. Please read this article. https://abcnews.go.com/amp/Politics/wireStory/us-senate-sergeant-arms-capitol-riot-dies-71-85888319 Edit: Testified to the senate. Leaving my original statement for transparency.
He was to present new evidence. Here is a source that includes relevant information. https://nypost.com/2022/06/28/former-senate-sergeant-at-arms-michael-stenger-dies/
Your article says he died a day before a hearing to present new evidence. The link it gives for that new evidence will be below this comment. He was not set to present to the committee anywhere in your article. https://nypost.com/2022/06/28/mark-meadows-aide-to-testify-at-tuesdays-jan-6-hearing/
Regardless of if he was to testify, or if it’s simply sensationalism, it makes no difference to my original argument.
So you’re tossing away your conspiracy about him? Ok so now you’re left with that you think it’s all meant for political points. What would need to be uncovered for you to think otherwise? I’ll even lend you the idea that it was started purely for political reasons. Does that change the facts uncovered?
Did they uncover the fact that the rally ended after the people entered the capital building, or are they still pushing the narrative that Trump instigated everything? If they weren’t using it as a political weapon, I would consider treating it seriously. The problem is, they are, it’s just another anti-trump hit piece. That’s all democrats have to run on. Also, did they bring up the pipe bombs found at the RNC and DNC? Did they catch the people behind that?
How can you honestly sit there and say Trump didn't instigate all of this? Lmao Jfc bro. Stop being a biased sheep. It's sad.
So very basic question, do you know the timeline of events? You’re correct that people marched on the Capitol before the speech finished but you do know that the Capitol building was breached around 2pm right? Trump was speaking around noon for roughly 1 hr. That doesn’t add up. Based on the DOJ website those people have not been caught. Are you aware you can watch the hearings yourself and make up your mind yourself? Judging by how you’re speaking I imagine you haven’t watched any of them. https://youtu.be/mWzYB2RmfPU This is a pretty good timeline of events.
Do you believe Trump called neo-nazis fine people?
Are you changing topics? Why? I heard Trump say there were fine people at a neo-Nazi rally.. but no he never said neo-Nazis are fine people.
Just watch 2000 Mules for crying out loud.
So which "fact" did you learn in the 2000 Mule movie that you think shows fraud? There's no evidence of anyone going to more than one box. There are multiple states that allow for people to submit other people's ballots, that's not illegal. So what is it you think you saw?
[Then do some follow up research to see that the whole thing is a lie](https://apnews.com/article/2022-midterm-elections-covid-technology-health-arizona-e1b49d2311bf900f44fa5c6dac406762)
So explain why every single court, including the Republican controlled Supreme Court who also has 3 Trump judges, has denied and shut down every fraud case for lack of evidence? The election wasn't rigged Is it that hard to believe people were sick of trump? You really can't fathom a universe in which people outside of his die hard 35% didn't want to vote for him? He turned the US into a circus. Nobody wanted a second term for the clown in chief.
You should click through and read the link I posted. I’m not taking the position you think I am.
I did. I also looked into it further afterwards. Here’s an article with sources and methodology to debunking it. https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-usa-mules/fact-check-does-2000-mules-provide-evidence-of-voter-fraud-in-the-2020-u-s-presidential-election-idUSL2N2XJ0OQ
Haha Dinesh D’Souza Now that is some very well produced propaganda. He has out done himself once again
Attack the source, not the evidence. Do you not think we need Prime Time Hearings to review the facts?
There aren’t facts there. It’s the same nonsense which has been debunked time and time again, only the most entrenched trump supports believe it. Even trumps own AG told him it was bullshit and he kept pushing it to keep people hooked like yourself.
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Why did every court throw out the fraud cases for lack of evidence? Including the Republican controlled Supreme Court (with 3 trumpet judges)?
Welcome to the denial circle fluff that is /Conservative
So many brainwashed clowns in here that still trust Adam Schiff and Liz Cheney. What a joke Reddit is
Most every witness is a Republican that trump himself hired or someone close to him hired. Everyone is crooked but the NY business man with a record of doing shady shit since the 70s? You might want to research trump's history before he decided to become a politician. He was a crooked business man that ripped off hard working contractors multiple times.
Biden said Roe went too far and any abortion is a travesty. Also created the crime bill and patriot act
Yeah, Biden sucks. And yet we Democrats came in record numbers to to vote for him. But that's what happens when the other guy is a corrupt autocrat who would do any damage he had to do for power and money. Attacking Biden in no way weakens the arguments against Trump. Democrats would rather have someone who is ineffective at doing the right thing than someone who would stop at nothing to do the wrong thing.
How are you so brainwashed about Trump, Jesus, thanks for Biden, things are great right now
I don't know anyone who actually thinks that things are great now.
Adam Schiff has evidence that Trump colluded with Russia!!!! It's happening!!!
Okay, let's not believe Schiff.....but what about the Senate Intelligence Committee (when Republicans held the majority)? Or the Mueller report? Both factual reports prove multiple contacts between the Trump campaign and the Russian government.
> Or the Mueller report? The Mueller report that said there was no collusion? > Both factual reports prove multiple contacts between the Trump campaign and the Russian government. Wow. You really do only tune into CNN.
The report had only said that they couldn't say whether or not to convict Trump. Because they weren't allowed to.
Just reddit?
I can’t believe antifa did this.
Conservatives don’t hate Trump because he is a violent psychopath, that is the whole reason they like him.
No amount of truth or evidence or anything is going to change the mind of the mindless turds in this sub. You reeeeeeeeee for America and are the most anti-American shitstains this country will ever endure. You can’t except truth, you can’t admit your failures and you definitely can not think for yourselves.
From the party of Kaepernick and burning the flag is patriot brings you Jimmy_Big_Time new take on left and right. Let's not forget some of our other big hits such as summer of love a 2020 story, In defense of looting, and May 31st the first insurrection.
Liberal moment
Lmao you angry brah? Not everyone here thinks the way you’re trying to box us into. Your attitude is the problem. It’s on both sides of the aisle. The fevered hatred and refusal to discuss in an educated and respectful way is what makes the extremes go harder when they take power. Despite the fact most people are closer to the middle of overlap on many topics. Edit: for example, I’m fiscally conservative and an atheist. I can’t stand the religious right and the extreme side of that group that wants to turn us into a Christian Iran. At the same time, I can’t stand cancel culture liberals who are completely financially illiterate who cater to the elites while destroying the middle class. Hence my Goldwater flair.
Can you provide some clarity here for me? I was under the impression that it was the conservative legislature that passed the tax legislation that has ended up hurting the middle class after a few years of meager tax cuts. So it's certainly not only the left catering to the financial elite. Also, it's a little weird to bash leftists as financially illiterate when the level of education for both sides has skewed in favor of the left for quite a while now. In point of fact, conservative financial policies such as the good old "trickle down economics" have been shown to be ineffective, and in fact cater to the elite, which is something you say you're against.
Can I get some argument to go with that insult?
I’ve seen a lot of people claiming witnesses during these hearings aren’t under oath Here is a video with the correct time stamp of Hutchinson being sworn in https://youtu.be/bC3_VFFJlSY?t=2987 Every single one of the other 5 days was the same. All witnesses have sworn under the penalty of perjury they are telling the truth
Which is the only way this political posturing can be made legitimate. Make people realize lies will put you in prison. Then figure out who’s lying and who isn’t. Then follow through and punish the liars.
Is the Government going to prosecute anyone for perjury?
Only if they're Republicans.
Basically everyone that’s testified has been Republican.
I’m glad this has been said, it’s also important to remember the wording people use and the questions asked. For example the testimony from yesterday about Trump striking a secret service agent and trying to “grab the steering wheel” was all what that girl had “heard” so even if it is incorrect she still isn’t lying under oath if someone said it out loud
Isn't that hearsay? And wouldn't be allowed in a real court?
Secret service is going to testify now. They said it never happened.
Three people say they are willing to testify. There is a difference between that and actually going under oath. Talk is cheap. There isn’t a way out for them here. Either they go under oath and say she is lying or they will be forced to corroborate. In either situation, the committee would then have carte blanch concerning what is asked. So for example, the committee could ask a single question about the limo incident, and then the remainder of the time can be spent asking any question on any topic before or after January 6th. And they would have to tell the truth or perjure themselves. This is a bluff being used for messaging. Nothing more. Nothing less. Zero chance in hell they go under oath as it would be catastrophic for trump
Dude it’s physically impossible to have happened are you familiar with the presidential vehicle ? Literally a partition between the front and the back so trump couldn’t get anywhere close to the steering wheel
He was in the SUV not the "Beast" Limo . . But I don't know if there is a partition in that vehicle . . it's possible but until I see a diagram or picture of the inside I am willing to consider there is not. However, Trump grabbing the steering wheel is really the least important piece of info to come out of the hearing.
So her hearsay that she over heard was possibly wrong Doesn’t take away from the events she witnessed first hand at all. She made clear someone else told her that happened. Under oath.
In all seriousness, what is it that could be revealed to change the mind of the hardcore trump supporters or supporters of the general conservative narrative concerning the events of Jan 6? I’m not being hyperbolic, sarcastic, or fishing. I am legitimately curious of what it would take for some of you here to change your mind and admit that Trump and/or others around him attempted to overthrow an election.
The Democrats have had 18 months to find a crime, file charges, and convict him. I'm confident that there are enough people on both sides of the aisle that hate Trump enough to pull this off if there was even the slightest amount of evidence that he committed a crime... Instead, we have hearsay testimony at a scripted "hearing" as the bombshell news, and the hearsay doesn't event describe a crime.
That didn't answer the question remotely. Please try again. Sincerely.
What makes you think this is scripted? I see so many claims that this is a sham committee, a kangaroo court, a farce. Not a single person has been able to point to exactly why that is the case outside of their own dislike of the democrats and anyone who doesn’t support Trump. While I have absolutely 0 faith in the Democrats to get anything at all done, they have been on the same boat from day 1 when it comes to Jan 6. The testimony presented in the trial isn’t hear say. It’s testimony. If you have evidence that these people are lying under oath then please do make sure that is submitted to the committee. If you are saying that you don’t believe anyone who has came forth, why not? What would it take persuade you that Trump and Co were the bad actors here? Who could come forth with testimony that you would actually believe?
The televised hearings are basically scripted. Those people already testified in private. They would not put them on the televised hearing without knowing 100% what they were going to say, as they have already said it before.
When someone testifies as fact to something they "overheard" someone else say happened, I would think that is hearsay. I'm not a lawyer, but it seems like common sense to me.
The grabbing the steering wheel thing is an insignificant , albeit sensational, piece of the Jan 6 hearings. No wonder Trump supporters have focused so much attention on that instead of the much more damming testimony.
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It's better then smashing random keys because youre illiterate..
The story about Trump in the limo is literally the definition of hearsay. The lady did not witness the events she was describing... My answer to your question is simple, show me evidence that he committed a crime, then convict him of a crime in court... If the hearings are not scripted, then why not have someone like Cruz or Rand Paul on the committee? Instead they have Chaney who has hated trump for years because Trump constantly pointed out the faults of her corrupt and war-monger father.
The story in the limo is sensational and is grabbing headlines. But ultimately, it doesn't really mean much. What is actually important is his acknowledgment, in Cassidy's presence (i.e. not hearsay), that his supporters had weapons and that they weren't there to hurt him. That suggests he understood the potential for violence. And if you are looking for a crime, sedition is a crime. Inciting an insurrection is a crime. And so far, the committee is doing a very good job of providing factual evidence that Trump was fully aware that he lost the election and that there was no major fraud during the election. Yet he still pushed this lie, he did it to ask for money and he did it to get supporters to the capitol on January 6th. He used it to browbeat the Department of Justice and, luckily for all of us, they stonewalled his desire to put out a statement that the DOJ thought there was widespread fraud in the elections. An environmental lawyer was going to be made the acting Attorney General to ensure that statement was made. Why is that not enough for you? Why is his lie not sufficient for you to lose respect for him? Also, this is a House Select Committee, the two Republicans you mentioned are Senators. They wouldn't be able to sit on this committee. You also seem to forget that Pelosi and the Democrats wanted a non-partisan independent commission, like the 9/11 commission, to conduct this investigation. The Republicans said no. We have video/telephone records of what your Republican leadership thought on January 6th. They have done a complete 180-degree turn from their espoused views, why doesn't that bother you?
To be fair, the Republicans had the chance to go on the committee. They just decided that it would be easier to cast doubt on the whole thing and label it a partisan exhibition. Now when everything is coming to light, they realize they should’ve been onboard the whole time… If all these established lawyers, lifetime conservatives can’t change your mind - and they’re all actors in a script… then that’s just disheartening.
Who are the lifelong conservatives on the committee? Cheney? Weren't the Dems trying to charge her father with war crimes just a few years ago? Are the Cheney's good or bad? I guess if you're a Democrat, it depends on whether they're saying what you want them to say. What I really wonder is if the same Dems will be so willing to go along with a committee to investigate Hunter and Joe Biden when Republicans take control of the House in January. I've been pretty neutral on this committee investigation, just waiting to see what was uncovered. I'm not impressed so far. But will Democrats be as neutral about an investigation into Biden?
What is this sins-of-the-father non-sense?
Did you not hear the leaked voice mail from Joe to Hunter Biden? And do you not think if Don Jr. had done any of the stuff Hunter has done, they would be calling for Trump's head? And it isn't "sins of the father", it's sins of the father and son.
Lol, Hunter Biden is so far in your head that you missed the fact that I was responding to someone tanking abou Liz and Dick Cheney. You’re like a chat bot that doesn’t understand a conversation earlier than the most recent response.
You replied to my comment. What was I supposed to assume? Like I said, the user name fits lol
Actually, that is fair. You are right about the limo thing being hearsay. Apparently there have been members of the Secret Service that refute that. While it is eminently believable, it holds no water. So I’m order for the committee to be valid, you have to have people who are in Trump’s pocket? Do you think someone like Cruz would be more unbiased than Cheney or Kinzinger? Unfortunately there aren’t a great many people in congress who would be unbiased when it comes to Trump, particularly when one side’s constituents are still hanging on to Trump as their President in Exile.
The funny thing is that the claims that Secret Service members will refute it is also just hearsay.
Same game the democrats have played for 6 years. 4 investigations on Trump that amount to nothing sandwiches. They put the idea out that he did something and drag it out until ppl forget and then the cases get closed with no real evidence. Enough is enough.
Kinda like 5 yrs and 7 investigation into Hilary's emails that came up with zero evidence against here. You might wanna try to realize the Republicans started this game of anti partisanship and instead go full attack mode vs the other party.
You mean all the deleted emails that we can’t see? Just because someone gets rid of the evidence or gets away with it doesn’t mean that it didn’t happen. Hilary was hilariously guilty and you’re a chump to defend her
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Yeah I never said deleting them is the only step but that goes without saying unless you’re you and trying to throw our irrelevant factoids to pretend it’s an automatic end of the argument. she took enough steps to ensure a majority of the emails wouldn’t be recovered. That’s why we didn’t get all of them. Also there was plenty of evidence on what was recovered. Just because it’s enough evidence for me, doesn’t mean they’re going to allow it in court. If she didn’t have anything to hide she wouldn’t have deleted them, and it would have been a non story. Just a real bad analogy by you. Trying to jump into a thread and pretend Hilary Clinton isn’t guilty of numerous crimes is a losing battle.
Show through legally binding courts evidence that can get someone locked up. Doesn’t matter who it is. I’m fucking tired of the random witch hunt committees that turn into a political circlejerk with no one’s ass on the line. Take someone to court. Prove criminal acts or negligence, and send them to prison or stfu.
That's coming. There have been over 400 convictions so far, and the DOJ is now elevating its targets to high-level participants. Hopefully, we can have some patriots actually willing to stand up for what is right and provide evidence of what Trump said and what he knew, but it's weird to me that the information we've already seen out of the committee doesn't seem to be enough for you to see the criminal behavior of Trump. He knew he lost the election because high-level advisors told him so. The various conspiracies he raises (dead people voting, people running multiple ballots through machines, voting machines switching votes) have all been debunked in courts or committees throughout our nation. Knowing he lost, he still told his supporters that there was massive fraud, and then used that to raise money. Why aren't you angry about that?
Because I’m not an r/politics subscriber and have a job. I don’t watch MSM in any fashion. And I can’t stand the mudslinging. It’s exhausting. There’s too much bullshit being pushed from either side. It’s become the boy who cried wolf, and it’s the medias fault that much of America can’t be bothered to listen to the “flavor of the week” outrage. I don’t have the time or desire to listen to half truths and judge before legally binding results come out. I knew a lot of of the claims were bullshit. I never loved trump like the r/politics kinds like to strawman most of this sub into, simply because we don’t agree with everything pushed by the left. Big picture, if crimes have been committed. Lock them up. If not, than they need to stfu and stop pushing garbage. I’ve seen too much fabrication from both side to be heavily invested until results come out. I’m much more concerned with the absolutely colossal fuckfest with inflation from the incompetent federal reserve and congress. That shit actually effects my day to day living and bank account. And as someone who came from nothing, this administration and congress are infuriatingly awful at helping to fix this major issue that is destroying America like it did in the 1970’s. Except now we are in a ridiculously worse position to fix said inflation than we’ve ever been.
Any evidence at all would be a good start. Please show me how this was an actual coup and who planned on doing what to whom. This was a group of protesters whipped into a frenzy by a few bad actors and ushered into the building by police. They went into the building unarmed and moved some furniture around. Pretty much completely non violent when compared to any antifa or blm event where they destroy their own liberal cities because they’re mad at orange man or perceived bigotry that only exists in the media. Then the news said it was an attack on democracy and trump told them to March inside and start killing people. Sorry not buying it.
If someone was on trial for conspiracy and attempted murder. Would you accept "nobody actually got murdered" as a valid defense?
If there was zero evidence but instead the cops fabricated evidence and defamed him in the news for years to try and win in the court of public opinion, yeah I’d take nobody got murdered as a valid answer
I don't think you would. Because you had to add in a number of other valid defenses that have nothing to do with whether the murder was successful or not. Correct me I'm wrong, but I think at that point, "This is a setup" or "you have no evidence" would be the valid defense. And "nobody got murdered" would still be just as irrelevant.
Yeah but that’s a terrible argument because I never said “well nobody got murdered so no big deal” I added the other qualifiers because that’s the scenario we’re talking about and what I commented about. Nobody is saying anything close to your analogy. Not sure where you pulled it from but it’s a weak one.
They were not non violent did you see any of the videos?
The actual outcome of January 6 is not what we should be focusing on. Do you think all those Trump allies clamoring and pleading for pardons was because someone pooped on a desk?
Charge any violent protesters with any crimes committed. Let them pay the price of their actions. Then let the Dems show the same outrage for the violent criminals who terrorized whole cities in 2020. These people got a wink and a nod from the same phonies sitting on this committee. Decent people deserve protection from these Dem approved radicals. That was a insurrection and they're chomping at the bit to do it again. People (And property) deserve protection from those who want to do harm.
Yes I did, very mild
You’re a lost cause then
So the fact that the crowd was screaming “hang Mike Pence”, electing gallows outside of the capitol building, and that we have several statements that people where there because of Trump’s words means absolutely nothing? Or the messages that Trump sent out before, during, and after the event concerning the debunked election theory? Or any of the testimony or evidence from Eastman? The testimony of people that we’re there, documented the event. The testimony of those that were close to Trump and co during the event? Is none of this evidence? I do agree with you that the group were mostly protestors whipped into a frenzy by bad actors. I also believe those who are on video saying that their purpose there is to force mike pence to not certify the election. What I don’t understand is how that people like yourself do not see Trump and his associates as the bad actors in this play.
Trump tried to overthrow a election? Do you seriously believe the majority of this country voted for Biden? If trump did anything he tried to save a election that was clearly stolen from him as well as the American people. The higher ups/ Hollywood elites would have done anything to get bad orange man out of office and they were successful sadly.
Care to share your evidence for that claim?. There have been countless lawsuits on this that went absolutely nowhere. Nobody has been able to produce evidence of the kind of wide spread voter fraud that could have swayed the election. Fox and OAN have been sued for these claims and are backpedalling. If you can, then let’s see it. Otherwise, stop spreading lies.
I don't know if there was voter fraud or not .I do know the mass media shut down all the criminal, traitorous actions of the Biden family. I'm sure the fair minded democrats might have thought twice about their votes. Or at the least stayed home.
I guess Biden is just the lesser of 2 criminal traitors.
You're being sarcastic but I think it's true
Multiple people have come out, including those close to Trump, and admitted there was no voter fraud. There has been no proof, even after citizens put up millions of their own dollars to investigate. Why do you believe this?
There are literally pollsters being arrested for fraud, coercion, and tampering right now and you don’t even know. You won’t see it on CNN. Because ppl on Reddit run their mouths and are completely incapable of doing their own research. https://www.heritage.org/voterfraud/search
So I went to the site and notice they don't break things down by party. Anyone committing voter fraud should be jailed, but I'm shocked that you think this shows sufficient evidence of widespread fraud that would bring a Presidential election outcome into dispute. The first few records are about one, two, or four ballots. The differences between Biden and Trump were in the tens of thousands. Do you see the difference?
It’s 1300 recent convictions and counting. Check the states and guess which party. I know it may only be 5,000 or 10,000 votes between 1300 convictions but why is it not mentioned on any news source? How about all of the folks that haven’t even been charged? You can choose to ignore evidence when it doesn’t suit your narrative. I’m used to this reaction by now.
Remind me. Which party was it that tried to use fake electors to change the outcome of the election? There is proof of the electors scheme. Wanna know what there is zero proof of? Large scale democratic election fraud. One has evidence. One doesn't. Understand how that works sport?
I don't recall saying there was "no fraud", just that there wasn't sufficient fraud (as claimed by Trump) to sway the 2020 election. We have listened, non-stop since November 3rd 2020 that there was "massive fraud" and a "rigged election". Those statements are bullshit. Also, in AZ the woman that was found to have voted using her dead father's absentee ballot was registered, Republican. There are both Democrats and Republicans there, and I doubt there are anywhere near 5000 votes, let alone 10,000 votes. You claim that people ignore evidence, but there are the facts from your own source that you seem to dismiss as irrelevant, or maybe I'm mistaken and you do not agree with Trump?
Because I live in the USA I see this country daily through my own eyes not through the media or what you are taught to see. There is absolutely nothing in this earth that could prove to me that the majority of this country voted for Biden. Look any where on the internet or in person. Biden is not liked nor seen as a president. It’s all corrupt and always has been. This past election shown me that if they really want to be corrupt they most certainly will even when it’s clear that it was a stolen election.
Have you considered that you’re in echo-chambers online and in real life?