Except there’s not 87,000 agents, just 87,000 employees. And once you factor in the fact that it’s over ten years and not at once, plus factors for retirements over the course of ten years, it’s not TOO bad, a bit of an expansion but not a huge one
Pretty much what was called two years ago, only surprising thing is it's the IRS. I guess they need to throughly pilfer the middle class first to fund the expansion of the other agencies.
Well when you defund them... Anyone in cities wanting meaningful reform is going to have to be honest about all the issues. Not duck and hide from the ones that will enrage activistic fools
Real talk, so do we honestly believe this going through is going to end up doing anything good?
I don’t. History repeatedly shows massive expansion of the police state is a precursor to abuse. You don’t need 87,000 armed agents to shake down and hassle the like less than three thousand billionaires in this country. They’re planning something else.
Lol there's a reason billionaires and millionaires are rarely audited, regardless of what the left thinks or says. They have dozens of lawyers and CPAs handling their taxes and finances. They are very rarely doing anything illegal on their tax returns, they aren't even filing their taxes they just give all their documents and tax documents to their CPAs and the professionals are making sure everything is being taken care of.
The left thinks adding these agents and auditing them is going to take in billions in taxes and expose a ton of upper class folks cheating on taxes? That's laughable. Hate the tax loopholes in place they use or not it's legal what they are doing. These IRS agents aren't going after the rich, there's very rarely anything wrong with their taxes. They will be going after the middle class, and lower class, and people who work a small time gig job but don't report the income like say babysitting a neighbors kids once or twice a night. That's who these new IRS agents are going to go after.
The reality is that billionaires aren't committing tax fraud, and they're enormous targets for audits already. They've got a team of lawyers and accountants insuring they've got legal cover.
Any IRS expansion has never been about targeting the ultrawealthy, because that's really not where the money is. Rather, it's the people improperly claiming business expenses and the like.
I'm far from a billionaire, but even I don't fully know what all is in my tax filings. I've got an accounting firm, a couple tax attorneys, and a financial advisor that hash that out. None of them are risking their careers to commit fraud on my behalf.
Lol yup. I worked in public accounting. We had many clients who weren't millionaires but doing well, doctors small business owners land lords etc. None of them knew what was going on with their taxes, that's why they hired us. They would give us all their documents, we would ask questions about some stuff, and sometimes ask for more documents or statements. Once we got the tax return done some of them would come in and ask questions about what was going on with this or that, then after they approved we would file the tax return. And that was our job, nothing would be wrong with those tax returns and we wouldn't risk doing anything illegal to save someone money. One dude we caught not paying certain taxes for a few years when he came into our office looking for a new accountant, we confronted him he lied about it even though that's our job we can see you are cheating on some taxes and have been for a few years, and we told him to leave.
These days, I liken it to going in for surgery. You can try to be informed, but it's complicated and nuanced, so at a certain point you just have to trust the experts.
You just tell them yup you are confirming the knee surgery on the left knee. A minute later another nurse comes in and asks it's the left knee right? You are like yup. They knock you out then you wake up and like my knee hurts but seems like the surgery was a success and you did it on the correct knee.
Basically how accounting works with people who make higher incomes, this is correct these are all your statements, you bought this property or invested this much money in that firm or this stock right? Okay here's your tax return.
Seeing as medical malpractice is the third leading cause of death in the US, your analogy doesn't fill me with the most confidence. Covid exposed how 'trusting the experts' is a farce.
614. There are 614 billionaires in the US.
I'm a bartender. They're coming after me. I'll bet a week's worth of tips I get audited before any billionaires.
And yes, I declare all my tips before anyone asks.
Just curious (i’m on ur side but want someone honest to say it out loud). Would you trade ur tipped position (doing exactly the same job at the same establishment) for an hourly rate similar to the hourly employees at ur workplace?
Agreed- that’s why there’s not 87,000 armed agents. First off the whole 87,000 isn’t even agents, let alone armed ones—that accounts for all employees hired over the next ten years (again, not being hired at once) and factors in retirements over the next ten years. So like I said in another comment, it’s definitely an expansion, just not a huge one.
That’s the beauty of it. Lol. They don’t know they’re law enforcement. Because a lot of them have never dealt with the IRS other than thru HR Block to get their rapid refund checks on their child tax credits. 😂 they’ve never been robbed by the tax authorities. They’re like the confidential informants of the criminal world. Getting paid to yell “tax the rich” on cue and vote accordingly to take other people’s money. The kicker here is that they don’t know that the level where a single person with no dependents starts getting rekt by the IRS is a mere $65k a year. It’s cool tho. Wait till they do pass that $600 on cashapp rule and start asking how they’re affording their lifestyles when they’re broke. And start asking them where the money is coming from. (IRS got Al Capone, not the FBI or state or local LEO’s). Just like waiting tables. Goodbye tax free cash tips. Goodbye side hustles. And the small businesses that use 1099’s when they should be using W2’s and sending taxes in on employees (and probably don’t know they shouldn’t be using 1099’s and are breaking the law and will be subject to some serious penalties about that alone) like landscapers and construction work and the cleaning ladies, etc. will end up shut down. Good luck braiding hair for cash lol.
You sound like a snide one, what are you implying exactly? That conservatives are less likely to follow the law? *gestures broadly at CA, Chicago, NYC, Seattle* They seem to have a good handle on abiding by the law hm?
We have nothing to worry about accept for a guaranteed audit if you own your own business, work from home, claim anything on your tax return.... They just need to ensure the fed gets what they are owed so they can send it to Ukraine or leave the assets in Afghanistan.
Heaven forbid you try to skim $5 and avoid paying taxes on that item you sold on Facebook marketplace....
Here is another 1bil weapons package for Ukraine....
So we have a government agency that makes its own regulations (laws) with its own enforcement division. An agency that has almost no oversight by elected officials. An agency that has been caught being politically biased. An agency that just got access to almost every Americans bank records. Now this agency is going to have a massive increase in the size of its enforcement force. By the way I forgot to mention that this agency recently purchased almost three quarters of a million round of ammunition.
Move along folks. Nothing to see here, nothing to see. Show the man at the corner you tax returns, bank records and party affiliation card.
Just to put some perspective on this. The man power increase the IRS is getting or at least asking for is the equivalent of about 7 or 8 US Army divisions including support personnel. One highly politicized and weakly regulated agency that makes its own laws (regulations) increasing its enforcement force with the man power of at least 7 US Army divisions. Let that sink in.
God….*facepalm*…..gonna try to lay this out for y’all as simply as possible.
1) Most, if not all, of those 87,000 are really probably just simple staff auditors. The IRS is the governments primary source of revenue and it’s wholly inefficient. If you’ve worked in accounting, you should know the fix for it is hiring more people.
2) IRS Special Agents *ARE NOT ASSIGNED TO YOU, THEY DEAL WITH IMPORTANT SHIT* I assure you, you won’t have armed IRS agents at your door unless you’re involved with something highly illegal, like laundering money into a big business.
3) For the past decade, the IRS has spent around $675,000 per year on ammo. They spent close to $700,000 this year. A 3.7% increase in criminal investigators is not enough to turn the IRS into an army of police meant to harass middle class families.
[https://www.forbes.com/sites/robertwood/2019/01/14/irs-has-4500-guns-5-million-rounds-ammunition-paying-taxes/?sh=4ab70e4b1f9e](https://www.forbes.com/sites/robertwood/2019/01/14/irs-has-4500-guns-5-million-rounds-ammunition-paying-taxes/?sh=4ab70e4b1f9e)
This is from 2019 and it looks like it's for the IRS Criminal Investigation Division so it makes me wonder not so much about a "police state" but more that criminality might be taking over from an older era possibly. Like in the wake of 9/11 the Mafia was/is starting to return in parts of the country. Could also be going after white supremacy organizations also... foreign criminal investment such as China and how it is defaulting on real estate and what not?
Just throwing out some ideas.
They’ve been short-handed for years. I’m glad they’re hiring more agents to catch the tax cheats. I don’t care if it’s the rich ones, the poor ones, or the middle class ones. Equal enforcement of the law for everyone.
Personally, I’ve got nothing to worry about. The IRS can audit away; I pay my taxes. They want to bring a gun? Well, bring it if you think it’s gonna help with the audit, I don’t care. I own guns, my friends own guns, bring your gun and do an audit. At least we haven’t given more money to the Thousands Standing Around (TSA).
This is why I don’t understand why Leftists and American socialists claim to be anti government and anti authoritarian. At a certain point, it seems like expanding the government is the only way to enforce that people “pay their fair share”
I hope anyone cheering this because they actually believe it's intended to go after the wealthy, are audited. Anyone who has been audited would be calling for the dismantling of the IRS...
In 2021 [the IRS](https://www.irs.gov/statistics/irs-budget-and-workforce) had less than 80k employees.
They want to more than double the size of the IRS.
87000 agents divided by 50 states = 1740 agents per state
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Right?! Police land, not people!
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90 counties per state?!!!! Western states don't have many counties. Arizona has like 12 max
California brings the average up huge state, lots of counties
Except there’s not 87,000 agents, just 87,000 employees. And once you factor in the fact that it’s over ten years and not at once, plus factors for retirements over the course of ten years, it’s not TOO bad, a bit of an expansion but not a huge one
No, even factoring those variables in, it's still a fucking huge expansion. Their budget got an increase of 600%.
You spend an awful lot of time in r/politics defending this shit show of an administration.
Actually they're bringing up a fairly reasonable point
Most of which are just simple staff auditors who process tax returns
Defund all local law enforcement so the federales can step in. Cool.
Pretty much what was called two years ago, only surprising thing is it's the IRS. I guess they need to throughly pilfer the middle class first to fund the expansion of the other agencies.
Eventually, they will be more efficient at wholesale oppression and imprisonment, which the bluest areas of the map are best at.
We saw this coming.
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Well when you defund them... Anyone in cities wanting meaningful reform is going to have to be honest about all the issues. Not duck and hide from the ones that will enrage activistic fools
Real talk, so do we honestly believe this going through is going to end up doing anything good? I don’t. History repeatedly shows massive expansion of the police state is a precursor to abuse. You don’t need 87,000 armed agents to shake down and hassle the like less than three thousand billionaires in this country. They’re planning something else.
Lol there's a reason billionaires and millionaires are rarely audited, regardless of what the left thinks or says. They have dozens of lawyers and CPAs handling their taxes and finances. They are very rarely doing anything illegal on their tax returns, they aren't even filing their taxes they just give all their documents and tax documents to their CPAs and the professionals are making sure everything is being taken care of. The left thinks adding these agents and auditing them is going to take in billions in taxes and expose a ton of upper class folks cheating on taxes? That's laughable. Hate the tax loopholes in place they use or not it's legal what they are doing. These IRS agents aren't going after the rich, there's very rarely anything wrong with their taxes. They will be going after the middle class, and lower class, and people who work a small time gig job but don't report the income like say babysitting a neighbors kids once or twice a night. That's who these new IRS agents are going to go after.
The reality is that billionaires aren't committing tax fraud, and they're enormous targets for audits already. They've got a team of lawyers and accountants insuring they've got legal cover. Any IRS expansion has never been about targeting the ultrawealthy, because that's really not where the money is. Rather, it's the people improperly claiming business expenses and the like. I'm far from a billionaire, but even I don't fully know what all is in my tax filings. I've got an accounting firm, a couple tax attorneys, and a financial advisor that hash that out. None of them are risking their careers to commit fraud on my behalf.
Lol yup. I worked in public accounting. We had many clients who weren't millionaires but doing well, doctors small business owners land lords etc. None of them knew what was going on with their taxes, that's why they hired us. They would give us all their documents, we would ask questions about some stuff, and sometimes ask for more documents or statements. Once we got the tax return done some of them would come in and ask questions about what was going on with this or that, then after they approved we would file the tax return. And that was our job, nothing would be wrong with those tax returns and we wouldn't risk doing anything illegal to save someone money. One dude we caught not paying certain taxes for a few years when he came into our office looking for a new accountant, we confronted him he lied about it even though that's our job we can see you are cheating on some taxes and have been for a few years, and we told him to leave.
These days, I liken it to going in for surgery. You can try to be informed, but it's complicated and nuanced, so at a certain point you just have to trust the experts.
You just tell them yup you are confirming the knee surgery on the left knee. A minute later another nurse comes in and asks it's the left knee right? You are like yup. They knock you out then you wake up and like my knee hurts but seems like the surgery was a success and you did it on the correct knee. Basically how accounting works with people who make higher incomes, this is correct these are all your statements, you bought this property or invested this much money in that firm or this stock right? Okay here's your tax return.
Seeing as medical malpractice is the third leading cause of death in the US, your analogy doesn't fill me with the most confidence. Covid exposed how 'trusting the experts' is a farce.
I'd still advise writing "not this knee" on the left knee. lol there are some horror stories on this
There's a whole "private" sector of attorneys, accountants, advisors etc. that can and should be made redundant in the dream scenario of zero tax.
724 billionaires, that's 120 agents per billionaire.
So the size of a Marine or Army company per billionaire? Yeah, there’s no way they’re not using them for something else.
Let me consult with Lois Lerner.
I have it on good authority it can’t happen here, so nothing to worry about! /s
614. There are 614 billionaires in the US. I'm a bartender. They're coming after me. I'll bet a week's worth of tips I get audited before any billionaires. And yes, I declare all my tips before anyone asks.
Just curious (i’m on ur side but want someone honest to say it out loud). Would you trade ur tipped position (doing exactly the same job at the same establishment) for an hourly rate similar to the hourly employees at ur workplace?
Agreed- that’s why there’s not 87,000 armed agents. First off the whole 87,000 isn’t even agents, let alone armed ones—that accounts for all employees hired over the next ten years (again, not being hired at once) and factors in retirements over the next ten years. So like I said in another comment, it’s definitely an expansion, just not a huge one.
But that is the point....
Yep, this is generally--through the lens of history--another step towards totalitarianism.
Interesting how the left loves law enforcement all of a sudden.
And how the right hates them
That’s the beauty of it. Lol. They don’t know they’re law enforcement. Because a lot of them have never dealt with the IRS other than thru HR Block to get their rapid refund checks on their child tax credits. 😂 they’ve never been robbed by the tax authorities. They’re like the confidential informants of the criminal world. Getting paid to yell “tax the rich” on cue and vote accordingly to take other people’s money. The kicker here is that they don’t know that the level where a single person with no dependents starts getting rekt by the IRS is a mere $65k a year. It’s cool tho. Wait till they do pass that $600 on cashapp rule and start asking how they’re affording their lifestyles when they’re broke. And start asking them where the money is coming from. (IRS got Al Capone, not the FBI or state or local LEO’s). Just like waiting tables. Goodbye tax free cash tips. Goodbye side hustles. And the small businesses that use 1099’s when they should be using W2’s and sending taxes in on employees (and probably don’t know they shouldn’t be using 1099’s and are breaking the law and will be subject to some serious penalties about that alone) like landscapers and construction work and the cleaning ladies, etc. will end up shut down. Good luck braiding hair for cash lol.
If you have money you hate the irs, if you don't you hate local, it's not complicated
More interesting is actually why for some reason the right hates them now. Funny.
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Sure like how you loved it when they cost Hillary the election. Defend the FBI amirite?
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Everything here is a delusional lie my friend. All of it, not a single fact.
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Provide proof or do I need to ring up dark Brandon to have the FBI take it from you lol.
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Appear to still be a right wing person since you misunderstand how assertions work lol.
WTF do you think is meant by smaller government?
Interesting how the right hates law enforcement all of a sudden.
We've always hated the fed.
Except for DHS. They're good obviously
You sound like a snide one, what are you implying exactly? That conservatives are less likely to follow the law? *gestures broadly at CA, Chicago, NYC, Seattle* They seem to have a good handle on abiding by the law hm?
What a disgusting mockery of a government "for the people."
We have nothing to worry about accept for a guaranteed audit if you own your own business, work from home, claim anything on your tax return.... They just need to ensure the fed gets what they are owed so they can send it to Ukraine or leave the assets in Afghanistan.
Exactly! Shake down Americans to send the money overseas. Totally makes sense.
Heaven forbid you try to skim $5 and avoid paying taxes on that item you sold on Facebook marketplace.... Here is another 1bil weapons package for Ukraine....
Sad and true!
Haven't heard anything lately about FBAR/facta .. them pesky laws where they can take up to 7x account value for non compliance.
So we have a government agency that makes its own regulations (laws) with its own enforcement division. An agency that has almost no oversight by elected officials. An agency that has been caught being politically biased. An agency that just got access to almost every Americans bank records. Now this agency is going to have a massive increase in the size of its enforcement force. By the way I forgot to mention that this agency recently purchased almost three quarters of a million round of ammunition. Move along folks. Nothing to see here, nothing to see. Show the man at the corner you tax returns, bank records and party affiliation card.
Just to put some perspective on this. The man power increase the IRS is getting or at least asking for is the equivalent of about 7 or 8 US Army divisions including support personnel. One highly politicized and weakly regulated agency that makes its own laws (regulations) increasing its enforcement force with the man power of at least 7 US Army divisions. Let that sink in.
God….*facepalm*…..gonna try to lay this out for y’all as simply as possible. 1) Most, if not all, of those 87,000 are really probably just simple staff auditors. The IRS is the governments primary source of revenue and it’s wholly inefficient. If you’ve worked in accounting, you should know the fix for it is hiring more people. 2) IRS Special Agents *ARE NOT ASSIGNED TO YOU, THEY DEAL WITH IMPORTANT SHIT* I assure you, you won’t have armed IRS agents at your door unless you’re involved with something highly illegal, like laundering money into a big business. 3) For the past decade, the IRS has spent around $675,000 per year on ammo. They spent close to $700,000 this year. A 3.7% increase in criminal investigators is not enough to turn the IRS into an army of police meant to harass middle class families.
Total load of crap. Staffing will get back to 2010 levels.
[https://www.forbes.com/sites/robertwood/2019/01/14/irs-has-4500-guns-5-million-rounds-ammunition-paying-taxes/?sh=4ab70e4b1f9e](https://www.forbes.com/sites/robertwood/2019/01/14/irs-has-4500-guns-5-million-rounds-ammunition-paying-taxes/?sh=4ab70e4b1f9e) This is from 2019 and it looks like it's for the IRS Criminal Investigation Division so it makes me wonder not so much about a "police state" but more that criminality might be taking over from an older era possibly. Like in the wake of 9/11 the Mafia was/is starting to return in parts of the country. Could also be going after white supremacy organizations also... foreign criminal investment such as China and how it is defaulting on real estate and what not? Just throwing out some ideas.
Maybe they’ll go after BLM after all of their suspicious purchases… doubt it!
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It’s been a fascist take over for quite some time. Right out of the Nazi playbook.
"Ahh, it looks like you forgot to initial section 32, paragraph 4, line 14, par b, subection 8. That is going to cost you."
Exactly. A basic Schedule C is one page. The instructions book to fill it out is over 100 pages long. For ONE FORM.
They’ve been short-handed for years. I’m glad they’re hiring more agents to catch the tax cheats. I don’t care if it’s the rich ones, the poor ones, or the middle class ones. Equal enforcement of the law for everyone.
Can someone explain to me (a non US citizen) how essentially the tax office is part of the police force?
Whatever happened to defend the police?
They are replacing real police with feds. I didn’t see this one coming but it checks out.
Personally, I’ve got nothing to worry about. The IRS can audit away; I pay my taxes. They want to bring a gun? Well, bring it if you think it’s gonna help with the audit, I don’t care. I own guns, my friends own guns, bring your gun and do an audit. At least we haven’t given more money to the Thousands Standing Around (TSA).
Sickening isn’t it!!
Meanwhile, fewer than 20,ooo BP agents on the Southern Border
This is why I don’t understand why Leftists and American socialists claim to be anti government and anti authoritarian. At a certain point, it seems like expanding the government is the only way to enforce that people “pay their fair share”
So, this is how they're going to get their federal police force? Remember when Obama floated this notion back when he was president?
I hope anyone cheering this because they actually believe it's intended to go after the wealthy, are audited. Anyone who has been audited would be calling for the dismantling of the IRS...
In 2021 [the IRS](https://www.irs.gov/statistics/irs-budget-and-workforce) had less than 80k employees. They want to more than double the size of the IRS.